states have been ceding from the union for the last 17 years . California was the first to do so . mainstream media is not allowed to report on this ( national security reasons ) but there are many independent report on this online . just google ----------> " american secession movement " this is no joke .
Check out my video. If you don't believe in secession, then you believe in slavery, for you are for enslaving people to a government that they want no part of:
Not necessarily a higher being, his argument correctly points out that nature is where all of our rights come from which is indisputable. It is no other mans place to try and control another man, limit his movement what he can consume, what flag he can wave, or any other dictate unless the man it is imposed upon agrees upon it in a condition other than Duress. This is why I don't understand why more atheists don't rally for secession, r
@Luigi84289 Real freedom and liberty. These same men who rail on about how mice and other animals will fight tooth and nail to achieve a state of freedom enslave themselves to other men's wills and desires.
Rights are indeed inalienable and natural. States always have a right of secession in cases of obscene injustice, denial of liberty, etc.
The Confederate States of America (and pre-1865 Union) were both illegitimate states precisely because of this; they enshrined slavery and the denial of the liberty of all black men in their constitution and founding documents.
Any state is basically an enemy of liberty - that is the nature of government. I agree that slavery was wrong - in both the USA and CSA. Too bad that Jefferson's principle of 'That government is best which governs least' has not been the basis of self-government in America. Rather, we have had increasing centralisation and loss of liberties, ever higher taxes and more and more government intervention at home and around the entire planet.
Yup the "Civil War" because of the Union victory has resulted in more slavery than the antibellum slavery. We can't do anything without running it by big brother first. Gotta get that license, permit, passport etc. The government has to know our every move and what we are doing at all times. Can't even take some things voluntarily into our own bodies without being thrown in jail. People don't put things into perspective until they look at how much "protection" the government has over us.
@beingforitse1f Remember all of your knowledge of the CSA is coming from the north. The victors write history. Look at where your history books are published. None of us learn what was going on behind the scenes before the war was thrust upon us. We either had to become a slave region (as we are now) to the rest of the states who were leading a cultural majority in Congress or we could choose freedom/self governance. We chose the latter. RR's are anti-south
@beingforitse1f Slavery was an American problem that had to be phased out and could not be instantaneously abolished if the well being of everyone living in America was to be maintained. It is a very weak justification as it does not take into account the condition of the region and people's natural right to be free. There was and is nothing wrong with the Southern people as even Yankees today that come down here will attest. We're all in slavery now and quite helpless. Read slave narratives.
@Luigi84289 slavery has nothing to do with the liberty of the states . its an idea that was forced upon the Republics these once free states . the idea of freedom does not die .
@beingforitse1f Slavery would have been done away with over time and was not the foundation of the Southern economy. Physical labor was. My dad worked on a plantation in the 60's. Anyone can do the work.
YES or NO: Do you believe that the SC government, which made the decision to secede, was illegitimate because it disenfranchised blacks, who were over 60% of the SC population in 1861?
I don't want to hear about the North or England. I am talking about SC, which you describe as YOUR state.
The OBVIOUS answer is that the SC government was illegitimate. Wouldn't you agree with that?
SC at that time obviously did not follow the Natural Law in regards to Black people. I will grant you that if it is what you are looking for. To me all government is awful, so it's not much of a concession. I can only point out that it was 150 years ago and that at that time almost no nation on earth gave Blacks their due natural rights. So if we are to say that SC was illigitimate then we must say that nearly all gov'ts then were illegitimate. As far as the recognised citizentry...
... (continued) the right of secession was properly and legally excersied.
I will also say that even in contempory times if we judge the US by Natural Law it is illegitimate. It enslaves people (conscription during Vietnam), it wages aggressive wars (murder) and it steals our wealth (taxation and inflation). It clearly has no regard for the Constitution in what it does. So, no government truly follows Natural Law - which is why I am in general anti-gov't and want as small of one as possible.
"Strictly speaking under our system the States are sovereign and can not be split up BUT by their own GOVERNMENT."
I get the point: under your "system" people would not have the right to secede from the state. Although the people have the natural right to create their own state, those rights could negated by the sovereign STATE GOVERNMENT.
You misunderstand me. I mean to say that under the original US system you can not secede from a State without that State approving it. I am however arguing that in my own personal opinion you have the natural right to break away from any tyrannical government. I'm not trying to play with words - rather, to make a distinction between the original concept of the US and States rights and what I personally believe (which is more libertarian than what the Founders believed). Hope you understand now.
I can understand your objection. Strictly speaking under our system the States are sovereign and can not be split up but by their own government. However, if you ask me personally, I would say that if one part of SC didnt didn't want to be part of our freed republic (say for example one of our counties) I would be fine with letting them go their own way. I would certainly not be for invading them. It's more difficult if it were just a few scattered people amongst the general population.
Virginia did not "give up her western lands..." WVA seceded from VA because the folks in WVA didn't want to join the Confederacy.
I go back to my question: what happens if, say, 60% of SC wants to secede, and 40% don't. Will the 40% be able to secede from SC or to stay in the US?
Will the SC military be used to put down the 40% who disagree?
Will there be ethnic cleansing to remove the 40% who don't agree.
I am curious to hear the answers to these questions.
I was referring to the time just after the forming of the US when VA gave up her western lands. The case of WV was one of ultimate hypocrisy. The North claimed not to believe in secession but supported the secession of WV.
If 60% of SC wanted to secede we would do so. The folks who didn't want to secede could live in peace under a free SC. And of course there would be no ethnic cleansing. We are not tyrannical people. We believe in less government - not more.
The US is a creation of the States - not the other way around. So if a State seceded the people living in that State would go with their State. If they wished to live under the US they would need to move to a State still in the so-called 'union' (which is truthfully no longer a union because it's not voluntary). In our system as the Founders devised it, the people in their communities - the States - are sovereign while the Feds are the agent of the States. That's the Jeffersonian view.
There is talk here of whether the secession of 1861 was "legitimate."
Of course it was not. During that time, the slave population was denied its natural rights to participate in government and the secession decision.
In 1861, SC was majority black. SC's decision to secede was illegitimate because the majority of its people were denied the right to weigh in on this decision.
Indeed, every state government of every southern state was illegitimate, since slaves were denied participation in them
I'm certainly not here to defend slavery. Blacks were disenfranchised in the North as well. They were disenfranchised in nearly all countries of the world. Even after they were 'freed', Northern States refused to let them settle in certain areas or hold office, etc. So no one is defending slavery. Secession from the UK in 1776 was done without Black enfranchisement either, remember.
RSA, my point was not that you are defending slavery.
In 1860, SC had 291,300 and 412,320 disenfranchised blacks. I think we'd both agree that the SC government was illegitimate due to its denial of natural rights for so many of its residents... correct?
This is just a guess but... I think the history concerning secession and the Civil War would be very different if the blacks had the vote. Just a guess.
If you took that view then you'd have to say the US was illegitimate as well - even the secession from England. But then England had slaves then too. So you see, we can make value judgements about the morality of the systems but if you say that slavery made the system illegitimate then you'd have to say that almost all systems then were illegitimate.
I am personally skeptical of gov't in general & believe that less gov't is always better because gov't itself is simply a monopoly of force.
State lines are arbitrary accidents of history. The British could have created 1300 states instead of 13.
The vast majority of Americans see beyond these artificial lines. They understand, if only subconsciously, that they are citizens not of an arbitrarily created state, but a consciously created nation.
It is sad you see yourself as a native of that which happens to be within the colonially created area of SC. Fortunately, most American see beyond that, and embrace the fullness of America.
That is only partially true. These lines were changed a lot during colonial days and afterwards. Maine broke off from Mass, for example. NC broke off from SC. Virginia gave up her western lands to create new communities. In my State people are very proud to be South Carolinians. I am not a member of some giant empire of 300 million people. I am a South Carolinian. That is my country. The US is the power that occupies us. I'm ready for the Feds to be gone and never return. And I'm not alone.
In the Declar. of Indep., there is not only a statement of natural rights. Under its many "whereas" statements, it identifies the reasons why the colonies sought a separate country. The Founders recognized that leaving Great Britain was not to be done on an arbitrary basis or for trivial reasons.
This analysis makes it seem like secession could occur for an arbitrary reason... e.g., a person of a certain ethnicity getting elected. Is this something we should be reasonably promoting?
[1] Question: how many people does it take to decide to secede?
What if, for example, 60% of the people of a state want to secede... does that mean that the remaining 40% can then secede from this new state, and then rejoin the union? Or would force be used to keep the 40% minority under the rule and control of the 60% minority?
if it comes to full out war to thing that us real americans ( everybody both the conspiritors) wont use real force like our air arm. all you southerners got are rifles. i wish you good luck after your death becuase thats whats gonna happen if you men keep on being disillusionized about right and wrong. next thing your going to do is put slavery back in order.
You have us totally wrong. No one is supporting slavery or violence. Did you even listen? In fact, we want the opposite of what you claim we want. We want freedom, peace and prosperity.
redshirt. even if you dont support slavery, do you think america will do nothing if you take 13 states away? all youll be causing is death and violence and for what, another loss. you have freedom, peace and depending how smart you are, prospeirity
We are America too. America is many cultures and people - not the government. I don't know how they will react to be honest. I hope as decent, non-violent people. I disagree with you that I have freedom and peace. There is less freedom (esp economic) every day. Compared to our ancestors, we have very little freedom. And the US is always at war. The US kills people in foreign lands every day. I am strongly opposed to this. I want more freedom and an end to the imperialism.
we kill to liberate countrys. god damn it if you dont like leaving in this country get the hell out! the onlky reason you stay is that you know that america is better then anywere else. sure, our freedom is much less then it wass 200 years ago, or even 100 years ago, but thats becuase people were running around killing eachother and that was a everyday thing. you hear some1 died and you shrug it of! our freedom leasened cuase of the idiots who abused it. we still have tons of freedom.
That woud be funny if it wasn't so sad. The Feds blow up entire villages in Afghanistan, killing women and children and you claim that is to 'liberate' them?
You tell me to leave 'this country'? My country is South Carolina - not your Empire. SC DID leave and people like you invaded us, raped women, burned towns, shot thousands of our people and put us under military rule. The US conquered us just like they conquered Afghanistan. Very tragic how imperialist the US is today.
The thing is, you assume that the mere act of balkanization will lead to freedom, peace and prosperity. This is insane.
Who's to say that these new states wouldn't be even MORE repressive? There's NO guarantee one way or the other.
Regardless of its legality, secession will never happen. Once people sit down and really think of the economic and political consequences, and the risk of a even more dangerous regime than we have now, even today's secessionists will sing a different tune.
Not all yankee's are bad people most are just misinformed. I know a few yankee's that fly the Confederate flag and would fight right along side of us.
gagirlie, you have those shackles on becuase you went over your head and bought stuff you were not able to afford. hll all of you are like this and onlu want to sucede to iliminate your debt. thats it isnt it. thats what most of you want. if you secede america will be like europe, fighting our neighbors for power
Starcraft, there will only be violence if people like you try to stop us from being free and independent. We want peaceful separation from your evil Empire that tortures people, invades countless countries and oppresses us with outragesous taxes and regulations. We want nothing to do with the Federal monster and its rag of occuation. You can keep it. And we certainly don't want more bloodshed. Peace, prosperity and indepedence from the Feds.
we can all rally to the idea of secession, and the lawyers can make it legal. But what its all going to boil down to is do we have the man power, and the force of arms to beat the federal government i.e. the largest military on the planet or not...
IF Texas secedes I will pick up my rifle and fight all foes that come against her. But do I think a civilian gaurd can beat the Socialist army out of D.C.? no.
that's exactly right, the south was hoping the north would respect their god given right and leave them alone. Unfortunately they were wrong. The north didn't care about god just about invading southerners for money. If enough states secede thought the fed won't have any choice, the men who make up the army aren't going to kill their families, the more states secede the smaller the army becomes. American structure people->state->feds
the 13 colonies seceded from England, and the Confederacy seceded from the Union, and Texas seceded from Mexico. the one thing they all had in common was when you talk of secession there is always a fight afterwards.
concept of leaving is like trying to legislate breathing. Oh yeah you can no longer breath in the united states anymore that's now against the law. lol Because that's all secession boils down to, it's just leaving. I think if we promoted it in this way it would really help us get the point across to other people.
Yeah, we will just see what happens this summer. Last summer's ridiculous fuel prices kind of kicked all these troubles into motion. It has greatly increased support and even just the average family's thought on secession, especially here in Dixie. People will only take losing so much, their 401K is one thing, but general freedoms...The FEDs may be in for a suprise and sooner than we think.
case was made in 1868. So is the union indissolvable as stated in the case? Grant Recognized those states as not apart of it until he readmitted them 2 years later. Also the supreme court justices could only be appointed from states still in the union and not undergoing reconstruction. Which was the northern states. Can one part of the union really speak for all? If new england wants to make it illegal for them that's cool, but southerners have always obeyed what the forefathers said.
When one examines the facts regarding the United States Constitution, Supreme Court and the court cases they handled; one comes to the conclusion that State secession was indeed legal in 1860 and 1861. You may ask why? It was simply because of the very definition of an illegal/illegitimate act. The fact is that the Constitution is silent on the issue of secession and in 1860/61 there had been no official Supreme Court ruling to officially interpret the Constitution on this issue.
Therefore, the act of secession in the mid 19th century was not only a viable and legitimate action but actually Constitutionally sanctioned. This is because of the fact that if an issue is not directly dealt with in the Constitution and there has been no Supreme Court cases to officially interpret the Constitution on the given issue, it is left to the States in what's called a Reserved Right. Subsequently to the people, respectively.
This did not change until the 1869 Supreme Court case Texas v. White, in which it was declared that State secession is not sanctioned under the current Constitution. However, as any highschool government student can tell us; laws and the interpretation thereof can only go forward. This case was an example of ex-post-facto law. Seeing as it basically criminalized the act of State secession but never the less, after the fact.
Even the legitimacy of this Court decision is up for debate though.
If you can't leave you don't have true freedom. You are held in at the point of a gun. Secession as stated in the declaration of independence1 a god given right not up for even debate by the small minority in DC that are supposed to mind their own business and handle foreign issues. And I can defeat your argument with your own logic. Look at the dates in which the last states wre readmitted into the union. In 1870. The supreme court
Lol, luigi84289, just see how people do not fully read both posts before giving a thumbs up or down... That "If" tacked on at the end of your actual first post meant all the difference, scary that people making clerical errors like this are allowed to vote in world leaders.
The point was that secession was not over slavery or racism. I just got through working a 12 hour shift at work and am physically exhausted. Do you now what it's like to perform a hard days work? that statement is uncalled for. Judging me like you did on one statement is the epitome of arrogance.
Luigi, it's fine, and again if you look down not to many posts; I posted three consecutive posts full of facts, absent of opinion in support of secession. The fact is that our Southland seceded when it was unquestionably legal, and therefore the very fact that we were denied that right makes any post conflict legislation against it null-and-void for us.
I agree. The debate is useless because you can't make it illegal. I was just pointing out how you can debunk easily the 1868 Texas vs. White argument. Didn't mean to lose it back there. Sorry about that friend. We need to let everybody know that the courts don't have a right to legislate at all over the states on things that they don't constitutionally have a right to, especially when it's on something they can't legislate anyway. Trying to legislate the
Great vid. Texas was it's own independent country before it was admitted. like the 13 colonies, it would never have consented to Union annexation if we could never leave. We are very independence minded in Texas just like the rest of the southland. We don't respect anybody who tries to trample on it. Something of interest I'd like to point out is that we went back to full independent nationhood for a while before officially joining the confederacy. School never tells you that though. If
im ready to be free, the feds have now established a socialist regime, they now tell us what cars we can drive, what kind of appliances we can put in our home it's all a joke on us, and it's joke that im damn sick of, hopefully, soon the joke will be on them.
every state has a right to cede . this is in every state constitution .
jenni3613 2 months ago
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states have been ceding from the union for the last 17 years . California was the first to do so . mainstream media is not allowed to report on this ( national security reasons ) but there are many independent report on this online . just google ----------> " american secession movement " this is no joke .
jenni3613 2 months ago
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Check out my video. If you don't believe in secession, then you believe in slavery, for you are for enslaving people to a government that they want no part of:
youtube.com/watch?v=oiH_XnqnyHU
ErikLiberty 1 year ago
Not necessarily a higher being, his argument correctly points out that nature is where all of our rights come from which is indisputable. It is no other mans place to try and control another man, limit his movement what he can consume, what flag he can wave, or any other dictate unless the man it is imposed upon agrees upon it in a condition other than Duress. This is why I don't understand why more atheists don't rally for secession, r
Luigi84289 1 year ago
@Luigi84289 Real freedom and liberty. These same men who rail on about how mice and other animals will fight tooth and nail to achieve a state of freedom enslave themselves to other men's wills and desires.
Luigi84289 1 year ago
Rights are indeed inalienable and natural. States always have a right of secession in cases of obscene injustice, denial of liberty, etc.
The Confederate States of America (and pre-1865 Union) were both illegitimate states precisely because of this; they enshrined slavery and the denial of the liberty of all black men in their constitution and founding documents.
beingforitse1f 2 years ago
Any state is basically an enemy of liberty - that is the nature of government. I agree that slavery was wrong - in both the USA and CSA. Too bad that Jefferson's principle of 'That government is best which governs least' has not been the basis of self-government in America. Rather, we have had increasing centralisation and loss of liberties, ever higher taxes and more and more government intervention at home and around the entire planet.
RedShirtArmy 2 years ago
yup in reality that type of slavery itself was only possible in a state.
Luigi84289 2 years ago
Yup the "Civil War" because of the Union victory has resulted in more slavery than the antibellum slavery. We can't do anything without running it by big brother first. Gotta get that license, permit, passport etc. The government has to know our every move and what we are doing at all times. Can't even take some things voluntarily into our own bodies without being thrown in jail. People don't put things into perspective until they look at how much "protection" the government has over us.
Luigi84289 2 years ago
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Luigi84289 2 years ago
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Luigi84289 2 years ago
@beingforitse1f Remember all of your knowledge of the CSA is coming from the north. The victors write history. Look at where your history books are published. None of us learn what was going on behind the scenes before the war was thrust upon us. We either had to become a slave region (as we are now) to the rest of the states who were leading a cultural majority in Congress or we could choose freedom/self governance. We chose the latter. RR's are anti-south
Luigi84289 1 year ago
@beingforitse1f Slavery was an American problem that had to be phased out and could not be instantaneously abolished if the well being of everyone living in America was to be maintained. It is a very weak justification as it does not take into account the condition of the region and people's natural right to be free. There was and is nothing wrong with the Southern people as even Yankees today that come down here will attest. We're all in slavery now and quite helpless. Read slave narratives.
Luigi84289 1 year ago
@Luigi84289 slavery has nothing to do with the liberty of the states . its an idea that was forced upon the Republics these once free states . the idea of freedom does not die .
jenni3613 2 months ago
@jenni3613 I know it didn't that's the point I was making. Because we lost in 1865 Freedom was lost for America.
Luigi84289 2 months ago
@Luigi84289 . the fact is that 21 states are no longer apart of the united states of america . i do not plan to keep quiet about this .
jenni3613 2 months ago
@beingforitse1f Slavery would have been done away with over time and was not the foundation of the Southern economy. Physical labor was. My dad worked on a plantation in the 60's. Anyone can do the work.
Luigi84289 1 year ago
RSA, one last question, then I will move on:
YES or NO: Do you believe that the SC government, which made the decision to secede, was illegitimate because it disenfranchised blacks, who were over 60% of the SC population in 1861?
I don't want to hear about the North or England. I am talking about SC, which you describe as YOUR state.
The OBVIOUS answer is that the SC government was illegitimate. Wouldn't you agree with that?
This is a Yes or No question.
lunchcountersitin 2 years ago
SC at that time obviously did not follow the Natural Law in regards to Black people. I will grant you that if it is what you are looking for. To me all government is awful, so it's not much of a concession. I can only point out that it was 150 years ago and that at that time almost no nation on earth gave Blacks their due natural rights. So if we are to say that SC was illigitimate then we must say that nearly all gov'ts then were illegitimate. As far as the recognised citizentry...
RedShirtArmy 2 years ago
... (continued) the right of secession was properly and legally excersied.
I will also say that even in contempory times if we judge the US by Natural Law it is illegitimate. It enslaves people (conscription during Vietnam), it wages aggressive wars (murder) and it steals our wealth (taxation and inflation). It clearly has no regard for the Constitution in what it does. So, no government truly follows Natural Law - which is why I am in general anti-gov't and want as small of one as possible.
RedShirtArmy 2 years ago
"Strictly speaking under our system the States are sovereign and can not be split up BUT by their own GOVERNMENT."
I get the point: under your "system" people would not have the right to secede from the state. Although the people have the natural right to create their own state, those rights could negated by the sovereign STATE GOVERNMENT.
I get it. Really I do.
lunchcountersitin 2 years ago
You misunderstand me. I mean to say that under the original US system you can not secede from a State without that State approving it. I am however arguing that in my own personal opinion you have the natural right to break away from any tyrannical government. I'm not trying to play with words - rather, to make a distinction between the original concept of the US and States rights and what I personally believe (which is more libertarian than what the Founders believed). Hope you understand now.
RedShirtArmy 2 years ago
{The folks who didn't want to secede could live in peace under a free SC.}
So... you feel that SC has a right to secede, but you would deny the people in SC their own right to secede from this new state.
Sounds like hypocrisy to me. But at least you're being honest.
lunchcountersitin 2 years ago
I can understand your objection. Strictly speaking under our system the States are sovereign and can not be split up but by their own government. However, if you ask me personally, I would say that if one part of SC didnt didn't want to be part of our freed republic (say for example one of our counties) I would be fine with letting them go their own way. I would certainly not be for invading them. It's more difficult if it were just a few scattered people amongst the general population.
RedShirtArmy 2 years ago
Virginia did not "give up her western lands..." WVA seceded from VA because the folks in WVA didn't want to join the Confederacy.
I go back to my question: what happens if, say, 60% of SC wants to secede, and 40% don't. Will the 40% be able to secede from SC or to stay in the US?
Will the SC military be used to put down the 40% who disagree?
Will there be ethnic cleansing to remove the 40% who don't agree.
I am curious to hear the answers to these questions.
lunchcountersitin 2 years ago
I was referring to the time just after the forming of the US when VA gave up her western lands. The case of WV was one of ultimate hypocrisy. The North claimed not to believe in secession but supported the secession of WV.
If 60% of SC wanted to secede we would do so. The folks who didn't want to secede could live in peace under a free SC. And of course there would be no ethnic cleansing. We are not tyrannical people. We believe in less government - not more.
RedShirtArmy 2 years ago
The US is a creation of the States - not the other way around. So if a State seceded the people living in that State would go with their State. If they wished to live under the US they would need to move to a State still in the so-called 'union' (which is truthfully no longer a union because it's not voluntary). In our system as the Founders devised it, the people in their communities - the States - are sovereign while the Feds are the agent of the States. That's the Jeffersonian view.
RedShirtArmy 2 years ago
There is talk here of whether the secession of 1861 was "legitimate."
Of course it was not. During that time, the slave population was denied its natural rights to participate in government and the secession decision.
In 1861, SC was majority black. SC's decision to secede was illegitimate because the majority of its people were denied the right to weigh in on this decision.
Indeed, every state government of every southern state was illegitimate, since slaves were denied participation in them
lunchcountersitin 2 years ago
I'm certainly not here to defend slavery. Blacks were disenfranchised in the North as well. They were disenfranchised in nearly all countries of the world. Even after they were 'freed', Northern States refused to let them settle in certain areas or hold office, etc. So no one is defending slavery. Secession from the UK in 1776 was done without Black enfranchisement either, remember.
RedShirtArmy 2 years ago
RSA, my point was not that you are defending slavery.
In 1860, SC had 291,300 and 412,320 disenfranchised blacks. I think we'd both agree that the SC government was illegitimate due to its denial of natural rights for so many of its residents... correct?
This is just a guess but... I think the history concerning secession and the Civil War would be very different if the blacks had the vote. Just a guess.
lunchcountersitin 2 years ago
If you took that view then you'd have to say the US was illegitimate as well - even the secession from England. But then England had slaves then too. So you see, we can make value judgements about the morality of the systems but if you say that slavery made the system illegitimate then you'd have to say that almost all systems then were illegitimate.
I am personally skeptical of gov't in general & believe that less gov't is always better because gov't itself is simply a monopoly of force.
RedShirtArmy 2 years ago
State lines are arbitrary accidents of history. The British could have created 1300 states instead of 13.
The vast majority of Americans see beyond these artificial lines. They understand, if only subconsciously, that they are citizens not of an arbitrarily created state, but a consciously created nation.
It is sad you see yourself as a native of that which happens to be within the colonially created area of SC. Fortunately, most American see beyond that, and embrace the fullness of America.
lunchcountersitin 2 years ago
That is only partially true. These lines were changed a lot during colonial days and afterwards. Maine broke off from Mass, for example. NC broke off from SC. Virginia gave up her western lands to create new communities. In my State people are very proud to be South Carolinians. I am not a member of some giant empire of 300 million people. I am a South Carolinian. That is my country. The US is the power that occupies us. I'm ready for the Feds to be gone and never return. And I'm not alone.
RedShirtArmy 2 years ago
In the Declar. of Indep., there is not only a statement of natural rights. Under its many "whereas" statements, it identifies the reasons why the colonies sought a separate country. The Founders recognized that leaving Great Britain was not to be done on an arbitrary basis or for trivial reasons.
This analysis makes it seem like secession could occur for an arbitrary reason... e.g., a person of a certain ethnicity getting elected. Is this something we should be reasonably promoting?
lunchcountersitin 2 years ago
[1] Question: how many people does it take to decide to secede?
What if, for example, 60% of the people of a state want to secede... does that mean that the remaining 40% can then secede from this new state, and then rejoin the union? Or would force be used to keep the 40% minority under the rule and control of the 60% minority?
lunchcountersitin 2 years ago
The government is not my country. My country is this land and the people that live one it.
2100km 2 years ago
if it comes to full out war to thing that us real americans ( everybody both the conspiritors) wont use real force like our air arm. all you southerners got are rifles. i wish you good luck after your death becuase thats whats gonna happen if you men keep on being disillusionized about right and wrong. next thing your going to do is put slavery back in order.
starcraft2222 2 years ago
You have us totally wrong. No one is supporting slavery or violence. Did you even listen? In fact, we want the opposite of what you claim we want. We want freedom, peace and prosperity.
RedShirtArmy 2 years ago
redshirt. even if you dont support slavery, do you think america will do nothing if you take 13 states away? all youll be causing is death and violence and for what, another loss. you have freedom, peace and depending how smart you are, prospeirity
starcraft2222 2 years ago
We are America too. America is many cultures and people - not the government. I don't know how they will react to be honest. I hope as decent, non-violent people. I disagree with you that I have freedom and peace. There is less freedom (esp economic) every day. Compared to our ancestors, we have very little freedom. And the US is always at war. The US kills people in foreign lands every day. I am strongly opposed to this. I want more freedom and an end to the imperialism.
RedShirtArmy 2 years ago
we kill to liberate countrys. god damn it if you dont like leaving in this country get the hell out! the onlky reason you stay is that you know that america is better then anywere else. sure, our freedom is much less then it wass 200 years ago, or even 100 years ago, but thats becuase people were running around killing eachother and that was a everyday thing. you hear some1 died and you shrug it of! our freedom leasened cuase of the idiots who abused it. we still have tons of freedom.
starcraft2222 2 years ago
That woud be funny if it wasn't so sad. The Feds blow up entire villages in Afghanistan, killing women and children and you claim that is to 'liberate' them?
You tell me to leave 'this country'? My country is South Carolina - not your Empire. SC DID leave and people like you invaded us, raped women, burned towns, shot thousands of our people and put us under military rule. The US conquered us just like they conquered Afghanistan. Very tragic how imperialist the US is today.
RedShirtArmy 2 years ago
The thing is, you assume that the mere act of balkanization will lead to freedom, peace and prosperity. This is insane.
Who's to say that these new states wouldn't be even MORE repressive? There's NO guarantee one way or the other.
Regardless of its legality, secession will never happen. Once people sit down and really think of the economic and political consequences, and the risk of a even more dangerous regime than we have now, even today's secessionists will sing a different tune.
lunchcountersitin 2 years ago
Right On!
ApocalypticFervor 2 years ago
Not all yankee's are bad people most are just misinformed. I know a few yankee's that fly the Confederate flag and would fight right along side of us.
ThaNorthFace 2 years ago 2
Let's do it..yankees can go to hell..and they need our help to get there..bastards!
JohnMOverman 2 years ago
Well they ran through the briars and they ran through the brambles..they ran into places that a rabbit wouldn't go
JohnMOverman 2 years ago 5
Great song!
RedShirtArmy 2 years ago
Actually swtxredneck, the Colonial 1776 secession indeed illegal; however, Southern 1860's secession was legal.
Joseph565112 2 years ago 2
Georgians.....don't vote for this guy. His "patriotism" definition rivals G.W.'s
/watch?v=fHtS9ZEhaKw
GaGirlie777 2 years ago 2
Couldn't worse than GW. pro states rights generally doesn't make one want to go to foreign unchristian wars of aggression and invasion.
Luigi84289 2 years ago 2
I see our shackes. IRS .
I believe that we have unalienable rights.
Secession is the only thing that will save the culture of the South and even the North.
GaGirlie777 2 years ago 3
gagirlie, you have those shackles on becuase you went over your head and bought stuff you were not able to afford. hll all of you are like this and onlu want to sucede to iliminate your debt. thats it isnt it. thats what most of you want. if you secede america will be like europe, fighting our neighbors for power
starcraft2222 2 years ago
Starcraft, there will only be violence if people like you try to stop us from being free and independent. We want peaceful separation from your evil Empire that tortures people, invades countless countries and oppresses us with outragesous taxes and regulations. We want nothing to do with the Federal monster and its rag of occuation. You can keep it. And we certainly don't want more bloodshed. Peace, prosperity and indepedence from the Feds.
RedShirtArmy 2 years ago
Legality has no point of issue when speaking of Secession. Do you think Ben Franklin and George Washington were following the law 1776?
or Stephen F Austin and Sam Houston in 1836?
or Robert E Lee and Jefferson Davis worried about Legality in 1865?
Why should we worry about it now??
swtxredneck 2 years ago
Men make the laws. Gods principles trump all. The day man's law rivals god is the day hell becomes the cowboys football stadium.
Luigi84289 2 years ago
forgive me i was on a rig in the gulf what happened to the Cowboys Stadium??
swtxredneck 2 years ago
we can all rally to the idea of secession, and the lawyers can make it legal. But what its all going to boil down to is do we have the man power, and the force of arms to beat the federal government i.e. the largest military on the planet or not...
IF Texas secedes I will pick up my rifle and fight all foes that come against her. But do I think a civilian gaurd can beat the Socialist army out of D.C.? no.
they have tanks and f-16s
swtxredneck 2 years ago
that's exactly right, the south was hoping the north would respect their god given right and leave them alone. Unfortunately they were wrong. The north didn't care about god just about invading southerners for money. If enough states secede thought the fed won't have any choice, the men who make up the army aren't going to kill their families, the more states secede the smaller the army becomes. American structure people->state->feds
Luigi84289 2 years ago 2
your looking at it as if we were going to fight the entire union? brother we are not alone. more states will join us i promise you!
phelotus 2 years ago 4
the 13 colonies seceded from England, and the Confederacy seceded from the Union, and Texas seceded from Mexico. the one thing they all had in common was when you talk of secession there is always a fight afterwards.
swtxredneck 2 years ago
if we (the states) created the federal government, then we should be able to DESTROY it!!
defenderoFreedom 2 years ago 5
The Federal Beast has become rabid and must be put down!
Deo Vindice!
CelticSouthland 2 years ago 4
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Joseph565112 2 years ago
concept of leaving is like trying to legislate breathing. Oh yeah you can no longer breath in the united states anymore that's now against the law. lol Because that's all secession boils down to, it's just leaving. I think if we promoted it in this way it would really help us get the point across to other people.
Luigi84289 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Yeah, we will just see what happens this summer. Last summer's ridiculous fuel prices kind of kicked all these troubles into motion. It has greatly increased support and even just the average family's thought on secession, especially here in Dixie. People will only take losing so much, their 401K is one thing, but general freedoms...The FEDs may be in for a suprise and sooner than we think.
Joseph565112 2 years ago
case was made in 1868. So is the union indissolvable as stated in the case? Grant Recognized those states as not apart of it until he readmitted them 2 years later. Also the supreme court justices could only be appointed from states still in the union and not undergoing reconstruction. Which was the northern states. Can one part of the union really speak for all? If new england wants to make it illegal for them that's cool, but southerners have always obeyed what the forefathers said.
Luigi84289 2 years ago
When one examines the facts regarding the United States Constitution, Supreme Court and the court cases they handled; one comes to the conclusion that State secession was indeed legal in 1860 and 1861. You may ask why? It was simply because of the very definition of an illegal/illegitimate act. The fact is that the Constitution is silent on the issue of secession and in 1860/61 there had been no official Supreme Court ruling to officially interpret the Constitution on this issue.
Joseph565112 2 years ago
Therefore, the act of secession in the mid 19th century was not only a viable and legitimate action but actually Constitutionally sanctioned. This is because of the fact that if an issue is not directly dealt with in the Constitution and there has been no Supreme Court cases to officially interpret the Constitution on the given issue, it is left to the States in what's called a Reserved Right. Subsequently to the people, respectively.
Joseph565112 2 years ago
This did not change until the 1869 Supreme Court case Texas v. White, in which it was declared that State secession is not sanctioned under the current Constitution. However, as any highschool government student can tell us; laws and the interpretation thereof can only go forward. This case was an example of ex-post-facto law. Seeing as it basically criminalized the act of State secession but never the less, after the fact.
Even the legitimacy of this Court decision is up for debate though.
Joseph565112 2 years ago
If you can't leave you don't have true freedom. You are held in at the point of a gun. Secession as stated in the declaration of independence1 a god given right not up for even debate by the small minority in DC that are supposed to mind their own business and handle foreign issues. And I can defeat your argument with your own logic. Look at the dates in which the last states wre readmitted into the union. In 1870. The supreme court
Luigi84289 2 years ago
excellent vid. all for freedom!!!
4freedomcsa 2 years ago
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Luigi84289 2 years ago
Lol, luigi84289, just see how people do not fully read both posts before giving a thumbs up or down... That "If" tacked on at the end of your actual first post meant all the difference, scary that people making clerical errors like this are allowed to vote in world leaders.
Joseph565112 2 years ago
Comment removed
Luigi84289 2 years ago
Comment removed
Luigi84289 2 years ago
The point was that secession was not over slavery or racism. I just got through working a 12 hour shift at work and am physically exhausted. Do you now what it's like to perform a hard days work? that statement is uncalled for. Judging me like you did on one statement is the epitome of arrogance.
Luigi84289 2 years ago
By the way, I judged the people to lazy to read both of your comments.
Joseph565112 2 years ago
cool, thought you were talking to me.
Luigi84289 2 years ago
Luigi, it's fine, and again if you look down not to many posts; I posted three consecutive posts full of facts, absent of opinion in support of secession. The fact is that our Southland seceded when it was unquestionably legal, and therefore the very fact that we were denied that right makes any post conflict legislation against it null-and-void for us.
Joseph565112 2 years ago
I agree. The debate is useless because you can't make it illegal. I was just pointing out how you can debunk easily the 1868 Texas vs. White argument. Didn't mean to lose it back there. Sorry about that friend. We need to let everybody know that the courts don't have a right to legislate at all over the states on things that they don't constitutionally have a right to, especially when it's on something they can't legislate anyway. Trying to legislate the
Luigi84289 2 years ago
Great vid. Texas was it's own independent country before it was admitted. like the 13 colonies, it would never have consented to Union annexation if we could never leave. We are very independence minded in Texas just like the rest of the southland. We don't respect anybody who tries to trample on it. Something of interest I'd like to point out is that we went back to full independent nationhood for a while before officially joining the confederacy. School never tells you that though. If
Luigi84289 2 years ago 2
Lol, luigi, take it easy. You completely, 100% misread/misunderstood my post...
Joseph565112 2 years ago
I agree ! Freedom !
FinalWar1444 2 years ago
im ready to be free, the feds have now established a socialist regime, they now tell us what cars we can drive, what kind of appliances we can put in our home it's all a joke on us, and it's joke that im damn sick of, hopefully, soon the joke will be on them.
Moonshiner41 2 years ago
the Federal government went off course. now it's time for the revolution.
KhmerD0g 2 years ago
Hope yall enjoy this piece sent in to us. Aren't you ready to be free? I am. Yall take care.
RedShirtArmy 2 years ago