Ah good!! - I see you took my advice and stopped censoring comments that disagree with your dogma......Now we can try to get at the truth through reasoned dialogue!
From YOUR perspective, an atheist is merely someone who doesn't share your particular "faith" "Superstition" or dogma, as it is the ONLY one YOU, YOURSELF, will acknowledge the existence of. Your response to them holding that position is "Prove there is no God".
Any self respecting atheist will tell you that, though this is possible, there is no need, as your ideas are too batshit crazy to have any credance in the first place!! - Lol!!
@mgigkgeg Your attacks on me do not further your position in any way which u never state. You never actually gave any specific examples of these "straw man' arguments. Just your insults which are based on your unfounded and arbitrary opinion, that u assume you are in some way correct in your believe but what do you believe? But if you are an atheist you really do not have to make any sense of course. You have no reason even to trust in the laws of logic like i do with a Biblical world view has.
@kingdmculture im do not care in the slightest, I just wanted to point out what I thought about you which is fair game if you make misinformed videos and try to add me to your friend list. I dont see why I should have to go out of my way to explain blindingly obvious things that you should have found out for yourself beforehand, all you do is rehash flawed arguments made by ill informed christians. So to conclude, DO SOME RESEARCH.
Most gods I've heard defined cannot exist due to logic. I.e. they're defined with mutually exclusive or impossible characteristics. Like omnipotence. Or infinite forgiveness and infinite justice (that's just of the things I've heard).
I don't believe in god because I have not seen sufficient evidence. That is my sensible position.
I call myself atheist because I don't have theistic belief.
Before we understood the airfoil shape of a bird's wing, we didn't know how a bird could fly. The explanation was a god. Once we understood the simple physics behind it, we could build airplanes that fly. Not yet knowing how the first self-replicating chemicals formed doesn't mean that an infinitely more complex being must have made them. Also, I don't know any atheists that think that life arrived here on crystals.
I just had a college course in Astronomy, and the prof said the Big Bang was most likely a rapid expansion of highly compressed matter. He said that, similar to a collapsing star going into supernova, the same thing had likely happened on a much larger scale. He suspected that the events leading up to the "bang" would be as well understood in the next few decades as the events that lead to a supernova. I find god(s) doubtful. BTW is "water of life" made of H20? If not, why call it water?
@widgetas first of all, the evidence you show us isn't always 100% accurate. Most of the time it's a hoax. Since you athiests do not believe God exists your morality is not very important. It's easier for you to lie because you do not have anyone governing you but yourselves. So now lawlessness and lies are okay because laws don't aply to blobs of goo. As long as you get your point across. Plus the definition if an atheist is someone who denies the existence of the almighty God.
Do you people (ie. those who take such stances) ever do any research with regards to what your opposition are saying, or do you simply repeat the same old thing you hear from people like Comfort etc. without bothering to even consider that there might be responses around already?
Maybe I'm giving too much credit to someone who thinks atheists say "There is no god." If you can't even read up on a definition, then who can help you?
Also: How can a faith fit the facts? Then it wouldn't be faith.
So Atheists do believe that God could exist? Not many of the ones I speak with. But that is the logical position to take.
Yes, God, His miracles, claims, promises are received by faith. Cannot place those things in a lab or under a microscope for evaluation. But all that God has spoken and the continuity of the scriptures are not contradicted by the observable facts. Including the fossils, archeological discoveries, revealed truths about our world ect..
@kingdmculture "Yes" - Then why are you talking rubbish?
"So Atheists do believe that God could exist?" - NO! They (weak) accept the possibility that a god ( *A* god) or gods could exist. Like fairies, unicorns, goblins, trolls, imps etc. Your god isn't a special case - it's the same for all deities ever. We cannot 100% say it doesn't exist - unless such existence is a logical impossibility.
@kingdmculture Do not think for a second that your god has some sort of special status - To atheists that god is exactly the same as all the others: Thor, Odin, Bel etc etc.
You might not be able to understand that, but it doesn't stop it being true.
"...received by faith" - Then I hope you never try and prove them right. I've seen many Christians say "x, y and z are PROOF of god.". You realise that you can never have proof, because then your faith would be instantly evaporated?
@Widgetas There are lots of good reasons for my belief in the God of the Bible. Your arguments about Thor really do not compare. There are no good reasons to believe that these names that you mentioned have any basis in the world we live in. Go ahead study them. All truly recognized scholars will never argue as you are trying to compare these names with Jesus of Nazareth. Only the venomous new atheists who recoil at the very huge logical reality the God is so real do so.
@kingdmculture Only the venomous new atheists who recoil at the very huge logical reality the God is so real do so." - Spare me. Using the term "New atheists" is a ploy to misdirect attention from very legitimate arguments. Implying that all these issues are suddenly new and *shock* aggressive (oh my, the terrible terrible words they use!)
"compare these names with Jesus of Nazareth" - Oh yes I forgot the hundreds of sources outside the bible for Jesus. Oh wait there aren't any. Look. It. Up.
@kingdmculture "There are lots of good reasons for my belief in the God of the Bible. " - With all sincerity, I ask you to watch this video. It's only ten minutes. What have you got to lose? You have your faith in Jesus - remember that. Can you watch this ten minute video, about the history of 'god'?
watch?v=MlnnWbkMlbg
If you decide not to watch it - can you honestly justify to yourself why you have chosen not to?
For instance I believe in the Universe because it is in front of me and I can interact with it.
The origin of the Universe is not important. All that really matters is that it is here. I don't make claims about the origin of the Universe, so no faith is needed.
We can entertain ideas about the origin of the Universe, but considering something and having faith that it is true are 2 different things altogether.
Even if every strawman you presented was a smoke screen because the theist believes in magic. Magic. .... magic. You embrace that concept but run from it as well. Magic!
@Danmill23 Hmm... no magic dude. Creator God. Hmmm... there has never been any credible mechanism discoverd to explain the origin of life or the fairy tale of evolution. The magic of the athiest is; sit back and watch laws, time, matter, space that came from no where with absolutly zero gudance or cause create life, order, expression, art, design, love. You really got to want to believe that with no evidence. Oh yeah your magic.... TIME but where did IT come from? Believe it but not science!
The burden of proof is on those making the positive claim; you can't disprove Thor, Zeus or the Cosmic Teapot, yet I suspect you don't believe they exist.
Atheism means that one doesn't believe in a god, Agnostism means that one doesn't know there is a god. They refer to different axis, one is about belief, one is about knowledge. For example I could be an Agnostic Theist; I could believe that a god exists, but not know that god exists.
@sweatytoothmadman Duh... that's why He is God dude. He does miricles. Stuff that can't happen apart from Him to mess you up. Lot's more in the Bible and I have even seen them in my life and in people I know. God operates inside and outside the limits of time, space and matter. It does take faith to follow God but when one does He begins to do stuff that only He can do and ones faith is confirmed. What you believe is faith but you won't admit it.
“Duh... that's why He is God dude. He does miricles.”
You can use that logic to rational leprechauns and their existence. The moment you show them that whatever their claim is to be impossible they’ll just say “miracles”, but if we based are claims solely on what we do know they it truly does take more faith to believe in the Bible than to be an atheist.
You cannot even write at a 4th-grade level - "allot" should be "a lot" and "then" should be "than" - so how the hell do you expect to do critical thinking (analysis) at a high school level? Answer is: you are not capable of it.
@indignant99 Sorry dude, spell check not working and yes spelling has always been difficult for me. But you don't have to be a genius to see that an inttelligent source could only explain what we observe.
Your attack on my spelling does nothing to advance your argument if you believe that there is not God. PS if you do believe you are without meaning or purpose why do you care what anyone else thinks. I don't think you really believe what you say you do.
It's also amusing that you seem to think anyone philosophically inclined must accept that "God" is a possibility. My response to that is that I don't even know that "God" is a coherent concept. Much less if the idea of universe creation is an actual possibility.
I certainly don't know what non-material intelligence is. As far as I can tell, intelligence presupposes matter. Nor do I get why anyone would think "explaining" complexity by introducing a vastly more complex entity is satisfying
@Gnomefro You proved my point; " don't even know that "God" is a coherent concept". u don't know, that is what I am saying. If u are honest u must claim ignorace to the existance of God making you an agnostic. What I am saying is u can know Him. If He is real and I testify to you that He is. He WILL hear your honest prayer and an honest search for Him showing Himself u in a way that only He can. Many many athiest have come to find that He is true. Pray, ask. What have u 2 lose?
And of course, saying "God did it" is not an explanation. It's just inventing a label to put on all the stuff you don't understand about reality. We also don't have to deify anything, certainly not "dirt". All it takes is the realization that we have no information what so ever about the number of trials involved here, nor about the nature of the hard limitations of reality that we call the laws of nature. In short, we have no basis for regarding it as fantastic or unlikely.
2. We have no record of anything ever being "created" in the sense you are talking about here. Nor do we know that it is even possible.
3. The universe appears to be causally closed.
4. Time is part of the universe and an integral part of our understanding of causality.
Conclusion: I don't know that an explanation for why existence exists even makes sense. Certainly not a causal explanation. So I don't feel I have to invent one.
And you say that all we can do is come up with big words in an attempt to explain how the universe could always be here. Well, we have a bit more than that. Thermodynamics. The conservation of energy and matter. These are testable confirmed scientific laws that in short state that matter and energy cannot be created or destroyed. If it can’t be created, then surely it was not created. It requires no explanation. It just is. It is the essence of that which is. I think that’s pretty clear. :)
I’d like you to take all the criticism you had to the ”The universe has always existed” claim and apply it to your God. Why is it a problem that matter just exists, but it’s not a problem that God just exists? Why don’t you think matter can arrange itself and do things on its own, but you think God can? Why does material require a cause, an explanation or a creator, but God doesn’t? If the theories have to have explanatory power, then what explanatory power does “God did it” have?
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odinata 2 weeks ago
Ah good!! - I see you took my advice and stopped censoring comments that disagree with your dogma......Now we can try to get at the truth through reasoned dialogue!
Tobytrim 3 months ago
From YOUR perspective, an atheist is merely someone who doesn't share your particular "faith" "Superstition" or dogma, as it is the ONLY one YOU, YOURSELF, will acknowledge the existence of. Your response to them holding that position is "Prove there is no God".
Any self respecting atheist will tell you that, though this is possible, there is no need, as your ideas are too batshit crazy to have any credance in the first place!! - Lol!!
Tobytrim 3 months ago
@mgigkgeg Your attacks on me do not further your position in any way which u never state. You never actually gave any specific examples of these "straw man' arguments. Just your insults which are based on your unfounded and arbitrary opinion, that u assume you are in some way correct in your believe but what do you believe? But if you are an atheist you really do not have to make any sense of course. You have no reason even to trust in the laws of logic like i do with a Biblical world view has.
kingdmculture 3 months ago
@kingdmculture im do not care in the slightest, I just wanted to point out what I thought about you which is fair game if you make misinformed videos and try to add me to your friend list. I dont see why I should have to go out of my way to explain blindingly obvious things that you should have found out for yourself beforehand, all you do is rehash flawed arguments made by ill informed christians. So to conclude, DO SOME RESEARCH.
mgigkgeg 3 months ago
Most gods I've heard defined cannot exist due to logic. I.e. they're defined with mutually exclusive or impossible characteristics. Like omnipotence. Or infinite forgiveness and infinite justice (that's just of the things I've heard).
I don't believe in god because I have not seen sufficient evidence. That is my sensible position.
FHomeBrew 3 months ago
I call myself atheist because I don't have theistic belief.
Before we understood the airfoil shape of a bird's wing, we didn't know how a bird could fly. The explanation was a god. Once we understood the simple physics behind it, we could build airplanes that fly. Not yet knowing how the first self-replicating chemicals formed doesn't mean that an infinitely more complex being must have made them. Also, I don't know any atheists that think that life arrived here on crystals.
ndrthrdr1 8 months ago
I just had a college course in Astronomy, and the prof said the Big Bang was most likely a rapid expansion of highly compressed matter. He said that, similar to a collapsing star going into supernova, the same thing had likely happened on a much larger scale. He suspected that the events leading up to the "bang" would be as well understood in the next few decades as the events that lead to a supernova. I find god(s) doubtful. BTW is "water of life" made of H20? If not, why call it water?
ndrthrdr1 8 months ago
@widgetas first of all, the evidence you show us isn't always 100% accurate. Most of the time it's a hoax. Since you athiests do not believe God exists your morality is not very important. It's easier for you to lie because you do not have anyone governing you but yourselves. So now lawlessness and lies are okay because laws don't aply to blobs of goo. As long as you get your point across. Plus the definition if an atheist is someone who denies the existence of the almighty God.
wertguy12000 1 year ago
@wertguy12000 Hmm odd. Although it looks like it, you didn't actually reply to my comment. That's why yours is above my first one and not below it.
"Most of the time it's a hoax. " - *sigh* No point in even trying to reason with you.
" your morality is not very important" - An insult to non-believers everywhere, and demonstrably incorrect.
" lawlessness and lies are okay " - Find a reasonable atheist saying that. Heck, try and find ANY atheist saying that.
And your final sentence is wrong.
Widgetas 1 year ago
Do you people (ie. those who take such stances) ever do any research with regards to what your opposition are saying, or do you simply repeat the same old thing you hear from people like Comfort etc. without bothering to even consider that there might be responses around already?
Maybe I'm giving too much credit to someone who thinks atheists say "There is no god." If you can't even read up on a definition, then who can help you?
Also: How can a faith fit the facts? Then it wouldn't be faith.
Widgetas 1 year ago
@Widgetas Yes I have done research.
So Atheists do believe that God could exist? Not many of the ones I speak with. But that is the logical position to take.
Yes, God, His miracles, claims, promises are received by faith. Cannot place those things in a lab or under a microscope for evaluation. But all that God has spoken and the continuity of the scriptures are not contradicted by the observable facts. Including the fossils, archeological discoveries, revealed truths about our world ect..
kingdmculture 1 year ago
@kingdmculture "Yes" - Then why are you talking rubbish?
"So Atheists do believe that God could exist?" - NO! They (weak) accept the possibility that a god ( *A* god) or gods could exist. Like fairies, unicorns, goblins, trolls, imps etc. Your god isn't a special case - it's the same for all deities ever. We cannot 100% say it doesn't exist - unless such existence is a logical impossibility.
Widgetas 1 year ago
@Widgetas FTW!
ndrthrdr1 8 months ago
@kingdmculture Do not think for a second that your god has some sort of special status - To atheists that god is exactly the same as all the others: Thor, Odin, Bel etc etc.
You might not be able to understand that, but it doesn't stop it being true.
"...received by faith" - Then I hope you never try and prove them right. I've seen many Christians say "x, y and z are PROOF of god.". You realise that you can never have proof, because then your faith would be instantly evaporated?
Widgetas 1 year ago
@Widgetas There are lots of good reasons for my belief in the God of the Bible. Your arguments about Thor really do not compare. There are no good reasons to believe that these names that you mentioned have any basis in the world we live in. Go ahead study them. All truly recognized scholars will never argue as you are trying to compare these names with Jesus of Nazareth. Only the venomous new atheists who recoil at the very huge logical reality the God is so real do so.
kingdmculture 1 year ago
@kingdmculture Only the venomous new atheists who recoil at the very huge logical reality the God is so real do so." - Spare me. Using the term "New atheists" is a ploy to misdirect attention from very legitimate arguments. Implying that all these issues are suddenly new and *shock* aggressive (oh my, the terrible terrible words they use!)
"compare these names with Jesus of Nazareth" - Oh yes I forgot the hundreds of sources outside the bible for Jesus. Oh wait there aren't any. Look. It. Up.
Widgetas 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@kingdmculture "There are lots of good reasons for my belief in the God of the Bible. " - With all sincerity, I ask you to watch this video. It's only ten minutes. What have you got to lose? You have your faith in Jesus - remember that. Can you watch this ten minute video, about the history of 'god'?
watch?v=MlnnWbkMlbg
If you decide not to watch it - can you honestly justify to yourself why you have chosen not to?
Widgetas 1 year ago
@kingdmculture "are not contradicted by the observable facts" - You're joking, right?
Widgetas 1 year ago
Tell it like it is guy. They are blinded to what to most is so overwhelmingly obvioius.
eekeemowmow 1 year ago
Not so.
I believe in the things that can be tested.
For instance I believe in the Universe because it is in front of me and I can interact with it.
The origin of the Universe is not important. All that really matters is that it is here. I don't make claims about the origin of the Universe, so no faith is needed.
We can entertain ideas about the origin of the Universe, but considering something and having faith that it is true are 2 different things altogether.
No faith is needed.
joshkarandora 1 year ago
believing in a testable natural world takes more faith than believing in magic?
AAL 1 year ago
Even if every strawman you presented was a smoke screen because the theist believes in magic. Magic. .... magic. You embrace that concept but run from it as well. Magic!
Danmill23 1 year ago
@Danmill23 Hmm... no magic dude. Creator God. Hmmm... there has never been any credible mechanism discoverd to explain the origin of life or the fairy tale of evolution. The magic of the athiest is; sit back and watch laws, time, matter, space that came from no where with absolutly zero gudance or cause create life, order, expression, art, design, love. You really got to want to believe that with no evidence. Oh yeah your magic.... TIME but where did IT come from? Believe it but not science!
kingdmculture 1 year ago
@kingdmculture Do you or don't you believe magic exists? Simple question dude!
Danmill23 1 year ago
I don't say that "dirt" is supernatural or has magic powers, I have not deified it.
What we can observe is cosmic background radiation, red-shift and an expanding universe.
"God did it" is not a good explanation; it's hardly even an explanation, it's an intellectual roadblock.
Serpent0fEden 1 year ago
The burden of proof is on those making the positive claim; you can't disprove Thor, Zeus or the Cosmic Teapot, yet I suspect you don't believe they exist.
Atheism means that one doesn't believe in a god, Agnostism means that one doesn't know there is a god. They refer to different axis, one is about belief, one is about knowledge. For example I could be an Agnostic Theist; I could believe that a god exists, but not know that god exists.
Where did God come from?
Serpent0fEden 1 year ago
"You really do have to have allot more faith then any Christian"
You believe someone survived in a whale for three days magically and I don't and yet I am the one with the faith? Sorry but I don't understand.
sweatytoothmadman 1 year ago 3
@sweatytoothmadman Duh... that's why He is God dude. He does miricles. Stuff that can't happen apart from Him to mess you up. Lot's more in the Bible and I have even seen them in my life and in people I know. God operates inside and outside the limits of time, space and matter. It does take faith to follow God but when one does He begins to do stuff that only He can do and ones faith is confirmed. What you believe is faith but you won't admit it.
kingdmculture 1 year ago
@kingdmculture
“Duh... that's why He is God dude. He does miricles.”
You can use that logic to rational leprechauns and their existence. The moment you show them that whatever their claim is to be impossible they’ll just say “miracles”, but if we based are claims solely on what we do know they it truly does take more faith to believe in the Bible than to be an atheist.
sweatytoothmadman 1 year ago
You cannot even write at a 4th-grade level - "allot" should be "a lot" and "then" should be "than" - so how the hell do you expect to do critical thinking (analysis) at a high school level? Answer is: you are not capable of it.
indignant99 1 year ago 2
@indignant99 Sorry dude, spell check not working and yes spelling has always been difficult for me. But you don't have to be a genius to see that an inttelligent source could only explain what we observe.
Your attack on my spelling does nothing to advance your argument if you believe that there is not God. PS if you do believe you are without meaning or purpose why do you care what anyone else thinks. I don't think you really believe what you say you do.
kingdmculture 1 year ago
It's also amusing that you seem to think anyone philosophically inclined must accept that "God" is a possibility. My response to that is that I don't even know that "God" is a coherent concept. Much less if the idea of universe creation is an actual possibility.
I certainly don't know what non-material intelligence is. As far as I can tell, intelligence presupposes matter. Nor do I get why anyone would think "explaining" complexity by introducing a vastly more complex entity is satisfying
Gnomefro 1 year ago 3
@Gnomefro You proved my point; " don't even know that "God" is a coherent concept". u don't know, that is what I am saying. If u are honest u must claim ignorace to the existance of God making you an agnostic. What I am saying is u can know Him. If He is real and I testify to you that He is. He WILL hear your honest prayer and an honest search for Him showing Himself u in a way that only He can. Many many athiest have come to find that He is true. Pray, ask. What have u 2 lose?
kingdmculture 1 year ago
And of course, saying "God did it" is not an explanation. It's just inventing a label to put on all the stuff you don't understand about reality. We also don't have to deify anything, certainly not "dirt". All it takes is the realization that we have no information what so ever about the number of trials involved here, nor about the nature of the hard limitations of reality that we call the laws of nature. In short, we have no basis for regarding it as fantastic or unlikely.
Gnomefro 1 year ago
1. We observe that matter exists.
2. We have no record of anything ever being "created" in the sense you are talking about here. Nor do we know that it is even possible.
3. The universe appears to be causally closed.
4. Time is part of the universe and an integral part of our understanding of causality.
Conclusion: I don't know that an explanation for why existence exists even makes sense. Certainly not a causal explanation. So I don't feel I have to invent one.
Gnomefro 1 year ago
And you say that all we can do is come up with big words in an attempt to explain how the universe could always be here. Well, we have a bit more than that. Thermodynamics. The conservation of energy and matter. These are testable confirmed scientific laws that in short state that matter and energy cannot be created or destroyed. If it can’t be created, then surely it was not created. It requires no explanation. It just is. It is the essence of that which is. I think that’s pretty clear. :)
jillum89 1 year ago
I’d like you to take all the criticism you had to the ”The universe has always existed” claim and apply it to your God. Why is it a problem that matter just exists, but it’s not a problem that God just exists? Why don’t you think matter can arrange itself and do things on its own, but you think God can? Why does material require a cause, an explanation or a creator, but God doesn’t? If the theories have to have explanatory power, then what explanatory power does “God did it” have?
jillum89 1 year ago