Chomsky-Just War Theory and Iraq at West Point-pt2of7

[pilotmonkey]

The guy has a cool name and a big brain.

[dwightirons]

Part 2 of Chomsky's address to West Point Cadets...

[dwightirons]

Part 2 of Chomsky's address to West Point Cadets...

[modernmariorc]

How did the West Point soldiers react to Chomsky's arguments?

[ichisatori]

you might ask the professor who brought him there (for the another book they are reading) and ask him.

i offer this observation: how many US wars is US in now, raher how many fronts, i.e. "War On ____" (Drug War/Terrorism?), how many are Just (morally sound) and Legal, yet they enlist of free will.

several recent studies ask why. look for those. speak out.

i DO NOT SUPPORT such troops or sailors. how could anyone?

[modernmariorc]

Support troops means 1) Train and equip 2)Pay good money 3) Give health insurance and benefits to veterans 4)Send them into danger as a last resort. If you are against the war, you hurt the troops' feelings. Common, that's bullshit.

[Pilot1Engineer]

You know, it is ironic you raise this observation because this dazzled me too.I just cannot contemplate that the integrity of a descent human soul can respond to and participate in what amalgamates to a lucid act of agression, and yet consecrate it.

[8Marx8]

I have a question of my own: Mcain was a pilot during the vietnam war, he dropped bombs and while he escaped their outcomes, people(Children maybe) below didn't. Why someone, with blood on their hands, is able to make it this far and possibly become the president of our country?

[beebobox]

glamor of war is polished with the blood of the enemy.

just keep polishing and war will shine for those not on the receiving end of the guns.

it's not until their own come home in body bags that they'll start to doubt the legality of said war.

[SocratesTheGadfly]

and what of the victims of war whose bodies were never recovered?

of course, i speak of the American citizens and others whose bodily remains were consumed in the debris of the world trade center, the pentagon and those aboard flight 93.

it is NOT for glamour, NOR glory NOR little shiny medals that WE fight for, WE fight for JUSTICE!!

[beebobox]

no you fight because you're told to, but then i never said why you fight, you're saying that so boldly for some reason, a reason which eludes me, i was talking to marx8 with my comment.

the glamor of war ( this case the vietnam war), is polished by the blood of the enemy (in this case the vietnamese), and today, Mcain looks like a hero because enough years have passed for the war to now look shiny and glamorous, hence him being a war hero etc.

ask vietnamese who lost family if they agree.

[SocratesTheGadfly]

actually i fight because i was trained to and i know why due to my personal reasons, training, upbringing and education.

you may want to speak and actually talk with those who fled vietnam from the communist onslaught and the resulting chaos that ensued when south vietnam fell to those same invaders. speak with the 5 million who died as a result from the aggression from the north vietnamese army, the vietcong, the vietminh and the north's secret police.

[beebobox]

you dont fight because you were trained too, trained armies are a tool used if needed, not because they're there.

your personal reasons have nothing to do with why you fight, your commanding officer tells you where to fight and you do it, or you get punished, and he gets it from his commanders etc.

upbringing and education have nothing to do with this.

i have no reason to talk to those people, since those aren't the only people the U.S. armed forces killed, they also killed women and children.

[SocratesTheGadfly]

to be honest i have NEVER read anything more ridiculous than what you have posted on this site. you are just as ill-informed, un-educated, and ignorant as mister chomsky.

you have my sincere pity because it is just not your fault!

[beebobox]

you, are calling chomsky, ill-informed and un-educated.

bwhahahahahaha, wonder why the rest of the world call him a leading intellectual, mind you he's ultra liberal, and i'm not, for example i'm pro Iraq-war and he's so much opposed to it it's not even funny, but calling him uneducated is just off the charts buddy.

hahaha , you made my day there son.

/pat on the head

[SocratesTheGadfly]

YES, chomsky is EXACTLY that because he is a FOOL just like the rest of the entire liberal elite establishment. just do this for me, substitute the word "FAIR" into ALL of his arguments instead of "JUST" and read them out loud to yourself or to others. do his arguments really make sense when using either word? the nature of warfare is NOT about being JUST nor is it about being FAIR. the objective of warfare is to win and that requires sneaking up on your enemy from behind and SMASHING HIS SKULL

[beebobox]

if that's how you understand his point, i know where you stand on understanding the spoken word, and i realize you can't be taken seriously so i'll just say

ok buddy, you're right, and please dont consider me your enemy for not agreeing with you, because you might think it JUST, for you to kill me.

[SocratesTheGadfly]

you are the one who does NOT understand chomsky's motives and agenda. it is individuals like him that BLAME The United States of America for the troubles of the world and specificially in the region we call the middle east. i have some information for you though mister, WE ARE NOT THE PROBLEM!! radicial militant islamo facism IS THE PROBLEM wherever it EXISTS! this moron is part and parcel of the "blame America" crowd and as such are useful idiots to the same terrorists who attacked us!

[beebobox]

chomsky does not blame the united states for the troubles of the world, he just notices that the foreign policy of the government wants to apply different standards to people they are at war with, then to themselves, and they dont try and hide it, he thinks that is hypocritical, i agree, but then, i dont think they should stop it.

i'm pretty pro war in many areas where the USA are at war, how they justify it is often laughable, but why do they feel a need to justify it for the liberal pussies?

[SocratesTheGadfly]

i disagree with the general notion that noam chomsky is identifying hypocrisy. mister chomsky is BLAMING the western world and The United States for causing the problems and that is a fallacy.

a woman is not blame for "allowing" herself to be raped.

it is the rapists who are at fault and should be justly punished.

the basic problem is that of islamo facism.

[beebobox]

the analogy you use isn't a very good one, but i agree with the idea you put forth in it, a woman is not to blame. but that has nothing to do with the united states and the problems of the world.

lets create a scenario

1) country A, B and C can govern themselves as they see fit, and neither of the other 2 can order you to govern differently.

2) country A's government (not the people) decide that country B isn't being run properly and decide to intervene by invading country A and toppling (cont)

[beebobox]

3) country C is opposed to country's B actions and decide to put trade sanctions on country B until it seizes it's military action against country A

4) country B decides that country C is immoral in opposing them and invades them as well.

5) the rest of the world ignores the scenario or align themselves with country B because of it's economic/cultural/military power.

we can easily fit in who's who, given today's state, but lets switch it around and say country A is 1980 is Iraq, (cont)

[beebobox]

country B is Iran and country C is Kuwait.

and this in a world where everything is the same, except Iran is a nuclear power and the U.S. + europe have less military power then Iran has.

theocracy in Iran, etc.

now we're at risk of looking at this differently, and that's the hypocrisy.

and it's very human to behave this way, in order to be fair and not self righteous, we must be critical of our own actions and not take it as a given that we're right, just because it's us and not them.

[SocratesTheGadfly]

your analogy just does not hold up and is exactly the same type of liberal thinking that has led to ALL DISASTERS.

just answer this, if you had little children in your home and found a den of rattlesnakes in the basement, what would you do?

I KNOW WHAT I WOULD DO AND IT DOES NOT TAKE COMMON SENSE TO FIGURE THIS ONE OUT!!

[beebobox]

holy crap, didn't realize i was talking to someone like you.

please ignore my posts and dont answer me, ever again at the risk of me forgetting who and what you are. have a nice day sir.

[SocratesTheGadfly]

the problem with morons like you is that you stand on your head and try to convince the rest of the world is upside down.

WELL GUESS WHAT!!!!

i am a great deal smarter than that and i refuse to play games such as what you have tried to sucker me into.

there is a MORAL RIGHT and a MORAL WRONG despite what this fool chomsky has to say.

[djboony]

us and western foreign affairs are largly responsible for islamic agression because we pop up brutal status quo governments because it is in our economic and strategic intersts to

[SocratesTheGadfly]

you have fallen for the classical LIBERAL line of hate ourselves rather than the evil that others inflict upon us. that EXACT mentality is the same as blaming a woman for "allowing" herself to be raped.

just as it is WRONG to blame the victim for the crime that is perpetrated, it is WRONG to blame the western world for the troubles of the world.

islumo facism is the PROBLEM with the world MORON!!!

[SocratesTheGadfly]

i do not seek your approval NOR your agreeing with me, that is NOT my agenda. i only ask that you OPEN your eyes and OPEN your mind to those who intentionally OR unintentionally wage war upon us by other means. believe me you have NOTHING to fear from me UNLESS you try to bring harm to my family, my soldiers, my country or me. it is persons like chomsky who seek to subvert and destroy the country from within that you should watch just examine the history of the past 100 or so years.

[beebobox]

i could care less what your agenda is buddy, and in fact i'm pretty sure we agree on more then you could imagine, radical islam is not the problem, islam in general is, along with all religion with any hint of possibility of interferance into government policies, meaning most of them.

chomsky is only speaking up to point out the hypocritical position of our governments, and that's good, we need to be critical of our governments, ALL THE TIME, even when we agree with what they're doing.

[beebobox]

cont. ... [even when we agree with what they're doing] , it's the basis of democracy, pity that our media has forgotten it's VITAL role in this process and has become nothing but a propaganda machine FOR our governments instead of being the people's watchdog about what the government is up to.

we have enough media to point out the faults of radical islam, everyone knows that stuff, all though some utopian pacifist liberal morons (most of them in europe it seems) like closing their eyes to it

[SocratesTheGadfly]

the big problem with the mainstream media or the old media is their own inherent liberal bias as well as their own slant of annointing the obamamessiah as the new king of big modern liberalism. for them it is easier to stick their head in the sand OR more accurately up their own arse rather than to attempt to see and view the world objectively because it is OUR country that is at stake and that include EVERYONE that lives in America.

[SocratesTheGadfly]

islam is NOT a religion. it is a cult of death bent upon the goal of enslaving the world to their warped ideology of submission to allah. the problem with chomsky though is that he has become so open minded that his brains have fallen out of his head and has NO CORE values NOR does he have ANY FIRST PRINCIPLES.

[beebobox]

i think that's more your perception of him, because of the issues he brings up, in fact all politicians need to do to have him change his game is say it the way it is, example:

"we are invading iraq, because we messed up earlier, it's an unstable country and we dont trust him, he might have weapons, we want to find out before he uses them, and we want to secure that the oil goes to europe and the U.S. and not china+india, we need oil to function, they have it, we want to make sure WE buy it."

[SocratesTheGadfly]

i am a GREAT DEAL MORE SKEPTICAL of persons like mr chomsky and not only do i NOT trust him, neither do i trust ANY of his colleagues nor his supporters or fanatics. he has an agenda and it is allied with a number of other liberal left wing agendas that are CONTRARY to the foundings of The American Republic.