John Calvin and Owen said God Totally Forsakes Believers

[ProtoSteward]

Andrew is a liar.

[RemnantIM]

Calvinism is false doctrine and anyone who follows it is obviously going to be wrong about many things for they are not being led by the Spirit.

[Surfxeo]

@RemnantIM Calvinism is a God centred theology. Other systems are man centred, it is what I call Anthropology. This is why I do not believe any other doctrine that does not derives its theology direct from the Scriptures.

[FallaciesDetective]

folks, how can one be sure that someone is a great and outstanding theologian ?

well, the answer is simple: whomsoever Andrew accuses is necessarily great...

it' s like a law so far... ;)

[5355vbxjbj76rvn]

Owen is being misread. "This woe attends" both:

"Universal total departure of God from any"

and

"that [departure] also which is gradual or partial, in some things, in some seasons".

*Of course* "they will, as Owen says, "fall into depths" - how could they not ? The more spiritually sensitive the Christian, the greater the anguish of this "departure". A careful reading of Owen's words shows that he is innocent of the accusation against him.

[bornfree3]

Yes, we are told in the Bible to "keep ourselves in the love of God"....this is not about our eternal salvation, but is about God's providential love and care...This is what Owen is speaking about here.....:-)

[DarthVaderShadow]

If the "forsaking" leads to a greater comfort, then it is clearly good for the believer.

[HDell1994]

I wonder if this guy is even saved himself.

[iint3grity]

With such moronic twisting and misrepresentation and ripping out of context, this AndrewcBain gut can make anything mean anything he wants it to mean. Beware! It's people who twist Scripture and everything else in this way that this guy does who end up becoming cult leaders.

[iluvthearts]

he is preaching error

[lethimdenyhimself]

All I can say is John Owen is one of the holiest men that has ever walked the face of this earth.

[ConservativeAnthem]

I take it Arminianism will never die!

[chrisawooldridge]

Why is it that you so hate the general revelation of God? Ezekiel 18:23,32 clearly teaches that God loves all men, and dearly wishes that all would turn and repent. If God loves everyone, then so should we, and preach the gospel universally, rather than being critical and swelling up with pride.

These church leaders whom you critisise are not perfect and may have got it wrong on occasion, but you have taken some of their statements well out of context, and therefore I must disregard your videos.

[Angelina198622]

yeah same here...

=]

[praiselordgrace]

No, you misunderstood the verses 2 Peter 3:9 is not mean for everyone. But His sheep in present and future until the end of the world. His called those who He loved.

[chrisawooldridge]

The verse I cited wasn't 2 Peter 3:9 (which I believe refers to everyone regardless), I deliberately picked a passage that was unambiguous in this respect, completely abolishing this idea that God feels no love for the reprobate. While I agree that God has a special, electing love for his children, there is a universal love God has for everyone that cannot be denied without damaging one's faithfulness to scripture.

[chookna]

Hyper-Calvinism is unscriptural, false doctrine. It tends to flourish in intellectual pride and in neglect of soul winning, and is a symptom of moral guilt. It is Satan's effort to kill concern and compassion for souls.

[praiselordgrace]

Nah, Hyper-Calvinism aren't same Calvinism. They are different between...althought who started kill us with your teach were in history of church. Freewill, Christ died for all, etc. It is false...

[mandemonic63]

AndrewCBain, you sound like a "dumb ass speaking with man's voice " (2 Peter2:16).

Have you ever bothered to consider any of these men of God's teachings in their entirety? You are nothing but a "Rabshakeh".

You sir (and I use that term loosely), are no better than "the men which sit on the wall, eating their own dung, and drinking their own piss" (2 Kings 18:27).

[Funloverdude]

Dude what is wrong with you? Your Salvation seems in doubt bro when you so quickly and stupidly try and accuse all these men with totally out of the blue heresies.

Brother you obviously are quite a flaming anti Calvinist so maybe you got into an argument with some one and got offended but watch it bro, you are storing up judgement for yourself.

[Hezekiah123456]

I watched the part about John Calvin. Honestly...the speaker completely fails to grasp the meaning of Calvin's exposition. He'd do better with a law degree.

[Manofpeaceandwar]

"this woe, this sorrow, does not attend only a universal, total departure of God from any; but that also which is gradual or partial." reads like he's saying God doesn't just leave people all together but distances Himself from us in degrees.

Sin separates us from God and God from us, it is where He is not present because it's beginning and ending are empty. Hell is the finality of this separation where a person becomes forever engulfed by their own sin and that of their master. Understand?

[NeedJustJesus]

Open Revelation and Read about Jesus Christ's Letters to the Seven Churches!!!

[NeedJustJesus]

It was not until mercifully the Government of the State Of Massachusetts put a stop to the Illegal actions of murder. We can choose Satan's lies and be followers to likes of the Jim Jones Cult Mass Murders in Guyana or repent and choose the Real Jesus Christ Savior not False Gnostic Gospels by Satan.

[NeedJustJesus]

No one has to go back to the Salem,Massachusetts muders. i call it murder because everyone men and women who many did not ever commit any practice of witchcraft,who were even Born Again Christians were murdered in the name of Christ. That is the dark truth and most people are stubbornly blinded by Satan and cannot handle the truth.

[fiercegallantry]

Anklebiting moron.

[billybernardo]

Andrew...this is Mr C from Myspace. I have mentioned to you that I acknowledge that the psalms are messianic. However, they certainly do have application to us as well.

And certainly, while God never does depart from those who are his, believers can and do at times "feel" as though they have no assurance of salvation.

David DOES suffer in the psalms as a picture or shadow of Christ and does question the "assurance of salvation."

[Schleiermocker]

andrewcbain=

"arrogant neophyte drooling rash,empty words, blubbering amateurish, inexpert nonsense"

[Klaratu]

get a life andrew john calvin was one of the greatest theologians who ever lived.

[Oct31st1517]

And your point?

[pbcinla]

Sure there are times God withdraws, but I don't believe is abandonment to condemnation. I believe it is phases of sanctification. Sometimes we need to be reminded what we are without God.

But don't dispair. NEVER assume you are reprobate. The Bible does not give you that option. Thomas doubted, but he was still counted as one of the twelve.

[simonlow2002]

Amen Brother. "I will leave nor forsake thee"

[simonlow2002]

Amen Brother. "I will never leave nor forsake thee"

[pbcinla]

Then why does David pray, "Do not cast me away from Thy presence and do not take Thy Holy Spirit from me"?

Has this fellow never had a crisis of faith?

I think he's frustrated because God is bigger than his system of theology.

[simonlow2002]

this commentry is wrong, God can retract His spirit from the believer, thus teaching the believer who is has Soverighn power over His creation, and showing the believer that He is in total control (see Thomas Watson' subject assurane) God chastises those that He loves, there is no comndenation to those that are in Christ, but there believer is still condictioned according to the law of God (sanctification)

[pbcinla]

Thomas Watson is great for this subject.

Can be too introspective, though.

Keep trying to look to Christ alone.

[simonlow2002]

is this person a Christian?

[kentkim23]

Awesome video. Great points about having to change Scripture!

[MBI3030]

who are you (Andrew) going to attack next? Who? Jesus Christ Himself!

[jesuitinfiltrator]

Interesting vid, thanks for this. I love John Owens works for sure, but of course he was human and fallible and yes did make mistakes. We should be in a better position than John Owen now after many years of systematic theology we can have an advantage in, but sadly many do not even study to any depth to even see these things.