I can see whare your comeing frum and i respect that but no ttue communist nation has sprung up they used communist ideas but they werent true becouse some head of state getts currupt down the road it may not be the first one but thats why the world has never exsperienced true communisum
Arguments for and against Communism/Socialism often get very heated and off-point. There does not need to be any argument - all that is needed to say is two simple words: Free Will. For the people who believe in Communism/Socialism because they genuinely want to help people - trust me, I hear you and I hear your argument, but... free will; it is an innate quality and characteristic that cannot be shut off and every single human has it. As long as there is free will, Communism cant work.
Arguments for and against Communism/Socialism often get very heated and off-point. There does not need to be any argument - all that is needed to say is two simple words: Free Will. For the people who believe in Communism/Socialism because they genuinely want to help people - trust me, I hear you and I hear your argument, but... free will; it is an innate quality and characteristic that cannot be shut off and every single human has it. As long as there is free will, Communism cant work.
Arguments for and against Communism/Socialism often get very heated and off-point. There does not need to be any argument - all that is needed to say is two simple words: Free Will. For the people who believe in Communism/Socialism because they genuinely want to help people - trust me, I hear you and I hear your argument, but... free will; it is an innate quality and characteristic that cannot be shut off and every single human has it. As long as there is free will, Communism cant work.
@magomezga Capitalism as we know it today didn't formulate until the nineteenth century after Adam Smith's "Wealth of Nations." The US, which had no colonies, became an economic super power because of capitalism AFTER the abolition of slavery. Yes they're nuts. We can agree.
HA yes please take information about communism on one of the most conservative corporate news station in the world only funded by crazed money hogging pigsXD
2. But let me say this: capitalism doesn't work that well either.
3. Communists tend to hide the crimes commited in the name of its ideology.
4. Critical to foundation of capitalism was the brutality of colonialism: destruction, rape, enslavement, racism, steal of the third world. Capitalist freaks ignore this.
5. Horowitz and Beck are nuts. A fanatic marxist goes fanatic capitalist seeing a democratic conspiracy everywhere;Beck...well is Beck!
@redword2007 I did some googling: you can find many accounts of those massive deaths, but I could'n fine any of a leader declaring "I didn't kill those people" if that makes any difference to you. However, communists aren't the only ones to provoke massive deaths. There's the fascists like Hitler, there's the tribes in Africa, there's all great historical conquerors, there's the early european inmigrants and conquerors wiping out natives in America (North and South) by the thousands
Stalin used to edit pictures to omit those who he purged. Notice how Yezhov infamously disappears from that one photo? What about the Katyn Massacre? Hiding all those dead Poles in mass graves.
It would be better if you just kept quiet and stopped making an arse of yourself like typical Communists - stuck in the past, with no real solutions - do.
Now watch as you give me some regurgitated revisionist bullshit about how "capitalism is more evil" and so on.
@acoronab then u should know vietnam which is communist itself overthrow that regime.he was know communist even if he claims to be.cambodians hailed & supported vietnamese invlovement & liberation of cambodia under pol pot by viet armed forces.look up videos on utube & wiki.have nice day.
@magomezga Steal of the third world? The world is governed by force, no country is the rightful owner of land so no such thing as "stealing". Its conquest a fact of life committed by most countries. Mongols, Comanches, Spaniards all the same. Rape? You mean the rape of civies in WWII by all sides (mostly by the USSR)? Beck is nuts, which we can all agree. Its not perfect, but it still beats communism.
Well OK, if this video was called "Why it is good to breathe" it still would be impossible to take it seriously on the grounds that it has got Glenn Beck in it!
@Povixas These fat ugly FUCKs Kim ISung Ill and Kim Jong Ill are DEAD!!
Finally!
My sincere gratitude goes to our American friends. Thanks to them, the South Koreans enjoy capitalist FREEDOM and PROSPERITY, while thier NKorean compatriots have to suffer endlessly in COMMUNIST CONCENTRATION CAMP/SHITHOLE.
May Kim Jong Il/Sung Il BURN in HELL, where they belong!
Oh, and this is mainly why Marxism doesn't work: Because without the necessary technology to reach post-scarcity, and without a benevolent state, it's a pipe dream! Sadly, The Zeitgeist Movement is disliked by some Marxists, because it ignores "class conflict" -- irrelevant b/c if Marx is right, is a manifestation of CAPITALISM, which TZM is not. However, TZM could easily fail if the people who build the society are tyrants and make the machines enslave humans. Sounds far-fetched, but possible.
@amamerc Seriously... this is just insanity. When you got to the tyrants making machines to enslave humans ... I realised this was some Alex Jones type nonsense. Sorry I engaged.
@sighedeffects Let me quote David Mamet: "Let’s give them more power, because I pulled the lever and I got a pellet. It’s a racist country, America is an exploiter. Capitalism is bad. Israel is corrupt." I will add: Alex Jones is a conspiracy theorist nut. The Left is good. The Right is bad. The Rule of Law is whatever the bad conservatives says it means. Only peer-review journals matter. Etc. Etc. I was taught this all throughout school. I've heard it all. I reject it all.
Even so, anyone who's actually ever read Marx understands that socialism wasnt suppose to arise out of a backwards nation such as Russia- it is suppose to begin in advanced capitalist nations which Russia and China were not so they industrialized under some strange form of "socialism" that Marx/Engels would have never endorsed - it was indeed also authoritarian/undemocratic and backwards. A stain on the face of what the actual goal is (democratic worker control of industry and thus society).
@TheShmuil no, South Vietnam call us to come in and help them stop the invading North Vietmanese Communists, once we left the South, the North came in and slaughtered alot of people in the South.
@Gloomshadow100 The North wanted independence. Ho Chi Minh was so inspired by the US Constitution that he went to Europe and discovered Marx and felt that was the best way to chase out the colonial oppression faced by the French and the Diem regime. The Capitalist regime in the South was not really any better... revisionist history ignores the travesty of Diem and focuses on the damages of the War with the North. US backed Capitalists in South Vietnam were responsible for just as much horror.
@sighedeffects you cant win a war without Killing people and causing horror.. thats the nature of combat. There really is no "right or wrong" in any of that. What matters is if it serves a greater good or not.
And in that case... the war the North fought was to liberate their country from oppressors. What is a greater good than that? (The sad thing is that we were killing them to fight them for the same thing they wanted, supposedly.)
@sighedeffects "oppression" usually doesnt exist, most of the time its just a word used to justify killing an enemy so you can take power yourself. Example: North Korea is highly oppressive but its Kim Jong Il doing all of the oppression but in the name of freeing the DPRK from US oppression. But would you rather be oppressed by the US or the DPRK? Id take the US over the DPRK any day. Dont let words and ideas overpower reality.
@Gloomshadow100 Maybe you misunderstood my comment or don't understand the nature of the Vietnam conflict. Being colonised by France was a form of oppression. Wanting to be independent of all foreign invaders is a form of liberation. Being forced to follow a foreign government's policy is a form of oppression.
Diem was American supported, but a Vietnamese ruler and was quite harsh on his people.
Words do not overpower reality for me... i am just stating what happened as cause and effect.
@sighedeffects the French were oppressing them less then either one of those Governments though. They would have been better off as a colony than independant
@Gloomshadow100 Oh, Did I mention that I am coming to colonise your house next week? Also, I need 75% of your income. It's ok, I'm much nicer than Amamerc.
@sighedeffects only if you actually have the power to take it, Im heavily armed and with combat experience, if you can take it from me , then its yours... I dont need laws to protect me. Im stronger than that.
@Gloomshadow100 Oh, I'm sorry. Did I give you the impression I was coming alone? If you want to fight against me and the 250 mercenaries I hired from XE services, go ahead, be a terrorist. I also got a UN sanction, so... whomever you get to help you, we will have to "liberate" from you... because they will be much better under my oppression than under you. (To keep the allegory going, if you state that you can get more able bodied people, I'll just continue to outpace whatever you have... )
Ok, to all LEFTIST DIMWITS, I give you € 1.000.000 to each of you if you are able to explain by using ARGUMENTS and FACTS, how communism can be realised
1) WITHOUT ending up in POVERTY; INEFFICIENCY, FAMINES, but PROSPERITY
2) WITHOUT ending up in DICTATORSHIPS; UN-FREEDOM, FORCE, TERROR, but FREEDOM
I give you another € 100.000, if you are able to name me ONE EXAMPLE where socialism/communism ever worked!!!
@joaquinveyron Yugoslavia. Before it was destroyed by capitalism. Cuba. Denmark (although not communist has always frequently had many communist members in their government)
Although i dont believe China is a 'true' communist country, for arguments sake i'll agree that it is, and look at its economy. Who will bail out Europe? China.
The only reason why Yugolandia was not a COMPLETE SHITHOLE, is because Tito oriented his foreign policy towards the WEST, allow the market economy to a certain degree and fostered tourism from abroad (the WEST), which brought him hard Western currency :-)
@joaquinveyron Regardless, you asked for one example and i gave you several. I'm Yugoslavian so watch your words. It was one of the only countries in Europe which had a license to produce tanks and other military equipment therefore making it one of few powerful economys in europe at that time, furthermore the people were happy under communism, what could possibly be more important than that.
Dimwit, what China made successful for the past 30 years were NEOLIBERAL reforms, sth. communists/letftist IDIOTS would turn their back in their grave for:
@joaquinveyron "communism" is a MYTH, the writings are so vauge you can make anything seem like Communism. The ultimate goal is some kind of Stateless world run at a local level with the people owning the means of produciton and doing any job they want to do bla bla bla.. we had that already, we called it "The Wild West", a concept that was very alien to Europhags at that time.. Marx is totally outdated and quasi-relgious in nature. Its a waste of time..
@joaquinveyron everything those commie writers talked about can be spun into anything else, its so vauge that the Commie writings dont really mean anything.. just like all the other relgions of the world.
@joaquinveyron Marx was talking about taking the means of produciton away from the Royal and Ruling class of Europe and giving it to the "people".. We did that! "People" owned the US means of produciton, not Royals. Everyone was equal in the US, each according to his ability and his need. Americans were all the same class: "citizen". The economy was "planned" is was planned to be "open" by The People each to his own.
@joaquinveyron Communism does not translate into American culture..if attempted here, we would just end up returning the core of American culture, basically the "Wild West"
@MajikMengo Why do you call it "insulting", if I call people what they are: stupid?? :-)
If those people really started to look at FACTS and ARGUMENTS and wouldnt refuse to take a look at reality, I certainly wouldn t do what you call "insulting" :-)
wrong. if you really understood and were willing discus both of these ideas on an intellectual level you wouldn't resort to verbally attacking your opponents.
@MajikMengo Hahahah, you really use the word "intellectual" here?? :-)
Ok, since you are such a blossoming intellectucal, feel free to explain by using ARGUMENTS how communism is possible
WITHOUT
1) DICTATORSHIPS, FORCE; VIOLENCE; but in FEEDOM
2) POVERTY; FAMINES; INEFFICIENCIES, but PROSPERITY.
I pay you € 1.000.000 if you can this ... and another € 100.000, if you are able to name JUST ONE EXAMPLE where communism/socialism/leftish polcies EVER WORKED.
@joaquinveyron Yes "shithole" brilliant argument you put forward there mate. Have you been to any of those countries? And Yugoslavia: now broken up into smaller states and slowly recovering, nowhere near as much debt as main European countries and slowly starting to build up economic prosperity again through things such as tourism and mixed exports
Dimwit, since when do I need to have been in a country to have FACTS about the economic and political fundamentals of a country??? Have you ever been to Africa=??? Just asking before you probably will tell me soon that people are dying tehre and shit.
Dimwit, and to answer your questions: yes, I know China, CUba and even Yugolandia.
@krompir95 "Have you been to any of those countries?"
Dimwit, since when do I need to have been in a country to have FACTS about the economic and political fundamentals of a country??? Have you ever been to Africa=??? Just asking before you probably will tell me soon that people are dying tehre and shit.
Dimwit, and to answer your questions: yes, I know China, CUba and even Yugolandia.
@joaquinveyron thats my personal opinion, and im not a leading Marxist am i? The current government in China is officially communist, and my example was its economy. What i do agree with 100% is that it has a communist labor force which produces like any other communist country would and in turn granted it its economic power. Dont talk to me about wages or reforms. Im talking pure economics caused by communism
You are referring to countries like Greece, Spain, Portugal who are inundated by DEBTS because they did what all socialistic countries did/do: increase pubklich spending to a point of NO RETURN. So what do you want to say?? That irresponsible public spending leads to a crisis?? Whats the NEWS???
You are saying that Democrats use race to make people think we are helping them. The republicans used Clarence Thomas the exact way Horowitz is describing the way the left use race, except he was referring to children. Also, the reason why old people don't get as much health care money is because they shouldn't have to have a prolonged life when they are very sick and dying. This was ridiculous
Lmfao maybe if you morons who wrote the top comments and the retards who liked them watched for more than 5 seconds, you'll see that this guys was a former Communist and 60's radical. Obviously Communism doesn't work if a former Communist supporter is telling you it doesn't. It's not rocket science that Communism doesn't work, that's why 98% of the world doesn't use it. You morons need to wake up,
LOL fox's propaganda war... In world war 2 Russia destroyed the Nazi war machine and in doing so it lost 70% of its industry. Communism is that efficient that it brought itself to be a superpower within 10 years after this total destruction and still maintained to keep it's people happy!
I Support a "Republic Russia" with out the COMMUNISM. If you love communism so much go live in America and pay ur taxes and watch all the niggers on welfare receive Free FOOD STAMPS & MONEY FOR RENT from your taxes .. then you will understand Communism. The basic cycle of political movement is (REVOLUTION > DEMOCRACY/REPUBLIC > FASCISM > COMMUNISM > ANARCHY/REVOLUTION >) PRESERVE LIBERTY DEFEND YOU'RE REPUBLIC
The plan of "containment" was to isolate the soviet union from the resources necessary to facilitate actual advanced communism. The only reason the US thrived was because of WW2. All the competition was knocked out and out of the ashes the USA rose like a phoenix....well, I have bad news, the US is hanging onto that hegemony by a string. Global capitalism is hanging on by a string (by the power of the US military actually). We're going to see big changes over the next decade or so. Socialism.
@crud4 Communist adherents tend to believe in abstract theories, but underestimate the corrupting effects of power. No matter if the system is communist, fascist or religious: It's arrogant "Alpha animals" believing to own the truth who usurp power and ban independent press and judiciary, creating a climate of intimidation. People who cannot be legally removed from power will stick to it by all means and violently suppress any opposition - that's human nature, Communism does not change it
Communism has never existed. The Russian experiment was sabotaged from day one by fascists then capitalists post WW2. If the US didn't force the USSR to spend so much time on military, time, resources and energy which could have been spent on production of goods, then the story would have turned out different. If communism doesn't have a chance to arise then why are capitalists so afraid of it? Having that said, again, actual communism has never existed. The point of the cold war was to stop it.
@crud4 Oh so capitalism has existed and exist but communism didn't ahahahahahahahahaha you don't know what this things are, you don't know the concepts which are very simple, communism is equal gain for everybody economically speaking a base of standart of living, no richs because whatever reason, the rest of the "Russian experiment" was based on Lenin marxist interpretation, and the Russian goverment was as bad as the U.S is today, no more excuses.
@crazy3d Even the USSR knew they weren't communist- the communist stage is when the state is abolished, what existed in Russia was "state socialism" which I dont support anyway. Besides, Marx always wrote "socialism" in one country is impossible just as capitalism in one isolated country is also impossible (especially when the western powers sabotaged USSR's efforts to set up trade/commerce with other nations- ever heard of "containment"?
@crud4 Marx said that Capitalism can exist in communism because communism relies on a bureaucratic authority(bolsheviks in Russia) to have centralized authority and tell the masses what to do. The bureaucratic class is like the queen bee while everyone else is the worker bee. if you say communism exists only without a leader, then that is impossible because people need some sort of security to know that things are working or not. Failure to be able to do this results in a failure in society.
@jg33z Where did Marx claim that a bureaucratic class was necessary to rule a classless society? (I don't even know how that is possible... Marxist Communism is a state in which there is no more class distinction. How can there be a ruling class?)
@sighedeffects First stage of communism is socialism. "The proletariat will use its political supremacy to wrest, by degree, all capital from the bourgeoisie, to centralise all instruments of production in the hands of the State, i.e., of the proletariat organised as the ruling class; and to increase the total productive forces as rapidly as possible."
"[Communists] openly declare that their ends can be attained only by the forcible overthrow of all existing social conditions."
@amamerc "Crude communism “appears in a double form; the domination of material property looms so large that it aims to destroy everything which is incapable of being possessed by everyone as private property. It wishes to eliminate talent, etc., by force . . . The role of worker is not abolished but extended to all men.. . . This communism, which negates the personality of man in every sphere is . . . Universal envy setting itself up as a power, is only camouflaged form of cupidity."
"Socialism is the visionary younger brother of an almost decrepit despotism . . . thus its efforts are reactionary in the deepest sense. For it desires an abundance of executive power, as only despotism has ever had; indeed, it outdoes everything in the past by striving for the downright destruction of the individual, who it sees as an unauthorized luxury of nature, and who it intends to improve into a useful organ of the community."
@amamerc Marx was not a prophet... he was a political-social historian. He was wrong about a number of things... he even admitted as much several times... as have many Marxists. Lukács retracted a majority of his earlier works later in his life.
Communism can only be attained by the responsible & willful choice of the vast majority of citizens to opt-out of the incompatible existing social conditions (not all social conditions are necessarily "at odds" with communism, especially not communism in a directly democratic frame with local community control of governance), and in doing so sunder the power behind those conditions & associated norms.
It's also false that socialism MUST lead to anything.
@LiberalAven I was never cynical: the quotes speak for themselves. The workability of communism is economic: "The first direct attempts of the proletariat to attain its own ends, made in times of universal excitement . . . necessarily failed, owing to the then undeveloped state of the proletariat, as well as to the absence of the economic conditions for its emancipation, conditions that had yet to be produced, and could be produced by the impending bourgeois epoch alone."
@amamerc And, yes, pluralism and tolerance are the key to the establishment of communism, too. And yes, religion can be tolerant (as you may have implied): /watch?v=Es129f2xM2E
Hitherto, communist states have attempted to establish themselves through socialism; unless you're talking about Pol Pot's Cambodia or something, which was a nightmare, that need not be repeated.
Sadly, however, most communist states have been either examples of crude communism or totalitarian socialism.
@amamerc Socialism is not Marxist Communism/Marxism, first of all. Second, the concept you quoted just states that the working class will seize power from the elite/working class and take over control... it does not necessarily mean they will become a bureaucratic class... and that is on the path to Marxism. But you claimed that Marx claimed that communism relies on bureaucratic authority and establishes a bureaucratic class... when Communism is the absence of class according to Marx.
@sighedeffects Dimwit, of course, you would like to have my 1 MILLION CAPITALISTIC EUROS, but you would need come up with ARGUMENTS that none of you leftish PRICKS ever had.
@joaquinveyron First things first... of course I'd like a million Euros. I may be a Marxist, but only because I see exploitation and class as the root of most political and social conflict and I do believe that, one day, society may evolve into one in which this conflict is minimised. This does not mean I do not live in a Capitalistic society and would not benefit from a Million Euros (especially since that would be like $1.4.
As far as arguments, do you even listen to any Marxist arguments?
@joaquinveyron You show here your inability to fully grasp the concept of Marxism. It is not the belief that some people do not do things better than others, simply that we all have to live together and should find the best ways to do it. Do you really believe that, today, intelligence and hard work are the only things that make people wealthy and/or successful? You don't believe there are stupid and lazy rich people? Really?
@sighedeffects "You show here your inability to fully grasp the concept of Marxism."
HaHahahahahah ... then of course, let us see your "intelligence" and tell us what Marx, the fool, never even though of, how communism/socialism EVER may work at all WITHOUT POVERTY, FAMINES, TERROR, DICTATORSHIPS.
I already told you that I even would pay 1 MILLION EUROS for your ARGUMENTS.
Hmm, strange, how come that it is ALWAYS THIS SILENT, when you talk to leftist dimwits like you??? :-) :-)
@sighedeffects "You don't believe there are stupid and lazy rich people? Really?"
Of there are. What is your point??? That there are dumb, stupid people out there??? Look at you. You are on of them.
And what has this do withe the NIGHTMARES communists/socialists created?? Your point ís that we should go for that NIGHMARE because there are fat, lazy people out there??? What are you?? Are a moron??
@sighedeffects "have read (and understand) Lenin, Lukåcs, Gramsci, Marcuse, Parenti, Foucault, and some Derrida:"
DImwit, all thoe fucks like ALL LEFTIST IMBECILES who keep on babbling in a pseudo-intellectual way about things they dont understand, were ALSO NOT ABLE To answer my 1 MILLION EURO-question. In particular Lenin, was the first to prove that communism ONLY can end in POVERTY, TERROR and DICTATORSHIPS.
@sighedeffects "it does not necessarily mean they will become a bureaucratic class.."
No, of couuuuuuuuuuuurse not ...
Dimwit, does any of you COMMIE SUCKERS ever START to THINK for a SECOND???
What happens if there is not a communist dictatorship that controls everybodys life???
Exactly, then we live in a FREE WORLD, which necessarily RESULTS in UNEQUALITY, because men ARE NOT EQUAL. Even a BRAINMAPUTATED LEFTISH MONKEY should be able to get a grasp of that, fool!
@joaquinveyron So, you think Germany, Sweden and the UK are communist dictatorships? They deploy many Leftist political and economic philosophies. Germany is quite interesting, since they have the most stringent labour regulations and taxation and still show tremendous GDP growth throughout the recession. Likewise, China is not doing all that poorly economically.
I still do not understand the need for all the name calling and hatred you feel necessary to prove your ill-advised points.
@joaquinveyron So, you think Germany, Sweden and the UK are communist dictatorships? They deploy many Leftist political and economic philosophies. Germany is quite interesting, since they have the most stringent labour regulations and taxation and still show tremendous GDP growth throughout the recession. Likewise, China is not doing all that poorly economically.
I still do not understand the need for all the name calling and hatred you feel necessary to prove your ill-advised points.
@joaquinveyron So, you think Germany, Sweden and the UK are communist dictatorships? They deploy many Leftist political and economic philosophies. Germany is quite interesting, since they have the most stringent labour regulations and taxation and still show tremendous GDP growth throughout the recession. Likewise, China is not doing all that poorly economically.
I still do not understand the need for all the name calling and hatred you feel necessary to prove your ill-advised points.
@sighedeffects Marx, Communist Manifesto, Chapter 2: "The proletariat will use its political supremacy to wrest, by degree, all capital from the bourgeoisie, to centralise all instruments of production in the hands of the State, i.e., of the proletariat organised as the ruling class; and to increase the total productive forces as rapidly as possible."
That is, by definition, socialism. You can definitely say that Marxism can be peaceful, but I'm tired of it.
@amamerc Why am I? Because the slaughter of MILLIONS was inspired thanks to Marxism. Doesn't matter if they didn't implement Marxism properly. Capitalism, moreover, naturally evolves -- effortlessly. Period. Doesn't mean it's the best, but it's better than this (same source as above):
"Of course, in the beginning, this cannot be effected except by means of DESPOTIC inroads on the rights of property, and on the conditions of bourgeois production."
@amamerc Millions have been slaughtered in the name of religion, as well. Many millions were murdered under the guise of nationalism/fascism. Millions have been slaughtered and brutalised by Capitalism... what does that prove? That people will use any ideology to commit atrocities? I can agree with that.
Your claim that "[C]apitalism...evolves naturally" is an unproven statement that is debated among scholars constantly. Do you really think a 300 character comment is going to be the end?
@sighedeffects Capitalism has increased the standard of living many times over. Capitalism is implied in the right to private property. No one -- not anyone -- has a legitimate right to infringe on my person or my property: they can only do so through violence and complete disregard for the rule of law and Constitution.
Second, Marxism was supposed to be benevolent but ended up being the most brutal and anti-human political movement of the 20th century.
@amamerc Second, Religion is unnecessary and could be replaced by philosophy, but people aren't there yet as a culture, or perhaps even in intelligence -- I have no way of knowing.
Third, the idea of laissez faire capitalism is young. And guess what? It's ATTACKED constantly like the plague, even though it has -- irrefutably -- increased everyone's standard of living in the West. Instead of letting capitalism run its course, it has been violently assaulted.
@amamerc Fourth, socialism by the current government is failing, and will continue to fail. You don't like socialism? Good. Great. Neither do I.
Fifth, do I want to see communism fail? No.
But this is what I don't want: the destruction of the family, the destruction of idealism in favor of dialectical materialism, the destruction of the middle class, etc.
It doesn't matter if Marxism doesn't entail that -- or you don't -- but many people in the US want those things to happen.
@amamerc Finally, the current conservative movement is a disgrace, and any Marxist who advocates violence, or believes that he's so high and mighty as to demand that other people have their entire way of life changed over night because of self-righteousness and dogma, is a disgrace.
You don't have to be that way, but like the fanatics of the right, fanatics on the left obliterate an ideology's truth by co-opting it. This is why politics is so nasty.
@amamerc Stating that Capitalism increased living standards above what another system may have increased is counter-factual. It's not even worthy of debate.
"Private property" is a relatively new concept. We can trace the origin of private property. I think it was Benedetto Croce that first discussed this topic, but I'm not exactly sure, it's not my area of expertise. (Note that personal property is not private property.)
What if the rule of law infringes on your person or property?
@amamerc "Marxism was supposed to be benevolent but ended up being the most brutal and anti-human political movement of the 20th century."
This is an opinion and, at best, a normative statement. You need to present a substantial amount of evidence to support this claim. Personally, I doubt I could be swayed to support it in a thread of comments. Perhaps if you wrote an article for the American Journal of Political Science and have it peer reviewed, I might be inclined to debate the topic.
@amamerc " No one -- not anyone -- has a legitimate right to infringe on my person or my property:"
What if someone has a legitimate claim to this property? What if your property, or even your person, exist only because of the abuse of another's property or person? Or did you create all of your property by yourself from natural resources that no one else could possibly lay claim to? This is the only way I will accept your statement as infallible.
@amamerc Well, I'm tired of people making misinformed statements about things they know little about. Especially when they pick and choose statements by authors without using context, like everything is a GOP debate. Personally, I need substantive statements, especially with all these normative claims. I'm really tired of having to explain the things that cost me many years (and a lot of resources) to learn when they don't even appreciate it.
@amamerc The Communist Manifesto isn't even comprehensive. Try reading The 18th Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte and the first part of Das Kapital.
It is pretty much accepted in Marxist theory that one can claim there are two different forms of Marxism, where he changes his analysis. And that was all Marx espoused – analysis.
@sighedeffects "The Communist Manifesto isn't even comprehensive"
Exactly, dimwit. What is comprehensive at all in Marxist "theory"?? -- Exactly: NOTHING.
If you are looking for explicit political goals/agenda of Marx, then you have to look somehwhere else anyhow. But a veeeeeeeeeeery "intelligent" guy certainly will not that, huh ? :-) :_9
HAHAHAHA
LEFTISTS are such PATHETIC LOSERS. Cant believe it.
@amamerc As far as what Communists openly declare... I can cite several examples of Capitalists that openly declare that, only through the oppression and elimination of non-Whites will Capitalism be fully realised.
Just because some Communist parties declare this does not mean they all do the same. Many of the members of the Frankfurt School were openly critical of Lenin and the Bolshevik Revolution.
@joaquinveyron How many years of study have you dedicated to this very topic? If it is less then six, please stop with the constant disparaging remarks about not thinking about the topics at hand. Starting a phrase with "badabee, badaboo" and then calling people imbeciles is pretty counter-intuitive, don't ya think?
After you have read (and understand) Lenin, Lukåcs, Gramsci, Marcuse, Parenti, Foucault, and some Derrida: please come back with an educated response on the topic.
@joaquinveyron I tend to be silent while sleeping. I also tend not to be typing on YT when I'm not at the computer. Funny how that works.
How did you make a fool out of me? I must have missed it. Was I the one that stated I would not even read the very things I was condemning? Oh. You did that. Never mind.
Or am I the fool because I have no need to use caps lock and call names to make a point? I came back with a bit of an argument and you had no substance to respond with, so... w/e
hahahahahahahaha keep trying
natxomekaniko 3 days ago
An equitable segregation of finite resources & capital usually controlled by an autocratic maniac.
ukipwarrior 6 days ago
Jdm86s13
I can see whare your comeing frum and i respect that but no ttue communist nation has sprung up they used communist ideas but they werent true becouse some head of state getts currupt down the road it may not be the first one but thats why the world has never exsperienced true communisum
EASYE1996 3 weeks ago
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Arguments for and against Communism/Socialism often get very heated and off-point. There does not need to be any argument - all that is needed to say is two simple words: Free Will. For the people who believe in Communism/Socialism because they genuinely want to help people - trust me, I hear you and I hear your argument, but... free will; it is an innate quality and characteristic that cannot be shut off and every single human has it. As long as there is free will, Communism cant work.
jdm89s13 4 weeks ago
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Arguments for and against Communism/Socialism often get very heated and off-point. There does not need to be any argument - all that is needed to say is two simple words: Free Will. For the people who believe in Communism/Socialism because they genuinely want to help people - trust me, I hear you and I hear your argument, but... free will; it is an innate quality and characteristic that cannot be shut off and every single human has it. As long as there is free will, Communism cant work.
jdm89s13 4 weeks ago
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Arguments for and against Communism/Socialism often get very heated and off-point. There does not need to be any argument - all that is needed to say is two simple words: Free Will. For the people who believe in Communism/Socialism because they genuinely want to help people - trust me, I hear you and I hear your argument, but... free will; it is an innate quality and characteristic that cannot be shut off and every single human has it. As long as there is free will, Communism cant work.
jdm89s13 4 weeks ago
@magomezga Capitalism as we know it today didn't formulate until the nineteenth century after Adam Smith's "Wealth of Nations." The US, which had no colonies, became an economic super power because of capitalism AFTER the abolition of slavery. Yes they're nuts. We can agree.
JasonCIAHudson 1 month ago
this is a good conversation ignore the fox news title a listen you arogent fuck
ab5441 1 month ago
The hell is this? All I hear is crap. Not suprised however, being foxnews.
Falloutcookingshow 1 month ago
HA yes please take information about communism on one of the most conservative corporate news station in the world only funded by crazed money hogging pigsXD
22MRMafia 1 month ago
I never heard so much bullshit in a single video...sorry glenn beck but as John Adams said, "facts are stubborn things".
asfrmaster2011 1 month ago
If repuks are so great why do inner city reject them ?
mba2ceo 1 month ago
gloomshadow100 you must play too much call of duty. they stoped using napalm after vietnam
Stunneh 1 month ago
1. I agree that communism doesn't work that well.
2. But let me say this: capitalism doesn't work that well either.
3. Communists tend to hide the crimes commited in the name of its ideology.
4. Critical to foundation of capitalism was the brutality of colonialism: destruction, rape, enslavement, racism, steal of the third world. Capitalist freaks ignore this.
5. Horowitz and Beck are nuts. A fanatic marxist goes fanatic capitalist seeing a democratic conspiracy everywhere;Beck...well is Beck!
magomezga 1 month ago 2
@magomezga
Do you have any examples of communists 'hiding crimes'?
redword2007 1 month ago
@redword2007 I did some googling: you can find many accounts of those massive deaths, but I could'n fine any of a leader declaring "I didn't kill those people" if that makes any difference to you. However, communists aren't the only ones to provoke massive deaths. There's the fascists like Hitler, there's the tribes in Africa, there's all great historical conquerors, there's the early european inmigrants and conquerors wiping out natives in America (North and South) by the thousands
acoronab 1 month ago
@acoronab
Yes, but I asked if you can you give me just one example of communists hiding crimes?
redword2007 1 month ago
@redword2007 look up Pol_Pot in Wikipedia
acoronab 1 month ago
@acoronab
Still no examples of communists hiding crimes. It would be better if you just kept quiet and stopped making an arse of yourself.
redword2007 1 month ago
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@redword2007
Stalin used to edit pictures to omit those who he purged. Notice how Yezhov infamously disappears from that one photo? What about the Katyn Massacre? Hiding all those dead Poles in mass graves.
It would be better if you just kept quiet and stopped making an arse of yourself like typical Communists - stuck in the past, with no real solutions - do.
Now watch as you give me some regurgitated revisionist bullshit about how "capitalism is more evil" and so on.
TheCanadianPrairies 1 month ago
@acoronab then u should know vietnam which is communist itself overthrow that regime.he was know communist even if he claims to be.cambodians hailed & supported vietnamese invlovement & liberation of cambodia under pol pot by viet armed forces.look up videos on utube & wiki.have nice day.
azandhind4eva 1 month ago
@magomezga Steal of the third world? The world is governed by force, no country is the rightful owner of land so no such thing as "stealing". Its conquest a fact of life committed by most countries. Mongols, Comanches, Spaniards all the same. Rape? You mean the rape of civies in WWII by all sides (mostly by the USSR)? Beck is nuts, which we can all agree. Its not perfect, but it still beats communism.
Brian91506 1 month ago
Your problem is fox news. The real reason communism does not work is people are greedy.
MonsterWords 1 month ago
Russia was not was Communism. Capitalism is a failure that benefits the privileged.
bjarczyk 2 months ago 6
@bjarczyk Communism is the ideology which impoverishes the masses.
ukipwarrior 6 days ago 4
@ukipwarrior Define communism.
bjarczyk 6 days ago
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Well OK, if this video was called "Why it is good to breathe" it still would be impossible to take it seriously on the grounds that it has got Glenn Beck in it!
Dumbass prankster.
Professicchio 2 months ago
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Professicchio 2 months ago
Lol glen beck may not look like it, but he is a very smart man : )
LasagnaIsGood 2 months ago
Typical republican nutcase
Povixas 2 months ago
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@Povixas These fat ugly FUCKs Kim ISung Ill and Kim Jong Ill are DEAD!!
Finally!
My sincere gratitude goes to our American friends. Thanks to them, the South Koreans enjoy capitalist FREEDOM and PROSPERITY, while thier NKorean compatriots have to suffer endlessly in COMMUNIST CONCENTRATION CAMP/SHITHOLE.
May Kim Jong Il/Sung Il BURN in HELL, where they belong!
Only a dead commie is a good commie!
joaquinveyron 2 months ago
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The ideology marxism is very similar to that of a rapist, because it is the belief of force and violence over others.
simontimon2 2 months ago
Oh, and this is mainly why Marxism doesn't work: Because without the necessary technology to reach post-scarcity, and without a benevolent state, it's a pipe dream! Sadly, The Zeitgeist Movement is disliked by some Marxists, because it ignores "class conflict" -- irrelevant b/c if Marx is right, is a manifestation of CAPITALISM, which TZM is not. However, TZM could easily fail if the people who build the society are tyrants and make the machines enslave humans. Sounds far-fetched, but possible.
amamerc 2 months ago
@amamerc Seriously... this is just insanity. When you got to the tyrants making machines to enslave humans ... I realised this was some Alex Jones type nonsense. Sorry I engaged.
sighedeffects 2 months ago
@sighedeffects Let me quote David Mamet: "Let’s give them more power, because I pulled the lever and I got a pellet. It’s a racist country, America is an exploiter. Capitalism is bad. Israel is corrupt." I will add: Alex Jones is a conspiracy theorist nut. The Left is good. The Right is bad. The Rule of Law is whatever the bad conservatives says it means. Only peer-review journals matter. Etc. Etc. I was taught this all throughout school. I've heard it all. I reject it all.
amamerc 2 months ago
Marx said socialism was a necessary prerequisite to the second stage of communism, after which the state has withered away:
5. Centralisation of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.
6. Centralisation of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State.
7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State
All 3 (among others) are socialist plans. The evidence is overwhelming.
amamerc 2 months ago
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"Communism is theoretically a Utopian belief that may be true for some social group insects. In human term, it is practically impossible."
Chan Chau Taow (1970- )
taow222328 2 months ago
Even so, anyone who's actually ever read Marx understands that socialism wasnt suppose to arise out of a backwards nation such as Russia- it is suppose to begin in advanced capitalist nations which Russia and China were not so they industrialized under some strange form of "socialism" that Marx/Engels would have never endorsed - it was indeed also authoritarian/undemocratic and backwards. A stain on the face of what the actual goal is (democratic worker control of industry and thus society).
crud4 2 months ago 2
@crud4 As shown by many of these other comments, plenty people read Marx. Many of them, evidently, do not understand what they read.
sighedeffects 2 months ago
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"Adopting communist ideology from the west is the only copy-crime the Chinese had committed, with much regrets".
-Chan Chau Taow (1970- )
taow222328 2 months ago
These two are fascism reborn. Utter ignorant cunts
krompir95 3 months ago
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krompir95 3 months ago
Liberals dont oppress minorities.... they oppress white people.
HumpDeBump100 3 months ago
Vietnamese were slaughtered by communist :))))) I thought america invated Vietnam lol
TheShmuil 3 months ago
@TheShmuil no, South Vietnam call us to come in and help them stop the invading North Vietmanese Communists, once we left the South, the North came in and slaughtered alot of people in the South.
Gloomshadow100 3 months ago
@Gloomshadow100 The North wanted independence. Ho Chi Minh was so inspired by the US Constitution that he went to Europe and discovered Marx and felt that was the best way to chase out the colonial oppression faced by the French and the Diem regime. The Capitalist regime in the South was not really any better... revisionist history ignores the travesty of Diem and focuses on the damages of the War with the North. US backed Capitalists in South Vietnam were responsible for just as much horror.
sighedeffects 2 months ago
@sighedeffects you cant win a war without Killing people and causing horror.. thats the nature of combat. There really is no "right or wrong" in any of that. What matters is if it serves a greater good or not.
Gloomshadow100 2 months ago
@Gloomshadow100 What about a War of Position?
And in that case... the war the North fought was to liberate their country from oppressors. What is a greater good than that? (The sad thing is that we were killing them to fight them for the same thing they wanted, supposedly.)
sighedeffects 2 months ago
@sighedeffects "oppression" usually doesnt exist, most of the time its just a word used to justify killing an enemy so you can take power yourself. Example: North Korea is highly oppressive but its Kim Jong Il doing all of the oppression but in the name of freeing the DPRK from US oppression. But would you rather be oppressed by the US or the DPRK? Id take the US over the DPRK any day. Dont let words and ideas overpower reality.
Gloomshadow100 2 months ago
@Gloomshadow100 Maybe you misunderstood my comment or don't understand the nature of the Vietnam conflict. Being colonised by France was a form of oppression. Wanting to be independent of all foreign invaders is a form of liberation. Being forced to follow a foreign government's policy is a form of oppression.
Diem was American supported, but a Vietnamese ruler and was quite harsh on his people.
Words do not overpower reality for me... i am just stating what happened as cause and effect.
sighedeffects 2 months ago
@sighedeffects the French were oppressing them less then either one of those Governments though. They would have been better off as a colony than independant
Gloomshadow100 2 months ago
@Gloomshadow100 Oh, Did I mention that I am coming to colonise your house next week? Also, I need 75% of your income. It's ok, I'm much nicer than Amamerc.
Merry Christmas.
sighedeffects 2 months ago
@sighedeffects only if you actually have the power to take it, Im heavily armed and with combat experience, if you can take it from me , then its yours... I dont need laws to protect me. Im stronger than that.
Gloomshadow100 2 months ago
@Gloomshadow100 Oh, I'm sorry. Did I give you the impression I was coming alone? If you want to fight against me and the 250 mercenaries I hired from XE services, go ahead, be a terrorist. I also got a UN sanction, so... whomever you get to help you, we will have to "liberate" from you... because they will be much better under my oppression than under you. (To keep the allegory going, if you state that you can get more able bodied people, I'll just continue to outpace whatever you have... )
sighedeffects 2 months ago
@sighedeffects Ill just bring the Shin Getter Robo
Gloomshadow100 2 months ago
@Gloomshadow100 Oh... Ho Chi Minh.
sighedeffects 2 months ago
@sighedeffects I'll beat both of you by purchasing your nations bank debts and underhandedly corrupting all your government officials. :D
RedSun875 2 months ago
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@sighedeffects JHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH ... Kim Jong Il is DEAD!!! :-)
Only a dead commie is a good commie .... HAHAAHAHAH. Lets hope he burns in HELL for long where he BELONGS.
joaquinveyron 2 months ago
@Gloomshadow100 And when America and France got involved in Vietnam they slaughtered people... with Napalm which, btw is illegal
krompir95 1 month ago
@krompir95 napalm isnt illegal.. wtf you talking aobut? idiot!
Gloomshadow100 1 month ago
@Gloomshadow100 under international law its banned to use napalm in warfare
krompir95 1 month ago
@krompir95 no it isnt, google "Naplam" you idiot. All countries use naplam..
Gloomshadow100 1 month ago
@Gloomshadow100
"All countries use napalm"! If a first year undergraduate made such a sweeping statement they would get a fail.
Most countries do not use napalm and it is prohibited for use against civilian targets in international law.
redword2007 1 month ago 2
finally someone speaking some sense
gabon8tor 3 months ago
Ok, to all LEFTIST DIMWITS, I give you € 1.000.000 to each of you if you are able to explain by using ARGUMENTS and FACTS, how communism can be realised
1) WITHOUT ending up in POVERTY; INEFFICIENCY, FAMINES, but PROSPERITY
2) WITHOUT ending up in DICTATORSHIPS; UN-FREEDOM, FORCE, TERROR, but FREEDOM
I give you another € 100.000, if you are able to name me ONE EXAMPLE where socialism/communism ever worked!!!
joaquinveyron 3 months ago
@joaquinveyron Yugoslavia. Before it was destroyed by capitalism. Cuba. Denmark (although not communist has always frequently had many communist members in their government)
Although i dont believe China is a 'true' communist country, for arguments sake i'll agree that it is, and look at its economy. Who will bail out Europe? China.
krompir95 3 months ago
@krompir95 Yugoslavia is a good point.
The only reason why Yugolandia was not a COMPLETE SHITHOLE, is because Tito oriented his foreign policy towards the WEST, allow the market economy to a certain degree and fostered tourism from abroad (the WEST), which brought him hard Western currency :-)
joaquinveyron 3 months ago
@joaquinveyron Regardless, you asked for one example and i gave you several. I'm Yugoslavian so watch your words. It was one of the only countries in Europe which had a license to produce tanks and other military equipment therefore making it one of few powerful economys in europe at that time, furthermore the people were happy under communism, what could possibly be more important than that.
krompir95 3 months ago
@krompir95 "the people were happy under communism"
What???? What???? Did you ask the yugos???
joaquinveyron 3 months ago
@joaquinveyron I'm Yugoslavian you fool
krompir95 3 months ago
@krompir95 I am sorry for that. :;-)
joaquinveyron 3 months ago
Dimwit, what China made successful for the past 30 years were NEOLIBERAL reforms, sth. communists/letftist IDIOTS would turn their back in their grave for:
- (relative) free markets
- competition
- private entreprenuership <nd property
- free trade
- investments of foreign CAPITAL
... in one word: CAPITALISM!! DImwit.
joaquinveyron 3 months ago
@joaquinveyron "communism" is a MYTH, the writings are so vauge you can make anything seem like Communism. The ultimate goal is some kind of Stateless world run at a local level with the people owning the means of produciton and doing any job they want to do bla bla bla.. we had that already, we called it "The Wild West", a concept that was very alien to Europhags at that time.. Marx is totally outdated and quasi-relgious in nature. Its a waste of time..
Gloomshadow100 3 months ago in playlist Liked videos
@Gloomshadow100 "he people owning the means of produciton a"
Yeah, WELCOME to CAPITALISM :-)
joaquinveyron 3 months ago
"we had that already, we called it "The Wild West","
Dimwit, the Wild West wasn either of those "ideologies". The WIld West only was period without LAW, aka anarchism.
joaquinveyron 3 months ago
@joaquinveyron That is what Marx described as the last stage of a Commuinsit Revoluiton. "Stateless and uncentralized"
Gloomshadow100 3 months ago
@Gloomshadow100 No, he dindnt
Why do so many IMBECILES such as you always want to babble about things they re so ignorant about???
joaquinveyron 3 months ago
@joaquinveyron everything those commie writers talked about can be spun into anything else, its so vauge that the Commie writings dont really mean anything.. just like all the other relgions of the world.
Gloomshadow100 3 months ago
@Gloomshadow100 "everything those commie writers talked"
Really, dimwit??
Yaaawwwwn ... only that Marx states very explicitely as his political goals and ideas
1) abolution of the market/private property/entreprenuership
2) material equality
3) classless society
4) collectivization/planned economy
Yaaaaaawnn ... are you really this stupid???
joaquinveyron 3 months ago
@joaquinveyron Marx was talking about taking the means of produciton away from the Royal and Ruling class of Europe and giving it to the "people".. We did that! "People" owned the US means of produciton, not Royals. Everyone was equal in the US, each according to his ability and his need. Americans were all the same class: "citizen". The economy was "planned" is was planned to be "open" by The People each to his own.
Gloomshadow100 3 months ago
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@Gloomshadow100 "Marx was talking about taking the means of produciton away from the Royal and Ruling class "
No, he wasnt
I already know that you are as dumb as bred. So my advice to you would be : at least stay with facts.
Marx agitated for taking away the means of rpoduction aways from "evil" private capital owners and entreprenuers.
joaquinveyron 3 months ago
"US, each according to his ability and his need. "
Dimwit, ths US never was about "each according to his need". It is and was about "each according to his MERIT".
Whats the matter with you?? Are you MENTAL???
joaquinveyron 3 months ago
@joaquinveyron Communism does not translate into American culture..if attempted here, we would just end up returning the core of American culture, basically the "Wild West"
Gloomshadow100 3 months ago
@joaquinveyron
you insult more than you do make points
MajikMengo 3 months ago
@MajikMengo Why do you call it "insulting", if I call people what they are: stupid?? :-)
If those people really started to look at FACTS and ARGUMENTS and wouldnt refuse to take a look at reality, I certainly wouldn t do what you call "insulting" :-)
joaquinveyron 3 months ago
@joaquinveyron
wrong. if you really understood and were willing discus both of these ideas on an intellectual level you wouldn't resort to verbally attacking your opponents.
MajikMengo 3 months ago
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@MajikMengo Hahahah, you really use the word "intellectual" here?? :-)
Ok, since you are such a blossoming intellectucal, feel free to explain by using ARGUMENTS how communism is possible
WITHOUT
1) DICTATORSHIPS, FORCE; VIOLENCE; but in FEEDOM
2) POVERTY; FAMINES; INEFFICIENCIES, but PROSPERITY.
I pay you € 1.000.000 if you can this ... and another € 100.000, if you are able to name JUST ONE EXAMPLE where communism/socialism/leftish polcies EVER WORKED.
joaquinveyron 3 months ago
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:-)
joaquinveyron 3 months ago
@joaquinveyron the "people" DID own the means of production.. the means of production was farms and little shops.. people owned those..
Gloomshadow100 3 months ago
@krompir95 "and i gave you several. "
Yeah,
Cuba = COMMUNIST SHITHOLE
China: a COMMUNIST SHITHOLE under MAo and now a prospering nation thanks to CAPITALISM
Yugolandia: well, wjhat is it good for anyhow :-)
joaquinveyron 3 months ago
@joaquinveyron Yes "shithole" brilliant argument you put forward there mate. Have you been to any of those countries? And Yugoslavia: now broken up into smaller states and slowly recovering, nowhere near as much debt as main European countries and slowly starting to build up economic prosperity again through things such as tourism and mixed exports
krompir95 3 months ago
@krompir95 "And Yugoslavia: now broken up into smaller states and"
Yeah, there only happened a lllllliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiitle thing called civil war, dimwit.
joaquinveyron 3 months ago
@joaquinveyron Yes and what does the civil war have to do with communism? It was after Tito died... therefore making your 'argument' irrelevant
krompir95 3 months ago
@krompir95 Dimwit, nothing. Who did say this???
joaquinveyron 3 months ago
"Have you been to any of those countries?"
Dimwit, since when do I need to have been in a country to have FACTS about the economic and political fundamentals of a country??? Have you ever been to Africa=??? Just asking before you probably will tell me soon that people are dying tehre and shit.
Dimwit, and to answer your questions: yes, I know China, CUba and even Yugolandia.
joaquinveyron 3 months ago
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@krompir95 "Have you been to any of those countries?"
Dimwit, since when do I need to have been in a country to have FACTS about the economic and political fundamentals of a country??? Have you ever been to Africa=??? Just asking before you probably will tell me soon that people are dying tehre and shit.
Dimwit, and to answer your questions: yes, I know China, CUba and even Yugolandia.
joaquinveyron 3 months ago
@krompir95 " i dont believe China is a 'true' communist "
Yeah, EXAXCTLY; dimwit.
NEOLIBERAL reforms were applied 30 years ago. Thats why
- Chinese wages/BIP increased by the factor 65!!!
- 450 mio Chinese live in comfort and relative luxury
- 1.3 bn Chinese have enough to EAT AGAIN, after 45 mio. STARVED to DEATH under Mao 1958-62 alone
... the China example is a really good point ..... for CAPITALISM!!!
joaquinveyron 3 months ago
@joaquinveyron thats my personal opinion, and im not a leading Marxist am i? The current government in China is officially communist, and my example was its economy. What i do agree with 100% is that it has a communist labor force which produces like any other communist country would and in turn granted it its economic power. Dont talk to me about wages or reforms. Im talking pure economics caused by communism
krompir95 3 months ago
@krompir95 "Who will bail out Europe?"
You are referring to countries like Greece, Spain, Portugal who are inundated by DEBTS because they did what all socialistic countries did/do: increase pubklich spending to a point of NO RETURN. So what do you want to say?? That irresponsible public spending leads to a crisis?? Whats the NEWS???
joaquinveyron 3 months ago
@krompir95 "Yugoslavia. Before it was destroyed by capitalism. "
What??? When was Yugolandia destroyed by capitalism??? When??
joaquinveyron 3 months ago
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@joaquinveyron When the war broke out you ignorant fool.
krompir95 3 months ago
@joaquinveyron I'd be willing to take your million Euros, but there is no way I can state the explanation in 300 characters or less.
sighedeffects 2 months ago
You are saying that Democrats use race to make people think we are helping them. The republicans used Clarence Thomas the exact way Horowitz is describing the way the left use race, except he was referring to children. Also, the reason why old people don't get as much health care money is because they shouldn't have to have a prolonged life when they are very sick and dying. This was ridiculous
kidslovemycandy 3 months ago
everybody's got to blame somebody...
sure horowitz, blame everything on the left.. why don't the right take a good look at themselves first?
Lottechoco 3 months ago
Lmfao maybe if you morons who wrote the top comments and the retards who liked them watched for more than 5 seconds, you'll see that this guys was a former Communist and 60's radical. Obviously Communism doesn't work if a former Communist supporter is telling you it doesn't. It's not rocket science that Communism doesn't work, that's why 98% of the world doesn't use it. You morons need to wake up,
1l0v3b4s3b4ll 3 months ago
LOL fox's propaganda war... In world war 2 Russia destroyed the Nazi war machine and in doing so it lost 70% of its industry. Communism is that efficient that it brought itself to be a superpower within 10 years after this total destruction and still maintained to keep it's people happy!
ooohpie 4 months ago
BULLSHIT! ho chi minh treated his ppl better then the south fuckers did! mao made china great in his years & gave the poor ppl a voice!
TheDarkArts49 4 months ago
I Support a "Republic Russia" with out the COMMUNISM. If you love communism so much go live in America and pay ur taxes and watch all the niggers on welfare receive Free FOOD STAMPS & MONEY FOR RENT from your taxes .. then you will understand Communism. The basic cycle of political movement is (REVOLUTION > DEMOCRACY/REPUBLIC > FASCISM > COMMUNISM > ANARCHY/REVOLUTION >) PRESERVE LIBERTY DEFEND YOU'RE REPUBLIC
YouTheory 4 months ago
In Russia was never a comunist system, was socialism. I can deduce that Russia capitalism is great!
nerdydandy 7 months ago
@nerdydandy so.....you think Russia, where i was born and raised, capitalism is embraced???
gtardrrgmaer 4 months ago
The plan of "containment" was to isolate the soviet union from the resources necessary to facilitate actual advanced communism. The only reason the US thrived was because of WW2. All the competition was knocked out and out of the ashes the USA rose like a phoenix....well, I have bad news, the US is hanging onto that hegemony by a string. Global capitalism is hanging on by a string (by the power of the US military actually). We're going to see big changes over the next decade or so. Socialism.
crud4 8 months ago
@crud4 Communist adherents tend to believe in abstract theories, but underestimate the corrupting effects of power. No matter if the system is communist, fascist or religious: It's arrogant "Alpha animals" believing to own the truth who usurp power and ban independent press and judiciary, creating a climate of intimidation. People who cannot be legally removed from power will stick to it by all means and violently suppress any opposition - that's human nature, Communism does not change it
eltamin1966 3 months ago
Communism has never existed. The Russian experiment was sabotaged from day one by fascists then capitalists post WW2. If the US didn't force the USSR to spend so much time on military, time, resources and energy which could have been spent on production of goods, then the story would have turned out different. If communism doesn't have a chance to arise then why are capitalists so afraid of it? Having that said, again, actual communism has never existed. The point of the cold war was to stop it.
crud4 8 months ago 2
@crud4 Oh so capitalism has existed and exist but communism didn't ahahahahahahahahaha you don't know what this things are, you don't know the concepts which are very simple, communism is equal gain for everybody economically speaking a base of standart of living, no richs because whatever reason, the rest of the "Russian experiment" was based on Lenin marxist interpretation, and the Russian goverment was as bad as the U.S is today, no more excuses.
crazy3d 2 months ago
@crazy3d Even the USSR knew they weren't communist- the communist stage is when the state is abolished, what existed in Russia was "state socialism" which I dont support anyway. Besides, Marx always wrote "socialism" in one country is impossible just as capitalism in one isolated country is also impossible (especially when the western powers sabotaged USSR's efforts to set up trade/commerce with other nations- ever heard of "containment"?
crud4 2 months ago
@crud4 Marx said that Capitalism can exist in communism because communism relies on a bureaucratic authority(bolsheviks in Russia) to have centralized authority and tell the masses what to do. The bureaucratic class is like the queen bee while everyone else is the worker bee. if you say communism exists only without a leader, then that is impossible because people need some sort of security to know that things are working or not. Failure to be able to do this results in a failure in society.
jg33z 2 months ago
@jg33z People in Spain before the civil war proved otherwise. It was an anarchic free communism that soviet-like "communists" were opposed to.
karlokater 2 months ago
@jg33z Where did Marx claim that a bureaucratic class was necessary to rule a classless society? (I don't even know how that is possible... Marxist Communism is a state in which there is no more class distinction. How can there be a ruling class?)
sighedeffects 2 months ago
@sighedeffects First stage of communism is socialism. "The proletariat will use its political supremacy to wrest, by degree, all capital from the bourgeoisie, to centralise all instruments of production in the hands of the State, i.e., of the proletariat organised as the ruling class; and to increase the total productive forces as rapidly as possible."
"[Communists] openly declare that their ends can be attained only by the forcible overthrow of all existing social conditions."
amamerc 2 months ago
@amamerc "Crude communism “appears in a double form; the domination of material property looms so large that it aims to destroy everything which is incapable of being possessed by everyone as private property. It wishes to eliminate talent, etc., by force . . . The role of worker is not abolished but extended to all men.. . . This communism, which negates the personality of man in every sphere is . . . Universal envy setting itself up as a power, is only camouflaged form of cupidity."
amamerc 2 months ago
@amamerc Nietzsche adds:
"Socialism is the visionary younger brother of an almost decrepit despotism . . . thus its efforts are reactionary in the deepest sense. For it desires an abundance of executive power, as only despotism has ever had; indeed, it outdoes everything in the past by striving for the downright destruction of the individual, who it sees as an unauthorized luxury of nature, and who it intends to improve into a useful organ of the community."
Marx was wrong.
amamerc 2 months ago
@amamerc Marx was not a prophet... he was a political-social historian. He was wrong about a number of things... he even admitted as much several times... as have many Marxists. Lukács retracted a majority of his earlier works later in his life.
sighedeffects 2 months ago
@amamerc Shocker here... MARX WAS WRONG!
Communism can only be attained by the responsible & willful choice of the vast majority of citizens to opt-out of the incompatible existing social conditions (not all social conditions are necessarily "at odds" with communism, especially not communism in a directly democratic frame with local community control of governance), and in doing so sunder the power behind those conditions & associated norms.
It's also false that socialism MUST lead to anything.
LiberalAven 2 months ago
@LiberalAven I was never cynical: the quotes speak for themselves. The workability of communism is economic: "The first direct attempts of the proletariat to attain its own ends, made in times of universal excitement . . . necessarily failed, owing to the then undeveloped state of the proletariat, as well as to the absence of the economic conditions for its emancipation, conditions that had yet to be produced, and could be produced by the impending bourgeois epoch alone."
amamerc 2 months ago
@amamerc And, yes, pluralism and tolerance are the key to the establishment of communism, too. And yes, religion can be tolerant (as you may have implied): /watch?v=Es129f2xM2E
Hitherto, communist states have attempted to establish themselves through socialism; unless you're talking about Pol Pot's Cambodia or something, which was a nightmare, that need not be repeated.
Sadly, however, most communist states have been either examples of crude communism or totalitarian socialism.
amamerc 2 months ago
@amamerc Socialism is not Marxist Communism/Marxism, first of all. Second, the concept you quoted just states that the working class will seize power from the elite/working class and take over control... it does not necessarily mean they will become a bureaucratic class... and that is on the path to Marxism. But you claimed that Marx claimed that communism relies on bureaucratic authority and establishes a bureaucratic class... when Communism is the absence of class according to Marx.
sighedeffects 2 months ago
@sighedeffects Dimwit, of course, you would like to have my 1 MILLION CAPITALISTIC EUROS, but you would need come up with ARGUMENTS that none of you leftish PRICKS ever had.
Get on with it.
joaquinveyron 2 months ago
@joaquinveyron First things first... of course I'd like a million Euros. I may be a Marxist, but only because I see exploitation and class as the root of most political and social conflict and I do believe that, one day, society may evolve into one in which this conflict is minimised. This does not mean I do not live in a Capitalistic society and would not benefit from a Million Euros (especially since that would be like $1.4.
As far as arguments, do you even listen to any Marxist arguments?
sighedeffects 2 months ago
@sighedeffects " when Communism is the absence of class according to Marx."
Yeah, because Marx was as STUPID as all LEFTISH IMBECILES are.
Dimwit, there will always be people who do BETTER than others, becaue they are more intelligent/talented, hardworking, etc.
In therein lies already all the "secret" why communism only can lead to POVERTY; DICTATORSHIPS, TERROR, FAMINES etc.
joaquinveyron 2 months ago
@joaquinveyron You show here your inability to fully grasp the concept of Marxism. It is not the belief that some people do not do things better than others, simply that we all have to live together and should find the best ways to do it. Do you really believe that, today, intelligence and hard work are the only things that make people wealthy and/or successful? You don't believe there are stupid and lazy rich people? Really?
sighedeffects 2 months ago
@sighedeffects "You show here your inability to fully grasp the concept of Marxism."
HaHahahahahah ... then of course, let us see your "intelligence" and tell us what Marx, the fool, never even though of, how communism/socialism EVER may work at all WITHOUT POVERTY, FAMINES, TERROR, DICTATORSHIPS.
I already told you that I even would pay 1 MILLION EUROS for your ARGUMENTS.
Hmm, strange, how come that it is ALWAYS THIS SILENT, when you talk to leftist dimwits like you??? :-) :-)
joaquinveyron 2 months ago
@sighedeffects "You don't believe there are stupid and lazy rich people? Really?"
Of there are. What is your point??? That there are dumb, stupid people out there??? Look at you. You are on of them.
And what has this do withe the NIGHTMARES communists/socialists created?? Your point ís that we should go for that NIGHMARE because there are fat, lazy people out there??? What are you?? Are a moron??
joaquinveyron 2 months ago
@sighedeffects "have read (and understand) Lenin, Lukåcs, Gramsci, Marcuse, Parenti, Foucault, and some Derrida:"
DImwit, all thoe fucks like ALL LEFTIST IMBECILES who keep on babbling in a pseudo-intellectual way about things they dont understand, were ALSO NOT ABLE To answer my 1 MILLION EURO-question. In particular Lenin, was the first to prove that communism ONLY can end in POVERTY, TERROR and DICTATORSHIPS.
joaquinveyron 2 months ago
@sighedeffects "it does not necessarily mean they will become a bureaucratic class.."
No, of couuuuuuuuuuuurse not ...
Dimwit, does any of you COMMIE SUCKERS ever START to THINK for a SECOND???
What happens if there is not a communist dictatorship that controls everybodys life???
Exactly, then we live in a FREE WORLD, which necessarily RESULTS in UNEQUALITY, because men ARE NOT EQUAL. Even a BRAINMAPUTATED LEFTISH MONKEY should be able to get a grasp of that, fool!
joaquinveyron 2 months ago
@joaquinveyron So, you think Germany, Sweden and the UK are communist dictatorships? They deploy many Leftist political and economic philosophies. Germany is quite interesting, since they have the most stringent labour regulations and taxation and still show tremendous GDP growth throughout the recession. Likewise, China is not doing all that poorly economically.
I still do not understand the need for all the name calling and hatred you feel necessary to prove your ill-advised points.
sighedeffects 2 months ago
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@joaquinveyron So, you think Germany, Sweden and the UK are communist dictatorships? They deploy many Leftist political and economic philosophies. Germany is quite interesting, since they have the most stringent labour regulations and taxation and still show tremendous GDP growth throughout the recession. Likewise, China is not doing all that poorly economically.
I still do not understand the need for all the name calling and hatred you feel necessary to prove your ill-advised points.
sighedeffects 2 months ago
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@joaquinveyron So, you think Germany, Sweden and the UK are communist dictatorships? They deploy many Leftist political and economic philosophies. Germany is quite interesting, since they have the most stringent labour regulations and taxation and still show tremendous GDP growth throughout the recession. Likewise, China is not doing all that poorly economically.
I still do not understand the need for all the name calling and hatred you feel necessary to prove your ill-advised points.
sighedeffects 2 months ago
@sighedeffects Marx, Communist Manifesto, Chapter 2: "The proletariat will use its political supremacy to wrest, by degree, all capital from the bourgeoisie, to centralise all instruments of production in the hands of the State, i.e., of the proletariat organised as the ruling class; and to increase the total productive forces as rapidly as possible."
That is, by definition, socialism. You can definitely say that Marxism can be peaceful, but I'm tired of it.
amamerc 2 months ago
@amamerc Why am I? Because the slaughter of MILLIONS was inspired thanks to Marxism. Doesn't matter if they didn't implement Marxism properly. Capitalism, moreover, naturally evolves -- effortlessly. Period. Doesn't mean it's the best, but it's better than this (same source as above):
"Of course, in the beginning, this cannot be effected except by means of DESPOTIC inroads on the rights of property, and on the conditions of bourgeois production."
Marx clearly 100% ADVOCATED violence.
amamerc 2 months ago
@amamerc Millions have been slaughtered in the name of religion, as well. Many millions were murdered under the guise of nationalism/fascism. Millions have been slaughtered and brutalised by Capitalism... what does that prove? That people will use any ideology to commit atrocities? I can agree with that.
Your claim that "[C]apitalism...evolves naturally" is an unproven statement that is debated among scholars constantly. Do you really think a 300 character comment is going to be the end?
sighedeffects 2 months ago
@sighedeffects Capitalism has increased the standard of living many times over. Capitalism is implied in the right to private property. No one -- not anyone -- has a legitimate right to infringe on my person or my property: they can only do so through violence and complete disregard for the rule of law and Constitution.
Second, Marxism was supposed to be benevolent but ended up being the most brutal and anti-human political movement of the 20th century.
amamerc 2 months ago
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@amamerc "but ended up being the most brutal and anti-human political movement of the 20th century"
Exactly. Only that this is not a coincidence, but a logical necessity.
joaquinveyron 2 months ago
@amamerc Second, Religion is unnecessary and could be replaced by philosophy, but people aren't there yet as a culture, or perhaps even in intelligence -- I have no way of knowing.
Third, the idea of laissez faire capitalism is young. And guess what? It's ATTACKED constantly like the plague, even though it has -- irrefutably -- increased everyone's standard of living in the West. Instead of letting capitalism run its course, it has been violently assaulted.
amamerc 2 months ago
@amamerc Fourth, socialism by the current government is failing, and will continue to fail. You don't like socialism? Good. Great. Neither do I.
Fifth, do I want to see communism fail? No.
But this is what I don't want: the destruction of the family, the destruction of idealism in favor of dialectical materialism, the destruction of the middle class, etc.
It doesn't matter if Marxism doesn't entail that -- or you don't -- but many people in the US want those things to happen.
amamerc 2 months ago
@amamerc Finally, the current conservative movement is a disgrace, and any Marxist who advocates violence, or believes that he's so high and mighty as to demand that other people have their entire way of life changed over night because of self-righteousness and dogma, is a disgrace.
You don't have to be that way, but like the fanatics of the right, fanatics on the left obliterate an ideology's truth by co-opting it. This is why politics is so nasty.
amamerc 2 months ago
@amamerc Stating that Capitalism increased living standards above what another system may have increased is counter-factual. It's not even worthy of debate.
"Private property" is a relatively new concept. We can trace the origin of private property. I think it was Benedetto Croce that first discussed this topic, but I'm not exactly sure, it's not my area of expertise. (Note that personal property is not private property.)
What if the rule of law infringes on your person or property?
sighedeffects 2 months ago
@amamerc "Marxism was supposed to be benevolent but ended up being the most brutal and anti-human political movement of the 20th century."
This is an opinion and, at best, a normative statement. You need to present a substantial amount of evidence to support this claim. Personally, I doubt I could be swayed to support it in a thread of comments. Perhaps if you wrote an article for the American Journal of Political Science and have it peer reviewed, I might be inclined to debate the topic.
sighedeffects 2 months ago
@amamerc " No one -- not anyone -- has a legitimate right to infringe on my person or my property:"
What if someone has a legitimate claim to this property? What if your property, or even your person, exist only because of the abuse of another's property or person? Or did you create all of your property by yourself from natural resources that no one else could possibly lay claim to? This is the only way I will accept your statement as infallible.
sighedeffects 2 months ago
@amamerc Well, I'm tired of people making misinformed statements about things they know little about. Especially when they pick and choose statements by authors without using context, like everything is a GOP debate. Personally, I need substantive statements, especially with all these normative claims. I'm really tired of having to explain the things that cost me many years (and a lot of resources) to learn when they don't even appreciate it.
sighedeffects 2 months ago
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@sighedeffects "Well, I'm tired of people making misinformed statements about things they know little about."
WHat an IRONY that a LEFTISH DIMWIT like you say this!! :-) :_)
It is as if a mafiosi complained about someone braking the law! :-)
Hahahahhaha
YOu are a funny guy!! ::-)
joaquinveyron 2 months ago
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@sighedeffects "Personally, I need substantive statements, "
Hahahah, where does all this self-knowledge come from all in a sudden?? :-)
Of course, you need arguments, substantive statements, intelligence ... because you have none of that! :-)
joaquinveyron 2 months ago
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@sighedeffects " that cost me many years (and a lot of resources) to learn when they don't even "
What????
People do NOT appreciate that you are able to read and to cross the street without someone holding your hand?? :-)
This is UNJUST!! Somebody really should appreciate the modest, but sincere efforts of leftists to improve themselves. CONGRATS, comrade!!!
joaquinveyron 2 months ago
@amamerc The Communist Manifesto isn't even comprehensive. Try reading The 18th Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte and the first part of Das Kapital.
It is pretty much accepted in Marxist theory that one can claim there are two different forms of Marxism, where he changes his analysis. And that was all Marx espoused – analysis.
sighedeffects 2 months ago
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@sighedeffects "The Communist Manifesto isn't even comprehensive"
Exactly, dimwit. What is comprehensive at all in Marxist "theory"?? -- Exactly: NOTHING.
If you are looking for explicit political goals/agenda of Marx, then you have to look somehwhere else anyhow. But a veeeeeeeeeeery "intelligent" guy certainly will not that, huh ? :-) :_9
HAHAHAHA
LEFTISTS are such PATHETIC LOSERS. Cant believe it.
joaquinveyron 2 months ago
@amamerc As far as what Communists openly declare... I can cite several examples of Capitalists that openly declare that, only through the oppression and elimination of non-Whites will Capitalism be fully realised.
Just because some Communist parties declare this does not mean they all do the same. Many of the members of the Frankfurt School were openly critical of Lenin and the Bolshevik Revolution.
sighedeffects 2 months ago
@sighedeffects "Communist parties declare this does not mean they all do the same. "
Ah, really, fool??
Only that ALL COMMUNIST SHITHOLES around the world were/are based on the same communist stupidity, i.e.:
- abolition of free markets/private property/entrepreneurship
- collectivization/planned economy
- "classless" society
- material "equality"
Badabee, badaboo .. when do IMBECILES like you START THINKING???? When???
joaquinveyron 2 months ago
@joaquinveyron How many years of study have you dedicated to this very topic? If it is less then six, please stop with the constant disparaging remarks about not thinking about the topics at hand. Starting a phrase with "badabee, badaboo" and then calling people imbeciles is pretty counter-intuitive, don't ya think?
After you have read (and understand) Lenin, Lukåcs, Gramsci, Marcuse, Parenti, Foucault, and some Derrida: please come back with an educated response on the topic.
sighedeffects 2 months ago
@sighedeffects " calling people imbeciles is pretty counter-intuitive"
Dimwit, calling people who dont know what they are babbling about imbeciles is not counter-intuitive. It is a MATTER OF FACT.
But please, I dont want to make a FOOL OUT OF YOU all the time. Please, the stage is yours ... feel free to present any ARGUMENTS
... hhmmmm, how silent it is, all in a sudden :-) :-) :-)
joaquinveyron 2 months ago
@joaquinveyron I tend to be silent while sleeping. I also tend not to be typing on YT when I'm not at the computer. Funny how that works.
How did you make a fool out of me? I must have missed it. Was I the one that stated I would not even read the very things I was condemning? Oh. You did that. Never mind.
Or am I the fool because I have no need to use caps lock and call names to make a point? I came back with a bit of an argument and you had no substance to respond with, so... w/e
sighedeffects 2 months ago
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@sighedeffects " I came back with a bit of an argument "
Hahahahahahahah ... such as??? Ah, really, you certainly gave me an answer my € 1,00,000 question, right??
on how communism can be realised
1) WITHOUT ending up in POVERTY; INEFFICIENCY, FAMINES, but PROSPERITY
2) WITHOUT ending up in DICTATORSHIPS; UN-FREEDOM, FORCE, TERROR, but FREEDOM
Strange, havent heard any ... HAHAHAAHHAHAAH
joaquinveyron 2 months ago