Reply to Thomasmatus

[LooksAeterna]

Your POV strikes me entirely plausible and laudable.

May I suggest that in case you look for a decisive experience that you follow the injunctions that lead to such an experience. Sadly such paths tend to be demanding, and so one will not follow unless one already has some sort of "faith".

Nevertheless, may I suggest you try the method of vipassana which you might call "atheist" if you like. I suggest you immediately go on a 10 day retreat lest you be seduced into slacking before experience.

[ContraWagner]

I always wondered what it would feel like to have a genuine religious experience, and how I would react to it.

[greycloud24]

eat some magic mushrooms, you will get the full halucination, you may even get the chance to talk to angels.

[tooltime9901]

the shadow on the wall behind you looks like an exact silhouette of the Eagle monument in Plattsburgh, NY. good video by the way.

[unseenstrings]

The Maori formed personal relationships with imaginary gods made of wood and stone. So there is no reason modern religious folk can't form similar personal relationships with imaginary gods made of air. The relationship would develop as a result of habitually praying/talking to the air. That's one way the brain gets wired with perception of reality. After a certain age children are discouraged from having imaginary friends, except for the god worshiped by their friends and family. Naturalism Org

[SpiritualAtheist]

I once worshipped a god who appeared, in the flesh, to a 15 year old boy named Joseph Smith. And i went through all the motions of the various private and public rituals that accompany that particular religious belief. But a religions typically serves a social function that extends far beyond the religion's founding mythology. That makes it easy (i think) for a lot people to remain in the religion without actually believing it. I think that probably happens a lot.

[unseenstrings]

The philosopher, George Santayana (1863-1952) was a Catholic. And he referred to himself as an atheistic Catholic. He enjoyed the social atmosphere and rituals of the Church. He also was a sort of dualist, because he said he "believed in general in a dualism between facts and the ideas of those facts in human heads." Chuckle Chuckle

[2bsirius]

Very good video.

[SpiritualAtheist]

Thank you.

[unseenstrings]

I've pointed out many times that humans are often mistaken and sometimes downright deceitful--especially when acting in self-interest--that in no way would I believe anything about any god, should the information happen to pass to me via a method that could have had human origins. Now, if my Chihuahua suddenly started talking or picked up a pen and started writing, she would have my full attention. Besides, if a god existed who wanted to be known, we would all be born with indisputable awareness

[SpiritualAtheist]

Yes, the kind of experience I am talking about is something like a talking dog. Some people claim to 'feel a presence' and other such things. But given what we know about brains today there are other ways to account for such feelings. But if God wants to get my attention, a talking dog would be a good start. :)

[0ThouArtThat0]

Great video. I tend toward a more impersonal though spiritual view of the cosmos. I have no doubt it is intelligence, but I don't know that said intelligence speaks English and cares about the human species any more than every other life form.

[SpiritualAtheist]

That's interesting. Do you think of this intelligence a some prime (irreducible) feature of reality/cosmos or do you think of it as something that has evolved from unintelligent sources, as did human intelligence?

[redliterocket4]

I think it is a bit of both. I try to keep one eye on a transcendent intelligence and the other eye on an immanent intelligence. The former doesn't evolve because it is outside time. The latter certainly evolves along with the cosmos itself.

[thomasmatus]

Thanks, Mike, for an excellent video, now among my favorites. Your logical objections are impeccable. Your unwillingness to believe on hearsay is like that of my patron saint, you know who... the Doubter. Today's Bible reading was about Mary Magdalen, who announced to the disciples, "I have seen the Lord." But, IMHO, what for want of a better word is called God is usually seen in the everyday beauties of life, love, & nature, rather than extraordinary or psychic phenomena. Keep in touch!

Thomas

[SpiritualAtheist]

Hi Thomas - Actually, I think Thomas (the doubter) was wrong not to believe. Thomas was one of the twelve. As such he would have been witness to Jesus' many miracles, including raising Lazarus from the dead. So Thomas had seen first-hand this paradigm of miracles. In that context it would have been perfectly reasonable to believe that Jesus had been resurrected. Of course I'm being picky here and this only becomes an issue if I take the story literally - which I don't.

[unseenstrings]

I don't think you're nit-picking. Some stories of the Bible don't reflect reality as I've experienced it. A talking ass certainly would have gotten a stronger reaction out of me than Balaam. I've had friends die, and for some time afterwards, I've found myself "recognizing" them in a crowd, unlike Jesus' disciples. They didn't recognize Jesus? Wonder what they were smoking? I've heard the story of "Doubting Thomas" many times; and the moral of the story was always faith is better than skepticism

[SpiritualAtheist]

I agree.

[onlywhenprovoked]

I often say, even if god showed up before me and performed magic tricks that no one could scientifically perform, I would just think i lost my mind and was hallucinating.

[SpiritualAtheist]

I'm not sure what I would do in that situation. I like to think that i would have the composure to consider such reasonable alternatives (ie, 'i am hallucinating'), but until something like that happens to ME I just don't know. And i don't lay awake at night worrying that something like that might happen. Like I said in the video, at this point it would have to be a really powerful experience to make me a believer.

[jogayot]

testimonies... you xor them rounding up to them while rounding down to yourself ;) (don't ask me, just sort of formed and wrote itself like that).