The Zeitgeist Movement - Radio Show - Nov 16th '11 Host- Peter Joseph

[crowwithacookie]

20:56 talks about human worth based on social contribution...this is politically relevant to me as a Massachusetts citizen, because, in November, there will be a ballot question proposing the legalization of euthanasia.

[gjhollingsworth1]

I feel so informed about the way of the world, how we can come together to make it better. Thanks Peter

[Josephjoel3]

Keep rambling Peter! KEEP RAMBLING!!!!!!!!! Seriously we need it.

[Josephjoel3]

How can anybody attack this guy?! He is telling people straight up to learn, think, and do independently! He is not a leader, but a distributor of information to create independent knowledgeable persons to create a true and sane civilization from the ground up!

[robinsonworld]

At 20:25 Peter Joseph makes a false assumption that race occurred as an evolutionary process due to the environment. I am surprised he actually believes that because there is no scientific evidence to support this notion.

[ZeoDyce]

@robinsonworld No scientific evidence? Everything evolves or "adapts" to their environment. *cough*black people*cough*

[robinsonworld]

@ZeoDyce The Mennonite community in Bolivia has been on the move for over 500 years. First in Holland, then Russia, then Canada and then Mexico and now Bolivia and Paraguay. Yet they are no different than those who remained in the original settlement. Why is that? Adaptation does not translate into physical evolution. A polar bear moved to Africa will continue to be a Polar Bear. Blacks are not black due to their environment.

[enticed2zeitgeist]

@robinsonworld Are you basing that whole argument on 500 years? Is there some more evidence to your claim?

[robinsonworld]

@enticed2zeitgeist Mummies dating almost 5,000 years also show no real physical evolution from adaptation to their environment. Royalty and intellectuals show no difference from the those they ruled over. Must I have faith that we will evolve into creature with large heads and toothpick arms thanks to the advancement of technology in the year 2525? What evidence is there that this will occur?

[enticed2zeitgeist]

@robinsonworld Has the environment changed much in 5000 years in that area that would cause the human form to have to adapt? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm actually asking you. I'm not visible physical adaptations could be measured in just 5000 short years either. I don't study the subject.

[robinsonworld]

@enticed2zeitgeist 5000 "short" years should give us at least a little indication, wouldn't you think?

[enticed2zeitgeist]

@robinsonworld No I wouldn't think so. Not when you take into the grand timeline of human-primate development. I have presumed (perhaps falsely) that the concept of racial differences among the human species was suggested by Evolutionary Biologists. That's the only place I would turn towards to get a definitive answer. Do the scientists of this study say that racial differences are not because of gentle adaptions over a grand scale of time?

[robinsonworld]

@enticed2zeitgeist How would or could genes be affected by adaption? I used to believe we lost our tails due to their non use. A mule doesn't become a mule due to adaptation, it becomes what it is thanks to a jackass and a mare. Characteristics are passed on through breeding not by way of adaption to the environment. If a polar bear adapts to a warmer climate, it will always still prefer a colder one. That preference will not change over time.

[enticed2zeitgeist]

@robinsonworld Have you watched Zeitgeist Moving Forward? Robert Sapolsky and other scientists talk about how Genes when given the proper or improper precursors affect the way the genes develop or not at all. It makes sense really. Like if you put a child in darkness for the first few years of it's life, it doesn't develop vision. I would imagine if you kept many generations in the dark they wouldn't bother to develop vision at all, eventually. Just one example.

[robinsonworld]

@enticed2zeitgeist Yes, I watched ZG-Moving Forward and it is interesting that you bring up that point (which I totally agree with). Development is important at certain stages, however, realize that the potential to develop is there so that the disability caused by the environment is not genetic; it will not be passed on to the next generation.

[enticed2zeitgeist]

@robinsonworld I think this comes down to the point in the movie where Gabor Mate talks about predisposition versus predetermination. There are certainly factors that can be passed down from parent to child. Sometimes you even see the traits reflected in a grand child where it has skipped the parent.

At any rate, I'm curious. If you don't believe that adaptation comes from an evolutionary aspect, where do you presume it originates?

[robinsonworld]

@enticed2zeitgeist I couldn't agree with you more. You will notice, however, that these traits do not originate from an adaptation to an environment (there is no evidence to support that assumption). Adaptation is an innate characteristic in almost every living organism on earth. If an organism adapts it will not evolve unless it mutates and mutation cannot account, in my interpretation, for all the diversity we see on this planet. It would require faith on the part of those who "believe".

[enticed2zeitgeist]

@robinsonworld I see what you mean now. It's not that you are dismissing the whole Zeitgeist Movement just rather pointing out that one of it's arguments is stretching some truth. Is that correct? If that's true I know how you feel. I have a few tid bits here and there that I don't see eye to eye on. Despite that, I still haven't found anything else that so whole holistically addresses so many issues.

And I'm still curious about where you believe adaptation comes from. Design perhaps?

[robinsonworld]

@enticed2zeitgeist No I don't dismiss the ZM nor TVP and I would encourage everyone to be exposed to it because at least it shows that this system of things has got to go. My concern is that people who put their faith in ZM and/or TVP will only end up disappointed. My person belief is that a paradise on earth will only be achieved by divine intervention. Having said that, however, we individually need to conduct our lives now to make it a reality. Ecology, charity, follow Christ's example.

[enticed2zeitgeist]

@robinsonworld Hear hear! I can respect that for sure. It's been good chatting with you.

[robinsonworld]

@enticed2zeitgeist Same here! If there is one great message ZG & TVP can communicate with people is to stop supporting this corrupt system of things. Even if we might not have the answers, at least we won't contribute to the problem. When everything falls apart we will at least have a good conscience and will be willing participants in constructing a New World envisioned in TVP but realized through divine intervention.

[enticed2zeitgeist]

@robinsonworld I suppose it might work out that way. I don't in particular subscribe to the teachings of Christ, at least not through any modern day church I have visited but I am more than willing to respect the lessons that can be learned through basically all religions. They all basically deal with the same things, what is right and what is wrong. I don't personally care where people draw their morals from just as long they have them and are willing to discuss/share and possibly upgrade them.

[robinsonworld]

@enticed2zeitgeist What you said is the key: "as long they have them and are willing to discuss/share and possibly upgrade them." You know what? We are one the same page. Thanks! It has been my pleasure.

[robinsonworld]

@enticed2zeitgeist Yes, I believe the innate capability to adapt comes through design.

[robinsonworld]

@enticed2zeitgeist Another thought regarding adaption. In 1962 (even at 8 I was all into evolution) our poodle had boxer pups and I was the one who took them in to have their tails clipped off. The impact that made on me plus the fact that the veterinary assured me that he noticed the tails getting shorter over time, I imagined the dogs would eventually loose their tails. The scientific community knows that is a false assumption yet people hold to that principle. Adaption is not evolution.

[enticed2zeitgeist]

@robinsonworld Well in your specific example here you are not demonstrating adaptation you are describing a physical manipulation. I would think adaptation through a slow course of evolution would have to come from a genetic predisposition. I believe this how organisms both complex and simple adapt to colds, fungus, bacteria and the like.

[EveSansdieu]

From what ''public'' position do you make your thoughts known ?

As a private ''man'' or ''woman'', that position is esteemed to be the number ''one'' position of full liability.

All other ''positions'' or 'offices'' are limited liability public positions backed by limited liability insurance.

Fraud, is not (considered) fraud, if it harms a public ''person'' under limited liability.

Declare being a ''man'' or ''woman'', in those positions or offices, fraud is illegal and under full liability.

[EveSansdieu]

6,853Views 7/Dec/2011

Thank you ''peter'' for this radio-talk mentioning the basics of Zeitgeist.

Inside law, ''hew-mans, persons, citizens,etc... are legal terms used with laws.

Do you actually think that you are a ''person'' or ''citizen'' ?

There are more than 40 definitions for the word ''person'' in law books.

So, what definition of ''person'' do you consent to be recognized as in public ?

Reference: Black's Law Dictionary

Do good.

[mrjonno]

Spot on Peter with the overall message. Unfortunately TZM has been damaged with regard to integrity of message through the split with TVP. Overall both movements rely now on interpretation of Buckminster Fuller.

You have not dismissed the 'weirdos' and those who want to take TZM as their own by superstitious means.

I hope this talk can be taken literally. It's important and this is an understatement!!

[mrjonno]

"The System" as questioned is not universal but from PJ's point of view in the US which is by all accounts extreme, abnormal and simply disgusting by any world view. It promotes extremism, conducts warfare and is ultimately devisive and non integrational by promoting the capitalist ethic beyond any 'mixed' economy solution which will promote relative harmony until world RBE can be introduced

[mrjonno]

Agreed - Humanity needs to be on the same page, problem, humanity isn't remotely on the same page. Members of your movement are not on the same page.

Money is is on the same page universally. Religion is on the back of money. Religion is on the same page as superstition and superstition is still the currency for basic human intuition.

I'm a supporter and I try my best but until humanity is educated and universally raised above deity worship we have a big problem.

[Pumpkinhead77]

Is there a way I can download these for my MP3 player? I want to listen to them while I do my incredibly boring job.

[enticed2zeitgeist]

@Pumpkinhead77 blogtalkradio dawt cawm slash zmglobal

[TheMarkMarxon]

Thank you for all your hard work!

Your message makes me take action to be a better human.

All tha love...

[TheDarkFenix]

These last lectures Peter has given are just outstanding. He's really outdoing himself lately. Besides this one, there're other two masterpieces called when normality becomes distortion and from consequences to solutions.

Highly recommended

[TheDarkFenix]

Who are these 2 who didn't like this ? Please show yourselves.

I've learned more in 50 mins here than in 1 year at school

[yourmajezty]

nukes dont exist

[creamone]

The concepts of a RBE isn't difficult to understand. The problem I believe people are having is their distortion of values. Once they overcome this barricade in their minds it will enable them to understand the movement. I'm doing everything I can to change peoples perception of the monetary system.

[headfake]

Great talk. Another words, this system will eventually be rendered obsolete by a truly sustainable one.

[headfake]

Glad Peter watched Food Matters. It's on netflix and also here on youtube I believe.

[iiMPR3SSiiON]

People like Peter can make you think! And that's valuable!

[iiMPR3SSiiON]

Attending university at this time seems to me so pointless! Would you make yourself some coffee and get cookie during the time your house is burning?! Of course not ...

[IAM18YEARSOLDANDOVER]

@iiMPR3SSiiON Yeah I'm seriously wondering whether it is worth going to university with technological unemployment fast approach and with no where for people to go. I think I will stick it out though because I don't think elementary teaching will be automated anytime soon.

[silversobe]

That Buckminster Fuller quote was profound! Nailed it!

29:47

[TheDarkFenix]

It is really impossible to counter the logic behind a Resource Based Economy. At least with solid arguments instead of the usual prima fascie, surface associations bullshit.

This is why this will work, if we have enough time to survive to reach that point.

[5m1nutes]

08:45 WHERE ARE THE DISCUSSIONS? Where are the refutations of the economic arguments in a live debate?

[TheRichie213]

We need more people like Peter.

[ElusiveParticle]

Thank you Peter.

[lovetron77]

OPWP- Operate Planet Work Processes

[substance901]

Great talk as always, Peter. Thank you for your time, we really appreciate it!

[Tuneinfreq]

This movement in consiousness and change in the way we do things is inevitable, we must realize that the monetary system in all its use and hence abuse is now currupt and is doing nothing more than interfering with our evolution. Therefore we need an economy that "evenly and efficiently" takes care of everyone. Please look up the resource based economic model. Thank You

[todomusika]

great great stuff as always Peter!!

[marsdexter]

Read BM Fuller. The number are staggering when it comes to efficiency. the Entropic relation, especially for the human, what humans take and what humans give in return. Humans are the the most inefficient element in the equation. Granted the Green movement is about 30 yrs late, that is the idea. Can you consume less and contribute more, We are talking about human beings - living people just like us. Do they [all] matter to you? Prove it!

[GoddardPat]

I'm honestly fascinated, but these ideas, however sound, are totally outside the range of our cultural comprehension. How on earth can people be re-oriented to understand them. How do we get from here to there? Those currently in power obviously have no interest in relinquishing their control. The vision of a resource based economy seems too Utopian to be real. Is their any hard evidence to back up the asserted vision? Any feasibility studies?

[d00m0racl3]

@GoddardPat it only seems too utopian beacuse the system has indoctrinated people into believing so, there is no & can NEVER be any type of utopia in an emergent system such as ours. almost ANYTHING can be better than the current system we have & blindly continue to uphold. as others commenting have so well pointed out if one really wants to know the facts, researching the info is easy & involves only a little effort, but WE must put it forth.

[jotho7]

@GoddardPat , understand your question , I asked the same almost three years ago. Is there hard evidence that the current system works or doesnt? The facts are simple, we live in a system that is based on finite resources and it's assumed it's infinite. that right there is bad science. Jacques has studied a rbe for over half his life. An rbe is exactly how a space station or moon base would work. (think about that for a second) .Its hard to answer in the characters available.

[jotho7]

@GoddardPat There are many studies done on what truly motivates people and its not money. Its hard to do "trials" of an rbe because it has to involve all to work, you cant build a rbe city because it would be subject to laws and rules and taxes, things of the current system. You can build self sufficient buildings, and high rise farms, things that would be part of an rbe and they work. Putting it all together socially with technologically and thats an RBE. Wish I could explain further

[pcuimac]

We have to begin now or their will be not enough energie and structure left to build upon.

[pcuimac]

Thank you for your thought provoking lecture. I think the change you talk about has to come from people who make money in the convential sytem and invest it in small communitys tat grow and get selfsustainable on a high tec level. Meaning housing, factories, science centers, energy generation etc. Those communities become the centers of the new cities that replace the old outdated metropolises.

[nistyboy32]

"our lives are only as good as the institutions that govern us". It doesn't get any more poetic than that!

[vigilance71]

I am thinking science will do away with the current paradigm. Money/Debt system must go.

[dkornsb]

Thumbs up for Space Oddity by David Bowie. Who knew Peter was a Bowie fan!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ichibanski8]

@signalfire6 haha i've heard that alex jones debacle. what a douche. i knew he was nuts when he called noam chomsky an operative for the new world order :-/

[hi2u121221]

People aren't there yet, but we'll get there one way or another.

[littleaznboy11]

Our technology has exceeded our values and we have better change our values really fast; therefore, change the social system that reinforces those values, or we’re fucking doomed. -Peter Joseph

[thinkofwhy]

Buckminister Fuller's Synergetics Vol I & II is a sweet read. :D

[OneirophobicMusic]

Change the battery in your smoke detector. The beeping is distacting.

[wewerestrangers1]

You got some great stuff to say dude.

Quit channeling so much of your energies into anger though if you want people to listen when youre speaking.

Channel them into explaining the cause of the problem and outlining solutions in each part of what youre saying.

That after all is the scientic method, not anger

[norvman]

hummm glad you mentioned Bucky ... Is one of my superheros

[pawqmasta00]

Peter just went Super Saiyan @ 8:30 !!

[GreenCrooksApts]

Talks like these give me hope of a better world on the other side of the painful transitional period.

[signalfire6]

Alleged alien contactee Alex Collier has said his alien friends stated, "I cannot understand why you need to have money to live on the planet you were born on..."

He said that of the other dozens of 'local' planetary civilizations, earth was the only one where money was required. Maybe its time we got with the galactic program...

[robvanbreemen]

I don’t no about the other locations bud the occupiers in Amsterdam Netherlands’s are speaking more and more about leaving the monetarism are looking for tech solutions. so please be patient for them occupy is a necessary step to confirm we go the wrong way. At least they take a step even if it is way to small bud it's more than doing nothing. step by step we get there :-> good show be the way. greets from the 100% :->

[gordon1201]

Awesome stuff.

[uben56]

y have to love this movement

[MyOnlyFarph]

Got dammit from those first two words I thought you were going to sing Peta. >:^0

[AndrewDeneHelbig]

Thanks for the radio address Peter (and the rest of the movement)! I love to be aware of any news of Zeitgeist, and even if it is "rambling", it is still enjoyable to hear.

Though this won't actually do anything beneficial to your immune system, get well soon Peter! =D

[questionsleadtotruth]

One year until Zeitgeist 4!!!

[PortlandsTransport]

Brilliant, as always...

It's not occupy, it I AINT PLAYING THIS GAME NO MORE!

[Excelion333]

Jolly good show.

[ichibanski8]

Does he have debates posted anywhere?

[enticed2zeitgeist]

@ichibanski8 No direct debates that I've seen yet. But I have seen him go back and forth with Youtube and Email responses to various opinions about TZM. Look up "Peter Joseph response" or "Zeitgeist Response" in youtube and you'll probably get the debates that I'm referring too.

[signalfire6]

@ichibanski8 Re debates, you might want to check out the Freedomain back and forth, and the 'interview' with Alex Jones from a few years ago. You'll never think the same of Jones again... what a jerk.

[2012GreenGhost420]

Come to TORONTO!!! Vancouver is too far... I don't have someone's "debt" to buy me a plane ticket to BC

[enticed2zeitgeist]

2 years or so ago when I first discovered TZM I listened to every single Blogtalk that PJ ever did. It took me about 1 full week to fully understand the founding principles of TZM and since then I still haven't heard of any other possible solution to such a vast array of problems but I remain open.

[questionsleadtotruth]

@enticed2zeitgeist Halleluiah!  Praise the SCIENCE!!!

[pouyan12]

@enticed2zeitgeist TZM & TVP present the best solutions I have discovered thus far; but know that the radical revolution is of each human being's conscience & this inward revolution will bring about the outward revolution. TZM & TVP will not occur unless a critical mass undergoes the inward radical revolution. I highly recommend searching "pouyan12 Jiddu Krishnamurti" in youtube and attentively listening to the 18 interviews posted...'one who looks outside dreams, one who looks inside awakes'

[enticed2zeitgeist]

@pouyan12 I know what ya mean. I totally agree. I'm familiar with Jiddu's teachings.

[robinsonworld]

@enticed2zeitgeist This human endeavor has so many merits that no other solution could even come close. However, that being said, I believe it will fail. People want equality with those above them, not with those beneath.

[enticed2zeitgeist]

@robinsonworld I agree with you about the equality thing, but with that said there is probably a deeper "wanting" than what appears on the surface. For the most part people don't even acknowledge that they want equality, what they want is what fills their desires, which are shaped in small ways genetically and largely cultural (look up Robert Sapolsky and his research). Most people never intellectually grow to escape the bonds of primal programming, so it all depends on how it unfolds to me.

[robinsonworld]

@enticed2zeitgeist Right you are about culture but I disagree that people are shaped genetically. I have found no evidence that supports that notion that is not colored with bias. You can make statistics say just about anything you want them to. My ideas about genetic influence on people flew out the window when I moved to Bolivia in the early 70's. I am against racism and anything that would lean in that direction.

[enticed2zeitgeist]

@robinsonworld When I say genetically (and I did say in small ways) I didn't mean their potential is shaped genetically, just the kind of primers and types of stimulants that a specific individual will be responsive too. Would it be fair to say some children are born more naturally geared towards music and art and others more mathematical and logical. Kind of like how certain students learn things different than others, some are auditory, some are visual, some are hands on learners.

[robinsonworld]

@enticed2zeitgeist I got you and I agree with you. That being said I also believe these same genetic attributes are distributed among ALL ethnic groups.

[enticed2zeitgeist]

@robinsonworld For sure. Statements like "THEM CHINESE ARE SO GOOD AT MATHS LOL" is pretty ignorant. When you look at the "top" of any physical or academic field you find every race among the top.

[tomsp1138]

great rambling! :P very interesting PJ you are awesome!

[LAPDP92]

thanks for the update peter'

[meadowsirl]

is that a smoke alarm needing a battery i hear in the background?

[Seventy4K]

great as always...I will definetly feature this in my  youtube project z-feed.