I enjoy all kinds of "art music" but no matter how much I try I just can't get into Cage. To me his work feels shallow, like someone who is trying to hard. I don't hear the insight that I do from his predecessors and contemporaries. Mind you, I don't hate his work.
No, I must say this didnt sound to me like gamelan. They usually have some really intricate rhythms. Its like the style but without some of its substance...
For someone with Perfect pitch, this music literally hurts, even though I would like to listen to it, yeah I love all music, except I can't listen to ones that cause me PAIN for long : (
@OCUBOX I can't see what Perfect pitch has to do with consonance. Whether something sounds good to you or not is purely subjective and is based off of the western tonality that we all have been taught since the day we first heard a song, as early as while we were still in the womb. What Cage is saying is that there is no "natural" hierarchy of notes and we can learn new sounds to enjoy if we just keep our minds open.
@xXReidABookXx you're correct there about learning and finding a new kind of sound pleasing to the ear, But Cages music causes me Pain (as in ear-aches), so maybe that is not an option, I still have other composers that Bend tonality without breaking it (well very close to but without). . .
Each time this piece is played, is the piano prepared differently? Are the preparations for the piano written into the score or does the pianist have free reign?
In any case Cage was a true great at writing for this instrument-the best piano pieces are ones that remember that the pianoforte is percussion.
The scores for each piece come with instructions on preparing the piano. However some ambiguity arises from Cage being very specific with positions of materials in terms of distance from the hammers etc, but he makes no allowances for different sizes of piano or screws. So kind of yes and kind of no.
@Waldvogel91 The preparations are scored. However, the composer discovered that he was not able to control the extent to which the scoring of the preparations were open to interpretation, nor could he control the physical instrument which was to be modified. At first this disturbed him. Eventually, he embraced the differences in accord with the aesthetic he would later develop.
@DarkZekeX A funny story-I did go to 2:16 and it did sound like a tribal Stravinsky phrase. About 30 seconds earlier I had put a CD in the laptop not knowing what was on it and it just autoplayed and soon after that particular part was heard in the prepared piano piece, the opening Bassoon solo from Le Sacre was playing from the speakers. So I heard Stravinsky at 2:16 and then again about half a minute later.
But labels--in music and otherwise--are how we identify things. It's how we describe new things to others; kind of a shorthand between humans for the connections that the brain makes between certain sounds, sights, etc. Labels can be damaging when used negatively--when you use them as an insult, or you exclude those who 'fit' in a certain label. But I think it would be pretty hard to abandon labels altogether.
@doodlehh I agree with what you're saying. the name isn't what's important. you can call it anything. the name is just there to distinguish ohe set of phenomena from another. but the labels are agreed upon simply so one person can explain the same set of phenomela to another and the other person will be able to understand what he's talking about. the problem arises when one starts taking it too seriously and thinking the label is actually and thing in and of itself.
So fun! I love how the first movement has that gamelan effect going on! And love how the tunnings are changed by so many differents items inserted into the piano. It gives it such a round robust sound it's like a bunch of different instrument were created because of the different items! soo fun! Wahooo! :)
Ok people, "Bacchanale" was the 1st piece Cage composed for the prepared piano in 1940. Syvilla Fort was graduating the Cornish School, WA and had to put together a dance performance and percussion couldn't fit in the performance hall but a grand piano could. Fort asked Cage for music and he gave her "Bacchanale," dance music.
When was this recorded? Not composed, but recorded. I am aware of some of the story behind Cale's compositions during the time it was composed, but who recorded this and when?
Some day we all will be like John Cage. In the meantime, I think he would want us to enjoy hearing sounds, and probably not argue about them.
Mr. Cage did, by the way, study art, architecture and so forth, philosophy of Zen with Dr. D.T. Suzuki, and music with Arnold Schoenberg and others. It isn't as though his compositions came from a position of ignorance.
Music is organized sound, what John Cage strived for was organizing sounds that shouldn't traditionally be "organized". Mozart is organized sound in pure form, John Cage is organized disorganized sound
Nice vid.. it does work well as film music, doesn't it. Re: the raging discussion here. Of course JC's (Cage, not Jesus) definition of music must have been mentioned already: "It's music if you think it's music". Sounds flip, but it's true! Music is in the perception, not the creation. Stravinsky said, in his "Poetics of Music" that birds do not make music, just animal sounds (how he knows is a mystery!). Birds don't make music for HIM, but do for others if they LISTEN for it! Case closed.
@lockedandlogan What about computer algorithms that are designed to compose music without human input? C major in common time from a computer cannot possibly be considered music, right?
A musician is a producer of sound, and that is what Cage is doing, producing sounds. Its called experimental for a reason, because the narrow minded see music in one dimension, while pioneers like cage bend our perceptions and make us rant and rave and blah, blah. I love Cage and his production of sound.
I disagree. My music teacher has her doctorate, and she said as she grew up she asked all her teachers what the definition of music is and none of them know. Hell, even the prestigious "Grove Dictionary of Music and Musicians" doesn't have a definition for 'music.'
Regardless, after many years of searching and learning she said "Music is sound set to time." Very broad, but Cage falls in the category for the most part. Therefore, 4'33" and others are very controversial.
I don't think a person can be accused of being narrow minded for disliking Cage's work. You say he is producing sounds, but music is not just "sounds" produced. There is a difference between producing sounds and producing music. Not everything can be considered music, because there are qualifications that need to be met. There needs to be rhythms, harmony, a melody, etc.
Also, if you have "heard" 4'33", Cage isn't producing sounds whatsoever.
cage produces rhythms. 4'33" he is producing sounds. he is producing reactions, he provokes ambiance, like C33Four stated, there is no definition for music. there does no need for rhythms, harmonies, or melodies to be music. that is merely the music you know. whos to say this sound is music and this sound is not. earsringing because of a loud noise. i feel that sound is music, as is the Jay-Z soing on your iPod. different music stimulating different minds. hence why the sound of rain is soothing
He is clearly not producing sounds in 4'33". You argue that he is producing reactions, but to me, it seems more like a moment of silence that a principal might ask for at a high school. Just not as extensive. Is a principal a composer?
Even Schoenberg, his teacher, says he was not a composer. How can you argue against someone who would know him so well? Against someone who would know music so well?
@lockedandlogan Schoenberg said this of cage, "Of course he's not a composer, but he's an inventor—of genius." Cage studied harmony with Henry Cowell and Adolph Weiss in order to prepare a sufficient vocabulary to study with Schoenberg. Cage could not afford Schoenberg's lesson rates and out of admiration for Cage's enthusiasm, Schoenberg agreed to teach him for free. Schoenberg was only skeptical of Cage's compositional potential because his experience with Western harmony was limited.
trying to pin a definition on a social phenomenon is silly. The definition of music has always been changing.Cage was asking "what if we expand this definition, and the tool remains useful? What if we still hear organization, some kind of non-composed beauty?"
By writing an "empty" piece, he encouraged many to listen for the infinite beauty of the natural world. Don't wait for something to qualify as "music" to start paying attention. Try to question arbitrary distinctions like this.
Speaking of 4'33 have you actually listened to a performance of this piece or are you simply going on the short definition? Cage is producing sound, listen to the orchestra musicians, they are making natural sound: shuffling of papers, whispers. This silence is not the negation of sound, its the growing ground for natural sounds, a nest for natural improv. By the way, fuck your opinion that music needs to be regulated, this is blasphemy against creativity.
@deadinapark I listened to most of it, but then I got bored. Telling people to not do shit for 4'33" is not making music. It's not doing anything. I hear natural sound every day of my life. It'd be like me turning a fucking faucet on and calling it music. I'd call it art and douches like you would come hear it despite the fact that they hear it damn near every day. And I didn't say that music needs to be regulated, so fuck you. I haven't said Cage isn't creative.
And why shouldn't we appreciate what we hear everyday, for its aesthetic qualities? Yes you did say that music should be regulated. You put requirements on it and so you are regulating it. I don't think a person who gets enjoyment out of listening to these sounds is a "douche", ridiculous insult by the way. I don't think people who enjoy popular composers are douches. I don't think I'd be listening to any of your faucet sounds, nor any music you might make. Nor would I consider it art.
@deadinapark We should appreciate what we hear every day, but nobody should get famous for pointing it out. That's ridiculous. I didn't say it should be regulated, I'm just saying somebody should actually put forth some effort in making music instead of saying, "Here listen to ambience." And you're the one who started being a prick, I was being civilized, but I'm so sorry you don't like my insults. You'd consider it art if John Cage did it, though, I'm sure. If only I were a genius like him.
I'm tired of arguing that you were regulating music by defining it. You obviously won't accept that. I'm well convinced myself that by defining music you limit it, in effect, constrained to certain rules, "must have melody, harmony, rhythm". I'm sorry about your self esteem problem. Maybe one day you'll be just like John Cage, but in the meantime try not to sounds so whiny about it.
@lockedandlogan John Cage's pieces all used extremely detailed and thought out rhythmic devices in order to indicate changes of sections, themes and motifs, you can't hurl abuse and claim to understand it when you are only skimming the surface, he believed in 'micro/macro' composition which basically means creating a piece of music that follows the shape of a 'fractal'. Therefore mathematically all his sections rhymically corresponded to a number that indicated how many beats would make up ....
@ilovesteves (continued)... motifs, periodic phrasing and lengths of sections. These were used on most of his prepared piano pieces, however not on 4:33s which was essentially a piece of abstract art. I study him on my music course... in case you are wondering why I know so much... Just because he was the first person to do something that now seems fairly obvious because musical trends over the last 50 odd years have taken influence from him doesn't change the fact that it was groundbreaking.
@lockedandlogan that is only your opinion, I like the prepared piano pieces, but he also made a few pieces for regular piano and they are much more musical, I advise you to check a few of them out too.
@mightyafrowhitey haha oops, was quite a while ago, yeah... I think I meant in terms of that guy saying anyone could make it. Less mathematical and strict or something like that.. I need to learn a bit more about the later stuff though, because it probably could be as methodical...
@deadinapark I have no issue viewing him as an artist, and I think many of his pieces do qualify as music, but 4'33" is not music. Art? Definitely. Creative? You bet. Music? No way.
@lockedandlogan You have failed to define a standard of measure for quantifying the necessary control of rhythm and pitch. Specifically how much rhythm, harmony and melody are required for an aural experience to qualify as music? It's obvious Cage's point with 4'33" was that music exists even without our compositional input. "I don't like the cacophony of ambience, I like meticulously composed music" is a fair opinion but demanding that there is a definition for music will make you look stupid.
@gnargnarrads That sounded a lot more like being a smart ass than making an argument.
My point isn't that there needs to be a definition for music, my point is that you have to actually create something for it to be music. I have no problem acknowledging the majority of Cage's work as music, but 4'33" is not. He doesn't create anything and I think he'd agree that that's the point. It may be a nice concept or thought but without actually composing sounds it isn't music.
How much of a certain quality should a series of sounds have until it is considered music by you? You should have an idea since you seem rather anal about what music means to you.
@lockedandlogan Check out the score; I believe it's in two movements and each one says, "tacet." Cage composed the score and had it published. It's in the repertoire and whining about it on youtube isn't going to make it go away. "...because there are qualifications that need to be met. There needs to be rhythms, harmony, a melody, etc." "My point isn't that there needs to be a definition for music..." You like to play both sides of the fence.
You play both sides of the fence by saying, "music needs to meet my qualifications" and then by saying, "I never said music has to be defined." Good luck earning a music degree or otherwise convincing people that your personal taste is absolute.
@gnargnarrads And I understand his point in 4'33" and I agree that we should appreciate the little things that we sense, but by pointing that out he didn't create music. I listen to ambient noises every day and have before I learned of Cage's existence.
The music does exist, but he isn't creating it as much as making the listener aware of something they didn't create. It would be like teaching somebody to play an instrument, them playing something and you claiming you composed it. Interesting concept, but I wouldn't call it composition.
I have personally worked very hard learning my instrument. Whereas I might not enjoy listening to Cage's music all of the time, I feel I understand it. You have to really accept it for what it is, Cage wouldn't have wanted it any other way. To quote Cage, ""The first question I ask myself when something doesn't seem to be beautiful is why do I think it's not beautiful. And very shortly you discover that there is no reason."
I agree with you that judging music on a basis of in-the-box/outside-of-the-box is a fairly wretched way of looking at music since it basically imposes a very limited set of ideals upon one's aesthetic sensibility. I am extremely critical of Cage's work because his work sounds like the gimmicky noodlings of a non-talented grade-schooler and is shoved in peoples' faces with labels of "groundbreaking" and "genius." Aesthetic viewpoints should not be boxed in, but there should be limits to openness
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This IS undoubtedly music. It's just not very good. Without the screws and bullshit shoved in the strings, this would be pretty much be any half-talented high-schooler pushing random keys and occasionally playing some pattern. It strikes me as being just as noodly and worthless as his piece for toy piano. For being the only works of his that actually resemble music and aren't just philosophical ideas and aleatoric bullshittery, these pieces are pretty pathetic and immature.
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Before anyone flames my opinion, I may as well mention that when I first started playing piano and guitar during my childhood, I made dozens of hideous cassette recordings where I would just play stuff like this (silly patterns and intervals, bits of exercises, other random noises that sounded curious). I know I'm not the only one who's been there. In that regard, passing shit this off as serious music is insulting to musicians who work their asses off learning about instruments, players, etc...
Learn music history. Cage was commissioned to write music inspired by a gamelan orchestra for a dance exposition and space was horrendously limited. As a result, Cage worked with what resources were available to him and implemented prepared piano; he ended up in the forefront of the avant-garde music scene. Check out a recording of his composition 4'33," I think you'll like it a lot.
I dont why people are questioning whether this particular song can be defined as music or not. John cage has many songs which are harder to listen to than this one. This ones actually quite catchy.
How then would you define music? I would think that music is organized sound by whatever medium to produce a sonority, which is usually intended to be according to the desires of the creators involved or perhaps even not so. Or one could also define music as an experiment in sound and sonority; to see how different sounds behave one with another. Any thoughts?
Its a consertina of vibration silently enveloped between 2 objects,when the object is touched the envelope opens and the vibration is heard as music.......
But is that what he tried to do? Possibly, probably, who ever said music was always gorgeous and light hearted, like painting it is as hard to paint something pretty rather something extremely hideous. Think about it. People try by throwing paint at a canvas, but never succeed.
Some snobs here like to think they love JC's music, it's the emperors new clothes effect. But if you can listen to it every day and genuinely like it, respect.
At best his 'music' would make an interesting background to some offbeat or dark movies. As stand alone music it has no value whatsoever though. Fundamentally it is 'noise' not music. If you regard every noise in the world as music then, ok Cage is music, but personally i don't. If you want something 'hideous' there are plenty of the great composers who have acheived that, eg... Liszt'z Mephisto Waltz, Bartok's sonata 1st mov ..but these are still MUSICAL pieces of genius.
"The first question I ask myself when something doesn't seem to be beautiful, the first question I ask is 'why do I think it's not beautiful?'... If we can conquer that dislike, or begin to like what we did dislike, then the world is more open.
That path of increasing one's enjoyment of life is the path I think we all best take. To use art not as self expression, but as self alteration. To become more open."
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This music is bad. I'm only listening to it because I have to for my GCSE Music Course. It's so inordinately hidious, it should be considered as music.
haha nice. And how is this hideous doesn't sound dissonant at all to me. He was a genius. This sounds percussive anyway how can it sound any uglier than drums that is in like everything
I would but he's dead and all, but then again you probably don't know that because you don't have to study these people in detail for a flaming qualification in Music.
It emotes [and is emotive] and makes one think, but still, I wouldn't call it "good".
I'd be lying if I said I was pleased at how experimental music has gotten ever since Schoenberg (even though I like Schoenberg). If Cage is the apex of such a movement, frankly, I hope the pendulum starts to swing back in the other direction.
I'll always love so-called "traditional" music more, but I find this stuff a little interesting.
Great work! The video was amazing! Just minimal enough to invoke thought. The piece shines through it all. Kind of Zen. The interpretation of the piano piece is stellar. Of any John Cage videos I've seen tonight, this one stands out. Love it for maybe a fabulous screen saver!!
Wonderful rendition of Cage's piece. I think you heard well the musicality in the complex rhythms Cage was after and you prepared the piano perfectly.
i often have people they dont like like 'modern classical' because they dont understand it, or its just dissonant noises. You dont 'understand' it too enjoy it. If you want to understand it go and take some musical theory lessons, otherwise just listen, for me the whole pleasure in music comes from just hearng it. if the sounds give me pleasure, i like it, regardless of how 'different' or 'dissonant' it may be. Just listen and enjoy, you dont have to understand. lovely piece by the way
if i thought they were an asshole, i would be unlikely to go to their funeral. People are entitled to their opinions, you shouldnt critisize their opinions, but if you want to have a go at them for expresing them in a particular place, that seems fine. in any case, people wont stop opinionating themselfs on you tube, so you might as well give them your opinion as well.
the simple fact that his music even today causes such strong opinions or feelings either way shows that he has done his job excellently. even if someone hates it, if they react so profusely to it he still affected you and pulled your emotional strings. besides, i happen to personally find it great music.
john cage for the trus is za ma finda from the every wer thus glover and spice some kinda bear. i hope solo from the us navy that he can lie everybody from thuz ma kokop chabala in das grausen
if you listen to cage speak, he refers to his preference of sound without intentions. if you look at the broader spectrum of his work you can see he progressed farther away from "traditional" composition, using chance procedures to make decisions for him. I believe cage would laugh at this dialogue for attempting to define the sounds that his physical presence is responsible for making. he would likely prefer not to hold this responsibility because it allows people to avoid actually listening
john cage. i am just getting to know him. obviously i should have done this a long time ago. the video is stylish and a little bit retro. it suits the music. or piano mechanics. words words words.
to say that this work isnt absolutely GREAT is just to deny the obvious. this isnt even very "noisey" at all by modern standards. and the video is PERFECT for it. you haters seriously.... get over your hang ups, noone else cares in 2008
its really not that obvious. he wrote one fucking phrase. this song if he is any kind of good musician shouldve taken him 3 hours tops to write. How can you slap?
Respect that you have differing views of what is art, and let time decide for you. At least that way we don't have to hear a lot of bickering over nothing. :-)
I always think abstract music is different from abstract paintings because they are nice to look at. I'm on the edge about John Cage as a composer, I respect his music, but I'm not sure if I consider him good or not.
john sayed the music is just noise (or something like that) the music is a way of art, the art is how the artist express himself, tray to understand his ideas troug his "noise" and you will see what's he is talking about
like this and the sonatas and interludes (actually they remind me a little bit of stravinsky). but if you 'listen' to the variations III, you realize that they are just a silly modern-conceptual performance
To some Cage's compositions are distasteful, to others, brilliance.
No matter what your opinion is, his compositions are not poor.
You may think that he has just put a nail on strings of the piano, however, his prepared piano can be closely related to Indonesian Gamelan music. Not only does Cage think about timbre and tone, but his structuring of his compositions are so intelligent, which often baffles people.
To think that Cage is a poor composer is ignorant.
Very nice video - the images work very well with the sound. I'm a big fan of Cage's music, and this video fits the piece nicely. It's depressing to read the uninformed commentary on here, but there's no point in trying to have a battle of the wits with unarmed oponents.
Why shouldn't we see the art in everyday life? Why, just about anything can become a meaningful work of art with a change of perspective. Life becomes a lot more interesting when you take up an artistic frame of mind, trust me.
He composed therefore he was, no if's no but's. He was something different and in order to fully understand all music i think you really need to understand and respect this music.
People make me laugh, they come on here, apparently educated, then make statements like Tchaikovsky is superior, or Rachmaninoff should be held in higher regard.
Here is music created autonomously, and people still try to use it as a platform to demonstrate their 'advanced understanding' in some sort of competition.
Revoltz7, congratulations on having an opinion, but you are revealed by your bias and use the term "true art" when it is apparent you haven't understood it.
I admire a lot of Cage's music & philosophy, and this is a fine piece (certainly evocative of its title!); but I don't really see what the big deal with the prepared piano is. People have been "preparing" keyboard instruments in some fashion since the invention of harpsichord & organ registers. Sometimes it seems people take an almost fetishistic view of prepared instruments, which I think is a rather aesthetically unhealthy approach.
I agree. People love this song because it is "one of the first songs to use prepared piano" but they ignore what the song is all about. Cage didn't write this to show of some piano trick.
Or to put it another way: the point of artistic license is that it allows the artist to push our accepted ideas about life further than is usually possible, perhaps further than is comfortable for us. If that means the artist must sometimes go 'too far' for some listeners, so be it.
I love the music, love the video - very aesthetically pleasing. Seems to me your video is a wonderful blend of intent and chance - like what John Cage did. And what are our lives but a product of the blending our intentions and chance?
That looks like the first start of ubuntu on my old computer;)
However, I like the music very much. But in my opinion, it would be nice if the video reacted to the sounds. Though, it gives the music a soft and round continuity which is lovely!
Very nice to listen to, especially the opening. One of Cage's less radical works to say the least.
Rickeeey1 3 months ago
Cool.
EmilyMaddenComposer 6 months ago
I enjoy all kinds of "art music" but no matter how much I try I just can't get into Cage. To me his work feels shallow, like someone who is trying to hard. I don't hear the insight that I do from his predecessors and contemporaries. Mind you, I don't hate his work.
Is it just me?
HelplessInOttawa 6 months ago
by the way, what is it with the piano??? does somebody knw anything beyond the word 'prepared'?
TheRiteOfWinter 10 months ago
@TheRiteOfWinter Prepared piano means that you put different material in and on the piano to produce the different effects you hear.
wiki search prepared piano, you can find all you want to know and more there!
FVmike 10 months ago
No, I must say this didnt sound to me like gamelan. They usually have some really intricate rhythms. Its like the style but without some of its substance...
TheRiteOfWinter 10 months ago
Yeah before I read the comments all I could think of was Gamelan
Rasts 11 months ago
Bach wouldn't be pleased.
RemovdSande11 1 year ago
For someone with Perfect pitch, this music literally hurts, even though I would like to listen to it, yeah I love all music, except I can't listen to ones that cause me PAIN for long : (
OCUBOX 1 year ago
@OCUBOX I can't see what Perfect pitch has to do with consonance. Whether something sounds good to you or not is purely subjective and is based off of the western tonality that we all have been taught since the day we first heard a song, as early as while we were still in the womb. What Cage is saying is that there is no "natural" hierarchy of notes and we can learn new sounds to enjoy if we just keep our minds open.
xXReidABookXx 11 months ago 3
@xXReidABookXx you're correct there about learning and finding a new kind of sound pleasing to the ear, But Cages music causes me Pain (as in ear-aches), so maybe that is not an option, I still have other composers that Bend tonality without breaking it (well very close to but without). . .
OCUBOX 11 months ago
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OCUBOX 1 year ago
Everyone should also remember that much of his music were scores to dances!
AlwaysAbiggerFish 1 year ago
You visualized this music very well and interesting !
plexihout 1 year ago
cage's best
derekpiotr 1 year ago
Each time this piece is played, is the piano prepared differently? Are the preparations for the piano written into the score or does the pianist have free reign?
In any case Cage was a true great at writing for this instrument-the best piano pieces are ones that remember that the pianoforte is percussion.
Waldvogel91 1 year ago
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lemonkerd 1 year ago
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@Waldvogel91
The scores for each piece come with instructions on preparing the piano. However some ambiguity arises from Cage being very specific with positions of materials in terms of distance from the hammers etc, but he makes no allowances for different sizes of piano or screws. So kind of yes and kind of no.
lemonkerd 1 year ago
@Waldvogel91 The preparations are scored. However, the composer discovered that he was not able to control the extent to which the scoring of the preparations were open to interpretation, nor could he control the physical instrument which was to be modified. At first this disturbed him. Eventually, he embraced the differences in accord with the aesthetic he would later develop.
nobodady1 1 year ago
do I hear Stravinsky at 2:16? :3
DarkZekeX 1 year ago
@DarkZekeX A funny story-I did go to 2:16 and it did sound like a tribal Stravinsky phrase. About 30 seconds earlier I had put a CD in the laptop not knowing what was on it and it just autoplayed and soon after that particular part was heard in the prepared piano piece, the opening Bassoon solo from Le Sacre was playing from the speakers. So I heard Stravinsky at 2:16 and then again about half a minute later.
Waldvogel91 1 year ago
@Waldvogel91 XD
DarkZekeX 1 year ago
But labels--in music and otherwise--are how we identify things. It's how we describe new things to others; kind of a shorthand between humans for the connections that the brain makes between certain sounds, sights, etc. Labels can be damaging when used negatively--when you use them as an insult, or you exclude those who 'fit' in a certain label. But I think it would be pretty hard to abandon labels altogether.
doodlehh 1 year ago
@doodlehh I agree with what you're saying. the name isn't what's important. you can call it anything. the name is just there to distinguish ohe set of phenomena from another. but the labels are agreed upon simply so one person can explain the same set of phenomela to another and the other person will be able to understand what he's talking about. the problem arises when one starts taking it too seriously and thinking the label is actually and thing in and of itself.
mightyafrowhitey 1 year ago
Syvilla Fort, John Cage..excellent......great paintings of Syvilla Fort .One by Ruth Kreps ,another by Ebba Rapp and another by Al Doggett
flintstoner80 1 year ago
So fun! I love how the first movement has that gamelan effect going on! And love how the tunnings are changed by so many differents items inserted into the piano. It gives it such a round robust sound it's like a bunch of different instrument were created because of the different items! soo fun! Wahooo! :)
mrjjbrown 1 year ago
strange song. John Cage was the master of the innovation. YiKing powa =D
neverar01 1 year ago
'I don't want a sound to pretend it's a bucket, or a president, or in love with another sound... I just want it to be a sound'
Such an innovative composer.
ilovesteves 1 year ago
Ok people, "Bacchanale" was the 1st piece Cage composed for the prepared piano in 1940. Syvilla Fort was graduating the Cornish School, WA and had to put together a dance performance and percussion couldn't fit in the performance hall but a grand piano could. Fort asked Cage for music and he gave her "Bacchanale," dance music.
--sister of a kid
planbsk8r23 1 year ago
I am in love with how this sounds.
DearMyRachel 1 year ago
This is actually quite awesome! I love how John Cage just looked and took his idea of music into a whole new direction
is there a Biography movie on him/his life? ...if not, there should be!
brentos96 1 year ago 2
it would be funny if john cage glued mozart to a chair and forced him to listen to this.
gattij1 1 year ago 3
@gattij1 heh. try the pope. or like, vivaldi or someone.
jonowonoponosono 1 year ago
I usually call Mr Cage a musical vandal, however I have to grudgingly admit that I rather like this.
Rattywotin 2 years ago
When was this recorded? Not composed, but recorded. I am aware of some of the story behind Cale's compositions during the time it was composed, but who recorded this and when?
AliveGuy33 2 years ago
wow this one is awesome
S3bz3r0 2 years ago
can somebody say..... GAMELAN?!?! HELL YEAH
pong224 2 years ago 15
@pong224 is exactly gamelan
progdandrea 5 months ago
Some day we all will be like John Cage. In the meantime, I think he would want us to enjoy hearing sounds, and probably not argue about them.
Mr. Cage did, by the way, study art, architecture and so forth, philosophy of Zen with Dr. D.T. Suzuki, and music with Arnold Schoenberg and others. It isn't as though his compositions came from a position of ignorance.
collaredtristan 2 years ago 15
@collaredtristan Sorry but when it comes to assessing art - the degrees and academic resume of the artist are completely and totally irrelevant.
TwentyTigers 9 months ago
Music can basically just be organized sound.
Forrester 2 years ago
Music is organized sound, what John Cage strived for was organizing sounds that shouldn't traditionally be "organized". Mozart is organized sound in pure form, John Cage is organized disorganized sound
MegaSpellchecker 1 year ago 2
Nice vid.. it does work well as film music, doesn't it. Re: the raging discussion here. Of course JC's (Cage, not Jesus) definition of music must have been mentioned already: "It's music if you think it's music". Sounds flip, but it's true! Music is in the perception, not the creation. Stravinsky said, in his "Poetics of Music" that birds do not make music, just animal sounds (how he knows is a mystery!). Birds don't make music for HIM, but do for others if they LISTEN for it! Case closed.
camaysar222 2 years ago 2
Elegantly stated! This will forever be my reply when someone disdainfully rejects one of the many beautiful sounds of this world.
Zedzilla 2 years ago
@lockedandlogan What about computer algorithms that are designed to compose music without human input? C major in common time from a computer cannot possibly be considered music, right?
gnargnarrads 2 years ago 2
I love it.
gargantuan13 2 years ago
A musician is a producer of sound, and that is what Cage is doing, producing sounds. Its called experimental for a reason, because the narrow minded see music in one dimension, while pioneers like cage bend our perceptions and make us rant and rave and blah, blah. I love Cage and his production of sound.
xM31x 2 years ago
I disagree. My music teacher has her doctorate, and she said as she grew up she asked all her teachers what the definition of music is and none of them know. Hell, even the prestigious "Grove Dictionary of Music and Musicians" doesn't have a definition for 'music.'
Regardless, after many years of searching and learning she said "Music is sound set to time." Very broad, but Cage falls in the category for the most part. Therefore, 4'33" and others are very controversial.
C33Four 2 years ago
I don't think a person can be accused of being narrow minded for disliking Cage's work. You say he is producing sounds, but music is not just "sounds" produced. There is a difference between producing sounds and producing music. Not everything can be considered music, because there are qualifications that need to be met. There needs to be rhythms, harmony, a melody, etc.
Also, if you have "heard" 4'33", Cage isn't producing sounds whatsoever.
lockedandlogan 2 years ago
cage produces rhythms. 4'33" he is producing sounds. he is producing reactions, he provokes ambiance, like C33Four stated, there is no definition for music. there does no need for rhythms, harmonies, or melodies to be music. that is merely the music you know. whos to say this sound is music and this sound is not. earsringing because of a loud noise. i feel that sound is music, as is the Jay-Z soing on your iPod. different music stimulating different minds. hence why the sound of rain is soothing
xM31x 2 years ago
I don't listen to Jay - Z.
He is clearly not producing sounds in 4'33". You argue that he is producing reactions, but to me, it seems more like a moment of silence that a principal might ask for at a high school. Just not as extensive. Is a principal a composer?
Even Schoenberg, his teacher, says he was not a composer. How can you argue against someone who would know him so well? Against someone who would know music so well?
lockedandlogan 2 years ago
@lockedandlogan Schoenberg said this of cage, "Of course he's not a composer, but he's an inventor—of genius." Cage studied harmony with Henry Cowell and Adolph Weiss in order to prepare a sufficient vocabulary to study with Schoenberg. Cage could not afford Schoenberg's lesson rates and out of admiration for Cage's enthusiasm, Schoenberg agreed to teach him for free. Schoenberg was only skeptical of Cage's compositional potential because his experience with Western harmony was limited.
gnargnarrads 2 years ago
trying to pin a definition on a social phenomenon is silly. The definition of music has always been changing.Cage was asking "what if we expand this definition, and the tool remains useful? What if we still hear organization, some kind of non-composed beauty?"
By writing an "empty" piece, he encouraged many to listen for the infinite beauty of the natural world. Don't wait for something to qualify as "music" to start paying attention. Try to question arbitrary distinctions like this.
psbjr 1 year ago 2
Speaking of 4'33 have you actually listened to a performance of this piece or are you simply going on the short definition? Cage is producing sound, listen to the orchestra musicians, they are making natural sound: shuffling of papers, whispers. This silence is not the negation of sound, its the growing ground for natural sounds, a nest for natural improv. By the way, fuck your opinion that music needs to be regulated, this is blasphemy against creativity.
deadinapark 2 years ago
@deadinapark I listened to most of it, but then I got bored. Telling people to not do shit for 4'33" is not making music. It's not doing anything. I hear natural sound every day of my life. It'd be like me turning a fucking faucet on and calling it music. I'd call it art and douches like you would come hear it despite the fact that they hear it damn near every day. And I didn't say that music needs to be regulated, so fuck you. I haven't said Cage isn't creative.
lockedandlogan 2 years ago
And why shouldn't we appreciate what we hear everyday, for its aesthetic qualities? Yes you did say that music should be regulated. You put requirements on it and so you are regulating it. I don't think a person who gets enjoyment out of listening to these sounds is a "douche", ridiculous insult by the way. I don't think people who enjoy popular composers are douches. I don't think I'd be listening to any of your faucet sounds, nor any music you might make. Nor would I consider it art.
deadinapark 2 years ago
@deadinapark We should appreciate what we hear every day, but nobody should get famous for pointing it out. That's ridiculous. I didn't say it should be regulated, I'm just saying somebody should actually put forth some effort in making music instead of saying, "Here listen to ambience." And you're the one who started being a prick, I was being civilized, but I'm so sorry you don't like my insults. You'd consider it art if John Cage did it, though, I'm sure. If only I were a genius like him.
lockedandlogan 2 years ago
I'm tired of arguing that you were regulating music by defining it. You obviously won't accept that. I'm well convinced myself that by defining music you limit it, in effect, constrained to certain rules, "must have melody, harmony, rhythm". I'm sorry about your self esteem problem. Maybe one day you'll be just like John Cage, but in the meantime try not to sounds so whiny about it.
deadinapark 2 years ago
@deadinapark I forgot that the internet doesn't have a sarcasm detector for morons.
lockedandlogan 2 years ago
@lockedandlogan John Cage's pieces all used extremely detailed and thought out rhythmic devices in order to indicate changes of sections, themes and motifs, you can't hurl abuse and claim to understand it when you are only skimming the surface, he believed in 'micro/macro' composition which basically means creating a piece of music that follows the shape of a 'fractal'. Therefore mathematically all his sections rhymically corresponded to a number that indicated how many beats would make up ....
ilovesteves 1 year ago
@ilovesteves (continued)... motifs, periodic phrasing and lengths of sections. These were used on most of his prepared piano pieces, however not on 4:33s which was essentially a piece of abstract art. I study him on my music course... in case you are wondering why I know so much... Just because he was the first person to do something that now seems fairly obvious because musical trends over the last 50 odd years have taken influence from him doesn't change the fact that it was groundbreaking.
ilovesteves 1 year ago
@ilovesteves In what way is that superior to something enjoyable to hear?
lockedandlogan 1 year ago
@lockedandlogan that is only your opinion, I like the prepared piano pieces, but he also made a few pieces for regular piano and they are much more musical, I advise you to check a few of them out too.
ilovesteves 1 year ago
@ilovesteves I wouldn't say they are mose "musical." more melodic perhaps. but that's a different matter...
mightyafrowhitey 1 year ago
@mightyafrowhitey haha oops, was quite a while ago, yeah... I think I meant in terms of that guy saying anyone could make it. Less mathematical and strict or something like that.. I need to learn a bit more about the later stuff though, because it probably could be as methodical...
ilovesteves 1 year ago
Comment removed
lockedandlogan 2 years ago
@deadinapark I have no issue viewing him as an artist, and I think many of his pieces do qualify as music, but 4'33" is not music. Art? Definitely. Creative? You bet. Music? No way.
lockedandlogan 2 years ago
@lockedandlogan You have failed to define a standard of measure for quantifying the necessary control of rhythm and pitch. Specifically how much rhythm, harmony and melody are required for an aural experience to qualify as music? It's obvious Cage's point with 4'33" was that music exists even without our compositional input. "I don't like the cacophony of ambience, I like meticulously composed music" is a fair opinion but demanding that there is a definition for music will make you look stupid.
gnargnarrads 2 years ago
@gnargnarrads That sounded a lot more like being a smart ass than making an argument.
My point isn't that there needs to be a definition for music, my point is that you have to actually create something for it to be music. I have no problem acknowledging the majority of Cage's work as music, but 4'33" is not. He doesn't create anything and I think he'd agree that that's the point. It may be a nice concept or thought but without actually composing sounds it isn't music.
lockedandlogan 2 years ago
Gnargnarrads made a good argument,
Within the constraints you have listed:
How much of a certain quality should a series of sounds have until it is considered music by you? You should have an idea since you seem rather anal about what music means to you.
deadinapark 2 years ago
@deadinapark Then perhaps you should take a look at my response to his post.
lockedandlogan 2 years ago
@lockedandlogan Check out the score; I believe it's in two movements and each one says, "tacet." Cage composed the score and had it published. It's in the repertoire and whining about it on youtube isn't going to make it go away. "...because there are qualifications that need to be met. There needs to be rhythms, harmony, a melody, etc." "My point isn't that there needs to be a definition for music..." You like to play both sides of the fence.
gnargnarrads 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
So he wrote do nothing on paper. You fucking showed me.
Playing both sides of the fence, you being a twat and not listening to me explain myself, same thing, right?
Fuck you. You are so goddamned irritating.
lockedandlogan 2 years ago
You play both sides of the fence by saying, "music needs to meet my qualifications" and then by saying, "I never said music has to be defined." Good luck earning a music degree or otherwise convincing people that your personal taste is absolute.
gnargnarrads 2 years ago 2
@gnargnarrads And I understand his point in 4'33" and I agree that we should appreciate the little things that we sense, but by pointing that out he didn't create music. I listen to ambient noises every day and have before I learned of Cage's existence.
lockedandlogan 2 years ago
The music does exist, but he isn't creating it as much as making the listener aware of something they didn't create. It would be like teaching somebody to play an instrument, them playing something and you claiming you composed it. Interesting concept, but I wouldn't call it composition.
chazmeistro 2 years ago
im going to a concert tonight that celebrates john cages birthday, i cant wait!!
applepotamous1 2 years ago
Great version! And nice video to match! Well played...!
thesleepye 2 years ago
I have personally worked very hard learning my instrument. Whereas I might not enjoy listening to Cage's music all of the time, I feel I understand it. You have to really accept it for what it is, Cage wouldn't have wanted it any other way. To quote Cage, ""The first question I ask myself when something doesn't seem to be beautiful is why do I think it's not beautiful. And very shortly you discover that there is no reason."
TheShredworthy 2 years ago 2
I agree with you that judging music on a basis of in-the-box/outside-of-the-box is a fairly wretched way of looking at music since it basically imposes a very limited set of ideals upon one's aesthetic sensibility. I am extremely critical of Cage's work because his work sounds like the gimmicky noodlings of a non-talented grade-schooler and is shoved in peoples' faces with labels of "groundbreaking" and "genius." Aesthetic viewpoints should not be boxed in, but there should be limits to openness
cleomagoolando 2 years ago
Well worded opposition to Cage is not common. I don't agree with you but I feel good to better understand the more conservative outlook.
gnargnarrads 2 years ago
Comment removed
banana85yahoo 2 years ago
I like how people say this isn't music. they're so cool for saying that
madpop17 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
This IS undoubtedly music. It's just not very good. Without the screws and bullshit shoved in the strings, this would be pretty much be any half-talented high-schooler pushing random keys and occasionally playing some pattern. It strikes me as being just as noodly and worthless as his piece for toy piano. For being the only works of his that actually resemble music and aren't just philosophical ideas and aleatoric bullshittery, these pieces are pretty pathetic and immature.
cleomagoolando 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Before anyone flames my opinion, I may as well mention that when I first started playing piano and guitar during my childhood, I made dozens of hideous cassette recordings where I would just play stuff like this (silly patterns and intervals, bits of exercises, other random noises that sounded curious). I know I'm not the only one who's been there. In that regard, passing shit this off as serious music is insulting to musicians who work their asses off learning about instruments, players, etc...
cleomagoolando 2 years ago
I hardly see how its insulting. its new, its different, its original, but it is NOT insulting.
mahler151 2 years ago
Learn music history. Cage was commissioned to write music inspired by a gamelan orchestra for a dance exposition and space was horrendously limited. As a result, Cage worked with what resources were available to him and implemented prepared piano; he ended up in the forefront of the avant-garde music scene. Check out a recording of his composition 4'33," I think you'll like it a lot.
gnargnarrads 2 years ago
@gnargnarrads
rofl at 4:33
BillyShears1600 2 years ago
I dont why people are questioning whether this particular song can be defined as music or not. John cage has many songs which are harder to listen to than this one. This ones actually quite catchy.
Jerdna3 2 years ago 2
"You can't always write a chord ugly enough to say what you want to say, so sometimes you have to rely on a giraffe filled with whipped cream."
Frank Zappa
Seems relevant to what everyone has said in the comments :D
INFx13 2 years ago 4
How then would you define music? I would think that music is organized sound by whatever medium to produce a sonority, which is usually intended to be according to the desires of the creators involved or perhaps even not so. Or one could also define music as an experiment in sound and sonority; to see how different sounds behave one with another. Any thoughts?
tffowles 2 years ago
Its a consertina of vibration silently enveloped between 2 objects,when the object is touched the envelope opens and the vibration is heard as music.......
88jester 2 years ago
this is not music,but cage is true genius..
mekuchika 2 years ago
Lawl
s1m0n54y5 2 years ago
:P ....
mekuchika 2 years ago
One can hear the influence of gamelan music in the use of preparation and the microtones. Brilliance!
DannyDaWriter 2 years ago 3
bacchanal - drunken revelry
keeping that in mind, this piece doesn't sound that weird
dch111 2 years ago 2
Some of John Cage's stuff is hideous to me.
But is that what he tried to do? Possibly, probably, who ever said music was always gorgeous and light hearted, like painting it is as hard to paint something pretty rather something extremely hideous. Think about it. People try by throwing paint at a canvas, but never succeed.
Some snobs here like to think they love JC's music, it's the emperors new clothes effect. But if you can listen to it every day and genuinely like it, respect.
UberTroll13 2 years ago 4
At best his 'music' would make an interesting background to some offbeat or dark movies. As stand alone music it has no value whatsoever though. Fundamentally it is 'noise' not music. If you regard every noise in the world as music then, ok Cage is music, but personally i don't. If you want something 'hideous' there are plenty of the great composers who have acheived that, eg... Liszt'z Mephisto Waltz, Bartok's sonata 1st mov ..but these are still MUSICAL pieces of genius.
jegspillerpiano 2 years ago
"The first question I ask myself when something doesn't seem to be beautiful, the first question I ask is 'why do I think it's not beautiful?'... If we can conquer that dislike, or begin to like what we did dislike, then the world is more open.
That path of increasing one's enjoyment of life is the path I think we all best take. To use art not as self expression, but as self alteration. To become more open."
-John Cage
guestinformant9 2 years ago 3
utter weirdness.....
Irelandlass7789 2 years ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
This music is bad. I'm only listening to it because I have to for my GCSE Music Course. It's so inordinately hidious, it should be considered as music.
Bexxlb 2 years ago
yeah sure you caveman.. go and tell that to arnold schönberg..
yeudotube 2 years ago
haha nice. And how is this hideous doesn't sound dissonant at all to me. He was a genius. This sounds percussive anyway how can it sound any uglier than drums that is in like everything
aricarends 2 years ago
It's modern music, it's not meant to be pleasant for listening.
It's music for the eyes, for the mind, but there is a thin line between music and performance. Modern music I would put with performance.
You don't have to enjoy or even like it, just like anything else.
And you can't argue that it sounds hideous to him/her :P
I think that the idea and performance is genius, but to put it on my mp3...
dado1802 2 years ago
Being John Cage it surprisingly traditional and tonal.
W4RW017 2 years ago
I would but he's dead and all, but then again you probably don't know that because you don't have to study these people in detail for a flaming qualification in Music.
Bexxlb 2 years ago
I do- my exam's this afternoon. Still love this music though, it's fascinating what you can make instruments do with just a little tweaking..
aimsme 2 years ago
suck it
mixmasterlees 2 years ago
quartal voicings @ 3:30? reminds me of maiden voyage!
kevinm4435 2 years ago
Beautiful.
Fucking beautiful.
coaster1000 2 years ago
Interesting, and to some degree skilled.
Doesn't quite mean it is good.
It emotes [and is emotive] and makes one think, but still, I wouldn't call it "good".
I'd be lying if I said I was pleased at how experimental music has gotten ever since Schoenberg (even though I like Schoenberg). If Cage is the apex of such a movement, frankly, I hope the pendulum starts to swing back in the other direction.
I'll always love so-called "traditional" music more, but I find this stuff a little interesting.
emperorIng360 2 years ago 2
I find that it's good for writer's block
kylecasp 2 years ago
Great work! The video was amazing! Just minimal enough to invoke thought. The piece shines through it all. Kind of Zen. The interpretation of the piano piece is stellar. Of any John Cage videos I've seen tonight, this one stands out. Love it for maybe a fabulous screen saver!!
heysailer 2 years ago
Wonderful rendition of Cage's piece. I think you heard well the musicality in the complex rhythms Cage was after and you prepared the piano perfectly.
SphericSenseS 2 years ago
I love the energy in the first portion of this piece!
BlueManIan 2 years ago
amazing
joshandtheaddiction 2 years ago
I'm just glad Bach wasn't alive to hear John Cage
purplehaze0120 2 years ago
In a way Bach would be very shocked but also he would be amazed because of the profound technique.
limunovapita 2 years ago 9
i often have people they dont like like 'modern classical' because they dont understand it, or its just dissonant noises. You dont 'understand' it too enjoy it. If you want to understand it go and take some musical theory lessons, otherwise just listen, for me the whole pleasure in music comes from just hearng it. if the sounds give me pleasure, i like it, regardless of how 'different' or 'dissonant' it may be. Just listen and enjoy, you dont have to understand. lovely piece by the way
frosty956 3 years ago 6
The problem is that people feel the need to be opinionated and tell everyone how they feel. It's unwarranted self importance.
I'd like to quote Frank Zappa on the subject of this video: "Sounds are for listening to. Composition is the act of organizing sounds."
Pyrofries 2 years ago
isnt telling every one how you feel the whole point of having a comment system on youtube though?
frosty956 2 years ago
Would you go to a funeral and tell everyone that you thought the deceased was an asshole?
I think the commenting feature on youtube is totally useless. I've never seen such an awful community.
Pyrofries 2 years ago 5
if i thought they were an asshole, i would be unlikely to go to their funeral. People are entitled to their opinions, you shouldnt critisize their opinions, but if you want to have a go at them for expresing them in a particular place, that seems fine. in any case, people wont stop opinionating themselfs on you tube, so you might as well give them your opinion as well.
frosty956 2 years ago
You're right, but I'm taken aback by how people tend to stir up shit for the simple fact of stirring shit up.
Pyrofries 2 years ago 2
It's called 'trolling' sir. Observe;
That's your opinion you moron, and you're posting your opinion on a fucking YouTube video.
HarryPuntCunnington 2 years ago
cool story bro
Pyrofries 2 years ago 2
the simple fact that his music even today causes such strong opinions or feelings either way shows that he has done his job excellently. even if someone hates it, if they react so profusely to it he still affected you and pulled your emotional strings. besides, i happen to personally find it great music.
RockandRollandSports 3 years ago 7
Prepared piano was a genial intuition!
sousukesagaraJKD 3 years ago
I can't stop listenting to this. It's full of energy, nevertheless, it's simple.
lorenzarthur91 3 years ago
john cage for the trus is za ma finda from the every wer thus glover and spice some kinda bear. i hope solo from the us navy that he can lie everybody from thuz ma kokop chabala in das grausen
Mastabi 3 years ago
if you listen to cage speak, he refers to his preference of sound without intentions. if you look at the broader spectrum of his work you can see he progressed farther away from "traditional" composition, using chance procedures to make decisions for him. I believe cage would laugh at this dialogue for attempting to define the sounds that his physical presence is responsible for making. he would likely prefer not to hold this responsibility because it allows people to avoid actually listening
mattripley 3 years ago 4
john cage. i am just getting to know him. obviously i should have done this a long time ago. the video is stylish and a little bit retro. it suits the music. or piano mechanics. words words words.
martingerup 3 years ago
to say that this work isnt absolutely GREAT is just to deny the obvious. this isnt even very "noisey" at all by modern standards. and the video is PERFECT for it. you haters seriously.... get over your hang ups, noone else cares in 2008
LackingLack0 3 years ago
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its really not that obvious. he wrote one fucking phrase. this song if he is any kind of good musician shouldve taken him 3 hours tops to write. How can you slap?
khbgkh 3 years ago
tracerprod your videos are a joy!
I've watched most of your work now, and your videos suit the music very well.
Let's stop arguing about the relative worth of modern composers and just enjoy the music and video.
A big thumbs up to tracerprod! ;)
guitarmanK1982 3 years ago 3
...and if you think to see work of art everywhere, you're a boorish simpleton.
laurion69 3 years ago
...and if you think you can walk around saying what's art and what isn't, you're a misguided pseudo-intellectual.
ctdjazz 3 years ago 4
Not all works you try to make art become art.
laurion69 3 years ago
Says who? Who has this ultimate guidebook regarding what is art and what isn't?
ctdjazz 3 years ago 7
Everyone and noone.
Respect that you have differing views of what is art, and let time decide for you. At least that way we don't have to hear a lot of bickering over nothing. :-)
DizzahGee 3 years ago
Art isn't in its definition but in our perception of it.
antetdi 3 years ago 3
Writing something does not make anyone a writer or a poet.
Cage's compositions are banal, poor, repetitive and boring.
Unfortunately it is not enough to put some nail on the harp of a piano and to repeat the same simple bar again and agian to be a good composer.
laurion69 3 years ago
is something elses, thing about his music like an abstract pinting
karoloandria 3 years ago
I always think abstract music is different from abstract paintings because they are nice to look at. I'm on the edge about John Cage as a composer, I respect his music, but I'm not sure if I consider him good or not.
Knaves13 3 years ago
john sayed the music is just noise (or something like that) the music is a way of art, the art is how the artist express himself, tray to understand his ideas troug his "noise" and you will see what's he is talking about
karoloandria 3 years ago
yes I agree with you. there are cool works
like this and the sonatas and interludes (actually they remind me a little bit of stravinsky). but if you 'listen' to the variations III, you realize that they are just a silly modern-conceptual performance
morelli6 3 years ago 2
Cages compositions to some are poor, to others, interesting.
his compositions are structured really cleverly, making him a good composer. He is not just a 'good composer' because of what you said:
"put some nail on the harp of a piano and to repeat the same simple bar again and agian"
he's good because he thinks about timbre and tone. Some of his pieces for prepared piano can be related to Indonesian Gamelan music for example.
John Cage isn't a poor composer, to think that is ignorant.
Johnjy2 3 years ago 4
To some Cage's compositions are distasteful, to others, brilliance.
No matter what your opinion is, his compositions are not poor.
You may think that he has just put a nail on strings of the piano, however, his prepared piano can be closely related to Indonesian Gamelan music. Not only does Cage think about timbre and tone, but his structuring of his compositions are so intelligent, which often baffles people.
To think that Cage is a poor composer is ignorant.
Johnjy2 3 years ago 3
Essence of art.
dfdgfdgf0000 3 years ago 2
Very nice video - the images work very well with the sound. I'm a big fan of Cage's music, and this video fits the piece nicely. It's depressing to read the uninformed commentary on here, but there's no point in trying to have a battle of the wits with unarmed oponents.
BulbousAlsoTapered 3 years ago 2
mechanical music
karoloandria 3 years ago
Cage was a very limited composer, if composer he can be defined.
laurion69 3 years ago
and you ar limitaded in imagination
karoloandria 3 years ago
Imagination is not to see works of art everywhere.
laurion69 3 years ago
snob, is the imagination of john cage, coz he imaginate diferent
karoloandria 3 years ago
Why shouldn't we see the art in everyday life? Why, just about anything can become a meaningful work of art with a change of perspective. Life becomes a lot more interesting when you take up an artistic frame of mind, trust me.
normloman 3 years ago
He composed therefore he was, no if's no but's. He was something different and in order to fully understand all music i think you really need to understand and respect this music.
daveisgr81 3 years ago
People make me laugh, they come on here, apparently educated, then make statements like Tchaikovsky is superior, or Rachmaninoff should be held in higher regard.
Here is music created autonomously, and people still try to use it as a platform to demonstrate their 'advanced understanding' in some sort of competition.
Revoltz7, congratulations on having an opinion, but you are revealed by your bias and use the term "true art" when it is apparent you haven't understood it.
retrocell 3 years ago
I admire a lot of Cage's music & philosophy, and this is a fine piece (certainly evocative of its title!); but I don't really see what the big deal with the prepared piano is. People have been "preparing" keyboard instruments in some fashion since the invention of harpsichord & organ registers. Sometimes it seems people take an almost fetishistic view of prepared instruments, which I think is a rather aesthetically unhealthy approach.
p0lyph0ny 3 years ago
I agree. People love this song because it is "one of the first songs to use prepared piano" but they ignore what the song is all about. Cage didn't write this to show of some piano trick.
normloman 3 years ago
does anyone know how this piano is prepared? i do a lot of prepared piano myself and am looking for new tricks. :)
thanks.
mxdblessing 3 years ago
man this is actually pretty cool to listen too!
kingstravinsky101 3 years ago 3
quite nice!
saintdracula 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I can't stand Cage. He pushes artistic license too far.
WaffenKartoffel 3 years ago
The point of 'artistic license' is that it can never be pushed to far.
19Redvers90 3 years ago 25
Or to put it another way: the point of artistic license is that it allows the artist to push our accepted ideas about life further than is usually possible, perhaps further than is comfortable for us. If that means the artist must sometimes go 'too far' for some listeners, so be it.
p0lyph0ny 3 years ago
Very true, that's all down to the open mindedness of the individual. Art is art as long as someone person percieves it as being so.
19Redvers90 3 years ago 2
"Music without measurements,/ sounds passing through circumstances." (Octavio Paz about John Cage's music.)
Demogorgon28 3 years ago 3
This comment has received too many negative votes show
It's lovely. If anyone doesn't like it, they are simple minded and do not understand its richness. Excuse me while I shit in a soup can and sell it.
theshabazz 3 years ago
I see what you did there.
TunnelHappy 3 years ago 3
I love the music, love the video - very aesthetically pleasing. Seems to me your video is a wonderful blend of intent and chance - like what John Cage did. And what are our lives but a product of the blending our intentions and chance?
limerent1 3 years ago
That looks like the first start of ubuntu on my old computer;)
However, I like the music very much. But in my opinion, it would be nice if the video reacted to the sounds. Though, it gives the music a soft and round continuity which is lovely!
Yetipfote