Thats interesting and terrible. Its true alot of Americans are ignorant of the world and even theri own country. But I dont think the powers that being are helping on that front. In fact I think they are promoting the stupor-like state that is at large in America, inall likely-hood because the comatose and dumb make easy for hosts and patsies. The governments of our world don't want us to learn of attrocity because they know we will logically connect the dots that shed lighton similareventshere
En todo caso nunca se comprobo: los indicios, el movil, el beneficio por el cual se comete el crimen y el 5 de abril fue una medida extrema que se vio obligado a aplicar para poder implantar las leyes tan necesarias para el pais. Lo horrendo es que la oposicion se una para destruir la imagen de una persona sin importarles el dano que causan a la Nacion porque venden a los peruanos como estupidos que justificamos aberraciones por un pedaso de pan. Son tan sinverguenzas y pretenden tapar el sol c
Tomese en cuenta que Fujimori fue condenado con indicios y no con pruebas y como vas ha demostrar esos indicios que fujimori utilizo violencia para derrotar el terrorismo cuando el creo leyes a la cual los ciudadanos se someten para vivir en paz a eso se llama civilizacion. Los que desobedecen las leyes son delincuentes y van a la carcel pero sus enemigos dicen que el creo un gobierno delincuente y que puso a un monton de gente inocente a la carcel. no conosco uno inocente que haya ido .
I've got to say you make some good points in the video. It just seems so hard for people nowadays to look at not just what he did but what his reason for his actions were. The whole situation in Peru needed 'tough' actions and he did what he felt needed to be done and on the whole it made some improvements. Its a shame really that he's being jailed, but i guess since i wasn't living in Peru at the time, I can't really comment on how it effected the public and maybe he should be jailed.
No matter how much your hate blinds you, it is impossible to deny his simply awesome accomplishments. I find it sad that he is hated (by some people) more than the ...terrorists he defeated. Perhaps it's because he was so effective in everything he did: he exposed the utter worthlessness of his opposition ...
Situation demands response according to the situation. If an armed thug breaks into my house I will try to kill him to protect me and my family, but I am a pacifist; I wish for peace and love, but I am prepared for war and hate. If a country is completely in chaos and corruption, and someone tries to clean it up with love, it is quite likely that the someone will be "removed" by the "opposition".
I do not know anything about Peru, this is a general answer.
And I agree with you. But it's quite clear that very few situations warrant the formation of death squads that roam around threatening, kidnapping, torturing, and murdering people and their families. What Fujimori did is simply horrendous.
That might be correct. I am not informed about his regime at all. Don't misunderstand me, I mean I have no infomration, I did not know anything about Peruvian (?) politics before I saw this video. So I cannot comment on anything but general morality.
Los crímenes de guerra y crímenes de lesa humanidad (como los que kenya fujimori cometió) son inaceptables bajo cualquier circunstancia.
Me parece moralmente inaceptable que estos crímenes sean justificados.
La justicia peruana ha dado el ejemplo a la comunidad interancional al poner a un asesino y ladrón, (fujimori pronto estará bajo juicio por corrupción) tras las rejas
My point is simple: Fujimori actually helped Peru more than any President in recent history. You don't remember. You're probably too young. Peru was a mess in the 80s. You couldn't go anywhere. Military police were everywhere. Terrorist were everywhere.
Fujimori broke the law. I have no problem with him being punished.
I suppose that should be the rule. Go ahead and break the law if you are willing to go to jail for your actions. But it's simply sad that the only good president was also a bad one. All the other presidents were just bad. They accomplished nothing but filling their own bank accounts.
I went back every 2 years and I have lots of family there. You cannot appreciate how fucked up Peru was back then. It's easy to judge from your idealistic perspective.
You can think I am stupid. As long as you go to the trouble of thinking. I don't think you're stupid. I have no opinion of you.
The ends justify the means, as long as it's someone else who does the sacrificing.
My thought. If I benefited from the change, I'd praise him. If one of the people he murdered was a friend or family member, there would be no bigger villain in the world, and I would seek to destroy him.
In short, if he murdered, he's a murderer, and deserves to be in jail. You can't make exceptions for people just because you like the end result.
Great Men (if they are at all ethical) often make hard descions based on the "Greater Good". Ithought this video was thought provoking and definately worth watching!,
I didn't mean "haha" funny, I just meant odd sounding, sorry I guess I don't run into people who have the combination Spanish and Japanese accents as much as you do, forgive me.
This is an example that would be best put in the context of Saul Alinsky's book, "Rules for Radials" where he spends a whole chapter discussing when the ends justifies the means during a conflict. Perspective definately is influenced by which side of the conflict you are on.
Comparing Stalin to Alberto is ridiculous, he turned Ukraine into one huge concentration camp. He starved many, many people, while he lived in luxury. Stalin did no good, and if there was good, it was unintentional.
That being said, I agree with you Victor, sometimes you need to be cold and hard in order to pull people out of their own drudgery. People can "ooo" and "aaah" about the victims but from what you've been saying it sounds like there's been victims in Peru long before Alberto came.
Also, Stalin didn't even really use communism, he twisted it so much it's been coined as "Stalinism" which is a blend of communism and a dicatorship, basically he took all of the good out of communism and brought in the worst of dictatorship.
I guess it's okay if you're willing to offer yourself or your daughters up to forced sterilization.
How one deals with conflict is through diplomacy and peace talks - keeping the corruption of Western Nations out as well as the CIA and other wayward intelligence outfits.
It's called civilization.
30 years wasn't enough. however, let's hope his conviction says never again.
I'll hand it to the Peruvians they have more guts than the Americans when it comes to convicting their corrupt leaders
I remember watching fujimori on the news every day about 15 years ago when that shit was going down, not on american tv of course, but on the spanish-language channels.
It's sad that I would never have heard of this if it wasn't for you. Why is it only the Middle East that the world "cares" so much about? I think that this kind of thing happens when the world ignores other country's problems. Then they are forced or feel they are forced to find questionable resolutions.
Hmm.. I actually had heard of this and had a similar discussion with a friend of mine (is also from Peru) a little while ago.
And yeah Victor, this is a difficult one. I mean, right off the bat I'm comfortable saying.. No, absolutely not - under no circumstances is a one human being entitled to step across the boundaries of another human's rights.
But taking into account the situation - the war that was constantly being ignored, I see your point clearly. Drastic measures. *cont.
*- I wouldn't be the first to jump up on a soap box and defend Fujimori's reasons or motives. But at the same time I see his reasons/motives and even understand them.
Its a tough one. Yes, I'd want him to be sent to prison if it was MY sister he had forcefully sterilized - Yet still, his "crimes" and their motives, however abundant they may be, are not the kind of acts you can really knock the man for are they? You could instead, respect him for being bold enough to actually doing something.
Not sure I agree with you Victor, steralization for the poor? Single mothers are the largest burden on society. even worse than smokers and the fags, Maybe your right. lol
The end sure as hell justifies the means!! If you dont believe me ask president Truman when he order to drop "Fat Man" and "Little Boy" killing a total 220.000 japanese people.
As I understand it, the A-bomb being dropped, if we were counting lives on a scoreboard, saved more lives than were incinerated/atomized. Is that a misconception? (I am NOT baiting or being sarcastic.)
equivalent exchange sure. But please bare in mind that there is never a greater good. Only a good, a Grey, and an evil. greater good is just a double positive.
That was the intention I know. But I have heard conflicting things about the severity of combat. I read (awhile ago) that we didn't have any large scale missions several months prior to dropping the bombs. Also the emperor wanted to surrender, but certain generals and military people didn't want that to happen.
I haven't taken a class about it though, so my information could be entirely false. Also most of the lives were innocent civilians. That we do know. The places were militarized.
I agree with you, there is no way to fight terrorism without collateral damage. Conservatives have to do their work before liberals can nicen the place up. It takes both.
It's a tough call. I don't approve of Bush's extra-constitutional actions or his treaty violations. I don't think they improved the lives of Americans at all. Maybe Fumjimori did make Peru better. Mussolini made trains run on time. Aside from Fujimori, even "little brown people" at some point deserve the rule of law. Maybe it takes breaking laws to get there. I don't know.
I feel torn, on the one hand using violence as a strategy to create order and peace is not a standard I would want to ever subscribe to, then again..... I can't even bring myself to type such a thought.
On the contrary, I think this is one of your more interesting and thought-provoking posts. When is murder/forced sterilization/kidnapping/"disappearing" people held acceptable? The only response would be "Acceptable to whom?"
It's evidently acceptable to Americans (and members of any other nation), if we are to assess consent by inaction. Sad truth is that we're all such a bunch of apathetic egocentrists that anything's fine, as long as it doesn't interfere directly with, say, football or TV.
Sorry, I had no idea it was that bad in Peru. Anyways, the American press hasn't pointed out anything like this. As for Fujimori getting imprisoned, I think what he did was totally justifiable if the things that are happening in Peru are as bad as you say they are. I think that given the circumstances, I would probably have taken simliar actions.
I think if everybody's quality of life is better now, and he didn't like... completely destroy his people to achieve it... I think it's acceptable. It's sort of a gray area. I think sometimes , the end justifies the means. But sometimes the quality of life you gain is outweighed by what you've done to the quality of life to achieve it (killing A LOT of people, etc.).
It sounds like he did a decent job though. I'm with you on this one.
Heh, let my friend hear this; I don't think her pride could handle it, lol (she's Peruvian btw). You have to accept that no place is perfect, and we all have our own issues and stereotypes.
but your lecture is really deep. corruption really sucks too. but i agree with you, that guy deserves some credit trying to clean up all those mess....
Here in Mexico we were going to put in jail a president, his name is Luis Echeverria Alvarez and he is guilty for the genocide from 1968, olympics year, mexico is host, there was a student march going on, and he needed to stop it so the world could see mexico's good side, so he decided to gather all the students at one plain spot and ordered the army to open fire towards them, this is not that detailed but if you like to find out google it or something, most of the students were minors though.
And you are right,there was not other way to do it,it was either the bad way or the worst way,but what bothers me is ...why the fuck he came back,why...that my friend doesnt make any sense.
That's what we need over there in Venezuela,some alberto fujimori,I was living in peru for like three years,back then when fujimori was president and I was there a few years ago,and believe me I saw the difference
i just watched 'taxi to the dark side' and it was even more eye opening about my nations (USA), administration. with peru i think the leader overall seemed to be deemed a dirty harry that wanted to clean up but i think perhaps refinements could have been made. i am still vague on the backstory of this....
Sí, sí, me gustó mucho cuando controló los de Sendero Luminoso en la toma del palacio y acabó con ellos finalmente....y ahora esto es lo que le dan...como dirian por ahi "Así paga el Diablo a quien bien le ha servido"
Why did your parents move to America when you were 1? I would assume to have a better life. As I said before I don't know anything about the siutation in Peru, but people should have the freedom to live in peace and have basic human rights. A political corrupt leader only breeds a corrupt society.
Corruption only breads more corruption. Education and empowerment reduces corruption. Look at some the the police forces in the world to see how corruption has been reduced. In relation to Guantanamo bay, this system of detention is unethical and was unacceptable. That is why Obama has ordered it to be closed. Torture by means of conformity is not acceptable. Guantanamo bay was found to be unconstitutional.
I had a Chilean roommate in University who was a fan of Pinochet. I found it hard to believe. The guy killed so many people. He came to power in a cou supported by the CIA, over a democratically elected leader. He was a shameless fascist.
I don't know anything about the situation in Peru (only from what I've seen on your video). But I would say if you live in society that has to bribe police (even if you haven't done anything wrong) is corruption. People shouldn't have to live in a society of this nature. Where do you draw the line with war (you ask). Even in a war there is war guidelines/policy (though I can't remember the correct name off the top of my head). That is why some people are trialed for war crimes.
I don't know much about this, but a president who commits crimes (murder and sterilization?!) to combat lawlessness and corruption deserves jail time. So he solved problems. He still didn't make society more lawful. Any society that disrespects the law is doomed to failure and chaos in the end. The law is a tool, not an obstacle.
I consider Gitmo and the like as very, very severe crimes that Bush absolutely deserves to go to jail for. I applaud Peru for confronting its dirty past.
I'm afraid to say, as you rightly surmised, that I know very little aout Peru's socio-political history. But I wouldn't say I don't care. Perhaps the international media doesn't care so much and that's why we hear so little about Peru?
Accountability in a job like President is crucial but you're right that, in some extreme situations, things may be needed to be done that one can't necessarily morally account for later on.
I know nothing about Peru....so this was really interesting to listen too....yah know, I had this thought too..."standard of living"....the standard of living was much better in Iraq with Hussein. 20 years of no war, people living in peace and yet they were in prison, no freedom of rights and legal terrorism caused the death of the innocent to keep the people in fear...fear rules chaos..maybe this guy did bring some good things to Peru, maybe its better now but at what cost? I dont know. `Raven
Fuhimori may have done some good things for Peru. The fact remains that all the american continent is full of corruption. Peru is not the exception. I'm sure there are many people who would love to speak of the many deals that left him a lot of money and people know that's true, happens all over the world "corruption". He left the country for some reason, might that be because he knew he was guilty of something? think about it. Now he came back, it's true... why.
He might have thought nothing would happen if he'd tried to gain the presidency again. He approached it from Chile I believe, now isn't that strange?, he had all this planned, after all, money and power are things a man never has enough of, I think. It all backfired on him. Now look where he is. I don't wish him anything bad but I do believe the saying "an eye for an eye". You do things wrong and they come back to hunt you. Now, I'm an american who's parents are from Mexico.
All my life I kept hearing my parents about how corrupted it was down there and how people would love to send some of those expresidents to jail together with other political officials. So I think Fujimori might deserve this. Even if he did some good for Peru, I think he knew what was waiting for him when he came back. I guess is up to each of us to come up with an opinion, ofcourse with exsamining the facts first.
I'm adding this to my favorites so that I can look at it again when I'm not half asleep; hopefully I'll remember to make a real comment on this video. I find this sort of discussion to be very interesting.
I really don't condone what it sounds like he did. It sounds like he did a lot of things to a lot of people who had nothing to do with it. That doesn't mean I don't respect the guy a little.
Maybe it was the latest batman movie, but I have a decent amount of respect for somebody who will become the 'bad guy' for the greater good. I think you can see by him coming back and being sentenced that he knew what he did was wrong, and was willing to pay for it.
Alberto Fujimori built infrastructure, hospitals, schools for the poorest people living in the most outlying countryside.
You can ask a humble or the richest peruvian which president was best for Peru and everyone will answer "el Chino" ("the Chinese", Alberto Fujimori, although he is japanese, asian buddys are frequently called like that in Peru).
You are right about other countries trying their leaders, of course the US has done it before, never when it really matters though, but I guess it could be viewed the same here.
Still the idea that "the End Justifies the Means" is really dangerous talk around a really slippery slope, just like the idea of "Justice", and it may be juvenile to think other longer ways would be better, but that should be the ideal:
When it's too big for one, to have the people work as a whole...
I really don't know enough to make a decision one way or another. It just amazes me how you can stand on the soil of a country, and know absolutely nothing about it.
I went to Peru with my Spanish class, none of us knew anything about any political turmoil. Besides a lot of political graffiti. It was obvious that people were poor, and that the education was bad...
I don't know. Peru's such a beautiful place, and I have some good memories of it. It's sad to hear of such things happening there.
The reason he was tried was because under law, he was found guilty. Not to say many of his followers who committed the same acts aren't, but when you unleash these orders onto your nation in which you govern, guilty or not, you must take responsibility for them.
Incorrect, even though we follow a international law system biased on moral views, the greater good is nothing more then a failed principle. Justifying sterilization just because Peru isn't as ideal a country as it is, means anyone could go slip a knife into a pregnant ladies uterus if she was living in extremely violent and hostile conditions as long as it "helps" the overall good.
Don't ask, is it acceptable, this murder or that, people only respond to numbers, massacres brought into light by the media as a play things, ask, whether or not you yourself are going to justify one eye for another. I personally believe he did the right thing, but only for my own beliefs of population control.
I care but I haven't read up on this enough to comment extensively. Sounds like a "damned if he did, damned if he didn't" situation, but the sterilization thing...
One thing for certain, I have never envied those in power and I likely never will.
Your point's taken. The problem is, though, that "the greater good" means many different things to many different people. As an example, we are now in Iraq ostensibly because Bush deemed our involvement for "the greater good."
My family left Peru when I was a baby because of all the terrorism going on , we have to move to Argentina. My mother said she never thought she would go back and thanks to Fujimori Peru is a terrorist free country, has an amaizing economy, is doing very good, and we can go visit our family there. I agree with Machiaveli the end justifies the means. Look at the americans and their aromic bomb as a perfect example. Fujimori should be a free man and Peru should thank him.
i think it is wrong what he did. forced sterilization? that's just as bad as what's going on in china with the one child policy.
in regards to the IRA, IMO i wouldn't call it terrorism given the history between the irish and the english. the irish wanted the whole of their country unified.
the whole idea of a "united" kingdom is defunct given the independence of ireland. not to bash england but i'm of irish decent so i feel a kinship.
He's not exactly the first. Remember Pinochet, Hussein, and Milosevic have either died or been executed while being held due to their accused crimes.
If he's guilty, he ought to be tried by his own people and punished accordingly. The ends do not justify the means. Murder justified as collateral damage is one thing, kidnapping and forced sterilization is another.
The good he did and the crimes he committed need to all be taken into consideration. Ideally, the jury will be impartial.
I enjoyed this video and agree with you on your points of view. Very interesting topic. The world only hears what is told to them through the media. So much corruption occurs in politics, I am often a skeptic when it comes to believing what I hear/read as truth.
You're absolutely right that we only receive a very narrow window from the media. Unfortunately, the media today is nothing but a partnership pandering to the vapid demands of its public. Any medium offering up serious or stark, straightforward commentary on current issues would go bankrupt quickly in America's current Britney Spears/Paris Hilton Celebrityfest atmosphere. Hell, look at the medium you're watching now; YouTube would founder if not for stupid pet tricks and inane, insipid drama.
MSWmson, The sad thing is so many are gullible and are following, supporting, encouraging any media bunk that is fed to them. I often wonder...??? As for youtube, I find that I am exposed to so much I wouldn't have an opportunity to see and in many ways that is a plus :O)
Victor, your video made me think. I thought Fujimori was one of the bad guys. Many Hitler had some good points. Your argument seems to be because Peru is such a mess, you have to be less than a boy scout to be its President.
dont totally agree with you on fujimory, partly bc i dont think i know all about it, but what can i say i have evo en bolivia ese pedazo de pu.... but i think every country should deal with their own. but i dont believe that presidents should have any amnesty.
ironic isn't? good guys gets there ass kicked and bad guys get a slap on the wrist and he's on his way. Okay he wasn't a total good gay but mah woot u goin' to do about it.. . .. -__-" i h8 politics in general.
although i find Guantanamo bay acceptable. Aparantly president obama does not. i think i heard that there is a bunch of crazy people running free now. imo: if you cant do the time dont do the crime. the people who were sent there deserved it =\ plain n simple
I have a sneaking suspicion you are antagonising, but hey, thats how you work.
btw 4.35 ,I have to ask what you meant by 'some people call terrorism'. To clarify, are you not of the belief that what the IRA did was terrorism, or are you stating that in some eyes it wasn't considered so?
It is wrong, but ... we can argue that not telling them or encouraging birth control is wrong too. Not as bad but wrong. Did it help the economy? Did it reduce crime. Probably. Do I have a better answer? No. Would I have done it? No. Was he charged for it? No.
Birth control, is a right that all humans have. To take control from an individual is surely to dictate ones ideals upon them, and become a dictator, and to therefore become an aggressive (by proxy), and manipulator. My next question is this: Considering your heritage, before your father found his way in America when he did, and your mother was one of the sterilised, and you were your mothers father, how would you feel about the sterilisation process?
The ends justify the means. Thanks Victor. You said some thing more people should think about.
In a view years the bad deeds he did would be over weighed by the long term positive effect. All the people can live happier lives now. I really do agree with that concept, if one condition is met. The officials must have the best interest of the people at hart. I know NOTHING about this, but from what you said about him coming back I think he did.
I liked this video, politics can be interesting. It seems like he did what had to be done.
In the UK fairly recently we had the cash for honours scandal, the prime minister was questioned by police but as expected in the end i dont think anyone got charged for it. Not surprising at all.
I can't stop staring at the band aid... (something about Peru, knocked up, lack of education, Marxist terrorist groups, bribes, good uncles, bad cops, i would have sterilized the men, its a less invasive surgery ...brown people... crazy man goes to jail)... band aid...band aid... band aid
if it were up to the public in countries like the UK and america, people would have evry polatician that wronged them locked up, but ofc thats aginst human rights, which is something that most countries choose to ignore
Very interesting. I can't answer the question if it is right or wrong because I don't really know anything about what happened in Peru, but in general I think that extreme circumstances sometimes make it morally acceptable to say the ends justify the means, because sometimes an even greater catastrophe can only be prevented by questionable means.
Why did all the millionaires in Czechoslovakia go to jail after WWII? Not all of them got their money from profits directly related to the war but all of them went to jail. People often think that they are doing what is right in the name of *insert*. People don't often think before they act.
Re: Bush...Anyone who believes G.W. actually MADE any decisions or was the actual "leader" of anything probably has the same I.Q. as he does. The man was a puppet ! How can anyone justify his "re-election" for any other reason. The whole thing was a farce! The American people have no say in what the leaders decide. The leaders do just like the officers who stop Victor's uncle... they want the folded napkin.
I'm prolly gona get flamed as hell for not understanding this :P but what is the reason behind the photo of ken in the upper left corner? I couldnt hear victor talk about him at all in this video :/
there's a documentary on netflix called "The Fall of Fujimori", it's quite good, i don't get the title though because almost the whole time they talk about how he helped the country....
Therefore, what you are seeing today in Peru is a VERY good thing. Its a step in the right direction for Peru and the entire region. A region whose politics is generally decided by force as opposed to rule of law.
Finally asserting precedents for law and justice is the best thing LA nations can do to restore peace and prosperity, and the best place to start is with leaders who abused their power in the past.
Yes, certainly there is an ample amount of evidence linking Garcia in his first term to extensive connections with Paramilitary groups which committed human rights abuses, so the same standard should apply to him. In addition, he was abysmal at running the country. Its quite strange that he was elected again, but he was running against a crazy nationalist and a neoliberal corporatist, so it wasn't exactly a good choice.
Again, if LA nations want to straighten out the corruption and rampant disregard of human rights, you begin by prosecuting those responsible for past crimes. This has been done somewhat successfully in Argentina, and now to a degree in Peru. This needs to be done for rule of LAW to begin to supersede use of FORCE in LA politics.
but if that isnt an option, i probly would take out those corrupt cocksuckers, seems like every country south of the border is corrupt in some kinda way, maybe a revolution for the people? but if that happened i know america would most definatley oppose that...
Ghandi approach against governments might work, but I wonder about that approach against terrorist groups. I guess they could have just given up, but I bet a lot of them would have been executed anyway.
If you commit egregious human rights abuses like Fujimori, you should be served justice. He was an authoritarian who abused his power, unleashing indiscriminate death squads and imprisonment. He was also involved in mass amounts of corruption and embezzlement. Just because he did something good doesn't absolve him from his crimes. Many Latin American leaders have been similar, and just b/c they haven't been prosecuted in the past doesn't mean that LA nations shouldn't start a precedent today.
Thats interesting and terrible. Its true alot of Americans are ignorant of the world and even theri own country. But I dont think the powers that being are helping on that front. In fact I think they are promoting the stupor-like state that is at large in America, inall likely-hood because the comatose and dumb make easy for hosts and patsies. The governments of our world don't want us to learn of attrocity because they know we will logically connect the dots that shed lighton similareventshere
Suorrel 2 years ago
En todo caso nunca se comprobo: los indicios, el movil, el beneficio por el cual se comete el crimen y el 5 de abril fue una medida extrema que se vio obligado a aplicar para poder implantar las leyes tan necesarias para el pais. Lo horrendo es que la oposicion se una para destruir la imagen de una persona sin importarles el dano que causan a la Nacion porque venden a los peruanos como estupidos que justificamos aberraciones por un pedaso de pan. Son tan sinverguenzas y pretenden tapar el sol c
jackyfis20 2 years ago
Tomese en cuenta que Fujimori fue condenado con indicios y no con pruebas y como vas ha demostrar esos indicios que fujimori utilizo violencia para derrotar el terrorismo cuando el creo leyes a la cual los ciudadanos se someten para vivir en paz a eso se llama civilizacion. Los que desobedecen las leyes son delincuentes y van a la carcel pero sus enemigos dicen que el creo un gobierno delincuente y que puso a un monton de gente inocente a la carcel. no conosco uno inocente que haya ido .
jackyfis20 2 years ago
I've got to say you make some good points in the video. It just seems so hard for people nowadays to look at not just what he did but what his reason for his actions were. The whole situation in Peru needed 'tough' actions and he did what he felt needed to be done and on the whole it made some improvements. Its a shame really that he's being jailed, but i guess since i wasn't living in Peru at the time, I can't really comment on how it effected the public and maybe he should be jailed.
HattedMonkey 2 years ago
No matter how much your hate blinds you, it is impossible to deny his simply awesome accomplishments. I find it sad that he is hated (by some people) more than the ...terrorists he defeated. Perhaps it's because he was so effective in everything he did: he exposed the utter worthlessness of his opposition ...
jackyfis20 2 years ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
This is sick.
I'm quite certain it's possible to fight wars without so much unnecessary and pointless cruelty.
And if it isn't then perhaps people who can get by without crimes against humanity ought to be running things.
boobmcnutt 2 years ago
Situation demands response according to the situation. If an armed thug breaks into my house I will try to kill him to protect me and my family, but I am a pacifist; I wish for peace and love, but I am prepared for war and hate. If a country is completely in chaos and corruption, and someone tries to clean it up with love, it is quite likely that the someone will be "removed" by the "opposition".
I do not know anything about Peru, this is a general answer.
GnosticAtheist 2 years ago 2
And I agree with you. But it's quite clear that very few situations warrant the formation of death squads that roam around threatening, kidnapping, torturing, and murdering people and their families. What Fujimori did is simply horrendous.
boobmcnutt 2 years ago
That might be correct. I am not informed about his regime at all. Don't misunderstand me, I mean I have no infomration, I did not know anything about Peruvian (?) politics before I saw this video. So I cannot comment on anything but general morality.
GnosticAtheist 2 years ago
puta que eres un imbécil huevón
marianocarranza 2 years ago
porque?
Gimmeabreakman 2 years ago
Por tu maniqueísmo e ignorancia.
Los crímenes de guerra y crímenes de lesa humanidad (como los que kenya fujimori cometió) son inaceptables bajo cualquier circunstancia.
Me parece moralmente inaceptable que estos crímenes sean justificados.
La justicia peruana ha dado el ejemplo a la comunidad interancional al poner a un asesino y ladrón, (fujimori pronto estará bajo juicio por corrupción) tras las rejas
saludos
m
marianocarranza 2 years ago
Entiendes ingles?
Gimmeabreakman 2 years ago
Actualmente estudio en Estados Unidos (En NYU),
sí, entiendo inglés.
marianocarranza 2 years ago
That's funny. I graduated from there. LOL! I lived in Judson Hall. It used to be a dorm. Now it's part of the lawschool, I think.
Anyway, I don't really care about your hate. You're silly. You can tell in this video that I am not very committed to any position.
Gimmeabreakman 2 years ago
My point is simple: Fujimori actually helped Peru more than any President in recent history. You don't remember. You're probably too young. Peru was a mess in the 80s. You couldn't go anywhere. Military police were everywhere. Terrorist were everywhere.
Fujimori broke the law. I have no problem with him being punished.
Gimmeabreakman 2 years ago
I suppose that should be the rule. Go ahead and break the law if you are willing to go to jail for your actions. But it's simply sad that the only good president was also a bad one. All the other presidents were just bad. They accomplished nothing but filling their own bank accounts.
Gimmeabreakman 2 years ago
The "You are too young" argument is really dumb. It's like saying, you can't talk about the holocaust because you were too young.
And if you wanna play at that level, you mentioned in your video that you left Peru when you were really young, so how could you know?
marianocarranza 2 years ago
I went back every 2 years and I have lots of family there. You cannot appreciate how fucked up Peru was back then. It's easy to judge from your idealistic perspective.
You can think I am stupid. As long as you go to the trouble of thinking. I don't think you're stupid. I have no opinion of you.
Gimmeaflakeman 2 years ago
You are sillier. And I don't hate you, I just think you are really stupid.
marianocarranza 2 years ago
The ends justify the means, as long as it's someone else who does the sacrificing.
My thought. If I benefited from the change, I'd praise him. If one of the people he murdered was a friend or family member, there would be no bigger villain in the world, and I would seek to destroy him.
In short, if he murdered, he's a murderer, and deserves to be in jail. You can't make exceptions for people just because you like the end result.
Verrimgard 2 years ago
Great Men (if they are at all ethical) often make hard descions based on the "Greater Good". Ithought this video was thought provoking and definately worth watching!,
twilitedawn11195 2 years ago
Totally know what you mean. However this may be cliche but, "Kill one man you are a murderer, kill one thousand men and you are a conqueror". Stalin.
phineus1985 2 years ago
I appreciate your insight and honesty .
discaimer 2 years ago
It's funny, your Peruvian accent comes out when you say Alberto, and then your Japanese accent comes out when you say Fujimori.
Ryanan2 2 years ago
hows that funny? thats how ur supposed to say words and names coming for other languages
iFukuyama 2 years ago
I just try to pronounce them wrong...but Japanese and Spanish speakers pronounce Fujimori the same way.
Gimmeabreakman 2 years ago
I didn't mean "haha" funny, I just meant odd sounding, sorry I guess I don't run into people who have the combination Spanish and Japanese accents as much as you do, forgive me.
Ryanan2 2 years ago
Wow. I had no idea....so wait..the president of Peru was Japanese???
chimera15 2 years ago
This is an example that would be best put in the context of Saul Alinsky's book, "Rules for Radials" where he spends a whole chapter discussing when the ends justifies the means during a conflict. Perspective definately is influenced by which side of the conflict you are on.
DoggBisket 2 years ago
Sometimes you got to do bad and illegal stuff, to keep your promise or help out your people.
Same thing happened with Stalin and many other communist countries.
They got things done even though the methods they used weren't pretty.
After what Alberto did I think he shouldn't be put to jail, he helped his people, helped his country. Even considered a national hero.
ProjectNX 2 years ago
Comparing Stalin to Alberto is ridiculous, he turned Ukraine into one huge concentration camp. He starved many, many people, while he lived in luxury. Stalin did no good, and if there was good, it was unintentional.
That being said, I agree with you Victor, sometimes you need to be cold and hard in order to pull people out of their own drudgery. People can "ooo" and "aaah" about the victims but from what you've been saying it sounds like there's been victims in Peru long before Alberto came.
Ryanan2 2 years ago
Also, Stalin didn't even really use communism, he twisted it so much it's been coined as "Stalinism" which is a blend of communism and a dicatorship, basically he took all of the good out of communism and brought in the worst of dictatorship.
Ryanan2 2 years ago
I guess it's a pretty tough call.
Most polititions have the lugjury of being heralded as a hero when they solve a big problem.
To take it on your shoulders and be hated for it is what makes it difficult.
Good video. Make more like this that can at least make people reflect on what they tend to ignore.
KageKitsune343 2 years ago
I guess it's okay if you're willing to offer yourself or your daughters up to forced sterilization.
How one deals with conflict is through diplomacy and peace talks - keeping the corruption of Western Nations out as well as the CIA and other wayward intelligence outfits.
It's called civilization.
30 years wasn't enough. however, let's hope his conviction says never again.
I'll hand it to the Peruvians they have more guts than the Americans when it comes to convicting their corrupt leaders
marniespeaks 2 years ago
I lived in Peru for a year. I remember hearing about FUJIMORI a lot. I think he probably did take drastic measures, but what else can you do?
I don't know what to think. How would you feel if you were the woman who got sterilized? Maybe, we should all look at the bigger picture.
It's a hard call. Good video. People should about these happenings around the world.
B-PAX
thebrentpaxton 2 years ago
I remember watching fujimori on the news every day about 15 years ago when that shit was going down, not on american tv of course, but on the spanish-language channels.
tonymacaronivlog 2 years ago
It's sad that I would never have heard of this if it wasn't for you. Why is it only the Middle East that the world "cares" so much about? I think that this kind of thing happens when the world ignores other country's problems. Then they are forced or feel they are forced to find questionable resolutions.
Sugartalker 2 years ago
why the hell i keep ear the intro of ghostbusters when i am trying to watch this video.... help please!
Sautron 2 years ago
Hmm.. I actually had heard of this and had a similar discussion with a friend of mine (is also from Peru) a little while ago.
And yeah Victor, this is a difficult one. I mean, right off the bat I'm comfortable saying.. No, absolutely not - under no circumstances is a one human being entitled to step across the boundaries of another human's rights.
But taking into account the situation - the war that was constantly being ignored, I see your point clearly. Drastic measures. *cont.
katConfidential 2 years ago
*- I wouldn't be the first to jump up on a soap box and defend Fujimori's reasons or motives. But at the same time I see his reasons/motives and even understand them.
Its a tough one. Yes, I'd want him to be sent to prison if it was MY sister he had forcefully sterilized - Yet still, his "crimes" and their motives, however abundant they may be, are not the kind of acts you can really knock the man for are they? You could instead, respect him for being bold enough to actually doing something.
katConfidential 2 years ago
Not sure I agree with you Victor, steralization for the poor? Single mothers are the largest burden on society. even worse than smokers and the fags, Maybe your right. lol
3101010 2 years ago
I argee.
qyxvp2 2 years ago
why does your banned ask people to un-subscribe?!
banghiphorray 2 years ago
My dog did that. The little bitch. She gets jealous.
Gimmeabreakman 2 years ago
yup they still believe cameras will steal souls :P
coaxis314 2 years ago
The end sure as hell justifies the means!! If you dont believe me ask president Truman when he order to drop "Fat Man" and "Little Boy" killing a total 220.000 japanese people.
ArgentoDude24 2 years ago
I would disagree with that being a good idea.
Broan13 2 years ago
Any specific argument?
ArgentoDude24 2 years ago
As I understand it, the A-bomb being dropped, if we were counting lives on a scoreboard, saved more lives than were incinerated/atomized. Is that a misconception? (I am NOT baiting or being sarcastic.)
MSWmson 2 years ago
equivalent exchange sure. But please bare in mind that there is never a greater good. Only a good, a Grey, and an evil. greater good is just a double positive.
Zatoichi291 2 years ago
That was the intention I know. But I have heard conflicting things about the severity of combat. I read (awhile ago) that we didn't have any large scale missions several months prior to dropping the bombs. Also the emperor wanted to surrender, but certain generals and military people didn't want that to happen.
I haven't taken a class about it though, so my information could be entirely false. Also most of the lives were innocent civilians. That we do know. The places were militarized.
Broan13 2 years ago
I agree with you, there is no way to fight terrorism without collateral damage. Conservatives have to do their work before liberals can nicen the place up. It takes both.
cdstingj 2 years ago
hehehehe i like lamas XD
hey what happend in you face??
meow23 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
It's a tough call. I don't approve of Bush's extra-constitutional actions or his treaty violations. I don't think they improved the lives of Americans at all. Maybe Fumjimori did make Peru better. Mussolini made trains run on time. Aside from Fujimori, even "little brown people" at some point deserve the rule of law. Maybe it takes breaking laws to get there. I don't know.
FantasticBabblings 2 years ago
Comment removed
FantasticBabblings 2 years ago
I feel torn, on the one hand using violence as a strategy to create order and peace is not a standard I would want to ever subscribe to, then again..... I can't even bring myself to type such a thought.
NLPNVC 2 years ago
I don't know if you read manga Victor, but I think you would like Akumetsu.
Aft3rshock01 2 years ago
On the contrary, I think this is one of your more interesting and thought-provoking posts. When is murder/forced sterilization/kidnapping/"disappearing" people held acceptable? The only response would be "Acceptable to whom?"
It's evidently acceptable to Americans (and members of any other nation), if we are to assess consent by inaction. Sad truth is that we're all such a bunch of apathetic egocentrists that anything's fine, as long as it doesn't interfere directly with, say, football or TV.
MSWmson 2 years ago
Your point is well taken about how nobody cares if "They're just little brown people."
I remember arguing the invasion of Iraq about "Why are Iraqi children being bombed less important than American children?"
Nobody cared that Afghanistan has been bombed into the stone age by every invader for the past 50 years and THAT is how the Taliban gained power.
I don't have the answers, but I do understand why the questions you ask are so important.
TVParkdale 2 years ago 2
Sorry, I had no idea it was that bad in Peru. Anyways, the American press hasn't pointed out anything like this. As for Fujimori getting imprisoned, I think what he did was totally justifiable if the things that are happening in Peru are as bad as you say they are. I think that given the circumstances, I would probably have taken simliar actions.
Taz418 2 years ago
I think if everybody's quality of life is better now, and he didn't like... completely destroy his people to achieve it... I think it's acceptable. It's sort of a gray area. I think sometimes , the end justifies the means. But sometimes the quality of life you gain is outweighed by what you've done to the quality of life to achieve it (killing A LOT of people, etc.).
It sounds like he did a decent job though. I'm with you on this one.
xanthus1 2 years ago
Heh, let my friend hear this; I don't think her pride could handle it, lol (she's Peruvian btw). You have to accept that no place is perfect, and we all have our own issues and stereotypes.
MsInsomnia89 2 years ago
hahaha i like that band-aid.
looks like Nelly. lol
but your lecture is really deep. corruption really sucks too. but i agree with you, that guy deserves some credit trying to clean up all those mess....
heddosupin 2 years ago
LOL! Um, I think you are right.
Gimmeabreakman 2 years ago
Here in Mexico we were going to put in jail a president, his name is Luis Echeverria Alvarez and he is guilty for the genocide from 1968, olympics year, mexico is host, there was a student march going on, and he needed to stop it so the world could see mexico's good side, so he decided to gather all the students at one plain spot and ordered the army to open fire towards them, this is not that detailed but if you like to find out google it or something, most of the students were minors though.
PoliomanGamer 2 years ago
25 years
PoliomanGamer 2 years ago
Victor, did you ever eat guinea pigs while you were living in Peru?
scorpius319 2 years ago
Yes.
Gimmeabreakman 2 years ago
Yuk!
scorpius319 2 years ago
He deserves it
Chatetris 2 years ago
By the way isnt there in Peru a law that prevents fujimori to be put in jail,you know cause he's 70 years old and he's sick
denitson777 2 years ago
No idea.
Gimmeabreakman 2 years ago
fujimori was othe only one who did something good for peru,
Alan garcia:suck
Alejandro Toledo:suck ass
Valentin Panigua:suck balls
denitson777 2 years ago
And you are right,there was not other way to do it,it was either the bad way or the worst way,but what bothers me is ...why the fuck he came back,why...that my friend doesnt make any sense.
denitson777 2 years ago
from Shogun:
Toranaga: There are no mitigating circumstances when it comes to rebellion against a sovereign lord!
Blackthorne: Unless you win.
darkwulf147 2 years ago
That's what we need over there in Venezuela,some alberto fujimori,I was living in peru for like three years,back then when fujimori was president and I was there a few years ago,and believe me I saw the difference
denitson777 2 years ago
i just watched 'taxi to the dark side' and it was even more eye opening about my nations (USA), administration. with peru i think the leader overall seemed to be deemed a dirty harry that wanted to clean up but i think perhaps refinements could have been made. i am still vague on the backstory of this....
and just going off of you victor.
RufioJJ 2 years ago
Sí, sí, me gustó mucho cuando controló los de Sendero Luminoso en la toma del palacio y acabó con ellos finalmente....y ahora esto es lo que le dan...como dirian por ahi "Así paga el Diablo a quien bien le ha servido"
kenjaruyata 2 years ago
Why did your parents move to America when you were 1? I would assume to have a better life. As I said before I don't know anything about the siutation in Peru, but people should have the freedom to live in peace and have basic human rights. A political corrupt leader only breeds a corrupt society.
ABCsensei 2 years ago
Corruption only breads more corruption. Education and empowerment reduces corruption. Look at some the the police forces in the world to see how corruption has been reduced. In relation to Guantanamo bay, this system of detention is unethical and was unacceptable. That is why Obama has ordered it to be closed. Torture by means of conformity is not acceptable. Guantanamo bay was found to be unconstitutional.
ABCsensei 2 years ago
I had a Chilean roommate in University who was a fan of Pinochet. I found it hard to believe. The guy killed so many people. He came to power in a cou supported by the CIA, over a democratically elected leader. He was a shameless fascist.
Maybe if I was Chilean I'd understand?
MikeSkullman 2 years ago
I don't know anything about the situation in Peru (only from what I've seen on your video). But I would say if you live in society that has to bribe police (even if you haven't done anything wrong) is corruption. People shouldn't have to live in a society of this nature. Where do you draw the line with war (you ask). Even in a war there is war guidelines/policy (though I can't remember the correct name off the top of my head). That is why some people are trialed for war crimes.
ABCsensei 2 years ago
I don't know much about this, but a president who commits crimes (murder and sterilization?!) to combat lawlessness and corruption deserves jail time. So he solved problems. He still didn't make society more lawful. Any society that disrespects the law is doomed to failure and chaos in the end. The law is a tool, not an obstacle.
I consider Gitmo and the like as very, very severe crimes that Bush absolutely deserves to go to jail for. I applaud Peru for confronting its dirty past.
JustAMinuteOYourTime 2 years ago
What if those laws were made by corrupt and unjust people?
MikeSkullman 2 years ago
I'm afraid to say, as you rightly surmised, that I know very little aout Peru's socio-political history. But I wouldn't say I don't care. Perhaps the international media doesn't care so much and that's why we hear so little about Peru?
Accountability in a job like President is crucial but you're right that, in some extreme situations, things may be needed to be done that one can't necessarily morally account for later on.
It's a tricky one!
novanine 2 years ago 2
You just gave me a huge amount of insight into this situation.
missuscake 2 years ago
I'm in the Philippines.
I recognise much of what you raise as being typical of this country, THE most corrupt in SE Asia.
There appears to be no way out of the situation unless the country gets the equivalent of Lee Kwan Yew. Not much chance of that.
draagon66 2 years ago
I know nothing about Peru....so this was really interesting to listen too....yah know, I had this thought too..."standard of living"....the standard of living was much better in Iraq with Hussein. 20 years of no war, people living in peace and yet they were in prison, no freedom of rights and legal terrorism caused the death of the innocent to keep the people in fear...fear rules chaos..maybe this guy did bring some good things to Peru, maybe its better now but at what cost? I dont know. `Raven
RadicalComedy 2 years ago
Fuhimori may have done some good things for Peru. The fact remains that all the american continent is full of corruption. Peru is not the exception. I'm sure there are many people who would love to speak of the many deals that left him a lot of money and people know that's true, happens all over the world "corruption". He left the country for some reason, might that be because he knew he was guilty of something? think about it. Now he came back, it's true... why.
Carlos2All 2 years ago
He might have thought nothing would happen if he'd tried to gain the presidency again. He approached it from Chile I believe, now isn't that strange?, he had all this planned, after all, money and power are things a man never has enough of, I think. It all backfired on him. Now look where he is. I don't wish him anything bad but I do believe the saying "an eye for an eye". You do things wrong and they come back to hunt you. Now, I'm an american who's parents are from Mexico.
Carlos2All 2 years ago
All my life I kept hearing my parents about how corrupted it was down there and how people would love to send some of those expresidents to jail together with other political officials. So I think Fujimori might deserve this. Even if he did some good for Peru, I think he knew what was waiting for him when he came back. I guess is up to each of us to come up with an opinion, ofcourse with exsamining the facts first.
Carlos2All 2 years ago
In the end, leave it up to god to sentence you up there for your sins. Carlos :-þ
Carlos2All 2 years ago
I'm adding this to my favorites so that I can look at it again when I'm not half asleep; hopefully I'll remember to make a real comment on this video. I find this sort of discussion to be very interesting.
anarchistnation69 2 years ago
I really don't condone what it sounds like he did. It sounds like he did a lot of things to a lot of people who had nothing to do with it. That doesn't mean I don't respect the guy a little.
Maybe it was the latest batman movie, but I have a decent amount of respect for somebody who will become the 'bad guy' for the greater good. I think you can see by him coming back and being sentenced that he knew what he did was wrong, and was willing to pay for it.
Feel free to comment on my comment.
SchoolhouseTechno 2 years ago
omg they do the same thing with Ecuador !! they have check points on the highway my dad gave him a a golden dollar and he left us alone!!!
aland2faraway 2 years ago
Alberto Fujimori built infrastructure, hospitals, schools for the poorest people living in the most outlying countryside.
You can ask a humble or the richest peruvian which president was best for Peru and everyone will answer "el Chino" ("the Chinese", Alberto Fujimori, although he is japanese, asian buddys are frequently called like that in Peru).
It's sad that everything ended this way.
finapon 2 years ago
You are right about other countries trying their leaders, of course the US has done it before, never when it really matters though, but I guess it could be viewed the same here.
Still the idea that "the End Justifies the Means" is really dangerous talk around a really slippery slope, just like the idea of "Justice", and it may be juvenile to think other longer ways would be better, but that should be the ideal:
When it's too big for one, to have the people work as a whole...
but yeah, juvenile.
bell02 2 years ago
did not know you were from Peru
then went to america
and now you're in Japan.
angrypunkbronxkid 2 years ago
ah! I thought you were born in America!
finapon 2 years ago
I really don't know enough to make a decision one way or another. It just amazes me how you can stand on the soil of a country, and know absolutely nothing about it.
I went to Peru with my Spanish class, none of us knew anything about any political turmoil. Besides a lot of political graffiti. It was obvious that people were poor, and that the education was bad...
I don't know. Peru's such a beautiful place, and I have some good memories of it. It's sad to hear of such things happening there.
LifeisaGlitch 2 years ago
The reason he was tried was because under law, he was found guilty. Not to say many of his followers who committed the same acts aren't, but when you unleash these orders onto your nation in which you govern, guilty or not, you must take responsibility for them.
Gjkl345 2 years ago
Incorrect, even though we follow a international law system biased on moral views, the greater good is nothing more then a failed principle. Justifying sterilization just because Peru isn't as ideal a country as it is, means anyone could go slip a knife into a pregnant ladies uterus if she was living in extremely violent and hostile conditions as long as it "helps" the overall good.
Gjkl345 2 years ago
Don't ask, is it acceptable, this murder or that, people only respond to numbers, massacres brought into light by the media as a play things, ask, whether or not you yourself are going to justify one eye for another. I personally believe he did the right thing, but only for my own beliefs of population control.
Gjkl345 2 years ago
I care but I haven't read up on this enough to comment extensively. Sounds like a "damned if he did, damned if he didn't" situation, but the sterilization thing...
One thing for certain, I have never envied those in power and I likely never will.
OhCurt 2 years ago
"For the greater good" is an acceptable reason.
No need be holy about it.
tsjoencinema 2 years ago 2
Your point's taken. The problem is, though, that "the greater good" means many different things to many different people. As an example, we are now in Iraq ostensibly because Bush deemed our involvement for "the greater good."
MSWmson 2 years ago
My family left Peru when I was a baby because of all the terrorism going on , we have to move to Argentina. My mother said she never thought she would go back and thanks to Fujimori Peru is a terrorist free country, has an amaizing economy, is doing very good, and we can go visit our family there. I agree with Machiaveli the end justifies the means. Look at the americans and their aromic bomb as a perfect example. Fujimori should be a free man and Peru should thank him.
ArgentoDude24 2 years ago 2
i think it is wrong what he did. forced sterilization? that's just as bad as what's going on in china with the one child policy.
in regards to the IRA, IMO i wouldn't call it terrorism given the history between the irish and the english. the irish wanted the whole of their country unified.
the whole idea of a "united" kingdom is defunct given the independence of ireland. not to bash england but i'm of irish decent so i feel a kinship.
tigertank06 2 years ago
He's not exactly the first. Remember Pinochet, Hussein, and Milosevic have either died or been executed while being held due to their accused crimes.
If he's guilty, he ought to be tried by his own people and punished accordingly. The ends do not justify the means. Murder justified as collateral damage is one thing, kidnapping and forced sterilization is another.
The good he did and the crimes he committed need to all be taken into consideration. Ideally, the jury will be impartial.
watcher8o 2 years ago
I enjoyed this video and agree with you on your points of view. Very interesting topic. The world only hears what is told to them through the media. So much corruption occurs in politics, I am often a skeptic when it comes to believing what I hear/read as truth.
dorotwhy 2 years ago
You're absolutely right that we only receive a very narrow window from the media. Unfortunately, the media today is nothing but a partnership pandering to the vapid demands of its public. Any medium offering up serious or stark, straightforward commentary on current issues would go bankrupt quickly in America's current Britney Spears/Paris Hilton Celebrityfest atmosphere. Hell, look at the medium you're watching now; YouTube would founder if not for stupid pet tricks and inane, insipid drama.
MSWmson 2 years ago
MSWmson, The sad thing is so many are gullible and are following, supporting, encouraging any media bunk that is fed to them. I often wonder...??? As for youtube, I find that I am exposed to so much I wouldn't have an opportunity to see and in many ways that is a plus :O)
dorotwhy 2 years ago
Victor, your video made me think. I thought Fujimori was one of the bad guys. Many Hitler had some good points. Your argument seems to be because Peru is such a mess, you have to be less than a boy scout to be its President.
Colinnnnnnn 2 years ago
if it's for the greater good it is accepted, fuck anyone who disaggrees with that if it helped then it was good ......
paragrin 2 years ago
guantanamo bay is gone...
smiley62 2 years ago
I sympathize with you,
This man is born Peru from Japanese parents. It's a bit weird XD
Why do you have a bandage on your face?
Ido013 2 years ago
dont totally agree with you on fujimory, partly bc i dont think i know all about it, but what can i say i have evo en bolivia ese pedazo de pu.... but i think every country should deal with their own. but i dont believe that presidents should have any amnesty.
endnami 2 years ago
The Clinton impeachment was a joke.
Gimmeaflakeman 2 years ago 3
ironic isn't? good guys gets there ass kicked and bad guys get a slap on the wrist and he's on his way. Okay he wasn't a total good gay but mah woot u goin' to do about it.. . .. -__-" i h8 politics in general.
BrutalWaffle 2 years ago
I think it`s very interesting....don`t know much about Peru, but would like to know more.
parrotnutz 2 years ago
although i find Guantanamo bay acceptable. Aparantly president obama does not. i think i heard that there is a bunch of crazy people running free now. imo: if you cant do the time dont do the crime. the people who were sent there deserved it =\ plain n simple
abby992 2 years ago
Dude. Sterilisation is wrong. And you know it.
I have a sneaking suspicion you are antagonising, but hey, thats how you work.
btw 4.35 ,I have to ask what you meant by 'some people call terrorism'. To clarify, are you not of the belief that what the IRA did was terrorism, or are you stating that in some eyes it wasn't considered so?
TheMeltingSnowman 2 years ago
It is wrong, but ... we can argue that not telling them or encouraging birth control is wrong too. Not as bad but wrong. Did it help the economy? Did it reduce crime. Probably. Do I have a better answer? No. Would I have done it? No. Was he charged for it? No.
Regarding IRA, the latter.
Gimmeaflakeman 2 years ago
Birth control, is a right that all humans have. To take control from an individual is surely to dictate ones ideals upon them, and become a dictator, and to therefore become an aggressive (by proxy), and manipulator. My next question is this: Considering your heritage, before your father found his way in America when he did, and your mother was one of the sterilised, and you were your mothers father, how would you feel about the sterilisation process?
TheMeltingSnowman 2 years ago
Forced sterilization is wrong period. Education is the only answer, but it takes time.
Hypotheticals are silly. If my mother were sterilized I would not exist. Point is moot.
Gimmeaflakeman 2 years ago 2
The ends justify the means. Thanks Victor. You said some thing more people should think about.
In a view years the bad deeds he did would be over weighed by the long term positive effect. All the people can live happier lives now. I really do agree with that concept, if one condition is met. The officials must have the best interest of the people at hart. I know NOTHING about this, but from what you said about him coming back I think he did.
NapalmXD 2 years ago
I liked this video, politics can be interesting. It seems like he did what had to be done.
In the UK fairly recently we had the cash for honours scandal, the prime minister was questioned by police but as expected in the end i dont think anyone got charged for it. Not surprising at all.
t0mmy9 2 years ago
I can't stop staring at the band aid... (something about Peru, knocked up, lack of education, Marxist terrorist groups, bribes, good uncles, bad cops, i would have sterilized the men, its a less invasive surgery ...brown people... crazy man goes to jail)... band aid...band aid... band aid
girlganja 2 years ago
if it were up to the public in countries like the UK and america, people would have evry polatician that wronged them locked up, but ofc thats aginst human rights, which is something that most countries choose to ignore
iceblade05 2 years ago
In my point of view, mr. fujimori was desprate and did it for the sake of the people in the country. I agree.
ShiftShaper1624 2 years ago
Very interesting. I can't answer the question if it is right or wrong because I don't really know anything about what happened in Peru, but in general I think that extreme circumstances sometimes make it morally acceptable to say the ends justify the means, because sometimes an even greater catastrophe can only be prevented by questionable means.
MisterWeed 2 years ago
very interesting subject matter. and victor in japan by way of america out of peru. man of the world indeed.
CheapRobot 2 years ago
Why did all the millionaires in Czechoslovakia go to jail after WWII? Not all of them got their money from profits directly related to the war but all of them went to jail. People often think that they are doing what is right in the name of *insert*. People don't often think before they act.
Zed2six 2 years ago
They should do the same thing with Bush!
Make him pay for all the shit he did!
ZinayH 2 years ago
Like what?
ltlocus 2 years ago
Re: Bush...Anyone who believes G.W. actually MADE any decisions or was the actual "leader" of anything probably has the same I.Q. as he does. The man was a puppet ! How can anyone justify his "re-election" for any other reason. The whole thing was a farce! The American people have no say in what the leaders decide. The leaders do just like the officers who stop Victor's uncle... they want the folded napkin.
dorotwhy 2 years ago
I'm prolly gona get flamed as hell for not understanding this :P but what is the reason behind the photo of ken in the upper left corner? I couldnt hear victor talk about him at all in this video :/
Mezhona 2 years ago
nwm.... I totaly fucked that up -.- I just found out that Ken Takahashi is a pitcher XD forget what I wrote :PP
Mezhona 2 years ago
there's a documentary on netflix called "The Fall of Fujimori", it's quite good, i don't get the title though because almost the whole time they talk about how he helped the country....
clearskyes 2 years ago
Therefore, what you are seeing today in Peru is a VERY good thing. Its a step in the right direction for Peru and the entire region. A region whose politics is generally decided by force as opposed to rule of law.
Finally asserting precedents for law and justice is the best thing LA nations can do to restore peace and prosperity, and the best place to start is with leaders who abused their power in the past.
luzur 2 years ago
How about Alan Garcia?
Gimmeabreakman 2 years ago
Yet another person that should have been locked up.
It doesn't matter how much good a person did in the past, if you committed a crime, you should be punished accordingly.
I'm somewhat ashamed to see him be president again...
Deimosz 2 years ago
I am too!
Gimmeaflakeman 2 years ago
Yes, certainly there is an ample amount of evidence linking Garcia in his first term to extensive connections with Paramilitary groups which committed human rights abuses, so the same standard should apply to him. In addition, he was abysmal at running the country. Its quite strange that he was elected again, but he was running against a crazy nationalist and a neoliberal corporatist, so it wasn't exactly a good choice.
luzur 2 years ago
Again, if LA nations want to straighten out the corruption and rampant disregard of human rights, you begin by prosecuting those responsible for past crimes. This has been done somewhat successfully in Argentina, and now to a degree in Peru. This needs to be done for rule of LAW to begin to supersede use of FORCE in LA politics.
luzur 2 years ago
well what about the ghandi approach?
but if that isnt an option, i probly would take out those corrupt cocksuckers, seems like every country south of the border is corrupt in some kinda way, maybe a revolution for the people? but if that happened i know america would most definatley oppose that...
bznarroz 2 years ago
Ghandi approach against governments might work, but I wonder about that approach against terrorist groups. I guess they could have just given up, but I bet a lot of them would have been executed anyway.
Gimmeabreakman 2 years ago
If you commit egregious human rights abuses like Fujimori, you should be served justice. He was an authoritarian who abused his power, unleashing indiscriminate death squads and imprisonment. He was also involved in mass amounts of corruption and embezzlement. Just because he did something good doesn't absolve him from his crimes. Many Latin American leaders have been similar, and just b/c they haven't been prosecuted in the past doesn't mean that LA nations shouldn't start a precedent today.
luzur 2 years ago 4
I remember when he was being hailed as a hero for defeating sendero luminoso and tupac amaro.
It's funny how things turn around.
CousinoMacul 2 years ago
well isnt 70,000 people classified as genacide? but who sets the border & whats one either side of the line anyway, when talking about death?
great question though. you're right very ironic.
benzone50 2 years ago
I visited Peru about 15 yrs ago. Fujimori was a hero and gave many people confidence because he was a smart leader who got the job done.
He could have accomplished more if in retirement, he never left Japan.
saiyouken 2 years ago
Trying to bring back the bandaid on the face fad?
cleanstar 2 years ago
Nice insight about the place, mate!
...and the new green screen? OK!
5 *****
EasyRaoul 2 years ago
New screen failed. Not sure how to use it yet.
Gimmeabreakman 2 years ago