Hey I'm sorry to come across like an arrogant dickhead - I am aware of my "know-it-all"-ness and I apologise for it, as I don't mean to be offensive or anything.
Perhaps Hogan is eliminating the slack in his swing...
Think of the time problem again. You cannot conciously do ANYTHING in 0.2 of a second, it has be done subconciously. The subconcious is programmed by the concious mind, but it's when you wrestle control from the subconcious by CONCIOUSLY trying to maniypulate the clubface, you have broken the chain - surely you know what chain I am talking about if you have read 5 Lessons?
@cortsonlaw - No disrespect to Mr Schlee at all, but I disagree with him. I disagree with Tom Bertrand. I had a similar conversation with a local pro who has played on the Asian Tour.
Kinesiology kinda says that's impossible to conciously manipulate your hands at this point in the swing and at this speed. I know the feeling that is being described here, I am just saying many people can interpret Five Lessons however they want, but in the 0.2 secs it takes to downswing, you can't do this.
If what you say were true anyone who was in Hogan's position at the top of his back swing couldn't have any influence on the swing and everyone would hit a perfect shot every time. The subtle nuances of where we place our effort within our bodies at any given time dramatically affect how the body moves. A simple pinch of the handle for a millisecond can make an enormous amount of difference. Even Iron Byron requires very fine tuning just to repeat a swing.
@cortsonlaw I have already won this argument several times before with various pros, none who have ever won an event, mind you....
You have to swing the handle, not the clubhead. That's all there is to it. Hogan is not "shutting the face" at the top, as I said before - this isn't the apex of Hogans swing. You seem to think it is. The top and the apex are different. I'm not trying to argue with you, PM me - I think I could really teach you something if you want to know it.
@cortsonlaw Agree, as a professional instructor and player, I can and have seen manipulation of the hands at this point of the swing. The application of kinesiology in teaching is not always black or white.
Well, he certainly thought he was lowering the plane as a response to the lower body movement, which also reoriented the path more from the inside.
Also, it depends on what you mean by "shutting." If you mean that he was shutting the face relative to square, I don't think so. But it's possible he was "shutting" in the sense of bringing the face back to approximately square, after having it open when he arrived at the top (because of the weak grip and concave left wrist).
@emncaity I think what cortsonlaw is trying to say is different from what your saying. He is promoting a shutting of the face with the early bowing of the left wrist at the top of thje swing. What your saying and I agree with, is Hogan was lowering his plane. If you flatten your downswing the face of the clubhead will always point skyward. If you stop any video at this point you will see he still has a cup in his left wrist when the plane lowers.
If he had a screw driver in his left hand he would be unscrewing a rusty screw as hard as he could right through the ball. If you have a screwed up swing, unscrew it.
Keep in mind Hogan had his club face open 5 degrees at address so he knew he could pour it on as hard as he wanted and the worst he could do was hit it dead straight. But that is no secret. After Schlee showed me how to do "the secret" you can't help but see it. It is like the arrow in the FedEx logo. Once you know where it is you can't help but see it.
I believe he means that they twist counter-clockwise on the way back. Hogan himself said that he twisted his left hand as he took the club away thus fanning open the clubface. Almost like trying to look the back of your hand as they pass about hip height.
Hey I'm sorry to come across like an arrogant dickhead - I am aware of my "know-it-all"-ness and I apologise for it, as I don't mean to be offensive or anything.
Perhaps Hogan is eliminating the slack in his swing...
TheBusiness55 1 year ago
@TheBusiness55
I don't think you're being arrogant in the least--you just have a serious and intelligent view of it.
emncaity 7 months ago
Think of the time problem again. You cannot conciously do ANYTHING in 0.2 of a second, it has be done subconciously. The subconcious is programmed by the concious mind, but it's when you wrestle control from the subconcious by CONCIOUSLY trying to maniypulate the clubface, you have broken the chain - surely you know what chain I am talking about if you have read 5 Lessons?
TheBusiness55 1 year ago
You think?
This isn't the apex of Hogan's swing - although it may be the top.
Look how much his left knee moves, and you're telling me he is manipulating the club at this point?
TheBusiness55 1 year ago
@TheBusiness55
From what I learned from John Schlee, yes.
cortsonlaw 1 year ago
@cortsonlaw - No disrespect to Mr Schlee at all, but I disagree with him. I disagree with Tom Bertrand. I had a similar conversation with a local pro who has played on the Asian Tour.
Kinesiology kinda says that's impossible to conciously manipulate your hands at this point in the swing and at this speed. I know the feeling that is being described here, I am just saying many people can interpret Five Lessons however they want, but in the 0.2 secs it takes to downswing, you can't do this.
TheBusiness55 1 year ago
@TheBusiness55
If what you say were true anyone who was in Hogan's position at the top of his back swing couldn't have any influence on the swing and everyone would hit a perfect shot every time. The subtle nuances of where we place our effort within our bodies at any given time dramatically affect how the body moves. A simple pinch of the handle for a millisecond can make an enormous amount of difference. Even Iron Byron requires very fine tuning just to repeat a swing.
cortsonlaw 1 year ago
@cortsonlaw I have already won this argument several times before with various pros, none who have ever won an event, mind you....
You have to swing the handle, not the clubhead. That's all there is to it. Hogan is not "shutting the face" at the top, as I said before - this isn't the apex of Hogans swing. You seem to think it is. The top and the apex are different. I'm not trying to argue with you, PM me - I think I could really teach you something if you want to know it.
TheBusiness55 1 year ago
@cortsonlaw Agree, as a professional instructor and player, I can and have seen manipulation of the hands at this point of the swing. The application of kinesiology in teaching is not always black or white.
hennybogan007 2 months ago
Hmm..."shutting the face," or lowering the plane relative to the shoulder joint, with the face becoming more parallel to the ground as a result?
emncaity 1 year ago
@emncaity He's shutting.
cortsonlaw 1 year ago
@cortsonlaw
Not trying to start an argument, but are you claiming:
1. that he's shutting the face deliberately?
2. that the face is shutting as a primary objective, rather than as a byproduct of another move?
emncaity 1 year ago
@cortsonlaw
Well, he certainly thought he was lowering the plane as a response to the lower body movement, which also reoriented the path more from the inside.
Also, it depends on what you mean by "shutting." If you mean that he was shutting the face relative to square, I don't think so. But it's possible he was "shutting" in the sense of bringing the face back to approximately square, after having it open when he arrived at the top (because of the weak grip and concave left wrist).
emncaity 7 months ago
@emncaity i like the second answer better.
dschultz6072 10 months ago
@emncaity I think what cortsonlaw is trying to say is different from what your saying. He is promoting a shutting of the face with the early bowing of the left wrist at the top of thje swing. What your saying and I agree with, is Hogan was lowering his plane. If you flatten your downswing the face of the clubhead will always point skyward. If you stop any video at this point you will see he still has a cup in his left wrist when the plane lowers.
theeaglequest 4 weeks ago
If he had a screw driver in his left hand he would be unscrewing a rusty screw as hard as he could right through the ball. If you have a screwed up swing, unscrew it.
cortsonlaw 2 years ago
love your comments here !!! this piece of Hogans swing interests me the most...
OnlineBizClubGuy 2 years ago
Keep in mind Hogan had his club face open 5 degrees at address so he knew he could pour it on as hard as he wanted and the worst he could do was hit it dead straight. But that is no secret. After Schlee showed me how to do "the secret" you can't help but see it. It is like the arrow in the FedEx logo. Once you know where it is you can't help but see it.
cortsonlaw 2 years ago
So his wrists twist clockwise shutting the face, but somewhere else you said they twist counterclockwise. What do you mean?
foamjack 2 years ago
I believe he means that they twist counter-clockwise on the way back. Hogan himself said that he twisted his left hand as he took the club away thus fanning open the clubface. Almost like trying to look the back of your hand as they pass about hip height.
heckchristopher 2 years ago