Moreover JESUS Himself said in Matthew 25: 31-46: "...'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels'...Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
There are clearly two camps: the saved and the lost. Unless we want to make JESUS a liar and pretend we know better than him!
1 Corinthians 3:17 "If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy that person;"
Wow! This is the most dangerous, most deceptive teaching of all times. PLEASE stop sending people to hell with your doctrine. There are dozens of verses against this doctrine but here are a few of them:
Ephesians 2:8 "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith..." No one is saved, who does not have faith in JESUS
Matthew 5:20 ".. .unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees..., you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven." Are all saved? NO! More to come...
1 Tim. 4:9-11 may be your favorite passage, but it does not teach the ultimate salvation of all men. Purge you mind of the faulty theology of universalism and embrace the actual message of Scripture. Many will clearly be cast into the LOF on the day of judgment. Angels will gather out of God's kingdom all that offends and cast them into a "furnace of fire." Hell is a place "prepared" for the devil, fallen angels, and infidels (Mat. 25).
The other foundational pillar of CU is the doctrine of predestination. The true def. of this term is: God predestined all men to be saved. In other words He desires all men to be saved. God created man in His image. This means man has free will. God chooses all to follow him. But not all will choose to accept His will. Acts13:46-48 is a perfect example of this. The Jews willfully choose not to repent. The opposite was true of the gentiles and they were saved.
"I solemnly make this oath– what I say is true and reliable: 'Surely every knee WILL bow to me, every tongue WILL solemnly affirm; Only in the LORD, it shall be said of me, are righteousness and strength" -Isa45.23-4 (cf. Phili2.10-11)
"[God] DESIRES ALL people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the mana Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for ALL, which is the testimony given at the proper time." 1Tim 2.4-6
"as in Adam ALL die, so also in Christ shall ALL be made alive. *But each in his OWN order*" 1Cor 15.22-23ff
"we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of ALL people, ESPECIALLY of those who believe." 1Tim4.10
@AllOtherNamesUsed 1 Cor15:21-23 Vs.23 says but every man in his own order: Christ the first fruits; afterward they that are Christ's. Who are Christ's? Those who believed on his name and followed him.
@potooth I specifically marked 1Cor 15.22-23ff, the ff means to keep reading (limited space to quote it all in these chatboxes). Now after v23 deliverance continues beyond Christ & his believers at his coming (those "especially saved"), until finally the Father becomes "all in all" in v28, after all powers of this world are conquered and death itself is overcome (v26). All things are made new (Rev 21.5).
The other passages from 1Tim highlight the plan to include all people at the proper time.
@AllOtherNamesUsed I want you to know I appreciate this study we're having. It is challenging me to dig and make sure I'm interpreting the bible as is correctly possible. I realize there will always be questions I won't have answers to until Christ comes. Now I want to focus on 1 Tim4:10.God is the saviour of all men, SPECIALLY THOSE WHO BELIEVE. What sets those who believe apart from all other men? Jn3:17,18 & 36 are the 3 scripture witnesses that give the answer.
@AllOtherNamesUsed Again, God is the Savior of all men in the sense that he desires all men to be saved. God means what he says through the 4th & 5th witnesses that I forgot to state, Jn1:12 But as many as RECEIVED HIM, TO THEM gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe. Who are those who received him? Those who believed. Jn3:36 He that believes on the Son has everlasting life: and he that BELIEVES NOT the Son SHALL NOT SEE LIFE but the wrath of God abides on him.
@AllOtherNamesUsed 1Cor15:24-28 isn't talking about continued deliverance beyond the 2nd coming. It says the end will come when Christ has put down all rule, authority and power, when he has put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. Then at the end, Christ will deliver up the kingdom to God the Father and he will once again be subject to God the Father so that God may be all in all. See Mt 11:27. When shall the end come?
@AllOtherNamesUsed I would like to pause for a moment and point out some scriptures that you may or may not have considered. These scriptures shed light on the justice and mercy of God. Acts17:30-34 God will judge men according to the light they had. Jn10:27 I believe there are those who never heard the gospel yet respond to God's spirit and cooperate with him according to his working in their conscience. Mt25:37-40 Again, there will be many righteous who never heard the name of Jesus.
@AllOtherNamesUsed I believe many of these righteous Jesus mentions never heard his name but they knew him. They were his sheep, they heard is voice and followed him.
@AllOtherNamesUsed I would like to do a quick overview of Rev19 & 20 1st event; Rev19, Christ and the armies of heaven return and the wicked are slain. 2nd event Rev20:1,2, Satan is bound for 1000 years and the wicked dead do not live until the 1000 years are finished. 3rd event; vs.7-8, Satan is freed from prison to once again deceive the nations. (Note: The wicked must be resurrected at this time in order for Satan to deceive the nations.)
@potooth 4th event; vs9-10, Satan gathers the resurrected wicked to surround New Jerusalem for the final conflict of Armageddon. 5th event; vs11-12, the great white throne judgment. 6th event, The 2nd death which is the final destruction of the wicked, death and sin.
@AllOtherNamesUsed Now listen you who say, “Today or tomorrow we go to this or that city, spend a year there, carry on business and make money.” Why you do not even know what will happen tomorrow. What is your life? You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes. Instead you ought to say, “If it is the Lords will, we will live and do this or that.” anou if you're going to use scripture to back your position use it in the context that was intended.
@potooth Same principle. There is no offense to the meaning: if God wills us to live we will live. Nonbelievers live right now, is it ultimately their will or God's? The passage puts the ultimate authority of life in God, not Man as some intend.
I can't help but notice the common accusation from opponents of universal redemption is context abuse when in fact the opposite is true. Perfect example is quoting 1Cor15.21-23 stopping short of crucial text, or editing "especially.." from 1Tim 4.10.
@potooth "James wasn't talking about the Lord resurrecting all people from all ages and saving them when he returns."
Right, he was affirming that even the life of men is according to God's will not Man's will, hence be humble. Meanwhile you put God's will beneath unbelievers': "God's will doesn't determine that all will be saved. Having said this, God does desire all men to be saved."
In general terms:
"What he desires, that he does" Job 23.13 (check context)
@AllOtherNamesUsed Ph2:10,11 is saying at the great white throne judgment which takes place after the 1000 year time period mentioned Rev20:2 everyone including those who denied Christ; this includes satan and the fallen angels, will own up to the fact that Jesus is Lord and Every knee will bow......
@potooth A good rule of thumb to insure you get the correct context on any bible subject is to find all scriptures on the subject being studied. Whom shall we teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little. Isaiah 28:9,10.
@potooth Yes. Now keep reading v12: "Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed..work out your OWN salvation with fear & trembling"
Paul made this about "salvation" right on the heels of the universal confession & contrasts it *chronologically* w. those who "ALWAYS obeyed" as opposed to delaying it til later. He says to work out YOUR OWN salvation. Then Paul unlocks a mystery egos still can't deal with:
v13: "for it is GOD who works IN YOU, both TO WILL & to work for his good pleasure."
@AllOtherNamesUsed NIV Therefore, my friends, as you have always obeyed not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence continue to workout your salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose. Ph2:12,13 Paul was exhorting the church at Philippi to continue working out their salvation as in the past when he was present and to be even more diligent about it when he is absent. Paul trusts that Christ's example in
@AllOtherNamesUsed in vs5-11. Paul trusts that Christ's example will encourage them to more faithful obedience. We are saved by grace through faith. God's grace leads us to good works. Lk13:24 Jesus said “Strive to enter in at the gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. God's good works are manifested in our lives through our cooperation with his will and power. I experienced God's first good work in my life when I believed the good news.
@AllOtherNamesUsed God's will provided the initial stimulus that awakened my desire to be saved. He enabled me to make the decision to attain salvation and he supplies me with the power to make that decision effective so that salvation is accomplished in my life. I'm not a passive entity. My redemption is a cooperative work between God and myself. “Strive to enter in at the straight gate.” The redemptive work of God is a mystery.
@AllOtherNamesUsed Maybe there is a term more fitting than "free will" to describe my cooperative work with God but for now I can't think of one. Can you?
@AllOtherNamesUsed 1Tim4:10 ...the living God who is the savior of all people. This is true. Lets look at Jn3:18 He that believes on him is not condemned: but he that believes not is condemned already, because he hasn't believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. Vs.36 He that believes on the Son has everlasting life: and he that doesn't... shall not see life.... Jn1:12 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become the children of God.
@potooth John spoke fine but when you fail to consider it in light of all scripture, the conclusions are amiss. Yes those who deny Christ are condemned, that does not mean that they can never believe (they will). That is why Paul says that God "is the Savior of all people" & let's show the part you edited out: "ESPECIALLY of those who believe." Why 'especially'? because we know Christ already suffered condemnation for ALL, some don't YET & condemn themselves as Judas did and committed suicide.
@AllOtherNamesUsed Those who currently reject Jesus still have time to repent, but time is short. Their time will expire when they die. Those who continue to neglect repeated opportunities until they die have sealed their fates.
@AllOtherNamesUsed Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of all people; and he will appear a 2nd time, not to bear sin, BUT TO BRING SALVATION TO THOSE WHO ARE WAITING FOR HIM. Heb 9:27 Who are those that are waiting for him? The righteous dead who are asleep in their graves and the righteous who are alive at his coming.
@AllOtherNamesUsed Heb9:27 The unrighteous dead are not waiting for Christ. They didn't know him. How can they be waiting in their graves for someone they didn't know? The unrighteous dead will be resurrected after the 1000 years to face the great white throne judgment then the will experience the 2nd death.
The doctrines of Christian Universalism are built on the belief that the soul was created immortal. Immortality of the soul is not supported by scripture. Mortality of the soul is. Therefore the “all will be saved” doctrine is a false teaching. Jesus said only those who know him have eternal life. Jn17:3. The soul is mortal therefore the soul's only opportunity to know Christ is in this life. Jesus will not raise the unbelievers back to life and give them another opportunity to repent. (cont)
@potooth There fates are sealed at death. The CU's position on eternal hell punishing is correct. There is no scriptural support for this teaching. The hell fire camp is at one end of the scale and CU is at the other. Both are extremes. The teachings of CU will lull many unbelievers into a false sense of security. There is the possibility they will delay their decisions for Christ and miss the opportunity for salvation. (cont)
@potooth Not all Universalists believe in the immortality of the soul. I don't really follow any groups, I just go by what the bible says, but the two main groups were the Impartialists and the Restorationists; the former did not believe in immortality of the soul (no consciousness in death, Ps146.4;Ecc9.5) and I think are still the larger group, and the other does believe in the immortality of the soul. Google a great article titled:
@AllOtherNamesUsed I found this information at widipedia. I think the immortality of the soul doctrine can be considered one of the offical tenets of the Christian Universalist Movement. Individuals in all faiths will have their independent beliefs and that can't be helped in some cases. If the organized church or movement of a particular faith doesn't hold to certain beliefs than how can it stand for anything?
@potooth I do not speak for any Universalist organization because I do not belong to them. However I do hope your research does not begin or end at Wikipedia. There will always be a group that branches off from this or that congregation, it happened even in Paul's day & Christ warned about it, we should not be surprised to find it here, but this is a separate issue. I personally hold to the bible and it clearly shows Universal salvation and does not teach the immortality of the soul doctrine.
@AllOtherNamesUsed I was trying to find the offical Christian Universalist website to view their doctrinal statement of faith. I didn't come up with anything. That in its self gives me pause. Am I searching for phantom? Is Christian Universalism an actual denomination like any other church organization? Educate me on this.
@potooth "Is Christian Universalism an actual denomination like any other church organization?"
I honestly don't have any affiliations with CU and only came to learn of universal salvation from the research of the late Ernest L. Martin. I don't know anyone from any CU churches or anything. I'm just an independent believer in Christ and the bible. I actually only looked into the "official" stance on immortality of the soul after I saw you mention it, so I book searched & learned of the split..
@potooth "What is your most convincing argument in support of universal salvation?" I don't think there's any one particular way to sum it up in a few Youtube chatboxes. It takes years of studying and learning how the Spirit teaches through the ages, and what convinces one may not the other. Honestly, my knowledge exploded after I discovered the work of Ernest L. Martin. That doesn't mean I believe everything he taught.. That article I mentioned earlier is one of his. It is quite eye-opening.
@AllOtherNamesUsed You'd be surprised how much can be summed up in few youtube chat boxes. I've taken up pages of comment columns, well maybe not pages but a fair amount of space anyway. The reason I requested your most convincing argument is because the belief of universal salvation brings with it potentially negative eternal consequences. I've viewed a couple of youtube videos promoting CU and in each instance they presented their case by taking scripture out of context. (cont)
@AllOtherNamesUsed The point is: God's will doesn't determine that all will be saved. Having said this, God does desire all men to be saved. He sent His Son to make this possible but; Not all men will accept the gospel message of salvation. He created us with free wills. Love doesn't demand its own way 1Cor13:5. I'm able to respond to God's love. Yes this is possible only because He first loved me 1Jn4:19; but just as with the Jews I must decide to believe or not believe. The Jews chose not.
@potooth "God's will doesn't determine that all will be saved. Having said this, God does desire all men to be saved."
I believe this is the crux of the problem. With this statement you are elevating Man's will above God's, relegating God's wlll inferior to Man's. This of course has no basis in holy writ, nor in my view, logic. To simplify this, the problem becomes one of faith in what scripture says:
@potooth Mk14.61-65 Again the high priest asked him, “Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?” And Jesus said, “I am, and you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power, & coming with the clouds of heaven.” & the high priest tore his garments & said, “What further witnesses do we need? You have heard his blasphemy. What is your decision?” & they all condemned him as deserving death. & some began to spit on him.."
Was Christ wrong that the high priest would see Christ return?
@potooth I just wanted confirmation that you believe Christ when he told the high priest that he (the high priest) would see him (Christ) "coming with the clouds of heaven." And if so, do you believe this has already happened?
@AllOtherNamesUsed The priests will see Christ when he comes in the clouds and it would have to take place at the time the righteous dead and living are caught up to meet Christ in the air. I believe it will be a momentary resurrection to fulfill scripture and then the unrepentant priests will be slain by the brightness of his coming along with the unsaved living. There is no scriptural support for this but to remain consistent with the nature of the 2nd coming it would have to be true.
@AllOtherNamesUsed God obviously predestines history. He sets up and removes kings. Before the foundation of the world God had the plan of redemption in place. He knew us before we were born. God knows the beginning from the end. He often gave Israel conditional prophecies concerning the fate of their nation. If they obeyed God this would happen. If they disobeyed that would happen. He knows what I will answer my prayers even before I think what to pray. I'm not disputing this element of
@potooth God's directing of history. I know there were may times in my life when I didn't say yes to the invitation. Is invitation the right word? Yes God commissons people to invite other people to know Jesus. There was a point in my life when I finally said yes. Thanks be to God. Yes He was drawing me to him all those years and one day I said yes. He still draws me and I still say yes. Its a relationship. He gives and I give. Freely have you received, freely give. Mt10:8
@potooth Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. Rev3:20 It takes a willingness on man's part to open the door of his heart to receive Jesus. It doesn't get any clearer than this.
@potooth Exactly, and in due time, each in their own order, all will confess Christ as their lord just as it is solemnly sworn (Isa45.22-23) & reaffirmed (Rom14.9-14;Phi2.10). This in no way means there will not be a time of judgment before this happens. Each will come to a knowledge of the truth as the plan unfolds because it is the will of God(1Tim2.4), WHEN that happens is not Man's will. God's will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Even in heaven some angels rebel, God's will allows this.
@AllOtherNamesUsed Testified in due time. 1Tim2:6 The plan of salvation was made before the foundation of the world. For thousands of years from the time the world was created man's repeated attempts to attain righteousness by works failed. It was clearly demonstrated to the universe that apart from God man could never be restored. In due time Jesus entered this world and gave himself a ransom for all. The mission of Christ to earth confirmed God's plan to save all men. Jesus' death
@AllOtherNamesUsed on the cross is the testimony of God's plan of salvation. "In due time" is not referring to an after death restoration of the wicked back to God after the 2nd coming.
@AllOtherNamesUsed Rom14:7-9 Paul addresses the church in Rome. For non of us lives to himself, and no man dies to himself. For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; whether we live therefore or die we are the Lords. For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord of both the dead and the living. Paul is talking about believers whether they be dead or living. He's not talking about every dead or living person saved or unsaved.
@potooth So the gist of it is that there is no predestination and the Jews in Acts 13* rejected salvation, therefore universal salvation is impossible? Is that right?
@AllOtherNamesUsed Thus the unbelieving Jews were not appointed to eternal life. They sealed their fate and went to their graves with the decision they made. There are no second chances. This is why those who believe the " all will be saved" doctrine are in jeopardy of missing the opportunity for salvation. It may be assumed there is no urgency in making a decision for Christ. One might think in the back of their mind " I will be saved anyway" so they may put off this life or death decision.
@AllOtherNamesUsed One example in particular attempted to use Acts13:48 to prove God predestined or appointed eternal life to the Gentiles and that it was His will alone that determined their fate. Go to therealgoodnews part 3a "Who are we trying to reach" video and after listening to it read my comments refuting it.
It amazes me how most of Christendom do not understand plain English.I have always believed the doctrine of God being the Savior of all because of the scriptures you have mentioned, long before a lot of people were aware of errors in translation, even myself!! I always thought to myself that God wants us to love our enemies and yet He is going to burn puny man who is and cannot be His match, in an eternal hell fire !?!? Thank you for sharing the truth!!!!
Ive already seen all your videos hundreds of times, (because i downloaded them to watch night after night on my pc as i battled depression) caused by...dun dun dun...yep you guessed it, that horrible doctrine of eternal hell.
Luckily there are men out there with great love, unafraid to preach the truth.
Dennis when you are in heaven one day, and you see someone running towards you ready to give you a great big hug...theres a good chance it will be me.
When I finally understood this, it was like a revelation.Honestly, it feels like a weight has lifted some how. I agree,I like your way of speaking. Thanks for putting these up.
Yah reigns . The conclusion of this becomes undeniable , every single cross reference here just confirms and builds on inclusiveness . How can the ecclesia say otherwise ? We're saved and corrected for His celestial family whether we like it or not . And some day the rest LEARN to Like it... lol . oh post script... I put a link up on my ocean vid back to part one of this .
Thanks piscesR2cool, for the 5***** and thank for the comment on my time; guess its just my Arkansas country ways :) really though, there is just something about sitting here in front of this camera. Nothing like standing in front of a crowd, that is easier for me than this or maybe its just the presents of the people and there spirit drawing from my spirit. dono
5***** and favored. The reason you have to always make 2 is because of your mellow way of talking. I've watched videos on youtube where they talk so fast I have a hard time keeping up with them. lol
Thanks piscesR2cool, for the 5***** and thank for the comment on my time; guess its just my Arkansas country ways :) really though, there is just something about sitting here in front of this camera. Nothing like standing in front of a crowd, that is easier for me than this or maybe its just the presents of the people and there spirit drawing from my spirit. dono
Moreover JESUS Himself said in Matthew 25: 31-46: "...'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels'...Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
There are clearly two camps: the saved and the lost. Unless we want to make JESUS a liar and pretend we know better than him!
1 Corinthians 3:17 "If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy that person;"
Philippians 1:28, 2 Peter 2:12, for more truth!
mytube4f 10 months ago
Wow! This is the most dangerous, most deceptive teaching of all times. PLEASE stop sending people to hell with your doctrine. There are dozens of verses against this doctrine but here are a few of them:
Ephesians 2:8 "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith..." No one is saved, who does not have faith in JESUS
Matthew 5:20 ".. .unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees..., you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven." Are all saved? NO! More to come...
mytube4f 10 months ago
1 Tim. 4:9-11 may be your favorite passage, but it does not teach the ultimate salvation of all men. Purge you mind of the faulty theology of universalism and embrace the actual message of Scripture. Many will clearly be cast into the LOF on the day of judgment. Angels will gather out of God's kingdom all that offends and cast them into a "furnace of fire." Hell is a place "prepared" for the devil, fallen angels, and infidels (Mat. 25).
Buddy, you need to do your homework.
peterpulpitpounder 1 year ago
The other foundational pillar of CU is the doctrine of predestination. The true def. of this term is: God predestined all men to be saved. In other words He desires all men to be saved. God created man in His image. This means man has free will. God chooses all to follow him. But not all will choose to accept His will. Acts13:46-48 is a perfect example of this. The Jews willfully choose not to repent. The opposite was true of the gentiles and they were saved.
potooth 1 year ago
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@potooth God's desire always trumps in due time.
"What he desires, that he does" Job 23.13
"If the Lord wills, we will live" Jam 4.15
"I solemnly make this oath– what I say is true and reliable: 'Surely every knee WILL bow to me, every tongue WILL solemnly affirm; Only in the LORD, it shall be said of me, are righteousness and strength" -Isa45.23-4 (cf. Phili2.10-11)
This includes those in Acts13, one day.
AllOtherNamesUsed 1 year ago
"[God] DESIRES ALL people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the mana Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for ALL, which is the testimony given at the proper time." 1Tim 2.4-6
"as in Adam ALL die, so also in Christ shall ALL be made alive. *But each in his OWN order*" 1Cor 15.22-23ff
"we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of ALL people, ESPECIALLY of those who believe." 1Tim4.10
AllOtherNamesUsed 1 year ago
@AllOtherNamesUsed 1 Cor15:21-23 Vs.23 says but every man in his own order: Christ the first fruits; afterward they that are Christ's. Who are Christ's? Those who believed on his name and followed him.
potooth 1 year ago
@potooth I specifically marked 1Cor 15.22-23ff, the ff means to keep reading (limited space to quote it all in these chatboxes). Now after v23 deliverance continues beyond Christ & his believers at his coming (those "especially saved"), until finally the Father becomes "all in all" in v28, after all powers of this world are conquered and death itself is overcome (v26). All things are made new (Rev 21.5).
The other passages from 1Tim highlight the plan to include all people at the proper time.
AllOtherNamesUsed 1 year ago
@AllOtherNamesUsed I want you to know I appreciate this study we're having. It is challenging me to dig and make sure I'm interpreting the bible as is correctly possible. I realize there will always be questions I won't have answers to until Christ comes. Now I want to focus on 1 Tim4:10.God is the saviour of all men, SPECIALLY THOSE WHO BELIEVE. What sets those who believe apart from all other men? Jn3:17,18 & 36 are the 3 scripture witnesses that give the answer.
potooth 1 year ago
@AllOtherNamesUsed Again, God is the Savior of all men in the sense that he desires all men to be saved. God means what he says through the 4th & 5th witnesses that I forgot to state, Jn1:12 But as many as RECEIVED HIM, TO THEM gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe. Who are those who received him? Those who believed. Jn3:36 He that believes on the Son has everlasting life: and he that BELIEVES NOT the Son SHALL NOT SEE LIFE but the wrath of God abides on him.
potooth 1 year ago
@AllOtherNamesUsed 1Cor15:24-28 isn't talking about continued deliverance beyond the 2nd coming. It says the end will come when Christ has put down all rule, authority and power, when he has put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. Then at the end, Christ will deliver up the kingdom to God the Father and he will once again be subject to God the Father so that God may be all in all. See Mt 11:27. When shall the end come?
potooth 1 year ago
@AllOtherNamesUsed When shall the end come? After the 1000 year time period which commenced at the 2nd coming of Christ. Rev20.
potooth 1 year ago
@AllOtherNamesUsed I would like to pause for a moment and point out some scriptures that you may or may not have considered. These scriptures shed light on the justice and mercy of God. Acts17:30-34 God will judge men according to the light they had. Jn10:27 I believe there are those who never heard the gospel yet respond to God's spirit and cooperate with him according to his working in their conscience. Mt25:37-40 Again, there will be many righteous who never heard the name of Jesus.
potooth 1 year ago
@potooth I mean't Mt25:34-40
potooth 1 year ago
@AllOtherNamesUsed I believe many of these righteous Jesus mentions never heard his name but they knew him. They were his sheep, they heard is voice and followed him.
potooth 1 year ago
@AllOtherNamesUsed I would like to do a quick overview of Rev19 & 20 1st event; Rev19, Christ and the armies of heaven return and the wicked are slain. 2nd event Rev20:1,2, Satan is bound for 1000 years and the wicked dead do not live until the 1000 years are finished. 3rd event; vs.7-8, Satan is freed from prison to once again deceive the nations. (Note: The wicked must be resurrected at this time in order for Satan to deceive the nations.)
potooth 1 year ago
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potooth 1 year ago
@potooth 4th event; vs9-10, Satan gathers the resurrected wicked to surround New Jerusalem for the final conflict of Armageddon. 5th event; vs11-12, the great white throne judgment. 6th event, The 2nd death which is the final destruction of the wicked, death and sin.
potooth 1 year ago
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potooth 1 year ago
@AllOtherNamesUsed How do you rectify the "all will be saved doctrine with Rev 19 & 20?
potooth 1 year ago
@AllOtherNamesUsed Now listen you who say, “Today or tomorrow we go to this or that city, spend a year there, carry on business and make money.” Why you do not even know what will happen tomorrow. What is your life? You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes. Instead you ought to say, “If it is the Lords will, we will live and do this or that.” anou if you're going to use scripture to back your position use it in the context that was intended.
potooth 1 year ago
@potooth Same principle. There is no offense to the meaning: if God wills us to live we will live. Nonbelievers live right now, is it ultimately their will or God's? The passage puts the ultimate authority of life in God, not Man as some intend.
I can't help but notice the common accusation from opponents of universal redemption is context abuse when in fact the opposite is true. Perfect example is quoting 1Cor15.21-23 stopping short of crucial text, or editing "especially.." from 1Tim 4.10.
AllOtherNamesUsed 1 year ago
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potooth 1 year ago
@AllOtherNamesUsed It is ultimatey God's will that the unbeliever lives right now. I agree with this part of your comment.
potooth 1 year ago
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potooth 1 year ago
@potooth "James wasn't talking about the Lord resurrecting all people from all ages and saving them when he returns."
Right, he was affirming that even the life of men is according to God's will not Man's will, hence be humble. Meanwhile you put God's will beneath unbelievers': "God's will doesn't determine that all will be saved. Having said this, God does desire all men to be saved."
In general terms:
"What he desires, that he does" Job 23.13 (check context)
Should we believe you or Job?
AllOtherNamesUsed 1 year ago
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potooth 1 year ago
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potooth 1 year ago
@AllOtherNamesUsed Ph2:10,11 is saying at the great white throne judgment which takes place after the 1000 year time period mentioned Rev20:2 everyone including those who denied Christ; this includes satan and the fallen angels, will own up to the fact that Jesus is Lord and Every knee will bow......
potooth 1 year ago
@potooth A good rule of thumb to insure you get the correct context on any bible subject is to find all scriptures on the subject being studied. Whom shall we teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little. Isaiah 28:9,10.
potooth 1 year ago
@potooth Yes. Now keep reading v12: "Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed..work out your OWN salvation with fear & trembling"
Paul made this about "salvation" right on the heels of the universal confession & contrasts it *chronologically* w. those who "ALWAYS obeyed" as opposed to delaying it til later. He says to work out YOUR OWN salvation. Then Paul unlocks a mystery egos still can't deal with:
v13: "for it is GOD who works IN YOU, both TO WILL & to work for his good pleasure."
AllOtherNamesUsed 1 year ago
@AllOtherNamesUsed NIV Therefore, my friends, as you have always obeyed not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence continue to workout your salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose. Ph2:12,13 Paul was exhorting the church at Philippi to continue working out their salvation as in the past when he was present and to be even more diligent about it when he is absent. Paul trusts that Christ's example in
potooth 1 year ago
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potooth 1 year ago
@AllOtherNamesUsed in vs5-11. Paul trusts that Christ's example will encourage them to more faithful obedience. We are saved by grace through faith. God's grace leads us to good works. Lk13:24 Jesus said “Strive to enter in at the gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. God's good works are manifested in our lives through our cooperation with his will and power. I experienced God's first good work in my life when I believed the good news.
potooth 1 year ago
@AllOtherNamesUsed God's will provided the initial stimulus that awakened my desire to be saved. He enabled me to make the decision to attain salvation and he supplies me with the power to make that decision effective so that salvation is accomplished in my life. I'm not a passive entity. My redemption is a cooperative work between God and myself. “Strive to enter in at the straight gate.” The redemptive work of God is a mystery.
potooth 1 year ago
@AllOtherNamesUsed Maybe there is a term more fitting than "free will" to describe my cooperative work with God but for now I can't think of one. Can you?
potooth 1 year ago
@AllOtherNamesUsed 1Tim4:10 ...the living God who is the savior of all people. This is true. Lets look at Jn3:18 He that believes on him is not condemned: but he that believes not is condemned already, because he hasn't believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. Vs.36 He that believes on the Son has everlasting life: and he that doesn't... shall not see life.... Jn1:12 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become the children of God.
potooth 1 year ago
@potooth God is the savior of all people but not everyone will be the people of the savior.
potooth 1 year ago
@potooth John spoke fine but when you fail to consider it in light of all scripture, the conclusions are amiss. Yes those who deny Christ are condemned, that does not mean that they can never believe (they will). That is why Paul says that God "is the Savior of all people" & let's show the part you edited out: "ESPECIALLY of those who believe." Why 'especially'? because we know Christ already suffered condemnation for ALL, some don't YET & condemn themselves as Judas did and committed suicide.
AllOtherNamesUsed 1 year ago
@AllOtherNamesUsed Those who currently reject Jesus still have time to repent, but time is short. Their time will expire when they die. Those who continue to neglect repeated opportunities until they die have sealed their fates.
potooth 1 year ago
@AllOtherNamesUsed Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of all people; and he will appear a 2nd time, not to bear sin, BUT TO BRING SALVATION TO THOSE WHO ARE WAITING FOR HIM. Heb 9:27 Who are those that are waiting for him? The righteous dead who are asleep in their graves and the righteous who are alive at his coming.
potooth 1 year ago
@potooth See 1Th4:16-17 on the resurrection of the righteous dead and translation of the righteous living.
potooth 1 year ago
@AllOtherNamesUsed Heb9:27 The unrighteous dead are not waiting for Christ. They didn't know him. How can they be waiting in their graves for someone they didn't know? The unrighteous dead will be resurrected after the 1000 years to face the great white throne judgment then the will experience the 2nd death.
potooth 1 year ago
The doctrines of Christian Universalism are built on the belief that the soul was created immortal. Immortality of the soul is not supported by scripture. Mortality of the soul is. Therefore the “all will be saved” doctrine is a false teaching. Jesus said only those who know him have eternal life. Jn17:3. The soul is mortal therefore the soul's only opportunity to know Christ is in this life. Jesus will not raise the unbelievers back to life and give them another opportunity to repent. (cont)
potooth 1 year ago
@potooth There fates are sealed at death. The CU's position on eternal hell punishing is correct. There is no scriptural support for this teaching. The hell fire camp is at one end of the scale and CU is at the other. Both are extremes. The teachings of CU will lull many unbelievers into a false sense of security. There is the possibility they will delay their decisions for Christ and miss the opportunity for salvation. (cont)
potooth 1 year ago
@potooth Not all Universalists believe in the immortality of the soul. I don't really follow any groups, I just go by what the bible says, but the two main groups were the Impartialists and the Restorationists; the former did not believe in immortality of the soul (no consciousness in death, Ps146.4;Ecc9.5) and I think are still the larger group, and the other does believe in the immortality of the soul. Google a great article titled:
The Pagan Immortal Soul and "Double Doctrine"
Cheers.
AllOtherNamesUsed 1 year ago
@AllOtherNamesUsed I found this information at widipedia. I think the immortality of the soul doctrine can be considered one of the offical tenets of the Christian Universalist Movement. Individuals in all faiths will have their independent beliefs and that can't be helped in some cases. If the organized church or movement of a particular faith doesn't hold to certain beliefs than how can it stand for anything?
potooth 1 year ago
@potooth I do not speak for any Universalist organization because I do not belong to them. However I do hope your research does not begin or end at Wikipedia. There will always be a group that branches off from this or that congregation, it happened even in Paul's day & Christ warned about it, we should not be surprised to find it here, but this is a separate issue. I personally hold to the bible and it clearly shows Universal salvation and does not teach the immortality of the soul doctrine.
AllOtherNamesUsed 1 year ago
@AllOtherNamesUsed I was trying to find the offical Christian Universalist website to view their doctrinal statement of faith. I didn't come up with anything. That in its self gives me pause. Am I searching for phantom? Is Christian Universalism an actual denomination like any other church organization? Educate me on this.
potooth 1 year ago
@potooth "Is Christian Universalism an actual denomination like any other church organization?"
I honestly don't have any affiliations with CU and only came to learn of universal salvation from the research of the late Ernest L. Martin. I don't know anyone from any CU churches or anything. I'm just an independent believer in Christ and the bible. I actually only looked into the "official" stance on immortality of the soul after I saw you mention it, so I book searched & learned of the split..
AllOtherNamesUsed 1 year ago
@AllOtherNamesUsed What is your most convincing argument in support of universal salvation?
potooth 1 year ago
@potooth "What is your most convincing argument in support of universal salvation?" I don't think there's any one particular way to sum it up in a few Youtube chatboxes. It takes years of studying and learning how the Spirit teaches through the ages, and what convinces one may not the other. Honestly, my knowledge exploded after I discovered the work of Ernest L. Martin. That doesn't mean I believe everything he taught.. That article I mentioned earlier is one of his. It is quite eye-opening.
AllOtherNamesUsed 1 year ago
@AllOtherNamesUsed You'd be surprised how much can be summed up in few youtube chat boxes. I've taken up pages of comment columns, well maybe not pages but a fair amount of space anyway. The reason I requested your most convincing argument is because the belief of universal salvation brings with it potentially negative eternal consequences. I've viewed a couple of youtube videos promoting CU and in each instance they presented their case by taking scripture out of context. (cont)
potooth 1 year ago
@potooth Maybe it would be best if you told me what the biggest problems you are finding in universal salvation?
AllOtherNamesUsed 1 year ago
@AllOtherNamesUsed My comments will show in reverse order so be sure to read from the bottom up.
potooth 1 year ago
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AllOtherNamesUsed 1 year ago
@AllOtherNamesUsed The point is: God's will doesn't determine that all will be saved. Having said this, God does desire all men to be saved. He sent His Son to make this possible but; Not all men will accept the gospel message of salvation. He created us with free wills. Love doesn't demand its own way 1Cor13:5. I'm able to respond to God's love. Yes this is possible only because He first loved me 1Jn4:19; but just as with the Jews I must decide to believe or not believe. The Jews chose not.
potooth 1 year ago
@potooth "God's will doesn't determine that all will be saved. Having said this, God does desire all men to be saved."
I believe this is the crux of the problem. With this statement you are elevating Man's will above God's, relegating God's wlll inferior to Man's. This of course has no basis in holy writ, nor in my view, logic. To simplify this, the problem becomes one of faith in what scripture says:
"What he desires, that he does" Job 23.13
"If the Lord wills, we will live" James 4.15
AllOtherNamesUsed 1 year ago
@potooth Mk14.61-65 Again the high priest asked him, “Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?” And Jesus said, “I am, and you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power, & coming with the clouds of heaven.” & the high priest tore his garments & said, “What further witnesses do we need? You have heard his blasphemy. What is your decision?” & they all condemned him as deserving death. & some began to spit on him.."
Was Christ wrong that the high priest would see Christ return?
AllOtherNamesUsed 1 year ago
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potooth 1 year ago
@AllOtherNamesUsed Please restate this question about Christ and the priest. I'm not sure what you're asking.
potooth 1 year ago
@potooth I just wanted confirmation that you believe Christ when he told the high priest that he (the high priest) would see him (Christ) "coming with the clouds of heaven." And if so, do you believe this has already happened?
AllOtherNamesUsed 1 year ago
@AllOtherNamesUsed The priests will see Christ when he comes in the clouds and it would have to take place at the time the righteous dead and living are caught up to meet Christ in the air. I believe it will be a momentary resurrection to fulfill scripture and then the unrepentant priests will be slain by the brightness of his coming along with the unsaved living. There is no scriptural support for this but to remain consistent with the nature of the 2nd coming it would have to be true.
potooth 1 year ago
@potooth I meant priest not priests.
potooth 1 year ago
@AllOtherNamesUsed God obviously predestines history. He sets up and removes kings. Before the foundation of the world God had the plan of redemption in place. He knew us before we were born. God knows the beginning from the end. He often gave Israel conditional prophecies concerning the fate of their nation. If they obeyed God this would happen. If they disobeyed that would happen. He knows what I will answer my prayers even before I think what to pray. I'm not disputing this element of
potooth 1 year ago
@potooth God's directing of history. I know there were may times in my life when I didn't say yes to the invitation. Is invitation the right word? Yes God commissons people to invite other people to know Jesus. There was a point in my life when I finally said yes. Thanks be to God. Yes He was drawing me to him all those years and one day I said yes. He still draws me and I still say yes. Its a relationship. He gives and I give. Freely have you received, freely give. Mt10:8
potooth 1 year ago
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potooth 1 year ago
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potooth 1 year ago
@potooth Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. Rev3:20 It takes a willingness on man's part to open the door of his heart to receive Jesus. It doesn't get any clearer than this.
potooth 1 year ago
@potooth Exactly, and in due time, each in their own order, all will confess Christ as their lord just as it is solemnly sworn (Isa45.22-23) & reaffirmed (Rom14.9-14;Phi2.10). This in no way means there will not be a time of judgment before this happens. Each will come to a knowledge of the truth as the plan unfolds because it is the will of God(1Tim2.4), WHEN that happens is not Man's will. God's will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Even in heaven some angels rebel, God's will allows this.
AllOtherNamesUsed 1 year ago
@AllOtherNamesUsed Testified in due time. 1Tim2:6 The plan of salvation was made before the foundation of the world. For thousands of years from the time the world was created man's repeated attempts to attain righteousness by works failed. It was clearly demonstrated to the universe that apart from God man could never be restored. In due time Jesus entered this world and gave himself a ransom for all. The mission of Christ to earth confirmed God's plan to save all men. Jesus' death
potooth 1 year ago
@AllOtherNamesUsed on the cross is the testimony of God's plan of salvation. "In due time" is not referring to an after death restoration of the wicked back to God after the 2nd coming.
potooth 1 year ago
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potooth 1 year ago
@AllOtherNamesUsed Rom14:7-9 Paul addresses the church in Rome. For non of us lives to himself, and no man dies to himself. For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; whether we live therefore or die we are the Lords. For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord of both the dead and the living. Paul is talking about believers whether they be dead or living. He's not talking about every dead or living person saved or unsaved.
potooth 1 year ago
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potooth 1 year ago
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@potooth So the gist of it is that there is no predestination and the Jews in Acts 13* rejected salvation, therefore universal salvation is impossible? Is that right?
AllOtherNamesUsed 1 year ago
@AllOtherNamesUsed Thus the unbelieving Jews were not appointed to eternal life. They sealed their fate and went to their graves with the decision they made. There are no second chances. This is why those who believe the " all will be saved" doctrine are in jeopardy of missing the opportunity for salvation. It may be assumed there is no urgency in making a decision for Christ. One might think in the back of their mind " I will be saved anyway" so they may put off this life or death decision.
potooth 1 year ago
@AllOtherNamesUsed One example in particular attempted to use Acts13:48 to prove God predestined or appointed eternal life to the Gentiles and that it was His will alone that determined their fate. Go to therealgoodnews part 3a "Who are we trying to reach" video and after listening to it read my comments refuting it.
potooth 1 year ago
It amazes me how most of Christendom do not understand plain English.I have always believed the doctrine of God being the Savior of all because of the scriptures you have mentioned, long before a lot of people were aware of errors in translation, even myself!! I always thought to myself that God wants us to love our enemies and yet He is going to burn puny man who is and cannot be His match, in an eternal hell fire !?!? Thank you for sharing the truth!!!!
miss3v3lyn 1 year ago
Great video, great message!!!!!!!
miss3v3lyn 1 year ago
Ive already seen all your videos hundreds of times, (because i downloaded them to watch night after night on my pc as i battled depression) caused by...dun dun dun...yep you guessed it, that horrible doctrine of eternal hell.
Luckily there are men out there with great love, unafraid to preach the truth.
Dennis when you are in heaven one day, and you see someone running towards you ready to give you a great big hug...theres a good chance it will be me.
GODISUNIVERSAL 2 years ago
comments like yours make it all worth it.....
NOT1LOST 3 years ago
When I finally understood this, it was like a revelation.Honestly, it feels like a weight has lifted some how. I agree,I like your way of speaking. Thanks for putting these up.
bulldog1961 3 years ago
Just jokin. Don't send me anything. LOL.
SethP1984 3 years ago
Yah reigns . The conclusion of this becomes undeniable , every single cross reference here just confirms and builds on inclusiveness . How can the ecclesia say otherwise ? We're saved and corrected for His celestial family whether we like it or not . And some day the rest LEARN to Like it... lol . oh post script... I put a link up on my ocean vid back to part one of this .
LiteralWord 3 years ago
Don't change a thing....I like your style!!
piscesR2cool 3 years ago
Thanks piscesR2cool, for the 5***** and thank for the comment on my time; guess its just my Arkansas country ways :) really though, there is just something about sitting here in front of this camera. Nothing like standing in front of a crowd, that is easier for me than this or maybe its just the presents of the people and there spirit drawing from my spirit. dono
NOT1LOST 3 years ago
5***** and favored. The reason you have to always make 2 is because of your mellow way of talking. I've watched videos on youtube where they talk so fast I have a hard time keeping up with them. lol
piscesR2cool 3 years ago
Thanks piscesR2cool, for the 5***** and thank for the comment on my time; guess its just my Arkansas country ways :) really though, there is just something about sitting here in front of this camera. Nothing like standing in front of a crowd, that is easier for me than this or maybe its just the presents of the people and there spirit drawing from my spirit. dono
NOT1LOST 3 years ago