StarCraft 2 - DeMusliM [T] vs Grubby [P] G2 - Commentary

[InfestedChris]

Why don't terrans use there ghosts??? They are so powerful for nuking expands. Another thing is why not get some ravens for seeker missiles for the major portion of the army?

[Kewldoood27]

i am your 100th like ^_^

[holl01]

Just wondering, what buttons and mouse work does he do when he attacks then retreats, then attacks then retreats, mainly when he was confronted by zealots near the end, looks awesome. I am obviously a complete noob

[YTClone]

@holl01 Right-click to retreat, S to stop and attack

[LifeOfTheAfterParty]

Loved Grubby in WC3, still love him in SC2

[kohho24890]

"another army is sitting around with their thumbs up their butts" gotta love that saying <3

[SmmGibson]

omg i love to just spam DT's and chargelots, i swear there is almost nothing you can do about it ahah

[crazypsycho69]

okay well how to you keep that 'ball' alive? you heal your units. how do you do that, you ask? you get medivacs. Its a good strat. you said it urself. so why are u talking trash on it.

[1stTilt]

@crazypsycho69 You don't need to heal units if you win the battle. The shear dmg stim can do and the add of ghosts is far more viable early as you save time with production. You always have a larger army and there's die extremely quick. Once the main battle takes place you win it and rally units to the base. Stim doesn't hurt that much compared to the dmg out put. It seems like you need to heal because all people ever watch is larger battles with more supply. In small numbers stim is very strong

[1stTilt]

@crazypsycho69 Also why I go 4 rax. One base perfectly balances eco with 4 rax and actually starts to gain more as the game goes past 10mins allowing for an expand. The earlier you hit the better. 3 ghosts and a ton of marines/mauraders beat every army I've come up against save one game on Taldarim to which I double expanded and won with upgrades on everything and steam rolled for the win. I'm going to try nuke play and bunkers though and see how it works if I won't win the first battle.

[noriega78]

post game recap is very cool.

[crazypsycho69]

Also i think maybe muslim should've thrown in a few mechs if nothing else just to deal with the force shields. the shields were really starting to hurt him and he should've done a little more to deal with them. emp or SOMETHING

[crazypsycho69]

I dont play in platnum, but if i had to guess I'd say most people above gold dont really waste money on cannons. especially later than 10 minutes into the game

[jojojon1234]

Tass

[jojojon1234]

@1sttilt if your so smart and great why aren't you in that vid? All pro tarren go bio medic because its basically the best since ur can be reinforced quick and can be upgraded fast not to mention had awesome upgrades that got nerfed a ton and MEECH SUCKS VS TRESS WITH NOTHING TO STOP CHARGLOTS

[1stTilt]

@jojojon1234 I'm not in that vid because I don't have as good micro/macro, I am however destroying any toss I go up against in silver league with a strat I go with that is the definition using a unit and transitioning into something else. You are however dead wrong about bio medic being the best, proof of that is the fact they all loose again and again doing it. I'd say what my strat is but then I loose an edge and my strat in there hands would be far more effective.

[bubba18sar]

@1stTilt ARe you fucking kidding me? Silver league? lol.. if you were destroying every protoss you played you wouldn't be in silver league. You think posting your garbage silver league strat in a comments section on a youtube video is going to break your game? If your strat is so good then you wouldn't worry about other toss players seeing it.. even more so.. HOW WOULD THEY KNOW IT'S YOU? LOL. you ar a joke.. pro terran's use bio/medivac because everything else SUCKS vs toss. LMAO.. silver

[1stTilt]

@bubba18sar Your right everything else vs toss does suck including bio medivac, the gas used on medivacs should be put into another unit. And actually I do care if a toss knows it because it can be countered and if they do the right build I have to pull back and double expand. Then transition into something else and CAN afford the new upgrade cost and steam roll them at a later time. While I have to transition I utilize medivac for what they are good for, SMALL DROPS, with thor or bio.

[bubba18sar]

@1stTilt Dude.. do you really think that every toss you play on ladder is going to see this?? If they do see this.. how will they know it's you when you play them? IT'S silver league! Expect in the future leagues that you do that you WILL be scouted. No build is unscoutable.. LIKE I said before.. you should only do builds.. that even when scouted they will still do damage.. or else you are fucked. Drops with thors now? LOL.. this is silver league. Congrats.. you do drops.

[1stTilt]

@bubba18sar also if a player is having trouble defending against 2 banshee's they are not properly preparing with there builds. I always get a engineering bay up in case I go up against banshee's as wasting scans are never 100% effective, that or go 1 banshee, then raven. Cloaked units are a joke tactic utilized by players with poor strats and there skill is solely based on another players lack of skill to tackle cloaked.

[bubba18sar]

@1stTilt uhm.. no.. cloaked units are a viable strat. Why are you talking about going up against banshees? We are talking about TvP.. you don't go up against banshees. Also not every build incorporates an early E-bay.. again showing why you are still in silver league. Pro strat openers are made almost to 100 food.. you have to rely on scans sometimes. You also said you don't go 1/1/1.. how do you get banshees then a Raven? Which is 300 gas alone in the early game. LOL.. you are a joke.

[jimmymaakthetbont]

Grubby!

[Ferenczys]

@John04Civic chargelots are a hard counter to tanks. It takes six siege volleys to drop a zealot. What's more the charge engages your bio which means you are taking splash damage from the tanks. I've heard of an alternative TvP build that is mosly marines/ghosts/tanks, but it is vulnerable to pure zealot/collosus.

[John04Civic]

Why no siege tanks? That would have completely turned things around IMO.

[1stTilt]

DeMuslim sucks. Matter of fact, most of these terran pro's suck.

All they ever do is marine, marauders against toss and they wonder why they lose. On top of the fact they have two base and they only support an army of bio is pathetic. So sick of watching these guys lose as its always a one sided battle with the toss coming out ahead. For a pro you'd think they would learn that bio medivac is the worst viable strat mid game.

[bubba18sar]

@1stTilt What army comp would you suggest there grandmasters fucking pro? Terran have no choice.. please say fucking mech so I can shit on you.

[1stTilt]

@bubba18sar Mech is the worst choice against toss. Thor's are alright but tanks, and hells are shit vs toss. I play terran and shit on every toss I play. I also won't suggest anything as I'll lose my edge. I'm happy knowing I win every game against toss and its the most played race. They are predictable as hell, my strat has worked against every toss strat from 4 gate, 2 gate early pressure zealots, 3 gate expand, colosus, immortal, I own them everytime no matter what they do.

[bubba18sar]

@1stTilt Fucking idiots like you . Let me guess your suggestion.. You think he should go mech? But you don't realize that mech upgrades don't go with bio upgrades.. so he would have to start with mech in order to keep up with the toss upgrades.. which means that the toss would go chargelot/immmortal/blink stalker. The comp that LULZ at mech/siegetanks. Secondly.. a zealot can take 5-6 VOLLIES FROM A SIEGE TANK. The ONLY tier 1 unit that can take that much damage from a siege tank. Clown

[1stTilt]

@bubba18sar Idiots like me win every game I play vs toss. My suggestion also is not mech. There is one viable use for mech against toss and its a thor. I also do realize mech don't go with bio upgrades. I like the fact you raise points that I don't even use. I've not had a siege tank in my army vs toss for some time, I could care less how many zealots can take a shot as I never shoot them with a tank. So nice useless arguement clown. I play the race terran and my strat in there hands would own.

[bubba18sar]

@1stTilt Your strat in there hands? lol.. if your strat was so good I gaurantee that it would be used already.. please don't tell me it's some "Air terran" build either. You are in silver league. You can do anything to beat toss as long as your mechanics/macro are better. Silver league is a joke.. you probably start with banshees in which it's difficult for silver league plat players to deal with this because they mostly 4 gate. GTFO.

[1stTilt]

@bubba18sar I'm actually very surprised that more terrans don't play as I do. As they are missing one of the most powerful units terran has to offer. Air terran is meant only against other terrans as they always go tank bio. I also rarely go the destiny cloud fist build, usually its HEY guess what used againt terrans because they go siege! Silver league is a joke and I'm getting tired of not being put up, as my strat doubles against zerg.

[bubba18sar]

@1stTilt lol.. dude.. like I said. If your strat was so good.. then post it. You say you don't go bio.. you don't go mech.. you don't go sky terran.. Well That's pretty much all of it. You have no good strat. You are a silver league troll. When and IF you ever get out of silver league you will realize that your strat is garbage and get rid of it, because like I said.. silver league players can win off of better macro and mechanics alone. Post the shitty strat.. or STFU.

[1stTilt]

@bubba18sar I never said I don't go bio, I said I don't go bio/medivac. Bio is the best part of a terran army, put transitioning into medivac is a poor choice of unit for 2 base. Medivac is meant for 3 base as there are then enough base's to harass with thor or bio and never more than 1 medivac at a time as you open yourself to losing counter attacks as your army is spread out.

[bubba18sar]

@1stTilt So you don't go medivac? So you don't do drops until 3 base? lol What if you get into a battle and pull out but your units are all in the red? you let them stay that way because you don't have your third base up yet? Why would you use factory units and bio units into the late game? So you don't do any harrass until you are on 3 bases? .. what do you use when you see collossus come off of 2 bases? lol.. this is fucking awesome. Please keep going.

[1stTilt]

@bubba18sar The best strat vs toss is 4rax, 1marine double add, the other 3 marauder add. With two gas timed right you can supply a perfectly balanced army of MARINE, MAURADER, GHOST. Save a scan when you go to attack for sentries, then emp them march up and emp the rest, stim FOR THE WIN. The transition is if its a huge map like taldarim they have cannons, they have enough to defend but not attack, so you scan again to find out if you'll win the battle.

[bubba18sar]

@1stTilt 4 rax huh? so you get 4 rax up.. a ghost academy and two gas? At what time does this hit? Because you having to wait for stim/energy for ghost for emp. I'm gonna guess about 7-8 minutes huh? That's hoping out of silver league that pro players don't separate there sentries at the top of the ramp right? Because you will be scouted leaving your base or on the way to theres because they will have an observer by then.. so when they separate there sentries and keep Forcefield the ramp?

[1stTilt]

@bubba18sar If and when I start to go up against that I'll adapt like any good player and not enter a battle I'll lose. I can then set up shop outside there main with bunkers or high tail back and double expand. The key point of it is that I always have more army supply so they can't hope to win a battle outside there base giving me time to double expand or hold them on one base. By the time they have enough to roll over my army I'm already countering them with thors or vikings.

[1stTilt]

@bubba18sar the key point of the strat is to amass a BIGGER ball than the protoss ball and KEEP that ball. If you actually watched this video you would know that is why the toss wins everytime. So you simply turn there advantage into a weakness.

[bubba18sar]

@1stTilt You are right.. this strat does work in SILVER LEAGUE! But in the real world.. the toss army will have either expanded.. or when they saw your 4 rax with there observer they rushed to collossus.. which would rape your army trying to STIM up the ramp.. with no medivacs. So.. when you are done getting.. 4 rax of units/ghost academy/enough supply depots to support this/stim.. you are way behind if it's held off.. because you have no economy.. no factory.. no ebay.. no starport.. no nothin

[1stTilt]

@bubba18sar I've been up against up to 3 colosus and won. So I can tell you that doesn't work. 8 times out of ten I see the observer come in and scan to kill it. They may see the ghost but they never prepare enough. If they expand they are further behind in army and its easier to take down. The only way they win is if they build enough units combined with canons to make up for the difference in army supply. I see that and pull back then double expand. They can't beat my army out of base.

[crazypsycho69]

@1stTilt If they're not preparing enough, thats probably why they're in silver league lol

[1stTilt]

@bubba18sar My strat is good, its the sole purpose of terran to go heavy bio early as its the first building. The mistake they make is there transition. The buildings are placed in a specific order for a reason with the factory complimenting defense with ONE unit, thor or siege tank. Then again with the star port with a mix of air units on THREE base, unless you have to adapt to certain unit selection.

[bubba18sar]

@1stTilt So how do you get upgrades when you have bio/mech? You do both? How is that efficient as you have to upgrade attack/armor on both? While the toss army is only getting upgrades once with chronoboost? Allowing them to get more units because you are upgrading 2 separate things? Even more so if you don't get medivacs to do harass and you are in defense mode what keeps them from taking more bases? If you use stim early what do you do because you have no medivacs to heal you? lol.. awesom

[1stTilt]

@bubba18sar I don't build an engineering bay on one base against toss. Its a waste of resources and takes to long doesn't time up with stim unless you cut something and then your army is not big enough to defend properly. I never have to heal my units because I face roll there army.

[bubba18sar]

@1stTilt oh.. so you rely on scans when you get DT rushed? Got it.. because you said you don't go 1/1/1 so you don't have a starport for ravens. Ohh.. you don't get DT rushed in silver?? LOL.. face roll them? lol.. you have much to learn. Until you get to atleast high platinum.. just work on your mechanics and your macro. That will win you games. Good luck kid.. lessons over. Nice job on your super pro strat that would roll over every toss pro.. too bad you didn't share. lol

[1stTilt]

@bubba18sar DT rush is useless against toss, if they invest that much into it I have a far superior army and base race. Being that I can raise buildings I raise them until my army destroys there probes while they attack mine, if they come back I land and scan. An army of 60 supply can destroy toss pylons in about 1mins with emps and stim. Once production is halted the probes die and then I march back to clean up dt's.

[1stTilt]

@bubba18sar If you actually played the strat you would see it works very well against toss and zerg. You are able to effectively steam roll any army without some serious static defense. They have to match the army size with cannons or crawlers. Ghost also doubles against roaches with aim shot and if you can't take down the army at the base ghost doubles for defense/harass with nuke play. This I've yet to even try as no one can hold of my push.

[1stTilt]

@1stTilt Finally if you new anything about playing a RTS game you'd have learned in AOE that turtling play is a way to lose. By going for the natural you give up map control. You shouldn't expand until you have map CONTROL. Being why heavy STARTER units are utilized to GAIN that map control and why a double expand after if you can't face roll works because you have the ENTIRE map for control.

[1stTilt]

@bubba18sar There are only 2 maps I've come across that my strat doesn't work. Taldarim Altar and Scrap Station. Both are easy to maintain map control in because even if they manage an expand they can't get out with proper bunker placement, holding them in the TURTLE play. Both are excellent because once held you can take any expansion. This is where possible tank play comes into use to continue to hold them. Being a natural transition out of 4rax. Or if you want to push Thors.

[SoCalAries]

loving the recaps at the end

[zoneboiswimmabeast]

I think emp would have made a big difference... He had no feedback hts this game so ghosts would have been good

[Ferenczys]

@bubba18sar vikings are good because they have range to hit the collosi, but do little against the rest of the ball unless you land them. Banshees have higher dps against collosi but have to get close. I wasn't suggesting all of the above, but he needed to harass SOMEHOW. I really like Banshees agaist protoss because they do more for you than pure vikings would, especially if he switches up and goes Immortal heavy in response to you massing vikings.

[bubba18sar]

@Ferenczys Dude.. that's not how the metagame works. If you are massing vikings/banshees and killing collossus they transition to HT's. Which rape banshees with storm/feedback. They don't downgrade back to immortals. By that time in the game they have a templars out because that's the natural transition to get 2/2 upgrades. Yes.. I do agree that he should have done some harass, but banshees are more gas heavy than vikings which is the limiting factor on two base.. and they are made of glass.

[LALOteria]

Honestly, Force is a great commentator, BUT, sometimes he's way 2 serious and if you are only looking for having a good time with some SC2 reps Husky and Day9 are much more entertaining.

I think watching Force is good for actually improving ur game, but this game was quitte boring =SSSS

[Nasherize]

im being serious why doesn't force have more

-more view's

-more subscribers

-more likes

-and more 'force fans'!!

[MonoCabron123]

8:39 Shooting and scooting at the rocks. That's what i call PRO.

[OsnaSkyline]

demuslim ftw :p

[ImS0Shady]

The "Post game recap" is really great! Thanks Force :)

[Ericbejarano213]

Forcefields are the same as hearing a girl say "Nope, don't think so, not right now at least" right before sex.

[SoCalAries]

@Ericbejarano213 "im tiiiiiiired can we do it some other time?"

[NathBonn]

force fields are way to effective, instant walls seems unfair I think

[Ferenczys]

The thing is, the deathball is slow, and vulnerable if it splits up. I'm nowhere near as good as DeMuslim, but he needed to try and hit Gruby's supply, taking out probes with drops, and taking advantage of the speed of the ball. He has to keep it together or it is much weaker, and vikings can sweep in and snipe the collosi. Banshees to rove around and hit multiple fronts would have helped too, and a Raven seems like it would have been a wise investment given the DTs from game 1.

[bubba18sar]

@Ferenczys lol... seriously? So.. he has to double pump vikings.. while getting a raven that can get sniped instantly.. while getting banshee with cloak and getting upgrades/medivacs? Im sorry.. how much gas do you think 2 bases supports?

[janissku]

love game recap thing you do!

[xLACKOSx]

holy shit grubby make toss look op, he just micros so well

[ziribai]

man i miss watching speedy gonzales!

[Get1nn]

Hitting the space bar makes the camera go to the most recent event in the game, for instance when a unit is finished and u hit space bar the camera will go to that unit, or when a building or upgrade is finished the camera will go there. very nice to use :)

[BeeFBoYDjJC]

grubby<3

[IITheRing0II]

lol

[thepro101]

Seige tanks ? did u really just say that? charge lots run up and the tanks start splashing themselves, and then colosi and immortal can litterally walk into seige lines with minimal losses

[Matthew2185]

Gruby is a beast... Geez......Does he lose ? LOL

[ExtendedVersion]

what to do? Siege tanks!

[odysseymugthol]

how did force not notice the worker supply of 30-63 and the DT that wiped out the expansion.

seems hard to miss.

[JFaddicted]

@jrauch4 trololololololol....

[MrTrinz]

Its cool how you do a recap of the game.

[methus87]

Did grubby lose any games cause all the time he seems 2 steamroll his opponents with late game tech?

[Babjengi]

Ghosts? Tanks? Thors? Banshees? Blue flame hellion drops? Highest dps units in the game and he sticks with un upgraded tier 1 army without harass... No wonder terrans suck, no one uses their good units

[bubba18sar]

@Babjengi Tanks? Thors? lol.. mech vs P sucks.. you can't use both effectively. Unlike toss the upgrades for bio don't count towards mech.. which means he would have to start with mech. A chargelot can take 6 volleys from a siege tank! LOL.. the only tier 1 unit in the game that can take 6 shots from a tank. If DeMuslim started with mech then grubby would have countered that build with chargelots/immortals/blink stalkers. Tanks/thors/banshees? All VERY heavy gas units.

[scarface1224md]

@Babjengi lol, so true =)

[jhl0712]

@Babjengi ghosts.. yea he needed them. tanks.. good dps but becuz of zelots it'll be worthless due to the zelots hp and frienldy fire on ur own units + its very immobile. thors.. very high dps but only targets one unit at a time, same cost as colosi but only 7 range and its countered by almost all of toss's units. banshees.. good dps but without cloak it gets target fired too quickly and easily by stalkers since its so fragile, unless u can micro them behind ur army (then itll be very worth it)

[Babjengi]

@jhl0712 Well, cannons upgrade on thor means dead colossus. I just think back to jinro vs. MC, and I wonder why that style of mech just died off? It was so hard to counter without carriers AND HT's.

[jrauch4]

Force, just as a suggestion: It would be nice if you didn't use the same phrases all the time. Hearing the "There you have it" for the millionth time just makes me wince.

[Sampopankki]

@jrauch4 Dude, all commentators have phrases they sometimes use... it's not that easy to make sense of things in such a fast paced game... I think he is good at what he does and also has some critical knowladge of the gameflow and overall mechanics... that's the sign of a good commentator... if you can give me a better performance then i shall stand corrected... Peace

[metal0artist0kyle]

I really like these new post game review things.

[TheOneWhoLived]

why doesn't he make raven, after seeing those DT int he first game

[TheOneWhoLived]

space bar moves your screen to the latest Notice

[mikeeissexy]

Maybe more drop play from De might have been better, a raven would have helped but definitely letting a deathball form is what gets ppl killed "once the deathball is formed youre fucked" --mr.Bitter

[majinspy]

This is rough :\ DeMuslim expands earlier and, unless he just died on macro, was still behind. He had less army when they originally fought and fewer upgrades I believe. He did really need to get a raven out. Its worth building a tech lab on the factory, building the raven, and switching the starport back to reactor. Slowly building a few tanks to cement control / ghosts to EMP wouldn't have been bad either. You can't beat protoss death ball at 200/200 straight up with MMM + Viking.

[TheFireInside9]

i am also addicted to these commentaries.

[saintninian]

I milked a hamster once...

[thegarbageman21]

not sure what to do ... how about getting a damn raven lol jesus. Point defense + detection ... Heads up against protoss ball is never going to go in terrans favor

[sKittlEVINe]

If I watched commentaries as much as I played, Id be sooo freakin pro

[Warphaker]

I find myself refreshing the youtube homepage many times in order to find out if any additional sc2 commentaries have been added, lol. Than I jizz in my pants when I find one :D

[FunkWolf]

Manhandle

[acemanz888]

Yeah man... Protoss seems OP now with the stim nerfed and their ability to re-up their army so fast and those force feilds unless you rush them earlier or they suck protoss have the upper hand.....which is fiiiine cuz i play toss :P heheh

[MrEpic100]

@acemanz888 lol tier 3 with upgr against tier 1 without = obvious toss win

[acemanz888]

@MrEpic100 LIES!! all LIIIES!

[MrEpic100]

@acemanz888 lol

[agostinho1234]

you know that you do an awesome match up when the adversary says "not really sure what to do" and he basically give up!

Grubby is being outstanding!

[iliofotou]

mmm and no upgrades

no tanks, no ghosts, no thors ... nah, aint evergonna work

[Bawlsackable]

I don't know why, but every time I see a game versus protoss I just want protoss to lose. I guess I feel like protoss is a pretty strong race compared to the other ones. They're the bulkier, stronger, more expensive race, after all.

[thegarbageman21]

@Bawlsackable most pro's agree that protoss is the strongest race right now.

[1stTilt]

@thegarbageman21 thats because no plays terran right.

[RyantheCanuckpirate]

...

[ta2dmax]

Really enjoy watching your commentaries. Keep up the great work

[itirnitii]

Make something other thank marines and marauders? They are tier 1/1.5....

[bubba18sar]

@itirnitii You mean like vikings and medivacs? Because they are tier 2.5/3

[itirnitii]

@bubba18sar They can't attack ground effectively though. Not the same.

[agostinho1234]

just a matter of time to watch other progamers hunting pylons in the early game against grubby and he losing a lot of minerals "for free"

[matrixx29]

just as a minor request, could you put a compressor on your vocals please? great vids though!

[lonleyon3]

I have been watching SC2 commentary back to back. I find it more entertaining than playing the actual game. But I swear this will be the last one I watch so, I can start playing

[Bakuhatsu233]

@lonleyon3 haha lol, as simple as that comment might seem, it made my day lol :)

[lonleyon3]

@Bakuhatsu233 :D

[1337EricOMG]

@lonleyon3 Somewhat true. SC2 is fun when you win! SO START WINNING!

[lonleyon3]

@1337EricOMG It is fun to win, but I'm a noob and I get harassed for being one and even more when I actually win a game or two.

[stuurhuis69]

@lonleyon3 suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure I bet you're still watching. I know how you feel.. I suck at the game so I like to watch these and imagine I'm that good. :P

[lonleyon3]

@stuurhuis69 No I really did go play, I lost real bad the more advanced players wouldn't let me catch a break

[TarnishedWolf]

These games with Grubby are some of the best I've seen.

[ellomatezz]

@lonleyon3 because the game is so frustrating DX

[lonleyon3]

@ellomatezz It does get frustrating, But I keep telling myself I paid good money for the game so I must master it.

[acemanz888]

i vote we stop doing what place we come in and just shout random stuff at force and try and get him to sing another song! lol

[BlenorPL]

@1990Freddiemercury no, this will

[XplicitProject]

@1990Freddiemercury for no reason is actually a reason :)

[hower4o]

@1990Freddiemercury thumb down too

[freerunningftw123]

204th

[Anime958]

Thirds or wut eves

[acemanz888]

third? :P

[BLANEmanBLANE]

2nd