Euclideon & Unlimited Detail - Bruce Dell Interview by John Gatt

[ReddBeest]

At 35:35 you can actually see a flat ground :O

[hombacom]

Why is the interviewer not more critical on the ugly repetion, how much storage you need for hiresolution or the lack of any effects? No real answers. It's so childish explanation with the cookies, like the viewers are stupid.

[acf2802]

I like how this video yet again doesn't clarify or back up anything. Who would take the word of some random CEO nobody has ever heard of, regarding graphics technology, over the word of John Carmack? I'm pretty sure Euclideon WILL disappear again, as soon as they get their money.

[TorraKex]

For gods sake, it's not atoms, it's voxels. They're just saying atoms because it sounds more impressive.

Just search for voxels on wikipedia.

[Zoza15]

@TorraKex You need to listen of what he says, Its Voxels in unlimited quanitities using the search algorythm..

[TorraKex]

@Zoza15 I never said it wasn't unlimited voxels, but storing voxeldata on an atomic level would be redundant especially in games, hell, even for medical use that would be redundant. Not to mention that they haven't solved any other problems with the voxel technology such as dynamic lighting, particle effects, animation etc. Which is why we almost exclusively use voxels as static objects in games today (complex terrain for example, overhanging cliffs, tunnels and so on).

[MrBiotrade]

Since a few day's its possible to get 1 Byte on 12 Iron atoms. Normally you need 500.000.000 atoms for 1 Byte. But this Technology is not really ready for the next year.

Think about how many data you could compress and use...

[MrMan1940]

Euclidean

[mcsleeachuck]

Though i can't say i know much about graphics rendering, i bet that they are probably dealing with environmental interaction problems. It seems that they render and environment and demo how awesome it looks when you fly all around it. But what about wind in the trees, kicking up dirt, throwing objects. I imagine that might be difficult since you'd have to attribute one or many atoms with physics traits. I imagine that the atoms would begin to behave more like pixels and slow the processor down.

[jorgenhb]

what about live rendering???

[andrewcarmock]

so explain to me why this isn't implemented yet

[thijsphilosopher]

@andrewcarmock Because it's not finished yet...

Damn i like this company! Euclideon, keep doing what you're doing :)

[TechGalaxyMC]

@andrewcarmock it is still not finsihed. should be finished soon

[artdragondream]

The reason why people hate Euclideon is because they are a BIG threat to a large number of major industries. For one they are going to make graphics cards as they are now obsolete and unnecessary. These companies count on the gaming industry becoming more and more graphically intensive so they can make newer more powerful versions of there product and sell more units. You can bet that these computer industries are going to do what ever they can to wipe Euclideon out once they become popular.

[thijsphilosopher]

@artdragondream capitalism....money first, creativity last

[rtzurtzufghjfghj]

der spasti arbeitete in einem call center. das ist die einzigst wahre aussage im video. ich kenn mich mit programmieren mehr aus als jeder spasti hier und euclideon sind dumme abzocker. punkt

[1993edddie]

hey i have a question why do you not higher more poeple to get this program out the gaming company needs more graphics so they stop paying for the stupid graphics and work on the fun like netindo.

[VisionXtream]

WHY WOULD YOU NEED BUMP MAPS... YOU HAVE ALL THE BUMPS ALREADY???

[VisionXtream]

Is this going to replace, like, OPENGL or does it use DirectX or something similar?

[nfish10]

@VisionXtream no, 'cause it's not working for games and other real-time applications. it's only working for constant, not-moving environments

[JBantha]

Thundercats sword :D

[DEKYW]

Insn't that Falsh-powered doom?

[WonderTheTestical]

Damn, their laptop's attributes are freaking high, mine's just bull crap, can my PC handle there technology? Mine isn't that bad though....

[tekknej]

inb4 Notch hires an assassin

[BriggsRed]

Like Notch even has a say in what can and can't be done. He can barely program stuff into Minecraft. And stuff he deems "impossible" to program is implemented by modders hours later.

Its also ironic that Notch calls him a scammer.

[ComicPenius]

"The world's problems cannot be solved by skeptics or cynics whose horizons are limited by obvious realities. We need men and women who can dream of things that never were."

- John F. Kennedy

[ComicPenius]

I think John Carmack meant that the technology was too new to make building a game possible at this point and that current systems would be obsolete by the time the tools, techniques etc would be ready for prime time. I don't think he meant that current systems weren't powerful enough to run it.

[gamingfaces]

@TheHomicidalEagle All I know is it uses a search algorithm for all data, We all will find out more when Bruce pops his head up next time.

[TheHomicidalEagle]

How can you compress a piece of data that's in its smallest state? Data has a minimum of 0 or 1.... so 800 atoms would minimum be 100 bytes.... so 8 billion atoms would be 100MB of ram but that is just raw data duno how many atoms are run at once in that demo, but a 1x1km area is 64 billion atoms which is 8GB of data right there.... by using the 64 atoms p/ sqr mm If how they say this coding works. I am all for this tech, but i dont understand how it can work logically

[gamingfaces]

@TheHomicidalEagle its 1 atom for every pixel on the screen only... as it says in the video.

[hombacom]

@gamingfaces Don't you see the problem to store the whole world regardless of what screen resolution you have? It's awful repetition.

[wannannas2]

@gamingfaces but it must have all the atoms stored in some place where they are accessible at high speed so that would be in the RAM so that the engine can pick the ones it needs and display that one on the screen as a pixel, of course I'm no expert in any of this. I'm just a guy wondering around on the internet to learn and combine

[hombacom]

@gamingfaces Yeah and then we can store endless data?? Why do you think latest games easily take DVD-sizes in space? Look at the repetition and alignment in their demo, its pointless with details if its not dynamic.

[AjblueDesign]

@TheHomicidalEagle I'd think it's fair to say 1.5 million pixels or so on a HD screen is a good estimate, you can even bump it up to 2million including calculation overflow and such, a nice number. so 2mil divided by 8 = 250,000 bytes (assuming your 8 atoms per byte) divided by how many bytes are in a mb, you get a little over 4 megabytes. So i think it;s safe to say that even if 1 atom used a minimum of 100bits a piece, you would still have less than 1 gb. The algorithm is the key to the speed

[xTechno2010]

@TheHomicidalEagle The Unlimited Engine uses the sparse voxel octree technology for rendering. meaning that there are no atoms where there is only space. With this technique it should be possible to really shrink memory usage to normal bounds... on top of that, they can unload and reload chunks from the disk. RAM really isn't a problem... However they are in fact hiding the disadvantages of their engine.

[nfish10]

@TheHomicidalEagle this data is compressed. an easy example of how compression works are shortcuts on your computer. you only have to store the data once and you can create references. for examle the trees you see in the video are all the same, just referenced multiple times. of course there are other possibilities to compress data (much more complex ones). the main problem about this system is not the amount of data, it's animation.

[nfish10]

@nfish10 when you do animation in computer graphics, there are two possbilities: you precompute the animation (like the facial animation in l.a. noire) or you compute the animation in real-time (like most of the animation in computer games, e.g. character movement). using polygons, you do that using a skeleton (so, you only move the bones and the polygons attached to them do the same movement).

[nfish10]

@nfish10 but you have to compute the animation for every polygon, you would have to compute it for every atom (voxel) when using the voxel technology. so, if you have 1 billion voxels per player it would cost at minimum 1 billion cpu instructions. so, animation is only possible, if you have very low amounts of voxels OR many objects (with also few voxels) doing the same animation at once. in contrast, computer games are dynamic (e.g particle systems).

[AnalogX64]

@TheHomicidalEagle I would imagine they would compression. So for example if the code is 00000000001111111111 if would be compressed to 10x0 10x1 which describing ten zeros and ten one's in a math statement would take a lot less space than describing all the zeros and tens in their original length. I'm oversimplifying compression it gives you an idea.

[Smashsmashman]

I think i have and idea on how it works, look at it this way data is written on the screen line by line pixel by pixel, so all the detail is measured in each pixel and a normal ipeg picture of lets say 1080p has 2mp how big can that 1 frame be at a instant maybe 1mB or more per frame and they may have a system set up to calculate the need pixel at each instant example a frame and average 15-30 frames is need for a good video.

conclusion what you see is what you get:)

[Guding12]

@TheHomicidalEagle I guess they use nanobytes (Yeah, I know it doesn't exist)

[Zoza15]

You can say whatever you want, they can make a shitload of money with this tech :)

[IJustMadeAComment]

@Zoza15

Not if it doesn't work like it's suppose to.

[Zoza15]

@IJustMadeAComment Then not, but if so?, then they have achieved the impossible..

This Bruce Dell allready said that he rewrote 3d rules in a rather different principle.

A principle thats not based on having a powerfull PC to mesh with this 'Ulimited Detail' thing, But rather a principle that may even run on a 8 years old computer.. Youve seen the Demo :)

[zephroth]

We will be looking at this when we get to rendering on our MMO Acheron Online.

[tylerfeb813]

xbox controller :D



[IsthmusLine]

All the best people are mad...

[Slartibartable]

I am not Australian but does this guy sound as bad to native Australians as he does to everyone else? His accent and inflections are really annoying.

[digitalgenre]

@Slartibartable Native Australians? Aboriginals?

[gamingfaces]

@Slartibartable its a South Africa/Australian accent that's what throws people off.

[InterestingPose]

I want to believe.

[Highlandragon]

haters going to hate, but this will finally bring about the gaming revolution that we NEED, cheaper games that look a million times better

[Sexalize]

CEO's a little.... eccentric.

[Cooler3546]

@Sexalize That's how you know he believes what he is saying.

[DoctorWeeTodd]

@Sexalize Yeah, he's also very smug but not at all snooty sounding, which is a hard feat.

[Shouou]

@gamingfaces Good job on that interview then, very interesting stuff

[ZombieNopali]

bruce dell needs to come in contact with the jacque fresco

[dawidmurray]

@ZombieNopali why? The Venus Project or social philosophy has nothing to do with 3D Game design?

[PhilMorton]

Charlatan. Makes claims that violate computer science, such as O(1) search times and infinity:1 compression ratios. Misinterprets the words of Notch and Carmack. Fails to address the downsides of his technique, and unfairly assesses competing techniques. Completely disregards atomontage, even though they have a world of unique/destructable details instead of a world of repeated/static details.

[Ultimaniacx4]

@PhilMorton Can you please link me a video or something? All I can find from them is a lot of desert.

[Slitheringpeanut]

Impressive! I will keep my eye on this. Just to see what they can do!