Silvio Gesell

[cris750]

The creation of new money or FREE MONEY is not the solution in the long term. The reason is because unemployment and inflation would affect the "new money" years later becuase naturally the businesses within the "new money" circulation would once again hoard or accumulate or save their "new money". Otherwords, the "new money" is a temporary fix and would be tarnished years later and the cycle of economic recession and depression is repeated! The only way to get out of the cycle is to tax the 1%.

[networkeconomy]

@cris750 The issue is about solutions that work now, not solutions that will work sometime in the "long term". There is a disincentive to save or hoard, so many of the problems that would normally occur in a capitalist monetary system would not occur in this market-based monetary system.

[cris750]

@networkeconomy Yes, please read my response to "ishai10". The "new money" should be temporary in a given region until the cycle returns to "recovery".

[pooth27]

The equivalent on a national scale is the Mathematically Perfected Economy proposed by Mike Montagne. This would replace the fraud of allowing banks to print OUR money and then them asking US to pay it back to them (only for the reason that they printed it), WITH interest, is an incredible fraud that we, the people, have supported for a long time.

[networkeconomy]

@pooth27 ....it's gone on too long, but quite clearly is near the end of its lifespan. There are many viable options out there, and congratulations to you, and all of you who have commented for seeing past the myths.

[yukiog]

結果から刺激物削りますので

[D33Lux]

So in other words:

This money *stimulates production* by the means of guaranteeing that who ever holds the money needs to use it or pay a 1% tax if not used in a certain amount of time.

Also how would one be able to afford a home if they couldn't save up for one. With this type of money, would it create abundance to the point where homes would be affordable to availability of affordable labor and materials?

thanks

[RayHoli0]

They found a way to tax wealth.. The very possession of currency. not using it, or earning it.. but actually saving it. Buy a stamp every year (with REAL money) or it's invalid? wow.

Very innovative, and impressive as a 2ndary currency in a crisis.. but since it makes saving impossible, it's worthless for long term currency.

[networkeconomy]

@RayHoli0 You're exactly right, it's purpose in this case and with this design is to function as a short-term currency, up to a few years. However, similar designs have been running continually since that time, for nearly 70 years. That's the WIR economic circle in Switzerland.

[fratze187]

we gotta get rid of the idea of saving money. for instance you culd loan your money to someone who needs it right now. you tell him to get back at you in the same amount. he can use the money imidiatly and you get your money afterwards without srinking.

[fratze187]

@networkeconomy

@networkeconomy

if you if you concidere the current system ill the interest is just a symptome. the probleme is saving money.

people would stil save money in the new currency but with negative interrest. If your needs are covered you wuld save anyway. and the banks, which still will be in competituion for this surplus. they probably would decrease the negative interrest and finally gife positive interrest. so you see its not working like this. not with banks

[sunriseger]

@RayHoli0

saving money now adays is almost equivalent, because our current fiat money looses worth day by day even faster due to the inflationary effect caused by printing money out of thin air like FED does all the time. it wouldnt be impossible to save wörgelers as you´re able to put more in the bank then you have to pay for it but savings are limited to income ^^ all its positive effects on societies would overweight and it can be improved. END THE FED!

[Skypenamenottaken]

@RayHoli0 It doesn't make saving impossible. It just prevent money from being used as savings, which it should not be able to do. Money is a medium of exchange, not a good or commodity that can be saved. Money's value comes through its use, and you can see what happens when people try to use it as a savings - the economy tanks.

[Ranger4564]

How is it a miracle that wages are spent? Real money has limited impact. It is nothing more than printed money, except it was not money you could use anywhere, it lost value only, at 1% per month, never gaining value, it was taxed as income, and it could not be saved for whatever you wanted to do with the savings. This is brilliant if you are the capitalist pig, but if you are the laborer, it sucks big time. It's worse than real debt created currency, because at least the debt was fixed.

[networkeconomy]

@Ranger4564 - Thank you for watching the video and sending your comment, but unfortunately you don't get the currency or what it's purpose is. It's certainly not a tool of capitalism, quite the opposite in fact! It is not a replacement for national currency, it is for a second currency which spreads wealth through rapid circulation. The depression continued because people saved rather than spent, thus this currency encourages spending rather than saving.

[fratze187]

@networkeconomy

yeah exactly so you have to extract bank from ther system or at least think the " new banks diffrent".

you still could bring your money to the bank to avoid the shrinking. the bank, which now can not make money with money anymore would participate you in the shrinking with lets say 0,5 % and loan the money to someone who needs it to avoid shrinking. so you wuld kind of get interest.

[ishai10]

@networkeconomy

THE DEPRESSION SPREAD BECAUSE WORGL CURRENCY, AND SIMILAR VENTURES, WERE ACTIVELY SUPRESSED BY CENTRAL BANKS AND GOVT.

HAD THISNOT BEEN THE CASE, HAD THEY BEEM ALLOWED TO SPREAD, THE GREAT DEPRESSION WOULD SURELY HAVE COME TO A NATURAL END. THE RISE OF NAZISM, WWII, THE HOLOCAUST - ALL MIGHT HAVE BEEN AVERTED, AND A NEW, MORE LIBERATED AND EQUAL SOCIAL ORDER, WOULD HAVE COME TO BE.

[cris750]

@ishai10 YES,yes,yes, I agree 100 % concerning your observation of the past depression which preceded the rise of the nazis!!! However, this change to new currency should be temporary and then disbanded when the economy enters the recovery stage cycle. Remember, we are introducing a MORAL imperative(for the betterment of living beings) into an AMORAL system called economics. In this setting, I agree with networkeconomy for the "temporary" intro for new currency in a geographical area.

[networkeconomy]

@cris750 This may have happened before, when the vast majority of people were still under the illusion that there could be such a recovery under capitalism, which is really just a continual process of rebuilding the illusion that the system is stable. But what if there is no recovery? Then what?

[MillyVanillification]

@Ranger4564 Debt is created by scarecity of money. In order to create debt, one must hold back money from circulating. By doing so, he can force people to borrow money and to pay for it. It's simple as that. Savings and debts are two sides of the same medal.

[Danotto9797]

I don't get this concept at all. Someone please explain to me how this didn't cause inflation and just how the heck it worked...

[sostav]

I have a certificate which I have to get rid of by the end of the week otherwise I'll have to pay extra 2 cents. So, I call you and have you mowing my lawns and pay you with this money certificate, okay? You want to get rid of the certificate too so you look for someone who would do something for you or trade some stuff for this certificate. It's the same like with the regular money - you can exchange it on other goods or services.

[sostav]

The time limit makes you confident that your services or goods will be in high demand, see? These free money is absolutely the same regular money with the only difference - if you keep them more than a certain period of time, you get fined. So, you look for any stuff you could get for these. This system inspires people to DO something because they know for sure they could trade the results of their labour by means of moeny which they surely get for their stuff or services.

[globaldemocrat]

Danotto,

The excess money does not cause inflation because it is absorbed into the expanding economy. I am from Pennsylvania where Ben Franklin issued similar fiat paper money. He wrote that printing money causes inflation, but printing money to build a bridge so workers and goods can cross more quickly the extra money will eventually be needed to fuel the resulting growth on both sides of the bridge ... plus ... even if there is an excess detected some can be destroyed ...

[xyn9movie]

I saw this movie in Japanese(as a part of "Ende's last message").

[schwupsdidups]

please also check the video "monetary growth" by Helmut Creutz. It explains the problem of interest (compound interest) which is one of the main causes for the financial crisis. The video shows how money systems with compound interest are bound to collaps.

[CIPPALA]

the value we give money to us because we accept the money..

Gesell,Auriti,Pound...

[jemjemde]

This kind of money could help California

[motorolarules]

So could decriminalized weed/hemp sold throughout the world legally. In combination the two would be perfect.

[marlonortz100e]

as in Ithaca with "ithaca hours", as in Berkshire with "berkshares". Or as in Germany with Gesell Money: Chiemgauer, and 27 currencies. Print your own money!!!

[stylefighterdks]

This will be the future!!! u are so right!!!

[PozsonyiFarkas]

This will be the future.

[marlonortz100e]

yes!!! but we need to start print our money

[awakenedinseattle]

What a fascinating video!--and what an innovative thinker Silvio Gesell was. I sincerely appreciate your posting this.

These ideas sound like there could be a positive future, even in light of the world's current circumstances.

[ari100teles]

[continues]

Paying demurrage leaves me with 99 dollars to spend at the beginning of the next month. My purchasing power has declined by 1 dollar, the same happens with inflation. If there is 1% inflation I may still have 100 dollars at the beginning of the next month but its purchasing power will be only 99 dollars. My question is what is the difference then between demurrage and inflation? Thanks for your answer in advance :)

[markmuzenhardt]

You are calculating wrong. On inflation with 1% per anno and something that costs 100$, you have to pay 101 $ for it in the first year. In following years you pay: 102,01 $, 103,03 $, 104,06$, 105,10$, ... and so on. After 100 years you had to pay 270,48 $ (!!!). This means, you have to earn 170,48 $ more to buy the same thing as 100 years ago. With Freigeld (demurrage = 1 $ per anno) you would have to add only 100$ after 100 years, no matter that your 100$ Freigeld-Note now is worthless!

[ari100teles]

@networkeconomy: Thanks for your answer! but I still can't get my head around it. Although demurrage doesn't cause money to lose it's value in the end it has the same effect on me as inflation does, doesn't it? It causes my purchasing power decline over time. If I have 100 dollars and demurrage is 1% a month each month I have to give up 1 dollar to keep that money. Paying demurrage leaves me with 99 dollars to spend at the beginning of the next month. [continued]

[networkeconomy]

Comments are moderated. Demurrage does not cause money to lose value. Inflation causes money to lose value. Therefore Gesell's money stays stable. There are different ways of issuing the currency, as a payment to workers on public projects, for example, or as credit, but what makes it special is the demurrage method. You can lend money to existence interest-free.

[ari100teles]

@networkecnomy re @joshfif: what makes the difference? when money loses value does it really matter if it is due to something called "inflation" or "demurrage"? ok, Gessell's money doesn't charge interest but it has nothing to do with money losing value be it due to inflation or demurrage, does it? next question is how is Gessell's money issued? it is not lend into existence as it doesn't charge interest, right?

[markmuzenhardt]

There is one big difference between demurrage and inflation. While demurrage is always linear, inflation is exponential! Ask youselve, why everything becomes more and more expensive in shorter and shorter periods of time! Another point of view is, that there is no way to escape inflation. With demurrage you can stop loosing money by giving credit to someone who needs it! You even didn't have to charge interest, because you would be glad to stop loosing money by demurrage!

[networkeconomy]

No, Joshfif, it is very different than our money. Our money loses value in real terms because of inflation. This money is issued interest-free, and therefore it is inflation free. It may lose value, but not because of inflation.

[joshfif]

just like our money..spend it now or it will lose its value

[r8qt7]

your money will increase in value (because of deflationary tendenzies) - that can't happen in the Freemoney system ...

[lvildos]

the same is a system with gradual and continual reduction of interest rates. You loose value if you hold to the money to long, the more you hold to it, the more you loose, hence you circulate it. No need to patch a faulty system with another currency, just fix it.

[css1971]

Friegeld is largely unnecessary.

The problem we have with inflation & deflation is caused by the Fractional Reserve nature of Banking... It has little to do with savings. Banks create money and debt, cause inflation, the debt causing subsequent deflation.

Simply make Fractional Reserve Banking illegal. Require all banks to hold full (100%) reserves. No inflation, no deflation.

Oh, wait... This is the real world. Bankers and politicians a match made in heaven. What are the chances?

[r8qt7]

Fractional banking is not the problem. the actual money system needs exponential growth which crashes after some decades.

Same is with 'full money' and gold-based money ...

[h2orobot]

Freigeld not Friegeld is until now the only way to secure a steady circulation of money in the economy. Commercial banks can create their own money but they cannot create central bank money. So the saved central bank money flow back into the economy by the regulator interest. But what happened when the the borrowers cannot borrow more or the lender refuse to lend because of low saving interest? Deflation is always on the brisk. by the way, war was always a way to bring the money back...

[henrynold]

gesell shares a lot with "geniuses" ahead of their time, like nikola tesla, viktor schauberger, wilhelm reich, walter russell

(1871 -1963,usa), martinus (1890-1981, denmark). please check them. new "paradigms" we should and will bring into reality in our daily lifes.

[pflo777]

how would you save money for the time when you retire from work in such an economic system

?

[DaVinci85]

through investments in bonds or stocks.

[SeppHasslberger]

Through investment in a piece of land and perhaps some valuables (gold, silver).

[CosmicFork]

Silvio Gesell had a brilliant insight when he saw that a currency system and a social order are deeply interrelated. The currency systems we use are NOT value neutral in their effects on a community. Some currencies reinforce community; while others destroy it. The National Currencies because of the way they are created... foster and promote competition among the participants, while Local Currencies create cooperation among participants. We could live in sustainable abundance, like Lietaer said.

[rittersoftlan]

Thx for this Video. It's so important now that more and people learn about free money and the Succes - Story of Wörgl.(The Miracle Of Wörgl)