Individualism vs group think

[Dirkschneider]

bootme21: I agree with you so much! Can I join your group?

[STIXUP]

Please do not equate mankinds "Religion" and blindly following what the members of a Church dictates with following the tenets of a Bible.

The Christian Bible is a compilation of History and Rules of conduct.

The church and it's symbolisms and rituals are a creation of mankind (whether for good or bad-as in groupthink and control of the masses).

[winstono75]

Unless we discover the unity within first, there can be no real outer unity.

[looking4thepast09]

I can think for myself. I have no need for group.

[steveqwqw]

Good job,

[ToBeFree777]

Good word

[Taketheride23]

Fear is a base emotion of our species. It is hard to move beyond the comfort of what we know. I have found in my own life that moving beyond what I think is comfortable has deeply altered me personally. Most people stray from being individuals because they are afraid to move toward an unknown. Our environment is a key factor for this is how most of us learn. As children we are mostly very curious, creative, and emotional. Critical thinking and creativity is our greatest asset.

[AroundSun]

groups are made up of individuals guy...you need to be able to categorize individuals too

[Hunterkirk]

I disagree that group think is dangerous. Nothing could be done with out acting through a group. The human brain is wire to put things in to groups. It is how we think. One could argue the very act of calling yourself a "Individualist" is putting yourself in to a group. In that case a group who is defined as being focused on self or in to self judgments.

[Hunterkirk]

@Hivento Perhaps.

My central point is any word defining something is in fact a generalization or a grouping. Group think as I see it is simply patterns of thought and the assembly of people with similar patterns of though. Society is built on these patterns of thought and we call it "culture". Moral beliefs likewise are based on patterns of thought.

Group think can be dangers like a drug can be dangerous or helpful. It depends on the degree and effects of the pattern of thought.

[Hunterkirk]

@Hivento "people believing in Hitler makes it moral"

Never said that. I said that patterns of thought can be dangers like any drug can be. Drugs can heal or harm. Thought patterns can heal or harm as well.

All that is a little off topic as the topic as I see it is individualism and if there really ever is such a thing. I question the reality of individualism in the sense that we do group ourselves with others and often with multiple groups.

[Hunterkirk]

Agreed.

[chucksheen]

Watch:

Individualism vs Collectivism

on

YouTube

There are 2 videos I like on the topic.

[Starfirephoenix1]

I don't 'Hate' anything, but if I did..it would be 'Group Think' Intellect is in everyone, buried though it is.. you are here to experience for you...not another.. also bow to no one, but love and respect anyone... dont take a word of what I just said... seriously.. YOU THINK OUT for YOUR SENSE OF SELF the validity of your existance..... without you in this whole limilless ness... without your presence in ALL that is.. There is No -Thin gor un-thing

Group think is MIND CONTROL minority right :)

[911BattleScars01]

You're fuckin spot on dude. Bravo.

[milfrie]

Our Founders understood that democracy is mob rule and established a republic.

We do live in groups.. groups of individuals.. without the individuals there are not groups!

[milfrie]

we are individuals that make up a group and our individual rights are supreme.

I am reading the book by Bastiat called The Law.. very good book on individual rights and why they matter and how to protect them. Written in the 19th centurty.

[BeatBuddy]

As the British author C. P. Snow pointed out, more harm has been done in the name of conformity than all other reasons combined.

[mirandadesigners]

Group thinking is necessary to establish a respectful relationship between individuals that adheres to common moral principles. As a foreigner, I can honestly say that individualism is the root of all the problems the USA is facing at the moment. I can also say that people in collectivistic cultures live happier lives.

[BeatBuddy]

Thanks for your totalitarian "insights, " but it's always been individuals who have moved the world forward and have enriched culture. Collectivist cultures are barren cultures, and rooted in fear.

[mirandadesigners]

Yes, one individual declares war for his own interests and millions of people die. That´s what you call moving forward. Individualism is a primitive concept and the reason behind all the moral, economic, and natural decadence in the world. If we were advanced like the indians in the Amazon, we´d be able to save the world. The smartest man in the world said something similar. Please search "Chris Langan part3"

[BeatBuddy]

I'm nodding my head here. It's sad that you should be so frightened and insecure as to compell everyone to think exactly alike.  The "one individual" who declares war is always backed up by lies that persuade herd mentalities to rally behind him. It's always been INDIVIDUALS who have pierced through these facades.

Your twisted logic would impress the Marquis De Sade.

[mirandadesigners]

Individuals in collectivistic societies are aware that they should strive to protect the group's interests rather than their individual interests. Humanity is the most important social group. Most people do not want war as they know war only causes destruction. However, war exists because of some individuals that only care about themselves and want to be powerful and rich even if millions of people have to die for them to do so.

[mirandadesigners]

I am sorry but I prefer not to argue with people that have an IQ lower than 120. People with an average IQ just can't understand what's good for the world. Search for Chris Langan part3 here on Youtube, he has an IQ of 195. Guess what? He thinks collectivism is the only solution for the world's problems. Individualism is for cavemen, not for intelligent humans.

[BeatBuddy]

High IQs do not automatically translate into wisdom and common sense. History sharply contradicts your thesis. Sieg heil to you too, brother!

[GuyAwoke]

Yep, got to agree there. Individuals with sinister motives have always used collective mentalities and ideas to lead others into the forest. Collectivism and it's political brother populism discourage independent critical analysis and thought. The people who think collectivism is best for the world are the ones who think people are too stupid and need to be led by INDIVIDUALS who use COLLECTIVISM for the implementation of their own particular idea of what they think is best for the people.

[BeatBuddy]

Bingo! In every avenue of life, individualism is indispensible. In my particular area, destroy individualism and watch the demise of the arts.

[milfrie]

what if 90% of a group think you are bad or wrong and decide to destroy you? Collectivism is mob rule as is true democracy. Collectivism is a tool of oppression. The individual matters and you will know that when your well being is at odds with the group.

[stevemcgee99]

We've been 'facing groupthink' most of history.

[astro104]

haven't we been facing groupthink under the bush administration, at least most of it?

[CoverFireHero]

the main problem with group think is people will avoid conflict and avoid disagreeing to get along with the group and we end up doing things like going to war - it also allows the use of mass psychology to trick the entriety of the collective human conscience and project an illussory reality

[mirandadesigners]

war is actually a product of individualism not collectivism. People in collectivistic countries like Brazil, Mexico, etc. rarely if ever go to war. It's only the people in countries with individualistic cultures that go to war like the USA, GERMANY, ENGLAND, etc.

[CoverFireHero]

Those countries are not super powers.

[mirandadesigners]

They're super powers in a more advanced way. I just can't call the USA a super power due to its lack of a real democratic system, it's racism, war loving culture, etc. Same goes for germany and england. I would definitely call venezuela a humanitarian super power for their contributions to humanity in terms of peace mediation, solid democratic practices, and humanitarian commitment. Not to mention they currently have the most ethical and democratic president the world has ever known.

[milfrie]

How long have you spent in America? Are you a useful idiot?

[mirandadesigners]

Yes, I´m a useful idiot like most Americans are. We´re leaders in that respect. The whole world laughs at us because we´re so stupid to think we´re advanced while we´re actually a primitive society.

[mirandadesigners]

They are humanitarian super powers since they help build a better world while all the so called "super powers" actually destroy the world and its inhabitants.

[milfrie]

really? what about collectivist regimes that kill thier own? Cambodia, Russia, Germany, China? What are you talking about? What about Korea? Do you think N. Korea wouldn't go to war if it could? Look over the course of history, not just the last 100 years. What about Islamic expansion and Communist expansion?

[wheatpuff]

You can't spend your whole life in one mode for every situation. I think a sense of individuality is contributory to living and working in groups. otoh, too much individualism and you have no cooperation, which is necessary for human survival.

[DarthCheney420]

I think individualism is an honorable concept. The ability to think for yourself shows great integrity, and intelligence, especially in the society we live in today. With 300 million people in the U.S. and growing, true individualism becomes more difficult to achieve.

[kanganakulu]

Hi Darth, read ur comment on individualism..U R RIGHT...I happen to be from India and know how suffocating it gets without individualism....Every other crook here claims to work for "the people"...U just wont understand how it is...I plan to immigrate to USA..alas that too is heading the wrong way..with the Urban people getting "liberal" and the conservatives being successfully demonized as "rednecks " and "neo-cons"..NO point whining..confrontation is the key..Long live McCarthy..

[zombieiscool]

yeah, i can totally relate. good work

[captcaveman4201]

i think money is going BYE BYE.

[bootme21]

in cash form. they want it to all be digital.

[captcaveman4201]

all forms

[natritious1]

@bootme21 yes but even that is fiat. Physical gold and silver is the way of the future, maby digital for the lowly serfs

[theband]

I think individualism is a problem, we follow rules of socialization, where family, friends, and people influence of behavoir, they establish hiddens rules that everyone follows. If everyone became an individual, then there would be no sense of family, or community, everyone would follow darwinism, whoever cannot cope will be left behind. eh thats what i think for this moment in time.

[utubehayter]

That is a misconception. Individualism is power to the individual - not isolation of the individual or denouncing responsibilities. Would you give up your family and friends if you became more powerful tomorrow or would you help them more if you can? Simple isn't it?

[kimxxxyyy]

I think you are 100% correct! 2 evolve to a higher state of consciousness 2 achieve knowledge not of past or groups but in the now as we are in the past to realize this Illusion is time, in order to get out of the past one must first realize there never was a past, groups hold us back!

[oolceeoo]

"He who is unable to live in society, or who has no need because he is sufficient for himself, must be either a beast or a god." Take your pick which you'd like to be :)

[nyomythus]

Good points. So many people simply follow the template of what is conservative, liberal, socialist, libertarian, as these terms are applied to political congener. Being an individual can be a threat to the "true believers" ... most people don't want to think for themselves.

[jkarhu]

Individuals are a threat to an authoritarian society.

[ChoDilly]

This gay is a nut! He's a zombie! He's a Islamofascist! He's a terrorist....

The corporate media

[ncpoliticosrock]

Profound. I'm an individual myself, and it's so hard to explain to people where I'm coming from, especially in the Bible belt. There really are no words that can come from me to express how I feel, and I know you do not need them. But thank you.

[onlyacrisiscanchange]

your right, its the perception that there is a strength in number

[zezt]

Yes I agree very much! Say a group 'decides' that your lifestyle is wrong. What should you do, deny our essential being--if it harms noone that is. Say you Gay. and rest of group is not. Well then you are suddenly alone. you either follow group-think or be yourself. that's just one powerful example

[tekanemo]

Watts said that seeing ourselves as "isolated" egos inside a bag of skin is the illusion.

Group thinking is not the same as the collective consciousness. Collective consciousness is being vastly more attuned to your interconnectivity to the rest of creation. The seed of it begins with inner self-awareness. You are more truly like a drop of water within an ocean of creation.

[bootme21]

I really like Alan Watts. My point is that one must find truth in himself.

I am an individual, but I am part of a larger consciousness. We are an extension of the Universe.

This is so, but that is no reason to be part of a man-made group idea. I am sure you understand. Understanding will come when realizing that man is more than his "ego"

[mikelunz]

@bootme21 I tend to disagree with with the sociological perspective of collective consciousness as well as the spiritual theory. Not to say that I think negatively about those who adhere to this ideology, however as I see it, each individual is made up of unique ingredients that allow them to develop different talents, and ways to make the world better; but rather then being part of a larger "spirit" or "conscious," we are individual spirits whom serve unique purpose along side of each other.

[rafter23bingo]

what about academic groups? we wouldn't have progressed as far as we have in music, math, science, and philosophy. i think some groups are good :)

plus we wouldnt have led zeppelin if it werent for groups

[krissy4nik]

music,art, and the sciences come from individual ideas just because people express their ideas collectively doesnt make them any less individual ...you example of led zeppelin page may contribute one idea and plant another and they make music out of that individuality ... you picked a bad example of group think with zepp because they were at each others throats all the time

[rajenkajun]

right on man. i think groups are simply a part of social culture, its ridiculous how many are blind to the true natures of their own perceptions. being self sustaining, and individualistic makes breaking out of social norms much easier, since the views of the individual are self created and assessed.

[KristySweets]

WTF flew behind your head? I think you are correct. Group thinking is destructive. I believe security holds people back from individualism. Security of money and power, I believe, are the most dangerous.