--Muslims pray 5 times a day, So at any given time AROUND the Globe, someone is worshipping God. How perfectly is that setup? A human made this religion?
--Muslims fast 30 days and it goes by the MOON, so it differs each year (NO FOOD OR WATER from sunrise to sunset, whether in WINTER or SUMMER) (Islam originated in the middle east where it is 100degs. Why would a MAN prevent himself from eating? What does he gain?
@mx399 people all over the world of very religion are praying at all hours of the day. christians dont need to pray at a specific time of day. there are christians that pray as much as 300X a day. there a monks and nons that devote days to prayer, fasting, vows of silence. so islam isnt special. simply because some muslims pray 5x a day.
You also asked why would anyone prevent themselves from eating.
the answer is simple. its the same reason why ancient mayans would kill children to keep their angry gods happy. its the same reason why Jehovah Witnesses would avoid getting LIFE SAVING blood transfusions and bone marrow transplants. its why tribal Vanuatu Land Divers will bungee jump to almost certain death or injury to bless their crops.
YOU ARE ALL INSANE PEOPLE WILLING TO PUT SUPERSTITION ABOVE YOUR OWN LIFE AND WELLBEING
MX399, you think that islam is some how unique or special based on the behavior of muslims and islamic rituals. The reality is, there are people out who do things that are even more insane and stupid than you. praying 5x a day or starving yourself for 30 days out of the year is nothing compared to what MANY OTHER people are willing to do for their god. there are christians that reinact Jesus' death by crusifying themselves to crosses. there are christians who handle deadly poisonous snakes
why chanting and praying. There are budhist with will devote several hours, if not days to creating beautiful and intricate"sand paintings" only to destroy their hard work immediately after. there are christians who will become living organ donors to strangers and give up a kidney for someone they dont even know. people are willing to waste time and practically kill themselves and others to keep an imaginary entity happy and thats a bad thing.
@QueeeeNoftheHonEBZ hahaha.. of course other religions do it. of course they do. Keep telling yourself that. Islam MANDATES things. 2 BILLION people and counting do this as a requirement. When we use the bathroom, we WASH ourselves unlike you and your mom. The Quran is PRESERVED today how it was 1400 years ago. It is entirely POETIC. What holy book today is poetic and preserved in the same form? What holy book talks about scientific facts? You got it coming my man...
@mx399 I tried to write a comment to you to but realized its going to be very very long. So I will just send you a PM to explain why your entire comment is just 1 Big fallacy fest.
why dont u just worship the devil than? since ure understandin of god is just wat the media and athiest have programmed u with.. just another twat without a workin brain cell to think for yourself
Hold on a minuite onlykhancan...Answer the man. How can we reconcile these two opposites.
Jesus loves us but.....piss him off and you will burn in agony forever in the hellfire he prepared for us since the beginning of time...... Can't get my fucking head around that one...
Because you have to accept Jesus. IE stop thinking with those braincells @onlykhancan mentioned, and get the Bible (Christian propaganda) programed into you. Makes sense now? I didn't think so.
Also, the Devil is just as fucking retarded as the concept of god(s) and God.
Typical answers from fundies in this debate. After watching the video they are invariably forced to skip through all the mystical crap about an all loving all merciful god and admit their true relationship with their god: unconditional submission. The old " if you create something that later disobeys your initial parameters wouldn't you discard yourself of it?" argument. And "if you chose spare some aspects of your creation then you're loving and merciful because you could have chosen not to "
(cont.) so then their god becomes only "partially" "all loving and all forgiving". And after that, when you convince them that's not true either then the only stance that's left for them to maintain is that MIGHT MAKES RIGHT.
@penkallli You have to wonder why such a violent reaction to the book the Satanic verses. If it held no truth people would laugh it off, ex: there are many books published trying to disprove Jesus even calling him a fake ,and not a single reaction from us Christians because we know the truth. Heres the reaction from Muslims-
U said u have evidence from quran and bukhari of satanic verses, dont change the subject, bring the evidence ! I ll give more time before I embarrass u
The Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini's call to kill Rushdie was not an empty threat. Many Muslims consider his work to be blasphemous and violence has followed The Satanic Verses throughout the world. In August of 1989 Mustafa Mahmoud Mazeh was killed in a failed attempt on Rushdie's life.
Attempts were also made on the lives of three of the novel's international translators including the Japanese translator Hitoshi Igarashi, who was killed by an assasin in 1991.
Now, two decades after authoring The Satanic Verses forced him into hiding Salman Rushdie, now Sir Salman Rushdie after being knighted by the Queen of England in 2007, is speaking out about what it has meant to live with the constant threat of death.
@penkallli AHH denial the main calling card of muslims- oh well-
First of all, the story is transmitted by the four early biographers of Muhammad's life: Ibn Ishaq, Wakidi, Ibn Sa'd, and Tabari. Ibn Sa'd did use Wakidi's material, but he also was a scholar in his own right and did a great deal of research. Didn't he write a 15 volume work on the early Muslims?
cont- Ibn Sa'd was much more than just a mere copyist. Tabari used Ibn Ishaq's material as well as Wakidi's, and others. But Tabari did not simply write anything he came across. He too was more than a mere copyist. Tabari was also one of the greatest scholars of Islam. He wrote a 39 volume history mostly related to Islam, as well as a thorough Commentary (Tafsir) on the Quran. Obviously Tabari thought that the story had enough merit to be included in his writings.
@penkallli Proof? here you go Dumb Dumb-no wonder Muslims have to deny this- Thats what they do best- "deny"- deny the crucifixion ,deny the deity of Christ, deny Mohammad was a mass murdering, thieving ,looting, lying, cheating ,dog hating ,camel piss drinking, adopted son wife stealing, caravan raiding,torturing, child screwing pedophile sex pervert false prophet that spoke the words of satan-
This event is documented by the four early biographical writers of Muhammad's life: Ibn Ishaq, Wakidi, Ibn Sa'd, and Tabari. The Hadith and Quran also contain direct references. Additionally several other Islamic scholars on Hadith (traditions) support the event's occurrence.
One Islamic book on Muhammad's life provides the following list:
Ibn Ishak, Tabari r historians who include everything they heard,
Ibn Wakidi = very very weak source surprised u mention him,
The evidence that destroys ur argument is ur saying evidence ´´WILL BE´´ provided from quran and buhari, PLEASE show us these evidence, before I embarrass u further
@penkallli You never embarrassed me to begin with nor will you in the future-All that I posted on Mohammads mass murders,slave owning,tortures ,pedophilia, wife beating and all the rest is just a mouse click away. Goolge any of it and sit back and read in amazement as the ugly truth unfolds on this very evil man.
Well bring the proof u promised from the quran and bukhari, paste that here, u promied, lets see how u disprove Islam ! produce the evidence from quran and bukhari of so called satanic verses
Additionally, there is corroborative material in both the Sahih Hadith and Quran supporting the story. Therefore, no facts are being distorted. These men were reputable Islamic scholars. They rank among the greatest in Islamic History. To say that the story is true based upon what they wrote is no distortion.There is nothing in the Quran or Hadith contradicting the story.
"... many of the traditionalists have recorded it with reference to the chains of its narrators. Among them more commonly known are: al-Tabari, Ibn Abi Hatim, Ibn al-Mundhir, Ibn Mardauyah, Ibn Ishaq, Musa ibn 'Uqba, and Abu Ma'shar. It is all the more strange that Ibn Hajar, a recognized authority on traditions insists on the truth of this report and says, "As we have mentioned above, three of its chains of narrators satisfy the conditions requisite for an authentic report." [2]
I have found four of the early Islamic biographical sources for this story in English. Therefore, prior to a discussion and analysis of the event, their writings should be reviewed. What first follows are the four accounts related from the 4 early sources:
1) Tabari's "History", published by SUNY, and translated by Watt [3],
2) the "Kitab al-Tabaqat al-Kabir", (The Book of the Major Classes), translated by S. Moinul Haq [4],
3) the "Sirat Rasulallah" (The Life of Allah's Prophet) by Ibn Ishaq, translated by A. Guillaume [5],
4) Wakidi's biographical material on Muhammad also includes the story of Muhammad speaking Satan's words. I have not been able to find Wakidi's entire work in English but Wakidi's work is quoted by W. Muir in "The Life of Mahomet" [6].
5) A sub source from #3 above is found in "New Light on the Life of Muhammad", by A.. Guillaume [7].
@penkallli The qurans from God? Mohammad denied the crucifixion of Christ- It just doesn't get more satanic than that-
One of the most embarrassing events in Muhammad's life occurred when Satan put his words in Muhammad's mouth. Muhammad spoke Satan's words as the word of God. This event is documented by several early Muslim scholars and referenced in the Hadith and Quran. Later Muslims, ashamed that their self declared prophet spoke Satan's words, denied the event occurred.
Mohammad denied the crucifixion of Christ- It just doesn't get more satanic than that = excuse me, I was speaking to atheists, the author of the vid is atheist not christian
´documented by several early Muslim scholars and referenced in the Hadith and Quran´ = false its not mentioned in quran and the hadith untrue, the story isnt supported by internal as well as external evidence and early muslim scholars have rejected the fictitous story, go read then come to us to debate dum dum
cont- This source is from a manuscript containing information from other sources as well as Ibn Ishaq. The writer of the manuscript, Yunus ibn Bukayr, heard Ibn Ishaq's lectures at Kufa (located in modern Iraq), and made notes.
6) Additional supporting evidence will be provided from the Sahih Hadith of Bukhari [8].
7) Finally, verses from the Quran will be provided as concurring evidence that Muhammad spoke the Quranic verses [9]
Part 2 it just proves that people of that time and region had trouble believing in the bible because it was written over a long period of time by many different people. muhammad solved this problem by saying "i am the prophet of allah, he told me to write all of this down in one lifetime so that way you know it will be more accurate" most of the stuff you say about islam is also true of mormonism. Joseph smith reportedly found gold plates where an angel told him they would be...cont
God is the most vile, unpleasant character in all of fiction...Even the worst human dictators show more mercy and have less flaws then him....He doesn't have the right to judge me until he's explained himself properly.
Ur arguments are silly, not comprising of other attributes of Allah,
The mercy of God is that he created man in the first place, the rules are set by God not by man,
The islamic concept of the world is that of imperfect and a place to test us wether we do what were asked, were not created to simply live in this life and die,
so Ur arguments lack the islamic understanding of life and Gods attributes
The Islamic understanding of life is that your god tortures people forever. His arguments lack that perspective, indeed, because it's fucking preposterous. What a horrible thing it must be to believe in such a cruel god.
@kufr72 He does the same trich here again like in his other vids, same broad generalizations mixing with some arabic terms giving the illusion hes checked all his info;
AS far as ur logic is concerned u lack info yes, its for eternity but its not exactly like this life in here, thats in the quran if he or u had read it...
You haven't actually said that either of us are wrong, though. I mean, supposed I remain an infidel till the day I day, which is extremely likely. Do you believe that your god is going to torture me for eternity or not? It's a simple and important question.
Yes, it depends wether u denounced Islam with the arguments presented by muslims, if a person is misguided because he heard about islam from people like this and lies on islam then that remains ultimately to God, in hadith and scholars have mentioned test in the hereafter;
Minority of scholars have said hell is not eternal, but the majority and Im convinced say its eternal, as far our ratio can grasp it
His vid doesnt make sense cause hes leaving out other names and attributes of God thus arguing a strawman, Allah in islam is also: The Subduer,The All-knowing; The Constricter-The One who constricts the sustenance by His wisdom and expands and widens it with His Generosity and Mercy; The Abaser, The One who lowers whoever He willed by His Destruction and raises whoever He willed; Al-Muthil
The Dishonorer, The Humiliator, He gives esteem to whoever He willed;
The Aware- The One who knows the truth of things; The Firm One; The Reckoner;
-So he leaves the attribute of God to punish and speaks only of his mercy and tries to make it a contradiction when he punishes people, thats why ask muslims before listening to these people
Well, then I'm left in the position that your god, like Tom here, is a total dick. Sorry, but there's no positive way to describe an individual who would behave in such a fashion, whether human or divine. So sad that some believe the entire universe was set up by a creature that rejoices in eternal torment. Sick.
The problem is that u think that God is human, another mistake the vid makes is liking God to humans, we muslims arent anthropomorphists, dont blame me or the quran, the vid sucks, God tells u the rules of the "game", u dont like it its ok, but to try and make tricks here by making the illusion of contradiction is just dishonest, the vid is actually satire, I would base knowledge on this
by ur and his argument why would God create death, viruses, sickness and what not, all this is emotional arguments, why u DONT LIKE something, but doesnt mean its irrational, u do good u get reward u do bad u get punished, this is the basic concept
As long as you're not going to pretend that your god is moral, I guess we don't have anything to disagree about, other than its existence. But I think we know where that will get us.
Again, I can only express my sorrow that you believe the creator of such grandeur is so cruel.
No, I don't think god is human--I don't think god exists at all. I'm pointing out that you ascribe behavior to your god that would be appallingly immoral if any human did it. I suppose I would expect any actual ruler of the universe to be more moral than humans, not less.
Without discussing deities, do you believe that Tom in the video is loving, compassionate and merciful?
If God exists than its his prerogative to create the rules, by ur logic creating us to die, grow old, get sick, get killed is also immoral, but the immoral part is subjective argument again ur using emotional argument, with freedom to choose theres responsibilty, in Islam God created humans to worship him, not to eat, sex etc. So if u dont do that punishment awaits u, thats the rule, u may disagree with it;
Tom in this vid didnt create the cat hes torturing, while God has. so theanalogy is false
Ok, let's examine the moral nature of dealing with something you created:
Tom creates a robot that can, to all outward appearances, feel pain, feel pleasure, or be destroyed (the last case is obviously real, the first two are at least really good simulations).
Tom lets his robot wander around for a bit, letting it (seem to) feel pleasure and pain here and there. But then Tom decides to make a permanent choice about the robot's state (cont'd).
1. Dont talk filthy with me Im muslim and dont curse;
2. Again u forget other variables...God created humans TO WORSHIP HIM, not just to live,
"then tom decides" - God said what going to happen, he told u he warned u;
"He should have fixed it." - thats not the fact, the universe, the world, is created for a test for humans to worship god and do good->its imperfect by default, God tests u with good and bad things, thats the test,
-God created us as capable of doing bad-sin, so that we can repent, u cant know good without bad or bad without good;
-Test is for us, in the day of judgement our lives r going to be analyzed and angels guardians are going to bare witness-so that we dont say why going to hell if we arent given a chance;
I talked about the principle reason why he created us-his worship, sex and other are joys of this life, depends how we use them lawfully or bad-its all a test;
That is their reward, Hell, because they rejected Faith, and took My Signs and My Messengers by way of jest
29.68
And who does more wrong than he who invents a lie against Allah or rejects the Truth when it reaches him? Is there not a home in Hell for those who reject Faith?
29.2
Do men think that they will be left alone on saying, "We believe", and that they will not be tested? - there r many verses that explain how and who and why people are punish
@penkallli ther r many verses and hadith talking on this, but cant quotethem, I just touch on them, God has created hell and heaven thers no in between, U might not like it, thats natural, no1 likes hell; but thats his prerogative, he created this and told us, rejection of faith is when it reaches u, and u reject it, some1 who hasnt heard of it is not a rejector; punishment can be in this world by bad happening to u, or in the grave, or in day of judgement, or just by looking at hell
..or just by GOd questioning u, or sending u to hell for some time then go to heaven and so on, but matter is for those who have rejected God or commited paganism, in quran it says that God forgives everything except taking up partners to God in worship; Thats why we shouldnt waste our lives and look for the truth, but we shouldnt be stuch with emotional arguments, we dont like many things in this life, but doesnt mean its not REAL, this subject is so wast dont know to where to begin..
part 2 the next big question that theists like to tiptoe around is this. WHY DO YOU BELIEVE IN GLOBAL FLOODS, TALKING SNAKES, VIRGIN BIRTHS, AND JEWS TURNING INTO PIGS WITHOUT ANY EVIDENCE OTHER THAN AN OLD DUSTY BOOK THAT JUST SAYS IT'S TRUE? Surah 2:111...Bring your proof (of what ye state) if ye are truthful. The q'uran by itself isn't proof of anything. Its like saying harry potter books are proof of Orcs. If you want me to believe in orcs you must first bring me an orc.
so god made us bad so that we can turn good? why didn't he just make us good in the first place? Y not simply not create the bad so no one has to worry about it? he is all powerful isn't he? now answer the question you ignored that ALL theists ignore when i ask them. WHY DOES GOD MAKE IT FEEL SO GOOD TO SIN? you also ignored this question. HOW COULD YOU LOVE SOMEONE WHO COULD PLAY GAMES LIKE THAT WITH SOMEONES ETERNAL FATE? Christians and muslims both ignore both of those questions. WHY? cont,
I answered, because we have free choice, if it was taken u wouldnt have cried out, now that u have it u again cry out;
I brought u rational proof
God by default lays the rules, he created u to worship him, and sin, of course sin is good, if there was no sex we wouldnt be here; but sex like other things can be used for bad or good its very simple
Be sure we shall test you with something of fear and hunger, some loss in goods or lives or the fruits (of your toil), but give glad tidings to those who patiently persevere
-I bring the quran as evidence because it explains ur questions; God tests u with good things and bad things,
On why ther evil ? Evil and bad exist now its real we can touch it; floods death etc. we dont like it, so what ?! Do u understand, its here its real, ur stuck on why its a matter decreed and cant be changed
Ur logic is why God created death, He answers u dont like it, therefore God doesnt exist,
I dont like the law of gravity, o my, so ?! the rules are layed down, u can accept them or not, its up to u, but dont say we dont provide answers we do, actually ! in the end we all r going to die, some of us younger some older, and well all see for ourselfs
part3 God never told me why he created death, there are some ancient books that guess, but no proof any of them are true, And i never CONCLUDED that god doesn't exist per se. I am agnostic. I believe in what we can test and measure. the difference between gravity and "gods ways" is that we can measure gravity's effect on the physical world. Can anyone make a machine that measures how much god loves someone or that tells someones doom level? No, because god is just in our imaginations
Ur confusing scientific and rational arguments, scientific method meaning it can be looked through science, rational method is logical or rational conclusions made based on premises; ex.How can u prove u had a grand-grand-grand.. father scientifically ? u dont know him, dont have DNA, etc. by rational method u can derive at the conclusion that u had grand...father;
AS far the argument of not knowing what ancient book is true or not, read some, read commentary and so on
i don't understand what you mean when you say i "cried out". sin is good you say? then why does god send us to hell for sinning? why doesn't he just make sex feel good when you are doing it with your wives? that surrah doesn't prove the q'uran is correct or that allah is real, it just offers up an explaination for why everyone suffers no matter how good or bad they are. You have to prove that there is an Allah before you can convince me he is punishing, testing, or judging me. cont...
part 2. If god offers us a choice to worship and obey him or not and then punishes us eternally when we chose not to, then its not really free choice, its extortion. I am gathering that you believe that since god is all powerful anything he says pretty much goes without question. It doesn't matter if he wants to be kind and merciful or jelous and vengeful, no matter what he does it is considered just because he has the power and he said it is just. So worship or else! is that about right?
proving the existence of God is another argument, some of the things that god made forbidden-sin, are desirable, of course, wine, women, gambling etc. As I said, its all part of the plan; the problem u have comprehending is eternity, and this is for all not just u, eternity is unknown to us its an idea, we cant imagine it, the idea of punishment and reward for what we do is rational, where many have the problem is the eternity which is metaphysical and we dont have precedence for it in nature
The other argument i brought is, God decides what he wants to do, and he ALREADY creates us under these rules, namely good and bad things happen, they do exist in reality; so its not irrational argument at all to say God decides what he wants to to, whats accepted or not, its irrational however to say God doenst exist because I dont like how things are or will be..cause again, bad things already exist, this world already exists
just because the idea of punishment and rewards seem rational to you doesn't mean their true. for the 3rd time all these things you say about god don't amount to jack squat without some evidence based in physical reality. on a personal level, please, why do YOU believe in the q'uran? and i don't reject god because i don't like his rules, i reject him because there is no proof of his existence. which is good because if any 1 of the desert gods turned out to be real i don't think i could love him
The test in this world is to believe without seeing him, if u see than thats not belief, but there are signs;
Now we came to the argument why we believe in the quran-The name Quran-recital is in the quran itself, it identifies itself as revealed in arabic, it identifies itself as word of Allah-god, its identifies the path its calls to-islam-submission to God; it identifies Islam as the only accepted religion, it mentions jews christians and their mistakes-all these are unlike other scriptures
ex. the word bible isnt in the bible, word judaism or christianity isnt in the bible; the authorship of the quran isnt in dispute nonbelievers say its by Muhamed believers say its by God; quran is memorized by heart by millions, so we have 2 chains scribed and memorized chains of narrations reaching to the prophet; prophet Muhamed was know even prior to Islam as the trustworthy; quran offers a way to disprove it - to offer contradiction in it; quran is the basic of arabic grammar and literature
Quran provides challenge to imitate its style and text-literal form to the whole world; quran isnt prose or poetry it created its own form, it has very rich in rhetorical literal features; it provides rational thinking as a way to God, not just because I say its true; all arabic grammar is based and derives from the quran; arab poets at the time of prophet Muhamed couldnt match it, Muhamed wasnt known for poetry; sign in the quran from historical, scientific perspective-ex.
mentioning city of Iram, lost city and all records of it lost, recenlty discovered in writing in Syria; distinction between calling in the time of prophet Joseph-king or pharaoh, the quran calls the ruler king, cause they called themselves kings; scientific ex. Hevean-universe expanding-which is discovered now, just to mention greeks thought universe was static and eternal; in a saying of prophet Muhamed its said:land of arabs was full of water and green and it will be so in the fufure..etc
This is so vast that I forget to mention, quran isnt in chronological order, like the bible from start to finish like men would write, its been revealed during 23 years, the first words are in the last part of the quran, and all fits, also prophet Muhamed was illiterate , etc. in a nutshell we have what to show to the world and argue that indeed quran is unique and its from God
interesting stuff you got here, but the fact thqat it is not in chronological order doesn't prove anything. if i handed a report into my teacher in no chron order i would not be recognized as a prophet i would be recognized as a dunce. that stuff about the universe expanding?that kind of stuff is in the bible too in isaiah 40:22 it says the earth is a circle and the heavens are stretching out. once again because the word q'uran being in the q'uran doesn't prove that muhammad wrote it...cont.
part3 then he took the plates home and translated them to a freind with the seer stones that came with the plates. He had someone writing down his revelations because god said that only Joseph was allowed to look at the plates at that time and he couldn't write the revelations himself because he was illiterate. after it was written god allowed josephs witnesses to see the plates, (they wrote the testimony of 3 witnesses). shortly thereafter joseph smith was martyred for what he believed.cont
part4 so joseph smith was illiterate(like muhammad). yet he made a new holy book that was just more of the same but with a few different rules, in a different order and in a better more modern writing style(like the q'uran)his freinds saw the plates, and afterwards he was killed for his beliefs. now that you have heard this if you decide not to believe in it, and its true, when you die you will burn in hell forever. all this being said WHY ARE YOU NOT A MORMON YET? cont...
part5. the test is for us to believe without seeing him. so god values naivity over ethics? there's two people who both give to the poor, don't steal, only have sex with their wives, eat kosher, observes the day of rest, etc. the only difference is one is gullible enough to unquestioningly believe the religion of his region & time, and is lucky enough be right about it. the gullible one is the one god loves and the other one gets to roast for all eternity? How can you describe that as just?
For those who havent heard of Islam or faith in 1 God, God will judge accordingly; Its all on the individual the general rule is that the one to who comes Islam with arguments and rejects it he will be punished;
How can u compare Joseph Smith and Muhamed is beyond me ?! Most influental book by Michale Hart but Muhamed in 1 place; this is just to say who he was from historical point of view;
I provided u a glimpse of what Quran is, just recall the fact its the basis of arabic grammar !!
If Tom picks 3, he's a sick fucker who would probably do the same thing to a cat. And if he didn't like the way the robot acted, you know what? He should have fixed it.
Tom's a dick. Q.E.D.
(Anybody else getting the impression that penkalli's god is like Sid from Toy Story?)
I agree. The funny thing is they pretend that ALLAH was not one of the 360 pagan idols in the Kaaba in mecca. Allah was a stone idol of the moon god. This tribe of Arabs worshiped the moon and stars. What is on the minarets of a mosque? Crescent moon. What is on islamic flags, GUNS and Crescent moons and a star. I think if Allah is not Satan it is just a false god, a figure head of satan and alter ego of Mohammad, who was self professed crazy.
lol if you believe in god and satan you're probably right... stan only killed 5 guys in the bible the thousands of others killed in genocide are all killed by the order of god.... satan has to do something if he wants to keep up xD
Of course, it still -could- be true that a torturous, vengeful god really -does- run the world, and our behavior in his world really does determine our fate in an afterlife.
The problem, Atheist with no understanding of God or Christianity try to explain it, they can't. This is not what God promises. There are consequences for Sin. In life they are apparent, man is his own devil. After LIFE NO ONE KNOWS. You take it by faith. If you don't beleive in God, rejoice you will become worm food. Your life was an accident, fluke of the universe with no meaning, now worm food to fertilize crops; a cow will eat the crop and shit you out. Sad. I'll go with Jesus and salvation.
Prove MOST ATHEIST are ex-believers. That is CRAP out your ass. EX-believers of WHAT? Christianity? Jews who become secular just don't give a shit and NEVER call their self something stupid like ATHEIST. Ex-Muslims often become Christians or secular. ATHEIST ARE ATHEIST. EVEN so called EX-theist have NO CLUE what they are talking about.
LAZY? I read the Bible. I read the Quran. I have two masters degree's, YOU. Shut up!
UW (Washington State) M.S. Physics and Mathematics, '91, which I earned while working full time at Boeing Space and Defense. My masters thesis was on strength and heat transfer in composite materials for high speed aerospace vehicles. My masters in mathematics was a non-Thesis programs, although my Physics thesis developed numerical methods, which could be a thesis unto itself.
no it very true ,,, how can islam justifie changing the storys of the bible ? no where in the bible written at the time solomon walked does any work talk of a flying carpet ,,, but its in the koran written 2400 years after solomon ,,, does nt that seam strange ?
What the hell difference does it make? Its just swapping one lie for another.
The only thing I find strange is that any people would take the writings of uneducated, bronze age people and assume they are anything more than the confused ideas and interpretations of life reflecting the culture and knowledge of the time. How any rational person can think they represent truth is beyond me.
@kaga13 TRUE! BUT People who call their self atheist are ANTI-Religion, specifically Anti-Christ. 90% are pissed at Jesus, yet give Islam a pass, which fuels Terrorism. Why? Bigotry, intolerance and hate of Christian's belief. NOT COOL! You don't believe? FINE! Live your Godless heathen life & SHUT UP! No one cares, but rudeness, intentional lying & hurting people, telling them they're stupid for believing in God is WRONG. WHO THE HELL R U! Expect a reaction or punch in the nose. I'M CRAZY! LOL!
for the record 'christian' beliefs are actually western beliefs that were adopted by christianity not the other way around; I give NO religion a pass and I hate terrorism in all its forms and millions of atheists are generous kind honest and moral people (I'm not an atheist btw) as much as I admire christianity's works of selfless charity it IS stupid to take any holy text as literal word, THAT is what causes terrorism
Your ignorance is offense. You know NOTHING of Christianity, history, humanities, philosophy, science. You're opinionated & ignorant.
There you go again CALLING PEOPLE STUPID. You never read it & don't understand the BIBLE. Your comment shows you are IGNORANT which leads to BIGOTRY. Scholars in history, philosophy, anthropology, theology that study the Bible at all the Worlds great Universities PRAISE the Bible for its wisdom, morals and historical accuracy. HOW DARE YOU!
Oh and I have read the bible many times, first in my early teens when I was training to become a Roman Catholic Priest. Why do you think I became an atheist in the first place. I could never worship a psychopathic Murdering bastard like the God portrayed in the Bible!
If you use that book to derive your Moral base you must be psychotic too!
Why would you need somebody else to tell you what's right and what's wrong? Are you stupid? Oh yes.. I was forgetting!
You Atheist cliche, attacking Christianity w/ LIES & twisted deception. You give islam a 100% pass. Threaten to KILL ME, DEATH TO AMERICA, plot attacks, carry attacks out against my nation, my Family, religion, culture or me, than I'm going to PERSECUTE YOU w/ EXTREME prejudice. American atheist demanded equal time to a Christmas tree & Jewish Menorah at the Illinois state Capital, with a hateful placard to piss people off. Typical ass holes. Time to tell Atheist FUCK OFF!
you said "You Atheist cliche, attacking Christianity w/ LIES & twisted deception. You give islam a 100% pass.Threaten to KILL ME, DEATH TO AMERICA, plot attacks, carry attacks out against my nation, my Family, religion, culture or me,"
WTF? When did I do any of this. None of that is true.
You are just making stuff up now you Lying Stupid Moron!
Did I make up stuff about you? No.. I could have called you a paedophile and child killer, but I didn't.
You're a self proclaimed Atheist. You identify yourself with a Religion, a hateful intolerant Faith of THERE'S NO GOD, Anti-Christianity & stands for nothing but self.
Not much of a stretch to go from hateful angry verbal attacks of Christian Faith to KILLING. I talked to 100's of atheist. Every one spews the BELIEF SYSTEM. Christians are inferior (Islam say this in the quran). Christians must submit to superior Atheist ideology (Islam says the same thing). You're both SATANIC
The BIBLE is perfect? No, if you want to put a number on it, 97.5% error free. The good part about the 2.5% error, God gave us so much info way back 3 or 4 milleniums to verify, discern what's not correct. We KNOW the errors because we have the ability to do textural criticism and LOOK at all the info from ORIGINAL manuscripts to scholarly fields of history, anthropology, linguistics, sociology and on and on. IT ALL FITS! Historically it's reliable document. Nuff said.
You know NOTHING of the Bible. The OLD TESTAMENT DAYS ARE OVER IDIOT. Get over it. You would have known we are New Testament people, if you had theological training. FRAUD!
"Moral base you must be psychotic"
Great leaders in history, even secular scholars say the Bible has the greatest system of morals & wisdom mankind has. Youtube troll disagrees. HA HA! Sum total of your arguments, call me stupid and lie about Christianity.
You say you're an Atheist. I know what you beleive, your RELIGION. When I say I beleive in Jesus Christ you make assumptions, some may be correct, that I know Jesus Christ is God manifested in the flesh and the Bible is the inspired Holy Word of God, God's message to us. Not every word, punctuation mark is pure perfection because man touched it. However God promised we'd have his message. READ IT
What does Ahteism stand for? TELL me what Atheism is to you (NOT the dictonary)
the bible is not the literal word of any god and it is NOT historically accurate; or do you actually believe that the earth is 6000 years old, that adam was over literally 900 years old when he died or noah lived to be 600 years old? do you think the earth is a flat disk with a glass dome with water all around it? millions of christian scientist know the bible isn't an accurate historical document, are you smarter than they are?
NO WHERE DOES the Bible say earth is 6000 yrs? NO WHERE! LOOK. Earth is older than 6k yrs, but I grave doubts about 4.5 BILLION. Radio Dating uses assumptions, one big one that's taken on FAITH. I have a masters in Physics. Carbon dating is good for 500k yrs at most, also has some big problems; it assumes atmosphere and cosmic radiation have been constant, BIG assumptions. You HAVE to make assumptions to fill in unknowns and give boundary conditions. It's science not God.
PHD'S in physics say you are wrong and the only way to change the liftetime of elements is by destroying their internal structure in particle accelerators, science has nothing to do with atheism or religion, and even if those scientists believe in god (I do) it by no means whatsoever has to beh the christian's specific version of god, and science has pretty good ideas about where the universe came from
Atheist does not lead to enlightenment and scientific discovers.
Atheism has NOTHING to do with science.
Science does not PROVE or Disprove God.
Science has no F'ing clue where the Universe came from, how earth really happened so perfect for life and how first life POOFED into existence from inanimate matter all by it self.
VERY intelligent, HIGHLY educated people in Science, Medicine and all Scholarly pursuits believe in God.
You CLEARLY have issues with the BIBLE THAT YOU NEVER READ..... I mean DUDE how STUPID IS THAT. You never read it, studied it as a mature intelligent adult. May be you went to Sunday school once. Grow up for the Love of God.... Jesus Christ is REAL. Deal with it. I know you rebelling against God, may be your are Gay? I don't know but stop spewing ahteist propaganda. Atheist is a FAITH of being Anti-Religion (hate, intolerance) by hypocritical illogical people with personal issues.
you are a freakin child, your best insult is to call me gay? I went to catholic school for 12 years, now deism makes more sense to me, and atheism is NOT a 'faith', I think jesus was a real guy walking around preaching love regardless of race 2000 years ago, son/avator of god I'm not so sure anymore
NO WHERE DOES THE BIBLE SAY FLAT. It says earth is ROUND or Circular or Disk shape. The Word for Globe or more accurately "oblate spheroid" did not exist. IF THAT IS ALL IT TAKES FOR YOU TO DENY GOD... OK fine I don't care but stop twisting lies to deceive people.
Who are these MILLIONS of Christian Scientist? You are good at making unsupported or reference claims. The BIBLE if you knew it, you would know uses parables some times, stories to illustrate. Google:
Atheist claim Bill Gates or Albert Eisenstein are devout fanatical Atheist? BULL. Their thoughts on God, Spirituality are complex. Fair to classify them as Agnostics but DEFINITELY not Atheist. King Atheist Dawkins? He discovered/Invented? "My goal is to distroy religion" That's science?
Show me where the Bible is inaccurate? Please, I beg you. I dare you. If you say it, you should back it up right. You are after all talking about peoples Personal deeply held spiritual faith. What if you are wrong? ARE YOU THAT ARROGANT? You're a false witness and spewing lies. Does that even matter to you? Lying is justified by the means? If I correct you than you should stop saying crap right? Can you EVEN BE HONEST, or are you such a intolerant, bigot, hater you can't help it?
Since pretty much every culture in the world is infected with one or more religious delusion which affects the majority of people, its a pretty safe bet that the majority of atheists are ex believers. But you were to busy to make that analysis weren't you.
We have been labelled as Atheists, but since that label accurately describes our non belief in a god or gods then it fits well.
I would label you as a lazy, self opinionated, no nothing, lying, hypocrite.
I know Atheist. People who call their self atheist are ANTI-Religion, specifically Anti-Christ. 90% are pissed at Jesus, yet give Islam a pass, which fuels Terrorism. Why? Bigotry, intolerance and hate of Christian's belief. NOT COOL! You don't believe? FINE! Live your Godless heathen life & SHUT UP! No one cares, but rudeness, intentional lying & hurting people, telling them they're stupid for believing in God is WRONG. WHO THE HELL R U! Expect a reaction or a punch in the nose.
I am anti religion because it creates division amongst people where there should be none. This eventually leads to violence and death ("Expect a reaction or a punch in the nose. ") It also instils many other unrealistic and odd ideas in believers. Ideas like sin. Normal things like thinking, sex, homosexuality etc. become wrong and instil guilt into believers. This leads to metal disorders from depression to psychosis.
Its also run by psychotic Atheists who use it to control people like you.
WRONG. People would create division WITH OUT religion. In fact historically Religion has been a great moderating force in humanity. Youre confused mostly with 1400 yr history of ISLAM, the JIHAD that started inn 622 and still goes on. That is the problem, but islam is a cult that is ANTI other religions, openly and per their quran. IT SAYS KILL to make all religion only for islam. Don't be a pussy, focus, Christians, Jews, Hindu and Buddist are not flying planes into buidlings.
you said "but rudeness, intentional lying & hurting people, telling them they're stupid for believing in God is WRONG."
I do not lie. That would be the religious people. I am only rude in response to rudeness or lies.
There are only two reasons I can see that a person would have to preach a religion. One is because they are making money from it. The other is because they are stupid.
YOU ALREADY LIED SAYING RELIGION IS THE ROOT PROBLEMS. BULL! People, SIN is the problem. If we ALL followed Christianity, Peace, Forgiveness, Equality, Redemption, Salvation there wouldn't be a problem. You don't know ANY religion much less Jesus Christ. How can you speak, you're ignorant.
Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao and yes HITLER (who was as anti-Christ as they come) are histories BIGGEST mass murderers. I'm not preaching or making money. I do it to save people from your stupidity.
I see you read history books that are filled with lies then. They obviously don't include the Crusades, the vast amount of wars in Europe over Catholic, protestant,Islamic and other beliefs. The Spanish inquisition, the on going problems in Northern Ireland, The bombing of Abortion clinics and murder of Abortion doctors, The Palestinian Israeli conflict and so on.
Hitler was a Roman Catholic. Stalin and Pol Pot were first and foremost communist.
@believerornot OH GOD CRUSADES. Let me school. 638AD Muslims in constant violent imperialist expansion conquered Jerusalem (founded by Jews 1300BC). The MUSLIMS Jihad Murdered all the Jewish/Christian leaders, destroyed great Churches & for 460 yrs raped, looted, forced conversions on pilgrims or crucified DEAD. It was enough, 1095 Crusades were in responce. Church later appogized, renounced the Crusades; Fighting for land is against the teachings of Jesus Christ. EVER HEAR A MUSLIM APPOLGIZE?
MORE PEOPLE WHERE KILLED ON 9/11 THAN 360 YRS OF THE SPANISH INQUISITIONS.
Historians agknowledge medieval times were violent, plagues, Wars, Muslims Jihad invasion into Spain, killing LOTS OF PEOPLE. Spanish Inquisition saved lives, as a moderating force. People agnolog it was harsh and wrong. So? We're in Afghanistan killing evil today. GOOD! SELF DEFENSE.
Northern Ireland sectarian issues ended 12 yrs ago. Muslims Sunni & Shiite are MURDERING EACH OTHER NOW & 1000 yrs.
"MORE PEOPLE WHERE KILLED ON 9/11 THAN 360 YRS OF THE SPANISH INQUISITIONS."thanks for proving my point... Its all down to religion. False morality causing division where there should be none so that a few people at the top can get their kicks. Only The stupid fall for it.
NO ONE APPROVES THE SPANISH INQUISITION ASS HOLE. Sorry, Now GET OVER IT. Take your head out your ass BOY. Islamic terrorism (Jihad) started 1400 yrs ago. Since 1972, the Jihad terror engine started again marked by the Munich Olympic massacre and has been FULL THROTTLE since 9/11, over 14,400 attacks since, MILLIONS killed in ISLAMIC TERROR ATTACKS. WHO GIVES A FUCK about Spaniards 400 YRS AGO? Typical atheist ass hole defending ISLAM EVIL by attacking Christianity. UNBELIEVABLE!
you say: "The last real IRA violence ended in 1997"
RIRA have launched fifteen attacks in the last six months.
Two pizza delivery workers, one from Poland, were also gunned down. In the eyes of the RIRA they are "legitimate targets"
Over the past few years, dissident republican groups have stepped up their campaign of targeting Police of Northern Ireland and armyl. Last month a 300 lb car bomb in Castlewellan, Co Down.
You are not Irish, you are American and full of shit!
You are Stupid! Screw you kid. I have two masters degrees and your a punk.
Hitler WAS NOT A ROMAN CATHOLIC. He renounce Catholicism. Fact! Ge said Jesus was NOT GOD, because he was a JEW, in Mein Kampf. Fact, Hitler LOVED Darwin, so he helped natural selection by killing Jews and Germans. He practiced eugenics killing "useless eaters", old/sick/handicapped and sterilized others!
Yes atheism leads to what, Dictators and communists, because it is Anti-God.
There have been way way way more psycho murdering Christian Kings, Queens and dictators as well as others of different religions than atheist dictators. You are so selective with facts.
Don't have time to get in a pissing match about your prejdice. Dictators come in all flavors, MOST are Atheist; biggest mass murderers, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao, Hitler were NO CHRISTIANS. Hitler was ANTI CHRIST. Only idiots think dropping the Word God makes you w/ God. Satan decives. Hitler RENOUNCED Jesus spacifically as a Jew, therefore not God; how non-Christian can you be.
POINT, IF YOU FOLLOW THE BIBLE you wouldn't be a murdering dictator. Atheist HAVE NO RULES, MAN FIRST.
it looks like you didn't pay attention in history. Hitler was a practicing catholic, and stalin and zedong belonged to Militaristic Communism, which is almost like a religion in of itself. But the fact is, that's not even important, they were all fucking crazy MADMEN.
Allah is one evil bastard
Sturmpionier03 1 year ago
epic!!!!
tictactoechicken123 1 year ago
QUICK FACTS that NO MAN made this religion:
--Muslims pray 5 times a day, So at any given time AROUND the Globe, someone is worshipping God. How perfectly is that setup? A human made this religion?
--Muslims fast 30 days and it goes by the MOON, so it differs each year (NO FOOD OR WATER from sunrise to sunset, whether in WINTER or SUMMER) (Islam originated in the middle east where it is 100degs. Why would a MAN prevent himself from eating? What does he gain?
mx399 1 year ago
@mx399 people all over the world of very religion are praying at all hours of the day. christians dont need to pray at a specific time of day. there are christians that pray as much as 300X a day. there a monks and nons that devote days to prayer, fasting, vows of silence. so islam isnt special. simply because some muslims pray 5x a day.
QueeeeNoftheHonEBZ 1 year ago
You also asked why would anyone prevent themselves from eating.
the answer is simple. its the same reason why ancient mayans would kill children to keep their angry gods happy. its the same reason why Jehovah Witnesses would avoid getting LIFE SAVING blood transfusions and bone marrow transplants. its why tribal Vanuatu Land Divers will bungee jump to almost certain death or injury to bless their crops.
YOU ARE ALL INSANE PEOPLE WILLING TO PUT SUPERSTITION ABOVE YOUR OWN LIFE AND WELLBEING
QueeeeNoftheHonEBZ 1 year ago
MX399, you think that islam is some how unique or special based on the behavior of muslims and islamic rituals. The reality is, there are people out who do things that are even more insane and stupid than you. praying 5x a day or starving yourself for 30 days out of the year is nothing compared to what MANY OTHER people are willing to do for their god. there are christians that reinact Jesus' death by crusifying themselves to crosses. there are christians who handle deadly poisonous snakes
QueeeeNoftheHonEBZ 1 year ago
why chanting and praying. There are budhist with will devote several hours, if not days to creating beautiful and intricate"sand paintings" only to destroy their hard work immediately after. there are christians who will become living organ donors to strangers and give up a kidney for someone they dont even know. people are willing to waste time and practically kill themselves and others to keep an imaginary entity happy and thats a bad thing.
QueeeeNoftheHonEBZ 1 year ago
@QueeeeNoftheHonEBZ hahaha.. of course other religions do it. of course they do. Keep telling yourself that. Islam MANDATES things. 2 BILLION people and counting do this as a requirement. When we use the bathroom, we WASH ourselves unlike you and your mom. The Quran is PRESERVED today how it was 1400 years ago. It is entirely POETIC. What holy book today is poetic and preserved in the same form? What holy book talks about scientific facts? You got it coming my man...
mx399 1 year ago
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QueeeeNoftheHonEBZ 1 year ago
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QueeeeNoftheHonEBZ 1 year ago
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QueeeeNoftheHonEBZ 1 year ago
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QueeeeNoftheHonEBZ 1 year ago
@mx399 I tried to write a comment to you to but realized its going to be very very long. So I will just send you a PM to explain why your entire comment is just 1 Big fallacy fest.
QueeeeNoftheHonEBZ 1 year ago
@mx399 The pyramids are pretty nice too, those are manmade, and they eat at night.
tictactoechicken123 1 year ago
A brilliant piece of video !!!
theworldvideos1 1 year ago
why dont u just worship the devil than? since ure understandin of god is just wat the media and athiest have programmed u with.. just another twat without a workin brain cell to think for yourself
onlykhancan 1 year ago
Hold on a minuite onlykhancan...Answer the man. How can we reconcile these two opposites.
Jesus loves us but.....piss him off and you will burn in agony forever in the hellfire he prepared for us since the beginning of time...... Can't get my fucking head around that one...
Irishfreethinker 1 year ago
Because you have to accept Jesus. IE stop thinking with those braincells @onlykhancan mentioned, and get the Bible (Christian propaganda) programed into you. Makes sense now? I didn't think so.
Also, the Devil is just as fucking retarded as the concept of god(s) and God.
taliesinknol 1 year ago
ask ure granny n u'll know da truth
onlykhancan 1 year ago
no no no... dats ure dad
onlykhancan 1 year ago
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سنريهم أياتنا في أفاق وفي أنفسهم حتى يتبين لهم الحق.
1kotoz 1 year ago
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يريدون أن يطفئوا نور الله بأفواههم ويأبى الله إلا أن يتم نوره ولو كره الكافرون
1kotoz 1 year ago
i love kittens
agoule01 1 year ago
So basically what your saying is we either accept god's infinate love, forgiveness and compassion or burn in hell for ever well that makes sense !!!!
torturedgenius314 2 years ago
@torturedgenius314 I hope that's sarcasm
Abbodine1 1 year ago
asshole
AvaAvaBoBava 2 years ago
Typical answers from fundies in this debate. After watching the video they are invariably forced to skip through all the mystical crap about an all loving all merciful god and admit their true relationship with their god: unconditional submission. The old " if you create something that later disobeys your initial parameters wouldn't you discard yourself of it?" argument. And "if you chose spare some aspects of your creation then you're loving and merciful because you could have chosen not to "
slackeriii 2 years ago 4
(cont.) so then their god becomes only "partially" "all loving and all forgiving". And after that, when you convince them that's not true either then the only stance that's left for them to maintain is that MIGHT MAKES RIGHT.
Happens all the time. It's sad, actually...
slackeriii 2 years ago 3
@penkallli You have to wonder why such a violent reaction to the book the Satanic verses. If it held no truth people would laugh it off, ex: there are many books published trying to disprove Jesus even calling him a fake ,and not a single reaction from us Christians because we know the truth. Heres the reaction from Muslims-
aperisions 2 years ago
U said u have evidence from quran and bukhari of satanic verses, dont change the subject, bring the evidence ! I ll give more time before I embarrass u
penkallli 2 years ago
cont-
The Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini's call to kill Rushdie was not an empty threat. Many Muslims consider his work to be blasphemous and violence has followed The Satanic Verses throughout the world. In August of 1989 Mustafa Mahmoud Mazeh was killed in a failed attempt on Rushdie's life.
aperisions 2 years ago
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cont-
Attempts were also made on the lives of three of the novel's international translators including the Japanese translator Hitoshi Igarashi, who was killed by an assasin in 1991.
Now, two decades after authoring The Satanic Verses forced him into hiding Salman Rushdie, now Sir Salman Rushdie after being knighted by the Queen of England in 2007, is speaking out about what it has meant to live with the constant threat of death.
Truth always evokes the most violent reaction!
aperisions 2 years ago
@penkallli AHH denial the main calling card of muslims- oh well-
First of all, the story is transmitted by the four early biographers of Muhammad's life: Ibn Ishaq, Wakidi, Ibn Sa'd, and Tabari. Ibn Sa'd did use Wakidi's material, but he also was a scholar in his own right and did a great deal of research. Didn't he write a 15 volume work on the early Muslims?
aperisions 2 years ago
cont- Ibn Sa'd was much more than just a mere copyist. Tabari used Ibn Ishaq's material as well as Wakidi's, and others. But Tabari did not simply write anything he came across. He too was more than a mere copyist. Tabari was also one of the greatest scholars of Islam. He wrote a 39 volume history mostly related to Islam, as well as a thorough Commentary (Tafsir) on the Quran. Obviously Tabari thought that the story had enough merit to be included in his writings.
aperisions 2 years ago
@penkallli Proof? here you go Dumb Dumb-no wonder Muslims have to deny this- Thats what they do best- "deny"- deny the crucifixion ,deny the deity of Christ, deny Mohammad was a mass murdering, thieving ,looting, lying, cheating ,dog hating ,camel piss drinking, adopted son wife stealing, caravan raiding,torturing, child screwing pedophile sex pervert false prophet that spoke the words of satan-
aperisions 2 years ago
cont-
This event is documented by the four early biographical writers of Muhammad's life: Ibn Ishaq, Wakidi, Ibn Sa'd, and Tabari. The Hadith and Quran also contain direct references. Additionally several other Islamic scholars on Hadith (traditions) support the event's occurrence.
One Islamic book on Muhammad's life provides the following list:
aperisions 2 years ago
O poor christian, who believes
god commited suicide for u;
Ibn Ishak, Tabari r historians who include everything they heard,
Ibn Wakidi = very very weak source surprised u mention him,
The evidence that destroys ur argument is ur saying evidence ´´WILL BE´´ provided from quran and buhari, PLEASE show us these evidence, before I embarrass u further
penkallli 2 years ago
@penkallli You never embarrassed me to begin with nor will you in the future-All that I posted on Mohammads mass murders,slave owning,tortures ,pedophilia, wife beating and all the rest is just a mouse click away. Goolge any of it and sit back and read in amazement as the ugly truth unfolds on this very evil man.
aperisions 2 years ago
Well bring the proof u promised from the quran and bukhari, paste that here, u promied, lets see how u disprove Islam ! produce the evidence from quran and bukhari of so called satanic verses
penkallli 2 years ago
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aperisions 2 years ago
@aperisions I quote '6) Additional supporting evidence will be provided from the Sahih Hadith of Bukhari [8].
7) Finally, verses from the Quran will be provided as concurring evidence that Muhammad spoke the Quranic verses`
SO PROVIDE UR EVIDENCE, the other evidence is bogus from historians with bogus, ahadith
penkallli 2 years ago
cont-
Additionally, there is corroborative material in both the Sahih Hadith and Quran supporting the story. Therefore, no facts are being distorted. These men were reputable Islamic scholars. They rank among the greatest in Islamic History. To say that the story is true based upon what they wrote is no distortion.There is nothing in the Quran or Hadith contradicting the story.
aperisions 2 years ago
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aperisions 2 years ago
cont-
"... many of the traditionalists have recorded it with reference to the chains of its narrators. Among them more commonly known are: al-Tabari, Ibn Abi Hatim, Ibn al-Mundhir, Ibn Mardauyah, Ibn Ishaq, Musa ibn 'Uqba, and Abu Ma'shar. It is all the more strange that Ibn Hajar, a recognized authority on traditions insists on the truth of this report and says, "As we have mentioned above, three of its chains of narrators satisfy the conditions requisite for an authentic report." [2]
aperisions 2 years ago
cont-
I have found four of the early Islamic biographical sources for this story in English. Therefore, prior to a discussion and analysis of the event, their writings should be reviewed. What first follows are the four accounts related from the 4 early sources:
1) Tabari's "History", published by SUNY, and translated by Watt [3],
2) the "Kitab al-Tabaqat al-Kabir", (The Book of the Major Classes), translated by S. Moinul Haq [4],
aperisions 2 years ago
cont-
3) the "Sirat Rasulallah" (The Life of Allah's Prophet) by Ibn Ishaq, translated by A. Guillaume [5],
4) Wakidi's biographical material on Muhammad also includes the story of Muhammad speaking Satan's words. I have not been able to find Wakidi's entire work in English but Wakidi's work is quoted by W. Muir in "The Life of Mahomet" [6].
5) A sub source from #3 above is found in "New Light on the Life of Muhammad", by A.. Guillaume [7].
aperisions 2 years ago
@penkallli The qurans from God? Mohammad denied the crucifixion of Christ- It just doesn't get more satanic than that-
One of the most embarrassing events in Muhammad's life occurred when Satan put his words in Muhammad's mouth. Muhammad spoke Satan's words as the word of God. This event is documented by several early Muslim scholars and referenced in the Hadith and Quran. Later Muslims, ashamed that their self declared prophet spoke Satan's words, denied the event occurred.
aperisions 2 years ago
Mohammad denied the crucifixion of Christ- It just doesn't get more satanic than that = excuse me, I was speaking to atheists, the author of the vid is atheist not christian
´documented by several early Muslim scholars and referenced in the Hadith and Quran´ = false its not mentioned in quran and the hadith untrue, the story isnt supported by internal as well as external evidence and early muslim scholars have rejected the fictitous story, go read then come to us to debate dum dum
penkallli 2 years ago
aperisions
@johnnythesailorman Your right, good words-thanks
= R u christian thanking an atheist just cause hes against islam ! Yet Again christian hipocrisy exposed
penkallli 2 years ago
cont- This source is from a manuscript containing information from other sources as well as Ibn Ishaq. The writer of the manuscript, Yunus ibn Bukayr, heard Ibn Ishaq's lectures at Kufa (located in modern Iraq), and made notes.
6) Additional supporting evidence will be provided from the Sahih Hadith of Bukhari [8].
7) Finally, verses from the Quran will be provided as concurring evidence that Muhammad spoke the Quranic verses [9]
aperisions 2 years ago
Hahaha, I mean r u joking or what ?!
Where does the quran say sperm comes from ribs ?!
Quran is the basis for arabic grammar and literature, think very carefully wether u like to proceed to try ur luck against the quran
penkallli 2 years ago
Part 2 it just proves that people of that time and region had trouble believing in the bible because it was written over a long period of time by many different people. muhammad solved this problem by saying "i am the prophet of allah, he told me to write all of this down in one lifetime so that way you know it will be more accurate" most of the stuff you say about islam is also true of mormonism. Joseph smith reportedly found gold plates where an angel told him they would be...cont
johnnythesailorman 2 years ago
Fantastic. Don't forget that Tom could also change all the bad kittens into good kittens with the merest gesture, but chooses not to.
Tom, as I keep telling people to no avail, is a dick.
kufr72 2 years ago
Great video
aurayon 2 years ago
God is the most vile, unpleasant character in all of fiction...Even the worst human dictators show more mercy and have less flaws then him....He doesn't have the right to judge me until he's explained himself properly.
rogan71 2 years ago 3
Ur arguments are silly, not comprising of other attributes of Allah,
The mercy of God is that he created man in the first place, the rules are set by God not by man,
The islamic concept of the world is that of imperfect and a place to test us wether we do what were asked, were not created to simply live in this life and die,
so Ur arguments lack the islamic understanding of life and Gods attributes
penkallli 2 years ago
The Islamic understanding of life is that your god tortures people forever. His arguments lack that perspective, indeed, because it's fucking preposterous. What a horrible thing it must be to believe in such a cruel god.
kufr72 2 years ago
@kufr72 He does the same trich here again like in his other vids, same broad generalizations mixing with some arabic terms giving the illusion hes checked all his info;
AS far as ur logic is concerned u lack info yes, its for eternity but its not exactly like this life in here, thats in the quran if he or u had read it...
penkallli 2 years ago
You haven't actually said that either of us are wrong, though. I mean, supposed I remain an infidel till the day I day, which is extremely likely. Do you believe that your god is going to torture me for eternity or not? It's a simple and important question.
kufr72 2 years ago
Yes, it depends wether u denounced Islam with the arguments presented by muslims, if a person is misguided because he heard about islam from people like this and lies on islam then that remains ultimately to God, in hadith and scholars have mentioned test in the hereafter;
Minority of scholars have said hell is not eternal, but the majority and Im convinced say its eternal, as far our ratio can grasp it
penkallli 2 years ago
His vid doesnt make sense cause hes leaving out other names and attributes of God thus arguing a strawman, Allah in islam is also: The Subduer,The All-knowing; The Constricter-The One who constricts the sustenance by His wisdom and expands and widens it with His Generosity and Mercy; The Abaser, The One who lowers whoever He willed by His Destruction and raises whoever He willed; Al-Muthil
The Dishonorer, The Humiliator, He gives esteem to whoever He willed;
penkallli 2 years ago
The Aware- The One who knows the truth of things; The Firm One; The Reckoner;
-So he leaves the attribute of God to punish and speaks only of his mercy and tries to make it a contradiction when he punishes people, thats why ask muslims before listening to these people
penkallli 2 years ago
Well, then I'm left in the position that your god, like Tom here, is a total dick. Sorry, but there's no positive way to describe an individual who would behave in such a fashion, whether human or divine. So sad that some believe the entire universe was set up by a creature that rejoices in eternal torment. Sick.
kufr72 2 years ago
The problem is that u think that God is human, another mistake the vid makes is liking God to humans, we muslims arent anthropomorphists, dont blame me or the quran, the vid sucks, God tells u the rules of the "game", u dont like it its ok, but to try and make tricks here by making the illusion of contradiction is just dishonest, the vid is actually satire, I would base knowledge on this
penkallli 2 years ago
by ur and his argument why would God create death, viruses, sickness and what not, all this is emotional arguments, why u DONT LIKE something, but doesnt mean its irrational, u do good u get reward u do bad u get punished, this is the basic concept
penkallli 2 years ago
As long as you're not going to pretend that your god is moral, I guess we don't have anything to disagree about, other than its existence. But I think we know where that will get us.
Again, I can only express my sorrow that you believe the creator of such grandeur is so cruel.
kufr72 2 years ago
No, I don't think god is human--I don't think god exists at all. I'm pointing out that you ascribe behavior to your god that would be appallingly immoral if any human did it. I suppose I would expect any actual ruler of the universe to be more moral than humans, not less.
Without discussing deities, do you believe that Tom in the video is loving, compassionate and merciful?
kufr72 2 years ago
If God exists than its his prerogative to create the rules, by ur logic creating us to die, grow old, get sick, get killed is also immoral, but the immoral part is subjective argument again ur using emotional argument, with freedom to choose theres responsibilty, in Islam God created humans to worship him, not to eat, sex etc. So if u dont do that punishment awaits u, thats the rule, u may disagree with it;
Tom in this vid didnt create the cat hes torturing, while God has. so theanalogy is false
penkallli 2 years ago
Ok, let's examine the moral nature of dealing with something you created:
Tom creates a robot that can, to all outward appearances, feel pain, feel pleasure, or be destroyed (the last case is obviously real, the first two are at least really good simulations).
Tom lets his robot wander around for a bit, letting it (seem to) feel pleasure and pain here and there. But then Tom decides to make a permanent choice about the robot's state (cont'd).
kufr72 2 years ago
1. Dont talk filthy with me Im muslim and dont curse;
2. Again u forget other variables...God created humans TO WORSHIP HIM, not just to live,
"then tom decides" - God said what going to happen, he told u he warned u;
"He should have fixed it." - thats not the fact, the universe, the world, is created for a test for humans to worship god and do good->its imperfect by default, God tests u with good and bad things, thats the test,
Again ur analogy failed cause u havent read Quran
penkallli 2 years ago
Dont argue without knowledge, thats my advice
penkallli 2 years ago
Oh, and sound advice it is. All the best. Sorry your god's a dick.
kufr72 2 years ago
If god created us to worship him why did he give us the option not to worship him? Why did he make the option of disobeying him so pleasurable?
If god knows everything why does he have to "test" us?
if god created us not to eat or have sex why do we need to do both of them to survive as a species?
How can you LOVE someone who plays "faith games" with someones eternal soul like that?
It's like you worship the killer from the movie SAW. except god punishes people FOREVER just 4 not believing.
johnnythesailorman 2 years ago
@johnnythesailorman
-God created us as capable of doing bad-sin, so that we can repent, u cant know good without bad or bad without good;
-Test is for us, in the day of judgement our lives r going to be analyzed and angels guardians are going to bare witness-so that we dont say why going to hell if we arent given a chance;
I talked about the principle reason why he created us-his worship, sex and other are joys of this life, depends how we use them lawfully or bad-its all a test;
penkallli 2 years ago
@penkallli Now for the punishment:
18.106
That is their reward, Hell, because they rejected Faith, and took My Signs and My Messengers by way of jest
29.68
And who does more wrong than he who invents a lie against Allah or rejects the Truth when it reaches him? Is there not a home in Hell for those who reject Faith?
29.2
Do men think that they will be left alone on saying, "We believe", and that they will not be tested? - there r many verses that explain how and who and why people are punish
penkallli 2 years ago
@penkallli ther r many verses and hadith talking on this, but cant quotethem, I just touch on them, God has created hell and heaven thers no in between, U might not like it, thats natural, no1 likes hell; but thats his prerogative, he created this and told us, rejection of faith is when it reaches u, and u reject it, some1 who hasnt heard of it is not a rejector; punishment can be in this world by bad happening to u, or in the grave, or in day of judgement, or just by looking at hell
penkallli 2 years ago
..or just by GOd questioning u, or sending u to hell for some time then go to heaven and so on, but matter is for those who have rejected God or commited paganism, in quran it says that God forgives everything except taking up partners to God in worship; Thats why we shouldnt waste our lives and look for the truth, but we shouldnt be stuch with emotional arguments, we dont like many things in this life, but doesnt mean its not REAL, this subject is so wast dont know to where to begin..
penkallli 2 years ago
part 2 the next big question that theists like to tiptoe around is this. WHY DO YOU BELIEVE IN GLOBAL FLOODS, TALKING SNAKES, VIRGIN BIRTHS, AND JEWS TURNING INTO PIGS WITHOUT ANY EVIDENCE OTHER THAN AN OLD DUSTY BOOK THAT JUST SAYS IT'S TRUE? Surah 2:111...Bring your proof (of what ye state) if ye are truthful. The q'uran by itself isn't proof of anything. Its like saying harry potter books are proof of Orcs. If you want me to believe in orcs you must first bring me an orc.
johnnythesailorman 2 years ago
so god made us bad so that we can turn good? why didn't he just make us good in the first place? Y not simply not create the bad so no one has to worry about it? he is all powerful isn't he? now answer the question you ignored that ALL theists ignore when i ask them. WHY DOES GOD MAKE IT FEEL SO GOOD TO SIN? you also ignored this question. HOW COULD YOU LOVE SOMEONE WHO COULD PLAY GAMES LIKE THAT WITH SOMEONES ETERNAL FATE? Christians and muslims both ignore both of those questions. WHY? cont,
johnnythesailorman 2 years ago
I answered, because we have free choice, if it was taken u wouldnt have cried out, now that u have it u again cry out;
I brought u rational proof
God by default lays the rules, he created u to worship him, and sin, of course sin is good, if there was no sex we wouldnt be here; but sex like other things can be used for bad or good its very simple
penkallli 2 years ago
2.155
Be sure we shall test you with something of fear and hunger, some loss in goods or lives or the fruits (of your toil), but give glad tidings to those who patiently persevere
-I bring the quran as evidence because it explains ur questions; God tests u with good things and bad things,
On why ther evil ? Evil and bad exist now its real we can touch it; floods death etc. we dont like it, so what ?! Do u understand, its here its real, ur stuck on why its a matter decreed and cant be changed
penkallli 2 years ago
Ur logic is why God created death, He answers u dont like it, therefore God doesnt exist,
I dont like the law of gravity, o my, so ?! the rules are layed down, u can accept them or not, its up to u, but dont say we dont provide answers we do, actually ! in the end we all r going to die, some of us younger some older, and well all see for ourselfs
penkallli 2 years ago
part3 God never told me why he created death, there are some ancient books that guess, but no proof any of them are true, And i never CONCLUDED that god doesn't exist per se. I am agnostic. I believe in what we can test and measure. the difference between gravity and "gods ways" is that we can measure gravity's effect on the physical world. Can anyone make a machine that measures how much god loves someone or that tells someones doom level? No, because god is just in our imaginations
johnnythesailorman 2 years ago
Ur confusing scientific and rational arguments, scientific method meaning it can be looked through science, rational method is logical or rational conclusions made based on premises; ex.How can u prove u had a grand-grand-grand.. father scientifically ? u dont know him, dont have DNA, etc. by rational method u can derive at the conclusion that u had grand...father;
AS far the argument of not knowing what ancient book is true or not, read some, read commentary and so on
penkallli 2 years ago
i don't understand what you mean when you say i "cried out". sin is good you say? then why does god send us to hell for sinning? why doesn't he just make sex feel good when you are doing it with your wives? that surrah doesn't prove the q'uran is correct or that allah is real, it just offers up an explaination for why everyone suffers no matter how good or bad they are. You have to prove that there is an Allah before you can convince me he is punishing, testing, or judging me. cont...
johnnythesailorman 2 years ago
part 2. If god offers us a choice to worship and obey him or not and then punishes us eternally when we chose not to, then its not really free choice, its extortion. I am gathering that you believe that since god is all powerful anything he says pretty much goes without question. It doesn't matter if he wants to be kind and merciful or jelous and vengeful, no matter what he does it is considered just because he has the power and he said it is just. So worship or else! is that about right?
johnnythesailorman 2 years ago
proving the existence of God is another argument, some of the things that god made forbidden-sin, are desirable, of course, wine, women, gambling etc. As I said, its all part of the plan; the problem u have comprehending is eternity, and this is for all not just u, eternity is unknown to us its an idea, we cant imagine it, the idea of punishment and reward for what we do is rational, where many have the problem is the eternity which is metaphysical and we dont have precedence for it in nature
penkallli 2 years ago
The other argument i brought is, God decides what he wants to do, and he ALREADY creates us under these rules, namely good and bad things happen, they do exist in reality; so its not irrational argument at all to say God decides what he wants to to, whats accepted or not, its irrational however to say God doenst exist because I dont like how things are or will be..cause again, bad things already exist, this world already exists
penkallli 2 years ago
just because the idea of punishment and rewards seem rational to you doesn't mean their true. for the 3rd time all these things you say about god don't amount to jack squat without some evidence based in physical reality. on a personal level, please, why do YOU believe in the q'uran? and i don't reject god because i don't like his rules, i reject him because there is no proof of his existence. which is good because if any 1 of the desert gods turned out to be real i don't think i could love him
johnnythesailorman 2 years ago
The test in this world is to believe without seeing him, if u see than thats not belief, but there are signs;
Now we came to the argument why we believe in the quran-The name Quran-recital is in the quran itself, it identifies itself as revealed in arabic, it identifies itself as word of Allah-god, its identifies the path its calls to-islam-submission to God; it identifies Islam as the only accepted religion, it mentions jews christians and their mistakes-all these are unlike other scriptures
penkallli 2 years ago
ex. the word bible isnt in the bible, word judaism or christianity isnt in the bible; the authorship of the quran isnt in dispute nonbelievers say its by Muhamed believers say its by God; quran is memorized by heart by millions, so we have 2 chains scribed and memorized chains of narrations reaching to the prophet; prophet Muhamed was know even prior to Islam as the trustworthy; quran offers a way to disprove it - to offer contradiction in it; quran is the basic of arabic grammar and literature
penkallli 2 years ago
Quran provides challenge to imitate its style and text-literal form to the whole world; quran isnt prose or poetry it created its own form, it has very rich in rhetorical literal features; it provides rational thinking as a way to God, not just because I say its true; all arabic grammar is based and derives from the quran; arab poets at the time of prophet Muhamed couldnt match it, Muhamed wasnt known for poetry; sign in the quran from historical, scientific perspective-ex.
penkallli 2 years ago
mentioning city of Iram, lost city and all records of it lost, recenlty discovered in writing in Syria; distinction between calling in the time of prophet Joseph-king or pharaoh, the quran calls the ruler king, cause they called themselves kings; scientific ex. Hevean-universe expanding-which is discovered now, just to mention greeks thought universe was static and eternal; in a saying of prophet Muhamed its said:land of arabs was full of water and green and it will be so in the fufure..etc
penkallli 2 years ago
This is so vast that I forget to mention, quran isnt in chronological order, like the bible from start to finish like men would write, its been revealed during 23 years, the first words are in the last part of the quran, and all fits, also prophet Muhamed was illiterate , etc. in a nutshell we have what to show to the world and argue that indeed quran is unique and its from God
penkallli 2 years ago
interesting stuff you got here, but the fact thqat it is not in chronological order doesn't prove anything. if i handed a report into my teacher in no chron order i would not be recognized as a prophet i would be recognized as a dunce. that stuff about the universe expanding?that kind of stuff is in the bible too in isaiah 40:22 it says the earth is a circle and the heavens are stretching out. once again because the word q'uran being in the q'uran doesn't prove that muhammad wrote it...cont.
johnnythesailorman 2 years ago
Comment removed
johnnythesailorman 2 years ago
cont-
A myriad of excuses and denials have been put forth by these later Muhammadans to cover up Muhammad's sinful error.
JUST imagine what muslims would say to christians had this been Jesus instead- Freaking amazing!!
aperisions 2 years ago
part3 then he took the plates home and translated them to a freind with the seer stones that came with the plates. He had someone writing down his revelations because god said that only Joseph was allowed to look at the plates at that time and he couldn't write the revelations himself because he was illiterate. after it was written god allowed josephs witnesses to see the plates, (they wrote the testimony of 3 witnesses). shortly thereafter joseph smith was martyred for what he believed.cont
johnnythesailorman 2 years ago
part4 so joseph smith was illiterate(like muhammad). yet he made a new holy book that was just more of the same but with a few different rules, in a different order and in a better more modern writing style(like the q'uran)his freinds saw the plates, and afterwards he was killed for his beliefs. now that you have heard this if you decide not to believe in it, and its true, when you die you will burn in hell forever. all this being said WHY ARE YOU NOT A MORMON YET? cont...
johnnythesailorman 2 years ago
part5. the test is for us to believe without seeing him. so god values naivity over ethics? there's two people who both give to the poor, don't steal, only have sex with their wives, eat kosher, observes the day of rest, etc. the only difference is one is gullible enough to unquestioningly believe the religion of his region & time, and is lucky enough be right about it. the gullible one is the one god loves and the other one gets to roast for all eternity? How can you describe that as just?
johnnythesailorman 2 years ago
For those who havent heard of Islam or faith in 1 God, God will judge accordingly; Its all on the individual the general rule is that the one to who comes Islam with arguments and rejects it he will be punished;
How can u compare Joseph Smith and Muhamed is beyond me ?! Most influental book by Michale Hart but Muhamed in 1 place; this is just to say who he was from historical point of view;
I provided u a glimpse of what Quran is, just recall the fact its the basis of arabic grammar !!
penkallli 2 years ago
@johnnythesailorman Your right, good words-thanks.
aperisions 2 years ago
Tom can:
1) Destroy the robot
2) Leave the robot on "pleasure" forever
3) Leave the robot on "pain" forever
If Tom picks 3, he's a sick fucker who would probably do the same thing to a cat. And if he didn't like the way the robot acted, you know what? He should have fixed it.
Tom's a dick. Q.E.D.
(Anybody else getting the impression that penkalli's god is like Sid from Toy Story?)
kufr72 2 years ago
som many stupid comment here that i want to seriously cry and kill religion fo what it cause to human brain
ThinkingPrometheus 2 years ago
@Sturmpionier04
I agree. The funny thing is they pretend that ALLAH was not one of the 360 pagan idols in the Kaaba in mecca. Allah was a stone idol of the moon god. This tribe of Arabs worshiped the moon and stars. What is on the minarets of a mosque? Crescent moon. What is on islamic flags, GUNS and Crescent moons and a star. I think if Allah is not Satan it is just a false god, a figure head of satan and alter ego of Mohammad, who was self professed crazy.
geeflyboy 2 years ago
lol if you believe in god and satan you're probably right... stan only killed 5 guys in the bible the thousands of others killed in genocide are all killed by the order of god.... satan has to do something if he wants to keep up xD
BalthazzarCH 2 years ago
What five guys did Satan kill? I've never heard of him killing anyone.
uberjinks 2 years ago
uhh i see it's actually 10 (discussable though)
type "people killed by satan" into google and hit the first link
BalthazzarCH 2 years ago
Ah! I see. I'm going to use that when I'm arguing with some Christians I know. Thanks.
uberjinks 2 years ago
Of course, it still -could- be true that a torturous, vengeful god really -does- run the world, and our behavior in his world really does determine our fate in an afterlife.
WouldbeSage 2 years ago
Shyeah. And monkeys might fly out of my butt.
kufr72 2 years ago
whats wrong dont like the truth ? dont really care ,,, it what it is simple and factual
lesterclaypool1 2 years ago
The problem, Atheist with no understanding of God or Christianity try to explain it, they can't. This is not what God promises. There are consequences for Sin. In life they are apparent, man is his own devil. After LIFE NO ONE KNOWS. You take it by faith. If you don't beleive in God, rejoice you will become worm food. Your life was an accident, fluke of the universe with no meaning, now worm food to fertilize crops; a cow will eat the crop and shit you out. Sad. I'll go with Jesus and salvation.
gmcjetpilot 2 years ago
gmcjetpilot
You are arrogant and condescending. Who in hell do you think you are?
Don't you realise that most atheists understand it all because they are ex believers.
The problem lies with you. You are simply too lazy to learn the truth and too afraid to face it.
believerornot 2 years ago
@believerornot Pot meet kettle. Hypocrite.
Who the hell are YOU?
Prove MOST ATHEIST are ex-believers. That is CRAP out your ass. EX-believers of WHAT? Christianity? Jews who become secular just don't give a shit and NEVER call their self something stupid like ATHEIST. Ex-Muslims often become Christians or secular. ATHEIST ARE ATHEIST. EVEN so called EX-theist have NO CLUE what they are talking about.
LAZY? I read the Bible. I read the Quran. I have two masters degree's, YOU. Shut up!
gmcjetpilot 2 years ago
gmcjetpilot
masters degrees in what? Talking out of your ass?
You are a liar as well as a lazy bastard!
We simply don't understand huh? know why.. because WE ARE NOT DELUSIONAL!
believerornot 2 years ago
@believerornot
Dear Troll:
My resume:
LSU B.S. Mechanical Engineering, '85
UW (Washington State) M.S. Physics and Mathematics, '91, which I earned while working full time at Boeing Space and Defense. My masters thesis was on strength and heat transfer in composite materials for high speed aerospace vehicles. My masters in mathematics was a non-Thesis programs, although my Physics thesis developed numerical methods, which could be a thesis unto itself.
Any more questions ass hole.
gmcjetpilot 2 years ago
Liar!
believerornot 2 years ago
no it very true ,,, how can islam justifie changing the storys of the bible ? no where in the bible written at the time solomon walked does any work talk of a flying carpet ,,, but its in the koran written 2400 years after solomon ,,, does nt that seam strange ?
lesterclaypool1 2 years ago
lesterclaypool1
What the hell difference does it make? Its just swapping one lie for another.
The only thing I find strange is that any people would take the writings of uneducated, bronze age people and assume they are anything more than the confused ideas and interpretations of life reflecting the culture and knowledge of the time. How any rational person can think they represent truth is beyond me.
Dont you find that strange?
believerornot 2 years ago
gmcjetpilot
Okay you are very smart.
Now give me the reason why a smart man like you can live 48 years and still believe that children's story?
I am 47 and I stopped believing it at 14.
I'm serious, I really want to know why?
believerornot 2 years ago
@ gmcjetpilot doesn't mean you're not crazy, newton was an alchemist and tried to predict the future
kaga13 2 years ago
@kaga13 TRUE! BUT People who call their self atheist are ANTI-Religion, specifically Anti-Christ. 90% are pissed at Jesus, yet give Islam a pass, which fuels Terrorism. Why? Bigotry, intolerance and hate of Christian's belief. NOT COOL! You don't believe? FINE! Live your Godless heathen life & SHUT UP! No one cares, but rudeness, intentional lying & hurting people, telling them they're stupid for believing in God is WRONG. WHO THE HELL R U! Expect a reaction or punch in the nose. I'M CRAZY! LOL!
gmcjetpilot 2 years ago
@gmcjetpilot
for the record 'christian' beliefs are actually western beliefs that were adopted by christianity not the other way around; I give NO religion a pass and I hate terrorism in all its forms and millions of atheists are generous kind honest and moral people (I'm not an atheist btw) as much as I admire christianity's works of selfless charity it IS stupid to take any holy text as literal word, THAT is what causes terrorism
kaga13 2 years ago
@kaga13
"Christian beliefs are actually western beliefs"
NO NO NO NO, Christian beliefs are of God in the HOLY BIBLE that goes back 6000 years ago BEFORE there was a "WEST".
Don't get secular culture mixed with Christianity.
gmcjetpilot 2 years ago
@kaga13
Your ignorance is offense. You know NOTHING of Christianity, history, humanities, philosophy, science. You're opinionated & ignorant.
There you go again CALLING PEOPLE STUPID. You never read it & don't understand the BIBLE. Your comment shows you are IGNORANT which leads to BIGOTRY. Scholars in history, philosophy, anthropology, theology that study the Bible at all the Worlds great Universities PRAISE the Bible for its wisdom, morals and historical accuracy. HOW DARE YOU!
gmcjetpilot 2 years ago
@gmcjetpilot
Oh and I have read the bible many times, first in my early teens when I was training to become a Roman Catholic Priest. Why do you think I became an atheist in the first place. I could never worship a psychopathic Murdering bastard like the God portrayed in the Bible!
If you use that book to derive your Moral base you must be psychotic too!
Why would you need somebody else to tell you what's right and what's wrong? Are you stupid? Oh yes.. I was forgetting!
believerornot 2 years ago
@believerornot
You Atheist cliche, attacking Christianity w/ LIES & twisted deception. You give islam a 100% pass. Threaten to KILL ME, DEATH TO AMERICA, plot attacks, carry attacks out against my nation, my Family, religion, culture or me, than I'm going to PERSECUTE YOU w/ EXTREME prejudice. American atheist demanded equal time to a Christmas tree & Jewish Menorah at the Illinois state Capital, with a hateful placard to piss people off. Typical ass holes. Time to tell Atheist FUCK OFF!
gmcjetpilot 2 years ago
@gmcjetpilot
you said "You Atheist cliche, attacking Christianity w/ LIES & twisted deception. You give islam a 100% pass.Threaten to KILL ME, DEATH TO AMERICA, plot attacks, carry attacks out against my nation, my Family, religion, culture or me,"
WTF? When did I do any of this. None of that is true.
You are just making stuff up now you Lying Stupid Moron!
Did I make up stuff about you? No.. I could have called you a paedophile and child killer, but I didn't.
believerornot 2 years ago
@believerornot
You're a self proclaimed Atheist. You identify yourself with a Religion, a hateful intolerant Faith of THERE'S NO GOD, Anti-Christianity & stands for nothing but self.
Not much of a stretch to go from hateful angry verbal attacks of Christian Faith to KILLING. I talked to 100's of atheist. Every one spews the BELIEF SYSTEM. Christians are inferior (Islam say this in the quran). Christians must submit to superior Atheist ideology (Islam says the same thing). You're both SATANIC
gmcjetpilot 2 years ago
Comment removed
gmcjetpilot 2 years ago
@believerornot
The BIBLE is perfect? No, if you want to put a number on it, 97.5% error free. The good part about the 2.5% error, God gave us so much info way back 3 or 4 milleniums to verify, discern what's not correct. We KNOW the errors because we have the ability to do textural criticism and LOOK at all the info from ORIGINAL manuscripts to scholarly fields of history, anthropology, linguistics, sociology and on and on. IT ALL FITS! Historically it's reliable document. Nuff said.
gmcjetpilot 2 years ago
@believerornot
You are a LIAR.... that is all I have to say.
You know NOTHING of the Bible. The OLD TESTAMENT DAYS ARE OVER IDIOT. Get over it. You would have known we are New Testament people, if you had theological training. FRAUD!
"Moral base you must be psychotic"
Great leaders in history, even secular scholars say the Bible has the greatest system of morals & wisdom mankind has. Youtube troll disagrees. HA HA! Sum total of your arguments, call me stupid and lie about Christianity.
gmcjetpilot 2 years ago
@gmcjetpilot
"The OLD TESTAMENT DAYS ARE OVER IDIOT." really. Thats not what Jesus said: (Matthew 5:18-19 RSV) (Luke 16:17 NAB) (2 Timothy 3:16 NAB) (John 1:17)
and finally: ...the scripture cannot be broken. --Jesus Christ, John 10:35
Have you ever tried reading your New Testement STUPID MAN?
"Great leaders in history, even secular scholars say the Bible has the greatest system of morals & wisdom mankind has"
Give me some names and sources because until then that is bullshit.
believerornot 2 years ago
if i quote santa books, does that make santa real?
mickeykozzi 2 years ago 3
@believerornot
You say you're an Atheist. I know what you beleive, your RELIGION. When I say I beleive in Jesus Christ you make assumptions, some may be correct, that I know Jesus Christ is God manifested in the flesh and the Bible is the inspired Holy Word of God, God's message to us. Not every word, punctuation mark is pure perfection because man touched it. However God promised we'd have his message. READ IT
What does Ahteism stand for? TELL me what Atheism is to you (NOT the dictonary)
gmcjetpilot 2 years ago
the bible is not the literal word of any god and it is NOT historically accurate; or do you actually believe that the earth is 6000 years old, that adam was over literally 900 years old when he died or noah lived to be 600 years old? do you think the earth is a flat disk with a glass dome with water all around it? millions of christian scientist know the bible isn't an accurate historical document, are you smarter than they are?
kaga13 2 years ago
@kaga13
NO WHERE DOES the Bible say earth is 6000 yrs? NO WHERE! LOOK. Earth is older than 6k yrs, but I grave doubts about 4.5 BILLION. Radio Dating uses assumptions, one big one that's taken on FAITH. I have a masters in Physics. Carbon dating is good for 500k yrs at most, also has some big problems; it assumes atmosphere and cosmic radiation have been constant, BIG assumptions. You HAVE to make assumptions to fill in unknowns and give boundary conditions. It's science not God.
gmcjetpilot 2 years ago
PHD'S in physics say you are wrong and the only way to change the liftetime of elements is by destroying their internal structure in particle accelerators, science has nothing to do with atheism or religion, and even if those scientists believe in god (I do) it by no means whatsoever has to beh the christian's specific version of god, and science has pretty good ideas about where the universe came from
kaga13 2 years ago
@kaga13
Atheist does not lead to enlightenment and scientific discovers.
Atheism has NOTHING to do with science.
Science does not PROVE or Disprove God.
Science has no F'ing clue where the Universe came from, how earth really happened so perfect for life and how first life POOFED into existence from inanimate matter all by it self.
VERY intelligent, HIGHLY educated people in Science, Medicine and all Scholarly pursuits believe in God.
gmcjetpilot 2 years ago
@kaga13
You CLEARLY have issues with the BIBLE THAT YOU NEVER READ..... I mean DUDE how STUPID IS THAT. You never read it, studied it as a mature intelligent adult. May be you went to Sunday school once. Grow up for the Love of God.... Jesus Christ is REAL. Deal with it. I know you rebelling against God, may be your are Gay? I don't know but stop spewing ahteist propaganda. Atheist is a FAITH of being Anti-Religion (hate, intolerance) by hypocritical illogical people with personal issues.
gmcjetpilot 2 years ago
you are a freakin child, your best insult is to call me gay? I went to catholic school for 12 years, now deism makes more sense to me, and atheism is NOT a 'faith', I think jesus was a real guy walking around preaching love regardless of race 2000 years ago, son/avator of god I'm not so sure anymore
kaga13 2 years ago
@kaga13
NO WHERE DOES THE BIBLE SAY FLAT. It says earth is ROUND or Circular or Disk shape. The Word for Globe or more accurately "oblate spheroid" did not exist. IF THAT IS ALL IT TAKES FOR YOU TO DENY GOD... OK fine I don't care but stop twisting lies to deceive people.
Who are these MILLIONS of Christian Scientist? You are good at making unsupported or reference claims. The BIBLE if you knew it, you would know uses parables some times, stories to illustrate. Google:
gotquestion org
gmcjetpilot 2 years ago
@kaga13 Judeo-Christian Scientist: Google:
adherents com/people/100_scientists
Famous Scientists Who Believed in God
List of Christian thinkers in science
American Scientific Affiliation (ASA)
Atheist claim Bill Gates or Albert Eisenstein are devout fanatical Atheist? BULL. Their thoughts on God, Spirituality are complex. Fair to classify them as Agnostics but DEFINITELY not Atheist. King Atheist Dawkins? He discovered/Invented? "My goal is to distroy religion" That's science?
gmcjetpilot 2 years ago
@kaga13
Show me where the Bible is inaccurate? Please, I beg you. I dare you. If you say it, you should back it up right. You are after all talking about peoples Personal deeply held spiritual faith. What if you are wrong? ARE YOU THAT ARROGANT? You're a false witness and spewing lies. Does that even matter to you? Lying is justified by the means? If I correct you than you should stop saying crap right? Can you EVEN BE HONEST, or are you such a intolerant, bigot, hater you can't help it?
gmcjetpilot 2 years ago
gmcjetpilot
me hypocrite? why'
Since pretty much every culture in the world is infected with one or more religious delusion which affects the majority of people, its a pretty safe bet that the majority of atheists are ex believers. But you were to busy to make that analysis weren't you.
We have been labelled as Atheists, but since that label accurately describes our non belief in a god or gods then it fits well.
I would label you as a lazy, self opinionated, no nothing, lying, hypocrite.
believerornot 2 years ago
@believerornot
I know Atheist. People who call their self atheist are ANTI-Religion, specifically Anti-Christ. 90% are pissed at Jesus, yet give Islam a pass, which fuels Terrorism. Why? Bigotry, intolerance and hate of Christian's belief. NOT COOL! You don't believe? FINE! Live your Godless heathen life & SHUT UP! No one cares, but rudeness, intentional lying & hurting people, telling them they're stupid for believing in God is WRONG. WHO THE HELL R U! Expect a reaction or a punch in the nose.
gmcjetpilot 2 years ago
I am anti religion because it creates division amongst people where there should be none. This eventually leads to violence and death ("Expect a reaction or a punch in the nose. ") It also instils many other unrealistic and odd ideas in believers. Ideas like sin. Normal things like thinking, sex, homosexuality etc. become wrong and instil guilt into believers. This leads to metal disorders from depression to psychosis.
Its also run by psychotic Atheists who use it to control people like you.
believerornot 2 years ago
@believerornot
WRONG. People would create division WITH OUT religion. In fact historically Religion has been a great moderating force in humanity. Youre confused mostly with 1400 yr history of ISLAM, the JIHAD that started inn 622 and still goes on. That is the problem, but islam is a cult that is ANTI other religions, openly and per their quran. IT SAYS KILL to make all religion only for islam. Don't be a pussy, focus, Christians, Jews, Hindu and Buddist are not flying planes into buidlings.
gmcjetpilot 2 years ago
@gmcjetpiolet
you said "but rudeness, intentional lying & hurting people, telling them they're stupid for believing in God is WRONG."
I do not lie. That would be the religious people. I am only rude in response to rudeness or lies.
There are only two reasons I can see that a person would have to preach a religion. One is because they are making money from it. The other is because they are stupid.
So which is it Tough Guy?
believerornot 2 years ago
@believerornot
YOU ALREADY LIED SAYING RELIGION IS THE ROOT PROBLEMS. BULL! People, SIN is the problem. If we ALL followed Christianity, Peace, Forgiveness, Equality, Redemption, Salvation there wouldn't be a problem. You don't know ANY religion much less Jesus Christ. How can you speak, you're ignorant.
Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao and yes HITLER (who was as anti-Christ as they come) are histories BIGGEST mass murderers. I'm not preaching or making money. I do it to save people from your stupidity.
gmcjetpilot 2 years ago
@gmcjetpilot
I see you read history books that are filled with lies then. They obviously don't include the Crusades, the vast amount of wars in Europe over Catholic, protestant,Islamic and other beliefs. The Spanish inquisition, the on going problems in Northern Ireland, The bombing of Abortion clinics and murder of Abortion doctors, The Palestinian Israeli conflict and so on.
Hitler was a Roman Catholic. Stalin and Pol Pot were first and foremost communist.
You are Stupid!
believerornot 2 years ago
@believerornot OH GOD CRUSADES. Let me school. 638AD Muslims in constant violent imperialist expansion conquered Jerusalem (founded by Jews 1300BC). The MUSLIMS Jihad Murdered all the Jewish/Christian leaders, destroyed great Churches & for 460 yrs raped, looted, forced conversions on pilgrims or crucified DEAD. It was enough, 1095 Crusades were in responce. Church later appogized, renounced the Crusades; Fighting for land is against the teachings of Jesus Christ. EVER HEAR A MUSLIM APPOLGIZE?
gmcjetpilot 2 years ago
@believerornot
MORE PEOPLE WHERE KILLED ON 9/11 THAN 360 YRS OF THE SPANISH INQUISITIONS.
Historians agknowledge medieval times were violent, plagues, Wars, Muslims Jihad invasion into Spain, killing LOTS OF PEOPLE. Spanish Inquisition saved lives, as a moderating force. People agnolog it was harsh and wrong. So? We're in Afghanistan killing evil today. GOOD! SELF DEFENSE.
Northern Ireland sectarian issues ended 12 yrs ago. Muslims Sunni & Shiite are MURDERING EACH OTHER NOW & 1000 yrs.
gmcjetpilot 2 years ago
"@gmcjetpiolet
"MORE PEOPLE WHERE KILLED ON 9/11 THAN 360 YRS OF THE SPANISH INQUISITIONS."thanks for proving my point... Its all down to religion. False morality causing division where there should be none so that a few people at the top can get their kicks. Only The stupid fall for it.
STUPID PEOPLE LIKE YOU
believerornot 2 years ago
@believerornot
NO ONE APPROVES THE SPANISH INQUISITION ASS HOLE. Sorry, Now GET OVER IT. Take your head out your ass BOY. Islamic terrorism (Jihad) started 1400 yrs ago. Since 1972, the Jihad terror engine started again marked by the Munich Olympic massacre and has been FULL THROTTLE since 9/11, over 14,400 attacks since, MILLIONS killed in ISLAMIC TERROR ATTACKS. WHO GIVES A FUCK about Spaniards 400 YRS AGO? Typical atheist ass hole defending ISLAM EVIL by attacking Christianity. UNBELIEVABLE!
gmcjetpilot 2 years ago
@gmcjetpilot
"Northern Ireland sectarian issues ended 12 yrs ago. "
Don't talk out of your ass. Much of my family live there now and they tell a different story.
You are just so STUPID!
believerornot 2 years ago
@believerornot
Really when was the last act of violence ass hole. I am IRISH... fuck off.
The last real IRA violence ended in 1997, with some minor BS in 2001. Look it up dip shit.
More civilians were killed by Muslim extremists in two hours on September 11th than in the 36 years of sectarian conflict in Northern Ireland.
The Name of TERRORISM IS ISLAMIC YOU MOTHER FUCKER, GO TO HELL ASS HOLE!
Have a nice day
gmcjetpilot 2 years ago
@gmcjetpilot
you say: "The last real IRA violence ended in 1997"
RIRA have launched fifteen attacks in the last six months.
Two pizza delivery workers, one from Poland, were also gunned down. In the eyes of the RIRA they are "legitimate targets"
Over the past few years, dissident republican groups have stepped up their campaign of targeting Police of Northern Ireland and armyl. Last month a 300 lb car bomb in Castlewellan, Co Down.
You are not Irish, you are American and full of shit!
believerornot 2 years ago
@believerornot
You are Stupid! Screw you kid. I have two masters degrees and your a punk.
Hitler WAS NOT A ROMAN CATHOLIC. He renounce Catholicism. Fact! Ge said Jesus was NOT GOD, because he was a JEW, in Mein Kampf. Fact, Hitler LOVED Darwin, so he helped natural selection by killing Jews and Germans. He practiced eugenics killing "useless eaters", old/sick/handicapped and sterilized others!
Yes atheism leads to what, Dictators and communists, because it is Anti-God.
gmcjetpilot 2 years ago
There have been way way way more psycho murdering Christian Kings, Queens and dictators as well as others of different religions than atheist dictators. You are so selective with facts.
believerornot 2 years ago
@believerornot
Don't have time to get in a pissing match about your prejdice. Dictators come in all flavors, MOST are Atheist; biggest mass murderers, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao, Hitler were NO CHRISTIANS. Hitler was ANTI CHRIST. Only idiots think dropping the Word God makes you w/ God. Satan decives. Hitler RENOUNCED Jesus spacifically as a Jew, therefore not God; how non-Christian can you be.
POINT, IF YOU FOLLOW THE BIBLE you wouldn't be a murdering dictator. Atheist HAVE NO RULES, MAN FIRST.
gmcjetpilot 2 years ago
it looks like you didn't pay attention in history. Hitler was a practicing catholic, and stalin and zedong belonged to Militaristic Communism, which is almost like a religion in of itself. But the fact is, that's not even important, they were all fucking crazy MADMEN.
mites7 2 years ago 2