CO: How to Get Out of the Military thru Conscientious Object

[haolejohn]

@gatorneck305 just be a murderer for the bankers who own you...these wars aren't to protect the citizens...ppl who think like you are the problem with the world. douche bag.

[Meeks861]

@gatorneck305 Youre a fool, nuff said. I take it you're not even in the military or have ever served.By that logic you have single handedly spat in the face of two of the most honored Generals in U.S. history 1: Major General Smedly Butler recipient of two congressional medals of honor and Author of the book "War is a Racket" you should probably read it. And 2 Dwight D. Eisenhower, Butler served during WWI and Eisenhower in WWII. Get an education before you speak.

[Vegasburkmike]

Did all you CO's join for the college plan? What do you think the military is about?

[bull068]

Pro Tip: Don't trust your fucking chaplain.

[keggerous]

why join the military when u dont plan on possibly killing someone . . .? u should almost count on it if u join up. i mean holy shit ppl. im a pacifist and i would NEVER join the military. so i really cant understand why this dudes having any issues at all.

[xzrhsb]

Follow Jesus--------Or--------Support­ our United States MIlitary. we cant have our cake and eat it too.

[SGTSnakeUSMC]

Apparently this POS thought he was joining the boy scouts, or he simply thought he could take an oath, receive benefits, etc... but then be able to quit when he was asked to honor his commitment. They let him out because he only seemed to want to beat on US soldiers that broke the speed limit on base. Call him a CO?!, but they left out the rest of the letters....it really means, COward.

Semper Fi!

[Anothercoilgun]

For those who did not view the video correctly. This is about not going out and hunting people like animals. This is not about defending yourself.

[ProbyWaN1337]

Congrats to you, Jason. I just got out of AF, as well. I wish you the best of luck as a civilian!

[sideshowroy]

Can't blame you... you have been brainwashed since kids... School, TV shows, competitions, videogames... All that teaches you things like, war is a normal thing, killing people is necessary, obeying orders without questioning then is the only way to be successful, amongst other sad things I've seen some of you warmongers write here...

That is pretty sad, but I still believe in humanity... Say no to ignorance and remember "Every problem has in it the seeds of its own solution." - Norman V. Peale

[eveningstorm7]

what people forget is that the reason they even have the right to become COs is that people died serving this country for freedom. Freedom isn't free. Go live in Iraq for a while and see how you like it. Nobody wants to kill, but sometimes you have to do what you gotta do. God bless America!

[thnksmarter]

@eveningstorm7 negative, ghostrider. Freedom is free. Tell me where in the US Constitution that you need to kill others in order to preserve it because I don't know where that clause is. I have been to combat in Iraq twice as a Marine. Conscientious means "well-researched." Are you?

[Warpath2198]

@thnksmarter how many Xbox games did you play in your FOB? hmm doesn't sound so bad ass now does it? Too many pussy's running around joining the military looking for a husband, couldn't do crap in the civilian world, some random liberal who joined for "COLLEGE' and that is it. You sign the dotted line do your duty and if you don't like then get out when your enlistment is due.

[USAFPOLfreak1978]

Guys like these kill me! What did you think you were joining the Armed Services to do? I am going to be a cop in the Air Force and give people pudding and make babies smile! Haha! What a duech bag!

[DonnyGLX]

You've got to be kidding me. You spent months going through basic then tech school to be an SP. And then you realise you're a CO. 1. you joined the military 2. you were a SP. Why are you not surprised most cases go to the supreme court? You've already done 2 big things that 99% of people in the world recognize that they might have to kill someone if they did either of those. But hey Congrats on wasting alot of people time training your dumb ass and taxpayers money. We need an IQ test at MEPS!

[RGMerkel]

As someone in the military, I totally support this guys right to his beliefs but, I do not agree with him in any way shape or form.When you enlist, you know you very well might have to take a life.Sorry, but if a child points a gun at me or my battle buddy,I'm going to pull the trigger first. Do I want to kill anyone? No,but I will if if I have no other choice.

[clhoyt1003]

RGMerkel. THANKS SO MUCH for your sacrifice of time, energy, sweat, & possibly blood & tears. All Americans owe you & those like you a debt we can probably never repay.

Second, I agree with you on the enlisting thing. No one in their right mind wants to have to kill anyone. And no one in their right mind wants war. But sometimes both become necessary for survival as a nation on the larger scale, or the personal survival of one & his buddies on the battlefield. Some will never understand this.

[2323555]

WHAT THE FUCK are you talking about you moron?! a soldier was order to empty rounds into a fucking car that had a kid in it...you cocksucker! the kid didn't have a gun! you stupid fucking cunt.

[Anothercoilgun]

Try viewing the video next time.

[leocorrea]

co aka easy way out. did he not know its possible to have to kill someone in iraq? the chair force doesn't have to worry about much anyways

[itsallgood2beme2]

First off, get your facts straight leocorrea. The Chair Force may have been an acceptable nickname in the past but is no longer. The Air Force has all the same jobs as any other branch, just titled differently. In fact, it's pararescue training has the highest dropout rate in the DoD, including navy seals. Secondly, I agree with RGMerkel. When you enlist, you know, or should know, that may possibly have to shoot someone, especially if you're security forces.

[girbilpigweb]

You should ask some COs what it took to get out as a CO before you call it easy. The military put Jason through weeks of shit on the premise of making sure he was 'for real' when they were really trying to make him give up and go to Iraq to do things he was morally opposed to doing and which the recruiters never mentioned while advertising money for education, job training, and foreign adventure which they never actually delivered.

[stevelau1911]

I seriously get where u are coming from. I am completely against the war and I was in OIF 2 but Im not miltary anymore.

I hope your word gets out to more people.

[KARStarla]

God bless soldiers like this for not being the brainless "YESSSS SIR!"

I'd fire at trees, I couldnt shoot another human being except maybe to save others from a monster

[durtiwiteboy]

People like you who take freedom for granted need to be forced to live in a third world country so you can wake the hell up and appreciate what you have. I'm in the Army, my Yes Sir is not because I'm brainless, it's because I'm smart enough to realize that success requires all orders to be followed without question. Instead of mocking the countless so called "brainless" who have lost their lives, why don't you be grateful we do our job so you can stay home and worry about your "monsters"

[Randroide]

@durtiwiteboy "success requires all orders to be followed without question". Any "success" that requires blind obedience is a FAILURE. If you stop thinking about orders, you have failed as a rational being, i.e., you have failed as a human being.

[Watermark0n]

You guys are being stupid. It's written in international law that it's perfectly legitimate for a person to become a conscientious objector - even after he's volunteered.

[vennchris]

Yeah, and he talks about religious beliefs. I'm a catholic and we should always follow the commandments of God, and one of them is:

"Thou shall not kill"

I'll follow my beliefs and do as I'm told. I will fight NO War!

[BlackFlagProperty]

@vennchris

First.... its thou shall not murder. Using the catholic religion to hide from not killing the enemy is not a good excuse. Maybe you should look up the crusades, and the Spanish Inquisition and many other wars that the catholic church waged. Second, If you don't want to go to war don't go into the military during an active war and say "well i joined but i don't want to do my job". The enemy doesn't care about conscious objectors, they will kill you just the same.

[zumadale]

@vennchris Thou shalt not kill ... KILL: To lie in wait and commit premeditated homocide (actual interpretation from the original language) ... doesn't mean you can't "kill" to defend yourself or country or to feed yourself. Although ALL these wars we are involved in today do not meet the "just war" rules set forth in the Bible. We're not to meddle in other's affairs or get involved in nation building.

[InsaneReporters95]

Dude, It's a volunteer force. When you signed up you volunteered to kill.

[smokedup213]

listen ppl, if u dont want to kill someone, then DONT join the arms forces idiots, i mean this is sinceless!

[superjiu]

Zobor, I have to agree with Baker on this one. The most they would do is give you an article 14 for disobeying orders. The only time you really get shot at by a buddy or NCO is if you piss them off.

As for Nathan, it doesn't matter what branch your in. As long as your stationed somewhere within the U.S., consider it a high risk job.

[pbaker7090]

I'm a marine and I object this war. However if you join the military and CO only on the basis that killing is wrong, then you should not have joined. Imagine if we had that thought process during WWI or WWII? It doesn't always work.

And to Zobor, you're a liar. I'm a marine, the best of the best and we don't threaten lives. AWOL would also mean you'd be in prison. I love story tellers. Prolly a 12 year old in your basement

[superjiu]

Just so you know, during the time that I joined, Recruiters were going around everywhere talking about $100,000 sign-up bonuses, Free SUV's, and all these other great beneifts for signing up. With the economy going into a recession, more and more people are going to turn to this as a source of income. Especially since the military test are made so that even a pre-schooler could pass it. At the summer of '05 I watch BCT go from hard-core training to a baby-sitting camp. Expect the worse to come.

[Zobor111]

Your the 12 yo, asshole! Marines are the dumbest most brainwashed dickheads about. And I dont lie! I know that some of our soldiers have been murdered by our own troops, it happens in every war, so dont deny it, bird brain!

[pbaker7090]

Wow I think that the response there shows your intelligence. This isn't third grade. We debate with some logic.

But to super, yes they are def slowing down the bootcamps. Luckily the marines havent been softened much. It's a way to keep numbers up, the problem though is with all of this easy training, they die faster. We're training body bags.

[nathanballa100]

he's an air force officer... not a high risk job

[Zobor111]

If U refuse an order in combat, even unlawful, you risk being shot by the NCO or a buddy. I was threatened many times, that if I refused any order, I will be shot. So I went AWOL from the NG. FTG

[jinglypacoberry]

You went AWOL? What happened?

[Zobor111]

They tried to get me, but I moved around. After 5 mo. they discharged me with a general D.

[ninjas078]

WAt u mean bro ?????

[superjiu]

You seriously don't understand the traumas that go on in a war. And you never will until you've gone through it like the rest of us.

[superjiu]

And no one here can change the fact that everyone knows drugs are bad for them. In fact, they know it can kill them, but they still do it anyway. Period.

If you were placed under pressure to do something like that in a place where its I kill you or you kill me, and you were told to kill someone, would you have done the same?

How could you report it if you then realize after killing someone you were order to kill, was also as much your fault as your superior officer?

[superjiu]

I don't see the point in arguing with someone who only knows what the media puts on t.v. as "facts". I would really like to know where your sources are coming from.

[vladimir998]

There's something wrong with this loser. He says he joined the military in 2004 and left in 2006. That means he joined the military the year AFTER the US invaded Iraq. If he's a conscience objector to war, then where was his conscience in 2004? Or 2003? He sounds more like a personal coward or a con man who decided the leftist cause was a way to become more important than he was.

[Valvilis]

Oooh, yep, you caught him. What could make more sense than to join the military, and choose the separation method least likely to succeed, all just in order to... have an interview on YouTube?! You're an idiot.

[vladimir998]

No, clearly you're the idiot. Refute what I said if you can. Why would someone opposed to the war in Iraq join the military a year after the invasion of Iraq, moron?

[Valvilis]

That's why conscientious objection exists - it's for soldiers who didn't think they would have a problem participating in war but later come to find that they cannot. No one would join the military if they knew before hand that they couldn't do the job that was expected of them. Your argument is similar to saying, "Why would someone who doesn't know they're allergic to shellfish order shellfish? I think they'd do it just to get a free meal after they have a bad reaction."

[vladimir998]

No. Historically, especially since WWI, those who claimed c/o status did so BEFORE BEING DRAFTED (OR JOINING) INTO THE MILITARY. Also, your shellfish analogy is completely wrong since we invaded Iraq in 2003 and this guy VOLUNTEERED for the military a year later! How could he not know about the war when we were already in it for year before HE VOLUNTEERED FOR IT? So, the question is, why would a man claim he objects to a war he volunteered to fight a year after it stared?

[Valvilis]

You don't seem to have a very firm grasp on what on the CO process and why it is in place. What you failed to grasp in the shellfish analogy is that most people don't realize they have a particular aversion until they are confronted with it. In this soldier's case, it was a fellow service member being ordered to kill a seven year old Iraqi girl. A very understandable catalyst to changing one to a decidedly anti-war ethic. There is no greater proponent of the anti-war movement than war itself.

[vladimir998]

The war started in 2003. He VOLUNTEERED for the military in 2004. He had to know about the war and most of the coverage was exceedingly negative after the initial invasion. His story doesn't make sense.

[Valvilis]

You're still missing the point. Yes, he volunteered, that means he *assumed* he was okay with all of the things the military would ask him to do. Then someone was asked to kill a little girl and that, understandably, caused him to realize that his assumption was wrong. It would be like if you took a job as a cook, but then found out that all the meat the restaurant served was dog and cat, then you decided to quit, even though you VOLUNTEERED to be a cook in the first place.

[vladimir998]

A single soldier being given an illegal order has no logical bearing on the rightness or wrongness of the war effort.

If he was committed to the war BEFORE that order he should have been committed to it AFTER since it had no bearing whatsoever on the rightness of war effort.

Your analogy fails. Using your info this would be the correct analogy: cook volunteers, another cook is told to cook cat, first cook then claims he can't be a cook (even though he doesn't have to cook cat).

[vladimir998]

Every single war America has fought has included instances of illegal orders. None of those instances retroactively made those wars immoral or illegal. Please learn to think.

[Valvilis]

I can already think, but thanks for the concern though. The shootings of women and children that takes place in Iraq everyday are by means of legal orders. Protocol is constantly evolving and more and more people are considered "potential threats." You've made it very clear that you have very little of a concept of what's going on in Iraq, so tell me why it is that you're so vehement about an issue that doesn't concern you and that you know so little about? Just curious.

[vladimir998]

1) There is no "shootings of women and children" in Iraq every day by US forces.

2) There are no such legal orders. Post them please. Can you? No? Surprise!

3) "Potential threats" are GOING down, not up.

4) I know very well what is going on in Iraq compared to you.

5) Truth matters. You may not care about it - as demonstrated by your posts - but it still matters.

6) Nothing you posted changes the fact that the man in question here joined the war in 2004. It started in 2003. He knew.

[Valvilis]

LOL, okay, that makes a lot more sense - you're one of those whack-job Iraq War conspiracy nuts who thinks the war is going perfectly. Watch the Iraq Veterans' Winter Soldier hearings, listen to the people who were there, the people who received the legal orders to kill civilians, listen to the people who carried drop weapons to leave on the civilians they killed, listen to the stories about the abuse and the rapes that the military ignores and condones. Your number 4 is hilarious...

[vladimir998]

No, I'm a realist. He had to know what was going on in 2003 when he VOLUNTARILY ENLISTED in 2004. You have yet to refute that simple, stark, and, apparently, irrefutable fact.

Also, my point #4 is still true.

[superjiu]

Yes...just like how people know drugs are bad for them and still do it anyway...

It is very obvious that you have never heard of the word "persuasion". Oh, wait, is there even such a word? Sorry I must be speaking japanese or something...

It's not your fiction that's irrefutable, It's your narrow-mindedness thats preventing you from see the "big picture" here.

[vladimir998]

I see the big picture while you see nothing but your leftist suppositions. Where are the facts? What little girl? When was this breach of military law reported? To whom? What proof do you have that this ADULT MAN was lied to by a recruiter? What? None? Right. You have nothing. Nothing at all. Yet, having not a single documented fact has not stopped you from posting repeating. Notice that? So, who here is really narrow-minded? Really?

[superjiu]

First off, in America, there is a little thing called military censorship. Evidence? How about you provide some of your own evidence. I talk out of personal experiences. Not out my ass. If you want evidence visit your own CO, because nobody is going post evidence of this crap due to the simple fact of demotion of the military is also illegal.

Seriously, inexperienced people like yourself have no right to talk about what others did.

[vladimir998]

BS. If a soldier is ORDERED to commit a crime he, by law, MILITARY LAW, must report that illegal order and refuse to obey it. Murdering a little girl falls under that category. If you don't believe me then look up UCMJ 809[890].ART.90, 891.ART.91, 892.ART.92 and 892.ART.92.

And again, no matter how inexperienced I am or you imagine me to be, NO ONE HERE can change the fact that this man VOLUNTARILY JOINED THE MILITARY in 2004 when the war began in 2003. Period.

[superjiu]

okay now all you need is to get some demographics on how many people knew that. People like me who were trained in the military are always taught to follow orders. Now you may believe thats stupid, but this is the military. You do what you are told to do to prevent it from being a consequence. You are a dog in the military trained and tamed to be let loose on the streets to do as you are told.

[vladimir998]

Everyone in the military is taught that they have no need to obey illegal orders and must report them. All soldiers receive training along these lines in basic training.

And again, no one has been able to refute the following: 1) evidence that the incident with the girl happened? Zero. 2) Fact that the man knew what war was like since it all over the place! Irrefutable. 3) Fact that soldiers are trained to disobey illegal orders and it is part of the UCMJ? Irrefutable.

[superjiu]

Dude, if you had any experience in any line of work the first thing you will always know is nothing ever goes as you want it to. Its as I said before, if you truly believe in your Ideals, then enlist for yourself and see just how "right" you really are.

[vladimir998]

Dude, if you had any experience with the world you would probably not refer to others as dude. Nothing I said suggested that things go perfectly in any enterprise. Also, my ideals need not be bolstered by my enlistment nor would the US military necessarily have me. The childish idea that someone must be a certain thing to support an ideal is nutty at best.  That's like saying you must work for youtube to post here.

[vladimir998]

You wrote: "Yes...just like how people know drugs are bad for them and still do it anyway..."

So, you're now admitting your hero is a moron? Only a moron would do what you suggested so he must be a moron then.

Also, this guy is an adult and was an adult when he VOLUNTEERED for the service A YEAR AFTER the war started. His problems are no one's fault but his own.

[superjiu]

Well think of it this way, how many people actually know about CO? How many people would object if they weren't threatened that there actions would mean treason and branded a traitor to your country? The whole process of getting out is not as easy as you think. Especially when the government spends millions of dollars training these people...

[vladimir998]

No one is threatened that their actions would mean treason or branded as a traitor over Iraq by the US military or government.

The process to get out is difficult. It should be. An oath is involved. But the guy in question joined one year AFTER the war began. He knew what he was getting into.

No one here has been able to refute that fact. He joined a year AFTER the war started. He had to know what he was getting into. Period.

[superjiu]

Um...doing a Military version of the SAT's, Stripe show, and an Oath to "don't ask, don't tell" doesn't require one to have any knowledge at all. And YES you are correct, people aren't threatened they will be branded a traitor over the war, they are promised, each and everyday, since the beginning of basic training. You have no idea about the corruption in the military and with the new kind of low's a recruiter will sink to, in order to meet there monthly quotas.

[vladimir998]

Nonsense. The simple fact is that recruiters are meeting their goals and to assume it is because of lying is idiocy.

[superjiu]

There are no assumptions to what I say. I dare you to enlist, come back out and still support your assumptions.

[Valvilis]

Wow, good for you. Well aside from all the enlistees who don't get the job their recruiter promised, don't get the base their recruiter promised, don't get the enlistment bonus they were promised, and are never able to collect their GI bill or a myriad of other failed promises... you're right - recruiters never lie.

[jbg42]

Thanks for posting.