I was lucky enough to get an early copy of VaporTrails, it sounds so much cleaner than the studio version. Such a bad mess up for what is one of my fav Rush LPs.
@TommYYZ Early copy? Something like demos you mean? And I agree, the original mixing/mastering was an absolute wreck to such a great album. I heard the vinyls of the album are considerably quieter, and much better in overall sound quality. Though it was noted that the vinyl still sounded fairly muddy.
@RadeonZero Yes, Geddy actually talks about the early demo that got out. He did not mention that it sounded better though...ha ha. I got a copy of VT about 3 months before it hit store shelves.
@DOMECHOPBRAINS On a proper sound system, the "beef" is there. In a interview the band had said these remixes (this and 'One Little Victory') that Richard Chycki had did were a lot more how they wanted the album to sound. The band is also funding the remixes because Atlantic doesn't have much interest in funding the albums' remix being a decade-old. Richard, the band and the mastering engineer for these remixes Andy VanDette are all optimistic due to the most part, positive responses.
Man, this sounds about a million times better than the album version (Going even a little quieter with the master would probably make it sound amazing turned up, but this is listenable, which is an improvement!) Honestly, I bought Vapor Trails, but I only got through it from beginning to end once.
@Eyedunno Agreed 100%. It is a bit quieter (I've even done SNR comparisons between the original master and the Remix's of 'One Little Victory' and 'Earthshine'.) Honestly by the time the complete remix comes out if Dynamic Range has become as wanted of a thing as I think it has, then whenever it comes out it should be a bit quieter and even better then this is. I'm glad Richard Chycki did the remixes, listenable is a short term of description between the original master and these remixings.
Wow this sounds so much better than the original. I love Rush, but the production and mix on a few albums leaves me wondering. Especially Vapour Trails, it's awful. Thankfully it improved on later releases.
@KeyGuy1967 Well the 'Vapor Trails' remixes are being done by Richard Chycki. I'm guessing the complete remix of the album will be out sometime next year, early through mid is my real estimate.
@KeyGuy1967 The production on Vapor Trails is absoloutly genius, the mix however is very hit and miss, but in saying that, it appeals to me because it sounds RAW and thrashy as opposed to the clean approach they usually take, but listen to the production, the sequencing on the reversed guitar parts, where they come in, the use of bass chords and Alex's bass lines on guitar, its just incredibly hard to emulate, and incredibly hard to compose anything like it. Production is how a song is layed out
@wilfan12 Well I guess our definitions of "production" have deifferent meanings. Musical producation encompasses all facets of the recording process from mix levels to how the instruments are tuned and what studio is used for recording, there are a ton of variables.
When it's all said and done I put Vapour Trails in my sound system and no matter how much I play with my EQ levels it still sounds distorted and awful.
I love Rush, just wish some of their music was recorded better
@KeyGuy1967 I have to agree with your definition for production better. What both of you guys said deal with the term "production". Short and simple, it depends what kind of production you are really talking about.. But the term production deals with nearly every aspect of a album.
@vanhouten64 It is the album version, in fact, Richard Chycki when talking about the remixes had stated that he hadn't use any live performance corrections, or re-recordings, just purely a remix. So far what's known is he's doing a remix of the entire album, my guess is next year we'll see 'Clockwork Angels' and the remix of 'Vapor Trails'.
I love this song, but I prefer the live version. Usually, I stick with the album because a lot of live recordings I've heard don't quite grab that clarity of sound you get in the studio. But both album versions are rather dark. The Rush in Rio version has the tone open wide--Alex's chorused guitars in the refrain, Geddy has more growl in the bass, and Neil's drums have the right air to them. (Not a troll, I just tend to write in-depth. :P)
@eddievhfan1984 I know what you mean. Live captures elements studio recordings don't. I personally perfer the live version or the remix of the song. The original master is horrid! But anyways, a dark song is a dark song. Even in the live version, it still has that darkness to it...
@RadeonZero Well, as has been mentioned before, it's more a case that the album master tracks were clipped to hell. I feel a lot of the high-end was loss as a result.
@eddievhfan1984 Well, the mid-range had serious 'feedback' issues and the entire range static issues. The high end was filled with mostly clicks, pops, snaps and distortions rather than a nice "pure" sound. I've spent the past few hours messing with the original master for 'One Little Victory', I've done a lot of peak corrections - but it still even with the 'corrections' in place, it doesn't result in as good of a result as one would really hope it would.
@SgtZaqq I wish I had the master tracks. But original master as in the mastered version that was released on the album back in 2002. Only reason why I state it that way is because I was informing people if you haven't noticed by now that Richard Chycki is doing a remix of the entire album -- which I am guessing will come out next year sometime.
@eddievhfan1984 And a continuation...I feel the remix also contains much more 'power' to this song than the original master does. The haunting tones are caught just as well, etc, etc...Then a side note, also with messing with the peaks, I've fixed a lot of high-end 'loss' and a lot of distortions apparently in a spectral analysis.
The reason I love Vapor Trails above all albums is because of what the originals sounded like, it wasnt Rush, it was modern, raw, FILTHY sounding, as someone said, it had BALLS .. Now it sounds like more of an overproduced over mixed album, like Snakes and Arrows, which is great for S and A, because its more technical, and more Rush, but Vapor Trails isnt Rush's sound and it stands out over EVERY single one of their albums. My opinion though :)
@wilfan12 Sorry, but the remix Richard Chycki did, has the "balls." It doesn't sound like a peak-destroyed, overtly-loud, dynamics-dead, 47 Hz-spike. This sounds crisp, definable, and rich-in-bass for the tone. It also sounds very natural among all of the Rush songs besides some of the 'Counterparts' songs. On a true studio-setup speaker system, you'd be able to change your mind to enjoy this mix as much in nearly a heartbeat most likely.
This is still fairly loud and compressed really, considering the whole point of this master was to stop the problems created by the loudness war (TT-DR Offline measures it as DR-7). Still, incomparably better than the initial mix (which is DR-5). Job well done.
@BinaryPill You mean 'Job well done' to Richard Chycki. Hah. [The engineer that has been working with Rush since R30 and to this day is.] Well, there's no real way to fix the damaged recordings - without re-recording sessions which is not going to happen. Remember one thing, only in the past two years, has the loudness war started to be severly criticized by the public, even in '09 it wasn't much. And the two official remixes, this and 'One Little Victory' were released in 2009.
@Kurtlifeson If you were on a proper sound system, and in a proper room....Maybe you'd be able to tell the difference. There's a lot more people that like the remix than don't like it for good reasons. There's another "way the wind blows", if you don't have the proper setup as it's meant to be heard. Don't talk. (I'm not trying to start a fight or anything, or be rude - even though I was a bit, but it's just how I feel about it.)
@RustySacks Richard Chycki did a lot more then just that for this and "One Little Victory [Remix]". Anyways, keep your eyes open! Back in Feb. Rush had said Chycki would be doing the 'Vapor Trails' remaster in its entirety. He has that, 'Time Machine [Live]', and then 'Clockwork Angels' to work with as well. Really has his plate full.
@RadeonZero I'm glad he'as watching out out for overclocking. Rick Rubin is the best producer, but either he is or he's letting his engineers ruin all he latest Chilli Peppers albums!
@1994HAKON No problem! I'm keeping up to date with the "Rush news" to see when Richard Chycki has completed remastering the album in its entirety. (He has the 'Vapor Trails' remixes to do, the 'Time Machine Tour [Live]' mixing to do, and then the rest of 'Clockwork Angels' to do. The guy sure has a lot on his plate.) Check out the 'One Little Victory [Remix]' since that's the other official remix - that is if you haven't heard it yet.
@cylonace Hey no problem. I uploaded this and "One Little Victory [Remix]" from 'Retrospective III' for peoples enjoyment. The two remixes are as well to appear on the entirety of the remix of the album that will be done by Richard Chycki. To anyone that thinks it sounds "lifeless" or "worse", you need to get your ears checked in my opinion. Hah. Anyways, glad to hear you enjoyed it!
Genius. I think the album would of done better if it had originally been mixed like this. So much more room for everything to breathe, better clarity, etc.
@pineapplepeanuts Agreed. Rich Chycki is remastering the entire album (confirmed by the band.) He did a great job with 'Earthshine' and 'One Little Victory', the remixes were so well percieved they decided that they'd let him remix the entire thing.
@RadeonZero Hope they make it available. I'd buy it again. Whoever mixed it the first time took a crap on Rush's legacy, and it was at a critical time for the band. Also was the year I graduated, so its a special album to me ;-) Very inspirational lyrics and music.
@pineapplepeanuts It is confirmed for remaster with Chycki. I double checked. But, it was mainly on the person setting the - recording settings, and then Geddy and Alex, admittedly. The mixer should never have let Geddy mix it in the ways he did, he should've said unacceptable, and then he should've made them take more time, which was on Alex's behalf, Alex just wanted to hit the road again ASAP. And believe me, you're not the only one waiting for the entire album remaster.
@RadeonZero Oh Geddy and Alex did it? Haha...that's unfortunate. Can't wait for the remaster, might breathe new life into an album otherwise full of great performances and songwriting. Really was compromised by a horrible mix, I'm sorry to say.
@waffelcone You can thank Richard Chycki. He also mixed "R30", "Snakes & Arrows", "Snakes & Arrows [Live]", and is now mixing "Clockwork Angels." He'll be completely remastering "Vapor Trails" as well. This and 'One Little Victory [Remix]' are just mild (seemingly) examples. Seeing 'Ghost Rider' mixed and mastered properly will be amazing to see.
@RadeonZero okay cool, thanks. yeah i'd love to hear ghost rider, as well as the rest of the album. and he does a very good job...caravan and BU2B sound amazing
@waffelcone 'Caravan' and 'BU2B' in a engineer perspective sound like crap. The loudness war took its toll on the songs horribly, and it was admitted. Rush had stated to going back to remix the songs so they didn't sound, as is. I can agree, if the distortions from the peaks being pushed so high in mastering weren't there, the sound would be excellent! Rich did great in the mixing, just to bad the mastering engineer after Rich was done is being forced to push the peaks so high.
I was lucky enough to get an early copy of VaporTrails, it sounds so much cleaner than the studio version. Such a bad mess up for what is one of my fav Rush LPs.
TommYYZ 3 weeks ago
@TommYYZ Early copy? Something like demos you mean? And I agree, the original mixing/mastering was an absolute wreck to such a great album. I heard the vinyls of the album are considerably quieter, and much better in overall sound quality. Though it was noted that the vinyl still sounded fairly muddy.
RadeonZero 3 weeks ago
@RadeonZero Yes, Geddy actually talks about the early demo that got out. He did not mention that it sounded better though...ha ha. I got a copy of VT about 3 months before it hit store shelves.
TommYYZ 3 weeks ago
They just need to remove the crowd sound from the Rio version pretty much.
DOMECHOPBRAINS 2 months ago
the "beef" to this track is gone... the original needs the acoustic guitar part turned up around 0:44 and that's pretty much it.
DOMECHOPBRAINS 2 months ago
@DOMECHOPBRAINS On a proper sound system, the "beef" is there. In a interview the band had said these remixes (this and 'One Little Victory') that Richard Chycki had did were a lot more how they wanted the album to sound. The band is also funding the remixes because Atlantic doesn't have much interest in funding the albums' remix being a decade-old. Richard, the band and the mastering engineer for these remixes Andy VanDette are all optimistic due to the most part, positive responses.
RadeonZero 2 months ago
Awesome perspective.
VegasRage 2 months ago
Man, this sounds about a million times better than the album version (Going even a little quieter with the master would probably make it sound amazing turned up, but this is listenable, which is an improvement!) Honestly, I bought Vapor Trails, but I only got through it from beginning to end once.
Eyedunno 3 months ago
@Eyedunno Agreed 100%. It is a bit quieter (I've even done SNR comparisons between the original master and the Remix's of 'One Little Victory' and 'Earthshine'.) Honestly by the time the complete remix comes out if Dynamic Range has become as wanted of a thing as I think it has, then whenever it comes out it should be a bit quieter and even better then this is. I'm glad Richard Chycki did the remixes, listenable is a short term of description between the original master and these remixings.
RadeonZero 3 months ago
Wow this sounds so much better than the original. I love Rush, but the production and mix on a few albums leaves me wondering. Especially Vapour Trails, it's awful. Thankfully it improved on later releases.
KeyGuy1967 4 months ago
@KeyGuy1967 Well the 'Vapor Trails' remixes are being done by Richard Chycki. I'm guessing the complete remix of the album will be out sometime next year, early through mid is my real estimate.
RadeonZero 4 months ago
@KeyGuy1967 The production on Vapor Trails is absoloutly genius, the mix however is very hit and miss, but in saying that, it appeals to me because it sounds RAW and thrashy as opposed to the clean approach they usually take, but listen to the production, the sequencing on the reversed guitar parts, where they come in, the use of bass chords and Alex's bass lines on guitar, its just incredibly hard to emulate, and incredibly hard to compose anything like it. Production is how a song is layed out
wilfan12 1 month ago
@wilfan12 Well I guess our definitions of "production" have deifferent meanings. Musical producation encompasses all facets of the recording process from mix levels to how the instruments are tuned and what studio is used for recording, there are a ton of variables.
When it's all said and done I put Vapour Trails in my sound system and no matter how much I play with my EQ levels it still sounds distorted and awful.
I love Rush, just wish some of their music was recorded better
KeyGuy1967 1 month ago
@KeyGuy1967 I have to agree with your definition for production better. What both of you guys said deal with the term "production". Short and simple, it depends what kind of production you are really talking about.. But the term production deals with nearly every aspect of a album.
RadeonZero 1 month ago
This sounded much better than the album version.
vanhouten64 4 months ago
@vanhouten64 It is the album version, in fact, Richard Chycki when talking about the remixes had stated that he hadn't use any live performance corrections, or re-recordings, just purely a remix. So far what's known is he's doing a remix of the entire album, my guess is next year we'll see 'Clockwork Angels' and the remix of 'Vapor Trails'.
RadeonZero 4 months ago
I love this song, but I prefer the live version. Usually, I stick with the album because a lot of live recordings I've heard don't quite grab that clarity of sound you get in the studio. But both album versions are rather dark. The Rush in Rio version has the tone open wide--Alex's chorused guitars in the refrain, Geddy has more growl in the bass, and Neil's drums have the right air to them. (Not a troll, I just tend to write in-depth. :P)
eddievhfan1984 4 months ago
@eddievhfan1984 I know what you mean. Live captures elements studio recordings don't. I personally perfer the live version or the remix of the song. The original master is horrid! But anyways, a dark song is a dark song. Even in the live version, it still has that darkness to it...
RadeonZero 4 months ago
@RadeonZero Well, as has been mentioned before, it's more a case that the album master tracks were clipped to hell. I feel a lot of the high-end was loss as a result.
eddievhfan1984 4 months ago
@eddievhfan1984 Well, the mid-range had serious 'feedback' issues and the entire range static issues. The high end was filled with mostly clicks, pops, snaps and distortions rather than a nice "pure" sound. I've spent the past few hours messing with the original master for 'One Little Victory', I've done a lot of peak corrections - but it still even with the 'corrections' in place, it doesn't result in as good of a result as one would really hope it would.
RadeonZero 4 months ago
@RadeonZero original master for 'One Little Victory'? You mean master tracks for every instrument or what?
SgtZaqq 3 months ago
@SgtZaqq I wish I had the master tracks. But original master as in the mastered version that was released on the album back in 2002. Only reason why I state it that way is because I was informing people if you haven't noticed by now that Richard Chycki is doing a remix of the entire album -- which I am guessing will come out next year sometime.
RadeonZero 3 months ago
@eddievhfan1984 And a continuation...I feel the remix also contains much more 'power' to this song than the original master does. The haunting tones are caught just as well, etc, etc...Then a side note, also with messing with the peaks, I've fixed a lot of high-end 'loss' and a lot of distortions apparently in a spectral analysis.
RadeonZero 4 months ago
The reason I love Vapor Trails above all albums is because of what the originals sounded like, it wasnt Rush, it was modern, raw, FILTHY sounding, as someone said, it had BALLS .. Now it sounds like more of an overproduced over mixed album, like Snakes and Arrows, which is great for S and A, because its more technical, and more Rush, but Vapor Trails isnt Rush's sound and it stands out over EVERY single one of their albums. My opinion though :)
wilfan12 4 months ago
@wilfan12 Sorry, but the remix Richard Chycki did, has the "balls." It doesn't sound like a peak-destroyed, overtly-loud, dynamics-dead, 47 Hz-spike. This sounds crisp, definable, and rich-in-bass for the tone. It also sounds very natural among all of the Rush songs besides some of the 'Counterparts' songs. On a true studio-setup speaker system, you'd be able to change your mind to enjoy this mix as much in nearly a heartbeat most likely.
RadeonZero 4 months ago
This is still fairly loud and compressed really, considering the whole point of this master was to stop the problems created by the loudness war (TT-DR Offline measures it as DR-7). Still, incomparably better than the initial mix (which is DR-5). Job well done.
BinaryPill 5 months ago
@BinaryPill You mean 'Job well done' to Richard Chycki. Hah. [The engineer that has been working with Rush since R30 and to this day is.] Well, there's no real way to fix the damaged recordings - without re-recording sessions which is not going to happen. Remember one thing, only in the past two years, has the loudness war started to be severly criticized by the public, even in '09 it wasn't much. And the two official remixes, this and 'One Little Victory' were released in 2009.
RadeonZero 5 months ago
Sounds very thin and high endy.....no balls!
The original mix is the better of the two.....
As they say...."Don't fix what isn't broken..."
Kurtlifeson 5 months ago
@Kurtlifeson If you were on a proper sound system, and in a proper room....Maybe you'd be able to tell the difference. There's a lot more people that like the remix than don't like it for good reasons. There's another "way the wind blows", if you don't have the proper setup as it's meant to be heard. Don't talk. (I'm not trying to start a fight or anything, or be rude - even though I was a bit, but it's just how I feel about it.)
RadeonZero 5 months ago
Aw man I love how they boosted the background vocals in this version and the acoustic guitars. It;'s great!
RustySacks 6 months ago
@RustySacks Richard Chycki did a lot more then just that for this and "One Little Victory [Remix]". Anyways, keep your eyes open! Back in Feb. Rush had said Chycki would be doing the 'Vapor Trails' remaster in its entirety. He has that, 'Time Machine [Live]', and then 'Clockwork Angels' to work with as well. Really has his plate full.
RadeonZero 6 months ago
@RadeonZero I'm glad he'as watching out out for overclocking. Rick Rubin is the best producer, but either he is or he's letting his engineers ruin all he latest Chilli Peppers albums!
RustySacks 6 months ago
@RustySacks Where does Rick Rubin come into this exactly? As far as I know he hasn't had any affiliations with Rush or Richard Chycki.
RadeonZero 6 months ago
@RadeonZero Rush wanted to work with Rubin, but he was busy and he suggest long-time Foo Fighters collaborator- you guessed it, Nick Raskulinecz! =)
RustySacks 6 months ago
@RadeonZero
He mentioned Rubin, because Rubin has been responsible for a lot of brickwalled albums, particularly with the work he's done with the Chilli peppers.
Superfreaxx 5 months ago
@RustySacks Honestly, whats ruining the Chili Peppers albums is and has been the Chili Peppers
billywitchdocter 4 months ago
@billywitchdocter well I mean sonically
RustySacks 4 months ago
@RustySacks And I meant that the Chili Peppers suck at making music. Though you have a good point.
billywitchdocter 4 months ago
@billywitchdocter haha to each his or her own :)
RustySacks 4 months ago
Thanks for uploading! Love this mix, much better than the original one.
1994HAKON 6 months ago
@1994HAKON No problem! I'm keeping up to date with the "Rush news" to see when Richard Chycki has completed remastering the album in its entirety. (He has the 'Vapor Trails' remixes to do, the 'Time Machine Tour [Live]' mixing to do, and then the rest of 'Clockwork Angels' to do. The guy sure has a lot on his plate.) Check out the 'One Little Victory [Remix]' since that's the other official remix - that is if you haven't heard it yet.
RadeonZero 6 months ago
Wow A big difference on the mix. Love this song , sounds even better.
cylonace 6 months ago
@cylonace Hey no problem. I uploaded this and "One Little Victory [Remix]" from 'Retrospective III' for peoples enjoyment. The two remixes are as well to appear on the entirety of the remix of the album that will be done by Richard Chycki. To anyone that thinks it sounds "lifeless" or "worse", you need to get your ears checked in my opinion. Hah. Anyways, glad to hear you enjoyed it!
RadeonZero 6 months ago
Genius. I think the album would of done better if it had originally been mixed like this. So much more room for everything to breathe, better clarity, etc.
pineapplepeanuts 7 months ago
@pineapplepeanuts Agreed. Rich Chycki is remastering the entire album (confirmed by the band.) He did a great job with 'Earthshine' and 'One Little Victory', the remixes were so well percieved they decided that they'd let him remix the entire thing.
RadeonZero 7 months ago
@RadeonZero Hope they make it available. I'd buy it again. Whoever mixed it the first time took a crap on Rush's legacy, and it was at a critical time for the band. Also was the year I graduated, so its a special album to me ;-) Very inspirational lyrics and music.
pineapplepeanuts 7 months ago
@pineapplepeanuts It is confirmed for remaster with Chycki. I double checked. But, it was mainly on the person setting the - recording settings, and then Geddy and Alex, admittedly. The mixer should never have let Geddy mix it in the ways he did, he should've said unacceptable, and then he should've made them take more time, which was on Alex's behalf, Alex just wanted to hit the road again ASAP. And believe me, you're not the only one waiting for the entire album remaster.
RadeonZero 7 months ago
@RadeonZero Oh Geddy and Alex did it? Haha...that's unfortunate. Can't wait for the remaster, might breathe new life into an album otherwise full of great performances and songwriting. Really was compromised by a horrible mix, I'm sorry to say.
pineapplepeanuts 7 months ago
this sounds soo much better compared to the original! (at least in my opinion)
waffelcone 8 months ago
@waffelcone You can thank Richard Chycki. He also mixed "R30", "Snakes & Arrows", "Snakes & Arrows [Live]", and is now mixing "Clockwork Angels." He'll be completely remastering "Vapor Trails" as well. This and 'One Little Victory [Remix]' are just mild (seemingly) examples. Seeing 'Ghost Rider' mixed and mastered properly will be amazing to see.
RadeonZero 8 months ago
@RadeonZero okay cool, thanks. yeah i'd love to hear ghost rider, as well as the rest of the album. and he does a very good job...caravan and BU2B sound amazing
waffelcone 7 months ago
@waffelcone 'Caravan' and 'BU2B' in a engineer perspective sound like crap. The loudness war took its toll on the songs horribly, and it was admitted. Rush had stated to going back to remix the songs so they didn't sound, as is. I can agree, if the distortions from the peaks being pushed so high in mastering weren't there, the sound would be excellent! Rich did great in the mixing, just to bad the mastering engineer after Rich was done is being forced to push the peaks so high.
RadeonZero 7 months ago