This classic race gives a good example of what would likely occur if Zenyatta took on Secretariat, both in form. Watch Cougar come from way back to a thundering close third behind Riva Ridge. A great, Zenyatta-like run but by this time Secretariat was already well on his way to smashing the unofficial mile and a quarter world record, having already broken the mile and one eighth mile world record at the post.
@eckythimble One example how fast that Santa Anita track was when SB ran his WR 1:57 4/5. The Bid went through the mile in 1:32 4/5. Relaunch was in 2nd with a 1:33 flat 1 mile. Flying Paster was the 2nd place finsher in a time of 1:58 2/5 time for the 1 1/4 mile. He came within 1/5 of a second of tying Noor WR that The Bid broke in that race. No way the Bid or Paster would have ran that time on a Belmont Park track like Big Red did. The Bid & Paster were 4 yrs. at the time.
@eckythimble Very important to note that Sec, while setting a WR in this race, was absolutely nowhere near his TC form. Also, Cougar II would never had started his charge that soon if it was a longer race. Zenyatta did the same thing in hugging the rail and making a very measured move to the outside with a very specific distance remaining in her. Sec showed in the KD he could make a charge of immeasurable distance. Even champions horses could not/cannot do the same.
Why did not Turcotte hit big Red with a whip after coming out of the turn? I tell you why. As Whitney Tower said Turcotte knew he had plenty of horse left in him even after running the 1st 6 furlongs in 1:09 2/5 with only 4 workouts in 2 wks. after being off for 6 wks coming off a serous illness that would have put most stakes horses out for the yr. yet not in top form he pulled away for a world record. Charles Hatton said Laurin never did get to the bottom of him. That is hard to imagine.
Only a handful of athletes in history had the presence of dominance among other elites. There's a particular swagger that demands a sort of reverential treatment by their competition. The moment they are on the field, the court, the ring, or even the track, the most finely tuned athletes submit and give space to allow greatness through-Babe Ruth, Michael Jordan, Muhammad Ali, SECRETARIAT. It's almost magical.
I remember seeing an interview (somewhere) by Riva Ridge's jockey where he said he thought he had a shot at it in the turn and then he saw a red nose in the corner of his right eye and it was then that knew he was riding for second. Just unreal
Amazing race. A 3/4 fraction of 1:09 and 1 among 4 horses. WR at 1:45 and 2 with RR at, roughly, !;46 and Cougar II at, roughly, 1:46 and 1. Hand-ridden and pulling up @ 1:57 and 4 for 10 furlongs. Simply unheard of!!!
@bbmtge Also remember my good man that Cougar II has the second fastest 7 furlong of all time in 1:39 1/5 And R.R. still has the fastest 1 3/16 time of all time in1:52 2/5 in which Secretariat broke here unoffically. He ran 1:51 3/5 for the 1 3/16 mile pulling up and a 1:39 2/5 or possibly a 1:39 1/5 7 furlongs in this race. According to Andy Beyer is was not in top form like he was in his T..C. races.
@bbmtge You mentioned in a previous comment that Sec was so versatile on the track, able to win from any position (he really was!). I'm wondering why Turcotte didn't take him right to the lead at the Woodward, especially considering the slow pace. Lauren thought this tactic would certainly have maximized the colt's chances in the race. Instead he just got bogged down in that initial pace and wasn't able to turn it on at the stretch. Anyway he showed at MOW what a fluke loss that was!
@liszt1186 I missed this post. You make a great point. I think, simply, that Sec was worn down as he never fully recovered from his virus, ran the MC two weeks prior and was completely unprepared for the 1 1/2 mile distance. Key word here is VIRUS. Funny how so much criticism was laid on the horse, though he ran ~2:26 and 3/5th's in the WW. However, Prove Out ran an awesome race with the last 3 quarter fractions run at 24 seconds each!!! PO still has the 2nd fastest 1 1/2 miles on dirt...con
@liszt1186 What is interesting about PO's fall of "73 campaign is that he (from memory) set a stakes record at Saratoga for 7 furlongs, a track record at Belmont for 1 1/16th miles, ran the 2nd fastest 1 1/2 miles in history and the only horse to run the 2 mile Jockey Gold Cup faster was the great Kelso...and in that race, PO hit the rail!!! PO defeated Sec, Forego and Rive Ridge that summer/fall. Not too shabby, huh? Jerkins brought out the best in a horse that had been given up on by everyone.
He was off 6 weeks before this race. Whitney Tower said he was a week away from peak form. He carried so much muscle he needed to work fast before a race to be sharp mentally And physically so said Steve Haskins. He worked 5 furlongs in 57 flat And 1:08 4/5 going 6 furlongs. Laurin knew he was ready but still not in peak form. Taking the long route he still had a wolrd record And wasn't picked up nose until just before the last 1/16 mile to go on a track that did not fancy R.R. nor Cougar.
@rscarbro100 those workouts, then this race... came on end of 3 to 4 wks of sweating out a 103 temp and blood virus that incubated BEFORE the Whitney, thus the loss. Turcotte said any other horse wld've been out for the season. Trng for Whitney Turcotte knew something wrong. After the 1:34 mile wkout T said he didn't believe that time bec Sec wasn't right. Acc to The Horse God Built, T begged Lucien not to race him but Lucien said he'd get someone else to ride if T didn't.
@bon1042 Sept. 12 Laurin put the Zinger into him, Went 5 panels in 57 flat galloping out 6 panels in 1:08 Just 1/5 off the track record. This was 3 days before the race. Laurin made public he needed another week.. He was forced to drive 4 workouts into him in 2 weeks. That would have ruined a ordinary horse. He improved off each of those workouts & came back almost as fit as he was for the Derby. What a Hoss.
@theoryallogist Without the intenet, events like these were much bigger. National television was all we had, and it took a lot to get everyone in one place for a race.
It is interesting that Secretariat carried the second colours (white cap). Any idea why that was, consdiering he had earlier that season become the most convincing triple crown winner in history?
Secreatariat beat 4 champion horses here in this race in world record time. Breaking that record by 4/5 of a second.. What other horse ever beat so many champions in one race & were older than him?? He made pigeons of the field.
Eddie Arcaro rode the best in his time. Whirlaway & Citation two T.C. winners. Rode Kelso, Assualt after he won his T.C.. & Nashua to name a few. With all these rides on great horses he still rated Secretariat as the best he ever seen. That about seals it.
Hey, was that Onion Secretariat passed here well before going into the turn? Was that the same Onion that beat him in the Whitney? Bye, bye Onion. I'm not sick here here good buddy & not running a fever. See you later. I think I will set a world record & post a unoffical time for a 1 1/4 mile in 1:57 4/5 'pullin up'. Now take that.(smile)
If this race was a 1 1/2 mile his time would have been better than the Belmont. He went through the 1 1/4 mile in 1:57 4/5 'pullin up'. & would have been done on a 'Wet Fast' track like Whitney Tower said. Yelp, thats a full 2 seconds & another tick faster going through the 1 1/4 mile post 'pulling up' than he did in the Belmont in 1:59 flat. WOW
Many people, because of the fame of Secretariat, may not know that other than Seretariat having won the Triple Crown in 1973, that the horse that ran 2nd to him in this race, his stablemate Riva Ridge, won 2 of the 3 Triple Crown races himself just a year prior to Secretariat in 1972. Winning the 72' Kentucky Derby, and the 72' Belmont Stakes. He ran 4th in the 1972 Preakness Stakes. Many believe because heavy rain's, prior to the race, caused a muddy track.
@GBeret83 Excelent point. RR could not run in the mud. Further, the credentials in this race, aside from Sec...RR 1971 Eclipse Award 2YO, 1974 Eclipse Award - Older Horse. RR still holds a share of the wrodl record, on dirt, at 1 3/16ths mile. Key To The Mint...1972 Eclipse Award YO. Obviously, they are, in this race 4YO. Sec carried 3 lbs over scale at 124 and RR 127. A great filed, a great race and a spectacular performance by a still not healthy BIG RED!!!
@marysueeasteregg Kennedy Road was indeed a good one, winner of the Queen's Plate, the Derby of Canada in 1971. Went head to head with Secretariat in Big Red's final race at Woodbine until unable to keep up the pace. What more is there to say about Secretariat though? Even as kids we knew we were seeing something special at the time, that we haven't seen since.
Notice how Secretariat after going real wide in that last turn heading to the strecth & all the way through the strecth never was touched by Turcotte. Poor Rive Ridge was whipped silly by Eddie Maple to no avail. And Big Red "galloped out" another 1/8 mile & was clocked in 1:57 4/5 for a 1 1/4 mile distance. A monster of a Hoss.
Most all races he was in last or far behind. Always passing them horses, going real wide in turns & when he won no horse came within 2 lengths of him. Never went after a world or track record except near the end of the Belmont & then Ron never laid a hand on him.Hardly ever had a whip to him. How many times have you seen horses whipped like silly coming down the strecth. Not Secretariat. The only workout where he went all out was the 3/8 mile. Broke records in workouts & pulling up.
Sham was getting spanked crazy during the Preakness stretch run and Turcotte "has his whip put away" as Chic called it. When Eddie Maple rode Big Red in his last race I think Turcotte warned him against using the whip as well. How do you turbocharge a supercharged engine anyway.
Sometimes I think Sec ran faster in training than in the actual race. Shows he was only asked to do what was necessary to win the race. We will never know what he was capable of. As far as his legendary durability...the 1973 TC ruined Sham. It was simply too much. This is something that often gets overlooked..the fact that Sec set record after record..was asked to run 3 races in some 21 days...truly one of a kind.
@bbmtge His only race he led wire to wire was in the Belmont. Most all the races he had in his career was trailng fall back in the field. It was passing all them horses & most of the time going far wide into the last turns & no horse when he won came within 2 lengths of him. Hardly ever whipped, never went after a track or world record. Not even in the Belmont until the last 1/16 of a mile or less. Even then Turcotte never laid a hand on him.
I think he the Gotham was the frist race he led wire-to-wire. I believe he was clocked at the 3/4 fraction at 1:08 and change. I think he galloped out at 1:33 and 3/5ths. In any event, he could run from the front and burn the lungs of the competition in blazing 3/4 times or simply track you down methodically and coast to victory. As always, the greatest...one of a kind. I am so grateful that I was able to watch hi as a kid and now see him whenever I want on youtube. Hats off to CF1970!
@bbmtge According to the DRF chart he was 3 lengths behind at the 1/4 & 1/2 post. He took the lead before he got to the 3/4 post. His time was 1:33 2/5.
@bbmtge He did not lead wire to wire in the Gotham. He was 3 lengths back at the 1/4 & 1/2 mile post. He got in front by a head at the 3/4 mile post according to DRF chart. Watch the video of that race & you can hear the announcer say Secretariat is now in front at that point.
You're absolutely right. A lot of people think/thought that Sham was injured during the Belmont, but he in fact hurt himself in July, training for possibly another showdown with Secretariat. It's really too bad they didn't meet again.
I always thought SEC. came out of the gate slow & picked up steam further he went. Didn't know he was a super speedster from the gate until today. Reading article by William Nack he remember back on Mar. 14, 1973 a 3/8 mile morning "workout". Lucien told Ronnie to let him roll. Lucien with stop watch in hand clocked him in 33 25. After he called Watson in the high overhead tower the electronic timer read 32 2/5. A full second faster. Fastest workout in N.Y. history. 10.8 sec. each furlong ran.
Another thing as well to remember. This was a top notch field of horses. The rest of the horses were champions and or track record holders themselves with Onion actually beating Big Red prior to this although SEC was not himself with a fever.
Posthumous kudos to Onion. I almost shed a tear when they brought the old gelding back and entered him in a claming race. To me that was a travesty for such a game little horse. Just glad he got to live out his life on Hobeau Farms in the end.
The World Record for the 1 1/8 mile that still exist is held by Simply Majestic a 4 year old in 1988 at Golden Gate race track near San Francisco. He was carring 114 lbs. Ran it in a time of 1:45 flat. Most say that golden Gate is the fastest or one of the fastest tracks in the world. Big Red here carried 124 lbs I believe. I could say Big Red time here would have been as fast for better than 1:45 flat if he was not slowed up coming upon Riva Ridge rear-end.
Big Red din't reach the 1 1/8 mile post in 1:45 2/5 in his Belmont race. He did it here going real wide into the last turn. Really, this race was even better than all his races including running another 1/8 mile puling up to reach a time for the 1 1/4 distance in 1:57 4/5. What a Freight Train.
Big Red's trainer said that Ruffian could have been better. Now that shows how good she was. I love both and Easy Goer and Rachel are very special as well.
I'm jealous of you Knugabug. Wish I was there. Whitney Tower a journalist & president of the National Horse Museum was there too.
He stated in a article he wrote. After an all-night rain, the sun and wind dried out the track to the point where it was wet-fast, as they say in racing circles. As many know that track was slower than a fast track. Thats even more amazing.
I was there. It was awesome. Afterburners as usual. The only horse I've seen like that was in '74 named Pembles that exploded at The Big A like a rocket at 6. You don't want to know what it was like at The Belmont with Big Red....the noise was like a jet engine when Turcotte put the boy at warp speed.
3 races in some 23 days...a world record here, still existing track record for the Man O'War and 2nd place finish where he does not seem himself yet still run a great time in the slop. 2 mile and a half races and the MC at 1 1/8. Simply incredible, mythical, legendary.
The 1 mile distance time was ran in 1:33. He was within 3/5 of a second off Dr. Fager record for a mile here & still had some ground left to go. Also looks like Secretariat had to be held up somewhat from keep hitting Riva in the rear or he would have gotten to the 1 mile post even faster & the time pulling up at the 1 1/4 mile post would have been better than 157: & change.
I have seen the Bid's record. Very impressive indeed. But, the Bid was not a 1 1/2 mile horse. Delp knew that & might be the reason he never ran him again at that distance. To be a gaint of a horse you gotta be a long distance runner as well. Bid was not but Secretariat was.
As 3 year olds Secretariat out performed Bid especially in the big 3 TC races.
Must remind this one more time. SEC ran a unoffical time at a 1 1/4 distance in 157.80 in this race as a 3 year old, Bid was 4 years old.
I have watched all the videos of all the great ones on you tube. Secretariat is the greatest horse of all time. But a close second has to be Spectacular Bid. The MAIN reason The Bid does not get his respect is he did not win the TC. I would like to think that the general public would rank him well into the top five of all time greats. People please take a look at The Bid's races on here. He does not get the respect he deserves.
What wonderful and heady days this must have been for Penny Tweedy/Chenery....your two KY Derby winners coming in 1 and 2...It makes my heart feel great to see them side by side and in stride around that bend....
What's truly amazing also is Turcotte hand riding Secretariat in this race! Has anyone considered that Big Red's finish here would put him 15 lengths in front of Rachel Alexandra's mile and 1/8th in the Woodward??? That's how great Big Red was!!!
Best part about this race? Stablemates going all out against each other. In deep stretch Eddie Maple is putting the whip to RR to try to stay with Big Red. Phillip Morris initially sponsored this race as a match race between the stablemates but opened it up to other horses after both lost their prep races prior to this, as per wikipedia.
36 years later we look back and he seems almost supernatural now. I remember them saying we wouldn't see another like him for 75 years and so far they've been right.
Something I hadn't noticed before, in light of Secretariat's unbelievable time in this race, at around :42 of the video as the lead pack is bunching up, Turcotte is having to pull up and slow down so as not to run up Riva's rear end. I just can't imagine his time and final fractions had he just kept going!!!
Here's my favorite Riva Ridge giving his stablemate, the great Secretariat, a run for his money. He gave Big Red all he could handle that day. To only lose by two in the last 300yds. by the all time superhorse is not that bad. You could tell he wasn't intimidated by Big Red. I love both these horses. Could you imagine owning both these two greats in back to back years! Awesome!
i know man i agree with you big red is by far the best horse ever a horse like that comes along once in a lifetime or lets say once every 50 years maybe
Perhaps the greatest field ever assembled for a single race. Five champions competed: Secretariat, Riva Ridge, Key to the Mint, Kennedy Road, and Cougar II. This may be Secretariat's greatest race.
Riva Ridge and Big Red, how is that for an entry? WOW. Was there any money in the pool not on #2 in that race???? lol
I dont know who is greater, Man O War or Secretariat, but I sure love watching Big Red run (amazing they both had the same nickname), Thanks for posting!!
Could not agree with you more. I believe the time in that race was 1:48 and change. That clearly shows, as was later disclosed, that something was wrong (health) with Sec. This race, like the Belmont amongst others, shows that Sec seemed to run on a different track. With veritable ease we see another world record; especially after a very slow start out of the gate. Watch how, at approx. 1:30 he seperates from the field. Sub 1:45 time if he wanted. The greatest!!!
Big Red won in 1:45.2 and the mile fraction was 1:33. Pretty awesome huh? He pulled up at the mile and a quarter in 1:57 and change. Now that's truly unbelievable!!!
i was too young to appreciate the greatestness of Secretariat. The best horse I ever saw was named SEATTLE SLEW. BIG and very BLACK. Killed affirmed 2x;s. The race against Exceller shows how great he was
This world record performance after coming off an illness, training poorly, where Lucien Lauren drilled four hard workouts into him within two weeks before the race. That would have ruined any other horse. Secretariat responds with a world record 145 & 2 galloping out the mile 1/4 in 157 & 2!! Secretariat out sprinted the sprinters and out ran the stayers. Secretariat - the greatest horse to step on the track.
That's just telling it like it is! What an incredible horse! Mark my words, he's so great, we'll yet see a descendant that will bring back shades of the great Big Red! I can't wait!
Hi. According to the Daily Racing Form Past Performance chart I have in front of me, Secretariat was listed as a half length behind the 3/4 pole leader, stablemate Riva Ridge, who clocked in at 1:09 1/5 (1:09.20-39), so Big Red ran somewhere between 1:09 1.5/5 (1:09.30) to 1:09 2/5 (1:09.49).
Stop the vid at about 28 seconds & I'll tell you exactly what Turcotte's thinking......"My big guy is running easy, gliding, floating, and we're eating up the lead. When the time's right, I'll just let the reigns out a notch, and we'll see you in the winner's circle."
wow! How much more could a racing stable ask for , The Meadow Stables were certainly Blessed those two years in racing!, but then so were we! Oh the Glory Days of yesteryears! How I long for thee. Thanks for keeping the memories alive!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
1. Jim, welcome to YouTube, and without debating which horse was better, I agree with many of your excellent points concerning Spectacular Bid's amazing talent. I love The Bid, and I've been touting him all along as the second best horse of all time, so we are at loggerheads, I'm afraid. Suffice it to say that I respectfully, but categorically disagree with your assessment of Big Red.
2. Secretariat's track conditions, losses and much more have been rehashed countless times here and on other videos, so take a look here and around YouTube and you will find out many more facts about Big Red. I simply don't have the time or desire to get into a debate about Secretariat again.
My personal list at 1 1/4 (post 1960, as my detailed knowledge of thoroughbred racing pre 1960 leaves me without enough subjective comparitive criteria to be valid) goes like this:
Youv'e got to be kidding. Secretariat ran much faster than the Bid in every triple crown race. If they ever raced head to head, I've got my money on Big Red. His motto: refuse to lose! Also, Seattle Slew killed in Affirmed when they went head to head. You need to rethink your rankings. Secreariat and Seatlle Slew 1 and 2!
Once again Big Red Shows his dominance & why he is the superhorse! Riva Ridge gave him a run for his money. Riva was always shadowed by his stablemate & rightfully so. Riva was an awesome horse! He's in my top 30 alltime favorite horses.
I know it sounds like sacrilege to some on the surface, but lay their pps down next to each other, then view each of their lifetime races a couple of times and it becomes very obvious that at the least, a genuine debate is in order. Using my personal criteria for thoroughbred greatness, Spectacular Bid comes out on top of Secretariat.
The Bid's only "bad" race was his Belmont, which,a s I mentioned earlier, was a display in greatness to me. Check out his race as a 3yo against the older Triple Crown winner Affirmed in 1979. Affirmed himself had attempted an older triple crown winner himself in Seattle Slew in 1978, having fared not as well as the Bid in such an endeavour. The Bids 4 yo campaign is unrivaled by any horse in history. The Bid set track and world records from 7 furlongs to 1 1/4 miles on BOTH coasts.
lightning fast as Secrectariat did. Secretariat's Preakness was probably more visually impressive than Bids. The Bid would have been a Triple Crown winner had it not been for the dismal ride given him in the Belmont. To enthuisiastically chase a no-hoper through brutal fractions, then, rubber legged from the task, almost come back at the horses that had passed him late was, to me, nearly as remarkable as Big Red's Belmont. TBC....
Wow! That last sentence is simply astounding in it's absurdness. You do understand that Sec ran his Belmont in WR time, a time that hasn't even been approached, on his own, right? If he'd been asked for anything, he would have run it even faster. He did all that and was not rubber legged at all. That claim is downright stupifying. Those "brutal" fractions you claim? Half in 47&3, and Bid was 3 behind! 3/4 1:11&1. Sec's were 46&1 and 1:09&4!!! Seriously, how do you expect to be taken seriously?
I kid you not. The reasoning would be manifold. I do not attempt to disparage Secretariat, he was one of the greatest thoroughbreds of all time. His legend and almost household name status simply happens to exceed his exceptional racing career. First, SB's race record was superior. I know, he didn't win the triple crown. His Derby was probably more impressive than Secretariats. I know, he didn't run the very fast time that Big Red did. however, he didn't have a track as suped up TBC...
The official opinion of the experts (and of course those who share it) is in Blood Horse top 10 Derbys. Secretariat's is number one, a relentless continual drive thru 1 1/4 mi, each quarter faster than previous rather than normal reverse due to tiring. His final quarter 35 yrs ago was 23 seconds flat.
Hi, sorry I inadvertently deleted your PM. Yes, after setting record 35 yrs ago of
1:45 2/5 in Marlboro Cup, he did the same time as Bid's 1 1/4 dirt record, I forget, 1:58 2/5? AND he did it PULLING up. Charles Hatton used to say "this sucker sets records pulling up!" And don't forget, Bid set record at age 4, Sec at 3.
bon, this race is fast becoming my favorite. It seems to take 18 seconds for Sec to gte his feet underneath of him. Then...boom...amazing how he closes and then takes over. A world record at both 1 1/8 and 1 1/4 miles. Simply unbelievable!!!
Yes, one snapshot of the two going across the finish line. I was at the Belmont Stakes earlier but couldn't get near the finish line....Secretariat looked like a jet coming down the stretch....the goosebumps on my arms never left for 15 minutes, Ron was riding him HARD to break that record. I met Ron years later and he told me it was like he wanted to keep going faster as he went down the strech, as almost as if he knew he was the best.
I was right there at the finish line with my Kodak camera at age 16. Those blinkers side by side were AMAZING! This was at time when the NYRA was full of fixed races, so, it was refreshing. Angel Cordero Jr. took lots of my money.
That's terrific! Do you still have the shots you took of that race? Witnessing that firsthand must have been quite a thrill! I can only imagine the excitement in the crowd. Big Red and Riva Ridge running together is one of my very favorite racing moments, ever.
Glad you're enjoying them. It was awesome to see Big Red and Riva race against each other here. I can only imagine them as stablemates; I read that Riva seemed very jealous of all the attention Secretariat received after his '73 Triple Crown blitz. Who can blame him?
Riva Ridge won his superb Belmont the previous year (1972).
Secretariat's cardiovascular system is similar to that found in Akhal-Tekés, probably a throwback from the thoroughbred roots. Another racehorse (don't know the name) from 150-200 years ago also showed the same trait and won everything, indeed many thoroughbreds can be traced back to him.
It would be an interesting experiment to develop a TB mark II but ATs are so rare now genetic diversity would be an issue.
All things considered including the class of the field, aside from the Belmont this may have been Secratariat's best race. Schooling Riva Ridge and Kennedy Road was surely no easy task, but he did take them to class that day!!
Yeah, just an incredible field for that race. And Secretariat handled them with such ease. I never saw Turcotte hurry him one bit. Never a second of panic or rush. He certainly made up for that loss to Onion, and check out the distance between Secratariat and Onion at the finish. Simply amazing.
This field was a top class one. Secretariat made these very fine group of racehorses(this field had more than 1 champion in it)look like they should be pulling milk wagons. Yes he would have been downright scary as a 4 yr. old!!
Lets be real BLADERUNNER, you comparing seattle slew to secretariat is like saying a mercedes is in the same class as a rolls royce, we all know there is a class difference seattle one of the greats of all time but different level.
I just cant believe people make these comparisons today and this is coming from a dr fager fanatic.
Lets give secretariat a little respect folks. Secretariat is unarguably the greatest thoroughbred champion that ever set a hoof on a racetrack,. This horse secretariat if i was a betting man. I would put everthing ive ever worked for on the line and be content, matched against anybody at any distance he would win.He did not carry the greatest weights, he never posessed the best record ever, but when he was at his best, when he began roar he was simply a freight train.
This was arguably the greatest field EVER assembled for a race. Counting Secretariat, there were FIVE champions in that race. No race before or since have had that many in a single race. Yet Secretariat demolished the field, setting a record that stood for something like 16 years. He was the greatest.
The five champions were Secretariat, Riva Ridge, Kennedy Road, Key to the Mint, and Cougar II. No other race has ever had this quality of a field, but because Secretariat was truly a genetic freak, he made the rest of the field look like mediocrities, which they certainly weren't.
Are ignorant people STILL talking about Secretariat's losses? Well, he nearly went down in his first race, coming in fourth. He was disqualified from bearing in on Stop the Music in the Champaign Stakes. He had an abscess on his lip in the Wood. He had a virus in the Whitney. Lucien Laurin didn't bother to train him for the Woodward. Secretariat was FAR superior to any horse before, then, or afterwards.
Unreal that the owner/trainer would run Secretariat under such circumstances... if something like that happened today, they would have to fend off the sharks. Totally irresponsible not to scratch an unsound horse, or to fail to train a horse.
Also, when Prove Out whipped Big Red, LL & Turcotte had many reasons, yet when Jerkins said they can settle the score in the JCGC, Big Red's connections didn't bite. Instead they ran Riva Ridge and Prove Out crushed him. Big Red was a great horse, but no better or worse as compared to Seattle Slew.
The last sentence of your comment is not true, and the implication that Sec's team "ducked" Prove Out is utterly ridiculous. Now, before you respond with mean-spirited irrelevancy, understand that cf doesn't stand for that here.
Jacinto Vasquez, who was astride Angle Light when that colt whipped Secretariat in the Wood, did a magnificent job in controlling a slow early pace, along with maneuvering Secretariat toward the rail, where he kept him for the last three-eighths of a mile while defeating him on Onion. Prove Out smacked Big Red and the excuses always fly- but it's racing! You can make a million excuses at any given time!
For goodness sake, the abscess WAS the reason he lost the Wood. Minimizing that factor is denying reality, because a few weeks later in the Derby a healthy Sec demolished Angle Light in record time. You seem to have a burr about this horse. What, you think Slew isn't recognized for the great champion he was?
I couldn't agree more. Secretariat's Whitney was a throw out race. He had a low grade fever that was ignored by Laurin despite the protestations of Turcotte.
Respectfully, Laurin was quite the stubborn man who cost Secretariat some of his defeats, without a doubt.
Hi BE, on Old Onion getting REAL Secretariat-also, fm 4/21 WdMml suffering w/abscess thru Triple Crown/3 records, Arl Invit 6/30 ($125,000 temptation)when he was supposed to rest, 8/4 Whitney w/Tucotte saying he wasn't right, 103 Fever/virus sweated out of him, LL trained him hard, then 9/15 MrlboCup set a world record, T said after Whitney/virus(weakens horse) any other horse wld have been out rest of yr! Then untrained 9/29 subd RR WdWrd, 10/8 MOW grass record, 10/28 CanIntl 1 5/8 2:41 4/5.
I wanted to clarify point of my post which is that given what Secretariat went thru bec of fever/virus thus losing Whitney and having to be scratched fm Travers bec of illness and recuperation time, Turcotte said any other horse wld've been out rest of yr, yet he came back, did 3 furlongs in 33+. Penny said Sec bit her so he must feel better. Then LL trained him hard and look what he did in Marlboro! I wanted to get all info in above to show he never got a rest after Belmont.
What is amazing about Sec is the way he was trained. Lauren understood that he needed, blazing works for his horse right before a race. That is more often than not the wrong way to condition a racehorse. Usually when a horse goes out for his final work before a race and goes lets say 57 & change for 5 F.(remember this is a work) everybody gasps and proclaims the horse just ran his race,and the trainer has screwed up. Sec for whatever reason thrived on this program. Really, this is very rare.
Do you think it cld have something to do with his size, that is his girth and "wide-sprung ribs" to hold the lungs and that 21-22 lb heart? I sometimes think bec of this "big engine" so to speak, it needed that much more "revving up" and that that is why he thrived on and maybe actually needed the zingers, to have that edge. 2 slow wkouts wrkng up to MOW and then being thrown into WdWrd, brkng trng pattern was why he lost it. He cld've won but he came back blowing, he wasn't fit.
I agree with you, bon. Secretariat's cardiovascular system was incredible, yet understandably demanding of fitness at the same time, to properly propel his enormous musculature as well. He really needed that hard workout shortly before a race to stay razor sharp and primed for run. With a big body like his, being "short" likely would have cost him a second or so on the track. That would be my guess at it.
That's great to see Riva Ridge run so well here. Reading Nack's book, I kind of felt bad for Riva and the way he declined in his 3 yr old year and the way in which Sec over shadowed him. Two of history's greatest in this one! One of my new favorite vids!
Agreed. Riva's performance here is heart-warming. He's one of my favourites, ever. Secretariat drove him to finish strongly, it's great how stablemates do that!
Hey CF ---when you watch this race look about 56-59 seconds in ----you can see Riva and Sec's heads bobbing as though they were twins...I also love when they reach the turn and they are driving stride for stride although each one leads with the opposite leg...What glorious, heady times they were for Meadow Stables...
It's wonderful how in synch they were in that short time frame. It's definitely one of the alltime highlights of racing for me. So fitting and it warms the cockles of my heart just thinking of it, let alone seeing it.
I just received my Mare's papers and have found that her Great Grandfather was Secretariat...this site was so awesome to watch..Calypsos Charm looks a lot like her great grandfather.
As I've stated previously, I'm not an expert on TB's, but it would seem to me that racing could be a little hard on a horse.....maybe even dangerous if pushed enough. So why would they continue to keep racing their investments against Big Red? Did they really think they had a chance? I guess some people are just stubborn and think the next time is MY time. Silly people. Nice video cf1970. Thanks.
It's a good thing he was retired in '73 because nobody would've wanted anything to do with him as a 4 yr old. I mean, after the Derby look at the small nature of the fields that he ran against for the most part. The Marlboro was a special event which had a rich purse, and so this quality field was convened.
A son of Secretariat, how old is he?? What's his name? What does he look like, who was dam?? Are you aware of Straight Flush story on Secretariatdot com, half brother of Secretariat, 32 yrs old, son of Riva by Somethingroyal, Sec's dam? READ IT, it's wonderful.
I still have the offical program...in those days it was about 4" X 9" and contained no past performances. And the tracks were 'quiet'... no annoying backround music.
CF-they may have been stablemates but even Penny commented that Riva was built completely different than our BIG BOY...It is great to see them running together...the 1972-1973 Derby winners .....what a time that had to be....
Hi, yes, and I read that was a loving heartwarming moment for Penny Chenery, her two champions, running together. Also read think Turcotte's brother, Rudy was on Riva and they could see difference in strides, Secretariat's being longer.
I see what you men, amazing, even those strong back legs, and he even has his white socks on the right legs, I fantasize being on jeopardy and final jeopardy question being... Sec had 3 white stockings, which leg was solid chestnut??
I couldn't believe that Tour's features being exactly the same on the right legs....His left front was solid....If you notice...Storm Cat seems to throw white on the legs of his progeny...a throwback to Sec I think...Gone West does it also...
This classic race gives a good example of what would likely occur if Zenyatta took on Secretariat, both in form. Watch Cougar come from way back to a thundering close third behind Riva Ridge. A great, Zenyatta-like run but by this time Secretariat was already well on his way to smashing the unofficial mile and a quarter world record, having already broken the mile and one eighth mile world record at the post.
eckythimble 1 month ago
@eckythimble One example how fast that Santa Anita track was when SB ran his WR 1:57 4/5. The Bid went through the mile in 1:32 4/5. Relaunch was in 2nd with a 1:33 flat 1 mile. Flying Paster was the 2nd place finsher in a time of 1:58 2/5 time for the 1 1/4 mile. He came within 1/5 of a second of tying Noor WR that The Bid broke in that race. No way the Bid or Paster would have ran that time on a Belmont Park track like Big Red did. The Bid & Paster were 4 yrs. at the time.
rscarbro100 1 month ago
@eckythimble Very important to note that Sec, while setting a WR in this race, was absolutely nowhere near his TC form. Also, Cougar II would never had started his charge that soon if it was a longer race. Zenyatta did the same thing in hugging the rail and making a very measured move to the outside with a very specific distance remaining in her. Sec showed in the KD he could make a charge of immeasurable distance. Even champions horses could not/cannot do the same.
bbmtge 1 month ago in playlist Sec - MCup
YAY! The Meadow took home a bucket-o-money that day!!! ♥
kwgrid 3 months ago
Why did not Turcotte hit big Red with a whip after coming out of the turn? I tell you why. As Whitney Tower said Turcotte knew he had plenty of horse left in him even after running the 1st 6 furlongs in 1:09 2/5 with only 4 workouts in 2 wks. after being off for 6 wks coming off a serous illness that would have put most stakes horses out for the yr. yet not in top form he pulled away for a world record. Charles Hatton said Laurin never did get to the bottom of him. That is hard to imagine.
rscarbro100 6 months ago
Only a handful of athletes in history had the presence of dominance among other elites. There's a particular swagger that demands a sort of reverential treatment by their competition. The moment they are on the field, the court, the ring, or even the track, the most finely tuned athletes submit and give space to allow greatness through-Babe Ruth, Michael Jordan, Muhammad Ali, SECRETARIAT. It's almost magical.
casterTroy1941 6 months ago
I remember seeing an interview (somewhere) by Riva Ridge's jockey where he said he thought he had a shot at it in the turn and then he saw a red nose in the corner of his right eye and it was then that knew he was riding for second. Just unreal
ItsCappyBitches 7 months ago
Where is "ONION"? I think I saw "ONION" cross the finish line about 12 lengths BEHIND SECRETARIAT.
MelC54 8 months ago
Amazing race. A 3/4 fraction of 1:09 and 1 among 4 horses. WR at 1:45 and 2 with RR at, roughly, !;46 and Cougar II at, roughly, 1:46 and 1. Hand-ridden and pulling up @ 1:57 and 4 for 10 furlongs. Simply unheard of!!!
bbmtge 9 months ago
@bbmtge Also remember my good man that Cougar II has the second fastest 7 furlong of all time in 1:39 1/5 And R.R. still has the fastest 1 3/16 time of all time in1:52 2/5 in which Secretariat broke here unoffically. He ran 1:51 3/5 for the 1 3/16 mile pulling up and a 1:39 2/5 or possibly a 1:39 1/5 7 furlongs in this race. According to Andy Beyer is was not in top form like he was in his T..C. races.
rscarbro100 9 months ago
@bbmtge You mentioned in a previous comment that Sec was so versatile on the track, able to win from any position (he really was!). I'm wondering why Turcotte didn't take him right to the lead at the Woodward, especially considering the slow pace. Lauren thought this tactic would certainly have maximized the colt's chances in the race. Instead he just got bogged down in that initial pace and wasn't able to turn it on at the stretch. Anyway he showed at MOW what a fluke loss that was!
liszt1186 9 months ago
@liszt1186 I missed this post. You make a great point. I think, simply, that Sec was worn down as he never fully recovered from his virus, ran the MC two weeks prior and was completely unprepared for the 1 1/2 mile distance. Key word here is VIRUS. Funny how so much criticism was laid on the horse, though he ran ~2:26 and 3/5th's in the WW. However, Prove Out ran an awesome race with the last 3 quarter fractions run at 24 seconds each!!! PO still has the 2nd fastest 1 1/2 miles on dirt...con
bbmtge 7 months ago
@liszt1186 What is interesting about PO's fall of "73 campaign is that he (from memory) set a stakes record at Saratoga for 7 furlongs, a track record at Belmont for 1 1/16th miles, ran the 2nd fastest 1 1/2 miles in history and the only horse to run the 2 mile Jockey Gold Cup faster was the great Kelso...and in that race, PO hit the rail!!! PO defeated Sec, Forego and Rive Ridge that summer/fall. Not too shabby, huh? Jerkins brought out the best in a horse that had been given up on by everyone.
bbmtge 7 months ago
Fabulous race by Secretariat! I love watching him run. It's effortless and beautiful! Thanks for posting! He really is the greatest of all time.
redtrakehner 9 months ago
what a great race by R.R......he was 1st from the horses, and second to a machine :)
gajdijaa 11 months ago
Wow! Thanks for posting.
Dactuck 1 year ago
The money was on Cougar II that's why the jockey held him for the first half mile. There is no excuse for the break..
rodd7 1 year ago
Quite amazing. There is more talent running in this race than this year's Classic....by far.
Sportsguy574 1 year ago
SECRETARIAT U ROK
HorsesRcul 1 year ago
He was off 6 weeks before this race. Whitney Tower said he was a week away from peak form. He carried so much muscle he needed to work fast before a race to be sharp mentally And physically so said Steve Haskins. He worked 5 furlongs in 57 flat And 1:08 4/5 going 6 furlongs. Laurin knew he was ready but still not in peak form. Taking the long route he still had a wolrd record And wasn't picked up nose until just before the last 1/16 mile to go on a track that did not fancy R.R. nor Cougar.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@rscarbro100 those workouts, then this race... came on end of 3 to 4 wks of sweating out a 103 temp and blood virus that incubated BEFORE the Whitney, thus the loss. Turcotte said any other horse wld've been out for the season. Trng for Whitney Turcotte knew something wrong. After the 1:34 mile wkout T said he didn't believe that time bec Sec wasn't right. Acc to The Horse God Built, T begged Lucien not to race him but Lucien said he'd get someone else to ride if T didn't.
bon1042 1 year ago
@bon1042 Sept. 12 Laurin put the Zinger into him, Went 5 panels in 57 flat galloping out 6 panels in 1:08 Just 1/5 off the track record. This was 3 days before the race. Laurin made public he needed another week.. He was forced to drive 4 workouts into him in 2 weeks. That would have ruined a ordinary horse. He improved off each of those workouts & came back almost as fit as he was for the Derby. What a Hoss.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
If they would have had the Breeder's Cup in those days, this would have been The Classic.
MegaObserver1 1 year ago
i wish i was alive to see this... its kind of depressing being born so late :S
Looks like a great horse.
theoryallogist 1 year ago
@theoryallogist Without the intenet, events like these were much bigger. National television was all we had, and it took a lot to get everyone in one place for a race.
The Marlboro Cup was a great race.
BettorOffSingle 11 months ago
It is interesting that Secretariat carried the second colours (white cap). Any idea why that was, consdiering he had earlier that season become the most convincing triple crown winner in history?
CONSIDERABLYMORE1 1 year ago
I like the close by the 4 horse staring around 1:09. Great finish. As for Sec...looks like a jog in the park!!!
bbmtge 1 year ago
Look at the burst of speed coming off the turn in the home stretch Secretariat put on! WOW...
RAV52 1 year ago
i am great fan of horse races and this is amazing race.. woohhh what a horse.. my dream is to have a horse like this..
41ash 1 year ago
Secreatariat beat 4 champion horses here in this race in world record time. Breaking that record by 4/5 of a second.. What other horse ever beat so many champions in one race & were older than him?? He made pigeons of the field.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
Eddie Arcaro rode the best in his time. Whirlaway & Citation two T.C. winners. Rode Kelso, Assualt after he won his T.C.. & Nashua to name a few. With all these rides on great horses he still rated Secretariat as the best he ever seen. That about seals it.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
Hey, was that Onion Secretariat passed here well before going into the turn? Was that the same Onion that beat him in the Whitney? Bye, bye Onion. I'm not sick here here good buddy & not running a fever. See you later. I think I will set a world record & post a unoffical time for a 1 1/4 mile in 1:57 4/5 'pullin up'. Now take that.(smile)
rscarbro100 1 year ago
If this race was a 1 1/2 mile his time would have been better than the Belmont. He went through the 1 1/4 mile in 1:57 4/5 'pullin up'. & would have been done on a 'Wet Fast' track like Whitney Tower said. Yelp, thats a full 2 seconds & another tick faster going through the 1 1/4 mile post 'pulling up' than he did in the Belmont in 1:59 flat. WOW
rscarbro100 1 year ago
Many people, because of the fame of Secretariat, may not know that other than Seretariat having won the Triple Crown in 1973, that the horse that ran 2nd to him in this race, his stablemate Riva Ridge, won 2 of the 3 Triple Crown races himself just a year prior to Secretariat in 1972. Winning the 72' Kentucky Derby, and the 72' Belmont Stakes. He ran 4th in the 1972 Preakness Stakes. Many believe because heavy rain's, prior to the race, caused a muddy track.
GBeret83 1 year ago
@GBeret83 Excelent point. RR could not run in the mud. Further, the credentials in this race, aside from Sec...RR 1971 Eclipse Award 2YO, 1974 Eclipse Award - Older Horse. RR still holds a share of the wrodl record, on dirt, at 1 3/16ths mile. Key To The Mint...1972 Eclipse Award YO. Obviously, they are, in this race 4YO. Sec carried 3 lbs over scale at 124 and RR 127. A great filed, a great race and a spectacular performance by a still not healthy BIG RED!!!
bbmtge 1 year ago
@bbmtge You missed some credentials. : )
Kennedy Road would retire with 5 Canadian championships, and
be inducted into the Canadian Racing Hall of Fame. Cougar II had been Am.
turf champ in '72, and is in the Am. Racing Hall of Fame. I remember Cougar
with fondness; he'd come out without a lead pony, as many overseas horses do.
This was one of the strongest fields I've ever seen.
marysueeasteregg 1 year ago
@marysueeasteregg Kennedy Road was indeed a good one, winner of the Queen's Plate, the Derby of Canada in 1971. Went head to head with Secretariat in Big Red's final race at Woodbine until unable to keep up the pace. What more is there to say about Secretariat though? Even as kids we knew we were seeing something special at the time, that we haven't seen since.
secordman 8 months ago
@GBeret83 Pardon my spelling. Old keyboard!!!
bbmtge 1 year ago
Notice how Secretariat after going real wide in that last turn heading to the strecth & all the way through the strecth never was touched by Turcotte. Poor Rive Ridge was whipped silly by Eddie Maple to no avail. And Big Red "galloped out" another 1/8 mile & was clocked in 1:57 4/5 for a 1 1/4 mile distance. A monster of a Hoss.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
Most all races he was in last or far behind. Always passing them horses, going real wide in turns & when he won no horse came within 2 lengths of him. Never went after a world or track record except near the end of the Belmont & then Ron never laid a hand on him.Hardly ever had a whip to him. How many times have you seen horses whipped like silly coming down the strecth. Not Secretariat. The only workout where he went all out was the 3/8 mile. Broke records in workouts & pulling up.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
Sham was getting spanked crazy during the Preakness stretch run and Turcotte "has his whip put away" as Chic called it. When Eddie Maple rode Big Red in his last race I think Turcotte warned him against using the whip as well. How do you turbocharge a supercharged engine anyway.
joefederico 1 year ago
Sometimes I think Sec ran faster in training than in the actual race. Shows he was only asked to do what was necessary to win the race. We will never know what he was capable of. As far as his legendary durability...the 1973 TC ruined Sham. It was simply too much. This is something that often gets overlooked..the fact that Sec set record after record..was asked to run 3 races in some 21 days...truly one of a kind.
bbmtge 1 year ago
@bbmtge His only race he led wire to wire was in the Belmont. Most all the races he had in his career was trailng fall back in the field. It was passing all them horses & most of the time going far wide into the last turns & no horse when he won came within 2 lengths of him. Hardly ever whipped, never went after a track or world record. Not even in the Belmont until the last 1/16 of a mile or less. Even then Turcotte never laid a hand on him.
Right, we never know what he was capable of.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
I think he the Gotham was the frist race he led wire-to-wire. I believe he was clocked at the 3/4 fraction at 1:08 and change. I think he galloped out at 1:33 and 3/5ths. In any event, he could run from the front and burn the lungs of the competition in blazing 3/4 times or simply track you down methodically and coast to victory. As always, the greatest...one of a kind. I am so grateful that I was able to watch hi as a kid and now see him whenever I want on youtube. Hats off to CF1970!
bbmtge 1 year ago
bbmtge, thank you kindly for your comments. I appreciate them very much.
cf1970 1 year ago
@bbmtge According to the DRF chart he was 3 lengths behind at the 1/4 & 1/2 post. He took the lead before he got to the 3/4 post. His time was 1:33 2/5.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@bbmtge He did not lead wire to wire in the Gotham. He was 3 lengths back at the 1/4 & 1/2 mile post. He got in front by a head at the 3/4 mile post according to DRF chart. Watch the video of that race & you can hear the announcer say Secretariat is now in front at that point.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
actually the TC didnt ruin Sham. He was injured in training later in the year
televin 1 year ago
You're absolutely right. A lot of people think/thought that Sham was injured during the Belmont, but he in fact hurt himself in July, training for possibly another showdown with Secretariat. It's really too bad they didn't meet again.
cf1970 1 year ago
also 3 races in 35 days
televin 1 year ago
It's important to have accuracy. Thank you for your input.
cf1970 1 year ago
I always thought SEC. came out of the gate slow & picked up steam further he went. Didn't know he was a super speedster from the gate until today. Reading article by William Nack he remember back on Mar. 14, 1973 a 3/8 mile morning "workout". Lucien told Ronnie to let him roll. Lucien with stop watch in hand clocked him in 33 25. After he called Watson in the high overhead tower the electronic timer read 32 2/5. A full second faster. Fastest workout in N.Y. history. 10.8 sec. each furlong ran.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
Another thing as well to remember. This was a top notch field of horses. The rest of the horses were champions and or track record holders themselves with Onion actually beating Big Red prior to this although SEC was not himself with a fever.
Posthumous kudos to Onion. I almost shed a tear when they brought the old gelding back and entered him in a claming race. To me that was a travesty for such a game little horse. Just glad he got to live out his life on Hobeau Farms in the end.
joefederico 1 year ago
The World Record for the 1 1/8 mile that still exist is held by Simply Majestic a 4 year old in 1988 at Golden Gate race track near San Francisco. He was carring 114 lbs. Ran it in a time of 1:45 flat. Most say that golden Gate is the fastest or one of the fastest tracks in the world. Big Red here carried 124 lbs I believe. I could say Big Red time here would have been as fast for better than 1:45 flat if he was not slowed up coming upon Riva Ridge rear-end.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
Keep posting the great info...can't get enough of it. Watched all 3 TC races as a kid.
Used to live 5 minutes from Laurel Race Course where he ran the Laurel Futurity at 2...as did many of the all time greats.
Many frequenters of Laurel Race Course/Track said they had never seen a horse run like Sec.
bbmtge 1 year ago
Big Red din't reach the 1 1/8 mile post in 1:45 2/5 in his Belmont race. He did it here going real wide into the last turn. Really, this race was even better than all his races including running another 1/8 mile puling up to reach a time for the 1 1/4 distance in 1:57 4/5. What a Freight Train.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
Big Red's trainer said that Ruffian could have been better. Now that shows how good she was. I love both and Easy Goer and Rachel are very special as well.
rhynes2 1 year ago
I'm jealous of you Knugabug. Wish I was there. Whitney Tower a journalist & president of the National Horse Museum was there too.
He stated in a article he wrote. After an all-night rain, the sun and wind dried out the track to the point where it was wet-fast, as they say in racing circles. As many know that track was slower than a fast track. Thats even more amazing.
rscarbro100 2 years ago
I was there. It was awesome. Afterburners as usual. The only horse I've seen like that was in '74 named Pembles that exploded at The Big A like a rocket at 6. You don't want to know what it was like at The Belmont with Big Red....the noise was like a jet engine when Turcotte put the boy at warp speed.
Knugabug 2 years ago
3 races in some 23 days...a world record here, still existing track record for the Man O'War and 2nd place finish where he does not seem himself yet still run a great time in the slop. 2 mile and a half races and the MC at 1 1/8. Simply incredible, mythical, legendary.
bbmtge 2 years ago
The 1 mile distance time was ran in 1:33. He was within 3/5 of a second off Dr. Fager record for a mile here & still had some ground left to go. Also looks like Secretariat had to be held up somewhat from keep hitting Riva in the rear or he would have gotten to the 1 mile post even faster & the time pulling up at the 1 1/4 mile post would have been better than 157: & change.
rscarbro100 2 years ago
I have seen the Bid's record. Very impressive indeed. But, the Bid was not a 1 1/2 mile horse. Delp knew that & might be the reason he never ran him again at that distance. To be a gaint of a horse you gotta be a long distance runner as well. Bid was not but Secretariat was.
As 3 year olds Secretariat out performed Bid especially in the big 3 TC races.
Must remind this one more time. SEC ran a unoffical time at a 1 1/4 distance in 157.80 in this race as a 3 year old, Bid was 4 years old.
rscarbro100 2 years ago
I have watched all the videos of all the great ones on you tube. Secretariat is the greatest horse of all time. But a close second has to be Spectacular Bid. The MAIN reason The Bid does not get his respect is he did not win the TC. I would like to think that the general public would rank him well into the top five of all time greats. People please take a look at The Bid's races on here. He does not get the respect he deserves.
jkmooreelle 2 years ago
What wonderful and heady days this must have been for Penny Tweedy/Chenery....your two KY Derby winners coming in 1 and 2...It makes my heart feel great to see them side by side and in stride around that bend....
shellpen10 2 years ago
What's truly amazing also is Turcotte hand riding Secretariat in this race! Has anyone considered that Big Red's finish here would put him 15 lengths in front of Rachel Alexandra's mile and 1/8th in the Woodward??? That's how great Big Red was!!!
blackcloudipoy 2 years ago
Best part about this race? Stablemates going all out against each other. In deep stretch Eddie Maple is putting the whip to RR to try to stay with Big Red. Phillip Morris initially sponsored this race as a match race between the stablemates but opened it up to other horses after both lost their prep races prior to this, as per wikipedia.
joefederico 2 years ago
36 years later we look back and he seems almost supernatural now. I remember them saying we wouldn't see another like him for 75 years and so far they've been right.
ratso444 2 years ago
Something I hadn't noticed before, in light of Secretariat's unbelievable time in this race, at around :42 of the video as the lead pack is bunching up, Turcotte is having to pull up and slow down so as not to run up Riva's rear end. I just can't imagine his time and final fractions had he just kept going!!!
blackcloudipoy 2 years ago
Here's my favorite Riva Ridge giving his stablemate, the great Secretariat, a run for his money. He gave Big Red all he could handle that day. To only lose by two in the last 300yds. by the all time superhorse is not that bad. You could tell he wasn't intimidated by Big Red. I love both these horses. Could you imagine owning both these two greats in back to back years! Awesome!
pleasantcolony 2 years ago
"Secretariat in front by two, then Riva Ridge second and Cougar, Secretariat... IN FRONT!!!" Great call by Dave Johnson.
Arps103 2 years ago
I find it incredible to think that some people think he isn't the best horse to ever live
lengua92 2 years ago
i know man i agree with you big red is by far the best horse ever a horse like that comes along once in a lifetime or lets say once every 50 years maybe
Gateway0807 2 years ago
Perhaps the greatest field ever assembled for a single race. Five champions competed: Secretariat, Riva Ridge, Key to the Mint, Kennedy Road, and Cougar II. This may be Secretariat's greatest race.
susannreno 2 years ago
Riva Ridge and Big Red, how is that for an entry? WOW. Was there any money in the pool not on #2 in that race???? lol
I dont know who is greater, Man O War or Secretariat, but I sure love watching Big Red run (amazing they both had the same nickname), Thanks for posting!!
imthechasman 2 years ago
I think this race clearly shows that Onion won over a sub-par Secretariat in the Whitney.....Onion wasn't even close at the finish to this one.
MelC54 2 years ago
Could not agree with you more. I believe the time in that race was 1:48 and change. That clearly shows, as was later disclosed, that something was wrong (health) with Sec. This race, like the Belmont amongst others, shows that Sec seemed to run on a different track. With veritable ease we see another world record; especially after a very slow start out of the gate. Watch how, at approx. 1:30 he seperates from the field. Sub 1:45 time if he wanted. The greatest!!!
bbmtge 2 years ago
Big Red won in 1:45.2 and the mile fraction was 1:33. Pretty awesome huh? He pulled up at the mile and a quarter in 1:57 and change. Now that's truly unbelievable!!!
blackcloudipoy 2 years ago
THAT HORSE WAS SOMETHING ELSE
femwa 2 years ago
i was too young to appreciate the greatestness of Secretariat. The best horse I ever saw was named SEATTLE SLEW. BIG and very BLACK. Killed affirmed 2x;s. The race against Exceller shows how great he was
thelongshot99 2 years ago
This world record performance after coming off an illness, training poorly, where Lucien Lauren drilled four hard workouts into him within two weeks before the race. That would have ruined any other horse. Secretariat responds with a world record 145 & 2 galloping out the mile 1/4 in 157 & 2!! Secretariat out sprinted the sprinters and out ran the stayers. Secretariat - the greatest horse to step on the track.
Mitch
mitchblack 3 years ago
That's just telling it like it is! What an incredible horse! Mark my words, he's so great, we'll yet see a descendant that will bring back shades of the great Big Red! I can't wait!
blackcloudipoy 2 years ago
What was Sec 3/4 fraction in this race?
bbmtge 2 years ago
Hi. According to the Daily Racing Form Past Performance chart I have in front of me, Secretariat was listed as a half length behind the 3/4 pole leader, stablemate Riva Ridge, who clocked in at 1:09 1/5 (1:09.20-39), so Big Red ran somewhere between 1:09 1.5/5 (1:09.30) to 1:09 2/5 (1:09.49).
That would be my best educated guess.
Take care.
cf1970 2 years ago
Equine perfection.
Mitch
mitchblack 3 years ago
Stop the vid at about 28 seconds & I'll tell you exactly what Turcotte's thinking......"My big guy is running easy, gliding, floating, and we're eating up the lead. When the time's right, I'll just let the reigns out a notch, and we'll see you in the winner's circle."
blackcloudipoy 3 years ago
wow! How much more could a racing stable ask for , The Meadow Stables were certainly Blessed those two years in racing!, but then so were we! Oh the Glory Days of yesteryears! How I long for thee. Thanks for keeping the memories alive!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
shazaz2122 3 years ago
i never get tired of watching this horse. the greatest of all time.
lengua92 3 years ago
BTW, I am new to youtube. But, this 500 character limit is juvenile!
jimchait 3 years ago
1. Jim, welcome to YouTube, and without debating which horse was better, I agree with many of your excellent points concerning Spectacular Bid's amazing talent. I love The Bid, and I've been touting him all along as the second best horse of all time, so we are at loggerheads, I'm afraid. Suffice it to say that I respectfully, but categorically disagree with your assessment of Big Red.
cf1970 3 years ago
2. Secretariat's track conditions, losses and much more have been rehashed countless times here and on other videos, so take a look here and around YouTube and you will find out many more facts about Big Red. I simply don't have the time or desire to get into a debate about Secretariat again.
Take care.
cf1970 3 years ago
My personal list at 1 1/4 (post 1960, as my detailed knowledge of thoroughbred racing pre 1960 leaves me without enough subjective comparitive criteria to be valid) goes like this:
1-Spectacular Bid
2-Affirmed
3-Secretariat
4-Seattle Slew
5-
jimchait 3 years ago
Youv'e got to be kidding. Secretariat ran much faster than the Bid in every triple crown race. If they ever raced head to head, I've got my money on Big Red. His motto: refuse to lose! Also, Seattle Slew killed in Affirmed when they went head to head. You need to rethink your rankings. Secreariat and Seatlle Slew 1 and 2!
lowcountrycat 2 years ago
Once again Big Red Shows his dominance & why he is the superhorse! Riva Ridge gave him a run for his money. Riva was always shadowed by his stablemate & rightfully so. Riva was an awesome horse! He's in my top 30 alltime favorite horses.
pleasantcolony 2 years ago
I know it sounds like sacrilege to some on the surface, but lay their pps down next to each other, then view each of their lifetime races a couple of times and it becomes very obvious that at the least, a genuine debate is in order. Using my personal criteria for thoroughbred greatness, Spectacular Bid comes out on top of Secretariat.
jimchait 3 years ago
The Bid's only "bad" race was his Belmont, which,a s I mentioned earlier, was a display in greatness to me. Check out his race as a 3yo against the older Triple Crown winner Affirmed in 1979. Affirmed himself had attempted an older triple crown winner himself in Seattle Slew in 1978, having fared not as well as the Bid in such an endeavour. The Bids 4 yo campaign is unrivaled by any horse in history. The Bid set track and world records from 7 furlongs to 1 1/4 miles on BOTH coasts.
jimchait 3 years ago
lightning fast as Secrectariat did. Secretariat's Preakness was probably more visually impressive than Bids. The Bid would have been a Triple Crown winner had it not been for the dismal ride given him in the Belmont. To enthuisiastically chase a no-hoper through brutal fractions, then, rubber legged from the task, almost come back at the horses that had passed him late was, to me, nearly as remarkable as Big Red's Belmont. TBC....
jimchait 3 years ago
Wow! That last sentence is simply astounding in it's absurdness. You do understand that Sec ran his Belmont in WR time, a time that hasn't even been approached, on his own, right? If he'd been asked for anything, he would have run it even faster. He did all that and was not rubber legged at all. That claim is downright stupifying. Those "brutal" fractions you claim? Half in 47&3, and Bid was 3 behind! 3/4 1:11&1. Sec's were 46&1 and 1:09&4!!! Seriously, how do you expect to be taken seriously?
blusterjfk 3 years ago
Secretariat has a case for being #2, behind Spectacular Bid.
jimchait 3 years ago
You must be kidding if you are presenting that Spectacular bid was a better horse than Secretariat. What reasoning could you possibly have.
bbmtge 3 years ago
I kid you not. The reasoning would be manifold. I do not attempt to disparage Secretariat, he was one of the greatest thoroughbreds of all time. His legend and almost household name status simply happens to exceed his exceptional racing career. First, SB's race record was superior. I know, he didn't win the triple crown. His Derby was probably more impressive than Secretariats. I know, he didn't run the very fast time that Big Red did. however, he didn't have a track as suped up TBC...
jimchait 3 years ago
The official opinion of the experts (and of course those who share it) is in Blood Horse top 10 Derbys. Secretariat's is number one, a relentless continual drive thru 1 1/4 mi, each quarter faster than previous rather than normal reverse due to tiring. His final quarter 35 yrs ago was 23 seconds flat.
bon1042 3 years ago
Hi, sorry I inadvertently deleted your PM. Yes, after setting record 35 yrs ago of
1:45 2/5 in Marlboro Cup, he did the same time as Bid's 1 1/4 dirt record, I forget, 1:58 2/5? AND he did it PULLING up. Charles Hatton used to say "this sucker sets records pulling up!" And don't forget, Bid set record at age 4, Sec at 3.
bon1042 3 years ago
bon, this race is fast becoming my favorite. It seems to take 18 seconds for Sec to gte his feet underneath of him. Then...boom...amazing how he closes and then takes over. A world record at both 1 1/8 and 1 1/4 miles. Simply unbelievable!!!
bbmtge 3 years ago
sorry it has been 3 months,but The Bid's time was 1:57 4/5.
BE109 3 years ago
Yes, one snapshot of the two going across the finish line. I was at the Belmont Stakes earlier but couldn't get near the finish line....Secretariat looked like a jet coming down the stretch....the goosebumps on my arms never left for 15 minutes, Ron was riding him HARD to break that record. I met Ron years later and he told me it was like he wanted to keep going faster as he went down the strech, as almost as if he knew he was the best.
Knugabug 3 years ago
I was right there at the finish line with my Kodak camera at age 16. Those blinkers side by side were AMAZING! This was at time when the NYRA was full of fixed races, so, it was refreshing. Angel Cordero Jr. took lots of my money.
Knugabug 3 years ago
That's terrific! Do you still have the shots you took of that race? Witnessing that firsthand must have been quite a thrill! I can only imagine the excitement in the crowd. Big Red and Riva Ridge running together is one of my very favorite racing moments, ever.
Thank you for sharing your precious memories.
cf1970 3 years ago
I love these videos. Wow, Secretariat against Riva Ridge. Classic. Didnt Riva Ridge win the Belmont wire-to-wire the next year?
karch139 3 years ago
Glad you're enjoying them. It was awesome to see Big Red and Riva race against each other here. I can only imagine them as stablemates; I read that Riva seemed very jealous of all the attention Secretariat received after his '73 Triple Crown blitz. Who can blame him?
Riva Ridge won his superb Belmont the previous year (1972).
Take care.
cf1970 3 years ago
Secretariat's cardiovascular system is similar to that found in Akhal-Tekés, probably a throwback from the thoroughbred roots. Another racehorse (don't know the name) from 150-200 years ago also showed the same trait and won everything, indeed many thoroughbreds can be traced back to him.
It would be an interesting experiment to develop a TB mark II but ATs are so rare now genetic diversity would be an issue.
ilah2001 3 years ago
It sure is. I made a point of it to post those very facts when I posted this in late 2006. It's an astounding achievement!
Take care.
cf1970 3 years ago
It is worth repeating!
Mitch
mitchblack 3 years ago
Just as amazing as the new world record Secretariat set in this race is the fact that he galloped out the mile and a quarter in 157 and 2.
Mitch
mitchblack 3 years ago
All things considered including the class of the field, aside from the Belmont this may have been Secratariat's best race. Schooling Riva Ridge and Kennedy Road was surely no easy task, but he did take them to class that day!!
3dog9ty 3 years ago
Don't forget about Cougar, Key to the Mint and Onion, the first two of which were Eclipse Winners, along with Riva and Kennedy Road.
gfn02 3 years ago
Yeah, just an incredible field for that race. And Secretariat handled them with such ease. I never saw Turcotte hurry him one bit. Never a second of panic or rush. He certainly made up for that loss to Onion, and check out the distance between Secratariat and Onion at the finish. Simply amazing.
3dog9ty 3 years ago 2
This field was a top class one. Secretariat made these very fine group of racehorses(this field had more than 1 champion in it)look like they should be pulling milk wagons. Yes he would have been downright scary as a 4 yr. old!!
BE109 3 years ago 2
Agreed, and wholeheartedly so. I truly feel that Secretariat would have been untouchable as a 4 year old. Many records would have fallen.
Take care.
cf1970 3 years ago
Yep, 5 champions graced this field, and he handled them with ease.
gfn02 3 years ago
Lets be real BLADERUNNER, you comparing seattle slew to secretariat is like saying a mercedes is in the same class as a rolls royce, we all know there is a class difference seattle one of the greats of all time but different level.
I just cant believe people make these comparisons today and this is coming from a dr fager fanatic.
mastiffs36 4 years ago
Lets give secretariat a little respect folks. Secretariat is unarguably the greatest thoroughbred champion that ever set a hoof on a racetrack,. This horse secretariat if i was a betting man. I would put everthing ive ever worked for on the line and be content, matched against anybody at any distance he would win.He did not carry the greatest weights, he never posessed the best record ever, but when he was at his best, when he began roar he was simply a freight train.
mastiffs36 4 years ago
This was arguably the greatest field EVER assembled for a race. Counting Secretariat, there were FIVE champions in that race. No race before or since have had that many in a single race. Yet Secretariat demolished the field, setting a record that stood for something like 16 years. He was the greatest.
nuness20 4 years ago 2
The five champions were Secretariat, Riva Ridge, Kennedy Road, Key to the Mint, and Cougar II. No other race has ever had this quality of a field, but because Secretariat was truly a genetic freak, he made the rest of the field look like mediocrities, which they certainly weren't.
nuness20 4 years ago 2
Are ignorant people STILL talking about Secretariat's losses? Well, he nearly went down in his first race, coming in fourth. He was disqualified from bearing in on Stop the Music in the Champaign Stakes. He had an abscess on his lip in the Wood. He had a virus in the Whitney. Lucien Laurin didn't bother to train him for the Woodward. Secretariat was FAR superior to any horse before, then, or afterwards.
nuness20 4 years ago 3
Unreal that the owner/trainer would run Secretariat under such circumstances... if something like that happened today, they would have to fend off the sharks. Totally irresponsible not to scratch an unsound horse, or to fail to train a horse.
DanielSong39 4 years ago 2
Also, when Prove Out whipped Big Red, LL & Turcotte had many reasons, yet when Jerkins said they can settle the score in the JCGC, Big Red's connections didn't bite. Instead they ran Riva Ridge and Prove Out crushed him. Big Red was a great horse, but no better or worse as compared to Seattle Slew.
NYCBladerunner 4 years ago
The last sentence of your comment is not true, and the implication that Sec's team "ducked" Prove Out is utterly ridiculous. Now, before you respond with mean-spirited irrelevancy, understand that cf doesn't stand for that here.
blusterjfk 4 years ago 4
Jacinto Vasquez, who was astride Angle Light when that colt whipped Secretariat in the Wood, did a magnificent job in controlling a slow early pace, along with maneuvering Secretariat toward the rail, where he kept him for the last three-eighths of a mile while defeating him on Onion. Prove Out smacked Big Red and the excuses always fly- but it's racing! You can make a million excuses at any given time!
NYCBladerunner 4 years ago
For goodness sake, the abscess WAS the reason he lost the Wood. Minimizing that factor is denying reality, because a few weeks later in the Derby a healthy Sec demolished Angle Light in record time. You seem to have a burr about this horse. What, you think Slew isn't recognized for the great champion he was?
blusterjfk 4 years ago 4
Old Onion got the REAL Secretariat in this one. World record for a 1 1/8 mile. He looked like locomotive, just unstoppable!
BE109 4 years ago 3
I couldn't agree more. Secretariat's Whitney was a throw out race. He had a low grade fever that was ignored by Laurin despite the protestations of Turcotte.
Respectfully, Laurin was quite the stubborn man who cost Secretariat some of his defeats, without a doubt.
Take care.
cf1970 4 years ago
Hi BE, on Old Onion getting REAL Secretariat-also, fm 4/21 WdMml suffering w/abscess thru Triple Crown/3 records, Arl Invit 6/30 ($125,000 temptation)when he was supposed to rest, 8/4 Whitney w/Tucotte saying he wasn't right, 103 Fever/virus sweated out of him, LL trained him hard, then 9/15 MrlboCup set a world record, T said after Whitney/virus(weakens horse) any other horse wld have been out rest of yr! Then untrained 9/29 subd RR WdWrd, 10/8 MOW grass record, 10/28 CanIntl 1 5/8 2:41 4/5.
bon1042 3 years ago
I wanted to clarify point of my post which is that given what Secretariat went thru bec of fever/virus thus losing Whitney and having to be scratched fm Travers bec of illness and recuperation time, Turcotte said any other horse wld've been out rest of yr, yet he came back, did 3 furlongs in 33+. Penny said Sec bit her so he must feel better. Then LL trained him hard and look what he did in Marlboro! I wanted to get all info in above to show he never got a rest after Belmont.
bon1042 3 years ago
What is amazing about Sec is the way he was trained. Lauren understood that he needed, blazing works for his horse right before a race. That is more often than not the wrong way to condition a racehorse. Usually when a horse goes out for his final work before a race and goes lets say 57 & change for 5 F.(remember this is a work) everybody gasps and proclaims the horse just ran his race,and the trainer has screwed up. Sec for whatever reason thrived on this program. Really, this is very rare.
BE109 3 years ago
Well said, BE. I totally agree with your viewpoint. Secretariat absolutely craved his zingers. Hope life is treating you well.
Thank you for stopping by, and for your always excellent input on many videos.
cf1970 3 years ago
Sure is. That giant engine needed tuning up.
gfn02 3 years ago
Do you think it cld have something to do with his size, that is his girth and "wide-sprung ribs" to hold the lungs and that 21-22 lb heart? I sometimes think bec of this "big engine" so to speak, it needed that much more "revving up" and that that is why he thrived on and maybe actually needed the zingers, to have that edge. 2 slow wkouts wrkng up to MOW and then being thrown into WdWrd, brkng trng pattern was why he lost it. He cld've won but he came back blowing, he wasn't fit.
bon1042 3 years ago
I agree with you, bon. Secretariat's cardiovascular system was incredible, yet understandably demanding of fitness at the same time, to properly propel his enormous musculature as well. He really needed that hard workout shortly before a race to stay razor sharp and primed for run. With a big body like his, being "short" likely would have cost him a second or so on the track. That would be my guess at it.
Take care, my friend.
cf1970 3 years ago
Cougar II finished third after starting from 7th/last, 6 behind the next horse in front.
WhiteCamry 4 years ago
Yes, a very impressive effort from Cougar II. He was a very talented horse indeed.
cf1970 4 years ago
That's great to see Riva Ridge run so well here. Reading Nack's book, I kind of felt bad for Riva and the way he declined in his 3 yr old year and the way in which Sec over shadowed him. Two of history's greatest in this one! One of my new favorite vids!
khasperg 4 years ago
Agreed. Riva's performance here is heart-warming. He's one of my favourites, ever. Secretariat drove him to finish strongly, it's great how stablemates do that!
Thanks for watching and have a good night!
cf1970 4 years ago
Hey CF ---when you watch this race look about 56-59 seconds in ----you can see Riva and Sec's heads bobbing as though they were twins...I also love when they reach the turn and they are driving stride for stride although each one leads with the opposite leg...What glorious, heady times they were for Meadow Stables...
shellpen10 4 years ago
Make that 29 and 38-39 seconds in...
shellpen10 4 years ago
It's wonderful how in synch they were in that short time frame. It's definitely one of the alltime highlights of racing for me. So fitting and it warms the cockles of my heart just thinking of it, let alone seeing it.
Take care.
cf1970 4 years ago
Thanks for posting this race. Secretariat was so magnificent; all the horses are beautiful. I love it. THANKS AGAIN.
RainyMarch 4 years ago
You're very welcome. I agree, all horses are beautiful. Absolutely. Thanks for watching.
cf1970 4 years ago
I just received my Mare's papers and have found that her Great Grandfather was Secretariat...this site was so awesome to watch..Calypsos Charm looks a lot like her great grandfather.
CalypsosCharm 4 years ago
Congratulations. I'm sure she is a beauty.
Take care.
cf1970 4 years ago
anyone notice the incredible quality of the horses in this race!
forenlace 4 years ago
Yep, a world class field. One of the best ever assembled.
cf1970 4 years ago
As I've stated previously, I'm not an expert on TB's, but it would seem to me that racing could be a little hard on a horse.....maybe even dangerous if pushed enough. So why would they continue to keep racing their investments against Big Red? Did they really think they had a chance? I guess some people are just stubborn and think the next time is MY time. Silly people. Nice video cf1970. Thanks.
scrawneypaledude 4 years ago
Ha. Why indeed.
Glad you liked it, my friend.
Have a good day.
cf1970 4 years ago
It's a good thing he was retired in '73 because nobody would've wanted anything to do with him as a 4 yr old. I mean, after the Derby look at the small nature of the fields that he ran against for the most part. The Marlboro was a special event which had a rich purse, and so this quality field was convened.
gfn02 4 years ago
Woah, we have the son of Secreteriat at our horse barn- one of many I'm sure...he went up to Prix St Georges in Dressage
kenyaurhahn22 4 years ago
A son of Secretariat, how old is he?? What's his name? What does he look like, who was dam?? Are you aware of Straight Flush story on Secretariatdot com, half brother of Secretariat, 32 yrs old, son of Riva by Somethingroyal, Sec's dam? READ IT, it's wonderful.
bon1042 4 years ago
He is 19 I'm pretty sure and his name is Farley. He is big and black with a white star
kenyaurhahn22 4 years ago
Assuming Farley is a full TB, was he registered with the Jockey Club? If so, what's the name he's registered under? Who was his dam?
WhiteCamry 4 years ago
How old---what is his name....is he chestnut????
shellpen10 4 years ago
I'm with you, ladies. I'm very interested to know too.
cf1970 4 years ago
cf, haven't commented yet on the wonderful video you forwarded, thanks,
bon1042 4 years ago
You're welcome, milady. I was amazed at that footage that I hadn't seen b4, it was wonderful to watch. Made my day. :-D
cf1970 4 years ago
I still have the offical program...in those days it was about 4" X 9" and contained no past performances. And the tracks were 'quiet'... no annoying backround music.
joebuzjoebuz 4 years ago
CF-they may have been stablemates but even Penny commented that Riva was built completely different than our BIG BOY...It is great to see them running together...the 1972-1973 Derby winners .....what a time that had to be....
shellpen10 4 years ago
They were vastly different. The same height from what I've read though.
I agree. What a glorious time that must have been.
Take care.
cf1970 4 years ago
At 1.27 they were stride for stride...how neat is that.
shellpen10 4 years ago
That is a moment I treasure. Riva was a very fine horse.
And very worthy of legend status.
cf1970 4 years ago
Hi, yes, and I read that was a loving heartwarming moment for Penny Chenery, her two champions, running together. Also read think Turcotte's brother, Rudy was on Riva and they could see difference in strides, Secretariat's being longer.
bon1042 4 years ago
Bon-Check out Tour D'OR on thoroughbred query on yahoo...look at that confirmation and check out who his granddad was....lol
shellpen10 4 years ago
Haaa !! haven't looked yet but I knnooww who you're hinting at shell ! He's also granddad of Medaille d'or (sp?)
bon1042 4 years ago
I see what you men, amazing, even those strong back legs, and he even has his white socks on the right legs, I fantasize being on jeopardy and final jeopardy question being... Sec had 3 white stockings, which leg was solid chestnut??
bon1042 4 years ago
I couldn't believe that Tour's features being exactly the same on the right legs....His left front was solid....If you notice...Storm Cat seems to throw white on the legs of his progeny...a throwback to Sec I think...Gone West does it also...
shellpen10 4 years ago