You establish that it is a separate organism but you do not establish that it is a human life. Those qualities which define the value of humanity over the value of other lifeforms are not present. At the point that it can think and feel then yes it is human life and it has rights. But before that point a woman has a choice to decide whether she thinks it is immoral and not right for her. I urge that no one get an abortion if you think it's immoral.
FINALLY, a secular point of view against abortion that is actually sort of logical.
So if a woman were pregnant but was also poor and barely able to support herself, much less another human being, would you really go up to her and say "you must keep the baby and get on with your life"? Do you hold a funeral whenever there is a miscarriage, as you would do should another human loved one die?
And why the hell do you care about fetuses but don't care about the death penalty or war?
Abortion is murder. Abortion should absolutely be prosecuted as pre-meditated first degree murder. It is only the tyranny of the federal court that prevents the state from doing what is right-- prosecuting abortion as murder.
Wrong. overwhelming majority of abortions are caused naturally, the mother may not even know if a fetus naturally aborted. Should you blame god for this evil? My point is judge not lest ye be judged.
Abortion is the deliberate, premeditated MURDER of an innocent child. Abortion is an EVIL act. It is wrong to not call abortion evil and hold accountable those who plan and execute such an evil act.
The fetus can not kill the mother, it has no responsibility for its actions, its mind is blank and in the most pure, innocent state. If the mother fails to live through the birth, it is a result of her own deficiancy, and the fetus is not culpable.
yes and on the flip side if a woman has a miscarriage and the fetus dies it is not the womans fault ethier. but there are diseases out there that can kill both the mother and the unborn baby. if you had a choice between saving the mother or saving the baby which one would you choose?
@tothemax01 as would i. but these are things we must take into consideration before we condemn abortions and those who have them, abortion "for the most part" is bad, however there are exceptions to every rule.
what about rape or incest? in the case of rape the woman didnt get a choice to have sex, and if she gets pregnant due to that, shouldnt she get a "choice" to keep the baby or not?
@AceofDiamonds0 For the latter, whilst the situation is depraved, there is still no real moral recourse to permit the child to be killed. In the former case, no one who is pro-life for moral reasons believes that a woman has no right to choose when and by whom she gets pregnant. A woman killing a rapists child she has been forced to bear is moral because it is retaliation against a crime, but of course there would have to be a time-limit when the law determines she has agreed to have the child.
I oppose overturning Roe v. Wade, not because of debate of the morality of Abortion itself.
But, for abortion (and I think You'd agree) that even if abortion is "outlawed," there are some circumstances in which Abortion is necessary.
Rape or danger of mother's life, is one of these. If a mother's life is in danger, could you imagine having each doctor and abortion patient being tried for every "legitimate" abortion done, or for the Mother to have to obtain a "warrant" for each abortion????
Umm Before roe v wade if the womans life was at risk and losing the child was the only way to save her life it happened, but, that was not called abortion that was a side effect of a life saving procedure for the woman. That's how it was treated anyway.
You are right, I meant to say human being and slipped. I do say human explicitly in a couple other places in the video.
Anyway, it is just basic logic. If we hold to universal rights of an, and if a fetus is human, then we cannot arbitrarily kill them. There is no wiggle room.
you forgot there laws of this country we citizens must follow and that of other countries...that's why we can't kill illegals w/o being prosecuted...duh!
you believe right to life.
your beliefs doesn't trump my body, when that embryo is inside me not you!
and we talked about all of this...remember!
when U refuse to believe the 14th doesn't apply embryos ....when it said "all person born" in the first sentence!
why would the gov make laws to protect you if they doesn't know you exist? by an SSN/ birth certificate.
if they don't know you exist ...why would they take away born, grown, legal person right to choose what is best for her own body for the life a non-born, non-legal person, living inside her and off of her, which is her property, there fore, the embryo as well.
to protect an embryo when she doesn't want it = waste $
I'm sorry, that is a really, really stupid comment. The government does not HAVE to make any laws protecting my right to live; it is considered part of the "universal rights of man" (or if you prefer; "universal human rights"). If it is human, it has a right to not be murdered by default. If a government makes a law that says non-citizens can have their heads chopped up and sucked out a rubber tube, that law is illegitimate according to the universal rights of man.
You're also right about the universal human rights.
The constitution and its amendments do Not grant those rights to anyone it merely recognizes them.
The other one here the so called freeam, guy seems to forget the Scott Peterson case and many other similar cases in whcih the pre born are recognized as having a right to live.
Or if we're talking about human beings being denied their rights I'd point to historical cases like the Dread Scott decision, in which a human being was denied his rights.
The courts are far from infallible.
What's fine and dandy to them one day is completley wrong the next. Obviously we have a history of having idiots in the supreme court and the white house for that matter.
Bush was playing politics nothing more. Like you said he got rid of partial birth abortions. Than why didn't he do a thing about all the rest? He did nothing more than stop some funding. Not much of a big deal to a multi billion dollar industry.
I've said this other places and will say it here. The government and rulers of this country since I've been alive are mostly trash who care about nothing but, their own agendas.
See above cases, You can't be charged with murder unless you killed a Person.
Or here legal person:
:a body of persons or an entity (as a corporation) considered as having many of the rights and responsibilities of a natural person and esp. the capacity to sue and be sued
A natural person is: human being as distinguished from a person (as a corporation) created by operation of law .
Worthless politicians and law makers choose to ignore this fact because the abortion business is a multi million dollar industry for planned parenthood alone.
And how many politicians get contributions from abortionists, I wonder.
It's the same reason slavery was "legal". People were / are making a lot of money off of it.
You can bet if there were billions to be had in rape it would be "legal".
When amoral people can make fortunes just by hurting or killing people they will do it. History and present day society has proven this. And of course they all had their supporters who made no money off it. Ignorant fools the whole lot of them.
Done talking with you.
Was as fun as talking with flat-earthers and holocaust deniers.
You've chosen your side and nothing short of a civil war will change that. Oh well many borters are like you. a shame really.
Absolutely. Just like the Dred Scott decision, which, through judicial feat instantly made an entire swath of the human race legally "inhuman" for purposes of the US law; the Roe V. Wade case did the same thing. Only difference is that it is based on age, not color.
It was the Declaration of Independence that brought down the constitutional reinterpreters in the 1850s, and it will bring them down today. The Supreme Court was wrong then and is wrong now.
but what you fail to realize that natural person is inside a legal person( a part of a corporation i.e. citizen of america ) womb and living off of her , therefore, the government say she is legally within rights to remove that natural person that hasn't born yet...duh!
government picked by her give her that right, if not, abortion would be illegal...duh!
Is youir head so far up your ass that you can't see the many cases that exist?
I give up, fuck it. Peace, intelligence, you pro abort scum don't understand these. I think Roeder realized that, and I'm starting to as well.
I've seen your homepage, Would I be correct in presuming you believe a civil war is coming? If so guess which americans I consider enemy #1. And whcih ones I'll hunt down if there is one.
i guess when I'm trying to tell you how the world works in reality...which you choose to ignore.
what intelligence that you pro-life ppl have? you have no knowledge of the 14th amendment, declaration of independence, or any law and reality, but yet you claimed to have it!
and bitch and whine about people who do have it! you want to start a civil war to save embryos that you wouldn't even adopt once they been BORN, hell, you won't help SAVE CHILDREN AND BABIES DYING IN AFRICA.
Prominent Chicago abortionist Richard Ragsdale made "kiddie porn" featuring his own 3-year-old daughter.
LA Abortionist Dr. Ivan Namihas. Charged with four incidents of rape, 45 incidents of sexual abuse, gross negligence and mail fraud, He impregnated one of his patients,
repeatedly raped his half-sister and has more than 100 patients and former
patients who have reported allegations of medical misconduct or sexual
Didn't we already cover that the bulderbergs Want abortion to continue????
It's the easiest way for them to exterminate you. To get you to be dumb enough and blind enough to do it for them.
Like I said you're a puppet. You may not even realize it but, that's exactly what you are. Who do you think funds planned parenthood the largest abortion provider out there?????
i never said they were my messiah, god, you are a retarded! i refused to be force to stay pregnant against my will because of your and others opinion, i don't care about the history behind abortion...if i looked hard enough i would find some evil stuff you pro-life people had done as well.
abortion won't be overturned, so just start your civil war....and die for embryos u won't adopt or care for once they're born.
it's a control issue, but if abortion wasn't legal, these same people would be bitching about the over population in the USA in the early 90's, the greater crime wave and bigger pollution problems that comes long with it... instead of doing it right now!
if they love embryos SO MUCH...they should adopt a child or saved children in Africa...but of course THEY hate born children and women's civil rights to their bodies.
@BiggsReport Well, you may recall "The right to LIFE, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." Women who are forced to carry fetuses to term and then deliver them are deprived of all three of these.
@GTBeauregard "Living" and "children" being the key words here. Children can feel and suffer. Fetuses cannot. There is the difference. Your comparison is invalid.
@GTBeauregard Fetuses can't feel anything until the third trimester, and by this time hardly ANYONE gets an abortion. The VAST (like 98%) majority of abortions occur before this point.
@SickMouth Where did you get that? Organogenesis ends at the 8th week - first trimester; at this point the brain is formed. Regardless, are you saying its ok to murder as long as the person doesn't feel pain and/or is unaware of his/her death?
@GTBeauregard The brain might be formed in the 8th week, but the neuropassages required for fetuses to have any type of pain signal sent to the brain is not there. The brain is disconnected from the body and cannot perceive pain until 20 weeks later. See the 2005 article from Discover Magazine by Elise Kleeman entitled "When Does a Fetus Feel Pain?" You can search for it on discovermagazine (dot) com.
I'm glad you as the only authority on the subject set me straight. Just because the paper work isn't filled out it dose not make it right. this subject is alot more complex then that. Nothing is black and white.
Two human beings cannot create any thing but a human being. It's biologically impossible for a two members of the same species to create something not of their species that sudenly beomes thier species after gestation.
Their no scientific difference between a child about to be born and a child who has just been born. With all the advances in embrology over the past few decade even the most pro-abortion have had to admit the humanity of children in the womb.
Disagree with what? Human life, like all life of mammals begins at conception. This is not a a debate in the scientific commnity. All honest abortion advocates must support argue from the premisr that abortion kills an innocent, distint human being without due process of law.
I would like to ask you if you think we should have water boarded those non American citizens in Guantanamo, and held them without trial. If you say we should not have, then clearly you think that non American citizens have some kind of rights. Our Declaration of Independence states that all men are endowed with rights; not "born with", "endowed with".
Also the "non-human" argument is absurd according to genetics and biology.
abortion is legal because of the the embryo or fetus not a legal person until it's born and granted citizenship, it's doesn't have protection and why take away some else's liberty and happiness and give to a embryo that is attach a woman, a legal person who don't want it inside her!...that embryo and fetus is not a person yet and what makes him human isn't develop yet.
like the reason why a doctor can kill a brain-dead person who is still alive but what makes him human is gone.
Did you not read what was written directly above your post? We are not "born with certain unalienable rights" we are "endowed with certain unalienable rights". Rights were never predicated on birth, or any baby cut out by C-section prematurely would not be a citizen. The class of human beings have the right to live. If a fetus is of that class (and it scientifically is) then it does too. It is simple logic.
i thought you was smart, i guess not! in the DOI, only "MEN" have those rights...it doesn't women ,or children, or slaves having unalienable rights to life, liberty and happiness...those people's rights was added later in other amendments.
so why would a embryo has that right, if it wasn't a man?
there is no where in law RIGHT NOW saying an embryo or fetus has right to life! only in the heads of few people and they're willing to force and get rid of a woman's right to her own body.
I am not sure why I'm justifying this with a response...
Ever hear the term "mankind"? It means all of humanity. I suppose you don't like the term humanity either and want "huwomanity", but honestly, our language is constructed the way it is, I didn't do it. The Declaration means all humans have a right to life when it says "all men"; it is the way people talked in the 1700s. I frankly like it better than our modern, "gender neutral" BS PC speak today.
how can you be pro-life and not know anything about how the laws work with abortion?
funny, none of you guys know how of American laws work!
what do U think about abortion is? killing a non-citizen human, a person not protected under the law.
you can't kill a born, non-citizen like a illegal alien without justification for it like they endangering your life and the lives of your family...duh!
No shit children in the womb aren't considered legal persons, otherwise abortion would be illegal. The argument is whether they should be considered legal persons, I say yes, that all human beings should be considered legal persons.
Oh, and you don't have to be a citizen to be protected by the constition, do you really think its legal to arbitarly kill non-citizens you are in this.
They're not citizens but they are human beings and should be legal persons.
If it's ok to terminate a baby an hour before normal birth, why not an hour after? What is the difference? Do you also support the euthanasia of unproductive people like the mentally challenged and elderly?
PS; Declaration of independence says "all men are endowed with ....rights" NOT "born with".
I support birth control (contraceptives) but not abortion. Abortion is not birth control, it is the elimination of a being that can become a valuable member of society.
I am anti-abortion but pro-choice for the very reason that the practicalities of making abortion illegal when millions of women every year have this procedure would produce a totalitarian society.
Millions of women would be murderers and in most US states murder is a capital crime. So millions of women would be incarcerated in maximum prisons awaiting lethal injection.
Never mind the morality, how much would that cost the economy?
Somehow I don't think that you would end up with millions of women on death row just by removing the blanket protection for abortion at the Federal level. Nor would protecting innocent life create a totalitarian society.
Somehow, morality speaks stronger than economics; but what is moral usually turns out to be more economical in the end as well.
They think women who have abortions are murderers. They want to lock up women who have abortions and they want measures introduced to prevent women from having abortions. Would every woman who has a pregnancy be held against her will to prevent her from killing the foetus? How about preventing women from travelling outside of the country to a jurisdiction where abortion is legal? Tyranny would be the inevitable result.
So then, because we don't want the mothers who want to kill their babies killing themselves, lets keep it legal? HUH? Maybe if they had to risk their own lives to murder the baby, they would consider giving the baby life. It is not a "choice", it is a baby. AMERICA WILL NOT REJECT ABORTION UNTIL AMERICA SEES ABORTION.
No. Those who believe in protecting life also believe in innocence until proven guilty and due process under law. Abortion is murder but we would no more lock up every pregnant woman than we would lock up every rightful owner of a gun (for hunting or self-defense).
Your scare tactics are horribly misguided. If you actually believe that, I feel sorry for you. If someone brainwashed you with such childish scare tactics, its time to grow up and learn something about a nation under the rule of law
First; if the Federal blanket law is repealed, then the States would deal with this their own way, none of which would involve trying to arrest people for doing something that was legal at the time they did it.
Second, try to keep your comments civil. You do not have to be crude to be concise. I will zap unduly foul language here.
Satan creates evil because he hates God. And he separates people from God by casting doubt about His love for us. Satan must be allowed to work his plan to prove to the angels and to fallen man the evil of Satan's ways and the pain that they cause.
There's still no way to justify murdering innocent children, whether or not you've found God. Abortion is murder and no excuse can change that.
If God is all powerful, then we couldn't possibly have free wil. God would know in advance what good or evil we would commit wouldn't he and everything that happens including good and evil in the world would have to be God's doing or else God is not all powerful and is not God. In fact we would have no choice but to do God's will so if we commit evil we would be doing what God wants.
God is responsible for earthquakes, floods and plagues that kill innocents.
Fifty-eight percent (58%) of Americans say abortion is morally wrong most of the time. Only twenty-five percent (25%) disagree.
Sixty-four percent (64%) of women believe most abortions are morally wrong, a view shared by 51% of men. Eighty-eight percent (88%) of pro-lifers agree, as do 29% of those who are pro-choice.
Most Americans (52%) now think it is too easy to get an abortion in America.
Those who see nothing wrong with murdering unborn children are in the minority.
Tho I agree with you it is others rights to believe anything they want. You can not make them think your way. We all need to except each other for who we are.
OBAMA is doing what he said he would do. Yes, the reversal of the ban on money for foreign abortions that President Obama signed is a red flag and the tip of the iceberg. Obama Promised CHANGE and HOPE. "Where there is LIFE there is HOPE" and signing this Mexico City Pro-Abortion death warrant approving that our tax dollars pay for millions of 3rd world children to be aborted worldwide is definitely a betrayal of the trust that many people like myself have placed in him. How much will it cost
Abortion is a brave and responsible decision as often as it is a selfish one, no two cases are the same and that is why we have to keep the law and enforced morality out of it.
Appreciate your well argued video. I really struggle with this difficult subject, but I still cannot help coming down on the side of pro-abortion. Despite your legal and scientific arguments I cannot accept the equality of a foetus with a sentient adult, nor that its birth at any cost is always the best option for itself, its mother or society as a whole. The state has no business legislating in these matters, it is much too important for that!!
Thanks, good to know I have stirred up some thinking on this. If you note, I did not argue for it's birth at any cost, since it is certainly no more valuable than it's mother. It may interest you to know that abortion is legal in the USA because of the government legislating in this area.If you are talking about human rights; the state does not have to legislate your right not to be killed. It is considered fundamental.
How about the equality of a fetus and an infant? Is one more human than the other?
I think he made it pretty clear that if the mother's life is in danger a choice has to be made.
My brother and his wife had to make that choice. She had pre eclampsia and went into a coma at 5 1/2 months. The baby boy was delivered and everything possible was done to save him, but it was too early and he died after four days. They didn't just say, "Well, it was just a fetus" They MOURNED the loss of their son.
Well, bookhound, I am very sorry that things didn't work out for your brother and his wife. It was obviously a very wanted baby and must have been a devastating loss. This is not the case with all pregnancies however, and my point is simply that abortion can in many cases be the lesser of two evils and people should have both the ability and the support to make the correct decision for their own circumstances.
Inconvenience is not a circumstance.There are thousands of parents who would take an unwanted child. Inconvenience says, "I was irresponsible and now I am pregnant. Its inconvenient for me to be pregnant at this time. (Even though I KNEW that unprotected sex would lead to pregnancy.) So rather than carry this THING in my body for the next few months and "inconvenience" myself, I will just get rid of it and act like it never happened. The only problem is, the memory never goes away. (Continued..)
Women who have had abortions are HAUNTED by their actions. Ask the lady who was referred to as Jane Row in ROE vs WADE. She was arrested TODAY for protesting Obama's speech at Notre Dame because SHE IS NOW PRO-LIFE!
How do you think she feels knowing a LAW was created because of her that allows babies to be murdered? (Continued...)
These women don't just forget, they have nightmares.
They end up reacting in one of three ways. Either they become anti-abortion activists, or they actively HATE anyone who says that what they did was wrong. OR, they stew in their own guilt and battle bouts of depression while remaining silent. Abortion KILLS, not just the child but the spirit of the mother.
Inconvenient? Irresponsible? It is not always so frivolous! Tell a rape victim she must suffer 9 months of unwanted pregnancy and emotional turmoil before she can start to recover. The mother whose unborn baby is diagnosed with special needs has a right to be able to decide not to mortgage her life to the needs of another. Who is anyone to tell the brilliant teenager that her academic future is in tatters because the condom broke?
Only 5% of abortions are because of rape. So we are really talking about the vast majority of abortions here not 5%. If a woman is raped and becomes pregnant (which is rare) and she decides to terminate that LIFE she will have to live with that decision and you don't know WHAT pain she will go through knowing she killed someone who was made from half HER DNA. (continued...)
you don't know WHAT pain she will go through knowing she killed someone who was made from half HER DNA
She has a right to pain, she has a right to choice. The State has no right to stop her, only to inform, council, support and provide access to medical expertise. It is the duty of the State to ensure that abortion is not driven underground.
Mothers have had children who were diagnosed with special needs for YEARS. We got by. We handled the hand we were dealt. According to your argument Stephen Hawkins should have been aborted . God forbid that your mother had found out how ignorant you would be. She might have aborted you.
A brilliant teenager should know that sex results in pregnancy and condoms break. And her academic career doesn't have to be in tatters because she had a baby.
Mothers have had children who were diagnosed with special needs for YEARS. We got by. We handled the hand we were dealt.
You are welcome to get by if you so choose, but there is more than one way to handle the hand you are dealt. You want to force everyone to handle it your way, no matter what the context! Things are not that black and white, and we are now sufficiently advanced to not have to just get by anymore.
Ping, we are now sufficiently advanced!?!? Advanced enough to kill our own young, to stand by and watch others kill their babies!?! Is this the voice of Hitler? We need to make up our minds about abortion. Human wrong or human right? This has to be the worst ever case of double standards in human history, when abortion is 'all wrong' if it doesn't suit us, yet 'alright' if it does
Don't get me wrong angelshoulders, I said right at the outset that this was an issue I struggle with. But I am strongly against the state dictating morality. It is the job of our governments to provide the infrastructures, expertise and means to enable society to function. It should also ensure alternatives to abortion and encourage their deployment, but I do not believe that it is the business of government to dictate that choice de facto. That is the job of family, counselors and communities.
According to your argument Stephen Hawkins should have been aborted
We lose a potential Stephen Hawking every time a priest abstains. We lose an Einstein every time a wife has a headache. We lose a Marie Curie every time a science geek jerks off. Thats life. Hawking, by the way wasnt diagnosed until he was at university, otherwise, who knows?
No, we don't. An egg is not a human, neither is a sperm. It takes both to make a baby. Women were created to BE ABLE to get pregnant once a month, not to GET pregnant once a month. Nature supplies one egg a month. It also supplies millions of sperm a month. It is only when the sperm and egg come together that Life begins. Its actually amazing how infrequently sex results in pregnancy. A woman is only fertile for about 3 days per month. I guess God took that into account.
That about sums up the cause behind our difference of opinion I think. We were not CREATED to be able to get pregnant once a month, we EVOLVED that way. GOD is not taking anything into account. We are not messing up some grand plan when we abort, we are just making the best of our lives.. Irreconcilable differences I suppose?
Oh! OK, so survival of the fittest reigns supreme? Then lets kill all the people who need a warning on their hairdryer not to use it in the shower. and those who need a warning that Preparation H is not toothpaste. That should make humanity healthy.
It's a point. You wouldn't technically be a citizen. Yet the text I use when thinking of this is "...all men are endowed with certain unalienable rights by their creator, that chief among them are life..."
They do not say "are born with" they say are "endowed" with. Universal Rights of Man apply to all humans; I just think that science classifies a fetus as human is all.
Also; look at the Gitmo argument; we apply universal rights to non citizens or there wouldnt be any controversy.
How can a faith-tard possibly give a 'secular' argument?
Know what the difference is between pro-choice and anti abortionists? Zealot thinking comes from an emotional reaction or the other way around. Where rational objectivity involves seeing things from the bigger picture. Terminating the life of one unwanted fetus prevents the birth of one unwanted child this has an exponential effect on society. Good thing the people who created abortion laws were rational thinkers eh?
There is nothing more valuable or fundamental than human life. That is why we are a democratic society, since we believe in the Universal Rights of Man and want to maximize human freedom. Abortion is an issue primarily depending on what you classify (or do not classify) as "human" and therefore subject to those rights.
Also; continue to simply throw meaningless insults instead of arguments, and you will be blocked from commenting.
So what are your views on capital punishment or allowing children to starve to death or to be gunned down then?
So what did I say that was was such a meaningless insult? Are you or are you not viewing the live of the fetus from a moral or " faith-tarded" point of view?
You have completely missed the point. There has never been an argument on whether human fetuses are people or not. What did you think pro choice people think ?
Before babies are born the are french poodles?
A good number of pregnancies self terminate. GOD IS A BABY KILLER
Actually, a thinking liberal believes that human life is valuable; they say that a fetus has an undeveloped nervous system and therefore is not fully human yet; they compare killing it to killing skin cells.
You are obviously not a thinking liberal, and you still haven't even watched the video.
See, you devalue your argument just by using a derogatory term off the bat. Your biggest failing is being so blinded by your hubris that you believe people of faith have little intelligence. Life is not thought, life is not even birth. Protists are living creatures but have never been birthed or gestated. Your comparison of abortion to capital punishment is impossible without advanced ethical stoichiometry. Capital punishment involves a guilty party, abortion involves a helpless one.
You are not going to prevent unwanted pregnancies by
forcing people to bring unwanted children into the world.
Yesterday senior republicans gave a press conference. It is been the catering to the right wing extremist base of the party that has turned mainstream America against the party. A decision was reached that RvW will not longer be a campaign issue.
Sadly, I am not a republican. To hell with the party, I'm a conservative. If you don't want a child, get a shot, an IUD, a condom. There are options. The reason the Republicans lose is because their old senile senior leaders refuse to go home. The main function of intercourse is reproduction. That's like idiots who eat too much and complain about getting fat. You can't do something and complain about consequence.
No No I am only suggesting that someone who actually understands the scientific method for archiving objectivity can usually see subjective bullshit even when is is made to sound logical. At least Biggs was impressed with it.
It's great to see non-Christians also showing concerning about the issue of abortion. Unfortunately most people think "Oh well, only those CHRISTIANS are concerned about the issue." Anyway, I will be watching more of your vids.
You establish that it is a separate organism but you do not establish that it is a human life. Those qualities which define the value of humanity over the value of other lifeforms are not present. At the point that it can think and feel then yes it is human life and it has rights. But before that point a woman has a choice to decide whether she thinks it is immoral and not right for her. I urge that no one get an abortion if you think it's immoral.
zippythewildone 6 months ago
FINALLY, a secular point of view against abortion that is actually sort of logical.
So if a woman were pregnant but was also poor and barely able to support herself, much less another human being, would you really go up to her and say "you must keep the baby and get on with your life"? Do you hold a funeral whenever there is a miscarriage, as you would do should another human loved one die?
And why the hell do you care about fetuses but don't care about the death penalty or war?
Heyprinny 7 months ago
Abortion is wrong in every situation. It is selfish, cowardly and premeditated murder.
AtTheCornerCafe 1 year ago
If a fetus has protective rights under the constitution and the mother kills it is that murder? Do you procesecute?
If the fetus kills the mother and survices birth, do you procesecute the fetus?
why not?
CoLegacy 2 years ago
@CoLegacy
Abortion is murder. Abortion should absolutely be prosecuted as pre-meditated first degree murder. It is only the tyranny of the federal court that prevents the state from doing what is right-- prosecuting abortion as murder.
herbs814 2 years ago
what about the fetus if it kills the mother?
CoLegacy 2 years ago
@CoLegacy
The overwhelming majority of abortions are for purely evil reasons that have nothing to do with the health of the mother.
herbs814 2 years ago
@herbs814
Wrong. overwhelming majority of abortions are caused naturally, the mother may not even know if a fetus naturally aborted. Should you blame god for this evil? My point is judge not lest ye be judged.
CoLegacy 1 year ago 2
@CoLegacy "overwhelming majority of abortions are caused naturally,'
You are a fucking idiot. That's called a miscarriage.
An abortion is a willful conscious termination of a pregnancy.
A man accidentally fell into a well , should you blame God, or anyone for this evil?
LexPhilogus 1 year ago
@CoLegacy
Abortion is the deliberate, premeditated MURDER of an innocent child. Abortion is an EVIL act. It is wrong to not call abortion evil and hold accountable those who plan and execute such an evil act.
herbs814 1 year ago
@CoLegacy Great point, but when people say "abortion" they are speaking of non-natural termination of pregnancy; unless your in the obsterical ward.
GTBeauregard 2 days ago
The fetus can not kill the mother, it has no responsibility for its actions, its mind is blank and in the most pure, innocent state. If the mother fails to live through the birth, it is a result of her own deficiancy, and the fetus is not culpable.
tothemax01 1 year ago
@tothemax01
(sorry for responding to such an old comment)
yes and on the flip side if a woman has a miscarriage and the fetus dies it is not the womans fault ethier. but there are diseases out there that can kill both the mother and the unborn baby. if you had a choice between saving the mother or saving the baby which one would you choose?
AceofDiamonds0 1 year ago
@AceofDiamonds0 The mother.
tothemax01 1 year ago
@tothemax01 as would i. but these are things we must take into consideration before we condemn abortions and those who have them, abortion "for the most part" is bad, however there are exceptions to every rule.
what about rape or incest? in the case of rape the woman didnt get a choice to have sex, and if she gets pregnant due to that, shouldnt she get a "choice" to keep the baby or not?
AceofDiamonds0 1 year ago
@AceofDiamonds0 For the latter, whilst the situation is depraved, there is still no real moral recourse to permit the child to be killed. In the former case, no one who is pro-life for moral reasons believes that a woman has no right to choose when and by whom she gets pregnant. A woman killing a rapists child she has been forced to bear is moral because it is retaliation against a crime, but of course there would have to be a time-limit when the law determines she has agreed to have the child.
tothemax01 1 year ago
Comment removed
tothemax01 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
A fetus is not independent, neither a citizen, nor a person.
The woman has jurisdiction over her womb of course.
The woman only may invite intervention on her behalf, no one else.
No man can force a woman to have their child.
Therefore no one can force a woman to have any other child...
sanity1001 2 years ago
I oppose overturning Roe v. Wade, not because of debate of the morality of Abortion itself.
But, for abortion (and I think You'd agree) that even if abortion is "outlawed," there are some circumstances in which Abortion is necessary.
Rape or danger of mother's life, is one of these. If a mother's life is in danger, could you imagine having each doctor and abortion patient being tried for every "legitimate" abortion done, or for the Mother to have to obtain a "warrant" for each abortion????
ua1001 2 years ago
Umm Before roe v wade if the womans life was at risk and losing the child was the only way to save her life it happened, but, that was not called abortion that was a side effect of a life saving procedure for the woman. That's how it was treated anyway.
ThomasJS1 2 years ago
Wonderful video.
Only one fault. You say citizen. Yet you should say human being. As all humans whether they are or are not a citizen of the US have a right to life.
Othwise illegal immigrants would be killed off in droves every day.
ThomasJS1 2 years ago
You are right, I meant to say human being and slipped. I do say human explicitly in a couple other places in the video.
Anyway, it is just basic logic. If we hold to universal rights of an, and if a fetus is human, then we cannot arbitrarily kill them. There is no wiggle room.
BiggsReport 2 years ago
thomas
you forgot there laws of this country we citizens must follow and that of other countries...that's why we can't kill illegals w/o being prosecuted...duh!
you believe right to life.
your beliefs doesn't trump my body, when that embryo is inside me not you!
and we talked about all of this...remember!
when U refuse to believe the 14th doesn't apply embryos ....when it said "all person born" in the first sentence!
FREEAMERICANOW69 2 years ago
citizenship is the fact for abortion.
citizenship+ birth= no abortion.
why would the gov make laws to protect you if they doesn't know you exist? by an SSN/ birth certificate.
if they don't know you exist ...why would they take away born, grown, legal person right to choose what is best for her own body for the life a non-born, non-legal person, living inside her and off of her, which is her property, there fore, the embryo as well.
to protect an embryo when she doesn't want it = waste $
FREEAMERICANOW69 2 years ago
I'm sorry, that is a really, really stupid comment. The government does not HAVE to make any laws protecting my right to live; it is considered part of the "universal rights of man" (or if you prefer; "universal human rights"). If it is human, it has a right to not be murdered by default. If a government makes a law that says non-citizens can have their heads chopped up and sucked out a rubber tube, that law is illegitimate according to the universal rights of man.
BiggsReport 2 years ago
i never said U didn't have any rights to live or there was no laws to protect your life.
when did i write that?
really, "universal human rights" which the UN MADE UP? and said "All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights."
it said BORN in the first sentence, embryos and fetuses are not born yet and doesn't apply, just like the DOI and 14th amendment.
nothing, not one word but unborn and their rights to life!
U have no legal argument against abortion.
FREEAMERICANOW69 2 years ago
Oh and Biggs,
You're also right about the universal human rights.
The constitution and its amendments do Not grant those rights to anyone it merely recognizes them.
The other one here the so called freeam, guy seems to forget the Scott Peterson case and many other similar cases in whcih the pre born are recognized as having a right to live.
cont..
ThomasJS1 2 years ago
Or if we're talking about human beings being denied their rights I'd point to historical cases like the Dread Scott decision, in which a human being was denied his rights.
The courts are far from infallible.
What's fine and dandy to them one day is completley wrong the next. Obviously we have a history of having idiots in the supreme court and the white house for that matter.
ThomasJS1 2 years ago
i already told you about scott and u chose to ignore that he was convicted of a double standard.
like the 14th amendment...remember!
he was going to get life for lacy and the judge threw the fetus to bring to ppl attention that you don't kill pregnant women.
btw bush half way got rid of abortion and keep a part of it legal...google partial birth abortion ban
FREEAMERICANOW69 2 years ago
Bush was playing politics nothing more. Like you said he got rid of partial birth abortions. Than why didn't he do a thing about all the rest? He did nothing more than stop some funding. Not much of a big deal to a multi billion dollar industry.
I've said this other places and will say it here. The government and rulers of this country since I've been alive are mostly trash who care about nothing but, their own agendas.
ThomasJS1 2 years ago
Ahh here's another scott for you.
Namrata Ceisel, Scott
was charged with third-degree assault and with second-degree murder of an unborn child, according to Ramsey County prosecutors.
Woman was only 12 weeks pregnant. Google it.
You're right it's a double standard. So obviously women who kill their unborn children should be charged with murder as well.
Or is it that a woman's whim decides when you magically become a human being?
There are plenty of cases like the above one.
ThomasJS1 2 years ago
Call it a double standard all you want.
But, I say the mere fact that people have been charged with murdering pre born humans is precedent to charge women who've had abortions with murder.
I'm considering testing that.
ThomasJS1 2 years ago
wrong!
the embryo isn't a legal person and scott was change with murdering fetus and that sentence should be thrown out.
you don't know anything about law, do u? and yeah get is whim.
testing that in your dreams!
FREEAMERICANOW69 2 years ago
Well obviously an embryonic human being IS a legal person.
Or are you denying the reality of the many cases in which people were charged with their murders?
Go back to burying your head in the sand.
ThomasJS1 2 years ago
no, google legal person?
you can't be a legal person w/o being BORN first!
we been though this... how r u going to get rid of abortion , if u don't know LAW?
FREEAMERICANOW69 2 years ago
Have'nt we already covered this?
See above cases, You can't be charged with murder unless you killed a Person.
Or here legal person:
:a body of persons or an entity (as a corporation) considered as having many of the rights and responsibilities of a natural person and esp. the capacity to sue and be sued
A natural person is: human being as distinguished from a person (as a corporation) created by operation of law .
Cont..
ThomasJS1 2 years ago
Came back and noticed it didn't take the post. Link here:
dictio nar y . g etle ga l . c o m / n atura l - p erson
Remove spaces.
Interesting bit of info about the Namrata Ceisel, Scott, case.
The woman in this case was Never killed Only her unborn child.
So much for your "judge threw the fetus to bring to ppl attention that you don't kill pregnant women." Theory.
.
ThomasJS1 2 years ago
ok, why is abortion still legal then?
maybe because there's a double standard like i said with the other scott.
she wanted the child= murder
she didn't want the child= abortion=legal
FREEAMERICANOW69 2 years ago
It's Not legal.
Worthless politicians and law makers choose to ignore this fact because the abortion business is a multi million dollar industry for planned parenthood alone.
And how many politicians get contributions from abortionists, I wonder.
It's the same reason slavery was "legal". People were / are making a lot of money off of it.
You can bet if there were billions to be had in rape it would be "legal".
ThomasJS1 2 years ago
yeah, abortion is legal for 40 years!
and they still got rid of slavery when they was money off of it!
abortion is still legal.
i doubt forcing woman in a sexually way would be legal.
FREEAMERICANOW69 2 years ago
Believe what ever you want. Believe in god, believe in santa claus.
Your belief does not alter the truth.
Did you not get the whole slavery point??? Slavery was Never legal, greedy imbeciles ignored that fact to make money. Kind of like abortion.
And how would rape being illegal not be ignored if billions could be hadd from it?
Slaves were tortured, beaten, whipped, and worked to death because a great deel of money was made from it.
Children are killed for money.
cont....
ThomasJS1 2 years ago
When amoral people can make fortunes just by hurting or killing people they will do it. History and present day society has proven this. And of course they all had their supporters who made no money off it. Ignorant fools the whole lot of them.
Done talking with you.
Was as fun as talking with flat-earthers and holocaust deniers.
You've chosen your side and nothing short of a civil war will change that. Oh well many borters are like you. a shame really.
ThomasJS1 2 years ago
Absolutely. Just like the Dred Scott decision, which, through judicial feat instantly made an entire swath of the human race legally "inhuman" for purposes of the US law; the Roe V. Wade case did the same thing. Only difference is that it is based on age, not color.
It was the Declaration of Independence that brought down the constitutional reinterpreters in the 1850s, and it will bring them down today. The Supreme Court was wrong then and is wrong now.
BiggsReport 2 years ago
omigod, google natural person and abortion.
again double standard with the scotts.
but what you fail to realize that natural person is inside a legal person( a part of a corporation i.e. citizen of america ) womb and living off of her , therefore, the government say she is legally within rights to remove that natural person that hasn't born yet...duh!
government picked by her give her that right, if not, abortion would be illegal...duh!
FREEAMERICANOW69 2 years ago
It IS Illegal.
Did you even read the definition???? A natural person IS a legal person, that's the definition.
Feel like I'm talking with a 5th grader here. Sheesh I give up. I'd have a better time talking to a wall.
If they are not legal persons, the scotts would NOT be in prison for murdering them now would they??? no.
Those cases alone, prove it. But, go on believing the earth is flat and that there was no holocaust and the unborn are'nt persons.
ThomasJS1 2 years ago
DO WHAT ABOUT BRAIN DEAD OR PVS PEOPLE?
they're still alive and lost their personhood because of their lost of mentally ability and a doctor kills them too.
what you are too dumb to realize legal person is what actually counts and the difference between a double standard of injustice and what's reality!
mother+abortion= legal murder= in reality( the world you live in, but i doubt it)
man or another woman murder a fetus or embryo = crime= double standard in reality
duh! retard.
FREEAMERICANOW69 2 years ago
Is youir head so far up your ass that you can't see the many cases that exist?
I give up, fuck it. Peace, intelligence, you pro abort scum don't understand these. I think Roeder realized that, and I'm starting to as well.
I've seen your homepage, Would I be correct in presuming you believe a civil war is coming? If so guess which americans I consider enemy #1. And whcih ones I'll hunt down if there is one.
ThomasJS1 2 years ago
i guess when I'm trying to tell you how the world works in reality...which you choose to ignore.
what intelligence that you pro-life ppl have? you have no knowledge of the 14th amendment, declaration of independence, or any law and reality, but yet you claimed to have it!
and bitch and whine about people who do have it! you want to start a civil war to save embryos that you wouldn't even adopt once they been BORN, hell, you won't help SAVE CHILDREN AND BABIES DYING IN AFRICA.
retard.
FREEAMERICANOW69 2 years ago
Retard the best you have?
You imbecilic plebian.
As I said before go back to sucking off the Builderberg group you neo con puppet.
ThomasJS1 2 years ago
i had less than 5 characters left.
please start a civil war for some embryos you wouldn't adopt once they been born or help raise for 18 years.
nevermind, you're too much of a bitch to kill anyone!
too, bad your ignorance starting a civil war will actually help the builderberg group out.
FREEAMERICANOW69 2 years ago
Here are your gods, your messiahs:
Prominent Chicago abortionist Richard Ragsdale made "kiddie porn" featuring his own 3-year-old daughter.
LA Abortionist Dr. Ivan Namihas. Charged with four incidents of rape, 45 incidents of sexual abuse, gross negligence and mail fraud, He impregnated one of his patients,
repeatedly raped his half-sister and has more than 100 patients and former
patients who have reported allegations of medical misconduct or sexual
abuse
Cont..
ThomasJS1 2 years ago
Bruce Steir, an abortionist with a track
record of botched abortions and disciplinary actions. While on medical
probation, he perforated the uterus of Sharon Hamptlon while performing an
abortion on her at A Lady's Choice Women's Medical Center
cont...
ThomasJS1 2 years ago
on December 13,
1996. She later bled to death after arriving home in Barstow. Steir
surrendered his medical license in March of 1997 and was charged with
murder. Though buried in various other complaints of shoddy medical
practice from his patients -- many of whom required surgery by other
physicians to remedy Steir's bad work --
Cont...
ThomasJS1 2 years ago
Steir's cause was taken up by the
National Organization for Women, the National Abortion and Reproductive
Rights Action League, the National Abortion Federation, and Refuse and
Resist. All of these groups argued against filing any charges against
--------------
The list goes on and on and on and on. For every Scott Roeder there's a hundred pedophile, rapist, nut case abortionists.
And people wonder why Roeder snapped and killed Tiller the killer.
ThomasJS1 2 years ago
Didn't we already cover that the bulderbergs Want abortion to continue????
It's the easiest way for them to exterminate you. To get you to be dumb enough and blind enough to do it for them.
Like I said you're a puppet. You may not even realize it but, that's exactly what you are. Who do you think funds planned parenthood the largest abortion provider out there?????
ThomasJS1 2 years ago
I'd suggest that if you're not a puppet that you actually are about freedom that you actually are about true freedom that you watch these:
/watch?v=XGOmlZGqfbg
/watch?v=6l3cV1aNvVc&feature=channel_page
ThomasJS1 2 years ago
i never said they were my messiah, god, you are a retarded! i refused to be force to stay pregnant against my will because of your and others opinion, i don't care about the history behind abortion...if i looked hard enough i would find some evil stuff you pro-life people had done as well.
abortion won't be overturned, so just start your civil war....and die for embryos u won't adopt or care for once they're born.
FREEAMERICANOW69 2 years ago
Like I thought you Are a puppet. just a a wothless little puppet. Go suck off bush and bend over for obama.
ThomasJS1 2 years ago
Look at your own comments. You don't care about history.
No wonder you and those like you repeat history. I'm talking the holocaust here, I'm talking slavery here.
People like you are why history repeats itself.
ThomasJS1 2 years ago
Comment removed
ThomasJS1 2 years ago
feel free to start your civil war, then!
just start it.
FREEAMERICANOW69 2 years ago
Oh I'm not starting anything. But, I sure as hell will be a part of it. Everyone in this country will.
ThomasJS1 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
yeah, sure they havent' joined already because they'll never join.
FREEAMERICANOW69 2 years ago
Just type "don't tread on me" right here on youtube.
Or maybe type" Militia" right here on youtube. Or watch this:
/watch?v=j-XwTCqYoUc&feature=channel
Then go bury your head in the sand again. Don't forget your real ID.
ThomasJS1 2 years ago
You can watch or bury your head in the sand.
/watch?v=qZZHw4ssCOA&feature=related
/watch?v=E9a-fmpdWWQ
Would you like more? Or would you prefer the sand?
ThomasJS1 2 years ago
a militia that won't do anything but talk about nothing.
yeah, i really see that civil war coming soon lol!
FREEAMERICANOW69 2 years ago
teeheeheehee
ever notice how the vast majority of those against abortion are those that cant have 'em?
FrFreakyFrankFurter 2 years ago
I KNOW!
it's a control issue, but if abortion wasn't legal, these same people would be bitching about the over population in the USA in the early 90's, the greater crime wave and bigger pollution problems that comes long with it... instead of doing it right now!
if they love embryos SO MUCH...they should adopt a child or saved children in Africa...but of course THEY hate born children and women's civil rights to their bodies.
FREEAMERICANOW69 2 years ago
pigs will fly way before that happens
FrFreakyFrankFurter 2 years ago
tommy...are u constantly rejected by women in real life?
if not, then why the obsessive urge to control women?
FrFreakyFrankFurter 2 years ago
@BiggsReport Well, you may recall "The right to LIFE, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." Women who are forced to carry fetuses to term and then deliver them are deprived of all three of these.
SickMouth 1 year ago
@SickMouth And a woman who is unhappy with her living children is also deprived - she should be able to murder them as well.
GTBeauregard 2 days ago
@GTBeauregard "Living" and "children" being the key words here. Children can feel and suffer. Fetuses cannot. There is the difference. Your comparison is invalid.
SickMouth 2 days ago
@SickMouth What is your definition of a fetus? A 40 wk fetus can most definitely feel pain.
GTBeauregard 1 day ago
@GTBeauregard Fetuses can't feel anything until the third trimester, and by this time hardly ANYONE gets an abortion. The VAST (like 98%) majority of abortions occur before this point.
SickMouth 1 day ago
@SickMouth Where did you get that? Organogenesis ends at the 8th week - first trimester; at this point the brain is formed. Regardless, are you saying its ok to murder as long as the person doesn't feel pain and/or is unaware of his/her death?
GTBeauregard 1 day ago
@GTBeauregard The brain might be formed in the 8th week, but the neuropassages required for fetuses to have any type of pain signal sent to the brain is not there. The brain is disconnected from the body and cannot perceive pain until 20 weeks later. See the 2005 article from Discover Magazine by Elise Kleeman entitled "When Does a Fetus Feel Pain?" You can search for it on discovermagazine (dot) com.
SickMouth 1 day ago
They are not an American citizen until they are born.
Not born = not protected under the constitution.
TheBlueDuckMOE 2 years ago
I'm glad you as the only authority on the subject set me straight. Just because the paper work isn't filled out it dose not make it right. this subject is alot more complex then that. Nothing is black and white.
jsh78mang 2 years ago
If your logic is:
Not Born = Not Protected Under the Constitution
Becuase, Not Born = Not Citizen
Then your dead wrong. So long as your in the United States you are protected by the U.S. constition.
HumanRights4Everyone 2 years ago
Not born=not yet a human
TheBlueDuckMOE 2 years ago
FAIL AGAIN.
Two human beings cannot create any thing but a human being. It's biologically impossible for a two members of the same species to create something not of their species that sudenly beomes thier species after gestation.
Their no scientific difference between a child about to be born and a child who has just been born. With all the advances in embrology over the past few decade even the most pro-abortion have had to admit the humanity of children in the womb.
HumanRights4Everyone 2 years ago 2
I guess I disagree. My girlfriend has already had two! And she will have another if I have anything to do with it!
TheBlueDuckMOE 2 years ago
Disagree with what? Human life, like all life of mammals begins at conception. This is not a a debate in the scientific commnity. All honest abortion advocates must support argue from the premisr that abortion kills an innocent, distint human being without due process of law.
HumanRights4Everyone 2 years ago
I would like to ask you if you think we should have water boarded those non American citizens in Guantanamo, and held them without trial. If you say we should not have, then clearly you think that non American citizens have some kind of rights. Our Declaration of Independence states that all men are endowed with rights; not "born with", "endowed with".
Also the "non-human" argument is absurd according to genetics and biology.
BiggsReport 2 years ago
wrong!
abortion is legal because of the the embryo or fetus not a legal person until it's born and granted citizenship, it's doesn't have protection and why take away some else's liberty and happiness and give to a embryo that is attach a woman, a legal person who don't want it inside her!...that embryo and fetus is not a person yet and what makes him human isn't develop yet.
like the reason why a doctor can kill a brain-dead person who is still alive but what makes him human is gone.
FREEAMERICANOW69 2 years ago
Did you not read what was written directly above your post? We are not "born with certain unalienable rights" we are "endowed with certain unalienable rights". Rights were never predicated on birth, or any baby cut out by C-section prematurely would not be a citizen. The class of human beings have the right to live. If a fetus is of that class (and it scientifically is) then it does too. It is simple logic.
BiggsReport 2 years ago
i thought you was smart, i guess not! in the DOI, only "MEN" have those rights...it doesn't women ,or children, or slaves having unalienable rights to life, liberty and happiness...those people's rights was added later in other amendments.
so why would a embryo has that right, if it wasn't a man?
there is no where in law RIGHT NOW saying an embryo or fetus has right to life! only in the heads of few people and they're willing to force and get rid of a woman's right to her own body.
FREEAMERICANOW69 2 years ago
I am not sure why I'm justifying this with a response...
Ever hear the term "mankind"? It means all of humanity. I suppose you don't like the term humanity either and want "huwomanity", but honestly, our language is constructed the way it is, I didn't do it. The Declaration means all humans have a right to life when it says "all men"; it is the way people talked in the 1700s. I frankly like it better than our modern, "gender neutral" BS PC speak today.
BiggsReport 2 years ago
read it again, since there is no amendment for embryos and fetuses= no protect because OUR government not secure their rights.
just like slaves and women until the gov made for laws for them,because the DOL said men and meant men not human.
plus, the gov said you have protection when you're born and when you have a SSN/ birth certificate not before and that why abortion is legal.
the life of unborn doesn't trump a citizen.
what is humane? forcing a woman to remain pregnant against HER will
FREEAMERICANOW69 2 years ago
Are you drunk or just dumb?
A citizen can't legally kill a non-citizen, face it, citizenship is irrlevant to the abortion debate.
HumanRights4Everyone 2 years ago
R U just retarded or just retarded?
how can you be pro-life and not know anything about how the laws work with abortion?
funny, none of you guys know how of American laws work!
what do U think about abortion is? killing a non-citizen human, a person not protected under the law.
you can't kill a born, non-citizen like a illegal alien without justification for it like they endangering your life and the lives of your family...duh!
FREEAMERICANOW69 2 years ago
What is exactly is "wrong!".
No shit children in the womb aren't considered legal persons, otherwise abortion would be illegal. The argument is whether they should be considered legal persons, I say yes, that all human beings should be considered legal persons.
Oh, and you don't have to be a citizen to be protected by the constition, do you really think its legal to arbitarly kill non-citizens you are in this.
They're not citizens but they are human beings and should be legal persons.
HumanRights4Everyone 2 years ago 2
again, your opinion!
duh...treaties and agreements between countries, no one was saying there wasn't any, and no, i don't feel we kill should illegal aliens w/o reason.
FREEAMERICANOW69 2 years ago
So you believe that even one hour before birth an abortion can take place?
Cocalighto 2 years ago
Yes
TheBlueDuckMOE 2 years ago
At least you dare to come out with your wicked views, just like Hitler.
Cocalighto 2 years ago
If it's ok to terminate a baby an hour before normal birth, why not an hour after? What is the difference? Do you also support the euthanasia of unproductive people like the mentally challenged and elderly?
PS; Declaration of independence says "all men are endowed with ....rights" NOT "born with".
BiggsReport 2 years ago
I support birth control (contraceptives) but not abortion. Abortion is not birth control, it is the elimination of a being that can become a valuable member of society.
DarkWarrior450 2 years ago
I am anti-abortion but pro-choice for the very reason that the practicalities of making abortion illegal when millions of women every year have this procedure would produce a totalitarian society.
Millions of women would be murderers and in most US states murder is a capital crime. So millions of women would be incarcerated in maximum prisons awaiting lethal injection.
Never mind the morality, how much would that cost the economy?
swansandtyphus 2 years ago
Somehow I don't think that you would end up with millions of women on death row just by removing the blanket protection for abortion at the Federal level. Nor would protecting innocent life create a totalitarian society.
Somehow, morality speaks stronger than economics; but what is moral usually turns out to be more economical in the end as well.
BiggsReport 2 years ago
Have you spoken to anti-abortionists?
They think women who have abortions are murderers. They want to lock up women who have abortions and they want measures introduced to prevent women from having abortions. Would every woman who has a pregnancy be held against her will to prevent her from killing the foetus? How about preventing women from travelling outside of the country to a jurisdiction where abortion is legal? Tyranny would be the inevitable result.
swansandtyphus 2 years ago
So then, because we don't want the mothers who want to kill their babies killing themselves, lets keep it legal? HUH? Maybe if they had to risk their own lives to murder the baby, they would consider giving the baby life. It is not a "choice", it is a baby. AMERICA WILL NOT REJECT ABORTION UNTIL AMERICA SEES ABORTION.
angelshoulders 2 years ago
No. Those who believe in protecting life also believe in innocence until proven guilty and due process under law. Abortion is murder but we would no more lock up every pregnant woman than we would lock up every rightful owner of a gun (for hunting or self-defense).
Your scare tactics are horribly misguided. If you actually believe that, I feel sorry for you. If someone brainwashed you with such childish scare tactics, its time to grow up and learn something about a nation under the rule of law
herbs814 2 years ago
"Those who believe in protecting life also believe in innocence until proven guilty and due process under law."
So you are basically saying you think it would be rational and feasible to actually try each and every women who has an abortion for murder?
You are batshit insane.
swansandtyphus 2 years ago
First; if the Federal blanket law is repealed, then the States would deal with this their own way, none of which would involve trying to arrest people for doing something that was legal at the time they did it.
Second, try to keep your comments civil. You do not have to be crude to be concise. I will zap unduly foul language here.
BiggsReport 2 years ago
Sorry for the foul language.
I'm just frustrated that anyone would believe it is reasonable or feasible to try the women who have abortions for murder.
swansandtyphus 2 years ago
Until the law actually reflects reality, people currently only have to answer for God for their sins. The good news is:
"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness."
God can even forgive abortion, provided there is a real confession and conversion to turn from such rebellious disregard for human life.
For now, the federal government forces the states to condone abortion (murder). Those who protect life should be outraged
herbs814 2 years ago
God does not exist.
If God is willing and able to prevent evil then why does it happen?
If God is not willing but able then he is evil isn't he?
If God is willing but not able then he is not omnipotent is he?
If God is not willing and not able then why call him God?
Think about it.
swansandtyphus 2 years ago
Satan creates evil because he hates God. And he separates people from God by casting doubt about His love for us. Satan must be allowed to work his plan to prove to the angels and to fallen man the evil of Satan's ways and the pain that they cause.
There's still no way to justify murdering innocent children, whether or not you've found God. Abortion is murder and no excuse can change that.
herbs814 2 years ago
You don't seem to understand.
If God is all powerful, then we couldn't possibly have free wil. God would know in advance what good or evil we would commit wouldn't he and everything that happens including good and evil in the world would have to be God's doing or else God is not all powerful and is not God. In fact we would have no choice but to do God's will so if we commit evil we would be doing what God wants.
God is responsible for earthquakes, floods and plagues that kill innocents.
swansandtyphus 2 years ago
May 05, 2009
Fifty-eight percent (58%) of Americans say abortion is morally wrong most of the time. Only twenty-five percent (25%) disagree.
Sixty-four percent (64%) of women believe most abortions are morally wrong, a view shared by 51% of men. Eighty-eight percent (88%) of pro-lifers agree, as do 29% of those who are pro-choice.
Most Americans (52%) now think it is too easy to get an abortion in America.
Those who see nothing wrong with murdering unborn children are in the minority.
herbs814 2 years ago
Tho I agree with you it is others rights to believe anything they want. You can not make them think your way. We all need to except each other for who we are.
jsh78mang 2 years ago
I wonder how much Obama's sig
angelshoulders 2 years ago
OBAMA is doing what he said he would do. Yes, the reversal of the ban on money for foreign abortions that President Obama signed is a red flag and the tip of the iceberg. Obama Promised CHANGE and HOPE. "Where there is LIFE there is HOPE" and signing this Mexico City Pro-Abortion death warrant approving that our tax dollars pay for millions of 3rd world children to be aborted worldwide is definitely a betrayal of the trust that many people like myself have placed in him. How much will it cost
angelshoulders 2 years ago
life begins at coception because you can not bypass this stage in order to have life, therefore it is the beginning.
A human begins at 46 chromozones.
and at conception we are all very much prolife.
dard1313 2 years ago 3
Umm...no.
crosswalkernie 2 years ago
Abortion is a brave and responsible decision as often as it is a selfish one, no two cases are the same and that is why we have to keep the law and enforced morality out of it.
Pinguinoasado 2 years ago
How "brave" or "responsible" the decision is is totally irrelevant if the fetus is a human being subject to human rights.
BiggsReport 2 years ago
Appreciate your well argued video. I really struggle with this difficult subject, but I still cannot help coming down on the side of pro-abortion. Despite your legal and scientific arguments I cannot accept the equality of a foetus with a sentient adult, nor that its birth at any cost is always the best option for itself, its mother or society as a whole. The state has no business legislating in these matters, it is much too important for that!!
Pinguinoasado 2 years ago
Thanks, good to know I have stirred up some thinking on this. If you note, I did not argue for it's birth at any cost, since it is certainly no more valuable than it's mother. It may interest you to know that abortion is legal in the USA because of the government legislating in this area.If you are talking about human rights; the state does not have to legislate your right not to be killed. It is considered fundamental.
Thanks for the thoughtful comment.
BiggsReport 2 years ago
How about the equality of a fetus and an infant? Is one more human than the other?
I think he made it pretty clear that if the mother's life is in danger a choice has to be made.
My brother and his wife had to make that choice. She had pre eclampsia and went into a coma at 5 1/2 months. The baby boy was delivered and everything possible was done to save him, but it was too early and he died after four days. They didn't just say, "Well, it was just a fetus" They MOURNED the loss of their son.
bookhound63 2 years ago
Well, bookhound, I am very sorry that things didn't work out for your brother and his wife. It was obviously a very wanted baby and must have been a devastating loss. This is not the case with all pregnancies however, and my point is simply that abortion can in many cases be the lesser of two evils and people should have both the ability and the support to make the correct decision for their own circumstances.
Pinguinoasado 2 years ago
Inconvenience is not a circumstance.There are thousands of parents who would take an unwanted child. Inconvenience says, "I was irresponsible and now I am pregnant. Its inconvenient for me to be pregnant at this time. (Even though I KNEW that unprotected sex would lead to pregnancy.) So rather than carry this THING in my body for the next few months and "inconvenience" myself, I will just get rid of it and act like it never happened. The only problem is, the memory never goes away. (Continued..)
bookhound63 2 years ago
Women who have had abortions are HAUNTED by their actions. Ask the lady who was referred to as Jane Row in ROE vs WADE. She was arrested TODAY for protesting Obama's speech at Notre Dame because SHE IS NOW PRO-LIFE!
How do you think she feels knowing a LAW was created because of her that allows babies to be murdered? (Continued...)
bookhound63 2 years ago
These women don't just forget, they have nightmares.
They end up reacting in one of three ways. Either they become anti-abortion activists, or they actively HATE anyone who says that what they did was wrong. OR, they stew in their own guilt and battle bouts of depression while remaining silent. Abortion KILLS, not just the child but the spirit of the mother.
bookhound63 2 years ago
Inconvenient? Irresponsible? It is not always so frivolous! Tell a rape victim she must suffer 9 months of unwanted pregnancy and emotional turmoil before she can start to recover. The mother whose unborn baby is diagnosed with special needs has a right to be able to decide not to mortgage her life to the needs of another. Who is anyone to tell the brilliant teenager that her academic future is in tatters because the condom broke?
Pinguinoasado 2 years ago
Only 5% of abortions are because of rape. So we are really talking about the vast majority of abortions here not 5%. If a woman is raped and becomes pregnant (which is rare) and she decides to terminate that LIFE she will have to live with that decision and you don't know WHAT pain she will go through knowing she killed someone who was made from half HER DNA. (continued...)
bookhound63 2 years ago
you don't know WHAT pain she will go through knowing she killed someone who was made from half HER DNA
She has a right to pain, she has a right to choice. The State has no right to stop her, only to inform, council, support and provide access to medical expertise. It is the duty of the State to ensure that abortion is not driven underground.
Pinguinoasado 2 years ago
Mothers have had children who were diagnosed with special needs for YEARS. We got by. We handled the hand we were dealt. According to your argument Stephen Hawkins should have been aborted . God forbid that your mother had found out how ignorant you would be. She might have aborted you.
A brilliant teenager should know that sex results in pregnancy and condoms break. And her academic career doesn't have to be in tatters because she had a baby.
bookhound63 2 years ago
Mothers have had children who were diagnosed with special needs for YEARS. We got by. We handled the hand we were dealt.
You are welcome to get by if you so choose, but there is more than one way to handle the hand you are dealt. You want to force everyone to handle it your way, no matter what the context! Things are not that black and white, and we are now sufficiently advanced to not have to just get by anymore.
Pinguinoasado 2 years ago
Ping, we are now sufficiently advanced!?!? Advanced enough to kill our own young, to stand by and watch others kill their babies!?! Is this the voice of Hitler? We need to make up our minds about abortion. Human wrong or human right? This has to be the worst ever case of double standards in human history, when abortion is 'all wrong' if it doesn't suit us, yet 'alright' if it does
angelshoulders 2 years ago
Don't get me wrong angelshoulders, I said right at the outset that this was an issue I struggle with. But I am strongly against the state dictating morality. It is the job of our governments to provide the infrastructures, expertise and means to enable society to function. It should also ensure alternatives to abortion and encourage their deployment, but I do not believe that it is the business of government to dictate that choice de facto. That is the job of family, counselors and communities.
Pinguinoasado 2 years ago
According to your argument Stephen Hawkins should have been aborted
We lose a potential Stephen Hawking every time a priest abstains. We lose an Einstein every time a wife has a headache. We lose a Marie Curie every time a science geek jerks off. Thats life. Hawking, by the way wasnt diagnosed until he was at university, otherwise, who knows?
Pinguinoasado 2 years ago
No, we don't. An egg is not a human, neither is a sperm. It takes both to make a baby. Women were created to BE ABLE to get pregnant once a month, not to GET pregnant once a month. Nature supplies one egg a month. It also supplies millions of sperm a month. It is only when the sperm and egg come together that Life begins. Its actually amazing how infrequently sex results in pregnancy. A woman is only fertile for about 3 days per month. I guess God took that into account.
bookhound63 2 years ago
That about sums up the cause behind our difference of opinion I think. We were not CREATED to be able to get pregnant once a month, we EVOLVED that way. GOD is not taking anything into account. We are not messing up some grand plan when we abort, we are just making the best of our lives.. Irreconcilable differences I suppose?
Pinguinoasado 2 years ago
Oh! OK, so survival of the fittest reigns supreme? Then lets kill all the people who need a warning on their hairdryer not to use it in the shower. and those who need a warning that Preparation H is not toothpaste. That should make humanity healthy.
bookhound63 2 years ago 2
"God forbid that your mother had found out how ignorant you would be. She might have aborted you."
Why, thank you Madam!
Pinguinoasado 2 years ago
Well, she might have. I don't know.
bookhound63 2 years ago
(continued) I didn't go to college until I was 30, after I raised my kids. It didn't hurt me, in fact it helped me because I was more mature.
bookhound63 2 years ago
Just a thought.
Don't you become an american citizen and have civil rights when you are "born" in america?
First you must be "born" in "america" before you become an american citizen or have civicl rights. I think it should be a personal choice.
Please comment.
prlatinwiz 2 years ago
It's a point. You wouldn't technically be a citizen. Yet the text I use when thinking of this is "...all men are endowed with certain unalienable rights by their creator, that chief among them are life..."
They do not say "are born with" they say are "endowed" with. Universal Rights of Man apply to all humans; I just think that science classifies a fetus as human is all.
Also; look at the Gitmo argument; we apply universal rights to non citizens or there wouldnt be any controversy.
BiggsReport 2 years ago
How can a faith-tard possibly give a 'secular' argument?
Know what the difference is between pro-choice and anti abortionists? Zealot thinking comes from an emotional reaction or the other way around. Where rational objectivity involves seeing things from the bigger picture. Terminating the life of one unwanted fetus prevents the birth of one unwanted child this has an exponential effect on society. Good thing the people who created abortion laws were rational thinkers eh?
AuShawster 2 years ago
There is nothing more valuable or fundamental than human life. That is why we are a democratic society, since we believe in the Universal Rights of Man and want to maximize human freedom. Abortion is an issue primarily depending on what you classify (or do not classify) as "human" and therefore subject to those rights.
Also; continue to simply throw meaningless insults instead of arguments, and you will be blocked from commenting.
BiggsReport 2 years ago
Comment removed
AuShawster 2 years ago
So what are your views on capital punishment or allowing children to starve to death or to be gunned down then?
So what did I say that was was such a meaningless insult? Are you or are you not viewing the live of the fetus from a moral or " faith-tarded" point of view?
AuShawster 2 years ago
Just watch the video; it's all in there.
BiggsReport 2 years ago
You have completely missed the point. There has never been an argument on whether human fetuses are people or not. What did you think pro choice people think ?
Before babies are born the are french poodles?
A good number of pregnancies self terminate. GOD IS A BABY KILLER
AuShawster 2 years ago
Actually, a thinking liberal believes that human life is valuable; they say that a fetus has an undeveloped nervous system and therefore is not fully human yet; they compare killing it to killing skin cells.
You are obviously not a thinking liberal, and you still haven't even watched the video.
Stop trolling on my channel.
BiggsReport 2 years ago
I am sorry I am not as impressed with your brilliance as you are.
AuShawster 2 years ago
So am I... unfortunately, not everybody can appreciate brilliance.
;-)
BiggsReport 2 years ago
See, you devalue your argument just by using a derogatory term off the bat. Your biggest failing is being so blinded by your hubris that you believe people of faith have little intelligence. Life is not thought, life is not even birth. Protists are living creatures but have never been birthed or gestated. Your comparison of abortion to capital punishment is impossible without advanced ethical stoichiometry. Capital punishment involves a guilty party, abortion involves a helpless one.
Thebboss 2 years ago 2
Comment removed
LiberalElitistMedia 2 years ago
Thebboss What wonderful philosophical nonsense!.
You are not going to prevent unwanted pregnancies by
forcing people to bring unwanted children into the world.
Yesterday senior republicans gave a press conference. It is been the catering to the right wing extremist base of the party that has turned mainstream America against the party. A decision was reached that RvW will not longer be a campaign issue.
LiberalElitistMedia 2 years ago
Sadly, I am not a republican. To hell with the party, I'm a conservative. If you don't want a child, get a shot, an IUD, a condom. There are options. The reason the Republicans lose is because their old senile senior leaders refuse to go home. The main function of intercourse is reproduction. That's like idiots who eat too much and complain about getting fat. You can't do something and complain about consequence.
Thebboss 2 years ago 3
Are you saying that only Atheistic Preachers can argue a secular point, AuShawster? That's silly...
TedVoron 2 years ago 2
No No I am only suggesting that someone who actually understands the scientific method for archiving objectivity can usually see subjective bullshit even when is is made to sound logical. At least Biggs was impressed with it.
This guy is a lot like that venomfangX
AuShawster 2 years ago
It's great to see non-Christians also showing concerning about the issue of abortion. Unfortunately most people think "Oh well, only those CHRISTIANS are concerned about the issue." Anyway, I will be watching more of your vids.
occles 2 years ago
Great video.
freetoseektruth 2 years ago