Recently watch a TV drama in HK about Butterfly lovers story. Such a romatic sad love story happened in ancient China. Every time when hear this music, tears full in my eyes. I love the music so much.
Excellent music belongs to everyone in the whole world.
@lovelesliehkfan, dude, the ancient Chinese is much much more romantic and erotic than modern Chinese. Historical Ancient China has been a very sexually open and romantic nation. The extremety of sexual liberalism occured in the Tang/Song dynasties where the first erotica ever written by human was written during this time. Sexual repression happened only recently in Chinese history and mostly as a result of subjugation by the nomatic Mongols and Manchus.
Such an international conversation here. I =American. Butterfly Lovers' Concerto is my favorite piece of music,period, from
1st time heard. Vanessa Mae's 1997 CD via a CD store PA. Didn't know story,didn't know history, didn't know Vanessa Mae; just knew best thing for my soul's health. Since then researched all and now have fuller understanding BUT that 1st hearing was fully potent without the rest. The work speaks on its own. It told me everything I needed to know really. Still does. Luv
title from the movie that played had this song. It's the Chinese love/tragedy. Sort of the Chinese Romeo and Juliet story but much better and sadder to me in relation.
title from the movie that played had this song. It's the Chinese love/tragedy. Sort of the Chinese Romeo and Juliet story but much better and sadder to me in relation.
This violin master is coming to play with our local youth orchestra, but our youth orchestra doesn't need me to play the introduction part. :( I played with smooth misterious introduction, whereas many played very actively which I think is not appropriate.
I have to say, I saw your video on the intro and it seems that what you said is the right idea; but your rendering is different from what you say. The character of how it's written begs to be played like how it is; a little on the happy and jumpy side. In my opinion. If you are talking about changing the intro a bit, it might make it so that it's putting the spotlight on the flute and not the violin...also in which, would have to slow the first verse to account for the slower intro.
It's a shame that lovers can loose their way because of one moment in time that can change their lives forever. We forget how little time we have in this world that we don't cherish the one in front of us and make amends to try again. Once the chance is gone it is gone forever. True love will never find us again.
seriously, who cares what instrument its written for. its good music, so appreciate it. if even the original composer of this song was moved to tears when he heard this rendition of it on the concert, we arn't exactly in a position to critique it much. after all, he's should know best what it should sound like =]
There is something missing, and it is the element of culture. Notice that this is played by western instruments, but the traditional Chinese orchestra has a special flavor when performing this legendary love story, gives that extra intimacy. It is slowly fading out, which is too bad. The solo violin is meant to be on erhu
I care less if it was written for the bagpipe. Butterfly is a Chinese folklore/story, Yellow River and Butterfly presented through western instrumentation just don't have the same cultural color.
It does, if it was written for it. It doesnt automatically sound better if it were played on an erhu, due to the fact that he played it so the violin could portray the story. It wasnt meant for the erhu to do that.
Really? you should ask the generation of people who grew up listen and watched Chinese opera. You may be right about the era part. The authenticity of a piece especially one with deep roots such as the Butterfly, emphasizes the melodic as well as the medium of which it is expressed in (instrumentation). To the western ears, it satisfies the melodic need of our ears, but the instrumentation calls for one that is more traditional to convey its flavor fully contin..
Now I haven't studied the make up of "Butterfly" enough, therefore my points are more directed at "The Yellow River" violin and erhu have very distinct timbre, implying a totally different mood, do you think a Vivaldi Violin works could be played on erhu? maybe so, but it would sound different to the western ears, even aweful, it's the same principle here, or better yet, Mahler trumpet part on suona, or Dvorak oboe solo on guan, Chinese oboe, how do you think it's going to sound?
I have played Chinese erhu songs on the violin to great ovations. It does not sound half as bad as you may think. Maybe not as good as it is on the erhu, but not awful. Playing a song on a different instrument isn't bad, it's how good the player of the instrument is. People have played classical music on electrical guitars and still get people who enjoy it.
You can play Chinese pieces on whatever I could care less. That simply is just not my point which I have explained at length. A pieces can be arranged upside down if it has order and convincing, but my point is the degree of authenticity of in respect to a piece, especially when it is culturally rooted like these two. You're stuck on a piece of pie called instrumentation when I am trying to talk about the flavor of the entire pie in relation to that one piece you're holding.
will you strike the hearts and spirits of the Chinese listener with a western interpretation . Playing certain music on different instruments, will you allow "gimmick, or experiment" conveyed to the audience? you play butterfly or any folksong on erhu, you bring back memories and grab hearts. Rather than just showing folks a interesting rendition of culture mix or just the fact you can do it.
How can you bring back memories of something if it were meant to be written for something else? If an American wrote a book about Europe in American style, it wouldn't bring back memories for the European.
Of course it does. When I perform, depending on the piece, I think of the saddest or most exciting moments of my life. But Chinese people who listened to this would not invoke memories of an erhu because it was written for a violin. It's not meant to be played an erhu, and according to your logic, automatically sounds better on a violin.
But what happens when music embodies more than just your personal feelings? and you are quite wrong on the second part, as I have pointed it out, although it is a "Violin Concerto" the foundation of concerto are filled with colorful folk tunes. What year are you in Juilliard? Please explain to me what are the some, or core elements consisted in a folk song/tune?
It's my second year in the pre-college division. Folk songs are songs played with a certain pattern relating to the culture that the folk song is from. It is passed down from generation to generation. However, this is not a folk tale. It is a story. Stories do not have to be played by one instrument to tell it, as long as the player is passionate enough and has experience with his instrument.
Well, kiddo, it seems like you're pretty much set on the part of "stories do not have to be played by one instrument to tell it" bravo to your conviction. If you are accepted into Juilliard, then you'll learn about this during your soph or junior year, if they still offer this kind of class. There is more than a player's passion and experience with his instrument, always.
How do you know? Based on how you classified this piece as a bad music piece and the Yellow River concerto, which is admittedly not that great, you obviously are not a good critic in the field of music. There is nothing you need besides your passion to make a musical instrument sound pleasing.
After I have just schooled your ass and you want to turn the table around and accuse me of being a bad critic? You haven't provided me with worthy views except player being passion and make their music pleasing. That view is middle school at best. I travel, I read, I perform and i listen. That's how I know.
See now, your problem is that you don't know when to stop. If you know you beat me and I stopped responding, it's obvious you win and I can't find any faults. I am in middle school. I say you dont know when to stop because this could have stopped after the third post, but you just keep talking. And good critics dont care if they win. They state their opinion, stop arguing. If theyre a good critic, they state their opinion and drop everything else.
frankly, my problems is that I kept waiting for you to ask me some good questions or tell me in your own experiences with culture music. Ya know, you can learn a lot more just as I could from you. Good critics don't drop, they discusses and continue if the material is worth discussing.
I don't have too much experience with culture music. This isn't culture or folk music, it's merely a Chinese story portrayed by American instruments. Good critics discuss, sure, but after the person you are arguing with loses, they dont curse and say they schooled them. That is a bad critic, taking every small victory with a 7th grader and announcing it to the world.
abusedconvict said: "How do you know? Based on how you classified this piece as a bad music piece and the Yellow River concerto, which is admittedly not that great, you obviously are not a good critic in the field of music. There is nothing you need besides your passion to make a musical instrument sound pleasing."
This is your own post, accusing me of being a bad critic, my post was a reaction to you.
The performance of this player and orchestra was never in question here, but you failed to understand my point, and that is the AUTHENTICITY of it, or any piece. So instead of trying to understand or ask, you think I'm attacking this performance? That is funny.
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It's not technically attacking if you aren't telling them directly, but you are insulting them if you say his piece was not as good as it could have been. And if you say it is not authentic, you are saying it is fake, which is not true.
an erhu player would tell you this piece is not meant for western stage, and your logic is hilarious because as an orchestra player I have played the orchestral version of this and musicians in the orchestra asked this very same questions, often come to the very same conclusion. Composers even specify their intention when they write a piece, if a piece is transcribed to suit another voice, then it is altered from its oringinality.
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What the hell do you mean not meant for western stage? The composer of this piece said himself that this piece is meant to have a twist by using western instruments. If the composer says what is meant by his piece, then it goes.
I know some basic info on the piece and some trivial info on why it was written. But I know the tale of the Butterfly Lovers extremely well. I have no idea who wrote it, but it states on nearly every site that it has a western twist and that this composer was experimenting. However, I don't know who it is.
Listen to me very carefully, don't come to youtube or any website and expect people to take you seriously using the name of Juilliard to have respect shown to you. These biographical information is basic, you don't know who wrote it? when it's written tell me that it's got twists and meant for western stage? You take yourself fool and your teacher failed to teach you this point. Always, ALWAYS! know who when, how, where and what reason a piece is created.
I addressed this question of composers who composed/edited this work was toward to abusedconvict, who did not even know at least the names but insisted on having a musicological argument based on individual performance realization.
Perhaps to you the understanding or the musicological aspect of a composition is secondary, the ability to understand to the overall execution and delivery, it nonetheless is a vital part of any performance. The difference of what makes a musician a good or bad story teller, is how much you understand the story that you convey through music. It's like saying you don't need to understand Romeo and Juliet, or Tristan and Islode to play the music written for these settings.
Now, I don't know the story of Beowulf that well other than what I've read, but if I am playing a tone poem based on this old English prose, then I would need to know more about the story in order to convey the music effectively. This process is inseparable and a must for performers. If I go to a performance, information about the piece, composer, performer, or even perhaps why the performance was given would be fulfilling, and worth my money.
You understand, that if you bring a piece such as this one to an audition, this is what they would listen for right? Not only your passion, but how much you know about the piece and how much you can bring that out. Look, if you don't feel happy because your ego refrains yourself from a "youtuber" giving you these views, just don't post stuff to me, I would rather speak to someone who knows what's going on, saving myself time and wasted intellectual energy.
I have performed this piece to an audience before. They all were Chinese, besides my teacher. Every single one of them gave me an ovation. And this was on violin. I never said you dont need to know about ht piece or what you can bring out. I said that it can sound just as good on a violin than an erhu. What kind of "intellectual critic" forgets what he was arguing about? How much you know about the piece doesn't do with the instrument, it's about how well you can portray the story being told.
You didn't get the pie comparison? Look I don't mean to be rude, just because you have an ovation doesn't the music was perfectly delivered, it may just mean gesture of support.
It had many, many people. I highly doubt everyone would stand up and clap for that long without really meaning it. People even said it was beautiful and sad after. It's not about what critics think for music, it's what the people listening think. And if they enjoy it, that is what counts.
I already said it, a well played erhu. The fact that it is on erhu, and well played, already accounts for 90 percent of the good performance. You don't hear things too well do you? Why do I have to repeat to you so often?
Well according to your logic, how well a musician plays has nothing to do with their passion and performance. I'm not hearing it. You have to repeat it because you're stubborn and keep on talking even after I can't find an argument to counter your own, creating holes in your argument.
No. passion is a prerequiste, I am telling you that you need more there just passion. I said it multiple times and are you that accomplished that you don't need to listen to words careful as you would to notes?
And I have said many, many times that you don't need any more than passion and basic knowledge of violin or any instrument to make a piece sound good. How else do child prodigies play level one pieces so amazingly? They put all their heart and soul into it, and people can tell.
But that simply is just irrelevant, do you think players can just practice, with passion, and perform, with passion and have standing ovations? Where did you get that mentality from? I don't know any child prodigies who gerw up just play passionately and don't learn anything else. If you think this way, then sorry to say, you've been misled and your future as a musician relying on just passion, will only take you so long.
Passion with simple music is much better than extremely hard music with no passion. It's better to hear a Vivaldis Concerto in A Minor played with passion than a La Ronde des Lutins with a non-interested violinist. Playing many simple things amazingly is better than playing hard things without any heart.
I must apologize in advance, but you as a musician expect me to listen to you talk passion and interesting twist on a piece which you don't even have the discipline, completely made our conversation pointless. I thought by seeing you as a Juilliard player you would have some knowledge clearly, not even the basics, thanks for wasting my time.
And I would have thought that you, as a critic, would do the thing a smart critic does and tries to see things from the listeners point of view. It's not what you say that counts, it's what the listeners think. And your posts are completely useless if you are not thinking from their point of view. So thanks for wasting my time as well. Good night ^_^.
you have gave too much good info from what I read and no need to be this rough on abusedconvict. It is obvious he doesn't know much except playing this piece. just relax and enjoy this clip.
These two pieces you have mentioned are meant to be approached gradually. A minor can be thought of approaching works by Scarlatti, or even Bach, La Ronde des Lutins demands more virtuosity so I doubt if someone who can barely play twinkle twinkly little star will skip and attempt Paganini's caprice instead.
I've read through your interesting conversation with d'hund. You were at a disadvantage and nicely put, embarrassed yourself because you argued with someone who apparently was well versed and methodical on perf/practice whereas you rely the quality of a performance based on pure emotion. You are not getting the point d'hund tried to present to you instead you are playing word games with d'hund. I urge you to read the conversation again as well as rethink your approach to music.
you know, I gotta agree with so many of your points you argued with abusedconvcit, are you a professor somewhere? You provided very important info on cross cultural music. Great pie comparison!
This concerto is not a bad as the Yellow River, but both share missing link, its entity and that is the culture. With your "isolated" and elusive passion, you only discount your performance by rely solely on passion. You just can't charge onto a battefield without knowing the terrain and strategy. Be a thoughtful musician will ya?
I personally know the story. I can tell which parts mean what. I can clearly picture in my head the two lovers and their stories. It is beautifully portrayed on a violin.
Is that all you got from the solo? Just the stories? I hear the street and the horse galloping with its driver on foot, the dust air and food people are preparing, the legendary scenaries in the southern China, and lots more, I'm not just whipping shit out of my ass, but with erhu I hear more than just the central story. Old people sees time, and their lives gone by and more.
It is mainly what I hear, yes. I hear the lovers meeting, how they expressed it, and the love that they had that was so strong that could transcend lifetimes. That is all I hear. Just that is all I feel is told by this piece. I have listened to the erhu playing of this piece, though it does not quite sound right in this western style piece of music.
With time, envirnoment, people hear and sees different images. Take away the music, you don't have the time, place and the cultural upbringing (assuming you're not Chinese, or ABC) as an interpreter you hear it but it is discounted because you don't have those elements in you. Not your fault at all but perhaps some just rather hear what they've been used to, hence folksong.
If Brian Setzer plays an acoustic on his hits, then people would be disappointed, they would want to hear him on strat. I suppose subjectivity comes in play here, but it is a different kind of subjectivity.
This piece is actually not as bad as the Yellow River, granted, the violin can play the solo but which one tells it better? Which voice speaks to the heart of the listener? These elements can be ignored but how much are you willing to sacrifice? In this case, the core of this story/music. It's a tragic love story and the music ultimately can bring tears to your eyes. The instrumentation and how true you stay with would be a deciding factor.
At the very least, please google the story of "Butterfly Lovers", try to understand the story and the traditional element in this and how it was first delivered. This vernacular is rooted deep with tradition and a accurate title of this work, is "Lian sanbuo yu Zhu Yingtai". Composed in the mid 19th century before China's cultural revolution, Chinese used numbers for notation, and I wouldn't be surprised if it is a transcription and highly doubt the solo was designated for violin.
"The Butterfly Lovers" was not written for violin, it was originally and specifically written by composers Gang Chen and He Zhan Hao for Erhu (and a Cello), orchestrated between these two instruments and a western orchestra.
I found my answer: Siqing Lu, in addition to the Paganini First Prize, he has won numerous international competitions including those in Beijing, England, and the U.S. Mr. Lu holds the post of Director of the Violin Department at the Naxos International Music Center, Hong Kong, and Honorary Guest Soloist of the Beijing Symphony Orchestra and Kunming Symphony Orchestra, China. Mr. Lu makes his home in Edgewater, New Jersey.
Remarkable!Good music.Chinese music and instruments are really incredible, proud to be chinese. We have a long history and rich cultural heritage that we should all be proud of."Butterfly Lovers", or Liang Shan Bo yu Zhu Ying Tai, is the most famous chinese classic love tragedy, the eastern version of Romeo and Juliet.The music is nostalgic and soothing.Thumbs up!
all i got to say is WOW!! WOOOWOWOWOWOWO! lol j/k , this is a very very nice violin concert show! i jut want to stand up and sing alone with them, soo powerful!!
錄音效果不好
SamuelLee2009 1 year ago
拉的好差啊！一开始好几个音都不准。
xiongzangwen 1 year ago
." great " ................. nice ...
rock620j 1 year ago
Amazing!! Powerful song and absolutely rips my heart out! *o*!!
analeigh88 1 year ago 5
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this is a great piece of music
it really makes you feel relaxed
thanks for putting this video on youtube!!!!!!! :)
Empolziken 1 year ago
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Empolziken 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
this is a great piece of music
it really makes you fell relaxed
thanks for putting this video on youtube!!!!!!! :)
Empolziken 1 year ago
Comment removed
Empolziken 1 year ago
i can play part of this.
myoblastic 1 year ago
Great!!!
dankbarkeit2010 2 years ago
This is nice haha
IMusicFanatic 2 years ago
太动听了。。。。
WJF888 2 years ago 2
I wish somebody would post all three movements. This is great music ; I loved it the first time I heard it.
brian777999 2 years ago
i love China!
fanerfaner23 2 years ago 8
我们民族的文化啊
QINZHIRONG 2 years ago 22
i love this music!! and the film too!!
12345Fok12345 2 years ago
where can i find the orchestra sheet for this song?
tenglee2 2 years ago
Recently watch a TV drama in HK about Butterfly lovers story. Such a romatic sad love story happened in ancient China. Every time when hear this music, tears full in my eyes. I love the music so much.
Excellent music belongs to everyone in the whole world.
Thank you for sharing.
lovelesliehkfan 2 years ago 5
@lovelesliehkfan, dude, the ancient Chinese is much much more romantic and erotic than modern Chinese. Historical Ancient China has been a very sexually open and romantic nation. The extremety of sexual liberalism occured in the Tang/Song dynasties where the first erotica ever written by human was written during this time. Sexual repression happened only recently in Chinese history and mostly as a result of subjugation by the nomatic Mongols and Manchus.
jimmyjamesWang 2 years ago 4
@jimmyjamesWang 男女授受不亲是由孟子提出的 你怎么解释呢
jilidilei 1 year ago
This is so beautiful, although I still prefer 西崎崇子's version personally. Hers was the first version I've ever heard, brings me to tears everytime.
Danz1984 2 years ago
@Danz1984
Me too.
lovelesliehkfan 1 year ago
Such an international conversation here. I =American. Butterfly Lovers' Concerto is my favorite piece of music,period, from
1st time heard. Vanessa Mae's 1997 CD via a CD store PA. Didn't know story,didn't know history, didn't know Vanessa Mae; just knew best thing for my soul's health. Since then researched all and now have fuller understanding BUT that 1st hearing was fully potent without the rest. The work speaks on its own. It told me everything I needed to know really. Still does. Luv
katydid41 2 years ago 4
今天音乐课刚听了，全班同学都是如痴如醉
ITuzkism 3 years ago 4
我知道啊。。。在加拿大的中学我还没有好的音乐课，我觉得在家学习音乐好
symphoma 3 years ago 3
最點點點的事 我跟我們band老師講梁祝
他好像從來都沒聽過(?!)
notgonatelu 2 years ago
你老師是誰啊.....
lovesea1437 2 years ago
我住van
老師叫 rob leeder =]
notgonatelu 2 years ago
奇迹..
BestAccountNameEver 3 years ago 4
exelent
yammstein 3 years ago 5
you spelled excellent wrong. :P
Jamesznw 3 years ago 2
I really admire you listen to music can think of to the political
tieyuan 3 years ago 6
从小就喜欢。。。
fengfengonly 3 years ago 14
nice
laoshapigou 3 years ago 4
Wonderful!
5*!
Vihor189 3 years ago 5
This is a terrific work. You must go to the concert to sense it. I am speechless about how wonderful it is.
longriverG 3 years ago
Why is it called butterfly lovers??
a2731mw 3 years ago
title from the movie that played had this song. It's the Chinese love/tragedy. Sort of the Chinese Romeo and Juliet story but much better and sadder to me in relation.
SoulOsoLJa 3 years ago 6
oh, ok, thanks man!
a2731mw 3 years ago
to add to that, at the end the lovers died and "turned" into butterflies. the flew away and lived happy after :-).
mamafufula 3 years ago 3
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title from the movie that played had this song. It's the Chinese love/tragedy. Sort of the Chinese Romeo and Juliet story but much better and sadder to me in relation.
SoulOsoLJa 3 years ago
awesome piece of music
a2731mw 3 years ago 3
need the chinese instruments i think
brokenheartboy 3 years ago
No, it was written for the violin. Versions for Chinese instruments such as the erhu are more recent arrangements.
jrawle 3 years ago 3
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Artkure9ghvbnfjvbadkv
rogermlohkg 3 years ago
He is the one who play this piece best.
Yako711 3 years ago 6
This violin master is coming to play with our local youth orchestra, but our youth orchestra doesn't need me to play the introduction part. :( I played with smooth misterious introduction, whereas many played very actively which I think is not appropriate.
pyrioni 3 years ago
That's precisely why they don't want you to play the intro.
cacalacapoo 3 years ago
I have to say, I saw your video on the intro and it seems that what you said is the right idea; but your rendering is different from what you say. The character of how it's written begs to be played like how it is; a little on the happy and jumpy side. In my opinion. If you are talking about changing the intro a bit, it might make it so that it's putting the spotlight on the flute and not the violin...also in which, would have to slow the first verse to account for the slower intro.
cacalacapoo 3 years ago
Beautiful!!
i know this is going to be stuck in my head for a few days
Alexmybird 3 years ago 6
It's a shame that lovers can loose their way because of one moment in time that can change their lives forever. We forget how little time we have in this world that we don't cherish the one in front of us and make amends to try again. Once the chance is gone it is gone forever. True love will never find us again.
jeptik178 3 years ago 3
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wooow im naked right now! Z
codnose 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
WOW her tits are reALLY nice! just like mine! K
ampdesign 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
i just got new webcam
bfb20 3 years ago
i have fell in love with this song ans story since i was in middle school
such a romantic tragic love story. it's the best love story ever.
snowhiteXD 3 years ago 2
Wow...something to be proud of.
GabrielFanous 3 years ago 2
I wish I could play my violin like that!! :O
stupidsminkle 3 years ago
AWESOME!!! for those ppl who cannot appreciate Chinese music, would you pls shut up your mouth?
6ryue 3 years ago 2
shut the fuck up and listen to it ye shower of fools
budanasal 3 years ago
love it very much!
Thank
braeside2 3 years ago
seriously, who cares what instrument its written for. its good music, so appreciate it. if even the original composer of this song was moved to tears when he heard this rendition of it on the concert, we arn't exactly in a position to critique it much. after all, he's should know best what it should sound like =]
yucki8aby 3 years ago
so beautiful
350385 3 years ago
nice with an orchestra
Ryoma0227 3 years ago
Nice song!
I can play this on the ErHu
KatieL8281 3 years ago
dasteufelhund relax ppl r just trying 2 listen 2 music here if u wana argue go somewhere else.
Illumineos 3 years ago
太棒了！
neoguy9090 3 years ago
I think Erhu would be even better.
dasteufelhund 3 years ago
Do he really touched you???
TimothySun 3 years ago
[tears]
indemusic 3 years ago
We should really skip all the arguing and crap here.
This is really all about the muaic, and the feelings behind it.
NOT if something is meant for the western stage.
SuperChem13 3 years ago 2
There is something missing, and it is the element of culture. Notice that this is played by western instruments, but the traditional Chinese orchestra has a special flavor when performing this legendary love story, gives that extra intimacy. It is slowly fading out, which is too bad. The solo violin is meant to be on erhu
dasteufelhund 3 years ago
Wrong. It was written for the violin. It was meant to be played in a western-style fashion.
AbusedConvict 3 years ago
I care less if it was written for the bagpipe. Butterfly is a Chinese folklore/story, Yellow River and Butterfly presented through western instrumentation just don't have the same cultural color.
dasteufelhund 3 years ago
It does, if it was written for it. It doesnt automatically sound better if it were played on an erhu, due to the fact that he played it so the violin could portray the story. It wasnt meant for the erhu to do that.
AbusedConvict 3 years ago
Really? you should ask the generation of people who grew up listen and watched Chinese opera. You may be right about the era part. The authenticity of a piece especially one with deep roots such as the Butterfly, emphasizes the melodic as well as the medium of which it is expressed in (instrumentation). To the western ears, it satisfies the melodic need of our ears, but the instrumentation calls for one that is more traditional to convey its flavor fully contin..
dasteufelhund 3 years ago
Now I haven't studied the make up of "Butterfly" enough, therefore my points are more directed at "The Yellow River" violin and erhu have very distinct timbre, implying a totally different mood, do you think a Vivaldi Violin works could be played on erhu? maybe so, but it would sound different to the western ears, even aweful, it's the same principle here, or better yet, Mahler trumpet part on suona, or Dvorak oboe solo on guan, Chinese oboe, how do you think it's going to sound?
dasteufelhund 3 years ago
I have played Chinese erhu songs on the violin to great ovations. It does not sound half as bad as you may think. Maybe not as good as it is on the erhu, but not awful. Playing a song on a different instrument isn't bad, it's how good the player of the instrument is. People have played classical music on electrical guitars and still get people who enjoy it.
AbusedConvict 3 years ago
Abusedconvinct
You can play Chinese pieces on whatever I could care less. That simply is just not my point which I have explained at length. A pieces can be arranged upside down if it has order and convincing, but my point is the degree of authenticity of in respect to a piece, especially when it is culturally rooted like these two. You're stuck on a piece of pie called instrumentation when I am trying to talk about the flavor of the entire pie in relation to that one piece you're holding.
dasteufelhund 3 years ago
will you strike the hearts and spirits of the Chinese listener with a western interpretation . Playing certain music on different instruments, will you allow "gimmick, or experiment" conveyed to the audience? you play butterfly or any folksong on erhu, you bring back memories and grab hearts. Rather than just showing folks a interesting rendition of culture mix or just the fact you can do it.
dasteufelhund 3 years ago
How can you bring back memories of something if it were meant to be written for something else? If an American wrote a book about Europe in American style, it wouldn't bring back memories for the European.
AbusedConvict 3 years ago
What??? Music does it on a consistent basis what are you talking about?? Music doesn't invoke any part of your memory when you perform?
dasteufelhund 3 years ago
Of course it does. When I perform, depending on the piece, I think of the saddest or most exciting moments of my life. But Chinese people who listened to this would not invoke memories of an erhu because it was written for a violin. It's not meant to be played an erhu, and according to your logic, automatically sounds better on a violin.
AbusedConvict 3 years ago
But what happens when music embodies more than just your personal feelings? and you are quite wrong on the second part, as I have pointed it out, although it is a "Violin Concerto" the foundation of concerto are filled with colorful folk tunes. What year are you in Juilliard? Please explain to me what are the some, or core elements consisted in a folk song/tune?
dasteufelhund 3 years ago
It's my second year in the pre-college division. Folk songs are songs played with a certain pattern relating to the culture that the folk song is from. It is passed down from generation to generation. However, this is not a folk tale. It is a story. Stories do not have to be played by one instrument to tell it, as long as the player is passionate enough and has experience with his instrument.
AbusedConvict 3 years ago
Well, kiddo, it seems like you're pretty much set on the part of "stories do not have to be played by one instrument to tell it" bravo to your conviction. If you are accepted into Juilliard, then you'll learn about this during your soph or junior year, if they still offer this kind of class. There is more than a player's passion and experience with his instrument, always.
dasteufelhund 3 years ago
How do you know? Based on how you classified this piece as a bad music piece and the Yellow River concerto, which is admittedly not that great, you obviously are not a good critic in the field of music. There is nothing you need besides your passion to make a musical instrument sound pleasing.
AbusedConvict 3 years ago
After I have just schooled your ass and you want to turn the table around and accuse me of being a bad critic? You haven't provided me with worthy views except player being passion and make their music pleasing. That view is middle school at best. I travel, I read, I perform and i listen. That's how I know.
dasteufelhund 3 years ago
See now, your problem is that you don't know when to stop. If you know you beat me and I stopped responding, it's obvious you win and I can't find any faults. I am in middle school. I say you dont know when to stop because this could have stopped after the third post, but you just keep talking. And good critics dont care if they win. They state their opinion, stop arguing. If theyre a good critic, they state their opinion and drop everything else.
AbusedConvict 3 years ago
frankly, my problems is that I kept waiting for you to ask me some good questions or tell me in your own experiences with culture music. Ya know, you can learn a lot more just as I could from you. Good critics don't drop, they discusses and continue if the material is worth discussing.
dasteufelhund 3 years ago
I don't have too much experience with culture music. This isn't culture or folk music, it's merely a Chinese story portrayed by American instruments. Good critics discuss, sure, but after the person you are arguing with loses, they dont curse and say they schooled them. That is a bad critic, taking every small victory with a 7th grader and announcing it to the world.
AbusedConvict 3 years ago
abusedconvict said: "How do you know? Based on how you classified this piece as a bad music piece and the Yellow River concerto, which is admittedly not that great, you obviously are not a good critic in the field of music. There is nothing you need besides your passion to make a musical instrument sound pleasing."
This is your own post, accusing me of being a bad critic, my post was a reaction to you.
dasteufelhund 3 years ago
If you quoted me quoting you, I obviously was responding to you.
AbusedConvict 3 years ago
so why did you respond with an insult?
dasteufelhund 3 years ago
Because you insulted a beautiful piece of music, and by doing that you insulted the great violinist up there who played Butterfly Lovers up there.
AbusedConvict 3 years ago
The performance of this player and orchestra was never in question here, but you failed to understand my point, and that is the AUTHENTICITY of it, or any piece. So instead of trying to understand or ask, you think I'm attacking this performance? That is funny.
dasteufelhund 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
It's not technically attacking if you aren't telling them directly, but you are insulting them if you say his piece was not as good as it could have been. And if you say it is not authentic, you are saying it is fake, which is not true.
AbusedConvict 3 years ago
an erhu player would tell you this piece is not meant for western stage, and your logic is hilarious because as an orchestra player I have played the orchestral version of this and musicians in the orchestra asked this very same questions, often come to the very same conclusion. Composers even specify their intention when they write a piece, if a piece is transcribed to suit another voice, then it is altered from its oringinality.
dasteufelhund 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
What the hell do you mean not meant for western stage? The composer of this piece said himself that this piece is meant to have a twist by using western instruments. If the composer says what is meant by his piece, then it goes.
AbusedConvict 3 years ago
How much do you know about this piece? Who's the composer for this piece? Look it up.
dasteufelhund 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I know some basic info on the piece and some trivial info on why it was written. But I know the tale of the Butterfly Lovers extremely well. I have no idea who wrote it, but it states on nearly every site that it has a western twist and that this composer was experimenting. However, I don't know who it is.
AbusedConvict 3 years ago
Listen to me very carefully, don't come to youtube or any website and expect people to take you seriously using the name of Juilliard to have respect shown to you. These biographical information is basic, you don't know who wrote it? when it's written tell me that it's got twists and meant for western stage? You take yourself fool and your teacher failed to teach you this point. Always, ALWAYS! know who when, how, where and what reason a piece is created.
dasteufelhund 3 years ago
The composers are He Zhanhao and Chen Gang.
agmilsohu 3 years ago
agmilsohu
I addressed this question of composers who composed/edited this work was toward to abusedconvict, who did not even know at least the names but insisted on having a musicological argument based on individual performance realization.
dasteufelhund 3 years ago
Even though no one knows who, when, how, and what reason Beowulf was created, the epic poem is still an inseparable part of the English canon.
The same goes for music. You don't have to know how a piece of music came to be to enjoy it.
neoguy9090 3 years ago
neoguy 9090
Perhaps to you the understanding or the musicological aspect of a composition is secondary, the ability to understand to the overall execution and delivery, it nonetheless is a vital part of any performance. The difference of what makes a musician a good or bad story teller, is how much you understand the story that you convey through music. It's like saying you don't need to understand Romeo and Juliet, or Tristan and Islode to play the music written for these settings.
dasteufelhund 3 years ago
Now, I don't know the story of Beowulf that well other than what I've read, but if I am playing a tone poem based on this old English prose, then I would need to know more about the story in order to convey the music effectively. This process is inseparable and a must for performers. If I go to a performance, information about the piece, composer, performer, or even perhaps why the performance was given would be fulfilling, and worth my money.
dasteufelhund 3 years ago
You understand, that if you bring a piece such as this one to an audition, this is what they would listen for right? Not only your passion, but how much you know about the piece and how much you can bring that out. Look, if you don't feel happy because your ego refrains yourself from a "youtuber" giving you these views, just don't post stuff to me, I would rather speak to someone who knows what's going on, saving myself time and wasted intellectual energy.
dasteufelhund 3 years ago 2
I have performed this piece to an audience before. They all were Chinese, besides my teacher. Every single one of them gave me an ovation. And this was on violin. I never said you dont need to know about ht piece or what you can bring out. I said that it can sound just as good on a violin than an erhu. What kind of "intellectual critic" forgets what he was arguing about? How much you know about the piece doesn't do with the instrument, it's about how well you can portray the story being told.
AbusedConvict 3 years ago
You didn't get the pie comparison? Look I don't mean to be rude, just because you have an ovation doesn't the music was perfectly delivered, it may just mean gesture of support.
dasteufelhund 3 years ago
It had many, many people. I highly doubt everyone would stand up and clap for that long without really meaning it. People even said it was beautiful and sad after. It's not about what critics think for music, it's what the people listening think. And if they enjoy it, that is what counts.
AbusedConvict 3 years ago
Ok, I wasn't there I'll take your word for it. a well played erhu on this solo passages brings down tears everytime.
dasteufelhund 3 years ago
That all depends on how interested the erhu player is in the music. Which brings me back to how passion counts a lot.
AbusedConvict 3 years ago
I already said it, a well played erhu. The fact that it is on erhu, and well played, already accounts for 90 percent of the good performance. You don't hear things too well do you? Why do I have to repeat to you so often?
dasteufelhund 3 years ago
Well according to your logic, how well a musician plays has nothing to do with their passion and performance. I'm not hearing it. You have to repeat it because you're stubborn and keep on talking even after I can't find an argument to counter your own, creating holes in your argument.
AbusedConvict 3 years ago
No. passion is a prerequiste, I am telling you that you need more there just passion. I said it multiple times and are you that accomplished that you don't need to listen to words careful as you would to notes?
dasteufelhund 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
And I have said many, many times that you don't need any more than passion and basic knowledge of violin or any instrument to make a piece sound good. How else do child prodigies play level one pieces so amazingly? They put all their heart and soul into it, and people can tell.
AbusedConvict 3 years ago
But that simply is just irrelevant, do you think players can just practice, with passion, and perform, with passion and have standing ovations? Where did you get that mentality from? I don't know any child prodigies who gerw up just play passionately and don't learn anything else. If you think this way, then sorry to say, you've been misled and your future as a musician relying on just passion, will only take you so long.
dasteufelhund 3 years ago
Passion with simple music is much better than extremely hard music with no passion. It's better to hear a Vivaldis Concerto in A Minor played with passion than a La Ronde des Lutins with a non-interested violinist. Playing many simple things amazingly is better than playing hard things without any heart.
AbusedConvict 3 years ago
I must apologize in advance, but you as a musician expect me to listen to you talk passion and interesting twist on a piece which you don't even have the discipline, completely made our conversation pointless. I thought by seeing you as a Juilliard player you would have some knowledge clearly, not even the basics, thanks for wasting my time.
dasteufelhund 3 years ago
And I would have thought that you, as a critic, would do the thing a smart critic does and tries to see things from the listeners point of view. It's not what you say that counts, it's what the listeners think. And your posts are completely useless if you are not thinking from their point of view. So thanks for wasting my time as well. Good night ^_^.
AbusedConvict 3 years ago
you have gave too much good info from what I read and no need to be this rough on abusedconvict. It is obvious he doesn't know much except playing this piece. just relax and enjoy this clip.
NauticalVortex 3 years ago
These two pieces you have mentioned are meant to be approached gradually. A minor can be thought of approaching works by Scarlatti, or even Bach, La Ronde des Lutins demands more virtuosity so I doubt if someone who can barely play twinkle twinkly little star will skip and attempt Paganini's caprice instead.
NauticalVortex 3 years ago
I've read through your interesting conversation with d'hund. You were at a disadvantage and nicely put, embarrassed yourself because you argued with someone who apparently was well versed and methodical on perf/practice whereas you rely the quality of a performance based on pure emotion. You are not getting the point d'hund tried to present to you instead you are playing word games with d'hund. I urge you to read the conversation again as well as rethink your approach to music.
NauticalVortex 3 years ago
you know, I gotta agree with so many of your points you argued with abusedconvcit, are you a professor somewhere? You provided very important info on cross cultural music. Great pie comparison!
NauticalVortex 3 years ago
This concerto is not a bad as the Yellow River, but both share missing link, its entity and that is the culture. With your "isolated" and elusive passion, you only discount your performance by rely solely on passion. You just can't charge onto a battefield without knowing the terrain and strategy. Be a thoughtful musician will ya?
dasteufelhund 3 years ago
Let me ask you this then, when you listen to the violin solo, what do you think of? Or,shall we say, let's picture paint.
dasteufelhund 3 years ago
I personally know the story. I can tell which parts mean what. I can clearly picture in my head the two lovers and their stories. It is beautifully portrayed on a violin.
AbusedConvict 3 years ago
Is that all you got from the solo? Just the stories? I hear the street and the horse galloping with its driver on foot, the dust air and food people are preparing, the legendary scenaries in the southern China, and lots more, I'm not just whipping shit out of my ass, but with erhu I hear more than just the central story. Old people sees time, and their lives gone by and more.
dasteufelhund 3 years ago
It is mainly what I hear, yes. I hear the lovers meeting, how they expressed it, and the love that they had that was so strong that could transcend lifetimes. That is all I hear. Just that is all I feel is told by this piece. I have listened to the erhu playing of this piece, though it does not quite sound right in this western style piece of music.
AbusedConvict 3 years ago
With time, envirnoment, people hear and sees different images. Take away the music, you don't have the time, place and the cultural upbringing (assuming you're not Chinese, or ABC) as an interpreter you hear it but it is discounted because you don't have those elements in you. Not your fault at all but perhaps some just rather hear what they've been used to, hence folksong.
dasteufelhund 3 years ago
Do you know anything about music?
NauticalVortex 3 years ago
If Brian Setzer plays an acoustic on his hits, then people would be disappointed, they would want to hear him on strat. I suppose subjectivity comes in play here, but it is a different kind of subjectivity.
dasteufelhund 3 years ago
This piece is actually not as bad as the Yellow River, granted, the violin can play the solo but which one tells it better? Which voice speaks to the heart of the listener? These elements can be ignored but how much are you willing to sacrifice? In this case, the core of this story/music. It's a tragic love story and the music ultimately can bring tears to your eyes. The instrumentation and how true you stay with would be a deciding factor.
dasteufelhund 3 years ago
At the very least, please google the story of "Butterfly Lovers", try to understand the story and the traditional element in this and how it was first delivered. This vernacular is rooted deep with tradition and a accurate title of this work, is "Lian sanbuo yu Zhu Yingtai". Composed in the mid 19th century before China's cultural revolution, Chinese used numbers for notation, and I wouldn't be surprised if it is a transcription and highly doubt the solo was designated for violin.
dasteufelhund 3 years ago
"The Butterfly Lovers" was not written for violin, it was originally and specifically written by composers Gang Chen and He Zhan Hao for Erhu (and a Cello), orchestrated between these two instruments and a western orchestra.
NauticalVortex 3 years ago
What year? i own the CD by Yo Yo Ma, lov it!
0311ohrah 3 years ago
absolutely amazing. the warmth and color in his tone is incredible...
ooziemac10 3 years ago
A beutiful recording it reminds me of a wonderful holiday spent in China
Mick
mickreed45 3 years ago
Great. Though I think this piece sounds better if accompanied by chinese musical instrument.
laogefan 3 years ago
This really makes your soul sad and it is very good to listen at sad moments. Makes me cry.
jiushan64 3 years ago
This is so heart warming!
wamjpl 3 years ago 2
Magnificent, simply beautiful !
laucy93 3 years ago 2
I found my answer: Siqing Lu, in addition to the Paganini First Prize, he has won numerous international competitions including those in Beijing, England, and the U.S. Mr. Lu holds the post of Director of the Violin Department at the Naxos International Music Center, Hong Kong, and Honorary Guest Soloist of the Beijing Symphony Orchestra and Kunming Symphony Orchestra, China. Mr. Lu makes his home in Edgewater, New Jersey.
He is awesome!!! Bravo!!!
AQKJSPADER 3 years ago 3
I saw a Mr Lu posted but it would be a big help if the full name is given. Thanks.
AQKJSPADER 3 years ago
Would you know the name of the violin soloist?
AQKJSPADER 3 years ago
[tears]
indemusic 3 years ago 2
Remarkable!Good music.Chinese music and instruments are really incredible, proud to be chinese. We have a long history and rich cultural heritage that we should all be proud of."Butterfly Lovers", or Liang Shan Bo yu Zhu Ying Tai, is the most famous chinese classic love tragedy, the eastern version of Romeo and Juliet.The music is nostalgic and soothing.Thumbs up!
NolanBolton4 4 years ago 10
I totally agree. The Chinese culture has greatly enriched the world! I am a violinist and i love to play this piece.
brianmac247 3 years ago 8
Luv it...its a really gentleand soothing song. i can play this on the violin too, only not as good. all i can say is i luv it
iluvdogz868 4 years ago 6
This sent chills up my spine. Simply beautiful. I love the story.<3
joaniemaloney 4 years ago 3
to become a butterfly
Croytaque 4 years ago 2
it nice c est trop beau 太好听了！
christianteo 4 years ago
awesome! absolutly beautiful! does anyone know where i can get the music?
sasukemustdie4 4 years ago
Beautiful!! with the whole "Chinese" feeling too... lol
cometeova 4 years ago
my fav song
theshadowboy607 4 years ago
Incredibly beautiful!!
rmm904 4 years ago
all i got to say is WOW!! WOOOWOWOWOWOWO! lol j/k , this is a very very nice violin concert show! i jut want to stand up and sing alone with them, soo powerful!!
CodyYaj 4 years ago
it is good idea to sing along w/ some great performers.... but not violine concerto...
cde123cde 4 years ago
it would be great but the quality of the audio kinda sucks.
caocao8u 4 years ago
Wahhh!!!!! I love this piece so much! The story of Butterfly Lovers is beautiful...
Uh... but I think that the Hong Kong Youth Orchestra played equally as beautiful...
darkcinderellaisabel 4 years ago
Absolutely Awesome!!!
jeejo1976 4 years ago
Not terrific sound (and the balance favours the violin too much) but a lovely performance of a most attractive piece.
leitfie3579 4 years ago
I sure will, you do the same. Truce. What piece are you working on? If I might ask:)
VIOLIN1786 4 years ago
nice nice very nice!!!
QDBYZ 4 years ago
the music isnt really divided into movements; instead, the entire song is one movement comprised of 3 major "episodes".
ilovehualy 4 years ago
nice, thanks for uploading
paperman8888 4 years ago
When I was in China, I fell in love with this beautiful music. Thank you.
genia106 4 years ago
Wonderful! I have the CD of this.
LegIsLate 4 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Rachel Barton played that concerto in China and won the coveted competition. In turn she actually taught the Chinese how to play the piece. WTF
VIOLIN1786 4 years ago