"Sustainable Shopping" Rev. Billy & Savitra D. on Meet the B

[sabelmouse]

i have to say this; what's with the yoko ono look savitri?

[sabelmouse]

in germany saint nicholas was certainly dressed in red bishops[ i think ] robes as long as i can remember.

in holland, the people who brought saint nick to america he is often shown in white and gold.

i don't think the red of the german saint has anything to do with coca cola but i could be mistaken.

in any case ; i do not enjoy those coke adds though my children do.

[harrypalms1112]

90% of the things we buy are in landfills within six months? I don't know about that statistic. Agree with everything else.

[Coldz2001]

Isn't that a young turk?

[evaangellus]

Very informative.

I felt like a slug hammer hit me when I heard that Coca Cola is the reason why Santa wears red.

Some of these facts are NOT for the light hearted.

[GoochLewinsky]

AND the Snopes article doesn't give quite enough credit to the Coca-Cola Company (but does give them a lot) for the current state in the "Evolution of Santa Claus". While it's true that St. Nick was occasionally portrayed wearing the red and white colours it took Coke's ADVERTISING campaign to SOLIDIFY this image of Santa in our minds and essentially kill all previous traditional images we've ever had of Santa Claus.

[girltroll]

Not really. Thomas Nast put him in red in his colored lithographs for "A Visit From Saint Nicholas" back in 1869 and the image stuck enough for it to be a popular on on many victorian Christmas cards long before coke had its advertising campaign. I think the coke campaign is just the most memorable. Search the phrase "Thomas Nast, 1869" and it should pull up the original lithographs for you if you're of a mind.

[GoochLewinsky]

We've clearly seen the same A&E special on the evolution of Santa Claus and come away with different opinions.

There's more to the modern image of Santa Claus than the colour red. Compare the Nast pictures to the CocaCola Santa Claus, they're very different and the one we recognize most is Coke's. My point is that there was an evolution going on with Santa Claus until Coca Cola hijacked the character and used ADVERTISING to embed their version into the collective conscience of North Americans.

[girltroll]

Maybe, my only point was that your post made it sound as if it was the evil masterminds behind some corporate conspiracy when, in fact, there are a whole host of others who took part of that evolution as well. Societies latch onto iconic images regardless of the source and just because this one has been colored by an advertising campaign doesn't make it evil nor solely responsible. This would be like reducing Rockwell to nothing more then an advertising hack. But have it your way happy new year.

[GoochLewinsky]

People use terms like "evil" and "conspiracy" to dismiss the opinions of others...the common person is put off by those terms so it gives the illusion of winning an argument when no argument has been made. Whether or not Coke's hijacking of Santa Claus was "evil" or if a "conspiracy" took place is a matter of opinion. My only statement has been that Coke used advertising to solidify their version of Santa Claus in the collective conscience, something advertisers do with icons and logos everyday.

[sabelmouse]

@GoochLewinsky

totally. even without serious consequences it's just nauseating to see children taken in by this.

[GoochLewinsky]

This year we're changing 'x-mas' back to 'christmas'...but in 2010 'COKEMAS'...do you think the Coca-Cola company would LIKE that or HATE that? I think we all know the answer. BUT it doesn't make them EVIL...I'd LOVE for the holidays to be changed to 'GOOCHMAS'...I'm not evil, just vain.

And Rockwell was an advertising hack.

[sabelmouse]

@GoochLewinsky

actually coca cola is evil. they take precious water away from indian farmers and have people shot in columbia for trying to unionise.

maybe that is just nomal in america.

[GoochLewinsky]

WOW. What a show. Some great stuff in there.

Fantastic production value, they're doing a LOT of good segments on what has to be a tight budget.

[NWKBricks1]

Excellent video. Rev. Billy is always interesting, funny, and makes you think.

[djtyg]

I have to make a correction: The modern version of Santa wasn't created by Coke. You can read more about it at snopes. Click on the What's New section.

[PippinPogle]

Go Billy! Change-a-lu-yah!

[kendjo]

at fifteen forty five she goes nutjob lol, but they all have good points.

[tuberpie68]

Except for the coke & irresponsible or obnoxious drinking, I agree with you! Btw, everyone should check out the MPPstaff channel.

[aquafishsoup]

i'll tell you what jesus would buy his time back

[hillsad]

"What Would
Jesus Buy?" is a great movie. Lots of fun. Go rent it.

[ilikeicecreamandcake]

you can watch it for free on google video.

[PippinPogle]

I completely agree. I saw it last year and loved it. "What Would Jesus Buy" is well worth seeing.

[FangFiftyFive]

Very Funny

[dissent2007]

Merry Consumerism

[d2tminc]

I don't have any credit card debt...

[tuberpie68]

I don't even have any credit card, & have never wanted one.

[kazooga1234]

i always hated christmas and i wouldnt of given a fuck if i got something or not when i was younger it was only the presents i cared about but even then i didnt really care bout much

[tuberpie68]

I think I agree, depending on what you mean by hating Christmas. I hate what people---mostly non-Christians & Christians-in-name-only---insi­st on making Christmas: materialism; hyppocracy;obligatory, hypersensitive,social relations; & enforced nutritional abuse of our bodies.

[kazooga1234]

yes thats what i was going by

[streetlif9]

Yeah--Let's use our "not buying" it power

[makaisenki]

I really don't understand how not spending will help businesses make enough money to not lay off workers. They didnt' provide any evidence on how we can both cut spending in these times as well as keep companies from laying off more workers, meaning they have less money, meaning less profits for other businesses, meaning less profits, more layoffs, and eventually our economy hits rock bottom and everyone suffers...

I'd rather have stuff if the dollar loses all value.

[kelseywall]

It's so difficult to change shopping habits, especially when your children are nagging you constantly for an Xbox or the newest game. Hopefully the upcoming depression will help us change.

[makaisenki]

Well a couple things.

1. Video games are essentially recession proof.

2. The Sony was given the highest environmental score out of Microsoft Sony and Nintendo on how they treat the environment. Nitendo is the worst.

3. There are no sweat shops for video games or disks.

4. You don't throw much away in gaming.

5. On the PS3 and Wii there are a lot of family friendly games that anyone can play, while the 360 is kinda there but not quite in my opinion.

I think Little Big Planet is great for family

[generaleskimo]

I am beginning to think that most (not all) of these people are essentially Luddites, and do not actually understand the basics of economics. It is really kind of pathetic. Sure, we are a consumer society, and that culture is bland and cannot stay. On top of that, many are suffering in economic hardships. However, the solution is nowhere near as simple as "stop shopping", because that alone does not diversify culture nor does it help the economy (far from it).

[xStacinatorx]

I always wonder how we even got it this far. The theory of Christmas is the birth of Christ right? How did it go from the birth of a religious savior to worldwide consumerism? I am a bit confused. I am also one of those people that would rather spend my money on food and things I NEED rather than ornaments and fake trees and decorations. When I buy a 'x-mas' gift for someone, I make sure it's something that they will use on an almost daily basis, something they NEED, or I give food.

[tuberpie68]

Great questions & sentiments, xStacinatorx! I don't buy, or give, Christmas gifts at all! I have all the reasons being expressed here, but most important of all, I AM NOT A CHRISTIAN! Why do Christians let non-Christian run Christmas--- that's the root of the problems with Christmas! I tell people repeatedly not to give me X-mas gifts, but I can't stop them. I give when I'm inspired to give, not because someone says it's time to give. And I usually find or make the gift; I almost never buy it.

[earthmother]

it's only "consumerism" if you allow it to be.

[sabelmouse]

@earthmother

what does that mean?

[BaKer312213]

this is the first one i watch, its really good, its the same guy from 'the young turks' look them up

[madebutante]

Sometimes I like the Young Turks, but then sometimes, he's annoying in long stretches...but I appreciate any alternative media there is out there!!!

[makaisenki]

Screw you guys I love my PS3... if I didn't have my PS2s and PS3s and PSPs i'd have killed myself by now. Why? Because most of every person I've helped out, been there for, no or love have either lost touch with me, or have backstabbed me and betrayed me when I needed them most no matter what I did for them.

I need my PS3 families and friends don't last, the PS3 is there for me when no one else is...

Ya it sounds pathetic but as is this life we live.

[ASguitar07]

I hope this doesn't offend you, but I will be praying for you and asking the Lord to bring people in your life who will love and comfort you. My life is not perfect by any stretch of the imagination and I know what its like to feel abandoned and alone, but I have joy and hope and I pray that you will too.

[BaKer312213]

fair one, but u a bit deluded. what has praying ever done for you. the weakest pray i heard was a mother pray for her daughter to have safe travels, and she was raped in thialand

[makaisenki]

And as I am an atheist, there is no need to be hostile to someone who is wishing a depressed person good will but also being careful not to offend or come off preachy in anyway.

Religion by one's self is one thing, but, that comment was a bit uncalled for. We do need to be nicer to the ones that are more polite about it. It's the ones that want to force Unintelligent Design down people's throats that are the problem. I mean common God designed some animals to die after giving birth. WTF!?!?!

[SubmarinerAndroid]

That is a beautiful intention, full of compassion.

I think many people get offended by someone's intention to pray when it contains a negative judgement, expressed in their tone ("I'm gonna PRAY for you!") and on their (scowling) face. They are really trying to do God's job (judgement).

But you did not do that.

What could be wrong with praying for someone to have loving relationships, especially when he has just openly complained of his loneliness?

[makaisenki]

You know that reminds me of a song by Apocalyptica. I don't know if it's an original or a cover but it has the following lyrics.

"I don't believe in God, but I'll pray for you"

It is sung by a very beautiful voice with a very moving and lovely melody. As an atheist I find that one of the most beautiful lyrics I've heard.

Simply because the thought behind it, states that even though they don't believe in a higher power, they still are moved to do everything they can for that person

Beautiful

[makaisenki]

If more Christians acted like that, I wouldn't be tired of hearing about their religion. I don't want to ruin the kind words you told me, and as an atheist I thank you for the kind thoughts.

[madebutante]

It's just when they act superior that it's a drag. I was in an abusive church for 20 years!!! Awful. They did it to each other! And to me often. The hell with all self righteous people - Christian, Atheist (they can be the worst, and it's bad in progressive circles!!! I'm often in trouble for being a Christian...cos I speak my mind...lol) I can only tell the answer for myself.This world is so f'ing alienating, esp. in the U.S. ESPECIALLY b eing Asian in Orange County CA! It's Naziville!!!

[madebutante]

Pray for me, too! I need, a good man! A good church, and lots of good stuff to do for the world! God's will for the Revolution!!

[tuberpie68]

Wow! ASguitar07, what a refreshingly positive, constructive expression of Christianity!! You should be put in charge of running Christmas. Why did Christians ever give it up to non-Christians & Christians-in-name-only, anyway? I think that's where Christmas went wrong. And for that matter, why did real Christians surrender Christianity to pseudo-Christians? Why have virtually all of Christendom stayed silent, while pseudo-Christians do hellish things in the name of your Savior/God?

[jonz23m]

makaisenki..using ur logic..u can also say family and friends dont last but heroin and crack is always there for u. doesnt sound really healthy and it hasnt really much to do with life but with escapin into a world of illusions just because u dont wanna deal with reality.

[makaisenki]

Well and the same thing could be said about religion, God, knitting, weed, alcohol, reading books, playing guitar, working on cars, writing poems, making youtube videos, watching youtube videos, watching movies, t.v. shows, listening to music, making movies, or any number of other things in life.

Anything in excess is bad. If you have to pure of oxygen your body can be destroyed.

So basically you're doing nothing but trying to agitate someone lonely with negative criticism. Wonderful.

[jonz23m]

not really makaisenki crack and heroin were just examples..so all u did was just give more of them. i am not really talkin about excess. what i am sayin is fleeing into a world of illusion doesnt make reality better. u have to deal with it. if everyone who had bad experiences would with people did that we would have zomb ies walkin around not interactin at all.(which we r heading towards already).

[makaisenki]

Well when you only talk about the more dangerous and addictive drugs, you imply that you're doing a comparison. If you had put something as simple as add the word books, then you lose some of the implication.

I've seen articles written comparing video games to crack cocaine, that had no real distinction and so many errors. So I'm kinda picky when people specifically use dangerous and addictive narcotics as the only parallel.

[SubmarinerAndroid]

That's really sad.

You sound like me, I'm an addict.  It's easier than dealing with people.

Some people's drugs are chemical, some are electronic, some are sexual, some want fancy things and the newest things (consumerism)...

We are all zombies.

[makaisenki]

Well actually I do try and keep in touch with people, but I find it very hard to get close to people. I'm always sceptical that they will just stop talking to me at some point and I'll never hear from them again, and then I try not to get emotionally attatched to any person, which basically makes it harder to make friends and keep them.

In part I also become somewhat of a self fulfilling prophecy.

Actually the PS3 just released Playstation Home I actually log into it in order to be more social

[tuberpie68]

What the hell are those PS things?

[makaisenki]

a "PS thing" is a Playstation.

The PS3 is the third generation of video game console. The Playstation 3 is also one of the best Blu-Ray players on the market. It's also a multimedia device that can store music and videos. It's also a DVD upconverter for HD displays. It also can have an operating system called Linux installed and be used as a low cost computer system.

These "PS" things are some of the best bang for your buck you can get.

[sabelmouse]

@makaisenki

it is sad, though i symphasise. my children have been bullied and have found solace in the playstation though i can see a value in playing games myself.

i think this is more about senseless overbuying of stuff you don't even need or want but just think you should have.

like the difference between buying clothes you need and getting a new ward robe every year or even twice and then throwing it away.

i don't think this is about banning all playstations but

[makaisenki]

@sabelmouse Video games are a luxury device. But video games can also be very productive as well. Many people have bought a Wii and Wii fit to lose weight. Some have, most haven't. Many people bought PS2s and Dance Dance Revolution to lose weight and others haven't.

Yes these consoles are luxury devices, but I dont' pay for cable because I watch t.v. through my PS3 on my t.v. and that saves me a lot of money. I can play with friends far away.

Some games are even used as teaching tools now.

[sabelmouse]

@makaisenki

i am not against them. my children have them.

i was just trying to explain that rev billy propably is not totally against them either but against people buying them as a must have.

most 6 year olds don't even appreciate them properly or take cre of either the concole or the games.

i myself get quite upset at how neglgent people are not just with their own but games and dvd's for renting or worse from the library.

i think the idea is to get away from wanton buying

[makaisenki]

@sabelmouse then teach them respect. Tell them that everytime you come across a dvd that's not being cared for, it's going away, have a place that they can't get to, where they don't know where it is, put it in a jewel case, and lock it up. a 20 dollar fire proof safe would be great for instance.

If you don't appreciate how your child takes care of things, then you have to give them a reason to care, and show them a fair punishment.

Can't have nice things till you learn to care for them.

[sabelmouse]

@makaisenki

i can't do that. i have no control over other people and their children. mine know how to take care of stuff.

[makaisenki]

@sabelmouse I thought you were talking about your kids. Not the kids of others. Well most americans are pretty much worthless. They don't teach their kids respect, they don't really sit down with their kids for quality time, to help build family bonds, they don't try to teach their kids or tutor them with problems they have, they don't help their kids understand how dangerous it is to paste drunken photos on facebook, or promote any sort of really healthy home environment anyway.

[sabelmouse]

@makaisenki

good heavens. if my children treated things that way they would not get any more.

i don't have the money anyway but i would not put up with it and certainly not destroying library things,

we live in ireland and people are careless enough with stuff. it's actualy a status thing to buy and throw away and be careless with stuff. if you don't you're '' tight''.

i am german. we like things to be good quallity and last.

[sabelmouse]

@makaisenki

not carefull and selective buying from things you need or even just want because they really mean something to you other than just the having for the sake of having.

[madebutante]

American citizens haven't been careful to heed Eisenhower's warning about the military industrial complex. It's hyper-growth growth influenced the change of legal status of corporations so that they enjoy all the benefits of individuals without the legal or moral responsibilities. Witness the Fncl BailOuts. The corporate elite (Corporatacracy) now rule. But there is Hope. Look at the union standing for their rights in Chicago; look at the kids in Greece and Europe...

[Ju5tClever]

Dude. Do you really think this is just about America?

[madebutante]

Course not. Some of these corporations are multinational. Halliburton is now HQ'd in Dubai. Europeans are more quality of life oriented, Americans have been taught that quantity of products gives a quality of life. The Marketing arm of the corporate machine tell us that a Good American is a Consuming American! Do you think that 90% of gifts given for Xmas in Europe will be landfilled w/in 6 months?

[tuberpie68]

Actually, the correct term for rule by & for a corporate elite, is Fascism. Benito Mussolini, when asked, by a reporter, "What is Fascism?", answered "Fascism is Corporatism." And he should know. He invented Fascism!

[InTylerWeTrust84]

Its not he American peoples fault other countries use sweet shops. How do we control the laws of other countries? And thats what they are talking about, controlling the laws of everyone else. Its the fault of the American company and the government that put those jobs outside the US. P.S. never trust religious people they hurt people more than sweetshops.

[tuberpie68]

Sweat shops in other countries are not our fault, but buying their products IS. And when we do buy them, the sweat shop conditions DO become our fault. And we can control the laws of other countries the same way that we always have: our economic, diplomatic &(hopefully not) military power.

[InTylerWeTrust84]

But its the fault of mine or yours .Its the fault of the company that sent the jobs there. Besides looking through all the products to make sure we only buy the sweat shop free condition products what can we do? Are Americans supposed to go without things we need? I agree that if we could stop it we defiantly should but its not in our control. Thats the government and corporations fault and they will always look to take advantage of people to make their cheep shit.

[InTylerWeTrust84]

I totally agree with you. No one should ever have to work in sweetshops, and we shouldnt buy the products made there. But we dont know more than half the time if they were. But I think there needs to more emphases on the people in charge then on the average American for buying the products. If I walked into target today and saw two products one made in a sweat shop and one wasnt Id defiantly buy the non-sweat shop product, but 9 times out of 10 we dont know. and yes i hate Disney.