@RichardElden Sorry your too stupid to continue this conversation with, your only a child & a stupid one at that. Come back to me in 10-20 yrs when you might have a clue what your talking about. If only all loyalists were as dumb as you, we'd have a United Ireland by wendsday.
@RichardElden P.s. Our largest trading partners are Brit & the USA by far. We do relatively little trade with other EU countries. WE took their grants, we took their bailout & if we feel like it, we'll fuck off & make friend s withe yanks. The EU can do nothing about it.
@RichardElden (1) We wont be in the EU so they cant levy any fines you dumb motherfucker
(2) The money they have invested in our banks is being covered by the irish Govt
(3) Those bonds r exactly what we can default on
So you havnt come up with 1 single thing they can do to us to stop us defaulting & leaving the EU whenever we feel like it, LOL. It says your 19 i your profile, i think you lied, id guess your around 13. Wise up kid, we r no1's slaves unlike NI which jumps when London whistles
@borledx When you're leader of this new all island socialist gaelic republic are you going to withdraw from the EU?!? Lmfbo,, I can see the headlines now-- " Greater Irish Gaelic & Socialist Workers & Farmers Republic withdraws from European Union, President for life & Commander in Chief says no EU loans will be repaid" ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. What about the money the UK has lent your joke of a country? Because if you don't repay that, we'll invade your Potato Republic ;)
@oz1641 I dont where to start with that juvenile outbdurst. But il start at the end, 1st soveriegn default is a very real possibility. Iceland have already & Greece look like they will soon. There'll be no invasions, you child. If Ireland reaches the stage where it can no longer afford 2 repay its loans, it will default & indeed some economists expect that in the next 2-3 yrs. We stay in the EU because it benefits us. If we decide it doesn't anymore we can leave, simple as that.
@oz1641 BTW, The free state army did defeat the IRA in less than 12 months, thats a historical fact disputed by no1. You can draw whatever conclusions you like from that fact. If it makes you laugh, so be it, but it happened,
@RichardElden Your too stupid to continue this conversation with, your only a child. I dont why im answering you. Any country can default on its loans if it can show that it cannot repay them, thats international law. A good example would be Iceland which defaulted a few yrs ago & its like greece will default anyday. Its happened countless times. Why do u think Enda Kenny said the loans could not b paid back. I will guarantee you now that Ireland will default on those loan in the few yrs.
@RichardElden U should go down the Falls road & explain how their better off part of the UK 2 the locals, r better again South Armagh, ha, ha, ha Listen & i'll teach u something about economics. Either the ROIs economy booms again in the next 3-4 yrs r we default on the loan. More likely we will default. Either way we'll owe nothing & we still b 1 of the richest countries in the world GDP/captia. We should b able 2 take care of de poor people of NI who get so rich by being in the UK, LOL
@RichardElden ya i know your poor beggars who cant support yourselves, but your our poor beggars. We'll take ye in feed & clothe ye, dont worry. Can you tell me 1 war that britain has ever won alone against another developed nation(not zules with spears)??? Go on, give me just 1? The opinion polls in the occupied 6 Co's say different my friend. The vast majority of Nats see themselves as irish & not British & given the chloice will definitely vote 2 reunite with their fellow countrymen
@RichardElden The commonwealth is only a talking shop, its not important except maybe 4 networking purposes. Also it has the qeen as its head & the people of Ireland wil NEVER EVER accept that. If my aunt had balls she'd b my uncle. The pro-treaty side won, u cant change history. Fact is the IRA beat the Brits & then the irish army what the British coldn't do in 3 yrs i.e. defeated the IRA. Shortly Nats will opt out of de union in NI & theres nothing u can do about it, get used to it
@borledx haha "the Irish army what the British coldn't do in 3yrs i.e. defeated the IRA" Ffs do you ever re-read the shite you churn out,, you're seriously saying that the British Army of 1919-1920 was no match for the mighty Free State Army of 1921-1922!?!?!?? hahahaha...Walter Mitty,
@oz1641 Whats so funny you simpleton? The Irish did do in less than 12 months what the Brit army culdn't do in 3yrs i.e. defeat the old IRA. No1 mentioned the Feestate army fighting the Brit empire. So whats so funny? Billy wright was a different era(& 1 who deserved exactly what he got & then some), the group im referring to were known as the Glennanon gang & they certainly were a proxy unit 4 hawks in Brit army intelligence wit that george Cross winner Capt nairac as the go between man
@borledx The Free State army defeated the IRA? So therefore you are saying that the Free State forces were better then the British Army, that's what is so funny. Also hilarious that you think there was a group called the "Glennanon gang", do you maybe mean the Glenanne gang? A MYTHICAL group of RUC & UDR men from Glenanne in s.Armagh. As for Nairac, I don't know what you're jabbering on about. You said that mid Ulster UVF were an Army proxy ya dick,, Glenanne isn't even in mid Ulster Ffs......
@RichardElden And if the couldnt beat the IRA the 1st time why should they 2nd time around brains??? Not to mentio the fact the proble was never overrunnning ireland it was holding us & making us slaves like Scot & wales. You never could in 800 yrs & you never will.
@RichardElden wow what a comeback, i can tell your a university man, masters degree at oxford id say. Why dont u try trolling on some1 with your own level of intellectual capacity. I think ill bow out, its frankly an insult to my superior intelligence to waste my time with dullards like you.
BTW, the qeen isn't exactly an oilpainting either, LOL
@RichardElden What laws? Give me 1 law that the EU dictates to me besides the human rights convention which every member state is signed up to. How will the EU stop us from defaulting exactly & how will they stop us from leaving if we feel like it??? Inform me child, your claims grow more outlandish by the minute.
Did it ever dawn on you that Enda Kenny saying it could never be repaid is laying the groundwork 4 default?? Also r booming which is wat sustains our fabulous living stds
@RichardElden We cant support ourselves, really? yet we have 1 of the highest living stds in the world(much higher than brit), 1 of the best education systems in the world(scoring much higher than brit) & we have a GDP higher than NI, Scot & wales. LOL you really r a child
@RichardElden Give me 1 aspect of my life that the EU controls????? As i already told you, if we feel we cant meet the terms of the bailout we will simply default(that means not pay it back). And if the EU pisses us off enough, we will opt of that too & no1 can do anything about it. As 4 anything Devs crowd say, who cares? Opinions are like arseholes, every1 has 1. Im only dealing in facts, not fantasy & what ifs like you.
@RichardElden So if they couldnt govern which was their objective. And on parallell course the IRA's strategy was to make it impossible to govern, the IRA were successful, the brits pulled out & there4 the IRA won the war. Accept it like a man, Brit lost. There be a united Ireland because Nats will outnumber unionists, thats an indisputable fact. They will simply then opt out of the UK & into the loving arms of Dub. All ur huffing & puffing & wishing it wasn;t so cant change any of that.
@RichardElden The EU controls nothing. We can default on that loan tomorrow & indeed r expected to around 2013. We can pull out of the EU tomorrow & no1 can anything about it. Like i said you understand about as much about economics as a chimp does algebra. Also the ROI has a GDP per captia about 8 times that of NI & thats in our worst economic crisis in living memory. If it wasnt 4 brit handouts, you'd be a 3rd world "country"
@RichardElden The free state army was 60,000 strong during the civil war, not 2 4getting the IRA who were still on the loose who drove the Brits from the ROI in the 1st place. U'd need more like 200,000 & then you'd have to hold, which you couldn't do in 700 yrs. Add the fact is that the brit govt hadnt the bottle 4 any of it anyway, hence the ROI. Cameroon has no say in the matter, NONE. If a vote opts out of the UK, its an internationally binding agreement that no Brit govt can go back on
@RichardElden 27 yrs, 37yrs, no matter, here we are an independent sovereign nation because the IRA won. Declaring the Rep was only a formality, with a diplomatic period of time b4 doing so. The irony is the Brit decision 2 pull out of NI has already been made & is irreversible, histroy repeating itself, LOL. And again what u think of the GFA is irrelevant, the fact is it exists & theres nothing u can do about, NOTHING.
P.S. Ur understanding of economics is similar 2 a chimps grasp of algebra
@RichardElden We didnt win anything, really? I dont live in the ROI so? Whow thats shocking news 2 me, LOL. Theres no we about my very dull friend. Ur govt has signed up to an internationally binding agreement that says when the maj of people wish 2 opt of the union, they can. Add that to the fact, that 4 a mathamathical certainty, Nats will outnumber unionists shortly & its bye bye NI. U hav no say in the matter, NONE. As 4 the IMF, i'll giv u 1 word DEFAULT, its almost a certainty
@RichardElden Oh a feeble attempt at trolling is it? I believe the croke park massacre was preceded by the execution of 12 Brit secret agents no? Also if my memory serves me right, we won that war & sent ye packing, LOL. As for the troubles in NI, the provos killed approx 7 members of the SF's for every 1 IRA killed. And what was the end result, your Govt signed an agreement that practically gaurantees an end to the british prescence in NI within decades. U'll have 2 try a little harder son
he doesn't mention the fact they supported the B specials in the 70's and 80's, where they had the power to enter your home in northern ireland and drag you out and beat you in the street for no reason what so ever!!!! this is only a touch of the treatment of the catholics of northern ireland!!
The fact that "you've never lived in Ulster, you didn't experience the Troubles 1st hand" make your "opinion" here vacuous! The fact that you don't get to VOTE on NI matters, (so much for it being YOUR country, eh?) makes you an irrelevance! Simples!
Your "Pick & mix" politics, come from your support of the IRA when it suits you but criticism of them & their followers when it doesn't!
Rep'ism is like the Taliban, blind FAITH, not reason!
@DonegalRaymie201 I dont get a vote in NI because Brit military power says I dont, no other reason. Thats the whole point of Republicanism, to change that situation. Reps opinions matters because they make them matter. If people dont listen, Reps make them listen. They cannot & will not be ignored. Force of will is all thats really relevant in this world, i thought u'd know that much. That I criticise Reps when I dont agree wit them is ample proof that I display anything but blind faith
And the award for the Most Utter Shite talked in 24hours goes to....Borledx!
You don't get a vote on NI matters, BECAUSE YOU DON'T FUCKIN' LIVE THERE!!! Political decisions that are made there, do NOT affect you: You are NOT a constituent, get it??? You're totally, fuckin' irrelevant to ANYTHING in NI, unless you plan on moving there, and there's FA chance of that, not with all them Nasty Prods about, eh?
You just trot out the same auld tired slogans, because you have no argument!!
@DonegalRaymie201 What do i need to explain to you what republicanism is exactly? FFS, your not that thick are you. No Republican excepts the existence of the border. So what happens in NI according to your logic happens in the north of Ireland according to mine. Ireland is my country so everything that happens here concerns me, whether its Dublin or Belfast or kerry or outside my front door. Im not `1 bit frightened of those "nasty prods", I live where i choose in my country
Oh, I know too well what Rep'ism is: It's a deep seated Prejudice, that the geographical island of Ireland MUST be Politically united, whether the Peoples of said land mass want to unite or not; (& to hell with Democracy or self determination!)
"No Republican excepts the existence of the border"? See, that's why you're politically irrelevant, because whether you "except" it or not, it EXISTS!!! That's the Reality & politics is the Art of the Possible, not Fantasy Land where u dwell!
@DonegalRaymie201 Yes the border exists. Thats what all hubub is about u silly little man. Must I explain everything to u as if your a child. Reps are far from politcially irrelevant. The largest Nat party in NI is Rep (the PIRA in suits if you dont mind). Not 2 mention that they trebled their seats in ROI this time round. The skys the limit my good man. & if it turns out politics is failing, younger Reps will take up the gun again. Love/hate them, their anything but irrelevant
"Yes the border exists" & "No Republican excepts the existence of the border"!!!
You're "position" is a mess of contradictions & pure self-deceit; you constantly confuse the objective Reality of what is, with what "ought" (in your view) to be!
You've swallowed hook, line & sinker the treasured duality of Catholicism, in simultaneously believing 2 contradictory statements, (These is 1 God, the Godhead is 3!). It's exactly the self-deceit that Orwell termed "Double Think" in 1984!
@DonegalRaymie201 As 4 my contradictory statements, apply your puny intellect 2 those statements why dont u. Im tired of explaining things 2 u. Its like trying to teach a dog algebra. Just because something exists today doesn't mean it will tomorrow. 1 tactic to ensure that is 2 act like it doesn't exist & watch the barriers come down 1 x 1, year by year.
If u put a frog into a pot of boiling water, he'll jump out. But if u put him into cold water & slowly heat it, he'll boil to death
FFS Moron, try reading: "simultaneously believing 2 contradictory statements"!! Do I need to explain these terms to you? WTF does "simultaneous" mean?
Both your contradictory statements are in the PRESENT TENSE Fuckwit, not temporally distinct! "Yes the border exists" & "No Republican excepts the existence of the border"!!
It's classic, Orwellian "Double Think", only you're too uneducated & unread to recognise it, whether you "except" it or not!
@DonegalRaymie201 You dissappoint me so with your petty technicalities. The fact is you know exactly what I mean, so cut the crap please. So I can take it from your statement above, you admit that the Rep cause is a morally righteos cause, without the the violence of course???
FFS, there's nothing "petty" about logical consistency! It's just that you & your minions have never bothered to worry about such things, because your entire "cause" is based on an unexamined, irrational prejudice!
There's NOTHING Morally righteous in the Rep' cause, because NO Moral Principle underpins it!
If you were truly committed to Democracy, or Freedom from Discrimination & Universal Suffrage, like Gandhi or MLK, THEN you'd have a cause! (But then you wouldn't be a Rep'!)
@DonegalRaymie201 BS of the highest order. U know well that Reps do not accept the borders right to exist, so stop with the juvenile word games. The moral principle of self-determination for all the people on this island without any foreign interference is what under-pins republicanism. And the only thing peaceful agitation in the North was about 2 get caths was ethnically cleansed. The PIRA was orginally formed as defensive org after the OIRA had failed 2 protect Nat areas from prod pograms
You're an illogical, moronic child! You can't put up ANY kind of rational argument for your side, so you just rant & sloganize!
Whether you like or accept the Border's existence is irrelevant! It does, and it has since 1922. Your opinion about a matter of OBJECTIVE FACT, is as relevant as your belief as to whether Paris should be the Capital of France: it doesn't change it FFS!
And Self-determination means people have the right to opt out & go their own way, as NI did in '21...
@DonegalRaymie201 Silly child, everything can b changed if the will exists 2 change it & in the case of that plastic state u call NI, it can & will b changed. When u speak of the will of the people, u speak only of unionist will. The people of Tyrone or Fermanagh cerainly didn't want to b a part of it with Tyrone Co Council pledging its allegiance to the Dáil. Not 2 mention LG admitting the weak case 4 “forcing these two Co's against their will” Where was the self-determination there brains?
Nonsense, only the future can be changed; the Past is immutable, yet you can't help but rant against it!
NI is no more or less "plastic" than the ROI, FFS! They were both created by the same Treaty, the 1 SF negotiated and ratified!
The Unionists (& the IPP), both opposed the Partition, but you like to omit this from your rants. SF and SF alone are responsible for Partition, but you're such a hypocrit you like to glide over this fact! SF NEVER had ANY mandate from ANYONE!
@DonegalRaymie201 How can the future b changed when it hasn't happened yet? Ur a bright boy alright, LOL. And the ROI wasn't created by the same treaty, the free state was created by the treaty & thats LONG GONE. All that remains is 2 tear down the NI part & we're on the pigs back.
The unionists orginally opposed partition but they certainly did not at the time of the treaty. In fact it was LG needing their votes in WM that cemented partition. Brit democracy in action, FFS u make me sick
@DonegalRaymie201 Now, now here's what u said "only the future can be changed". Meaning u can change what hasn't even happened yet. Of course I understand what you meant, but I know how you love that "logical consistency". We must have "logical consistency" after all, mustn't we?
The modern Rep is Gerry Adams who has genius levels of intelligence. More than u can ever dream of my naive silly little friend. & u aleady know what modern Rep is based on, the same thing it has always been.
Brainless, your pish has NOTHING to do with logical consistency!
It's an ontological tautology, that the Future is amenable to actions in the Present, therefore, what we do in the Present "changes" the Future, changes that which has yet to happen! QED
And your pathetic attempts at avoidance get you nowhere:
What is the "Rational case for modern Rep'ism & the Moral maxim on which it is based??? (Go on, give us a laugh then...)
I've already given you a definition for starters...
@DonegalRaymie201 Yes the future is amenable to actions in the present but you still cant change what hasn't happened yet, you can only change your present circimstances. Changing th future is an accurate statement im afraid & we must correct these little inaccuracies so we have that all important "logical consistency"
BTW, Im not avoiding anything. Im just not playing your silly little game. You know what Rep is based on & so do I. If u have prob with any of it, speak up, otherwise shut up
Brainless, your pathetic attempts at being smart, simply reveal your lack of education! Logical Consistency is adherence to the Law of Excluded Middle; maybe you can get your intellectual giant, Gerry Adams to explain that concept to you, (Christ ur in trouble!)
Rep'ism, HAS NO Rational basis, it rests on NO Political Philosophy! That's ur problem right there & why you can never put up a coherent case!
All u have is an unexamined "Gut feeling", that all Ireland must be forceably united
@DonegalRaymie201 The only only concept i need be concerned about in this case is that u cant change the future as it hasn't happened yet i.e. the statement is illogical. No amount of slithering will change that. Admit u chose your words wrongly & move on. Fight ur massively inflated ego, id bet it does u no favours.
As 4 forcibly reuniting the country, i dont think its necessary or indeed moral anymore. 69 was different as caths had been backed into a corner but now theres other means
Moron, you CAN change the future PRECISELY BECAUSE it has not yet happened! If it had happened, it would be, by definition HISTORY, and therefore unalterable! Is there not a grown-up there who can explain these difficult ideas to you?
"As 4 forcibly reuniting the country, i dont think its necessary or indeed moral ANYMORE."???
Another admission that you think it WAS Moral, to force People into a Union they did not want!! Christ you're not the sharpest tool in the box boyo!
@DonegalRaymie201 Your clearly a unionist fanatic. I hav been corresponding with u on & off 4 ages & ur locked into a unionist mindset. When u talk of pple, u only refer 2 unionists who r the minority in Ireland. If the nats in the 6 Co's were forced into the union, then it is legitmate to use force 2 resist, especially since they enforced that union with an apartheid state & crushed peaceful resistance. There4 the only option left was force & in stepped de brave PIRA, God Bess them
@DonegalRaymie201 Nonense from a fool. The NI parliment choose to remain part of the union, which was of course complely & utterly dominated by unionist politicains, How could it not b when it was an arbritary line cut across Ireland to ensure a unionist maj. Of course the Nats in Ferm & tyrone, who were in the maj never got a say but u always convienently leave that out.
AS for my education, I have a degree in Bus/Marketing, although I struggle to remember the module we did on the "troubles"
Told you MANY times, that the Unionists gained 25 of 37 seats across the WHOLE of Ulster in 1918! And they were fucking Unionists, so they stood on a Unionist platform FFS: They were completely opposed to Partition, and if it had to happen, then they wanted ALL Ulster. Carson saw 1921 as a disaster, and moved to England soon after.
And given that 25.6% of people voted for Unionists, 46.6% SF: How many counties should the Unionists have retained? (The 26% who voted IPP got nothing!)
@DonegalRaymie201 Revisionism at its finest, you'd make a great Brit. There was 105 seats in 1918 general election in Ireland. SF won 73 of them giving them an overwhelming majority in the country. And they fought the elction on the platform of complete seperation from Britain. Therefore the vast majority of people wanted speration from Britain. U can twist & turn anyway you want, but unionists were a minority then & they are 1 today. No amount of your BS can ever change that fact.
Brainless, it was a UK GENERAL ELECTION, not a Referendum on Independence!
Even still: "Therefore the vast majority of people wanted speration from Britain"!!! Since when is 46% of votes a vast majority?? In what mathematical system does that ANY KIND OF MAJORITY make?
Not only do you have zero concept of Logic & reason, but you have your own Non-Aligned Maths too!
SF nowhere even mentioned starting a war they had no mandate for!
@DonegalRaymie201 Yes & in that UK general election over 75% of the seats in Ireland went to a seccessionist party who made clear that they intended not to take their seats in WM. In any demcracy goobally, they had the mandate 2 go their our way peacefully. But John Bull wouldn't agree 2 that & moved the goalposts. Unionists had a minority of seats & at best they should have been an opposition party. But of course LG. needed there votes in WM to keep himself in power: shame on him
@DonegalRaymie201 Ireland was part of the UK by forceful means & in any civilised society, this is totally unaccpetable. 2nd, Brit does not have a constitution so the only way the poeple of Ireland could make their intentions loud & clear that they did not want to be pat of the union, was 2 vote on a secesionist platform, which overwhelming did. What the minority unionists thought is an irrelavance as they were a minority & as such are bound by the majority decision in a democracy.
UTTER FUCKING BULL! The UK DOES have a CONSTITUTION & has had since Cromwell asserted the Primacy of Parliament in 1649! They are just about to vote on changing the Electoral System too, by guess what, A REFERENDUM!
ALL Constitutional change requires a Single issue Direct Vote by the People, and 46% is not even a fuckin' Majority anyway, even if it were a Referendum, (which it wasn't!)
According to your "logic" if SNP win most seats in May, (very possible), then Scot is Independent???
@DonegalRaymie201 Since the Eng Civil War, the bedrock of the Brit constitution has trad been the doctrine of parliamentary sovereignty, according 2 which the statutes passed by Parliament r the UK's supreme and final source of law. It follows that WM can change the constitution simply by passing new Acts. In other words. the Uk has no consistittion which requires the consent of people. e.g. the vast maj of brit people wanted no part in the Iraqi conflict but were simply overuled by the Govt
Brainless, IRAQ was an unpopular government decision, not a change in the Constitutional Nature of the UK!
The UK can't even change it's Electoral System without a Plebiscite FFS! And I could try & explain the separation of the Legislature from Parliament, and other such distinctions, but frankly it's way beyond your level!
I see you can't grasp the example of SNP winning a majority of seats, but that not making Scot Independent??
@DonegalRaymie201 If the SNP win the maj of seats, it would then b feasable 4 them 2 call a referendum 4 full independence. Its as simple as that. That oppurtunity didn't apply in 1918 election in Ireland as the british refused to even consider the matter. Therefore the only option was armed insurrection & if I dont say so myself, that insurrection achieved 80% of its ideals but with John Bull firmly kicked out on his arse. I'd expect the othjer 20% to follow shotly, regardless of ur opinion
Pure & utter Provo Republican Bullshit Propoganda, as always! SF could EASILY have called for a Referendum after the 1918 Election, but they couldn't be sure to win it, as they failed to gain a Majority share of the votes!
"John Bull firmly kicked out on his arse." You're having a laugh! The LG didn't even use the Brit Army to quell the insurection, yet Collins admitted his IRA were days from defeat, (when he signed the Treaty for SF!)
@DonegalRaymie201 It may come as agreat shock to you, but collins wasn't the IRA, he was simply a member. The vast majority of IRA volunteers felt that they could have continued the war indefinitly. We'll never know if thats true now. Anyway im sure Collins would have said anything to defend his position after signing the treaty. Furthermore, correct me if im wrong but the brits never agreed to a referendum even in principle as they felt(wrongly) that ireland was an integral part of the UK
What a feckin Liar! "he was simply a member."?? Collins was the LEADER of the IRA, and if anyone knew how close to defeat they were, it was him!
SF never campaigned for a Referendum on Independence, they never even raised the issue in Westminster! Because, like I say, they knew they would lose a simple Referendum, as they didn't command a Majority of the Popular Vote, so they wouldn't risk it!
They simply set up their own Dail & then the insurrection that followed!
@DonegalRaymie201 Furthermore: Brit Legal scholars argue that de uncodified nature of the UK constitution means that the lack of an effective separation of powers & the fact that parliamentary sovereignty allows Parliament to overrule fundamental rights makes it to some extent a "FACADE" constitution. Unfortualy 4 u, the actual % polled by SF is irrelevat, the amount of seats they won is what counts & they won 75% of the seats, giving them a clear mandate to secede, minority unionists be damned
@DonegalRaymie201 definition mandate "A command r an authorization given by a political electorate to its representatives" In this case the occupying Brit mllitary who were quiet clearly under a 2 mandate pull out of Ireland as was the wish of the vast majority of the people Ireland. U cant argue with 3/4 of the seats going to a Rep party, no matter how u try to slither & change the subject. Get it true ur head, unionists have always been a minority & now that minority is shrinking ever year
Fuckwit, the MAJORITY voted for either IPP or IUP parties, so SF had no Mandate, because they had NO Majority share of the vote!!! AND it was a UK General Election, not a Referendum, which SF DIDN'T Call because they were afraid they wouldn't win it!
It's not rocket science, except to you!
You're just too fuckin' thick to appreciate the paucity of your own argument: it's laughable to grown ups!
@DonegalRaymie201 3/4 of the seats is a majority vote know matter what way you look at it & is more than enough to form a majority Govt. Not ot metion the fact that they fought election on the platform of complete seperation from Britain. As for the IPP, your attempts at linking them with unionist are laughable, considering they fought on a platform of all-ireland home rule. partition wasn't even on the cards by the vast majority of the irish people, except of course the minority unionist pop
@DonegalRaymie201 Collins wasn't the leader of anything u clown, he was director of intelligence IN THE ira & finance minister on the civilian side of things. The local units around the country acted more or less independently & most wanted no part of the treaty especailly the Munster units. 3/4 of the seats went to SF & thats all there is to it, despite your squiming & throwing your toys out of the pram. NO plebiscite was required, the feeling of the people was load & clear, BRITS OUT
Respond to this video...And 'i'll say it again Tyrone & Fermanagh never wanted to be part of an apartheid orange state & were forced in to it anyway & suffered greatly through the years so LG & co could hold on to their precious majority in WM.
@DonegalRaymie201 And you still havn't adressed the reason why nationalists in Tyrone & Fermanagh were forced into the orange apartheid state against their will???? Being the great democrat you are, id imagine that question poses some problems for your warped logic. So you choose to ignore it,
FFS, APARTHEID was a system of RACIAL segregation & RACIAL superiority, ENSHRINED in LAW! The people of South Africa, were classed at birth as BANTU, COLOUREDS, INDIANS, WHITE BRITISH/IRISH, WHITE AFRIKAANS, and LAWS defined their place in society!
Bantu Blacks had almost NO rights, NO vote, could not have ANY sexual relations with WHITES, or be guilty of Statutory Rape!
Where the fuck are the parallels? You know FA about APARTHEID, & your idiotic use of the word demeans black folk!
Look up the word "racial" moron! In SA, they put a pen in your hair to see if it would stick! THAT determined how BLACK you were, and what rights you might get! Everyone got a vote in the UK, regardless of race or religion, just like here believe it or not!
Where were the Laws of this Apartheid in NI then? Where are the parallels?
There is no fuckin' comparison, and you demean the People who lived thru' REAL APARTHEID, ya prick!
@DonegalRaymie201Quote "Caths are out to destroy Ulster. If we in Ulster allow RC's to work on our farms we are traitors to Ulster...I would appeal to loyalists, therefore, wherever possible, to employ good Prods only"
Northern PM Sir basil Brooke. Can you imagine if any southern politician every made such remarks, he would be finished in every way, yet amoung Northern prods he was a hero. Thats the differeence between us & them
One bigots opinion! There were No Laws made to enforce any such discimination however, unlike our own De valera who introduced LAW that discriminated against Prods or any Non-catholics in point of fact!
And here's more for you ya hypocrit: "In 1943 Oliver J. Flanagan (FG), a Dáil (lower chamber) member, aroused little protest when he proposed to the house to 'rout the Jews out of this country'."
@DonegalRaymie20 Any sympathy i may have had for the Jews has long dissapeared considering their bestial behaviour in Palestine. They broke every UN resolution since 1948 whilst all the time ethnically cleansing arabs & continuing with their illegal settlemets in the west bank. etc. Only getting away with it because of their friendship with america. Any other country behaving similarly would face the severest of consequences from the international community & rigthly so
You mean ISRAELIS, possibly even Zionists, but to tar ALL JEWS, (many of whom oppose Israel's existence!), because of the behaviour of those in just Israel, mark you out for the BIGOTTED, PREJUDICED, PRICK I've long known you to be!
It's EXACTLY the same as hating all CATHOLICS because of the Genocide committed in Crotia during WW2
@DonegalRaymie201 The vast majority of jews consider themselves loyal to Israel 1st & the land of their birth 2nd. Therefore they are equally to blame. They have acted little better than savages since the inception of israel & I for 1 who hope they get exacly whats coming to them. BY their behaviour to day & from my personal experience with them, Im not 1 bit suprised that they have been universly hated in every country they have ever infested.
Look you arrogant, bigot & anti-semite, you don't SPEAK for "The vast majority of jews", you don't speak for the vast majority of ANYONE!
Only Zionists believe in modern Israel, & they are but 1 part of the Judaic Pantheon. Many Jews accept that the Jewish Diaspara was Yahweh's will, and therefore Modern Israel is counter to God's judgement!
"universly hated in every country they have ever infested."? Spoken like Charles Bewley himself, and proof that the ROI was Anti Non-RC...
@DonegalRaymie201 & yes i am an anti-semite if that means i hate the Israelis. As bad as the "final solution" was, i cant help but feel the Nazis should hav finished the job. There animal behaviour towards the arabs may yet bring about the destruction of humanity. International law means nothing to them & they act with impunity with US backing. The day the US withdraws that support will b the end 4 them, the sooner the better. A nice pogrom in limerick fixed their wagon here back in the day
You know, there is 1 thing I do love about you Provo worshipping Morons: You are SOOO consistently predictable! Give you enough rope & you always hang yourselves, often repeatedly!
"bad as the "final solution" was, i cant help but feel the Nazis should hav finished the job"!
There's not really much to add to that: It says all that anyone needs to know about your ilk & why, like I've told you before, you're an irrelevance to grown-ups.
@DonegalRaymie201 Blah, blah, the fact remains that the israelis r a major cause of most of the conflict in the world today, directly & indirectly. They completly ignore international law, constantly expanding illegal settlements in occupied territories & ethnically cleansing palestinians at will. They've killed more palestinians civilians this year than the IRA did in 30 years. Their a stain on humanity & I for 1 will be happy bunny when they get their just dues, the sooner the better
HARK, What is that I hear? Is that the sound of another Wannabe Provo, "Goose Stepping" around his bedroom & raving against DAS JUDEN, & pining for Mein Fuhrer???
You know, I thought OZ was a bit OTT in his association of Rep'ism & Nazism, but it seems it was me that was unduly lenient on you! Sure enough, you simply aren't that fusy about who you focus your HATE on: Brits, Prods, Jews, Morris Dancers...
@DonegalRaymie201 Never said i hated the jews. Y dont u actually read wat i said. I do despise the israelis & find it ironic that u hate Reps when the israelis do more damage in 1 year than the IRA did in 30. Its plain 2 see that your empathy extends only 2 unionists & no1 else. Ur a hypocrite plain & simple. BTW, I dont hate de brits. On a personal level i quite like them but I dont want any part of Ireland ruled by them, because unlike u im not a west brit arse licker, but a proud gael
@borledx You are such a fuckin' LIAR! Listen to your own feckin lies: "Never said i hated the jews" & "i cant help but feel the Nazis should hav finished the job" & "A nice pogrom in limerick fixed their wagon here back in the day" & "they have been universly hated in every country they have ever infested." QED. YOU Sir, a proven, fuckin' LIAR! just like every other Rep' on here I've ever encountered: You really haven't a shred of integrity between you, that's why I loath modern rep'ism!
@DonegalRaymie201 Fair enough, loath away, your opinions r abhorrent 2 me as well. I'd put u in a hole in the ground if i got the chance. That still doesn't explain ur love 4 your ulster "brethern" who promise 2 leave NI a burnt shell & committ genocide if ireland is ever united democratically. Your a hypocrite plain & simple. I believe the prods have a word for you, "lundy", i think they call it.
BTW, i dont hate jews because there jewish, what i despise is the near nazi state of israel
Christ Allmighty! You morons have been lying to yourselves so long, you don't even know when you're lying to others!
It's your Lies & lack of Integrity I despise! I may not agree with everything Paisley & the DUP stand for, but I can at least trust them to be honest! Something Rep's have never been..
And if you only hate jews because of Israel, then "nice pogrom in limerick fixed their wagon here back in the day", when Israel didn't even exist??? Makes you a Liar & moron yet again!!!
@DonegalRaymie201 Yes the DUP would never lie, LOL. I must have heard Ian paisley say 100 times in interviews how he has no problems with RC's & regularly helps his RC constituents. Kind of makes a mockery of his famous public rants on the evils of papishness & RC's. No1 person can b blamed 4 the troubles, but if i has 2 pick 1 I'd pick paisley. THe GFA was a "sellout" 2 Ulster, until of course the DUP were the largest unionist party, now their as thick as thieves with SF, FFS ur some clown
Are you retarded? Yes of course Paisley rants against the RC Church and the perniciousness of Catholicism, he is a Presbyterian Minister after all, and is following DIRECTLY in the Tradition of Calvin & Knox! John Knox made even stronger condemnations of the corruption of Christianity, (as he saw it), by Rome 400 odd years ago, and HE WAS A CATHOLIC PRIEST!
But that is not the same as hating individual catholics: 1 can "love the sinner, but hate the sin"!
@DonegalRaymie201 Paisley hated RC's full stop & was the 1 man most responsible 4 the troubles. He brought down the moderate O'Neil Govt 4 makin concessions 2 RC's that wud hav satisfied the maj of RC's & prevented the outbreak of the troubles with firey speeches about "papish" conspiricies & radiclised de prod pop. He played a key role in destroying Sunningdale which didnt even include Reps & again opposed de anglo-irish agreement which again sidelined Reps. Hes a moral coward & a hypocrite
You know sweet FA about Paisley's likes & dislikes, so don't talk shite!
He "hates" Catholicism at a Doctrinal, theological level, because he sees RCism as a Corruption of Christ's message, but he's hardly the 1st person to articulate those criticisms: That's Historic Protestantism! Paisley is only repeating what Knox preached & wrote, & Knox was a RC Priest FFS!
Like it or not, Paisley never killed or tortured anyone (except from the pulpit maybe!), and ALWAYS condemned Violence!
@DonegalRaymie201 We're not talkin bout de history of de reformation so spare me. Im talkin about paisleys role in not only precipitating the troubles with his rabble rousing. But also his venement opposition 2 every effort made 2 appease moderate Nats which wud sideling Reps & cut de legs from under de IRA
Paisley is a moral coward, frightened of damnation if he kills personally, but he consistenly enroused passions 2 the point where he knew violence wud b inevitable. He thinks he can fool GOd
No because you haven't the foggiest about the Reformation or you'd grasp the Tradition in which Paisley is speaking! You claimed he personally hates Catholics, yet can't contribute a shred of evidence to that effect!
"Paisley is a moral coward, frightened of damnation if he kills personally"?? THAT Fuckwit, makes him a Christian!
And for all you might hate him, Paisley is on record many times condemning both Rep' & Loyalist Violence. And for that I have to respect him!
@DonegalRaymie201 My evidence is that everytime during the conflict that a deal that wud have satisfied moderate RC's was being done, whilst at the same time sidelining Reps, who he claimed as his enemies, Paisley was at the 4front of destroying any hope of an agreement.
He might hav fooled u, but he wont have fooled God. His rheotoric was consciously aimed at inciting prods 2 violence & he then stood back from it. So yes hes a moral coward inciting others 2 violence he wudn't do himself
@DonegalRaymie201 Its not opinion when its historical fact & part of the public record. Paisley opposed granting any civil rights to RCs, he opposed Sunningdale, Anglo-irish agreement. No1 can deny he was a loyalist icon & played a key role in destroying all these attempts at concessions 2 moderate RCs. In fact, the success of any of the above wud hav hurt Rep paras, perhaps destroyed them? I dont claim 2 speak 4 God but i do know dat if he exists, he knew Ians real vile intentions/meanings
@DonegalRaymie201 Im still waiting 4 a scrap of proof G.Adams was in the IRA. The civil rights movement was a papish conspiracy, is that it?? They had legitimate grievances & Paisley opposed any & all attempts at addressing those grievances. Pograms & riots coincided with paisleys speeches regularly. Do u think he's stupid? Do u think he didnt realise his words would cause prods to react violently against RCs? He's "3rd force" committed violence, which he convienently denied knowledge of
Given up fuck all prick! You just can't produce a single speech or article that shows Paisley EVER condoned violence at all! Just like you can't point to a SINGLE UK LAW that discriminated against RCs or describe what Civil Rights were witheld!
Blacks in the US had legitimate discrimination, enscribed in legal statute against them before 1964! No such legal discrimination existed in the UK!
@DonegalRaymie201 SO there was no legitimate civil rights movement in NI? It was all a papish plot? Is that what your saying? The 100,000s of people were making up all their grievances prodded on by the IRA & the pope? And the faminine was self-inflicted even though Brit landlords owned 95% arable land & sold the food 2 Eng? And because a few Brit arse licking Irish in Dub did well, it was OK the population was exterminated. Enough now, im finished, ur beneath me wit ur stupidity, Goodbye
Fuckin' Brilliant! Every time I ask a Provo wannabe to back up their ASSERTIONS with some actual EVIDENCE, they do exactly this: Spit the dummy, grab the ball & declare "It's my ball and I'm no playin' anymore!"
It's feckin' priceless!
No evidence, no rational argument, just Provo slogans & rants which if you fail to swallow & dare to question. make you an INFIDEL to the Rep' TALIBAN!
No wonder the Indians in NI are Unionists, they know dogmatic BS when they see it!
@DonegalRaymie201 I've come to realise that rational argument isn't your strong point. YOu have some other agenda, maybe you have some issues r whatever. I should have known by the way your comments always seem to get the thumbs up on every page & some of the nonense you come out with, you wouldnt hear from Johnny Adair. Either way, Im not playing anymore. Go & find some other unbalanced person to play with. Theres plenty around on YT, Toodle doo
Well it's been strong enough to run rings around you for months!
My "agenda" remains to expose the sheer, blatant hypocrisy and intellectual vacuum that modern Rep'ism has descended into! I have yet to encounter a single Rep' on here, with a shred of honesty, let alone integrity: your "support" really does come from the gutter; the bottom 10% in every sense & human facet!
I know, I've been blocked from many Rep' sites for even QUESTIONING the BS!
@DonegalRaymie201 Make sure & use your multiple accounts to give yourself the thumbs up & be the top rated comment with that insight. You sad little person.
That's funny, I live about as far North as it's possible to be on this island & the only British prescence I see, is that of the VERY welcome British tourists!
You know fuckwit, you could take your anti-Brit propoganda around every business in Letterkenny, and I'd stake good money, that 98% of them would "run you oot the door wi' yer tail a'tween yer legs"!
Nobody has time for your childish, spiteful crap, especially when you live this close to the People you defame! Wake up moron.
@DonegalRaymie201 And if you need any more proof of the apartheid nature of the Ornage state, here is a quote by South African apartheid Prime Minster Johannes Verster
"who told critics of his own emergency legislation that he would gladly exchange it for the Northern Ireland Special Powers Act (Bell 1993, p. 45).
This proves nothing at all! It is not EMERGENCY POWERS that introduced Apartheid, it was Ordinary, Peace-time laws of enforced Legal Segregation, and Racial Classification!
Christ I'm tired educating your paultry excuse for learning and cretinous vocabulary! Stick to the wee words that you know the meaning of, because you'll just embarass yourself again like 3days ago!
Nationalists in Tyrone & Fermanagh stayed in the UK as part of NI, just as Unionists & IPP voters were dragged into the Freestate that they never voted for!!!
And all because your hypocritical SF started a war without Mandate, and then SF, & SF alone passed the Treaty of Partion to save face on the eve of defeat, (according to Collins)!!
And it really shows the Utter POVERTY of your "case" that in 2011, the ONLY Election you can even grasp at, is a 1918 UK GENERAL ELECTION FFS!
And "Ireland" is a geographical landmass, the second largest island in the british Isles archipeligo. That's it!
It is not a Nation State & it never has been in its' entire history! The ROI is a nation state that dates from the 1949. Its' predecessor was Eire & before that the Irish Freestate!
NI is a devolved province of the UK. That's the reality here, & no amount of your bullshit propoganda change the FACTS 1 iota!
Told you before, you need to look up "Apartheid" in the dictionary!
@DonegalRaymie201 Actually if we only take the Brit occupation of ireland, it was administered as 1 country. They only insisted on partition in the treaty because they were pandering to the unionists whos votes they needed for their coalition at the time. & im quite sure if u live long enough u will see your precious union ened once & for all in this country.
Defintion: Derived from the Afrikaans word for "apartness" The condition of being separated from others; segregation
FFS eejit, Ireland THEN was entirely in the UK, with Irish MPs & even PMs!
"It is not a Nation State & it never has been in its' entire history!"
You really struggle with reading don't you?
It was YOUR SF that negotiated then ratified the Treaty in 1921! The IPP & Unionists OPPOSED it, but with that legendary SELF-DECEIT of Rep'ism, you always ignore this feckin fact: That Partition was your doing! The MPs in the North wanted to remain in the Parliament to which they were ELECTED!
@DonegalRaymie201 BTW, it was fools like you whinging about "violence is counter productive" back in 1919 as well & talking about the law. If we listened to you & the great "majority", we'd still be part of the UK now.
@DonegalRaymie201 Well the likes you always existed unfortunately. Ready to sit around & wait for the superior English to grant you your freedom, but others weren't. Thats why you live in Republic today. With all its faults, its leaders are still ultimately responsible to you. Thats something the English never were & never could be. As for the othe constituents of the UK, Eng has messed them up so much, they dont what they are anymore. There all living on the crowns tit & know nothing else
No idiot, that's why we live on a Divided Island, because your beloved SF started a War they couldn't win & had no Mandate for! And then on the eve of defeat, (according to Collins), SF passed the Partition Treaty to save face, pure & simple!
Told you before, Mandela, Gandhi & Luther King achieved FAR more without EVER sullying their hands with violence, and in doing so, NEVER betrayed the Moral Rightness of their position.
But of course, that requires you to outside yer own midden!
The fact that "you've never lived in Ulster, you didn't experience the Troubles 1st hand" make your "opinion" here vacuous! The fact that you don't get to VOTE on NI matters, (so much for it being YOUR country, eh?) makes you an irrelevance! Simples!
Your "Pick & mix" politics, come from your support of the IRA when it suits you but criticism of them & their followers when it doesn't!
Rep'ism is like the Taliban, blind FAITH, not reason!
@borledx Fuckin' Google it ya prick, I think it was during the Eucharistic Congress in 1932 or whenever, point is, it's a FACT. As for 2 of 5 presidents being nominal Protestants, that was only because they were big knobs with plenty of dough to back 'em up, not ordinary working men. + they were prepared to kiss the feet of republican hierachy (or a Bishop's ring?!) Do you know where Fotherd is? Go and look it up!
@oz1641 As i said, saying somethings true doesn't make it so. You "think" doesn't cut it. I can find no record that Dev ever said any such thing. Also you unwittingly hit on 1 of the reasons for the prods drop in pop. The "big knobs" married into each other & r still "big knobs" today. The poorer prods were more widely spread & socialised with the lower class caths & married into them. They were assimalated over time. There was no institutionalised discrimation r pogroms like the north
@borledx You cannot deny the institutionalised discrimination that took place. You must be the most deluded fool on YT if you think that Protestants were well treated by the gov. of the Free State. Btw why would intermarriage result in less Protestants unless there was some part of Roman Catholic theology that meant all children from such unions HAD to be raised as good wee RCs!?! Sounds a bit insecure from a body that calls itslef "the one true Church"?? Away to light the BBQ, catch ye later...
@oz1641 I can & will deny it. I have lived here since I was born & can honestly say I have never seen any discrimination against protestants. Theres 2 reasons why the chldren were catholic. 1 is yes they would have been under pressure from the church but it wasn't law & people simply conformed. The other is that there was a glut of prod single women as many of the men had been killed in WW1. And of course at that time, the husbands word was law.
@borledx So you admit that the Church of Rome is chauvinistic & intolerant, well that's a start. Your denials count for nought, I personally know of at least a dozen families whose forefathers FLED the Free State in the 1920s because of indimidation, threats, boycotts (organised by RC priests) and institutional discrimination. Wher those people just being paranoid?? Btw, do you even know any Protestants?!
@oz1641 Yes the Church is chauvinistic & intolerant, u'll get no denials on that score from most people. But for the most part, caths bore the brunt of that. Prods were simply left alone as they weren't part of the "flock". Either way, the ROI has no truck with religion now & is fast moving towards being a secular state. Im sure the families were being paranoid e.g. 00s of prods fled in the aftermath of Brit withdrawal because of 1 incident in cork & yes i do know prods, proud Irishmen all
@borledx This is the same "ROI" that only recently legalised such things as divorce and homosexuality?! the same state that still has a "special relationship" with the "true church"?? You're full of shite & provo propaganda (same thing?)
@oz1641 Have u actually spent much time in the "free state"? Because your bigoted nonense seems 2 suggest otherwise. Theres a mosque & prod church nearer to my house than a RC church. Not 2 mention the fact that homosexuality was only legalised in the 6 Co's when the Euro Court of human rights forced ye to do so. AS for the special relationship with the church, its only natural considering 90% of the pop was RC when the constitution was written-at same time guaranting freedom of religion
@oz1641 Contrast this with the great NI PM Sir Basil Brooke remarks 2 the orange order, "Many in this audience employ RC's, but I have not 1 about my place. Caths are out to destroy Ulster. If we in Ulster allow RC's to work on our farms we are traitors to Ulster...I would appeal to loyalists, therefore, wherever possible, to employ good Prods only"
If any ROI politician ever made sectarian remarks like this he would be finished politically & publicly shunned, thats the diff between us & ye
@oz1641 Contrast this with the great NI PM Sir Basil Brooke remarks 2 the orange order, "Many in this audience employ RC's, but I have not 1 about my place. Caths are out to destroy Ulster. If we in Ulster allow RC's to work on our farms we are traitors to Ulster...I would appeal to loyalists, therefore, wherever possible, to employ good Prods only"
If any ROI politician ever made sectarian remarks like this he would be finished politically & publicly shunned, thats the diff between us & ye
@borledx Have you got a stammer Lol? Are you seriously trying to say that the Free State is non-sectarian?! because if so you are a fuckin' fool. The 'RoI' was & still remains, a theocratic, sectarian & monocultural entity.
In 1920/21/22 Protestants, most of 'em poor farmers & artisans, were forced from their homes, sometimes at gunpoint. In the years that followed, Prods were treated like dirt. Ever heard of a place called Fethard on Sea??
@oz1641 1 isloated incident in the bog in 1953(no violence involved & not state sanctioned), so fucking what? Is that the best u can come up wit? I notice u left out the part where the family was eventually reconciled. Contrast that with institutionilsed sectarianism in the 6 Co's, No votes, no jobs, no housing & no rights 4 caths & if they dared complained, god help them. I'll ask again, have u ever spent any time in the "free state"? I doubt it considering ur bigoted perceptions.
@borledx "No votes, no jobs, no housing & no rights" OK back up your assertion ya turdhead. Some Unionist controlled councils discriminated against RCs in some cases, just like Rep. controlled councils (like Newry) did against Prods. People, Protestant & RC couldn't vote unless they owned property, this was called the 'property qualification' and was exactly the same system used in England until the late 1940s & is PROVEN to have been no disadvantage to republicans. Many Rcs also had good jobs.
@oz1641 i dont make any statment i cant back up unlike u. No votes example: Derry city which had a large Nat majority but a unionist council because of gerrymandering. There4 RC's effectivley had no vote. Housing discrimation: the allocation of a house to single prod women instead of an RC family with 3 children in Caledon,Tyrone. Not 4getting the 250 RC's on the housing list in that area alone. No rights: special powers act so admired by the South African apartheid Govt used soley on RC's
@borledx So if you cannot get a majority you just it somehow disqualifies you from voting at all?!! hahahaha As for your ex. of discrimination in housing, I conceded that it happened in SOME CASES in Unionist council areas & in rep. council areas too (like Newry) remember?? And didn't the Free State not have a Special Powers act aswell? Wasn't it the Free St. Gov that executed more IRA men post 1921 than us 'Brits' in the previous 15 yrs. (since the inception of the IRA)?? truth hurt does it!?
@oz1641 NO moron, Nats had the maj in Derry & many other places in NI, but stormount gerrymandered the electoral districts 2 ensure unionist dominated councils There4 RC's had no vote. I think u shud check the definition of gerrymandering as u clearly dont understand de term. The "freestate" had a special powers act during a civil war which is normal, whilst NI had 1 for 50 years & was greatly admired by the S.Africans. The housing discrimination was std practice, take ur head out of ur arse
@borledx So then why wasn't a SINGLE COMPLAINT brought against Belfast council? the largest council in NI. The Cameron commision investigated claims of discrim. in only 4 COUNCILS, one of those was nat. controlled Newry Urban Co. Gerrymandering DID happen in L'derry, I concede that, & it was wrong, however Gerrymandering DID NOT GO ON EVERYWHERE. "nats" did not have a maj. in "many other places", RCs at the time were just 30% of the pop. so Gerrymandering was not needed...
@oz1641 At the time Belfast was a maj unionist city so there was no need 4 gerrymandering there, although I read recently that RC's are now in the majority in Belfast. Derry is the most famous example of blatant gerrymandering but Dungannon, Lurgan, Enniskillen, etc were all gerrymandered as well. Also Tyrone & Fermanagh have always had RC majorities & at the time of partition, Tyrone Co council pledged its loyalty 2 Dublin wishing 2 have no part of NI, hence the gerrymandering tactic by prods
@borledx So in Lurgan & Enniskillen, 2 towns which even now have Unionist majorities you reckon there was gerrymandering? and you think that Tyrone Co. council pledged allegiance to Dublin!? and yet you have the front to lecture me about knowing my history?? hahahhaha...
@oz1641 Their was an inquiry on 5th february 1964. Lurgan had a 42% RC population yet not 1 Nat counciler on the council. Ennislillen had 54% RC pop while having 6 councilers as opposed to 20 unionist councilers. No gerrymandering my arse. Its also a matter of historical record that Tyrone Co council pledged their allegiance to Dublin on hearing of partition, as Tyrone had always had a Nat majority just like Fermanagh. Y should 2 co's b forced into the union when they wanted no part of it?
@borledx 45% of the pop. of Fermanagh & 40% of Tyrone are Unionist, and they weren't "forced into the union" Lol they were KEPT within the Union. If your 'facts' are correct then why today does Fermanagh dist.council have only 23 councillors, 10 of whom are Unionists?!? What's the name of this 'inquiry' you are referring to? 'cause if it's the one I'm thinking of it was discredited years ago!
Is the news anchor a Kiwi?
He sounds a bit like one.
Kkardemumma 8 months ago
@RichardElden Sorry your too stupid to continue this conversation with, your only a child & a stupid one at that. Come back to me in 10-20 yrs when you might have a clue what your talking about. If only all loyalists were as dumb as you, we'd have a United Ireland by wendsday.
borledx 8 months ago
@RichardElden P.s. Our largest trading partners are Brit & the USA by far. We do relatively little trade with other EU countries. WE took their grants, we took their bailout & if we feel like it, we'll fuck off & make friend s withe yanks. The EU can do nothing about it.
borledx 8 months ago
@RichardElden (1) We wont be in the EU so they cant levy any fines you dumb motherfucker
(2) The money they have invested in our banks is being covered by the irish Govt
(3) Those bonds r exactly what we can default on
So you havnt come up with 1 single thing they can do to us to stop us defaulting & leaving the EU whenever we feel like it, LOL. It says your 19 i your profile, i think you lied, id guess your around 13. Wise up kid, we r no1's slaves unlike NI which jumps when London whistles
borledx 8 months ago
@borledx When you're leader of this new all island socialist gaelic republic are you going to withdraw from the EU?!? Lmfbo,, I can see the headlines now-- " Greater Irish Gaelic & Socialist Workers & Farmers Republic withdraws from European Union, President for life & Commander in Chief says no EU loans will be repaid" ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. What about the money the UK has lent your joke of a country? Because if you don't repay that, we'll invade your Potato Republic ;)
oz1641 8 months ago
@oz1641 I dont where to start with that juvenile outbdurst. But il start at the end, 1st soveriegn default is a very real possibility. Iceland have already & Greece look like they will soon. There'll be no invasions, you child. If Ireland reaches the stage where it can no longer afford 2 repay its loans, it will default & indeed some economists expect that in the next 2-3 yrs. We stay in the EU because it benefits us. If we decide it doesn't anymore we can leave, simple as that.
borledx 8 months ago
@oz1641 BTW, The free state army did defeat the IRA in less than 12 months, thats a historical fact disputed by no1. You can draw whatever conclusions you like from that fact. If it makes you laugh, so be it, but it happened,
borledx 8 months ago
@borledx "In 2004, gang-member McCaughey spoke of the planned retaliation and said that the UVF leadership also feared the potential IRA response"
borledx 8 months ago
@RichardElden How genius??
borledx 8 months ago
@RichardElden How will they stop us????? Please tell me? You cant because u havnt a clue what your talking about.
borledx 8 months ago
@RichardElden Your too stupid to continue this conversation with, your only a child. I dont why im answering you. Any country can default on its loans if it can show that it cannot repay them, thats international law. A good example would be Iceland which defaulted a few yrs ago & its like greece will default anyday. Its happened countless times. Why do u think Enda Kenny said the loans could not b paid back. I will guarantee you now that Ireland will default on those loan in the few yrs.
borledx 8 months ago
@RichardElden U should go down the Falls road & explain how their better off part of the UK 2 the locals, r better again South Armagh, ha, ha, ha Listen & i'll teach u something about economics. Either the ROIs economy booms again in the next 3-4 yrs r we default on the loan. More likely we will default. Either way we'll owe nothing & we still b 1 of the richest countries in the world GDP/captia. We should b able 2 take care of de poor people of NI who get so rich by being in the UK, LOL
borledx 8 months ago
@RichardElden ya i know your poor beggars who cant support yourselves, but your our poor beggars. We'll take ye in feed & clothe ye, dont worry. Can you tell me 1 war that britain has ever won alone against another developed nation(not zules with spears)??? Go on, give me just 1? The opinion polls in the occupied 6 Co's say different my friend. The vast majority of Nats see themselves as irish & not British & given the chloice will definitely vote 2 reunite with their fellow countrymen
borledx 8 months ago
@RichardElden The commonwealth is only a talking shop, its not important except maybe 4 networking purposes. Also it has the qeen as its head & the people of Ireland wil NEVER EVER accept that. If my aunt had balls she'd b my uncle. The pro-treaty side won, u cant change history. Fact is the IRA beat the Brits & then the irish army what the British coldn't do in 3 yrs i.e. defeated the IRA. Shortly Nats will opt out of de union in NI & theres nothing u can do about it, get used to it
borledx 8 months ago
@borledx haha "the Irish army what the British coldn't do in 3yrs i.e. defeated the IRA" Ffs do you ever re-read the shite you churn out,, you're seriously saying that the British Army of 1919-1920 was no match for the mighty Free State Army of 1921-1922!?!?!?? hahahaha...Walter Mitty,
oz1641 8 months ago
@oz1641 Whats so funny you simpleton? The Irish did do in less than 12 months what the Brit army culdn't do in 3yrs i.e. defeat the old IRA. No1 mentioned the Feestate army fighting the Brit empire. So whats so funny? Billy wright was a different era(& 1 who deserved exactly what he got & then some), the group im referring to were known as the Glennanon gang & they certainly were a proxy unit 4 hawks in Brit army intelligence wit that george Cross winner Capt nairac as the go between man
borledx 8 months ago
@borledx The Free State army defeated the IRA? So therefore you are saying that the Free State forces were better then the British Army, that's what is so funny. Also hilarious that you think there was a group called the "Glennanon gang", do you maybe mean the Glenanne gang? A MYTHICAL group of RUC & UDR men from Glenanne in s.Armagh. As for Nairac, I don't know what you're jabbering on about. You said that mid Ulster UVF were an Army proxy ya dick,, Glenanne isn't even in mid Ulster Ffs......
oz1641 8 months ago
@oz1641 1. proven liar?, how exactly?
2. My contention is loyalists have a tiny fraction of the int support Reps have & that is fact
3.We had nothing when the Brits pulled out of the 26 Co's & today we're 1 of the richest countries in the world(banking crisis r no)
4. It not racism its fact, if i moved to Engl tomorrow, i will be irish til the day i die, just like a somali.
5. Limerick has a much higher murder rate than peacetime belfast, it has the highest rate in W.Europe over the last decade
borledx 8 months ago
@RichardElden And if the couldnt beat the IRA the 1st time why should they 2nd time around brains??? Not to mentio the fact the proble was never overrunnning ireland it was holding us & making us slaves like Scot & wales. You never could in 800 yrs & you never will.
borledx 8 months ago
@RichardElden every red blooded male in the western world desires her. You caught me there. thats 1 point for your side, LOL
borledx 8 months ago
@RichardElden wow what a comeback, i can tell your a university man, masters degree at oxford id say. Why dont u try trolling on some1 with your own level of intellectual capacity. I think ill bow out, its frankly an insult to my superior intelligence to waste my time with dullards like you.
BTW, the qeen isn't exactly an oilpainting either, LOL
borledx 8 months ago
@RichardElden exports r booming is what i meant to say above. I just thought id make that clear since u seem 2 be a bit slow witted
borledx 8 months ago
@RichardElden What laws? Give me 1 law that the EU dictates to me besides the human rights convention which every member state is signed up to. How will the EU stop us from defaulting exactly & how will they stop us from leaving if we feel like it??? Inform me child, your claims grow more outlandish by the minute.
Did it ever dawn on you that Enda Kenny saying it could never be repaid is laying the groundwork 4 default?? Also r booming which is wat sustains our fabulous living stds
borledx 8 months ago
@RichardElden We cant support ourselves, really? yet we have 1 of the highest living stds in the world(much higher than brit), 1 of the best education systems in the world(scoring much higher than brit) & we have a GDP higher than NI, Scot & wales. LOL you really r a child
borledx 8 months ago
@RichardElden Give me 1 aspect of my life that the EU controls????? As i already told you, if we feel we cant meet the terms of the bailout we will simply default(that means not pay it back). And if the EU pisses us off enough, we will opt of that too & no1 can do anything about it. As 4 anything Devs crowd say, who cares? Opinions are like arseholes, every1 has 1. Im only dealing in facts, not fantasy & what ifs like you.
borledx 8 months ago
@RichardElden So if they couldnt govern which was their objective. And on parallell course the IRA's strategy was to make it impossible to govern, the IRA were successful, the brits pulled out & there4 the IRA won the war. Accept it like a man, Brit lost. There be a united Ireland because Nats will outnumber unionists, thats an indisputable fact. They will simply then opt out of the UK & into the loving arms of Dub. All ur huffing & puffing & wishing it wasn;t so cant change any of that.
borledx 8 months ago
@RichardElden The EU controls nothing. We can default on that loan tomorrow & indeed r expected to around 2013. We can pull out of the EU tomorrow & no1 can anything about it. Like i said you understand about as much about economics as a chimp does algebra. Also the ROI has a GDP per captia about 8 times that of NI & thats in our worst economic crisis in living memory. If it wasnt 4 brit handouts, you'd be a 3rd world "country"
borledx 8 months ago
@RichardElden The free state army was 60,000 strong during the civil war, not 2 4getting the IRA who were still on the loose who drove the Brits from the ROI in the 1st place. U'd need more like 200,000 & then you'd have to hold, which you couldn't do in 700 yrs. Add the fact is that the brit govt hadnt the bottle 4 any of it anyway, hence the ROI. Cameroon has no say in the matter, NONE. If a vote opts out of the UK, its an internationally binding agreement that no Brit govt can go back on
borledx 8 months ago
@RichardElden 27 yrs, 37yrs, no matter, here we are an independent sovereign nation because the IRA won. Declaring the Rep was only a formality, with a diplomatic period of time b4 doing so. The irony is the Brit decision 2 pull out of NI has already been made & is irreversible, histroy repeating itself, LOL. And again what u think of the GFA is irrelevant, the fact is it exists & theres nothing u can do about, NOTHING.
P.S. Ur understanding of economics is similar 2 a chimps grasp of algebra
borledx 8 months ago
@RichardElden We didnt win anything, really? I dont live in the ROI so? Whow thats shocking news 2 me, LOL. Theres no we about my very dull friend. Ur govt has signed up to an internationally binding agreement that says when the maj of people wish 2 opt of the union, they can. Add that to the fact, that 4 a mathamathical certainty, Nats will outnumber unionists shortly & its bye bye NI. U hav no say in the matter, NONE. As 4 the IMF, i'll giv u 1 word DEFAULT, its almost a certainty
borledx 8 months ago
@RichardElden Oh a feeble attempt at trolling is it? I believe the croke park massacre was preceded by the execution of 12 Brit secret agents no? Also if my memory serves me right, we won that war & sent ye packing, LOL. As for the troubles in NI, the provos killed approx 7 members of the SF's for every 1 IRA killed. And what was the end result, your Govt signed an agreement that practically gaurantees an end to the british prescence in NI within decades. U'll have 2 try a little harder son
borledx 8 months ago
@RichardElden What was great???
borledx 8 months ago
Greer is an idiot, clearly knows nothing about Ireland.
Dagda1981 9 months ago
Poor Old Ireland.
TerrySleeper 9 months ago
he doesn't mention the fact they supported the B specials in the 70's and 80's, where they had the power to enter your home in northern ireland and drag you out and beat you in the street for no reason what so ever!!!! this is only a touch of the treatment of the catholics of northern ireland!!
DerryPup 10 months ago
jim allister is an orange bastard!!!! IRA are freedom fighters not fucking terrorists!!!!
DerryPup 10 months ago
@borledx
WTF? How does this answer ANY of my points?
The fact that "you've never lived in Ulster, you didn't experience the Troubles 1st hand" make your "opinion" here vacuous! The fact that you don't get to VOTE on NI matters, (so much for it being YOUR country, eh?) makes you an irrelevance! Simples!
Your "Pick & mix" politics, come from your support of the IRA when it suits you but criticism of them & their followers when it doesn't!
Rep'ism is like the Taliban, blind FAITH, not reason!
DonegalRaymie201 10 months ago
@DonegalRaymie201 I dont get a vote in NI because Brit military power says I dont, no other reason. Thats the whole point of Republicanism, to change that situation. Reps opinions matters because they make them matter. If people dont listen, Reps make them listen. They cannot & will not be ignored. Force of will is all thats really relevant in this world, i thought u'd know that much. That I criticise Reps when I dont agree wit them is ample proof that I display anything but blind faith
borledx 10 months ago
@borledx
And the award for the Most Utter Shite talked in 24hours goes to....Borledx!
You don't get a vote on NI matters, BECAUSE YOU DON'T FUCKIN' LIVE THERE!!! Political decisions that are made there, do NOT affect you: You are NOT a constituent, get it??? You're totally, fuckin' irrelevant to ANYTHING in NI, unless you plan on moving there, and there's FA chance of that, not with all them Nasty Prods about, eh?
You just trot out the same auld tired slogans, because you have no argument!!
DonegalRaymie201 10 months ago 4
@DonegalRaymie201 What do i need to explain to you what republicanism is exactly? FFS, your not that thick are you. No Republican excepts the existence of the border. So what happens in NI according to your logic happens in the north of Ireland according to mine. Ireland is my country so everything that happens here concerns me, whether its Dublin or Belfast or kerry or outside my front door. Im not `1 bit frightened of those "nasty prods", I live where i choose in my country
borledx 10 months ago
@borledx
Oh, I know too well what Rep'ism is: It's a deep seated Prejudice, that the geographical island of Ireland MUST be Politically united, whether the Peoples of said land mass want to unite or not; (& to hell with Democracy or self determination!)
"No Republican excepts the existence of the border"? See, that's why you're politically irrelevant, because whether you "except" it or not, it EXISTS!!! That's the Reality & politics is the Art of the Possible, not Fantasy Land where u dwell!
DonegalRaymie201 10 months ago
@DonegalRaymie201 Yes the border exists. Thats what all hubub is about u silly little man. Must I explain everything to u as if your a child. Reps are far from politcially irrelevant. The largest Nat party in NI is Rep (the PIRA in suits if you dont mind). Not 2 mention that they trebled their seats in ROI this time round. The skys the limit my good man. & if it turns out politics is failing, younger Reps will take up the gun again. Love/hate them, their anything but irrelevant
borledx 10 months ago
@borledx
"Yes the border exists" & "No Republican excepts the existence of the border"!!!
You're "position" is a mess of contradictions & pure self-deceit; you constantly confuse the objective Reality of what is, with what "ought" (in your view) to be!
You've swallowed hook, line & sinker the treasured duality of Catholicism, in simultaneously believing 2 contradictory statements, (These is 1 God, the Godhead is 3!). It's exactly the self-deceit that Orwell termed "Double Think" in 1984!
DonegalRaymie201 10 months ago 3
@DonegalRaymie201 As 4 my contradictory statements, apply your puny intellect 2 those statements why dont u. Im tired of explaining things 2 u. Its like trying to teach a dog algebra. Just because something exists today doesn't mean it will tomorrow. 1 tactic to ensure that is 2 act like it doesn't exist & watch the barriers come down 1 x 1, year by year.
If u put a frog into a pot of boiling water, he'll jump out. But if u put him into cold water & slowly heat it, he'll boil to death
borledx 10 months ago
@borledx
FFS Moron, try reading: "simultaneously believing 2 contradictory statements"!! Do I need to explain these terms to you? WTF does "simultaneous" mean?
Both your contradictory statements are in the PRESENT TENSE Fuckwit, not temporally distinct! "Yes the border exists" & "No Republican excepts the existence of the border"!!
It's classic, Orwellian "Double Think", only you're too uneducated & unread to recognise it, whether you "except" it or not!
Those with a brain see thru' your crap!
DonegalRaymie201 10 months ago
@DonegalRaymie201 You dissappoint me so with your petty technicalities. The fact is you know exactly what I mean, so cut the crap please. So I can take it from your statement above, you admit that the Rep cause is a morally righteos cause, without the the violence of course???
borledx 10 months ago
@borledx
FFS, there's nothing "petty" about logical consistency! It's just that you & your minions have never bothered to worry about such things, because your entire "cause" is based on an unexamined, irrational prejudice!
There's NOTHING Morally righteous in the Rep' cause, because NO Moral Principle underpins it!
If you were truly committed to Democracy, or Freedom from Discrimination & Universal Suffrage, like Gandhi or MLK, THEN you'd have a cause! (But then you wouldn't be a Rep'!)
DonegalRaymie201 10 months ago
@DonegalRaymie201 BS of the highest order. U know well that Reps do not accept the borders right to exist, so stop with the juvenile word games. The moral principle of self-determination for all the people on this island without any foreign interference is what under-pins republicanism. And the only thing peaceful agitation in the North was about 2 get caths was ethnically cleansed. The PIRA was orginally formed as defensive org after the OIRA had failed 2 protect Nat areas from prod pograms
borledx 10 months ago
@borledx
You're an illogical, moronic child! You can't put up ANY kind of rational argument for your side, so you just rant & sloganize!
Whether you like or accept the Border's existence is irrelevant! It does, and it has since 1922. Your opinion about a matter of OBJECTIVE FACT, is as relevant as your belief as to whether Paris should be the Capital of France: it doesn't change it FFS!
And Self-determination means people have the right to opt out & go their own way, as NI did in '21...
DonegalRaymie201 10 months ago 2
@DonegalRaymie201 Silly child, everything can b changed if the will exists 2 change it & in the case of that plastic state u call NI, it can & will b changed. When u speak of the will of the people, u speak only of unionist will. The people of Tyrone or Fermanagh cerainly didn't want to b a part of it with Tyrone Co Council pledging its allegiance to the Dáil. Not 2 mention LG admitting the weak case 4 “forcing these two Co's against their will” Where was the self-determination there brains?
borledx 10 months ago
@borledx
Nonsense, only the future can be changed; the Past is immutable, yet you can't help but rant against it!
NI is no more or less "plastic" than the ROI, FFS! They were both created by the same Treaty, the 1 SF negotiated and ratified!
The Unionists (& the IPP), both opposed the Partition, but you like to omit this from your rants. SF and SF alone are responsible for Partition, but you're such a hypocrit you like to glide over this fact! SF NEVER had ANY mandate from ANYONE!
DonegalRaymie201 10 months ago
@DonegalRaymie201 How can the future b changed when it hasn't happened yet? Ur a bright boy alright, LOL. And the ROI wasn't created by the same treaty, the free state was created by the treaty & thats LONG GONE. All that remains is 2 tear down the NI part & we're on the pigs back.
The unionists orginally opposed partition but they certainly did not at the time of the treaty. In fact it was LG needing their votes in WM that cemented partition. Brit democracy in action, FFS u make me sick
borledx 10 months ago
@borledx
It's precisely BECAUSE the future hasn't happened, that it IS amenable ya brainless twat!
ANYTHING that has happened, is ipso facto IMMUTABLE, (best go look up these big words now!).
Christ, it's no wonder the modern Rep' has an IQ in the single digits: You haven't got a braincell or a degree to share between you!
Still waiting on this Rational case for modern Rep'ism & the Moral maxim on which it is based??? (Go on, give us a laugh then...)
DonegalRaymie201 10 months ago
@DonegalRaymie201 Now, now here's what u said "only the future can be changed". Meaning u can change what hasn't even happened yet. Of course I understand what you meant, but I know how you love that "logical consistency". We must have "logical consistency" after all, mustn't we?
The modern Rep is Gerry Adams who has genius levels of intelligence. More than u can ever dream of my naive silly little friend. & u aleady know what modern Rep is based on, the same thing it has always been.
borledx 10 months ago
@borledx
Brainless, your pish has NOTHING to do with logical consistency!
It's an ontological tautology, that the Future is amenable to actions in the Present, therefore, what we do in the Present "changes" the Future, changes that which has yet to happen! QED
And your pathetic attempts at avoidance get you nowhere:
What is the "Rational case for modern Rep'ism & the Moral maxim on which it is based??? (Go on, give us a laugh then...)
I've already given you a definition for starters...
DonegalRaymie201 10 months ago
@DonegalRaymie201 Yes the future is amenable to actions in the present but you still cant change what hasn't happened yet, you can only change your present circimstances. Changing th future is an accurate statement im afraid & we must correct these little inaccuracies so we have that all important "logical consistency"
BTW, Im not avoiding anything. Im just not playing your silly little game. You know what Rep is based on & so do I. If u have prob with any of it, speak up, otherwise shut up
borledx 10 months ago
@borledx
Brainless, your pathetic attempts at being smart, simply reveal your lack of education! Logical Consistency is adherence to the Law of Excluded Middle; maybe you can get your intellectual giant, Gerry Adams to explain that concept to you, (Christ ur in trouble!)
Rep'ism, HAS NO Rational basis, it rests on NO Political Philosophy! That's ur problem right there & why you can never put up a coherent case!
All u have is an unexamined "Gut feeling", that all Ireland must be forceably united
DonegalRaymie201 10 months ago
@DonegalRaymie201 The only only concept i need be concerned about in this case is that u cant change the future as it hasn't happened yet i.e. the statement is illogical. No amount of slithering will change that. Admit u chose your words wrongly & move on. Fight ur massively inflated ego, id bet it does u no favours.
As 4 forcibly reuniting the country, i dont think its necessary or indeed moral anymore. 69 was different as caths had been backed into a corner but now theres other means
borledx 10 months ago
@borledx
Moron, you CAN change the future PRECISELY BECAUSE it has not yet happened! If it had happened, it would be, by definition HISTORY, and therefore unalterable! Is there not a grown-up there who can explain these difficult ideas to you?
"As 4 forcibly reuniting the country, i dont think its necessary or indeed moral ANYMORE."???
Another admission that you think it WAS Moral, to force People into a Union they did not want!! Christ you're not the sharpest tool in the box boyo!
DonegalRaymie201 10 months ago
@DonegalRaymie201 Your clearly a unionist fanatic. I hav been corresponding with u on & off 4 ages & ur locked into a unionist mindset. When u talk of pple, u only refer 2 unionists who r the minority in Ireland. If the nats in the 6 Co's were forced into the union, then it is legitmate to use force 2 resist, especially since they enforced that union with an apartheid state & crushed peaceful resistance. There4 the only option left was force & in stepped de brave PIRA, God Bess them
borledx 10 months ago
@borledx
Ah, I hear the sound of the dummy being spat!
It's not my fault, you lack the intelligence for rational debate and your pathetic attempts at cleverness simply reveal your idiocy, like above!
Like all Rep's you lack basic intellect & more often than not, education, hence why your support derives from the bottom 10% of society!
Once again moron, NI chose to remain in the Union in 1922: They simply didn't secede!
And if PIRA were justified, then so were the Loyalist by the same measure!
DonegalRaymie201 10 months ago
@DonegalRaymie201 Nonense from a fool. The NI parliment choose to remain part of the union, which was of course complely & utterly dominated by unionist politicains, How could it not b when it was an arbritary line cut across Ireland to ensure a unionist maj. Of course the Nats in Ferm & tyrone, who were in the maj never got a say but u always convienently leave that out.
AS for my education, I have a degree in Bus/Marketing, although I struggle to remember the module we did on the "troubles"
borledx 10 months ago
@borledx
Told you MANY times, that the Unionists gained 25 of 37 seats across the WHOLE of Ulster in 1918! And they were fucking Unionists, so they stood on a Unionist platform FFS: They were completely opposed to Partition, and if it had to happen, then they wanted ALL Ulster. Carson saw 1921 as a disaster, and moved to England soon after.
And given that 25.6% of people voted for Unionists, 46.6% SF: How many counties should the Unionists have retained? (The 26% who voted IPP got nothing!)
DonegalRaymie201 10 months ago
@DonegalRaymie201 Revisionism at its finest, you'd make a great Brit. There was 105 seats in 1918 general election in Ireland. SF won 73 of them giving them an overwhelming majority in the country. And they fought the elction on the platform of complete seperation from Britain. Therefore the vast majority of people wanted speration from Britain. U can twist & turn anyway you want, but unionists were a minority then & they are 1 today. No amount of your BS can ever change that fact.
borledx 10 months ago
@borledx
Brainless, it was a UK GENERAL ELECTION, not a Referendum on Independence!
Even still: "Therefore the vast majority of people wanted speration from Britain"!!! Since when is 46% of votes a vast majority?? In what mathematical system does that ANY KIND OF MAJORITY make?
Not only do you have zero concept of Logic & reason, but you have your own Non-Aligned Maths too!
SF nowhere even mentioned starting a war they had no mandate for!
DonegalRaymie201 10 months ago
@DonegalRaymie201 Yes & in that UK general election over 75% of the seats in Ireland went to a seccessionist party who made clear that they intended not to take their seats in WM. In any demcracy goobally, they had the mandate 2 go their our way peacefully. But John Bull wouldn't agree 2 that & moved the goalposts. Unionists had a minority of seats & at best they should have been an opposition party. But of course LG. needed there votes in WM to keep himself in power: shame on him
borledx 10 months ago
@borledx
FFS Ireland then was a part of the UK, not a separate electorate! They were elected WITHIN the remit of the Westminster parliament, nothing else!
"In any demcracy goobally, they had the mandate 2 go their our way peacefully." That's illiterate, crass bullshit!
In ANY Democratic System, a PLEBISCITE is required for ANY CONSTITUTIONAL CHANGE! And what is a bigger CONSTITUTIONAL change than Secession?
A General Election is NOT a PLEBISCITE Moron, no matter how much you want it to be!
DonegalRaymie201 10 months ago
@DonegalRaymie201 Ireland was part of the UK by forceful means & in any civilised society, this is totally unaccpetable. 2nd, Brit does not have a constitution so the only way the poeple of Ireland could make their intentions loud & clear that they did not want to be pat of the union, was 2 vote on a secesionist platform, which overwhelming did. What the minority unionists thought is an irrelavance as they were a minority & as such are bound by the majority decision in a democracy.
borledx 10 months ago
@borledx
UTTER FUCKING BULL! The UK DOES have a CONSTITUTION & has had since Cromwell asserted the Primacy of Parliament in 1649! They are just about to vote on changing the Electoral System too, by guess what, A REFERENDUM!
ALL Constitutional change requires a Single issue Direct Vote by the People, and 46% is not even a fuckin' Majority anyway, even if it were a Referendum, (which it wasn't!)
According to your "logic" if SNP win most seats in May, (very possible), then Scot is Independent???
DonegalRaymie201 10 months ago
@DonegalRaymie201 Since the Eng Civil War, the bedrock of the Brit constitution has trad been the doctrine of parliamentary sovereignty, according 2 which the statutes passed by Parliament r the UK's supreme and final source of law. It follows that WM can change the constitution simply by passing new Acts. In other words. the Uk has no consistittion which requires the consent of people. e.g. the vast maj of brit people wanted no part in the Iraqi conflict but were simply overuled by the Govt
borledx 10 months ago
@borledx
Brainless, IRAQ was an unpopular government decision, not a change in the Constitutional Nature of the UK!
The UK can't even change it's Electoral System without a Plebiscite FFS! And I could try & explain the separation of the Legislature from Parliament, and other such distinctions, but frankly it's way beyond your level!
I see you can't grasp the example of SNP winning a majority of seats, but that not making Scot Independent??
Yeah, thought as much...
DonegalRaymie201 10 months ago
@DonegalRaymie201 If the SNP win the maj of seats, it would then b feasable 4 them 2 call a referendum 4 full independence. Its as simple as that. That oppurtunity didn't apply in 1918 election in Ireland as the british refused to even consider the matter. Therefore the only option was armed insurrection & if I dont say so myself, that insurrection achieved 80% of its ideals but with John Bull firmly kicked out on his arse. I'd expect the othjer 20% to follow shotly, regardless of ur opinion
borledx 10 months ago
@borledx
"the only option was armed insurrection"!
Pure & utter Provo Republican Bullshit Propoganda, as always! SF could EASILY have called for a Referendum after the 1918 Election, but they couldn't be sure to win it, as they failed to gain a Majority share of the votes!
"John Bull firmly kicked out on his arse." You're having a laugh! The LG didn't even use the Brit Army to quell the insurection, yet Collins admitted his IRA were days from defeat, (when he signed the Treaty for SF!)
Get real
DonegalRaymie201 10 months ago
@DonegalRaymie201 It may come as agreat shock to you, but collins wasn't the IRA, he was simply a member. The vast majority of IRA volunteers felt that they could have continued the war indefinitly. We'll never know if thats true now. Anyway im sure Collins would have said anything to defend his position after signing the treaty. Furthermore, correct me if im wrong but the brits never agreed to a referendum even in principle as they felt(wrongly) that ireland was an integral part of the UK
borledx 10 months ago
@borledx
What a feckin Liar! "he was simply a member."?? Collins was the LEADER of the IRA, and if anyone knew how close to defeat they were, it was him!
SF never campaigned for a Referendum on Independence, they never even raised the issue in Westminster! Because, like I say, they knew they would lose a simple Referendum, as they didn't command a Majority of the Popular Vote, so they wouldn't risk it!
They simply set up their own Dail & then the insurrection that followed!
Simples..
DonegalRaymie201 10 months ago
@DonegalRaymie201 Furthermore: Brit Legal scholars argue that de uncodified nature of the UK constitution means that the lack of an effective separation of powers & the fact that parliamentary sovereignty allows Parliament to overrule fundamental rights makes it to some extent a "FACADE" constitution. Unfortualy 4 u, the actual % polled by SF is irrelevat, the amount of seats they won is what counts & they won 75% of the seats, giving them a clear mandate to secede, minority unionists be damned
borledx 10 months ago
@borledx
Buy a feckin' dictionary moron, then look up the word "Mandate"!
You are clueless about Politics & democratic jurisprudence.
DonegalRaymie201 10 months ago
@DonegalRaymie201 definition mandate "A command r an authorization given by a political electorate to its representatives" In this case the occupying Brit mllitary who were quiet clearly under a 2 mandate pull out of Ireland as was the wish of the vast majority of the people Ireland. U cant argue with 3/4 of the seats going to a Rep party, no matter how u try to slither & change the subject. Get it true ur head, unionists have always been a minority & now that minority is shrinking ever year
borledx 10 months ago
@borledx
Fuckwit, the MAJORITY voted for either IPP or IUP parties, so SF had no Mandate, because they had NO Majority share of the vote!!! AND it was a UK General Election, not a Referendum, which SF DIDN'T Call because they were afraid they wouldn't win it!
It's not rocket science, except to you!
You're just too fuckin' thick to appreciate the paucity of your own argument: it's laughable to grown ups!
DonegalRaymie201 10 months ago
@DonegalRaymie201 3/4 of the seats is a majority vote know matter what way you look at it & is more than enough to form a majority Govt. Not ot metion the fact that they fought election on the platform of complete seperation from Britain. As for the IPP, your attempts at linking them with unionist are laughable, considering they fought on a platform of all-ireland home rule. partition wasn't even on the cards by the vast majority of the irish people, except of course the minority unionist pop
borledx 10 months ago
@borledx
1st both IPP & Unionists REFUSED to recognise the SF Dail, and instead took up their Westminster seats! Neither Party was Secessionist either!
2nd, a MAJORITY Vote requires, (wait for it...), a MAJORITY of the Popular Vote!!! 46% is not a MAJORITY, except in Rep' maths!
A Party could win 100% of seats in a 1st Past the Post Election, yet FAIL to win a MAJORITY of the Popular Vote. Do ask an adult!
3rd, CONSTITUTIONAL change requires a Plebiscite & SF never EVER had 1!
Basic facts!
DonegalRaymie201 10 months ago 2
@DonegalRaymie201 Collins wasn't the leader of anything u clown, he was director of intelligence IN THE ira & finance minister on the civilian side of things. The local units around the country acted more or less independently & most wanted no part of the treaty especailly the Munster units. 3/4 of the seats went to SF & thats all there is to it, despite your squiming & throwing your toys out of the pram. NO plebiscite was required, the feeling of the people was load & clear, BRITS OUT
borledx 10 months ago
Respond to this video...And 'i'll say it again Tyrone & Fermanagh never wanted to be part of an apartheid orange state & were forced in to it anyway & suffered greatly through the years so LG & co could hold on to their precious majority in WM.
borledx 10 months ago
@DonegalRaymie201 And you still havn't adressed the reason why nationalists in Tyrone & Fermanagh were forced into the orange apartheid state against their will???? Being the great democrat you are, id imagine that question poses some problems for your warped logic. So you choose to ignore it,
borledx 10 months ago
@borledx
FFS, APARTHEID was a system of RACIAL segregation & RACIAL superiority, ENSHRINED in LAW! The people of South Africa, were classed at birth as BANTU, COLOUREDS, INDIANS, WHITE BRITISH/IRISH, WHITE AFRIKAANS, and LAWS defined their place in society!
Bantu Blacks had almost NO rights, NO vote, could not have ANY sexual relations with WHITES, or be guilty of Statutory Rape!
Where the fuck are the parallels? You know FA about APARTHEID, & your idiotic use of the word demeans black folk!
DonegalRaymie201 10 months ago
@DonegalRaymie201 Was there not racial segregation in the North until the provos put a stop to it?
Gerrymandering districts meant 4 all intents & purposes, most RC's had no vote.
Mass institionalised housing & education discrimation
25% unemployment in Nat areas compared to 5% in prod areas
Last but no least the B-specials to keep an uppity "taigs in their place"
Grow up will you
borledx 10 months ago
@borledx
No & NO! Provos put a stop to Fuck ALL!
Look up the word "racial" moron! In SA, they put a pen in your hair to see if it would stick! THAT determined how BLACK you were, and what rights you might get! Everyone got a vote in the UK, regardless of race or religion, just like here believe it or not!
Where were the Laws of this Apartheid in NI then? Where are the parallels?
There is no fuckin' comparison, and you demean the People who lived thru' REAL APARTHEID, ya prick!
DonegalRaymie201 10 months ago
@DonegalRaymie201Quote "Caths are out to destroy Ulster. If we in Ulster allow RC's to work on our farms we are traitors to Ulster...I would appeal to loyalists, therefore, wherever possible, to employ good Prods only"
Northern PM Sir basil Brooke. Can you imagine if any southern politician every made such remarks, he would be finished in every way, yet amoung Northern prods he was a hero. Thats the differeence between us & them
borledx 10 months ago
@borledx
One bigots opinion! There were No Laws made to enforce any such discimination however, unlike our own De valera who introduced LAW that discriminated against Prods or any Non-catholics in point of fact!
And here's more for you ya hypocrit: "In 1943 Oliver J. Flanagan (FG), a Dáil (lower chamber) member, aroused little protest when he proposed to the house to 'rout the Jews out of this country'."
DonegalRaymie201 10 months ago
@DonegalRaymie20 Any sympathy i may have had for the Jews has long dissapeared considering their bestial behaviour in Palestine. They broke every UN resolution since 1948 whilst all the time ethnically cleansing arabs & continuing with their illegal settlemets in the west bank. etc. Only getting away with it because of their friendship with america. Any other country behaving similarly would face the severest of consequences from the international community & rigthly so
borledx 10 months ago
@borledx
Ahh Poor, braindead, bigotted Borledx!
"Any sympathy i may have had for the Jews..."
You mean ISRAELIS, possibly even Zionists, but to tar ALL JEWS, (many of whom oppose Israel's existence!), because of the behaviour of those in just Israel, mark you out for the BIGOTTED, PREJUDICED, PRICK I've long known you to be!
It's EXACTLY the same as hating all CATHOLICS because of the Genocide committed in Crotia during WW2
by the RC Church there!!!
But you're too thick to see it!
Ta much...
DonegalRaymie201 10 months ago 3
@DonegalRaymie201 The vast majority of jews consider themselves loyal to Israel 1st & the land of their birth 2nd. Therefore they are equally to blame. They have acted little better than savages since the inception of israel & I for 1 who hope they get exacly whats coming to them. BY their behaviour to day & from my personal experience with them, Im not 1 bit suprised that they have been universly hated in every country they have ever infested.
borledx 10 months ago
@borledx
Look you arrogant, bigot & anti-semite, you don't SPEAK for "The vast majority of jews", you don't speak for the vast majority of ANYONE!
Only Zionists believe in modern Israel, & they are but 1 part of the Judaic Pantheon. Many Jews accept that the Jewish Diaspara was Yahweh's will, and therefore Modern Israel is counter to God's judgement!
"universly hated in every country they have ever infested."? Spoken like Charles Bewley himself, and proof that the ROI was Anti Non-RC...
DonegalRaymie201 10 months ago
@DonegalRaymie201 & yes i am an anti-semite if that means i hate the Israelis. As bad as the "final solution" was, i cant help but feel the Nazis should hav finished the job. There animal behaviour towards the arabs may yet bring about the destruction of humanity. International law means nothing to them & they act with impunity with US backing. The day the US withdraws that support will b the end 4 them, the sooner the better. A nice pogrom in limerick fixed their wagon here back in the day
borledx 10 months ago
@borledx
You know, there is 1 thing I do love about you Provo worshipping Morons: You are SOOO consistently predictable! Give you enough rope & you always hang yourselves, often repeatedly!
"bad as the "final solution" was, i cant help but feel the Nazis should hav finished the job"!
There's not really much to add to that: It says all that anyone needs to know about your ilk & why, like I've told you before, you're an irrelevance to grown-ups.
DonegalRaymie201 10 months ago 5
@DonegalRaymie201 Blah, blah, the fact remains that the israelis r a major cause of most of the conflict in the world today, directly & indirectly. They completly ignore international law, constantly expanding illegal settlements in occupied territories & ethnically cleansing palestinians at will. They've killed more palestinians civilians this year than the IRA did in 30 years. Their a stain on humanity & I for 1 will be happy bunny when they get their just dues, the sooner the better
borledx 10 months ago
@borledx
HARK, What is that I hear? Is that the sound of another Wannabe Provo, "Goose Stepping" around his bedroom & raving against DAS JUDEN, & pining for Mein Fuhrer???
You know, I thought OZ was a bit OTT in his association of Rep'ism & Nazism, but it seems it was me that was unduly lenient on you! Sure enough, you simply aren't that fusy about who you focus your HATE on: Brits, Prods, Jews, Morris Dancers...
I admit it OZ, I stand corrected!
DonegalRaymie201 10 months ago 4
@DonegalRaymie201 Never said i hated the jews. Y dont u actually read wat i said. I do despise the israelis & find it ironic that u hate Reps when the israelis do more damage in 1 year than the IRA did in 30. Its plain 2 see that your empathy extends only 2 unionists & no1 else. Ur a hypocrite plain & simple. BTW, I dont hate de brits. On a personal level i quite like them but I dont want any part of Ireland ruled by them, because unlike u im not a west brit arse licker, but a proud gael
borledx 10 months ago
DonegalRaymie201 9 months ago 3
@DonegalRaymie201 Fair enough, loath away, your opinions r abhorrent 2 me as well. I'd put u in a hole in the ground if i got the chance. That still doesn't explain ur love 4 your ulster "brethern" who promise 2 leave NI a burnt shell & committ genocide if ireland is ever united democratically. Your a hypocrite plain & simple. I believe the prods have a word for you, "lundy", i think they call it.
BTW, i dont hate jews because there jewish, what i despise is the near nazi state of israel
borledx 9 months ago
@borledx
Christ Allmighty! You morons have been lying to yourselves so long, you don't even know when you're lying to others!
It's your Lies & lack of Integrity I despise! I may not agree with everything Paisley & the DUP stand for, but I can at least trust them to be honest! Something Rep's have never been..
And if you only hate jews because of Israel, then "nice pogrom in limerick fixed their wagon here back in the day", when Israel didn't even exist??? Makes you a Liar & moron yet again!!!
DonegalRaymie201 9 months ago
@DonegalRaymie201 Yes the DUP would never lie, LOL. I must have heard Ian paisley say 100 times in interviews how he has no problems with RC's & regularly helps his RC constituents. Kind of makes a mockery of his famous public rants on the evils of papishness & RC's. No1 person can b blamed 4 the troubles, but if i has 2 pick 1 I'd pick paisley. THe GFA was a "sellout" 2 Ulster, until of course the DUP were the largest unionist party, now their as thick as thieves with SF, FFS ur some clown
borledx 9 months ago
@borledx
Are you retarded? Yes of course Paisley rants against the RC Church and the perniciousness of Catholicism, he is a Presbyterian Minister after all, and is following DIRECTLY in the Tradition of Calvin & Knox! John Knox made even stronger condemnations of the corruption of Christianity, (as he saw it), by Rome 400 odd years ago, and HE WAS A CATHOLIC PRIEST!
But that is not the same as hating individual catholics: 1 can "love the sinner, but hate the sin"!
Paisley is no liar!
DonegalRaymie201 9 months ago
@DonegalRaymie201 Paisley hated RC's full stop & was the 1 man most responsible 4 the troubles. He brought down the moderate O'Neil Govt 4 makin concessions 2 RC's that wud hav satisfied the maj of RC's & prevented the outbreak of the troubles with firey speeches about "papish" conspiricies & radiclised de prod pop. He played a key role in destroying Sunningdale which didnt even include Reps & again opposed de anglo-irish agreement which again sidelined Reps. Hes a moral coward & a hypocrite
borledx 9 months ago
@borledx
You know sweet FA about Paisley's likes & dislikes, so don't talk shite!
He "hates" Catholicism at a Doctrinal, theological level, because he sees RCism as a Corruption of Christ's message, but he's hardly the 1st person to articulate those criticisms: That's Historic Protestantism! Paisley is only repeating what Knox preached & wrote, & Knox was a RC Priest FFS!
Like it or not, Paisley never killed or tortured anyone (except from the pulpit maybe!), and ALWAYS condemned Violence!
DonegalRaymie201 9 months ago
@DonegalRaymie201 We're not talkin bout de history of de reformation so spare me. Im talkin about paisleys role in not only precipitating the troubles with his rabble rousing. But also his venement opposition 2 every effort made 2 appease moderate Nats which wud sideling Reps & cut de legs from under de IRA
Paisley is a moral coward, frightened of damnation if he kills personally, but he consistenly enroused passions 2 the point where he knew violence wud b inevitable. He thinks he can fool GOd
borledx 9 months ago
@borledx
No because you haven't the foggiest about the Reformation or you'd grasp the Tradition in which Paisley is speaking! You claimed he personally hates Catholics, yet can't contribute a shred of evidence to that effect!
"Paisley is a moral coward, frightened of damnation if he kills personally"?? THAT Fuckwit, makes him a Christian!
And for all you might hate him, Paisley is on record many times condemning both Rep' & Loyalist Violence. And for that I have to respect him!
DonegalRaymie201 9 months ago
@DonegalRaymie201 My evidence is that everytime during the conflict that a deal that wud have satisfied moderate RC's was being done, whilst at the same time sidelining Reps, who he claimed as his enemies, Paisley was at the 4front of destroying any hope of an agreement.
He might hav fooled u, but he wont have fooled God. His rheotoric was consciously aimed at inciting prods 2 violence & he then stood back from it. So yes hes a moral coward inciting others 2 violence he wudn't do himself
borledx 9 months ago
@borledx
Brainless, that's not evidence, that's OPINION! And opinion based on FA knowledge too!
And claiming to speak for God now? There's nothing to which you will not stoop ya arrogant piece of shite!
DonegalRaymie201 9 months ago
@DonegalRaymie201 Its not opinion when its historical fact & part of the public record. Paisley opposed granting any civil rights to RCs, he opposed Sunningdale, Anglo-irish agreement. No1 can deny he was a loyalist icon & played a key role in destroying all these attempts at concessions 2 moderate RCs. In fact, the success of any of the above wud hav hurt Rep paras, perhaps destroyed them? I dont claim 2 speak 4 God but i do know dat if he exists, he knew Ians real vile intentions/meanings
borledx 9 months ago
@borledx
"Paisley opposed granting any civil rights to RCs"?? WTF, are you having yet more Brain Farts?
What UK Laws exactly, discriminated against RCs then??? What "civil rights" did RCs not have that other religions enjoyed, do tell?
I'm still waiting for a scrap of evidence that Paisley ever condoned Violence, in any way! Care to quote him then...
DonegalRaymie201 9 months ago
@DonegalRaymie201 Im still waiting 4 a scrap of proof G.Adams was in the IRA. The civil rights movement was a papish conspiracy, is that it?? They had legitimate grievances & Paisley opposed any & all attempts at addressing those grievances. Pograms & riots coincided with paisleys speeches regularly. Do u think he's stupid? Do u think he didnt realise his words would cause prods to react violently against RCs? He's "3rd force" committed violence, which he convienently denied knowledge of
borledx 9 months ago
@borledx BTW, I notice you gave up your defence of that great "Christian" "Ian Paisley" who was pacifist in the mode of ghandi according to you, LOL
borledx 9 months ago
@borledx
Given up fuck all prick! You just can't produce a single speech or article that shows Paisley EVER condoned violence at all! Just like you can't point to a SINGLE UK LAW that discriminated against RCs or describe what Civil Rights were witheld!
Blacks in the US had legitimate discrimination, enscribed in legal statute against them before 1964! No such legal discrimination existed in the UK!
THAT's the difference fuckwit!
DonegalRaymie201 9 months ago
@DonegalRaymie201 SO there was no legitimate civil rights movement in NI? It was all a papish plot? Is that what your saying? The 100,000s of people were making up all their grievances prodded on by the IRA & the pope? And the faminine was self-inflicted even though Brit landlords owned 95% arable land & sold the food 2 Eng? And because a few Brit arse licking Irish in Dub did well, it was OK the population was exterminated. Enough now, im finished, ur beneath me wit ur stupidity, Goodbye
borledx 9 months ago
@borledx
Fuckin' Brilliant! Every time I ask a Provo wannabe to back up their ASSERTIONS with some actual EVIDENCE, they do exactly this: Spit the dummy, grab the ball & declare "It's my ball and I'm no playin' anymore!"
It's feckin' priceless!
No evidence, no rational argument, just Provo slogans & rants which if you fail to swallow & dare to question. make you an INFIDEL to the Rep' TALIBAN!
No wonder the Indians in NI are Unionists, they know dogmatic BS when they see it!
Sound familiar Oz?
DonegalRaymie201 9 months ago
@DonegalRaymie201 I've come to realise that rational argument isn't your strong point. YOu have some other agenda, maybe you have some issues r whatever. I should have known by the way your comments always seem to get the thumbs up on every page & some of the nonense you come out with, you wouldnt hear from Johnny Adair. Either way, Im not playing anymore. Go & find some other unbalanced person to play with. Theres plenty around on YT, Toodle doo
borledx 9 months ago
@borledx
Well it's been strong enough to run rings around you for months!
My "agenda" remains to expose the sheer, blatant hypocrisy and intellectual vacuum that modern Rep'ism has descended into! I have yet to encounter a single Rep' on here, with a shred of honesty, let alone integrity: your "support" really does come from the gutter; the bottom 10% in every sense & human facet!
I know, I've been blocked from many Rep' sites for even QUESTIONING the BS!
You really are the Irish Taliban!
DonegalRaymie201 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@DonegalRaymie201 Make sure & use your multiple accounts to give yourself the thumbs up & be the top rated comment with that insight. You sad little person.
borledx 9 months ago
@DonegalRaymie201 BTW, MY opinions on Israel are in know way related to my feelings on the british prescence in the North of Ireland
borledx 10 months ago
@borledx
That's funny, I live about as far North as it's possible to be on this island & the only British prescence I see, is that of the VERY welcome British tourists!
You know fuckwit, you could take your anti-Brit propoganda around every business in Letterkenny, and I'd stake good money, that 98% of them would "run you oot the door wi' yer tail a'tween yer legs"!
Nobody has time for your childish, spiteful crap, especially when you live this close to the People you defame! Wake up moron.
DonegalRaymie201 10 months ago
@DonegalRaymie201 And if you need any more proof of the apartheid nature of the Ornage state, here is a quote by South African apartheid Prime Minster Johannes Verster
"who told critics of his own emergency legislation that he would gladly exchange it for the Northern Ireland Special Powers Act (Bell 1993, p. 45).
borledx 10 months ago
@borledx
This proves nothing at all! It is not EMERGENCY POWERS that introduced Apartheid, it was Ordinary, Peace-time laws of enforced Legal Segregation, and Racial Classification!
Christ I'm tired educating your paultry excuse for learning and cretinous vocabulary! Stick to the wee words that you know the meaning of, because you'll just embarass yourself again like 3days ago!
DonegalRaymie201 10 months ago
@borledx
Nationalists in Tyrone & Fermanagh stayed in the UK as part of NI, just as Unionists & IPP voters were dragged into the Freestate that they never voted for!!!
And all because your hypocritical SF started a war without Mandate, and then SF, & SF alone passed the Treaty of Partion to save face on the eve of defeat, (according to Collins)!!
And it really shows the Utter POVERTY of your "case" that in 2011, the ONLY Election you can even grasp at, is a 1918 UK GENERAL ELECTION FFS!
DonegalRaymie201 10 months ago
@borledx
And "Ireland" is a geographical landmass, the second largest island in the british Isles archipeligo. That's it!
It is not a Nation State & it never has been in its' entire history! The ROI is a nation state that dates from the 1949. Its' predecessor was Eire & before that the Irish Freestate!
NI is a devolved province of the UK. That's the reality here, & no amount of your bullshit propoganda change the FACTS 1 iota!
Told you before, you need to look up "Apartheid" in the dictionary!
DonegalRaymie201 10 months ago
@DonegalRaymie201 Actually if we only take the Brit occupation of ireland, it was administered as 1 country. They only insisted on partition in the treaty because they were pandering to the unionists whos votes they needed for their coalition at the time. & im quite sure if u live long enough u will see your precious union ened once & for all in this country.
Defintion: Derived from the Afrikaans word for "apartness" The condition of being separated from others; segregation
borledx 10 months ago
@borledx
FFS eejit, Ireland THEN was entirely in the UK, with Irish MPs & even PMs!
"It is not a Nation State & it never has been in its' entire history!"
You really struggle with reading don't you?
It was YOUR SF that negotiated then ratified the Treaty in 1921! The IPP & Unionists OPPOSED it, but with that legendary SELF-DECEIT of Rep'ism, you always ignore this feckin fact: That Partition was your doing! The MPs in the North wanted to remain in the Parliament to which they were ELECTED!
DonegalRaymie201 10 months ago
@DonegalRaymie201 My apolgies, you can replace "accurate" above with inaccurate
borledx 10 months ago
@DonegalRaymie201 BTW, it was fools like you whinging about "violence is counter productive" back in 1919 as well & talking about the law. If we listened to you & the great "majority", we'd still be part of the UK now.
borledx 10 months ago
@borledx
Utter bullshit! Did India, Australia, Canada etc need violence to achieve Independence? No!
And if NI, Wales or Scotland, want to secede from the Union, then they just have to vote for it! Simples...
DonegalRaymie201 10 months ago
@DonegalRaymie201 Well the likes you always existed unfortunately. Ready to sit around & wait for the superior English to grant you your freedom, but others weren't. Thats why you live in Republic today. With all its faults, its leaders are still ultimately responsible to you. Thats something the English never were & never could be. As for the othe constituents of the UK, Eng has messed them up so much, they dont what they are anymore. There all living on the crowns tit & know nothing else
borledx 10 months ago
@borledx
No idiot, that's why we live on a Divided Island, because your beloved SF started a War they couldn't win & had no Mandate for! And then on the eve of defeat, (according to Collins), SF passed the Partition Treaty to save face, pure & simple!
Told you before, Mandela, Gandhi & Luther King achieved FAR more without EVER sullying their hands with violence, and in doing so, NEVER betrayed the Moral Rightness of their position.
But of course, that requires you to outside yer own midden!
DonegalRaymie201 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@borledx
WTF? How is this an answer to ANY of my points?
The fact that "you've never lived in Ulster, you didn't experience the Troubles 1st hand" make your "opinion" here vacuous! The fact that you don't get to VOTE on NI matters, (so much for it being YOUR country, eh?) makes you an irrelevance! Simples!
Your "Pick & mix" politics, come from your support of the IRA when it suits you but criticism of them & their followers when it doesn't!
Rep'ism is like the Taliban, blind FAITH, not reason!
DonegalRaymie201 10 months ago
@borledx Fuckin' Google it ya prick, I think it was during the Eucharistic Congress in 1932 or whenever, point is, it's a FACT. As for 2 of 5 presidents being nominal Protestants, that was only because they were big knobs with plenty of dough to back 'em up, not ordinary working men. + they were prepared to kiss the feet of republican hierachy (or a Bishop's ring?!) Do you know where Fotherd is? Go and look it up!
oz1641 10 months ago
@oz1641 As i said, saying somethings true doesn't make it so. You "think" doesn't cut it. I can find no record that Dev ever said any such thing. Also you unwittingly hit on 1 of the reasons for the prods drop in pop. The "big knobs" married into each other & r still "big knobs" today. The poorer prods were more widely spread & socialised with the lower class caths & married into them. They were assimalated over time. There was no institutionalised discrimation r pogroms like the north
borledx 10 months ago
@borledx You cannot deny the institutionalised discrimination that took place. You must be the most deluded fool on YT if you think that Protestants were well treated by the gov. of the Free State. Btw why would intermarriage result in less Protestants unless there was some part of Roman Catholic theology that meant all children from such unions HAD to be raised as good wee RCs!?! Sounds a bit insecure from a body that calls itslef "the one true Church"?? Away to light the BBQ, catch ye later...
oz1641 10 months ago
@oz1641 I can & will deny it. I have lived here since I was born & can honestly say I have never seen any discrimination against protestants. Theres 2 reasons why the chldren were catholic. 1 is yes they would have been under pressure from the church but it wasn't law & people simply conformed. The other is that there was a glut of prod single women as many of the men had been killed in WW1. And of course at that time, the husbands word was law.
borledx 10 months ago
@borledx So you admit that the Church of Rome is chauvinistic & intolerant, well that's a start. Your denials count for nought, I personally know of at least a dozen families whose forefathers FLED the Free State in the 1920s because of indimidation, threats, boycotts (organised by RC priests) and institutional discrimination. Wher those people just being paranoid?? Btw, do you even know any Protestants?!
oz1641 10 months ago
@oz1641 Yes the Church is chauvinistic & intolerant, u'll get no denials on that score from most people. But for the most part, caths bore the brunt of that. Prods were simply left alone as they weren't part of the "flock". Either way, the ROI has no truck with religion now & is fast moving towards being a secular state. Im sure the families were being paranoid e.g. 00s of prods fled in the aftermath of Brit withdrawal because of 1 incident in cork & yes i do know prods, proud Irishmen all
borledx 10 months ago
@borledx This is the same "ROI" that only recently legalised such things as divorce and homosexuality?! the same state that still has a "special relationship" with the "true church"?? You're full of shite & provo propaganda (same thing?)
oz1641 10 months ago
@oz1641 Have u actually spent much time in the "free state"? Because your bigoted nonense seems 2 suggest otherwise. Theres a mosque & prod church nearer to my house than a RC church. Not 2 mention the fact that homosexuality was only legalised in the 6 Co's when the Euro Court of human rights forced ye to do so. AS for the special relationship with the church, its only natural considering 90% of the pop was RC when the constitution was written-at same time guaranting freedom of religion
borledx 10 months ago
@oz1641 Contrast this with the great NI PM Sir Basil Brooke remarks 2 the orange order, "Many in this audience employ RC's, but I have not 1 about my place. Caths are out to destroy Ulster. If we in Ulster allow RC's to work on our farms we are traitors to Ulster...I would appeal to loyalists, therefore, wherever possible, to employ good Prods only"
If any ROI politician ever made sectarian remarks like this he would be finished politically & publicly shunned, thats the diff between us & ye
borledx 10 months ago
@oz1641 Contrast this with the great NI PM Sir Basil Brooke remarks 2 the orange order, "Many in this audience employ RC's, but I have not 1 about my place. Caths are out to destroy Ulster. If we in Ulster allow RC's to work on our farms we are traitors to Ulster...I would appeal to loyalists, therefore, wherever possible, to employ good Prods only"
If any ROI politician ever made sectarian remarks like this he would be finished politically & publicly shunned, thats the diff between us & ye
borledx 10 months ago
@borledx Have you got a stammer Lol? Are you seriously trying to say that the Free State is non-sectarian?! because if so you are a fuckin' fool. The 'RoI' was & still remains, a theocratic, sectarian & monocultural entity.
In 1920/21/22 Protestants, most of 'em poor farmers & artisans, were forced from their homes, sometimes at gunpoint. In the years that followed, Prods were treated like dirt. Ever heard of a place called Fethard on Sea??
oz1641 10 months ago
@oz1641 1 isloated incident in the bog in 1953(no violence involved & not state sanctioned), so fucking what? Is that the best u can come up wit? I notice u left out the part where the family was eventually reconciled. Contrast that with institutionilsed sectarianism in the 6 Co's, No votes, no jobs, no housing & no rights 4 caths & if they dared complained, god help them. I'll ask again, have u ever spent any time in the "free state"? I doubt it considering ur bigoted perceptions.
borledx 10 months ago
@borledx "No votes, no jobs, no housing & no rights" OK back up your assertion ya turdhead. Some Unionist controlled councils discriminated against RCs in some cases, just like Rep. controlled councils (like Newry) did against Prods. People, Protestant & RC couldn't vote unless they owned property, this was called the 'property qualification' and was exactly the same system used in England until the late 1940s & is PROVEN to have been no disadvantage to republicans. Many Rcs also had good jobs.
oz1641 10 months ago
@oz1641 i dont make any statment i cant back up unlike u. No votes example: Derry city which had a large Nat majority but a unionist council because of gerrymandering. There4 RC's effectivley had no vote. Housing discrimation: the allocation of a house to single prod women instead of an RC family with 3 children in Caledon,Tyrone. Not 4getting the 250 RC's on the housing list in that area alone. No rights: special powers act so admired by the South African apartheid Govt used soley on RC's
borledx 10 months ago
@borledx So if you cannot get a majority you just it somehow disqualifies you from voting at all?!! hahahaha As for your ex. of discrimination in housing, I conceded that it happened in SOME CASES in Unionist council areas & in rep. council areas too (like Newry) remember?? And didn't the Free State not have a Special Powers act aswell? Wasn't it the Free St. Gov that executed more IRA men post 1921 than us 'Brits' in the previous 15 yrs. (since the inception of the IRA)?? truth hurt does it!?
oz1641 10 months ago
@oz1641 NO moron, Nats had the maj in Derry & many other places in NI, but stormount gerrymandered the electoral districts 2 ensure unionist dominated councils There4 RC's had no vote. I think u shud check the definition of gerrymandering as u clearly dont understand de term. The "freestate" had a special powers act during a civil war which is normal, whilst NI had 1 for 50 years & was greatly admired by the S.Africans. The housing discrimination was std practice, take ur head out of ur arse
borledx 10 months ago
@borledx So then why wasn't a SINGLE COMPLAINT brought against Belfast council? the largest council in NI. The Cameron commision investigated claims of discrim. in only 4 COUNCILS, one of those was nat. controlled Newry Urban Co. Gerrymandering DID happen in L'derry, I concede that, & it was wrong, however Gerrymandering DID NOT GO ON EVERYWHERE. "nats" did not have a maj. in "many other places", RCs at the time were just 30% of the pop. so Gerrymandering was not needed...
oz1641 9 months ago
@oz1641 At the time Belfast was a maj unionist city so there was no need 4 gerrymandering there, although I read recently that RC's are now in the majority in Belfast. Derry is the most famous example of blatant gerrymandering but Dungannon, Lurgan, Enniskillen, etc were all gerrymandered as well. Also Tyrone & Fermanagh have always had RC majorities & at the time of partition, Tyrone Co council pledged its loyalty 2 Dublin wishing 2 have no part of NI, hence the gerrymandering tactic by prods
borledx 9 months ago
@borledx So in Lurgan & Enniskillen, 2 towns which even now have Unionist majorities you reckon there was gerrymandering? and you think that Tyrone Co. council pledged allegiance to Dublin!? and yet you have the front to lecture me about knowing my history?? hahahhaha...
oz1641 9 months ago
@oz1641 Their was an inquiry on 5th february 1964. Lurgan had a 42% RC population yet not 1 Nat counciler on the council. Ennislillen had 54% RC pop while having 6 councilers as opposed to 20 unionist councilers. No gerrymandering my arse. Its also a matter of historical record that Tyrone Co council pledged their allegiance to Dublin on hearing of partition, as Tyrone had always had a Nat majority just like Fermanagh. Y should 2 co's b forced into the union when they wanted no part of it?
borledx 9 months ago
@borledx 45% of the pop. of Fermanagh & 40% of Tyrone are Unionist, and they weren't "forced into the union" Lol they were KEPT within the Union. If your 'facts' are correct then why today does Fermanagh dist.council have only 23 councillors, 10 of whom are Unionists?!? What's the name of this 'inquiry' you are referring to? 'cause if it's the one I'm thinking of it was discredited years ago!
oz1641 9 months ago