wow ... "tridentine" mass in english?? you know that there was never an english translation of the Tridentine Missal approved for liturgical usage by the clergy... how this is catholic? and isn't what i saw a general abolution?
is it true what i hear that in your church priests don't hold to the law of celibacy?
@cunjoz As a matter of historical fact the original Mass instituted by our Lord Jesus was not in Latin. It was in the common language of the people. In the Old Catholic Church the holy Mass is still celebrated in the language of the people as it was when it was instituted by our Lord Jesus. It is true that Old Catholic Priests are married just like the original Priests, the Apostles, ordained by our Lord Jesus Himself So, this is how it is original and true Apostolic Catholicism.
@frbjoernLA 1.Last Supper was in hebrew, not in aramaic. All jewish liturgical ceremonies are carried in hebrew still today even in the u.s.
2.although Apostles were married(not all of them) , after the Pentecost they practised celibacy. Paul also wished for all to be celibate. Celibacy and virginity were esteemed higher than marriage. Even the bishops in the Eastern rite must be celibate
@dis00612 no. There is The Liberal Catholic Church. Valid and recognised by the Pope. We are independent of Rome. and we are Catholic through the Old Catholic Mission. There is NO true church, but many, to communicate through understanding. Maybe you should research before posting your personal opinion online, and then presenting as fact.
@RevDominic the liberal catholic church is NOT in communion with Rome making them not "catholic" but there own denomination. the liberal catholic church lets there members free in the matter of their beliefs so they believe many things others dont believe in their church which is contrary to scripture 1 Corinthian 1:10-13.
"Liberal Catholics are the worst enemies of the Church" - Blessed Pope Pius IX
The Old Catholic Church is in Full Communion with the Anglican Communion including the Church of England and recognise the validity of each others Bishops, Priests & Decons, episcopal succession and sacraments.
I think the term "Old Catholic" came from reference to resisting the so-called doctrine of Papal Infalibility, which came to be in the nineteenth century and has no basis in the original Seven Ecumenical Councils of the Catholic Church. The "Old Catholics" resisted this new idea. The Roman Catholic Church does recognize the Old Catholic Church - at least the one in Europe - of having authentic apostolic lineage - much as it does the Orthodox Churches.
@petermanz12 It is called Old Catholic because, we have retained the OLD liturgies remaining unchanged...where as Rome has changed her sacraments, and departed from those considered valid by her own standards..and we have retained the previous (pre- vatican I) doctrine AGAINST papal Infallibility.
@ANTIAMERICANCRUSADE There are many wonderful regenerate Christians in the Anglican Church who are trusting our blessed Lord Jesus as their Lord and Saviour and as such, they are brothers and sisters of all other regenerate Christians, weather they are Old Catholics, Vatican or Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox or Protestant Christians. Our blessed Lord Jesus said: Whosoever cometh unto Me, I will in no wise cast away! Surely all the above are included in the "Whosoever" of John 3:16?!!
@frbjoern I would tend to agree with this statement provided that they continually adhere to the holy traditions of the ancient church and have not allowed modernism to pervert their doctrines.
P.S. - Father, was there a reason why you unsubbed from my channel? Did I say something in one of my videos that you found offensive or erroneous?
@JonTheJansenist I do not remember unstubbing your channel. But then I am a computer dummy, please forgive me. I don''t even know what "unstubbed means!.
I agree with all statements proclaimed by our Blessed Lord Jesus as recorded in the Holy Scriptures, we reject all novel and Apostate statements refuted by the holy scriptures and the teaching of the early Church Fathers. I do not remember you saying anything theologically offensive! I appreciate your friendship. God's bless you. Jude24!
@frbjoern Understood, I had assumed that some of my arguments with certain Protestants (mostly Baptists) had turned you off, or some of my statements regarding my doctrine of Sovereign Grace had upset you. I share most of your Ecumenical ideals (though I do abstain from the Eucharist if and when I visit churches that don't share our catechism and covenant with the Old Catholic league). I view my debates with most other Christians as "in house" disagreements, though I am rough on Rome at times.
@frbjoern Thank you Father, I will continue to pray in hope, faith and love for the expansion of your ministry in California. Too many Old Catholic Churches are losing their direction and becoming lax in their faith. My friend FatherNathan actually left us for the Antioch Rite because of problems developing in the prelacy of his former league (I think he was with the OCCA).
Any way, my family will be keeping their holy vigil on Christmas, and I'll be spending it with them.
Interesting point. One could ask the same question of any of the teachings of the Apostles. They were mere men, but they were supposedly given authority from Jesus Christ. Peter erred in some teaching, but if you believe that he was invested with some dignity of office by Christ, it would be God Himself who would would expect us to respect his teachings. This is an important question posed by the Church. Do you trust his selection or would rather pick your own?
PNCC COMES from Old Catholic roots and is Old Catholic. Even Roman Catholic Canon law recognizes most Old Catholic churches coming from the like of Utrech as VALID. Papal Bull declares that RCs can received valid sacraments from OC priests when no RC is available. - +Robert D. Hall, D.Min.
The Roman Catholics and the Old Catholics broke up in 1870, over the doctrine of papal infallibility. Unless one side moves off the dime on that issue, it is going to be hard to reconcile.
As to if the Roman Church feels "Old Catholics" are valid: The answer is NO. The only church who (has similar roots) seen as valid is the PNCC (Polish National Catholic Church). However, they are not in full communion! Talks broke down years ago (actually by the PNCC). At last I understood it- it is in theory allowed for a PNCC to take sacraments from RC but not the other way around. YET, to make it more confusing- as the PNCC tradition isolated herself from Rome-it is not to be allowed.
@CorpusHermeticum From what you say, a similar situation exists between the Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox. The Roman Catholics will give Communion to an Orthodox who requests it, but most Orthodox priests will not knowingly give Communion to a Roman Catholic.
This seems most similar to the Anglo-Catholic Tradition (which will likely become Anglican Rite Catholic soon, after Benedict XVI's controversial decision made October 2009). I believe the only difference with these Old Catholics is that their highest authority is the Archbishop of Utrecht.
@dacatholicbandorgan It depends, considering many Old Catholic jurisdictions have started ordaining women. It likely would have to now be on a case by case basis.
@dacatholicbandorgan the sacraments are valid, but illicit. They are in schism from Rome. One could also argue either one way or the other that those groups of Old Catholics who have ordained women are also in heresy. Though the whole of the Old Catholic leaders who broke away in the beginning would technically be heretics for refusing the dogmatic teaching of papal infallibility.
@burkardhanis As I am sure you know, the requirements for the Fatherly Sacrament of Holy Orders to be valid 3 things are necessary according to traditional Catholic teaching: (1) Matter. (2) Form. (3) Intent. The first of these: Matter, mean a Christian Man as in the case of the 12 Apostles and every Priest in the true Church for the past 2 thousand. The sacred office of Mother, Wife and Sister have other holy functions but Bishop, Priest and Deacon is not one of them.
Respond to this video... Also! Priest is a masculine noun. Priestess is a feminine noun. There are many Motherly sacred offices in the Mystical Body of Christ but there is no such thing as a sacerdotal Priestess in the Christian Church. Many Old Catholic, or more correctly; so called Old Catholic Churches have deviated from the Christian Church, others have not , thank God!. As far as the Vatican is concerned; people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones!!!
I am of Scandinavian heritage born in Germany and raised in Ireland. My family name is Kroneberg and my parents baptized me as: Björn. My Irish Mothers maiden name was Barry which I believe is also of Scandinavian origin because of its Norman roots. TheEcumenator who commented about me is a handsome young Brazilian by the name of Hans. We Vikings get around! Hans also has some very interesting video's on YouTube promoting the Faith of our blessed Lord Jesus.
Yes indeed, and as I am sure you already know (but maybe not all Youtubers), America was discovered by the Viking Leif Eriksson and not Christofer Colombus. Gloria Dei!
"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus" Rom. 8:1. "If you will confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus, and will believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved", "for whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" Rom. 10:9,13. "The blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin" 1John 1:7. "by grace you are saved through faith; not of yourselves, it is a gift of God" Eph. 3:8 "
"For God so loved the world that whosoever believeth on Him should not perish but have everlasting Life" John 3:16. "him that cometh unto me I will in no wise cast out" John 6:37. "I am the door: by Me, if anyone enter in, he shall be saved" John 10:9. "I am the Way the Truth and the Life: no one cometh unto the Father,but by me" John 14:9. "neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." Acts 4:12. Jude 24!
We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff. (Pope Boniface VIII, the Bull Unam Sanctam, 1302.)
A papal bull does not carry the same level of authority as a council or an infallible declaration. This has perhaps slightly more authority than a magisterial statement because it is ex cathedra, but it is not irreformable. Furthermore, I think this kind of language was meant to be interpreted. For example, since all Christians are members of the same body, etc. etc you know the rest.
@rollypollyjoe I do not mean to be offensive but considering some of the historic Papal Bulls of the past, how much authority do you think a Papal Bull really carries in Heaven before Almighty God's Throne of Grace?? Do you need me to mention some of those Papal Bulls???
wow ... "tridentine" mass in english?? you know that there was never an english translation of the Tridentine Missal approved for liturgical usage by the clergy... how this is catholic? and isn't what i saw a general abolution?
is it true what i hear that in your church priests don't hold to the law of celibacy?
cunjoz 1 month ago
@cunjoz As a matter of historical fact the original Mass instituted by our Lord Jesus was not in Latin. It was in the common language of the people. In the Old Catholic Church the holy Mass is still celebrated in the language of the people as it was when it was instituted by our Lord Jesus. It is true that Old Catholic Priests are married just like the original Priests, the Apostles, ordained by our Lord Jesus Himself So, this is how it is original and true Apostolic Catholicism.
frbjoernLA 3 weeks ago
@frbjoernLA 1.Last Supper was in hebrew, not in aramaic. All jewish liturgical ceremonies are carried in hebrew still today even in the u.s.
2.although Apostles were married(not all of them) , after the Pentecost they practised celibacy. Paul also wished for all to be celibate. Celibacy and virginity were esteemed higher than marriage. Even the bishops in the Eastern rite must be celibate
cunjoz 3 weeks ago
@dis00612, spoken like a true member of the Inquisition.
stevebaylot 4 months ago
what is this?
ldizzle2727 7 months ago
THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH IS THE ONE TRUE CHURCH. WE ARE THE ONE TRUE HOLY CATHOLIC APOSTOLIC AND ROMAN CHURCH!
dis00612 10 months ago
@dis00612 no. There is The Liberal Catholic Church. Valid and recognised by the Pope. We are independent of Rome. and we are Catholic through the Old Catholic Mission. There is NO true church, but many, to communicate through understanding. Maybe you should research before posting your personal opinion online, and then presenting as fact.
RevDominic 6 months ago
@RevDominic the liberal catholic church is NOT in communion with Rome making them not "catholic" but there own denomination. the liberal catholic church lets there members free in the matter of their beliefs so they believe many things others dont believe in their church which is contrary to scripture 1 Corinthian 1:10-13.
"Liberal Catholics are the worst enemies of the Church" - Blessed Pope Pius IX
dis00612 6 months ago
The Old Catholic Church is in Full Communion with the Anglican Communion including the Church of England and recognise the validity of each others Bishops, Priests & Decons, episcopal succession and sacraments.
gfsquire 1 year ago
The old catholic church is the one and only real church.
paranormaalutrecht 1 year ago
Is it ? What about the Liberal Catholic Church ... ?
RevDominic 1 year ago
not experts in liturgy, are they?
frsdonahue 1 year ago
no there not
RevDominic 1 year ago
@RevDominic yes they are, the Liberal Catholic Church is orginated from the Old Catholic Church of England
ewout1100 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I love how this is called the "Old" catholic church, started in the mid-1800s as opposed to the Catholic Church, started in 33(to 37)a.d.
petermanz12 1 year ago
i love how this is called the "old catholic church", started in the mid 1800s as opposed to the Catholic Church started in 33(to like 37) a.d.
petermanz12 1 year ago
I think the term "Old Catholic" came from reference to resisting the so-called doctrine of Papal Infalibility, which came to be in the nineteenth century and has no basis in the original Seven Ecumenical Councils of the Catholic Church. The "Old Catholics" resisted this new idea. The Roman Catholic Church does recognize the Old Catholic Church - at least the one in Europe - of having authentic apostolic lineage - much as it does the Orthodox Churches.
stevebaylot 1 year ago
The Liberal Catholic Church is also recognised by Rome
RevDominic 1 year ago
@RevDominic the liberal catholic church is originated from the Old Catholic Church in 1916 in England by Mgr. Wedgwood
ewout1100 8 months ago
@petermanz12 It is called Old Catholic because, we have retained the OLD liturgies remaining unchanged...where as Rome has changed her sacraments, and departed from those considered valid by her own standards..and we have retained the previous (pre- vatican I) doctrine AGAINST papal Infallibility.
ljmuncy09 2 months ago
@ANTIAMERICANCRUSADE There are many wonderful regenerate Christians in the Anglican Church who are trusting our blessed Lord Jesus as their Lord and Saviour and as such, they are brothers and sisters of all other regenerate Christians, weather they are Old Catholics, Vatican or Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox or Protestant Christians. Our blessed Lord Jesus said: Whosoever cometh unto Me, I will in no wise cast away! Surely all the above are included in the "Whosoever" of John 3:16?!!
frbjoern 1 year ago
@frbjoern I would tend to agree with this statement provided that they continually adhere to the holy traditions of the ancient church and have not allowed modernism to pervert their doctrines.
P.S. - Father, was there a reason why you unsubbed from my channel? Did I say something in one of my videos that you found offensive or erroneous?
JonTheJansenist 1 year ago
@JonTheJansenist I do not remember unstubbing your channel. But then I am a computer dummy, please forgive me. I don''t even know what "unstubbed means!.
I agree with all statements proclaimed by our Blessed Lord Jesus as recorded in the Holy Scriptures, we reject all novel and Apostate statements refuted by the holy scriptures and the teaching of the early Church Fathers. I do not remember you saying anything theologically offensive! I appreciate your friendship. God's bless you. Jude24!
frbjoern 1 year ago
@frbjoern Understood, I had assumed that some of my arguments with certain Protestants (mostly Baptists) had turned you off, or some of my statements regarding my doctrine of Sovereign Grace had upset you. I share most of your Ecumenical ideals (though I do abstain from the Eucharist if and when I visit churches that don't share our catechism and covenant with the Old Catholic league). I view my debates with most other Christians as "in house" disagreements, though I am rough on Rome at times.
JonTheJansenist 1 year ago
@JonTheJansenist P.S. I also wish you a blessed and peaceful feast of the Nativity of our Lord Jesus.
frbjoern 1 year ago
@frbjoern Thank you Father, I will continue to pray in hope, faith and love for the expansion of your ministry in California. Too many Old Catholic Churches are losing their direction and becoming lax in their faith. My friend FatherNathan actually left us for the Antioch Rite because of problems developing in the prelacy of his former league (I think he was with the OCCA).
Any way, my family will be keeping their holy vigil on Christmas, and I'll be spending it with them.
JonTheJansenist 1 year ago
Fr bjoern:
Interesting point. One could ask the same question of any of the teachings of the Apostles. They were mere men, but they were supposedly given authority from Jesus Christ. Peter erred in some teaching, but if you believe that he was invested with some dignity of office by Christ, it would be God Himself who would would expect us to respect his teachings. This is an important question posed by the Church. Do you trust his selection or would rather pick your own?
rollypollyjoe 1 year ago
“The Churches which, while not existing in perfect communion
with the [Roman] Catholic Church, remain united to her by
means of the closest bonds, that is, by apostolic succession
and a valid Eucharist, are true particular Churches.”
“Therefore, these separated Churches as
such have by no means been deprived of significance and
importance in the mystery of salvation“Therefore, these separated Churches and communities as
such … have by no means been deprived of validity.
RevRobertDHall 1 year ago
In 2000, Pope JP II ratified the publication of Dominus Iesus. This declaration
from the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith was signed
and published by Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger (now Pope
Benedict XVI) in August of that same year.
In this declaration, the RCC recognizes the
VALIDITY of orders and sacraments of Catholic Churches not in
communion with Rome, such as Old Catholic.
RevRobertDHall 1 year ago
PNCC COMES from Old Catholic roots and is Old Catholic. Even Roman Catholic Canon law recognizes most Old Catholic churches coming from the like of Utrech as VALID. Papal Bull declares that RCs can received valid sacraments from OC priests when no RC is available. - +Robert D. Hall, D.Min.
RevRobertDHall 1 year ago
The Roman Catholics and the Old Catholics broke up in 1870, over the doctrine of papal infallibility. Unless one side moves off the dime on that issue, it is going to be hard to reconcile.
mindspring57 1 year ago
As to if the Roman Church feels "Old Catholics" are valid: The answer is NO. The only church who (has similar roots) seen as valid is the PNCC (Polish National Catholic Church). However, they are not in full communion! Talks broke down years ago (actually by the PNCC). At last I understood it- it is in theory allowed for a PNCC to take sacraments from RC but not the other way around. YET, to make it more confusing- as the PNCC tradition isolated herself from Rome-it is not to be allowed.
CorpusHermeticum 1 year ago
@CorpusHermeticum From what you say, a similar situation exists between the Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox. The Roman Catholics will give Communion to an Orthodox who requests it, but most Orthodox priests will not knowingly give Communion to a Roman Catholic.
mindspring57 1 year ago
This seems most similar to the Anglo-Catholic Tradition (which will likely become Anglican Rite Catholic soon, after Benedict XVI's controversial decision made October 2009). I believe the only difference with these Old Catholics is that their highest authority is the Archbishop of Utrecht.
MykeSoBe 2 years ago
Nice Father Bjoern! Are you of Scandinavian heritage?
karpov89 2 years ago
He is born in germany
TheEcumenator 2 years ago
Does Rome recognize the Old Catholic church as being valid?
dacatholicbandorgan 2 years ago
i don't think so
TheEcumenator 2 years ago
@TheEcumenator Actually, officially yes but grudgingly!
frbjoern 1 year ago
@dacatholicbandorgan It depends, considering many Old Catholic jurisdictions have started ordaining women. It likely would have to now be on a case by case basis.
johnross12 1 year ago
@dacatholicbandorgan the sacraments are valid, but illicit. They are in schism from Rome. One could also argue either one way or the other that those groups of Old Catholics who have ordained women are also in heresy. Though the whole of the Old Catholic leaders who broke away in the beginning would technically be heretics for refusing the dogmatic teaching of papal infallibility.
burkardhanis 1 year ago
@burkardhanis As I am sure you know, the requirements for the Fatherly Sacrament of Holy Orders to be valid 3 things are necessary according to traditional Catholic teaching: (1) Matter. (2) Form. (3) Intent. The first of these: Matter, mean a Christian Man as in the case of the 12 Apostles and every Priest in the true Church for the past 2 thousand. The sacred office of Mother, Wife and Sister have other holy functions but Bishop, Priest and Deacon is not one of them.
frbjoern 1 year ago
Respond to this video... Also! Priest is a masculine noun. Priestess is a feminine noun. There are many Motherly sacred offices in the Mystical Body of Christ but there is no such thing as a sacerdotal Priestess in the Christian Church. Many Old Catholic, or more correctly; so called Old Catholic Churches have deviated from the Christian Church, others have not , thank God!. As far as the Vatican is concerned; people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones!!!
frbjoern 1 year ago
I am of Scandinavian heritage born in Germany and raised in Ireland. My family name is Kroneberg and my parents baptized me as: Björn. My Irish Mothers maiden name was Barry which I believe is also of Scandinavian origin because of its Norman roots. TheEcumenator who commented about me is a handsome young Brazilian by the name of Hans. We Vikings get around! Hans also has some very interesting video's on YouTube promoting the Faith of our blessed Lord Jesus.
frbjoern 2 years ago
Yes indeed, and as I am sure you already know (but maybe not all Youtubers), America was discovered by the Viking Leif Eriksson and not Christofer Colombus. Gloria Dei!
karpov89 2 years ago
"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus" Rom. 8:1. "If you will confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus, and will believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved", "for whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" Rom. 10:9,13. "The blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin" 1John 1:7. "by grace you are saved through faith; not of yourselves, it is a gift of God" Eph. 3:8 "
frbjoern 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
"For God so loved the world that whosoever believeth on Him should not perish but have everlasting Life" John 3:16. "him that cometh unto me I will in no wise cast out" John 6:37. "I am the door: by Me, if anyone enter in, he shall be saved" John 10:9. "I am the Way the Truth and the Life: no one cometh unto the Father,but by me" John 14:9. "neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." Acts 4:12. Jude 24!
frbjoern 2 years ago
We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff. (Pope Boniface VIII, the Bull Unam Sanctam, 1302.)
ByzantineSpirit 3 years ago
A papal bull does not carry the same level of authority as a council or an infallible declaration. This has perhaps slightly more authority than a magisterial statement because it is ex cathedra, but it is not irreformable. Furthermore, I think this kind of language was meant to be interpreted. For example, since all Christians are members of the same body, etc. etc you know the rest.
rollypollyjoe 2 years ago
@rollypollyjoe I do not mean to be offensive but considering some of the historic Papal Bulls of the past, how much authority do you think a Papal Bull really carries in Heaven before Almighty God's Throne of Grace?? Do you need me to mention some of those Papal Bulls???
frbjoern 1 year ago
I love the Vestments!!!
edi1063 3 years ago