The Great Debate: Thom Hartmann vs Michael Medved (6/10)

[jayhawker53]

medved kicked this bastards ass!!!!!!

[trogelstad12]

About 2:27 after Medved destroyed him. That pompus schmucks face is classic. You just got served. hahah

[dinkydkmg]

Medved knows music.

[Newspeakgeneration]

hartmann says that tobacco shouldn't be sold because it is damaging to health... but he's open to most drugs..

[ThriceThursday]

If the biggest thing Michael despises about the Obama Administration is that he's funding the arts, then Obama must not be doing that bad.

[Newspeakgeneration]

@ThriceThursday if hartmann only has to say the gop flips the stars upside down.. the gop must not being do that bad

[ThriceThursday]

@Newspeakgeneration

If Thom would have said that's his biggest thing he despises about the GOP, then I'd agree with you. The upside down thing, was something his was curious about and something that is not relevant for someone watching the video now (since its years later). But I agree that Thom should have asked a better question.

[Newspeakgeneration]

@ThriceThursday .. idk but his weak ass point about the star was ridiculous

[lakeeriejew]

Hatmann!!!! Big boo boo.

Venturing into that music bit came back to bite you big time.

Notice he's left speechless.

Michaelangelo - DaVinci, what the hell....all the same.

[lakeeriejew]

Hatmann!!!! Big booboo.

Venturing into that music bit came back to bite you big time.

Notice he's left speechless.

[Littlegoose65]

lolno.

[R1suke]

haha don't take medved on about history! owned on the beethoven thing

[jayhawker53]

it doesn't surprise me that hartman would decriminalize pot. hartman probably has been caught with pot or somebody in his family. most liberals are for making pot legal. i do agree that if people have to use this dumb drug, they shouldn't go to jail. why do you potheads have to smoke this drug or cigarettes or anything. you potheads need to grow up! more people are ruining their lives with drugs then liquor. yes, there are people that are ruining their lives with liquor.

[cruiscinlan]

i would ask mr medved: is a child whose parents don't subscribe to health insurance entitled to medical care for free? the child clearly cannot pay and cannot choose whether or not to pay; under mr. medved's definitions, it would seem parents could be deemed guilty of neglect. i think the hallmark of a just civilization is an inherent notion in each of its citizens that we have each other's backs. i like compassion and sharing versus this is mine, "stupid"

[teapot816]

Fuck ya if I grow opium in my backyard the government shouldn't tell me shit.

[jscottupton]

Medved wins. But Michael you need to brush up on how private fire departments and private road can work.

[Huntington1234567]

2:35 Man, the look on Harmann's face, when Medved takes him to school about Bach and Beethoven, is absolutely priceless. hahaha

[TheFreethinker71]

@Huntington1234567 I agree!! Hartmann just doesn't know how to respond because he knows that Medved is much more educated and backs up his arguments with facts instead of emotion. He looked really dumb at that moment!

[johnmiles]

@TheFreethinker71 Oh please. He chose not to argue the point further because this is a debate over political issues, not an immature game of one-upsmanship over who knows more trivia about Bach and Beethoven. Besides, he had already made his point that governments have historically had a role in funding great artists.

Hartmann clearly has a deeper knowledge of the thoughts and writings of the founding fathers and various other topics which are obviously much more relevant to the debate.

[TheFreethinker71]

@johnmiles Thom clearly has a deeper knowledge?? If you think Hartmann is so brilliant, then please give me an answer to the same question that Medved asked; where does this deep-seated belief in the govt doing anything cheaper or better come from? If people honestly think that govt is so great at doing anything other than national defense, then why did the USPS lose $7B in 2009, why does Amtrak continue to get subsidized, & why do we have one of the worst public education systems in the world?

[johnmiles]

@TheFreethinker71 I don't know how you'd expect me to argue Thom's intelligence with you; I guess I'd recommend you watch more videos of him on here or look into all the books he's written about various topics.

As for your other points: number one, it's nonsensical to make this arbitrary distinction and claim government can do national defense well and nothing else. If government can handle a multi-billion dollar war effort, it can also use it's power to help improve its citizens' lives.

[johnmiles]

@TheFreethinker71 Secondly, I know the government can do things cheaper and better because they do all the time. Medicare pays for healthcare at a fraction of the cost private insurance companies do because money isn't skimmed off the top for advertising, overhead and obscene CEO paychecks and bonuses.

The USPS loses money because it's purpose is to provide a basic, essential service, not to operate at a profit. The Postal Service delivers to places in our country FedEx and UPS won't.

[johnmiles]

@TheFreethinker71 The USPS also pays it's employees fair union wages and benefits, which FedEx doesn't.

Amtrak gets subsidized because it likewise provides an essential service which is more expensive to operate in a large country like the U.S. than in European countries.

Our education system isn't currently as good as it should be for several reasons, but our country has excelled in education during various times when public schools existed so I'm not sure what your point is.

[jayhawker53]

@johnmiles hey johnny boy, hartman brought it up. when you bring something up like that, somebody will respond to it.

[johnmiles]

@jayhawker53 And your point is...?

Medved did respond, and Hartmann chose to let it go and allow the discussion to return to the larger issue at hand. Neither Medved nor you have disproved his larger point about many great artists being publicly funded by governments.

But you conservatives keep harping on this one moment in the debate because you're desperately looking for somewhere that Medved "owned" Hartmann, completely ignoring the larger context of everything that's being said.

[tnordloh]

Wow. Thom Hartmann is a moron. A lot of the time he comes to the right answers for the wrong reasons.

[shroomduke]

Michael Medved We know, you believe Government should only fund Republicans, Dictators, Coups to ouster democrats, Murder, bombings, Death Squads, Insurections, assassinations, trivial investigations into democrats, Corporate Welfare, and Israel!

if it's money your worried about STOP UNNECESSARY WARS

if you don't want to answer a question fain ignorance.

Michael if I can grow pot why would I buy it?

[teapot816]

@shroomduke I say you debate him.

[AustinDpOwers89]

@shroomduke lol what garbage r u smoking? or are u just drinking the liberal kool-aid?

[TastesGood15]

the conservatives on youtube get all hyped up that medved knows more then hartmann about beethoven lol

[blankportraits]

@TastesGood15 yea they do, and Medved did more or less own Thom on Beethoven facts. That, however doesn't make up for the fact that the conservative ideology essentially ruined this country. And thanks to the Republicans continued obstruction, they may have ruined it for good.

[jscottupton]

@blankportraits if republicans are "obstructing" higher taxes, more government spending, bigger government...then I say "obstruct away"

[blankportraits]

@jscottupton You, like most Americans, don't have the faintest clue what any of those terms mean. You might as well say "durrr if they're against buzzword A and promise to do buzzword B dey got mah vote durrrr"

[bonfirejovi]

Who the fuck cares if we don't get another Mozart or Beethoven. I like them both but that is no reason to waste public money on something as trivial as culture. This shouldnt even be a discussion.

[trembleweeds]

Upside-down star?

That was Thom's question?

[GaryHMan]

2:00 = Medved was almost drooling talking about Beethoven turning to the profit motive. Snort snort grub grub for that money = it excites him so!

[BasementFishFilms]

They are upside down.

[alphecca2539]

Medved has won every segment. I almost pity the Leftard opposite him.

[hikrose]

@alphecca2539 I would have said the opposite. I see Thom Hartmann making intellectual mincemeat of him.

[thedocumentarian]

@alphecca2539 I strongly disagree. I hardly think Medved won every segment. I think Michael got slaughtered in the healthcare segment because he changed the subject drastically. It's good to look at both sides (Libtards and Cuntservatives) and not just root for one.

[GetMeThere1]

Rough consensus between these two guys that, my paraphrase, "Marijuana prohibition is a waste" can only mean that lifting prohibition can't be far off.

[libralssuck]

oooooooooooooooooooooooooooo mike fucked him up

[SAMSONestacado]

Why would you not believe in public funding of political campaigns? It is the funding polititians recieve from private institutions/lobbyists that causes so many headaches is it not? Perhaps they should all be completely and equally taxpayer funded.

[tonyschmoeredux]

Thom Hartmann is illiterate in history.

Michael Medved is not.

[rukidnme2]

Yes, Michael Medved is not illiterate in art history. And knowledge of art history is really what determines who knows what is best for the public policy of their country.

I mean really, I can't think of a single example of a government that was well-versed in art history and didn't end up being a disaster for the entire world...CAN YOU????

[tonyschmoeredux]

That wasn't art history, it was economic history.

[jahellaspartan]

@tonyschmoeredux

.... if that's the only thing you can point out in positive reference about Micheal Medved then feel rest assured that he has at least walked away from this political debate knowing his art. Maybe, someday,y he may like to take up political science.

[tonyschmoeredux]

It was Thom who brought it up, not MIke, and Thom got it wrong. Lefties are good only when they wield invective. I don''t condemn Thom because he made a mistake, anyone will do that sometime. But it is fair to say that to lefties, accuracy of fact is an anathema to their belief system. Thom tried to make an economics point by bringing up artists of the past ---(that is not art history as you keep labeling it)--and Mike showed Thom was historically inaccurate.

[WeedGreenPowerRanger]

@tonyschmoeredux

How much of the rest of the debate did you watch?

Michael made an even worse foible when the hosts brought up economic recovery and obama and michael cuts off the host by saying "AHA! TARP!", and everyone in the room said "No, that was Bush".

That was just one.

Furthermore, michael was only right about Bach. He was mum on beethoven, except when he said "No, those were by crowned heads". Beethoven depended HEAVILY on that Crowned Head government.

[WeedGreenPowerRanger]

@tonyschmoeredux

"Lefties are good only when they wield invective."

Being a leftist, its my prerogative to disagree, but I would simply point you to the Tea Parties for that one...

Oh, and Limbaugh and Beck are great for invective as well.

"Thom tried to make an economics point by bringing up artists of the past ---(that is not art history as you keep labeling it)--and Mike showed Thom was historically inaccurate."

About ONE composer of the two he brought up. The point still stands.

[WeedGreenPowerRanger]

As to michael's later point about Beethoven's finances and grand ideas for concerts, He fails to mention that Beethoven hardly made a penny from his conventional capitalist endeavors.

The fact remains that had those Crowned Heads not financed him, no one would have ever heard of Beethoven, no matter how genius his Beatles-like aspirations were.

The difference between Thom and Michael is that Thom stops talking when he doesn't know the subject. Michael keeps going even if he has to lie.

[WeedGreenPowerRanger]

@tonyschmoeredux

I should also note that this is the only time in the entire debate that Medved attains the Smug Victory look.

The other points he makes get swatted down, with few exceptions.

[WeedGreenPowerRanger]

@tonyschmoeredux

No, it was Art History.

I defy you to take any economics class short of "Financing of the Arts", and see if they bring up Bach, Beethoven, or any other composers.

The funding of the arts is a minor footnote concerning economics.

[tonyschmoeredux]

@WeedGreenPowerRanger It was economics history.  That is why Thom Fartman sited it: to make a point regarding economics. And he sited the history inaccurately as all lefties have to.

[WeedGreenPowerRanger]

@tonyschmoeredux

No, he was making a point about Art being subsidized by the Government, which is a notion that Michael Medved is obviously against.

It has almost NOTHING to do with Economics.

Businesses, Stock Markets, Brokerage firms, Monopolies, Marketting, The Sherman Anti-Trust Act, Smoot-Hawley, Trade Tarriffs, Production, Consumption, Distribution, etc are all discussions of Economics.

Explain how it could have POSSIBLY been an economic point.

Because someone got PAID?

Try again.

[bonfirejovi]

@WeedGreenPowerRanger "No, he was making a point about Art being SUBSIDIZED by the Government"

That word has a lot to do with economics. Government has no money and can only take from one sector and invest in in which has a lot to do with economics. Economics is almost ever part of our lives.

[WeedGreenPowerRanger]

@bonfirejovi

"That word has a lot to do with economics"

What, did you just read that single post? My point was that this subject is most correctly categorized as Art History, not Economic history.

"Government has no money and can only take from one sector and invest in in which has a lot to do with economics. "

Not exactly, but thats beside the point.

"Economics is almost ever part of our lives."

Yes, and you'll learn more about Beethovens funding in an Art class than an Economics class.

[WeedGreenPowerRanger]

"That word has a lot to do with economics."

I was responding to a guy who said that Medved beat the shit out of Hartmann in Economic discussion. My point was that it had less to do with economics than it did art history. The comment of mine that you posted was a reply to a jackass who kept trying to fudge the line between Art and Economics in an attempt to make it look like Medved knew what the fuck he was talking about.

All it had to do with Econ was the fact that someone got paid.

[michigan6443]

@WeedGreenPowerRanger please use less wording a sentence is suffient.

[steves39]

Thom may or or may not be ignorant on art history but he is very astute on World, American and Political History.

But I would check Medved's facts on Beethoven because when a neocon is moving his mouth he is lying to us.

[tonyschmoeredux]

Thom is well drilled in leftwing dogma.

[jahellaspartan]

@tonyschmoeredux

... and Micheal is aright wing watchdog for all the neoconservatives and corrupt corporations.

[dmlauffer]

wow, medved nailed him on the composers.

[MrTabby5000]

@dmlauffer

But who really cares about them,they are dead.

[dmlauffer]

@mrtabby5000

I just thought it was impressive. A liberal getting zinged about the arts.

[MrTabby5000]

Im unfamiliar with the arts,I dont care about the arts,the arts will not put food on my table.

[dmlauffer]

well said

[MrTabby5000]

Thats how I feel about it,for the people interested in the arts thats their thing,but not for me.

[blotchy67]

I can grow opium poppies and coca leaves in my yard too.

[blotchy67]

Hartmann loses the debate at 6:28

[MrTabby5000]

They are upside down.

[ohshiite]

1:33 pwned

[anon0019]

@ohshiite

i lol'ed so hard.

"oh how about these other classic musical composers"

"no it's ok Thom... why don't we get back to things that matter... btw your bad at music..." lol

[xxashyy]

Its funny Liberals become anti government when it comes to they're drugs.

[MrTabby5000]

so does rush limbaugh.

[vigilantcomposer]

actually no he did not get anti-gov't. Were did you hear this? What a silly question, you didn't hear it from anywhere.

[vigilantcomposer]

Wow. thom hartmann, by posing that ridiculous question devoid of substance and reality, you have discredited yourself.

Medved is right, I guess we are in a lot better shape then we think it is.

By the second video I lost hope that you weren't going to be a formidable debater but now after watching this video, you are just pathetic. Despite your unfamiliarity with classical music history, it was just that ridiculous question. So sad and lame.

[JustCamus]

I was surprised by his question, as well. BUT, he clearly stated that it was the question he didn't have an answer to.

So, don't get too conclusive with your negative views on Hartmann.

Regarding classical music history, he's human.

Medved indeed made himself look ridiculous at times.

[SpreadingtheMuse]

Since Hartmann's history of classical music was obviously beneath Medved's he should have known better than to bring it up in the first place. You cant just yell "BACH!" and pretend that makes you an expert.

Medved was far more in charge of all his facts thru the whole debate.

[vigilantcomposer]

The point is, It was an unproductive question. At least we learned a thing or two what Hartmann thought of the Obama administration.

Hartmann resorted to conspiracy theories and posed it as a legitimate question. He had nothin!

If he is a man of the Left and he wants to be a major contender in this culture war or a dignified political challenger he shouldn't insult his opponents intelligence with paranoid highschool liberal fantasies.

If Medved was ridiculous, Hartmann was laughable.

[JustCamus]

I'll agree with you that it was a mistake to ask such a question in a serious debate.

But besides his mistakes on classical music and art, Hartmann OBVIOUSLY showed great knowledge in this debate. His compassion shined through, as well.

[vigilantcomposer]

I don't care about whether he lacks knowledge of classical music, that is his problem.

I wasn't oblivious to his content. I saw the video and they both showed great knowledge.

Hartmann repeats rhetoric. Medved is against government intrusion, excessive regulation and mandates, spending on entitlements, bailouts & taxpayer-funded ObamaCare, which expects inflation, higher taxes & higher interest rates. U may not like'em but actually Medved was showin more compassion for u, the tax payer.

[MrTabby5000]

medved still wants government to tell you who you can marry,what a woman does with her body and her parasitic fetus..

[vigilantcomposer]

I don't think you have ever read anything by Medved have you? And parasitic fetus? You have just reduced human life to a leech, a bloodsucking worm. That is weak. "Medved wants gov't to tell you who to marry and what a women does with her body!! Watch out for that evil despicable Man!!!!" This is just rhetoric. Get your own opinions.

[MrTabby5000]

Yes they do they want abolishment of abortion and the homos not to marry.If a woman wants to abort, its her sin and judgement,not mine.

If the homos want to marry,its their sin,not mine.

So its their business,let them do what they want.

[vigilantcomposer]

This lack of awareness of how society changing these sorts of issue have, leads me to believe u consider yourself perfectly normal & open-minded, when in reality u are bigoted (in a political sense) & close-minded. I urge u to take a year listenin to TalkRadio, read conservative thinkers & take your time & really think things through. After that take some time for some self introspection only then will u stop spouting superficial rhetoric & start offerin reasoned responses. Good luck

[MrTabby5000]

No,im not bigoted,im a liberal.I dont care what other people do,but republicans do.I am just sick and tired of hearing about gay marriage on the media,let them marry already and be done with it.

[vigilantcomposer]

I have to tell you, those first two sentences made me laugh so hard. Okay, now that out of the way, Im glad you acknowledge that republicans care about society and what people do in it. So, your concern is not whether it is right or wrong if marriage is redefined or whether it will radically change society, and you really haven't thought about anything... you just want it to go away?

[MrTabby5000]

you must be confusing me with a republican, I take offense in that I am a hardcore card carrying communist who believes obama should have the power of stalin till the day he dies.

[vigilantcomposer]

Nope. No confusion. You acknowledge rep's care what people do within a society. I'm waiting for a reasonable response, which would prob take a lifetime because you clearly don't have one.

So, you just want the issue of gay marriage to go away? You are not clear on this. First you say rep's don't want them to marry, okay, and you don't know why. You just say, you want them to be done with it and let them marry. I don't think you know the other sides argument(s). Consult my above advice.

[WeedGreenPowerRanger]

@vigilantcomposer

You know you're getting Trolled by a conservative in disguise, right?

[everywhere1]

The only parasitic fetus was the one your mother carried around that became YOU............. Sorry that you feel like a parasite. GOOD LUCK TO YOU!!

[MrTabby5000]

@everywhere1

It is a parasite,it feeds off the host.

[nickbnntt]

"If the public wants them then the public will see to it that it keeps them."

How does the public keep them. I'll take a wild guess and assume you mean through the marketplace. Everything is decided by the market. Conservatives like to believe this myth and in theory, it has some merit. But tested in reality it is wrong. The idea that markets are rational and everyone involved in markets are rational is wrong. We have to find a balance, and public subsidies have a place.

[SpreadingtheMuse]

The public can keep public television if public television can survive the competitive marketplace -like every other station has to do- instead of getting special privileges it doesnt deserve and no one asked for.

[SpreadingtheMuse]

Hartmans face when he got utterly owned on the Beethoven point was worth the whole show. I love seeing an expert (Medved) rake over the amateurs. ;)

[nickbnntt]

Medved is a dork. He's like a teenager that corrects your every word because they think they are smart, but misses the point. Of course government has supported the arts and will continue to. Beethoven included. For gods sake has this man never heard of an art museum. How much public money do you think they get? Goofball.

[SpreadingtheMuse]

Medved's point is that if these stupendous "public" services cannot survive SOLELY on help from the public, then the government is pushing a failing enterprise. If the public wants them then the public will see to it that it keeps them. Monetary crutches from the feds only prove that these institutions cant self-sustain based on their own merit.

[JustCamus]

It's called humility, and it should be admired.

[tomestubbs]

Have it the Repugnican way. There would be no culture. as Arthur Miller once said "Capitalism has many virtues, the arts are not one of them." With the Reich wing's vision of the arts it would be a very boring world of wall paper art and Muzak. They R culturally insipid.

[Tulkastaldo]

Liberals make the mistake of thinking all republicans are ignorant of Arts and culture. That is why Medved opened a nice can of whoopass on the whole Beethoven argument.

[exenrontexas]

Some conservatives ARE aware of culture and arts, but they want to control it in many ways. They want the GOVERNMENT to give them tax breaks for supporting it, but then keep it for themselves. What they are generally ignorant of is the fact that the Constitution says that government...IS THE PEOPLE acting my majority rule to express their will. Read the PreAmble for the clarification. The people can DO what they WANT to do and support what they want with few exceptions. PERIOD.

[nothingmsc]

not to mention conservatives tastes in art are awful, and they are responsible for the top40 listening americans point of view that if they sell out then they are good. the artist might be outdated in a year but hey they made money

[anon0019]

@exenrontexas

the government is the tool of the people, by the people, for the people.

but something else we must also understand is that anything created, bares the flaws of it's creator.. i think we both could agree that Washington has been overrun with greed, self and special interest, deceit, and distraction from the art that is problem solving and debate. IMO we need less politicians and more retired business people, engineers, doctors, and laborers running things - not career politicians.

[michigan6443]

@exenrontexas keep it for themselves? where ? who? I am not rich and I too enjoy the arts. you're full of methane.

[exenrontexas]

@michigan6443 Just ONE example of how stupid your comment is: David Rockefeller, the heir to the Rockefeller OIL fortune, has HUNDREDS of MILLIONS in paintings and sculpture which he has stored him various buildings PRIVATELY. He cycles a FEW pieces a year to certain museums but takes the TAX DEDUCTION for ALL of it&the transportation&his buying trips around the world and the storage costs and he takes those deduction repeatedly. The Rockefellers and the rich RAISE the regular Americans taxes.

[michigan6443]

@exenrontexas Who cares ...move along.

[exenrontexas]

@michigan6443 Since it appears that you want the United States to fail in the support of the Constitution and the PEOPLE, then I suggest you move to a place more amenable, more supportive and more suitable to your views like..KAZAKSTAN.

[tomestubbs]

Does Medved know the music of Beethoven, Bach, Mozart? I did not see much support of more challenging composers Schoenberg, Ives, Bartok etc. and they were just as great as those other composers. "Those who know the cost of everything and the value of nothing are truly impoverished." (Arthur Miller again.)

[Piglatinsuperstar]

system instead of having the republicans decide for us what a terrible waste of money it would be for the taxpayers.

I think the republicans lost that argument once they supported Bush for his occupation in Iraq.

[dangela81]

This guy (Hartmann) is out of his league.

[clb555239]

I love Hartman's reaction at 2:27

Medved owns!

[Piglatinsuperstar]

medvid aint shit! he cant even answer why the preublican logo is satanic becuz he's afraid to. he just steer s around the question like your typical republican. he saying he doesnt approve of taxpayer money for the public good of his own people but he got no problem thrwoing it away on Iraq

[Piglatinsuperstar]

medvid aint shit. his scrawny voice makes me sick and he cant even answer a question about the republican logo becuz he dont want to come straight out ans admit republicans heads worship satan. See how he brushed it off using humour? I'm sick of him saying he resents taxpayer money for our public good but he got no problem throwing it awy on Iraq but you know he dont want to talk about that. He said he was embarrassed about some things bush did but he dont say what. Tom did but Mike don't.

[clb555239]

You are just as messed up as Hartman. Are you seriously saying that the republican logo is Satanic??? Be real! Not even the most liberal nutcase would believe that ass-backwards conspiracy. The reason Medved did not even BOTHER to respond is because it was such an outragously irrational and unprecedented comment that was totally irrelevant tot he discussion of health care. Michael Medved is a formidable and extremely knowledgeable debator. This debate proves it.

[Piglatinsuperstar]

yeah whatever. mike's a loser like the rest of the conservative party stuck in the dark ages, trying to hold the country back. as if they had any power left.

mike's decent debater but Tom and Mr. Kay busted him good trying to blame Obama for something bush did. he just doesnt show his embarrasment in public. what's the real reason people mike dont want the rest of us getting public health care. i'm going to do as tom suggested and phone my senator to tell them I want in on the single payer

[thinkingrationally]

Hartman has the chance to ask a poignant question of Medved and he asks why they changed the logo of the GOP??? What a jackass!! Proves how nutty and mentally ill he is!

[JustCamus]

In a debate setting, I really think it's a mistake to ask a question like that, and I'm a big fan of Hartmann's.

Trust me that he's a very intelligent man, though; I listen to his radio show often. If I called him & criticized that question, I wouldn't be surprised if he admitted regret.

At the same time, he did mention that it was the only question he didn't have an answer to.

Besides the goofy question and mistakes on classical music & art, his smarts & compassion were delivered well.

[cr3w2007]

Hartmann's statement that we should not regulate whether people can grow certain plants in their own yards is a little absurd. Forget marijuana. Opium, cocaine, psilocybin mushrooms...I'm not sure I agree access to drugs much more potent and much more dangerous than marijuana should go completely unregulated just because it can grow in your backyard.

[slicerdag]

I would assert that his "struggle" as you put it, is derived from his inability to continue to come up with the party lines on what should be done. I find it interesting how those who have (I do have, but not at the level of Michael) can deny those who are attempting to attain the basic justices that they take advantage of. It is hard to remember what to say when you really don't believe in it, especially if you were in the postition to need it.

[lisabob22]

Medved doesn't answer questions well does he?

[manicmetropolis]

he does seem to be struggling