The oil producing provinces should create an economic block like OPEC. We have oil and the world wants it. Why sell ourselves short? If there is a demand, they will buy it at a "fair" price. Read this article from the Globe and Mail, it lays it out the issues.
@IkanBme Now please be quiet; enjoy your paid sick days, EDOs, paid vacation, stress leave, taxpayer-funded defined benefit pension, and overtime, and please try to not waste any more of my tax money.
@IkanBme "your" = you're. "refered" = referred. You don't pay taxes, you simply give some of it back. You do not determine your value, the voting taxpayer does. You do not decide what duties to perform at work; the government does. You do not advance based on merit, but on your union's decision. If you're unsatisfied with these terms, you chose the wrong career.
@IkanBme You entered into your career knowing full well you would be reliant on the voting taxpayer, so why are you complaining? If you sincerely want personal gain and more money, your current dissatisfaction would best be quelled by joining the private accountable sector and then exhibiting some merit. A "health" employee is indeed not a real, accountable job inasmuch as you are at the mercy of the taxpayer, owned by the gov't and your union, and advancement is limited. But you knew that.
@IkanBme "your" = "you're". I have trouble believing you are an educated person, judging by your poor English skills. If English is your second language, I apologize, and respect your efforts. Back on topic: your decision to embark on a career in the "health care field" was a poor one, judging from your dissatisfaction. Your paycheque and its value are 100% determinant on your ability to convince the taxpayer of your worth.
Privatization is not always more efficient. Just look at the U.S. companies in Iraq. They stole BILLIONS and did sub-standard word. In privatitzation all the wealth flows to the owners/CEO's. They provide lousy paying jobs with crappy benefits. Employees then don't give a crap and your service is worse than before. They privatized the hospital services in Victoria and now they have ex-criminals mopping the floors cause no one else will do it for $10/hour. The place is filthy now.
@habrass Yeah, well my uncle's dog's brother said that beer is MUCH cheaper in Alberta, and their liquor revenues are higher per capita than Saskatchewan's. The only difference is they don't have unionized overpaid shelf-stockers earning $55,000 a year. Also the ponzi scheme is ending; taxpayer-funded defined benefits will only last about another 15-20 years for government employees, all of whom have BETTER pensions, benefits, security etc than anyone else. Privatize away, Mr Wall.
No one is goinf to privatize anything major in their first term. Would be a rookie mistake. The blood bath will begin after November. What really bothers me is that the infrastructure for many of these crowns was funded by taxpayers when no one was interested in providing utilities to our small populations. They will be sold off below fair value to political cronies. How is adding a profit margin going to make our utilities cheaper? Giving a monopoly to a private company.
@habrass Sask people have discovered that the private sector will always deliver goods & services cheaper than the overpaid, unionized, taxpayer-pensioned, sickdayed, overholidayed government bureaucrat. Regardless, I agree that both Wall and Lingenfelter are members of the illuminati and will sell our hospitals to robots and make our water flow uphill to Alberta who will sell it to the Americans for pennies. So beware!
@habrass One would think that keeping 146 of 150 promises made in the last election would be enough to quell the "selling the crowns" argument. Sadly, for you, the only people actually talking about this argument are you, me, and IKanBme.
@IkanBme Why don't you get a real accountable job in the private sector where you can advance on merit -- not be subjugated to the confines of socialism -- and make as much progress as you want? Could it be because union jobs are easier? And pay more, for less effort and accountability? Could it because industrious ingenuitive people work in the real world, while less ambitious people simply vote NDP and join a union?
@IkanBme I think I already mentioned that the services that are deemed essential are chosen by the union. Evidently, your union thinks that your job is necessary to keep the workplace running.
@IkanBme Nothing in the above statement is true or can be substantiated with proof. This is a non issue and no one is buying this garbage. Try as you might, the sell the crowns debate is completely dead.
@IkanBme Also both Wall and Lingenfelter are members of the illuminati and will sell our hospitals to robots and make our water flow uphill to Alberta who will sell it to the Americans for pennies. Also dozens of aliens probed IkanBme and survey says he is a descendent of Tommy Douglas and a coffee-drinking sweatpants-wearing union moneysucker.
So resource revenues aren't relevant? Of course they are going to win, I don't dispute that. All I'm saying is that we will regret it. They are cut from the same cloth as the last batch of gangsters. They're just much better at the racketeering. They are slick and polished and can sell our "prosperity" quite well. Historically Tory governments run up debt and do not benefit average people.
@habrass I hear what you're saying, but disagree completely. Resource revenues are important: so important that jacking up the royalties is a huge mistake. They're already the highest in the world! If increased any more, investment would cease, and we'll be left behind with a commodity-based economy in free-fall. My previous comment was about Brad Wall's MA job in the Devine government.
@LanceFarrow Do you have a source for the comment about our royalties being the highest? I heard Alberta is much higher than we are. People are sometimes naive about giving away non-renewable natural resources. It creates short term prosperity, but when it runs out then what? Not to mention mining and oil companies are notorious for leaving behind huge environmental disasters that the tax payer pays to clean up.
@habrass Comparitively, we have the highest. We charge 5% of the net profit from most resources, and 10% when we've hit lifetime production thresholds. Most other countries and locales (other than NWT, which needs high rates) charge between 1-5% of the commodity's price. These numbers are from the world bank.
@LanceFarrow Do you have a source for the comment about our royalties being the highest? I heard Alberta is much higher than we are. People are sometimes naive about giving away non-renewable natural resources. It creates short term prosperity, but when it runs out then what? Not to mention mining and oil companies are notorious for leaving behind huge environmental disasters that the tax payer pays to clean up.
@LanceFarrow In the UN paper "Using non-renewable resource revenues for sustainable local development" states: "Better addressing the environmental and social costs of extractive activities in host communities remains a critical challenge. Many experts agree that a greater part of the resource revenues needs to be directed to addressing the depletion of environmental wealth of host communities
@LanceFarrow In the UN paper "Using non-renewable resource revenues for sustainable local development" states: "Better addressing the environmental and social costs of extractive activities in host communities remains a critical challenge. Many experts agree that a greater part of the resource revenues needs to be directed to addressing the depletion of environmental wealth of host communities
@LanceFarrow (e.g. projects need to consider not only building schools but tackling land degradation, oil spills, etc.). Revenue-sharing schemes often tend to redistribute revenues over wider communities than those directly affected, which can lead to perceptions of unfairness if the environmental costs are not addressed by a separate mechanism.
@LanceFarrow (e.g. projects need to consider not only building schools but tackling land degradation, oil spills, etc.). Revenue-sharing schemes often tend to redistribute revenues over wider communities than those directly affected, which can lead to perceptions of unfairness if the environmental costs are not addressed by a separate mechanism.
@LanceFarrow In order to make a difference to development outcomes, revenues from natural resources need to be able to generate additional and sustainable incomes, beginning with replacing income sources or opportunities that have been destroyed by the mining activities such as farming and fishing. Projects which create links between mineral extraction and the local economy are very important in that context.
@habrass The NDP is hoping resource revenues continue to be a these levels, which would cease if a royalty increase was implemented. At least the Sask Party understands that the prices we're at right now may not last, since they had to manage that very situation two years ago. Ideals are one thing, but these resource revenues are, in fact, being put back into communities through construction, healthcare, and economic stabilization. Increasing royalties puts these items in jeopardy.
Wasn't Brad Wall an assistant to Grant Devine when they robbed our province?!? We still owe $3 billion for that ($15 billion originally). The NDP paid off most of THAT debt. Now they are giving away all of our resources losing $billions. People will rue the day they re-elect these guys. This term the real blood bath and agenda will unfold.
@habrass Thanks for dragging this rotting horse carcass into the comments section and for supplying bats for us to beat it with. And thanks for giving your prediction on how the election is going to turn out!
@IkanBme I choose my words carefully, and try to present my point of view. Don't splice my words together to try and prove yours please. As I wrote earlier, I'm trying to have an intelligent argument here with you, a person who clearly understands the point of view from unions. You taking my words out of context just bogs down our discussion.
@IkanBme You're mixing my statements. My first was about Bill 80, which allows workers to unionize with whichever union they see fit, and not the handful that the government and overseeing union bodies had predetermined before the Bill was legislated into law. This is written in the Trade Union Act, and can be found rather easily. I can't possibly make that up, because it is written in law.
Initially, this was a bash fest on the Sask Party, so I jumped in and threw some jabs. Once we began talking about the issues surrounding essential services, the tone changed. Negotiations with unions is a sticky issue, with two parties with diametrically opposed viewpoints. You're giving your piece, and I'm simply giving mine. If you think that I'm disrespecting you by disagreeing with you, then you are mistaken.
@IkanBme On to your point about reasonable negotiations. The government (which is a mix of PC's and Liberals) would much rather have everything dealt at the table. No government likes settling contracts during work stoppages. However, this term of governance has proven that both sides must concede points if agreements are to be reached. Sometimes the unions conceded, sometimes the government did. Arbitration happened at some points as well. Which specific union issues are you referring to?
@IkanBme Certain does not mean half. "Half stay behind" are your words, not mine. It's not a violation of human rights, because the unions have the authority to determine which workers are deemed essential. Under this structure, half the workers staying behind would be impractical. The right to strike is still there, I'm pretty sure. The right to peacefully assemble is still there, as well.
@IkanBme Essential services ensures that there is someone there during a work stoppage. This legislation brings us up to code with the rest of the country. Even Manitoba - an NDP-governed province - has this. This is not a bad thing, and modernizes Saskatchewan's ancient labour legislation. Explain to me why it's bad to have written in law that during a strike certain employees that stay behind to keep people safe?
@IkanBme Nurses work hard, and my friends who are nurses always say so. They care, which is inherently why they get into nursing. It's when people's lives are in the balance and they're being cared for by nurses who are prepared to leave them hanging for a better contract or to not be labeled a scab that I have a problem with.
@IkanBme Brad Wall is the most popular leader in Canada. Link stinks. Socialism and unions suck; that's why only government coffee-drinkers are unonized. Goodbye.
The only thing that's corrupting our province is the negativity of a select few. More work than ever before, more money after taxes than ever before, and a better economic situation than anywhere else in Canada. Yea, Wall is really screwing this place up... I'm looking at you IkanBme!
@IkanBme Bill 80 actually opens up the union climate by ridding the monopoly held by only a handful of unions. In fact, it gives workers more rights, such as, the right to unionize with any union they see fit.
Essential services was enacted in 2007 because unionized nurses working in the cancer centre were set to strike, which isn't fair to those who need treatment. Those deemed Essential go back to work. No reason to get bent out of shape.
where were the sask party for the last four years our highway have gotten way worse. what people don't see is they maybe spending more on highways then ever before but they aren't getting what they paid for. just cause you spend more doesn't make you smart. it means you likely got taken
The NDP are the worst government in Saskatchewan's history. Brad Wall and the Sask Party are the most POPULAR party in Saskatchewan's history. Nobody likes the NDP because their policies are backwards. Thanks for stopping by!
evilsaskndp you are a fool and obviously a brown nosing piece of garbage. you think we aren't going to fight and things aren't over til the fat lady sings. i just hope people aren't as foolish as you come election time go team orange
Judy how's unemployment
hardyseeds 3 months ago
@IkanBme You're right; that explains why Sask people leave under the Sask Party, but come here in droves under the NDP.
Wait a second..
evilsaskndp 4 months ago
@IkanBme it's = its. disburst = disbursed. You are definitely an NDP supporter. Enjoy your union.
evilsaskndp 4 months ago
This article is in response to the glories of privatizing the liquor board stores. Go to
wwwpolicyalternativesca and type a search for liquor privatization.
habrass 4 months ago
Wouldn't let me post it. The article is alberta-royalty-cuts-set-a-dangerous-precedent
habrass 4 months ago
Wouldn't let me post it.
habrass 4 months ago
The oil producing provinces should create an economic block like OPEC. We have oil and the world wants it. Why sell ourselves short? If there is a demand, they will buy it at a "fair" price. Read this article from the Globe and Mail, it lays it out the issues.
habrass 4 months ago
@IkanBme Now please be quiet; enjoy your paid sick days, EDOs, paid vacation, stress leave, taxpayer-funded defined benefit pension, and overtime, and please try to not waste any more of my tax money.
evilsaskndp 4 months ago
@IkanBme "your" = you're. "refered" = referred. You don't pay taxes, you simply give some of it back. You do not determine your value, the voting taxpayer does. You do not decide what duties to perform at work; the government does. You do not advance based on merit, but on your union's decision. If you're unsatisfied with these terms, you chose the wrong career.
evilsaskndp 4 months ago
@IkanBme Can none of these NDP'ers use proper grammar/spelling? "loose" = 'lose'. A distinction exists between the two.
Never again will overpaid coffee drinkers risk the shutdown of a public hospital. Essential services legislation is here to stay. Forever.
Resources: the NDP will not "protect" our resources any more than simply handing the fruits of its labour to our First Nations people.
evilsaskndp 4 months ago
@IkanBme You entered into your career knowing full well you would be reliant on the voting taxpayer, so why are you complaining? If you sincerely want personal gain and more money, your current dissatisfaction would best be quelled by joining the private accountable sector and then exhibiting some merit. A "health" employee is indeed not a real, accountable job inasmuch as you are at the mercy of the taxpayer, owned by the gov't and your union, and advancement is limited. But you knew that.
evilsaskndp 4 months ago
@IkanBme "your" = "you're". I have trouble believing you are an educated person, judging by your poor English skills. If English is your second language, I apologize, and respect your efforts. Back on topic: your decision to embark on a career in the "health care field" was a poor one, judging from your dissatisfaction. Your paycheque and its value are 100% determinant on your ability to convince the taxpayer of your worth.
evilsaskndp 4 months ago
Privatization is not always more efficient. Just look at the U.S. companies in Iraq. They stole BILLIONS and did sub-standard word. In privatitzation all the wealth flows to the owners/CEO's. They provide lousy paying jobs with crappy benefits. Employees then don't give a crap and your service is worse than before. They privatized the hospital services in Victoria and now they have ex-criminals mopping the floors cause no one else will do it for $10/hour. The place is filthy now.
habrass 4 months ago
@habrass Yeah, well my uncle's dog's brother said that beer is MUCH cheaper in Alberta, and their liquor revenues are higher per capita than Saskatchewan's. The only difference is they don't have unionized overpaid shelf-stockers earning $55,000 a year. Also the ponzi scheme is ending; taxpayer-funded defined benefits will only last about another 15-20 years for government employees, all of whom have BETTER pensions, benefits, security etc than anyone else. Privatize away, Mr Wall.
evilsaskndp 4 months ago
No one is goinf to privatize anything major in their first term. Would be a rookie mistake. The blood bath will begin after November. What really bothers me is that the infrastructure for many of these crowns was funded by taxpayers when no one was interested in providing utilities to our small populations. They will be sold off below fair value to political cronies. How is adding a profit margin going to make our utilities cheaper? Giving a monopoly to a private company.
habrass 4 months ago
@habrass Sask people have discovered that the private sector will always deliver goods & services cheaper than the overpaid, unionized, taxpayer-pensioned, sickdayed, overholidayed government bureaucrat. Regardless, I agree that both Wall and Lingenfelter are members of the illuminati and will sell our hospitals to robots and make our water flow uphill to Alberta who will sell it to the Americans for pennies. So beware!
evilsaskndp 4 months ago
@habrass One would think that keeping 146 of 150 promises made in the last election would be enough to quell the "selling the crowns" argument. Sadly, for you, the only people actually talking about this argument are you, me, and IKanBme.
LanceFarrow 4 months ago
@IkanBme Why don't you get a real accountable job in the private sector where you can advance on merit -- not be subjugated to the confines of socialism -- and make as much progress as you want? Could it be because union jobs are easier? And pay more, for less effort and accountability? Could it because industrious ingenuitive people work in the real world, while less ambitious people simply vote NDP and join a union?
evilsaskndp 4 months ago
@IkanBme I think I already mentioned that the services that are deemed essential are chosen by the union. Evidently, your union thinks that your job is necessary to keep the workplace running.
LanceFarrow 4 months ago
@IkanBme We are discussing provincial politics; you are talking about federal. Please remove your tinfoil hat.
evilsaskndp 4 months ago
@IkanBme Nothing in the above statement is true or can be substantiated with proof. This is a non issue and no one is buying this garbage. Try as you might, the sell the crowns debate is completely dead.
LanceFarrow 4 months ago
@IkanBme Also both Wall and Lingenfelter are members of the illuminati and will sell our hospitals to robots and make our water flow uphill to Alberta who will sell it to the Americans for pennies. Also dozens of aliens probed IkanBme and survey says he is a descendent of Tommy Douglas and a coffee-drinking sweatpants-wearing union moneysucker.
evilsaskndp 4 months ago
So resource revenues aren't relevant? Of course they are going to win, I don't dispute that. All I'm saying is that we will regret it. They are cut from the same cloth as the last batch of gangsters. They're just much better at the racketeering. They are slick and polished and can sell our "prosperity" quite well. Historically Tory governments run up debt and do not benefit average people.
habrass 4 months ago
@habrass I hear what you're saying, but disagree completely. Resource revenues are important: so important that jacking up the royalties is a huge mistake. They're already the highest in the world! If increased any more, investment would cease, and we'll be left behind with a commodity-based economy in free-fall. My previous comment was about Brad Wall's MA job in the Devine government.
LanceFarrow 4 months ago
@LanceFarrow Do you have a source for the comment about our royalties being the highest? I heard Alberta is much higher than we are. People are sometimes naive about giving away non-renewable natural resources. It creates short term prosperity, but when it runs out then what? Not to mention mining and oil companies are notorious for leaving behind huge environmental disasters that the tax payer pays to clean up.
habrass 4 months ago
@habrass Comparitively, we have the highest. We charge 5% of the net profit from most resources, and 10% when we've hit lifetime production thresholds. Most other countries and locales (other than NWT, which needs high rates) charge between 1-5% of the commodity's price. These numbers are from the world bank.
LanceFarrow 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@LanceFarrow Do you have a source for the comment about our royalties being the highest? I heard Alberta is much higher than we are. People are sometimes naive about giving away non-renewable natural resources. It creates short term prosperity, but when it runs out then what? Not to mention mining and oil companies are notorious for leaving behind huge environmental disasters that the tax payer pays to clean up.
habrass 4 months ago
@LanceFarrow In the UN paper "Using non-renewable resource revenues for sustainable local development" states: "Better addressing the environmental and social costs of extractive activities in host communities remains a critical challenge. Many experts agree that a greater part of the resource revenues needs to be directed to addressing the depletion of environmental wealth of host communities
habrass 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@LanceFarrow In the UN paper "Using non-renewable resource revenues for sustainable local development" states: "Better addressing the environmental and social costs of extractive activities in host communities remains a critical challenge. Many experts agree that a greater part of the resource revenues needs to be directed to addressing the depletion of environmental wealth of host communities
habrass 4 months ago
@LanceFarrow (e.g. projects need to consider not only building schools but tackling land degradation, oil spills, etc.). Revenue-sharing schemes often tend to redistribute revenues over wider communities than those directly affected, which can lead to perceptions of unfairness if the environmental costs are not addressed by a separate mechanism.
habrass 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@LanceFarrow (e.g. projects need to consider not only building schools but tackling land degradation, oil spills, etc.). Revenue-sharing schemes often tend to redistribute revenues over wider communities than those directly affected, which can lead to perceptions of unfairness if the environmental costs are not addressed by a separate mechanism.
habrass 4 months ago
@LanceFarrow In order to make a difference to development outcomes, revenues from natural resources need to be able to generate additional and sustainable incomes, beginning with replacing income sources or opportunities that have been destroyed by the mining activities such as farming and fishing. Projects which create links between mineral extraction and the local economy are very important in that context.
habrass 4 months ago
@habrass The NDP is hoping resource revenues continue to be a these levels, which would cease if a royalty increase was implemented. At least the Sask Party understands that the prices we're at right now may not last, since they had to manage that very situation two years ago. Ideals are one thing, but these resource revenues are, in fact, being put back into communities through construction, healthcare, and economic stabilization. Increasing royalties puts these items in jeopardy.
LanceFarrow 4 months ago
Wasn't Brad Wall an assistant to Grant Devine when they robbed our province?!? We still owe $3 billion for that ($15 billion originally). The NDP paid off most of THAT debt. Now they are giving away all of our resources losing $billions. People will rue the day they re-elect these guys. This term the real blood bath and agenda will unfold.
habrass 4 months ago
@habrass Thanks for dragging this rotting horse carcass into the comments section and for supplying bats for us to beat it with. And thanks for giving your prediction on how the election is going to turn out!
LanceFarrow 4 months ago
@IkanBme I choose my words carefully, and try to present my point of view. Don't splice my words together to try and prove yours please. As I wrote earlier, I'm trying to have an intelligent argument here with you, a person who clearly understands the point of view from unions. You taking my words out of context just bogs down our discussion.
LanceFarrow 4 months ago
@IkanBme You're mixing my statements. My first was about Bill 80, which allows workers to unionize with whichever union they see fit, and not the handful that the government and overseeing union bodies had predetermined before the Bill was legislated into law. This is written in the Trade Union Act, and can be found rather easily. I can't possibly make that up, because it is written in law.
LanceFarrow 4 months ago
Initially, this was a bash fest on the Sask Party, so I jumped in and threw some jabs. Once we began talking about the issues surrounding essential services, the tone changed. Negotiations with unions is a sticky issue, with two parties with diametrically opposed viewpoints. You're giving your piece, and I'm simply giving mine. If you think that I'm disrespecting you by disagreeing with you, then you are mistaken.
LanceFarrow 4 months ago
@IkanBme On to your point about reasonable negotiations. The government (which is a mix of PC's and Liberals) would much rather have everything dealt at the table. No government likes settling contracts during work stoppages. However, this term of governance has proven that both sides must concede points if agreements are to be reached. Sometimes the unions conceded, sometimes the government did. Arbitration happened at some points as well. Which specific union issues are you referring to?
LanceFarrow 4 months ago
@IkanBme Certain does not mean half. "Half stay behind" are your words, not mine. It's not a violation of human rights, because the unions have the authority to determine which workers are deemed essential. Under this structure, half the workers staying behind would be impractical. The right to strike is still there, I'm pretty sure. The right to peacefully assemble is still there, as well.
LanceFarrow 4 months ago
@IkanBme Essential services ensures that there is someone there during a work stoppage. This legislation brings us up to code with the rest of the country. Even Manitoba - an NDP-governed province - has this. This is not a bad thing, and modernizes Saskatchewan's ancient labour legislation. Explain to me why it's bad to have written in law that during a strike certain employees that stay behind to keep people safe?
LanceFarrow 4 months ago
@IkanBme Nurses work hard, and my friends who are nurses always say so. They care, which is inherently why they get into nursing. It's when people's lives are in the balance and they're being cared for by nurses who are prepared to leave them hanging for a better contract or to not be labeled a scab that I have a problem with.
LanceFarrow 4 months ago
@IkanBme Brad Wall PLEASES 78% of this province! Only 18% like Lingenfalter, haha! DO the math! GOOD-BYE NDP!!
evilsaskndp 4 months ago
@IkanBme Brad Wall is the most popular leader in Canada. Link stinks. Socialism and unions suck; that's why only government coffee-drinkers are unonized. Goodbye.
evilsaskndp 4 months ago
The only thing that's corrupting our province is the negativity of a select few. More work than ever before, more money after taxes than ever before, and a better economic situation than anywhere else in Canada. Yea, Wall is really screwing this place up... I'm looking at you IkanBme!
LanceFarrow 4 months ago
@IkanBme Bill 80 actually opens up the union climate by ridding the monopoly held by only a handful of unions. In fact, it gives workers more rights, such as, the right to unionize with any union they see fit.
Essential services was enacted in 2007 because unionized nurses working in the cancer centre were set to strike, which isn't fair to those who need treatment. Those deemed Essential go back to work. No reason to get bent out of shape.
LanceFarrow 4 months ago
typical sask party member weak and in denial. if you keep your head buried in the sand it didn't happen lol. you are joke just like your party
mmmford 4 months ago
where were the sask party for the last four years our highway have gotten way worse. what people don't see is they maybe spending more on highways then ever before but they aren't getting what they paid for. just cause you spend more doesn't make you smart. it means you likely got taken
mmmford 4 months ago
@mmmford Sask Party has paved more highways than any other gov't in Sask's HISTORY:
joconl.com/article/id43657
Now be gone.
evilsaskndp 4 months ago
The NDP are the worst government in Saskatchewan's history. Brad Wall and the Sask Party are the most POPULAR party in Saskatchewan's history. Nobody likes the NDP because their policies are backwards. Thanks for stopping by!
evilsaskndp 4 months ago
evilsaskndp you are a fool and obviously a brown nosing piece of garbage. you think we aren't going to fight and things aren't over til the fat lady sings. i just hope people aren't as foolish as you come election time go team orange
mmmford 4 months ago