James MacDonald on Songs They Don't Sing at His Church

[saintoccasionally]

Does this mean he can't sing "I care enough about the gospel to avoid endorsing an open heretic"?

[jennikeast]

Part 2 response (coun't) ...This is called the "sacrifice of praise" and when we offer that sacrifice, invariably we will "mean" what we're singing (experience the accompanying feelings of what we know in our hearts to be true). It's also called "faith", i.e. "calling those things that be not as though they were." More important, this "sacrifice of praise" pleases Jesus--just as it pleased Him when Abraham offered his sacrifice that we all know he didn't "mean", i.e., "want" to do at the time.

[jennikeast]

Part I response: Just because we may not "feel" like we mean a particular truth, doesn't mean that we don't declare it anyway. When this earth has passed away and we're in the presence of Jesus 24/7 then we will ALWAYS "mean" what we say or sing because we will no longer have the enemy of our souls feeding us lies about what is true and what is not. But until that day, we NEED to declare what our flesh may not want to declare, what our minds tell us we don't "mean" at a particular moment ...

[mlands100]

I really agree with his thinking here! I am in school to be a pastor, and i am totally on his side!!!

[GMDtwo]

I can understand what he means but... I disagree with this.

[longhornchad2000]

I mean... I get it. But I don't agree with it. Those songs aren't about "us" they're about our relationship with God... Plus like as a christian I say things people could say I don't mean because I don't always do them, I'm a hypocrite. If I wasn't, Jesus wouldn't have had to come and die.

[thelastlonesurvivor]

Umm actually we are in a romantic relationship with Jesus.. Not a lustful, earthly type but a heavenly and holy pure type. The Bible says that the Church is the BRIDE of Christ.. Haha that actually takes it up from being a boyfriend to us being his wife.. Read your Bible.

[awat7]

Well James, I guess you don't like Isaiah 40:31...Isaiah is so selfish. Or many of the Psalms for that matter..."how long, oh Lord? How long will you forget me..." real nice, David...so selfish...

[JairoNamnun]

@awat7 Well you know, not all songs were meant for congregational worship. And I'm guessing he's not saying he'll never hear those songs, just that they don't sing it in corporate worship. I don't think Psalm 88, for example, was meant to be sung for the church.

[awat7]

@JairoNamnun I hear you...and I think that James is doing all he can to fight for the bride. Whether the church is supposed to sing something as a congregation is a slippery slope. What scripture sets the boundaries for that?

None. Anything that speaks of the need of mankind and the fullness of God (Jesus as savior, Holy Spirit as the seal and helper, etc) should be appropriate for the church. By the way...David wasn't writing music for the sunday morning service anyway.

[MrOhjames]

I disagree with His view on the "Jesus is my boyfriend" songs. We sing those songs to lift God up and let Him know He is those things to us and to tell Him We long for His presence. It is about Him and His glory. I believe He loves to hear us long for Him. Very biblical. Our hearts must be in the right place when We sing that.

[philosophy7575]

With respect to "My Jesus I love Thee", "If ever I love Thee, my Jesus tis now" need not be interpreted as "now in the moment of this verse". It may be interpreted as "now in this stage in my life", or, "now that I have repented of this sin". "Now" is a very flexible word.

[joshuag73]

@philosophy7575 Good to see a thoughtful response in defense of another man's expression of praise. I suppose that saying those things in the face of the people that wrote them would be much different as they could share what they were going through. But on his side, there are songs that do not belong in church.

[TrueInnovator159]

@BrothaJohn11 Yea, right. You too, take care and God bless.

[TrueInnovator159]

@BrothaJohn11 Right, right. Well I know people who don't go to certain churches because of the music they play in church, and you know what, that's their personal issues, not that I have anything against that. I see where you are coming from but I believe you rubbed off on people the wrong way. If you don't agree with Pastor MacDonald's worship team's way of choosing music to play in their services, then that's fine, just try not judge a man who's spreading the gospel of the Lord. Take care. :)

[TrueInnovator159]

@BrothaJohn11 You've chosen the wrong scripture sir to justify your actions. If you read the whole chap. of 1Cor 14 you'll see that it is speaking about prophecy & how their should be an interpreter & that 1 "person" should judge the meaning of the prophecy carefully. Its not talking about being a judge toward another person. We can't judge the heart, we can only judge the actions of an individual, that's it. As far as I'm concerned MacDonald has done NOTHING wrong & is bring people to the Lord.

[TrueInnovator159]

@BrothaJohn11 You've have completely taken what Pastor James MacDonald has said out of absolute context. You need to be careful in which the manner that you are judging a fellow brother in Christ sir because only the Lord can judge the heart. I believe you're completely misinterpreting what he's saying. And as far as I'm concerned, his ministry is actually bringing people to the Lord and is spreading the gospel of Jesus Christ. What have you done lately other than criticize?

[rwleif]

@BrothaJohn11 I'm not disputing that, I'm saying that James MacDonald never compromised Biblical truth in his choice of music.

[rwleif]

@BrothaJohn11 So who watered anything down? all he wanted was not to have people sing like they were in a better state than they actualy were.

[blessedtosew]

Great food for thought, James! I really like your reasoning - you make so much sense to me! Thanks for your thoughtful perspective! You always challenge me towards right thinking!

[JCMySoulsBoast]

hmm...there are songs that I don't like..simply because they dont make sense or their really "wordy" or whatever..but I have to point out that the psalms of David and all the psalms really, which we could say are songs because they were most often put to music, were sometimes all about God, and sometimes they were just declarations of love and respect and honor for God, they were sometimes prayers to God petitions, they varied really. I think that it is the same today with modern day psalms.

[ILOVEISRAELIS]

Amen, James! Same thing when the worship leaders do too much coaching of the congregation (not "audience" - Jesus is the Audience!) I went to churches before that had a worship leader told the congregation to raise up their hands. I do raise my hands some times, when I FEEL it. But when I'm TOLD to do it, it shatters the urge to do it. Makes me feel like I'm some sort of puppet that the worship leader is holding the strings.

[benb4770]

There are so many issues today attacking the Church and this is not one of them. Those words may mean that to you but not to many others. I suggest if they bother you then dont sing them and let those who do believe them worship the Lord.

[Angel52462]

I have to disagree with him about the comment of being in love with the Lord. Of course you can be in love with Him. It has nothing to do with romantic love. It's a love that goes beyond loving...when someone becomes the center of your life and occupies your every thought and feeling. It's a love that transcends human understanding. When you know Him, there is no other way to love Him.

[Padrenoe]

So glad to hear a respected, Christian pastor take a stand against some well-known and popular songs that I have also been uncomfortable with for years now.

[Rawk4Life]

I have to humbly disagree with James MacDonald. It's rather legalistic to assume that worship songs that are sung in the first person are "selfish" songs. When you sing songs of praise, it's between you and the Lord. In the song "Draw Me Close to You," it would not make sense to say "Draw others close to You, never let them go. They lay it all down again, to hear You say that You're their friend. You do not sing worship songs on behalf of other people.

[farisa2020]

@Rawk4Life agreed, but you know which are the songs that are written in the first person that are selfish, like "I am a champion", "I can do it" "I deserve this or that".

[SerJahPhoto]

People who think that Jesus is my boyfriend and I'm his bride to be are spiritual perverts. IMHO

[SerJahPhoto]

Very good points. Thank you, pastor James.

[allan1599]

...proportion to population growth. Deconstructing the expression of Christian Truth, because of artistic license, is folly! This man would do well to express himself with a fraction of the eloquence contained in that hymn. "I criticize by creating something better" (Michelangelo). He really doesn't sound like an improvement.

[allan1599]

This is a case study in asininity. Christ's church in North America is shrinking in prip

[yesinfact]

hmm what is more intimate, being in love or loving?

I would argue that being in love is more biblical. God does call us His bride and refer to Himself as the bride groom.

maybe Pastor Mac is just talking sifting through semantics.

[rickgigliotti]

Nice that Pastor James takes things seriously...

[Mojosbigstick]

Do they sing the old songs? You know, hymns?

[sunshinegirl1967]

Can't hear him even with the volume all the way up :(

[loveisfirstpure]

Amen! Pastor MacDonald! It really bothers me sometimes when we sing or listen to songs that are "About us" (in public worship). We need to get back to the heart of worship, which is Magnify God, not just for what He's done but for who He is!!!

[BabiG90]

so what do they sing??? Only God knows whats in the heart of man... Man lookes at the outer appeareance but God lookes at the heart. We dont know if people what they mean what they sing or not and it is not our place to judge. People tend to speak against things they dont understand. i would not try to force a congregation to not sing a song just because the Pastor dont think people mean it. you should be willing to tell the Lord in song how u feel, God desires for us to tell him our hearts.

[airkami]

@BabiG90 Singing praise and worship songs that we like is very good, but sacrificing our song choice during church to help prevent false praise and false worship is less selfish.

[Phidon]

Do note, he IS talking about congregational worship songs, that is, songs that are sung at church. There are songs were written with full intent of the words to that artist at the time, but may not be suitable for a congregational setting.

But definitely, we have a LOT of worship songs that are really about us, and that's kind of sad, and I feel like these are definitely detrimental to the church -

[Phidon]

since it makes it seem like God fits into our lives where we see fit, when in reality, we fit into God's perfect plan.

Also, some songs state things that may be downright lies that our people sing. "I love you more than life". "Though the world may fall, I'll never let you go... I will worship you until the very end." It's all about us, and our apparent faithfulness...

We love because he first loved us, and we are incapable of love apart from Him. Let's keep the focus & glory where it's due.

[Strefanash]

We christians may speak truth about God (more or less) but when it comes to ourselves we are first class liars. IOW when we say we love God but treat our neighbours and brethren like dirt, well, this is an outright lie.

I dont reject "Jesus is my boyfriend" songs as they are about us, but as they express an erotism that is blasphemous: for women it is adulterous, for men it is homoerotic. And God forbids it all IMO

BTW I dont sing in church AT ALL.

[jrmds2108]

if I am to be HIS bride then surely I would have to be "in love" as a "boyfriend"???? I agree with cinnyminnie that songs are to be taken as a "whole" and a way of expressing. As for "I will soar WITH you" isn't that a desire of my heart for how it WILL be when I am truly walking with HIM and acknowledging that is of HIM and not of me .

An outstanding expositor of God;s word...this pharasaical approach not his best to date..

[cinnyminnie]

I agree with him, but not 100%. I don't think "My Jesus I love Thee" has progressive/increasing levels of of love for Jesus. The song is a poem and it's just how the author ends each verse. In terms of "forcing," although everyone has an option to sing or not, most people don't put that much thought into what they're singing-whatever's on the program-they sing. On another note, a church I went to wouldn't sing songs that were really short, like Agnus Dei for example. The pastor thought you'd h

[awaitthegroom]

amen amen amen - this is so encouraging to find someone else who believes this is important- I dont sing songs which call Jesus a hero or champion- they are man titles which belittle His Glory. I also dont like songs that express the law as being over and done with because its not. Amen to singing about Gods attibutes and not me - Im so glad to have seen this video

[LysesPieces]

haha i totally get that! my church stays away from the "Jesus is my boyfriend" songs too. I just think you have to be careful about singing things like that because then you are so much looking for the feeling of love and the spirit that it's almost like a lust relationship with God, only looking to satisfy your feelings and desires from day to day instead of making Him the center. That used to be my entire outlook, but I can't say you'll ever see the true holiness of God if your focus is "me"

[chapinas80]

I totally understand what he's talking about! As a worship leader, I know what he's saying.

[CalebNelson64]

I love jesus! I LOVE JESUS! I would hate to not be in love with him! There would be no point in this at all! And no matter what you sing someone is not going to mean what there singing! We can not please everyone, Sorry it does not work that way! And though i agree most people do not pray for brokenness and do not mean it, But what about those that do? We should all to be broken for God! We need to start singing because thats what God wants! Not so we can make people feel better about themselfs

[bradmorris67]

2:10 "Jesus is my boyfriend songs" - well put brother! Hate all that soppy lovey-dovey stuff

[djhanashiro]

As a worship leader and a disciple of Christ, you can never please every person in church on the songs you sing, If people don't want to sing, they need to get over themselves and worship God. "Psalm 149:5 Let the saints be joyful in glory; Let them sing aloud on their beds." "Psalm 100:1 Make a joyful noise unto the LORD, all ye lands." There are some songs I don't agree with. For songs that draw attention to us using I and me, last i remember reading Psalms there were many I's and Me's.

[awaitthegroom]

@djhanashiro but Psalms are Biblical- in our church we sing only Psalms and unaccompanied. Its an old tradition which I struggled with at first but does focus on Jesus Christ in the word alone. I still listen to other hymns etc out of church. They also used to carry the Bible up the middle every week but it stopped- sad as that was a very honorable gesture

[cmccanna]

He is simply stating that the chuch he founded (Harvest) is to direct its time of worship (during the service) towards God rather than an overemphasis on the individual. It's good to hear he is paying attention to the messages being presented in the music. I agree with James.

[Segenmax]

Wow, my respect level for his teaching just dropped a little bit. I understand and agree with much of what he's saying here, but much of it also seems to be quite absurd. Are you kidding me about the first song? "My Jesus, 'tis now"? Like each verse is a different level!! HAHA!! It's using different verses to list ALL the reasons I love Him now! Much of the reason we sing in church is to bring people to the place where they mean what they sing!!! And who's "forcing" anyone to sing? My, my.

[LysesPieces]

@Segenmax it's not about "forcing" but the fact that many come into church, sit in the seat, and, when worship time comes, they rise and sing the words and clap or lift their hands in the appropriate places. It's not like anyone's "forcing" them, but they are pressed upon to sing words to a mighty God who is, in fact, listening, and knows their heart as they sing. He's not discrediting the song, he's just admitting that some are not ready for the implications.

[masterowa]

Well, going this way we could disqualify almost every single song because 'people might not be in this place'. If there is a longing for holiness there will be great desire for brokenness - these are inseparable. We would need to reject most of Psalms while following his reasoning.

Nevertheless, I agree with his third point on not singing songs suggesting Jesus is a boyfriend.

Still, his criteria for choosing a song are absurd.

[148cross]

Absurd you say but this is his opinion and he is the founder of Harvest so he can express his ideas as to how we worship in church. God Bless

[CovenantTheologian]

I havent seen the video yet, cause its broke. But I know James is right, cause he is James MacDonald...........Walk walk in the word, walk in the word.....da da dee dee da!

[nowaydudebook]

yeah....to the left to the right, uh huh, uh huh...i agree. We are blessed to have James. Please repent, you are freaking me out.

[elizstan]

Amen! Well put!