Robert, while you appear very competent in Martial Arts, this is a horrible search technique. Your subject has both hands free and could retrieve a weapon in the blink of an eye and use it on you.
My department requires that we secure both of their hands before executing a search. Not necessarily with handcuffs but at least with a finger lock. You'll never see any, "hands on the hood of the car!" stuff.
I am answering for Bob. The cursory search is our lowest level of search and is for someone from whom you don't expect any problems. We use a hands behind the head technique where we want more control. The cursory gives you more control than you would expect. It is also a technique that you can get into very quickly without his cooperation. It has saved countless officers in California and other states. You are behind him quickly and your hand goes to his waistband immediately.
@kobuto69 I just don't see the advantage of doing this over a hands behind the head technique. When I have a suspect in a proper hands-behind-the-head finger lock, I have a lot more control and I have ample warning if they try to break away or if they go for a weapon.
My question is this: using this technique when you pat over a concealed handgun and your subject knows it, what's stopping him from attacking you?
@ashleypantz Ask yourself this. When I tell them to put their fingers together, are they not warned to start their move ? What do I do then? If they go for their gun, it will take about a quarter second, for them to start shooting. You will never get your gun out in time. It is far faster to start to turn them and to get behind them. Officers who have not had much training, have been successful by simply bear hugging the suspect. Behind him, he has to get the gun out and get it pointed back.
@kobuto69 When you tell them to turn around, they have the same warning to star their move. This is why we instruct them to put their hands behind their head while we either have our weapons drawn or our hands on them. If they don't want to comply, we take them to the ground.
I don't doubt his credentials. Like I said, he appears to be a very competent martial artist.
Hands on them is the key. If we were at the level where we had our gun out, we would be putting them in the kneeling or prone. In a situation where you encounter them suddenly, it is vital that you get a hand on him and start to turn him. No time for any commands and often, no time to draw. That instinctive move to turn him and get a hand on his arm to keep him from turning into you has saved many officers. It comes from repetition.
@ashleypantz Bob Koga retired from LAPD. He is a world class martial artist and gifted at seeing how things really work in police work. He is all that he appears. I retired after 37 years from not a small department. Many of our officers have done takedowns on armed suspects from this cursory. That gap in time while you ask the suspect to do something may be fatal when you should have touched him and started to move behind. If you attended our training, I believe that a new world would open.
Robert, while you appear very competent in Martial Arts, this is a horrible search technique. Your subject has both hands free and could retrieve a weapon in the blink of an eye and use it on you.
My department requires that we secure both of their hands before executing a search. Not necessarily with handcuffs but at least with a finger lock. You'll never see any, "hands on the hood of the car!" stuff.
ashleypantz 6 months ago
@ashleypantz
I am answering for Bob. The cursory search is our lowest level of search and is for someone from whom you don't expect any problems. We use a hands behind the head technique where we want more control. The cursory gives you more control than you would expect. It is also a technique that you can get into very quickly without his cooperation. It has saved countless officers in California and other states. You are behind him quickly and your hand goes to his waistband immediately.
kobuto69 6 months ago
@kobuto69 I just don't see the advantage of doing this over a hands behind the head technique. When I have a suspect in a proper hands-behind-the-head finger lock, I have a lot more control and I have ample warning if they try to break away or if they go for a weapon.
My question is this: using this technique when you pat over a concealed handgun and your subject knows it, what's stopping him from attacking you?
ashleypantz 6 months ago
@ashleypantz Ask yourself this. When I tell them to put their fingers together, are they not warned to start their move ? What do I do then? If they go for their gun, it will take about a quarter second, for them to start shooting. You will never get your gun out in time. It is far faster to start to turn them and to get behind them. Officers who have not had much training, have been successful by simply bear hugging the suspect. Behind him, he has to get the gun out and get it pointed back.
kobuto69 6 months ago
@kobuto69 When you tell them to turn around, they have the same warning to star their move. This is why we instruct them to put their hands behind their head while we either have our weapons drawn or our hands on them. If they don't want to comply, we take them to the ground.
I don't doubt his credentials. Like I said, he appears to be a very competent martial artist.
ashleypantz 6 months ago
@ashleypantz
Hands on them is the key. If we were at the level where we had our gun out, we would be putting them in the kneeling or prone. In a situation where you encounter them suddenly, it is vital that you get a hand on him and start to turn him. No time for any commands and often, no time to draw. That instinctive move to turn him and get a hand on his arm to keep him from turning into you has saved many officers. It comes from repetition.
tacticsstudent 5 months ago
@ashleypantz Bob Koga retired from LAPD. He is a world class martial artist and gifted at seeing how things really work in police work. He is all that he appears. I retired after 37 years from not a small department. Many of our officers have done takedowns on armed suspects from this cursory. That gap in time while you ask the suspect to do something may be fatal when you should have touched him and started to move behind. If you attended our training, I believe that a new world would open.
kobuto69 6 months ago