Interview with the Dalai Lama at Nottingham - BBC, May 08

[dhundupdolker]

My understanding is that, DS and Nechung had similar roles. Both were considered as demon in origin, but a good demon who acts as protector. But when Dalai Lama realized that the franklin stein monster has gone out of control, he banned it. People have to understand that in Dalai Lama's monasteries, you got to follow some house rules. All monks in his monasteries study, live, and eat for free, so just chill and follow the rules. The worst crime in Buddhism is Lokta, meaning incorrect mentality.

[TheRedNiece]

some incredible news: the UNMISTAKEN incarnation of Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen is baaaaaack! A big "showdown" waiting to happen!

read all about it right here: dorjeshugden (d ot) com

[TheRedNiece]

what ImNotCCP says is true that in spite of the ban, DS practice continues to flourish. This is definitely true as DS monasteries are starting up and centres are becoming stronger and more widespread. Now, people want logic and knowledge so they will find out the truth themselves. It is not simply about just following what has been said by one person.

I think studying up on the issue, and reading materials like on dorjeshugden (dot ) com is important for gaining more understanding

[ImNotCCP]

A spirit or not, DS is still around, chinese, tibetan, western, it doesn't matter to compassion. Hence the reason DS is sitll around...

Look deeper, no matter what anyone has said since the ban started, DS has prevailed showing that he's not going anywhere, and here to stay. Waiting to start benefiting on a big scale!...

I don't care what any vinayaholder, varavaken, person says. Logic doesn't hold water no matter which way you look at it. Roll on the DS nighttrain.

[ImNotCCP]

Peace is not their middle name, compassion not the order of the day. I don't care which side of the fence you are sitting for and against. Its not true dharma to act with soo much attachment. Choose to agree your disagree then start talking about the finer points of emptiness.

Vinayaholder... your comments are the complete opposite of someone who holds the vinaya, stop being a destroyer of dharma NOW!

[TheRedNiece]

@ImNotCCP it is nice what you said about choosing to agree to disagree. We can have different points of views or practices but we can always still have respect and try to promote harmony. After all, Dharma is about kindness to everyone, even the people who are against us... DS practitioners all around the world show us this compassionate example of non-violence even when they have to suffer so much discrimination

[wisdombeing]

unfortunately, this controversy is giving Buddhism a bad name. Buddhism has maintained that it is a pacifist religion for so long but emotions have arisen over this issue and several videos show anti-Shugden people behaving rather badly.

May they realise what they are doing and desist.

[vinayahoIder]

Wisdomfleeing, RedFlagNiece, KacheMuppet, ZamBlam, yadda yadda yadda, all the same person.

Makes you wonder - what is one person doing only 24/7, posing as different people, just to DISS the Dalai Lama.

Hmm, the only other people doing that are Chinese mainlanders working for the Propaganda Department.

[cIoserelative]

Shugden/WSS/NKT is just a business. It benefits several top "leaders" (translation: business partners) and acts as the lapdog for the CCP.

Sadly, it tricks regular people into thinking they are being benefitted, only to discover the foundation is built on a spiritual pyramid plan.

Beware This Cult. There is a world of true Dharma available, which does NOT require the cult-like subservience so inherent in NKT.

[Varavaken]

Shugden leaders are political traitors on Chinese pay-role

Murder, coercion and intimidation.

There´s nothing noble about this group.

[Varavaken]

Shugden people can still practice.

Falun Gong practitioners, on the other hand, are being tortuded to death in Chinese prisons. THAT is a violation of human rights.

Tibetans listen to the Dalai Lama.

Shugden people listen to the Chinese Communist Party...

Western Shugden supporters - you will be ashamed one day...

[DharmaDefender]

I'm sorry you haven't been able to put together a modicum of daily practice, but perhaps that's indicative of you breaking your samaya with your guru. In the case of FPMT, they broke their samaya with Lama Yeshe when they gave up Dorje Shugden...and when the reincarnation returned as Lama Osel, they had no merits for him to stay and he left.

[pathseeker9]

@DharmaDefender If they can give up Shugden practice because of political reason, they can even give up Tsongkhapa and His teachings.

[TheRedNiece]

@dragonthunder2010 to be honest, if I was an outside person watching what is going on, i would wonder why buddhism is like this - why it doesn't allow people freedom of religion AND ON TOP OF THAT why there is such blatant discrimination, ostracism and attacks on others in the name of religion.

It is ironic that these people are defending their spiritual leader but actually they show such a bad face to the dalai lama by all their negative actions against DS practitioners

[DharmaDefender]

I'm not from the NKT but I hope you don't continue to criticise them for their presence around the world which benefits many people who have the merit and affinity. Perhaps you just didn't have an affinity with the tradition; it doesn't mean NKT are wrong. If you can't find a physical centre that you have affinity with, try looking online for dharma centres with a strong online presence. You don't have to be physically close to a lama to receive teachings, you just need to be spiritually close.

[leedhi]

*Note: Not sure who used my name to comment below. Please ignore. Thank you.

[leedhi]

There were many statues of DS since the days of the 5th Dalai Lama but many were destroyed after the 14th DL announced the ban on his practice (Videos titled:DL & DS Pt 1, 2 &3). It is very sad&wasteful that we lost such valuable heritage. This act also damages Tibetan Buddhism's core of Guru Devotion to the students of Great Masters like Pabongka Rinpoche & Trijang Rinpoche. In some ways, these act of destruction is like the red guards who destroyed so much of Chinese's sophisticated culture.

[wisdombeing]

even if you are not leedhi... i agree with you re the destruction of DS statues. Very sad, but even worse is heavy karma for them actually.

[thepurpIeaster]

I find it so sad when I see how this cross-fertilisation of Eastern spiritual knowledge with our Western understanding of material matters, has produced this child of such promise, (the NKT),... only to see that child now grown into adulthood as a slick, slippery-tongued used car sales man whose golden dream is to have a chain of his used car lots in every major city of the world.

[pathseeker9]

@Maohamet

Since you believe in propoganda, why don't you think that this "mix the pure doctrine" and "will be killed" is fake?

[pathseeker9]

@Maohamet

I am very interested in Dorje Shugden and hence have study quite a lot of info, including the prayers & spoke to some who does this practice.

There is no such thing as being punished or killed for mixing doctrine. Perhaps the yelow book is something that was made up or being "simplified & distorted" for political reason?

[Maohamet]

Have you seen ancient statues of DS?

[pathseeker9]

@Maohamet

I have not but I personally know people who did. They saw a statue of Dorje Shugden made by the Fifth Dalai Lama himself.

[Ieedhi]

wow, that's funny. there are thousands of statues of real Buddhas and protectors - but none of DS. Except those made in England by architect's "nun" wives, lol.

[Maohamet]

meaning have you seen any NOT made in England?

[cIoserelative]

But...

On the other hand, the real Panchen Lama has been imprisoned, or worse, from the age of 6 years.

So I guess it's hard to imagine how he can be spreading the Dharma.

The fake Panchen Gyancain can't even get online, let alone spread Dharma. I wish the best for that boy. I hope he can escape to India to receive genuine teachings.

[closerelative]

That is a silly assumption. I am talking about the situation here on the Internet. Here we go again about the whole Chinese thing again. Anyway, the Dalai Lama's plan worked and so did the Panchen Lama. Dalai Lama is working from India to spread the Dharma from there out to the world while the Panchen Lama is working from within China out into the world.

[closerelative]

You know, xfiles have bigger impact upon people's psyche than I had expected. Why does everything have to be a Chinese conspiracy to destabilize the Tibetan community in exile. Sorry, but they are already very destabilized. The only unifying factor is religion but we can't even get along with the deities with pray too. Sigh...

[NKTsurvivors]

closerelative, why indeed?

Oh, maybe it's because the people you're "connected to" are notorious anti-Tibetan racists.

[NKTsurvivors]

By the way, having different deities to pray to has always been tolerated and encouraged in Buddhist communities. You are encouraged to find your own path.

Only when the Chinese government tried to infiltrate Tibetan Buddhism did strange concepts like "fighting over deities" become a modern catch-phrase.

Just like with the Panchen issue - the CCP tries to pretend it isn't involved, but their lack of understanding about Buddhism makes their "work" shabby and transparent.

[pathseeker9]

@closerelative Isn't it sad that Tibetan Buddhism's future doesn't belong to Tibet anymore?

It will belong to the world, and perhaps even China. Tibetans has lost their country, their culture, and soon even their religion?

[Maohamet]

If it belonged to Tibet, the zf would have already killed it.

You can't even get a proper religious education in Xizang now; the stupid party controls it.

The part is atheist--they have no business messing with Zang religion!!

It will make us look like hypocrites.

[kokoIiam59]

sunny62/pathseeker/redniece/bl­ablabla

one dude with a lot of laptops.

hm, just like all the anti-Tibetan 'usernames,' all join the same day to work against Tibet.

The shadow matches the shadowcaster.

[pathseeker9]

@kokoIiam59 Nah, I'm not anti-Tibetan. I don't know why you say I have an anti-Tibetan 'username'.

It's a very Buddhist name. PATH= DHARMA. I am PRO TIBETAN BUDDHISM, but not Pro-Tibet or Pro-China.

[kokoIiam59]

pathseeker9 is just another January11-er.

[kokoIiam59]

I thought this was a wind up - maybe someone using the same name but upon investigation i found this

hotelkadampa . com / holland / hotel/world-peace-cafe

That logo is unmistakable and there is suprise suprise a world peace cafe with that trademarked tag line - an oasis of peace.

Not one single mention of Buddhism anywhere.

As Mr KG once said - 'worldly business - what meaning'

but as he now likes to say -'just business you suckers....'.

[pathseeker9]

@kokoIiam59 I think you would agree that You can use worldly business to bring people to Dharma? It's quite possible right?

If a centre is BIG and profitable, many people will join. For example, I think NKT has managed to draw many people because they establish BIG centres with many resources and published many books published in various languages.

I think it's Geshe Kelsang Gyatso's great compassion. You can call it "just business", but his business works!

[TheRedNiece]

having said that, I have GREAT respect for all the lamas who have had the courage to leave their monasteries and start up again in Shar Gaden, or even fled India to go into hiding. They are inspirational for their strength and their very deep faith and loyalty to Dorje Shugden. They are a big beacon of hope to all DS practitioners - lay or monastic. I fold my hands to them.

[Varavaken]

TibetHeart is right.

That is Gelug sectarianism.

[closerelative]

Lay practitioners of Dorje Shugden may be able to move away from the main communities and establish themselves elsewhere. What about the bigger monastic community that are force out of their monasteries in the hundreds and forced to establish separate monasteries like Shar Gaden and Serpom monasteries. They are all alone, an island within a sea of non-practitioners. The ban is simply not fair to them especially.

[TheRedNiece]

@closerelative i think no matter how bad it is, it will all dissipate soon. After all, DL doesn't live forever. W/ respect to him, what happens after he passes away?Who upholds the ban then?

With the advent of new monasteries like Serpom & Shar Gaden, they are starting a whole new wave & generation of practice & institutions which will carry on after DL passes away and make DS practice grow unfettered.

[Varavaken]

TheRedNiece

A week ago you asked "who will uphold the ban after the Dalai Lama?".

The answer is simple: the head of Gelug school (Gaden Tripa ) and the Gelug monastic communities.

[closerelative]

@Varavaken We shall see about that one. If the Gaden Trisur have defected to Shar Gaden, it only shows that there are plenty of Lamas within the Gelug school who are practicing in secret. Let's hope all will settle in time.

[Varavaken]

closerelative

You think that plenty of Lamas within the Gelug school practice in secret because the former Gaden Trisur have defected to Shar Gaden. It was a gesture but, as far as I know, he lives in France now.

I don´t know about the future. The Shugden practitioners are still a minority.

Why dont you visit GedenTradition`s channel and listen closely to what the Gelug Lamas are saying. They seem to agree that DS is a threat to the Gelug tradition.

[pathseeker9]

@Varavaken Where Gaden Trisur lives doesn't matter. His throne is in Shar Gaden for sure.

[wisdombeing]

Yes - where HH Gaden Trisur's throne is shows his official affiliation - which is Shar Gaden. may HH live long and spread the practice of Dorje Shugden!

[pathseeker9]

@Varavaken The Gelug community doesn't agree with the ban, so why would they uphold the ban?

It's already sad that there is SCHISM among the Sangha and that friends and Dharma brothers had to be separated into different monasteries.

[Varavaken]

pathseeker9

The Gelug monastic communities DECIDED about the ban (in the monasteries). As promotion of the deity continued in 2007, the Dalai Lama recommended the matter be put to a vote. In all three Gelug monastic universities, Sera, Drepung, Ganden, the Shugden opponents won by a landslide. The only group who disagrees is the Shugden minority. And they want control.

Stop spreading lies.

[Sunny62Day]

It's not about people practising Shugden privately, it's about being discriminated and ostracised in the community that you belong to, your own race.

I've heard that new Tibetan refugees in India who are Shugden practitioners felt very disappointed because they risk their lives to come to India for a hope of better life, but ended up in worse situation - being ostracised by their OWN community.

[Varavaken]

Sunny62Day

China is sending Shugden practitioners to India to spit the exile community. Why would a Shugden practitioner go to Dharamsala? Tibetans within Tibet are well aware of this "ban". And very few practice Shugden. Most Shugden practitioners live in Delhi and the Indan Shugden Society has close relations with China.

[kokoliam59]

Its strange that the Nobel prize winner H.H. Dalai Lama promotes world peace and human rights all over the world, now says that people cannot practice DS, or else they are banned and not allowed inside the monastery. Does this mean monks and practitioners doesnt have religious freedom of their own??? What is this??? Self contradiction?

[closerelative]

@kokoliam59 On top of that, the Dalai Lama goes around telling people that Trijang Rinpoche can practice Dorje Shugden. That is really funny because Trijang Rinpoche would need people to help him set up for puja and all. Hence, they too would know how to practice Dorje Shugden and would be practicing.

[Varavaken]

imnotafraid23

Anyone can listen to the Dalai Lama´s public talks.

But he can not give Tantric initiation to those who practice D.S.

Shugden monks have their own monasteries now. And anyone can practice D.S. privately.

The Falun Gong ban in China was a REAL ban.

China sends D.S monks to India to split the exile community. That could be the main reason for the ban . Preventing Chinese infiltration.

D.S. groups in Dehli have close connections with China.

So what do you expect?

[pathseeker9]

@Varavaken It is not true that anyone can listen to the Dalai Lama's public talks.

Shugden practitioners are asked not to attend his teachings.

When Dalai Lama was teaching in Bodhgaya recently, an announcement booth organised by the Tibetan Youth Congress is instructing devotees to make an id card, without which they will not be allowed to enter the teaching premises.

You can read that in the archive of Tibet Sun, written on 4 January 2010

[Varavaken]

pathseeker9

That was news to me, but ok, why would a shugden practitioner listen to his teachings? Most Shugden followers live in Delhi, I´m sure they have their own teachers. The Shugden actvists are his enemies, he received death threats a few years ago, three men have been murdered. He has to be careful. Just stay away from him. He´s not your teacher.

[TibetHeart]

No pathseeker, it is not true Shugden practioners are "asked not to attend."

In fact they are told, "you practice and this teaching may provide you with conflicting information, which can bring harm to your emotional well-being. Decide which path to follow, and follow it."

All are welcome, however. But it's important to be aware that of all other possible practices, Shugden is in conflict with the basic precepts of the four schools, because Shugden teaches discrimination against them.

[imnotafraid23]

Dalai lama wants a democratic system for Tibetans.

Yet what democratic leader would say that a certain group may not join his public talks due to their religious orientation?

Imagine if Obama said all jews cannot attend his public talks because they don't accept Christ? That could never happen.

So If Dalai lama wishes to emulate G-7 democratic leadership, he has to stop ostracizing anyone even if they practice Dorje Shugden. Ghost or not..simple.

Democracy for all!

[thepurpleaster]

Just read shugden (dot) tripod (dot) com about Dalai Lama n Dorje Shugdens previous incarnations. How they are closely linked, often collaborated with each other, studied together n even taught each other! Coincidence, I dont think so. We will not know what is HHDLs true motivation, for now the more he says NO to DS, the bigger DS gets. What a skillful Boddhisattva indeed.

Isnt it better to just TRUST in our Gurus & Do Dharma NOT Politics? Things will be less CONFUSING.

[thepurpleaster]

Now HH Gaden Trisur's is openly saying he IS PRACTISING DORJE SHUGDEN hence defect to Shar Gaden. Hes no ordinary monk but a high Lama, the obvious is understood; Shugden is not a spirit!!! The issue here is not about Tibet or China. It's abt spreading the Dharma.

Many high Lamas till this day does DS practice n I'm sure more will stand up for what is true soon.

[TheDharmaKnight]

101st Gaden Tripa has just retired. HH Gaden Trisur Rinpoche (title given after retirement)and his ladrang has left Gaden Shartse Monastery and JOINED SHAR GADEN.

Read it in the forum at dorjeshugden(dot)com

[Varavaken]

wisdombeing

You make many comments. But don´t know the reasons?

[wisdombeing]

I'm a bit stupid but why is this video linked to Dorjeshugden? Probably that his message of peace is contradictory to the activities against Shugden practitioners throughout the world? I believe the Dalai Lama is a Buddha so logically, it cannot be contradictory. He must have his reasons for the shugden ban. I'll look at more videos to suss this out.

[DrPork4freedom]

Justice For Tibet -- And the exiles

[ABCDIR]

'Loud is the noise that ordinary men make. Nobody thinks himself a fool, when divisions arise in the Sangha, nor do they ever value another person higher than themselves.' - The Buddha, Mahavagga

These people running a campaign against the Dalai Lama are not even properly monks and nuns but members of a cult in Britain.

Good night John Boy.

[truth1888]

THE DALAI LAMA IS GOING TO COURT!!

Indian High court in New Delhi is summoning Dalai Lama to court due to his unconstitutional ban on the ancient practice of Dorje Shugden on his own people.

In India where there are so many religions and their subsects, it is unheard of that a secular/religious leader can issue such a ban.

It has shocked the Indian psyche.

Preliminary hearings have began.

Aljazeera news has a special report. It is posted on the youtube

[sabw1866]

Dalai lama is good with forging lies.

No doubt he is demon.

Look what he has done, seperating east world and west world and building distrust between westerners and chinese.

oh, he is really good at that.

[dorianleakey]

Of course people on either side talk as if its a problem with His Holiness the Dalai Lama or with Geshe Kelsang Gyatso, or Ganchen Rinpoche.

This is a problem with our own

Karma, we have created the causes and conditions to live with this contraversy and we need to work on our own minds instead of criticizing very realized beings. No matter which side we are on they are clearly better than us, apart from the controversy.

[aaron343432]

LOVE LIVE HIS HOLINESS.

I HOPE PEOPLE WILL SEE THROUGH THE LIES AND MANIPULATIONS OF PROPAGANDA.!!!!!!

elieve nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.

-BUDDHA

HAIL THE JEWEL IN THE LOTUS

[BankChina]

jizzed in the lotus

[lionheart3724]

Excellent new video footage with translation at WSS site shows DL and samdhong full-on with their incitement to enforce the ban in the strongest possible terms.....

Quite angry I thought.

[ABCDIR]

Although we wish for happiness our ignorance leads us to engage in nonvirtuous action, like accusing the Dalai Lama of being a Liar and Hypocrite, denouncing him at all costs. Such Wrong Speech and actions are the main cause of all our suffering. Also, if we do not cultivate and maintain a good heart our selfish motivation destroys harmony and good relationships with others. We have no inner peace. As you can see at our protests. This is a true Kadampa Truth.

[21perusal]

Describing the Dalai Lama as a liar and a hypocrite is simply stating what is true. It is not wrong but correct speech.

He preaches religious freedom but destroys the freedom of millions worldwide to practice in peace. Even western Shugden people are not free from his interference.

He talks about harmony....how about the 9 foot high segregation wall built in March 2008 at Ganden monastery? Is that promoting harmony? I do not think so! Who inspired such an ugly thing? HHDL - that is who.

[ABCDIR]

Maybe you tell me what his lies are and what his hypocrisy is made of? If you claim he is a liar and hypocrite you must have valid evidence otherwise it is just libel.

When HHDL opposes Shugden because Shugden is oppressing religious freedom by killing those who take teachings from other Buddhist schools, then this is no hypocrisy but defending freedom of practice.

When he says Shugden is a spirit and he is convinced of this he does not lie.

[21perusal]

Hypocrites typically say one thing and do the opposite - another description is "two-faced". Like the DL preaching religious freedom and harmony but systematically destroying it in his own community.

He has not one single valid piece of evidence that Shugden is a spirit. Can you give me one? No. Shugden cannot harm anyone as he is a Buddha so please stop repeating these lies of the Tibetan political leader...

[ABCDIR]

Since what a monastery wall is a segregation wall. If this is true NKT temples are voodoo temples. Mere claims.

Since what NKT members can not practice Shugden? They do it for years without being "persecuted". GKG bans the Dalai Lama and Tibetan teachers from his centers, because he think they are bad and inauthentic.

Likewise monasteries in India have the right to ban Shugden because they think they are bad and inauthentic.

Equal rights for all!

[ABCDIR]

It is a quote as you can see from the apostrophes. Is quoting a lie and false allegation?

Maybe your are to quick in judging?

[ABCDIR]

I didn't spread a lie. Maybe your are to quick in judging?

[upkarma]

False allegations and lies that all it is. You have made some serious allegations the burden of proof lies on you. If you have any evidence of what you state then share it.

[ABCDIR]

"Shugdenists were part of the establishment for some 370 years and they were part of the establishment. They were powerful enough to murder the Sixth Dalai Lama and destroy the 13th Dalai Lama's many progressive policies, which could have preserved Tibetan freedom.

After the 1950 Chinese invasion and takeover of 1959, Shugdenists were among Tibetan refugees in India, without hope and power, and they kissed up an d kicked down in refugee camps. We can detail this later."

[upkarma]

Do not make false allegations. The 6th DL was killed by the Mongols after they kidnapped him on route to China. The 13th was a very well accomplished DL faced with many political issues. After 1959 many Shugden practioneers held postitions of power. The DL himself was a shugden practioneer at the time. I am not sure about your motivations behind spreading these lies.

[ABCDIR]

this is a quote. now my own thoughts: Although we wish for happiness our ignorance leads us to engage in nonvirtuous action, like accusing the Dalai Lama of being a Liar and Hypocrite, denouncing him at all costs. Such Wrong Speech and actions are the main cause of all our suffering. Also, if we do not cultivate and maintain a good heart our selfish motivation destroys harmony and good relationships with others. We have no inner peace. As you can see at our protests. This is a true Kadampa Truth

[dhundupt]

Yes H.H did practice this EVIL thats why He said Dolgyal is not your Lord Or buddh. H.H. is thinking of you, caring of you should not practice this EVIL Dolgyal so, if you think its Ok then you may practice in your Bed or Bathroom with dark and cover something your on head. Westrn people make sure you are the right side or wrong side I mean even some Tibetan people they don't understand by their poor study Buddhist. I really feel SORRY for them with tears in my eye.

[yintrg]

he mention that he is buddist~ this religon talk about peace.. i dont see any of him

[annemasse1]

Religion and state should be separated. It is not nice for HH the Dalai Lama to ban the Shugden practice which he had practiced before he was 50.  He should know that in a community where religion and politics are united in one, people have different views can be humiliated and attacked. This is not the democratic society that most of us are familiar with.