Iceberg rolling in the Arctic Ocean

[ptroinks]

Why would anyone post a video like this? Absolutely pointless!

[stellarblue51]

! ! ! ! D I S S A P P O I N T I N G ! ! ! !

[farrellhunter]

BORING!!!!

[ByTheLightOfaMoon]

WHY is this boring, uneventful vid titled "Iceberg rolling in Ocean"?! It should be called "woman sits in a boat and takes snapshot". Geez. What creeps these posters are to waste all our time!

[Aikenmort]

mbm; I'll have you know that all those afflictions you mention are real. I for one am a prickly heat survivor so please have some empathy for these serious malladys.

[mbm13213]

Global warming is a myth just like Restless Leg Syndrome and Anxiety Disorder.

[Wriggler2]

Fraboes, stop your annoying conspiracy theory shit.

[63falcondude]

haha its not conspiracy, its fact

[Wriggler2]

Have read more of his comments? I wasn't talking about his last comment. He's ignoring acid rain, the shrinking ozone layer ....

That is what I was talking about.

[Fraboes]

Wriggler, did you read my post to

bdastylie?

Well, do! Try the link, or look for statistics about the temperature decrease of the last 11 years.

See?

No conspiracy maybe, but ther's a large amount of people who work in the climate bussiness and who don't want to lose their well paying jobs. So they keep making fuzz about a climate theory that hasn't been proven so far.

[bdastylie]

The temperature has not LOWERED a bit in the last ten years...you twit! it's gotten warmer...hence the melting...geesh man, get it together.

[Fraboes]

Global warming of 1 degree per century happened each century since the last small ice-age at about 1600. That's a normal process. Before that small ice-age, temperature was as high as it is now. It is an illusion to think that climate is a constant factor.

In Roman ages gletchers were as small as they are now. That had (and has) nothing tot do with CO2. Because of our calvinistic nature people of the West blame themselves.

Next century temperature will go down a little because of sun-activities.

[Fraboes]

I see that you still want to decide over other people's lives, what their choices must be in their (short) lives.

Environmentalists have hidden agenda's: they use all sorts of arguments only to change other people's lives and their economic systems . When arguments has been empted, they changed it into others, Club of Rome, acid rain, ozon-layer, all have been proven non-valid.

And now there is CO2, without scientific proof that it increases global temperature. And again there are believers

[sorenti]

ok, just tell me one thing. what will i gain if they change their lives. because if my goal is just to change other peoples' lives, it must be good for me in a way

[Fraboes]

You will gain a meaning of life, the suggestion that you live a rightfull life without sins like those dreadfull SUV-users. You feel better for yourself. Also, when you join these sort of groups you gain respect and attention from people and possibly from the other gender.

What you mostly gain is the feeling of power to change things, like those Greenpeace activists feel when they get attention from the media and governmentleaders.

Its human, Sorenti, but you should recognize your motivations.

[sorenti]

my motivation is sincere worry about the planet. what is YOUR motivation?

[Fraboes]

Now we're getting somewhere: my motivation is the truth.

Not global attention like Gore and Greenpeace activists.

[sorenti]

greenpeace is crap. gore got attention to the topic and i think he didn't do anything wrong

but me? you still haven't talked about me. you bring examples about big groups or people running for president, but what do you have to say about regular people who just act, who don't run around with banners, who just sort their trash and turn out lights they dont need

[Fraboes]

OK, since you want attention for yourself instead of the subject. Do you consider yourself tot the regular people?

Well, regular people are the subjects of deceit. The enviromental (multi)national industry has a lot to gain bij believers and a lot to loose by sceptics. Scientists see their names printed in semi-scientific papers, that repeat what others wrote. Subsidies are given to those who have the name "climate" or "enviromental" in their researches. Regular people are naive, not critical.

[sorenti]

you're telling me there is no acid rain, no ozone-layer or club of rome? what a moron...

[Fraboes]

One thing I will not do is produce blunt insults. It proves lack of arguments.

And, yes, there is no acid rain (where are all the predicted dead trees, that were promised us around 2000)?

And, yes, the Club of Rome proved te be wrong in their panic prophesys.

And yes, the ozon layer is fine, like it always has been. Fluctuations appeared to be normal, and the "hole" wasn't manmade, but an effect of the Pinatubo eruption.

You don't hear anyone anymore about these three items. It's over...

[sorenti]

you can find all the dead trees in siberia and northern finland. and the worries about acid rain and ozone layers have not disappeared anywhere. i think that you have just closed some channels of information for yourself

[Fraboes]

I don't think so. You live with information from the eighties and nineties.

Acid rain is out of fashion. Environmentalists have found new items.

[sorenti]

i don't care about what is in fashion or not. acid rain is one of the worst thing destroying quality of life and biological diversity in my country and i have all the proof i need to fight it

[Fraboes]

Problem for you: there is no proof for acid rain problems (what has it caused so far?), nor for the claimed ozonlayer problems, nor for the manmade compounded greenhouse effect. Be glad that there is a natural greenhouse effect. Otherwise you would freeze your butt off at night.

There is no proof, there are only computermodels an assumptions. Be aware: the global temperature has decreased last 10 years! Why don't environmental fundamentalists ignore that fact?

[sorenti]

ok, whatever you say. i'm not interested in continuing the discussion because it isn't very interesting for me. i haven't researched it myself at all. i have a friend who i can trust at these things (because he has researched alot about these things) and i believe him.

what are your facts based on?

[Fraboes]

You BELIEVE him, that's what I keep telling you all the time. People do believe things so easily, they don't check things out.

And: they believe things they want to be true, that confirm their worldview, their personnal, political and religious convictions.

Some people don't do that: they verify allegations, but aren't appraised for that by believers.

Anyway, goodnight. It's late here in Holland.

[halfcabimpossible]

umm buddy. get your facts straight. the earth heated up 1 degree in the last 100 years.

[Fraboes]

Don't you know that global temperature has lowered a bit during the last 10 years?

All in spite of an increase of CO2 emission.

Why is almost everbody ignoring that fact?

[Fraboes]

By the way, it isn't 1 degree, it is 0,6 degree.

[Fraboes]

But I see your reaction: you object SUV's because in your opinion it doen's make one happy. Who are you to decide over other people what can and cannot make them happy? May people decide that for themselves, please?

You say that having an energy-hungry refrigerator isn't being rich? Are you the one to define what is and what isn't?

You see: as I said before: enviromentalists want to change our way of living, our economic systems and our personnel choices. They don't accept democratic rulings.

[sorenti]

being rich is having efficient refrigerator. because the ones that waste energy are CHEAP. do you even know anything about that stuff?

and changing your life about using fossile fuels is not only about global warming, it's also about peak oil. and you can't deny the fact that we will run out of oil sooner or later.

once again, let's make this gift to our grandchildren, let's be smart now instead of forcing them to deal with consequences. (and i still believe in man-made global warming)

[Fraboes]

But I see another proof of the resemblance between religion and what I see as environmental fundamentalism: You wrote: "i still BELIEVE in man-made global warming".

That's it: believe...

[sorenti]

LOL i mean, that i believe that it exists. to believe that something is true. because i was out of letters i didn't write "i believe that global warming is true"

saying that it's religion makes you look stupid. it's like calling communism a religion. of course there are similarities, but you can find some similar things at anything

[Fraboes]

No, no you wrote "i believe IN global warming" not I believe THAT global warming...

And of course communism is a belief, a kind of religion. It has all the aspects of a religion: believe in an unproven existance, suppression of non believers and opponents, you name it.

[sorenti]

yes, because if you use "that" you have to write longer sentence, it was not possible in my case anymore. so i had to write that i belive in it.

[Fraboes]

Sure.

[sorenti]

lol, i don't need to prove anything to you. if you want to think that i'm some green looney, go ahead, whatever

[Fraboes]

No, I don't think of your as a green loony, you're like most people, misleaded cause you believe everything that people like Gore tell you. And why do you believe that? Because you want it to be true! That's what I mean by the similarity with christianity: guilt about our way of living. We think we must be sinners, by enjoying ourselves.

You do you know that British court has ordered that for schoolchildren at least 10 allegations had to be crossed out, because they were abundantly incorrect?

[steveandtag]

COOL and VERY CHILLING

[Fraboes]

Global warming is't real, "bro". Last ten years the average temperature on earth has even decreased some tenth of a grade.

Global warming is a theory, not a fact. It is what you believe from who you want to believe.

As British court has ruled, Al Gore lied about at least 10 items in his documentary, and the "hockeystick-graphic" is a mistake.

Dont believe everything popular politicians tell you!

[sorenti]

but what IF it is true? isn't it worth to make these small efforts so that we wouldn't have to end up discovering ourselves in deep shit one day? and even if it isn't true, then for example, we'll be well prepared for the time when we run out of fossil fuels. and that will happen one day.

[Fraboes]

If it were just small efforts, but environmental freaks aren't satisfied with that. Their goal is a major change of our way of living, our economic systems as well as our personal life and choices. They aren't satisfied until we all live our lives their way. They have convictions, similar to religious ones. They are believers and the rest are sinners, guilty of bad behaviour. It is not accidental that they all come from originally Christian countries and cultures, that have become secular!

[sorenti]

there are no things environmentalist desire that would ruin my life..

it all makes sense and is easily achievable, we only have to make a little effort.

and there's no point bringing christianity into it. it's just that the only developed countries who can afford to think green are all christian (now also some muslim) +japan. and there's huge market for thinking green in japan. conspiracy theories are only for fairy-tale loving looneys

[Fraboes]

And: what if it ISN'T true?

What about all the major money, effort and time we might spend, only to come to the conclusion, in say 2020, that we disadvantaged all those people in the third world by forcing them to use our way of ecological living, at the same time ignoring their poverty, hunger and misery?

All that money, thrown away for some fata morgana, all that time waisted, all the ineffective efforts made.

Do you want to take personal responsibility for that? For a non proven theory?

[Fraboes]

The similarity between Christianity and the enviromental belief is that both have a mission, both don't accept non-believers or accept different visions, both use feelings of guilt easy accepted in our kind of guilty-culture (muslims e.g. have a shame-culture), both believe in a higher power that has to be respected by everyone (God or Nature/Environment), and both think of men as sinners especially when they enjoy themselves with luxury,comfort and relish.

[sorenti]

and what you tell me about religion and environmentalism does not make sense. i'm environmentalist and very anti-church, and usually also anti-religion as whole. they are not similar as you portray them.

and about not accepting other visions, you are hypocritical. for example, your from the n.lands, so probably you support gay marriage. so do you accept it that some people want gays lynches at city squares? we ALL do the same thing about accepting different beliefs and visions

[Fraboes]

That's why the environmental belief is so succesfull in from origine Christian countries. Church and preachers are missed and that's why so much young people in these countries grab a new sort of believe to hold on, to feel meaningful.

It's understandable, but it is difficult to understand why so many leaders of the world follow this new belief so uncritical.

[sorenti]

2020 is too soon. but in 2050 when everything is already working, then it is perfect because we know that the system we have created is not self-destructing. OK, let's assume that there's no global warming. but we will run out of oil one day. so let's make a gift to our grandchildren and give them renewable energy.

third world does not need SUVs to be happy. having an energy-hungry refrigerator is not being rich. what they need from us is not leftover equipment. they need our top-level tec

[Fraboes]

What I mean is that in about 2020 we will come to the conclusion that there isn't and never has been a man-made increasing greenhouse effect, and that all the money, time and effort we spended to fight it, are waisted.

Global temperature has lowered a bit in the last 10 years, while the CO2 concentration had increased. Some ice at the North Pole has melted,at the South Pole it grows. These happened in all times. Climate isn't a constant facture of life!

See the last part of the 16th century!

[The09191990]

@Fraboes fuck you dood, and everyone else who tries to make discount what a scientific theory means. a theory is backed by lots of evidence and facts. i think peoples misunderstanding of the word comes from the medias misuse of the word, calling hypothesis theories so often. but a theory is about the closest you can come to fact other than scientific law. also the politicians didnt tell me about global warming, it was the scientists with graduate degrees.

[Fraboes]

@The09191990: O Theo, you're so ignorent. You know nothing about science, and you even think that a theory is backed by evidence. Wel Theo, you don't know what a theory IS, and you're even impressed with people witj degrees.

My god man, you're so stupid.

[The09191990]

@Fraboes

from the fucking dictionary!!!!

"A theory in technical use is a more or less verified or established explanation accounting for known facts or phenomena" i know what a theory is. so do the scientist with the degrees who come up with them, don't confuse a theory for a hypothesis in a scientific context such as with climate change. also temperature change over the last 10 years doesnt represent climate change, more like over the last 100 years.

[Fraboes]

@The09191990 I see that you didn't even understand your "fucking dictionairy".

Read it again: "more or less", "explanation", "phenomena".

That;s something different than a fact isn't it?

And I see that you're still impressed by degrees. I have a scientific degree. Are you impressed by me?

[The09191990]

@Fraboes

oh never mind, haha. my bad.

[The09191990]

@Fraboes

no wait, i dont have enough of a life right now to be done arguing. If I were a scientist and spent years collecting data and testing hypothesis. conducting hundreds of experiments and writing reports to get my ideas approved by the scientific community as a theory, i would be fucking pissed off to have some twat use the retort "well its just a theory." sure theories get replaced, but people want to give an idea less respect because it's a theory, when it should get more.

[Gsnickets]

@The09191990 well, when trying to denounce a proven fact, with some money hungry new theory, you tend not to get much respect. global warming was "created" to make money, that's the simple fact of the matter. in the middle part of the last century, scientists actually believed the earth was cooling and that we might slip into a mini-ice age. suddenly 30 years later, a couple people realize that global warming is a good way to make cash...

[Fraboes]

Natural process!

This happens since the last Ice Age. No global warming! On the other side of this area the ice grows.

[TheProffesor10]

global warming is real bro!

how is it denyable?

the world isnt getting warmer!

its those dang republicans or liberals or blah blah blah