Response to Monica Dennington's "Bad Fruits from a Bad Root" pt. 1

[SAYYOURROSARY]

When are we gonna debate because you just keep avoiding the subject .

The Catholic Church (and Catholics like Peter and Paul ) wrote the New Testament

and decided what parts of the old would be included . ALL this was done 1000 years before any PROTESTERS like yourself . let's debate ! Tonight !

[BondiHarry]

@SAYYOURROSARY  Debate what? It wouldn't matter at all if the entire New Tesatament was written by Roman Cahtolics (it wasn't), if Peter was the rock upon which the church of Christ was built (he wasn't ... Jesus was) and if you could show a clear line of succession from Peter to the latest Pope IF YOU DON'T OBEY THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD found within the Bible. In private communication with me you've already shown you deny the well documented murder and brutality perpertrated by the RCC.

[BondiHarry]

(continued) One of the best observations on the difference between being a true Christian and a religious fanatic came from a Kingdom of Heaven character: "I put no stock in religion. By the word religion I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called the will of God. I have seen too much religion in the eyes of too many murderers. Holiness is in right action, and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves, and goodness." So sorry, we have nothing to debate. 

[prchdaword]

@SAYYOURROSARY LOL this is so funny.....again, the first dogmatic pronouncement of the canon for the Roman Catholic Church according to the New Catholic Encyclopedia was not until April 8, 1546 and not before. Many roman Catholics suppose it was at Hippo and Carthage in 393 and 397 AD respectively, but there canonical list differs from the one currently used today as defined by Trent (one of the Esdras is not contained int he modern Roman canon). Fact.

[prchdaword]

@SAYYOURROSARY so either the Carthage and Hippo canons are correct and Rome today is not following that canon OR the Council of Trent was correct and Carthage and Hippo were not correct. You can't have both. Either one you pick will not let you hold your argument.

[SAYYOURROSARY]

Paul said this because there were heretics everywhere . He said to copy him and be Catholic . There was no Bible St Paul was writing it . No Bible or even reading

are necessary to attain heavean . To believe that nobody had it right till Calivin is really just sad . It's a tough position to try and defend .

[prchdaword]

@SAYYOURROSARY ummmmmmmmmmmmmmm......nobody is saying that =/ ???

[prchdaword]

@SAYYOURROSARY i'm sorry, i must have missed that verse, can you tell me what verse it is that Paul said "be Catholic"?

[wellsbranchdude]

If you are a Calvinist you are following the devil...

Keep doing that and you are going to Hell...

[prchdaword]

@wellsbranchdude ummmmmm....how so?You're saying that believing in a sovereign God is of the Devil? That believing in a God who actually saves sinners is of the Devil? Believing in a God who is described in Daniel 4:35 is of the Devil? I don't follow the reasoning here.....

[wellsbranchdude]

@prchdaword

You just don't want to be accountable for your sins.

Repent or you are going to hell!

[prchdaword]

@wellsbranchdude excuse me, o ye who knows the human heart so well!!! Are you serious? If i didn't want to be accountable for my sins, I wouldn't consider Christianity at all being that it took the death of Christ to atone for my sins and I have come to Him BECAUSE OF MY SINS.....goodness. THINK!!! THINK!!! THINK!!! AND DO SOME MORE THINKING!!!! If you cannot dispute on the basis of Scripture with Calvinism please refrain from making comments that presuppose your omniscience as you are not God.

[vbirdieb]

@cubed07 I have not been able to log in for so long that I can't remember what I said. But the Bible has a verse, which I can remember "some of" and this is paraphrasing, (that God chooses whom He will), something like that. Not that it means we're predestined, but I do find it difficult to understand. Especially combined with, God knowing us from the foundation of the world. Paraphrasing here. Any insight would be helpful, thanks.

[prchdaword]

@vbirdieb well Eph 1:3-6 says that God has chosen us "from before the foundation of the world" which gives clear attestation to the doctrine of predestination....is that the verse that you are thinking of?

[vbirdieb]

@prchdaword Yes, sounds like it. But it occured to me that God can know everyone before the foundation of the world and still not predestine your choice to believe or not. And yet does predestine whom He chooses to do a work in His name. Does this make sense??

[prchdaword]

@vbirdieb well that is possible, but then you have the dilemma of either saying that God knowledge is limited and that God's own knowledge of our salvation is not rooted in Himself and His will, but comes from the creatures....the Creator learns from the creature in such a view. So then in such a view, who is doing the "predestining" and the choosing? God or man? Who does Scripture say does the predestining? Is it not God alone?

[vbirdieb]

@prchdaword These words come to mind, about the blotting out of names from the book of life. Does that not suggest predestine for salvation and then the removal based upon them rejecting God's gift of salvation? How can there be free will if God predestines every man's choice? That would mean salvation isn't a free gift for every man to receive by faith. God's will is for all to come to salvation, right?

[prchdaword]

@vbirdieb first, there is no such thing as "free will" in a Libertarian or autonomous sense...as creatures, we are never free from the will of God...His will is always supreme over ours period. He is God and we are not. Secondly, we salvation up to "free will" that would be salvation is not a "gift" but an "opportunity".....when God gives a gift, he does not give as man does...he gives as God...so He ACTUALLY gives what He intends to give...hence, we can say with Jonah, Salvation is of the LORD

[vbirdieb]

@prchdaword  An opportunity, a choice, which we have to make. That isn't left up to us? Then how can John 3:16 (For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that "whosoever" believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.) be in the bible.? Salvation is of the Lord, because only the Son of God, born sinless in flesh, could be the perfect sacrifice for the sins of the world.

I'm not trying to argue with you or prove you wrong. I just want to understand.

[prchdaword]

@vbirdieb nobody is denying that we have to make a choice. That is still part of the means of salvation that God has ordained. However, the choice to believe, I believe Scripture teaches, is a grace given by God. It is really ours, but God also has to give the ability in light of the fall into sin. Also, in John 3:16 the indefinite relative pronoun "whosoever" is NOT in the original text. Pas Ho Pisteoun is properly translated "all the ones who are believing" (present active indicative verb)

[prchdaword]

@vbirdieb Hence, John 3:16 properly interpreted is a descriptive passage about all the ones who are believing that Jesus is the Christ, that they have eternal life. It is a promise, passage, a guarantee to believers. It is not a future tense to say, "all who will believe" but it is written to the ones believing presently and who continue in their faith. I think v18 show this and the contrast well: "whoever believes is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned ALREADY."

[vbirdieb]

@prchdaword I think, I understand what your saying. So, it goes back to God knowing all things from the begining (He's outside of OUR time here in/on this world) knowing it all or rather all of us in an instant.? And declared it to us in HIS word, the Bible. You did very well explaining His grace too, which is the gift of salvation by God (for those that He knows will love God/Him). I've heard the term God is love, do you agree? I think He's way more complicated. Thank you very much.

[prchdaword]

@vbirdieb you're welcome =) yes, I agree that God is love. But the Bible doesn't stop there, or describe that as the overriding attribute of God...Scripture also says, "our God is a consuming fire" describing his wrath. He is Just. He is Holy. He is Righteous. He is Merciful. etc.....so to pick one attribute and over emphasize it, I think is to neglect the others....we should see and love all of God, not just one part....for then, is it God we love or the attribute?

[cubed07]

LOL now after hearing Lord Vader's voice, I want to watch Star Wars again, thank you prchdaword oh and great video.

[prchdaword]

@cubed07 LOL glad you enjoyed!!

[OfWrathAndGrace]

So, does Dennington ever actually use Scripture in context?

[bereansearch]

Lane Ch said that she teaches that the Holy Spirit is female. Is this true?

[prchdaword]

@bereansearch I have heard this charge from several people actually...I haven't bothered to look up her teachings after her series of videos on Calvinism

[cubed07]

@prchdaword It's true man, she does teach it, I've seen all the videos, just look up in youtube "tic toc heresey"

[joshuaspring7]

SATANIC! Horrible how DEVILISH some of these Laodicean Christians can be. To take the gospel preached by Monica & put on the background of it, the voice of (their father?) the devil?! Poor people. Amazing people even follow their carnal intellectualism & not monicas pure Gospel! Amazing, amazing! As Our Lord taught: Mat 15:13-14, Every plant which My heavenly Father has not planted will be UPROOTED! Let them alone. They are blind leaders of the blind.. both will fall into a ditch."

[prchdaword]

@joshuaspring7 "Monica's pure Gospel"??? Are YOU serious????

[cubed07]

@joshuaspring7 Her video on calvinist was nothing but works righteousness, nothing about the cross or Christ. If you want to see an excellent rebuttal, check this link out ,"Monica reviewed and called to repentance."

[joshuaspring7]

Its amazing what the devil can do. This poor woman is just trying to lift up Jesus & the devil , tru his modern pharisees is attacking her. She preaches Jesus while they preach only their sectarian (man's) religion. Old story!

[prchdaword]

@joshuaspring7 my friend, if she is trying to lift up Jesus then why does she have to lie and resort to ill arguments and misrepresentation in order to achieve her goal??? Put aside the rhetoric and bring forth your Scriptures that demonstrate what Calvinist preach is in error and what Monica teaches is the truth!!! Let the Scriptures speak

[agfigueroaa]

I think that producing a video in order to defend Calvin is idolatry.

I think it is unnecessary to defend Calvin.

Also, I sympathise with the reformers. I do not think we should care of Calvin at all. I think Calvinists usually fall into that trap.

Also, there is a maniacal tendency within Calvinist to recommend books from another men, typically also Calvinists or alike.

All that thing sounds Phrariseic (?) to me.

Lets defend Jesus with His Own Word.

[prchdaword]

@agfigueroaa I think you need to see that this is not about defending Calvin but defending the nature of the Gospel...how many Christians have done scandolous things in their lives? What of King David? Should we therefore annul the rest of the work of God and the Holy Spirit in their lives and negate all they did for the Kingdom on such a basis? What hope to we have in Christ then since we all still sin and may sin in worse ways than David or Calvin? Its about Christ ultimately, not Calvin.

[agfigueroaa]

Your statement is true if and only if the nature of the Gospel is as Calvin sketched it. And secondly,

you were replying her view on Calvinists.

Anyways, I just wanted to point out that defending Calvin or Luther or whoever is Idolatry. Certainly, Christ is different.

I do not think we should be care about this. In this path, we all grow up slowly, and probaly some of us need more undertanding of the scriptures before start preaching.

[prchdaword]

@agfigueroaa Justification by Faith Alone is the Gospel as Calvin understood it.....don't get caught up in the predestination part and think that is the Gospel...that is but a part of the whole plan, but not the main point or teaching....

There is nothing wrong with recommending teachers within the Church who have studied and have been used by the Holy Spirit....they certainly used God's word and the Holy Spirit may use them too since He is the source of our enlightening and understanding.

[agfigueroaa]

Ypu do not need to tell me that. I know u think in that way, you r a Calvinist.

" Justification by Faith Alone is the Gospel as Calvin understood it"

I do not care how Calvin understood it. I care about what Jesus says about it. Thats my point. Calvin is dead, and has not resurrected.

[agfigueroaa]

Anyways, nobody is perfect in the Body of Christ, apart from the King.

So, we need to deal with that all the time and love each other.

[prchdaword]

@agfigueroaa I guess my point is that the way Calvin understood the Gospel is the way Christ taught it....we are saved through faith in the person and work of Jesus Christ alone on our behalf and by nothing else especially any works that we do.

Yes, are just sinners trying to get along with other sinners. May God give us grace in His Church to have patience with each other and understanding. =)

[agfigueroaa]

So mean that Calvin has the perfect interpretaion?

[prchdaword]

@agfigueroaa I wouldn't say perfect as in "infallible" but he, Luther, and others before him and many after him have been consistent in saying that salvation is through faith in the person and work of Jesus Christ without any works of our own as the basis of our right standing before God. Scripture teaches that if Calvin was consistent with Scripture he was at least right, but not "perfect"

[agfigueroaa]

I would say the Reformists have the better interpretation we know.

But, I am sure it is full of misinterpretations.

my take.

[prchdaword]

@agfigueroaa well I would say its not perfect but its the most consistent I think....don't think we can expect perfection as long as we are on this side of heaven ;)

[vbirdieb]

This predestination, can be a hard thing to understand. I wish I could remember the verse, but I heard that we are all written in the book of life, but that God will blot out those who die in their sin (free will to choose). Of course there are examples of exceptions like Pharoh in Exodus. Like I said very difficult. God will be glorified one way or another. Peace

[prchdaword]

yes it is a difficult doctrine to accept, rather to understand....but yes, God will be glorified!! God bless

[cubed07]

@vbirdieb One of the problems I find with predestination is why would God judge a reprobate when the reprobate are doing what God wants and predestined them to do which is to be damned. We know the Bible says that all will stand before God to be judged. The only way we can truly be judge is by man rejecting willfuly the gospel which God has made it plain through nature, through the Bible, and through the Holy Spirit. God holds man accountable for rejecting the gospel and they suffer for it.

[fruitofspirit]

Hey, Prch - I stopped in to get some verses from your video. Can't believe people can be so blind, reading the comments on these videos from a couple months ago. I marvel at Monica Dennington the same way I marvel at Kenneth Copeland - I want to ask them both: "Are you just a deliberate con artist...or do you actually believe the stuff you say."

[prchdaword]

hahaha....no kidding!!

[prchdaword]

I have no idea what NAR of IHOP/YWAM is.....

I understand where Monica was going, but the fact is that she singled out a particular group while other groups idealize their leaders and men in a way that Calvinist don't....totally a cheap shot and I don't believe ignorant cheap shots are from God....when I read proverbs I read that the fool speaks without knowledge.

Monica and I can agree not to idolize men, but Monica is portraying Calvinist as doing such WITHOUT ANY EVIDENCE!

[prchdaword]

Idolatry is worshipping something else in the place of God....something Calvinist do not do with John Calvin....

My main point is that Mrs.Dennington is VERY ILL INFORMED on this issue!!! VERY ILL INFORMED!!!!

[1VisionaryMissionary]

you calvinist got schooled by a girl

[skalapunk]

King David lied, murdered, and committed adultery.

Shall I rip out Psalms from my Bible? Oh wait, a person's actions have nothing to do with whether or not a certain doctrine is Biblically true or not.

[bigwhammyRocks]

It's not really laughable, she is right, Anabaptists were persecuted & burned alive by both Catholics and Reformed Protestants through most of the 16th century.

[prchdaword]

certainly not denying that that happened and for whatever reasons. I do know that Trinitarian errors and the Anabaptist view of denying one's salvation as an infant (for Catholic or Protestant reasons) were considered capitol crimes.

I hope that's not what came out as laughable....her handling of these issues is what is laughable and her oversimplification of the reasoning behind the reformation and the need for it is...well, not well informed at all

[carpentersdaughter2]

If we are to immitate men whom we look up to then we must imitate the bad that they do and stand for all that they do.

While Paul may have said to the Corinthians to be immitators of him, to use that to immatate other men is going down a slippery slope that can lead us down the wrong path. What is people immitated Benny Hinn or any other false prophet.

There is be be discernment and know that mere men are fallen men with a sin nature. Jesus Christ is who we should immitate.

[prchdaword]

Again, if you listened to what I said and what Paul said, "be imitators of me as I am of Jesus Christ"....we imitate men in so far as they imitate Christ.

It only takes a small amount of effort to listen to what is actually being said and not jump to your own conclusions in blind defense of someone else. =/

[carpentersdaughter2]

You know I just got lambasted by an anteist, and now I come to read this.

Thank you so very much for telling me in Christ loving way...and oh, lets take what Paul says. He said to be immitators of Him. NOT other men, but Him...so if we immitate anyone, it should be him...to add another man to this equastion is to add to scripture.

You show me in scritpure where we are to immitate someone we look up too, I would like to know where that verse is.

[prchdaword]

I'm sorry I wasn't "touchy feely" friend =/

Paul was a man, in principle, so for Monica to say "do not imitate men" is Biblically inaccurate on her part.

Great men of God are so because they reflect Christ in some way. Lets face it, all good things come from God and that includes what is good in man. So for one to imitate what is good in man is because they are imitating God and Christ. Unless you wish to say that it is possible for men to produce goodness of their own, there is no....

[prchdaword]

flaw in my thinking or my handling of SCripture.

Scripture itself exhorts us to have faith like Abraham and presents the "hall of faith" in Hebrews 11 as examples of those who persevered in their faith despite the trials they each went through and by their example Scripture exhorts to to have a faith like they did.

Besides, how can you fulfill the command to imitate Paul if he is no longer alive and Scripture does not reveal his personal life in detail. We imitate his doctrines and faith

[prchdaword]

In this manner, we also imitate Christ in what Christ taught about the kingdom of God, salvation, etc....one thing these did was stand up for the truth. Let us also remember that Jesus Christ was a man - fully human...so there is "man" that Scripture certainly tells us to imitate as well.

[carpentersdaughter2]

While I agree with you that we are to have faith like Abraham, and other men of scripture, and of course Jesus was a man, God in the flesh, that's a given.

I think what bothers me most is that we don't have to go outside the Bible to immitate men. While there can be men or woman we can look up to and respect, to give or make them out something more special then another Christian, is not right. we don't uphold and esteem men, but Jesus Christ only.

..continued...

[carpentersdaughter2]

...continued

I understood what Monica D. was saying in the very short clip you used. While I don't know her, the point she is making is that we don't need to immitate men but only Christ. Now why in the world would you even go to this length to oppose her, while she is pointing to Christ, while you point to men.

That is your choice to point to men, but I would rather listen to someone who is pointing to Jesus, and not making a fuss because she doesn't want to point to men.

[prchdaword]

The point in my refutation is that Monica Dennington has gone way too far in how Calvinist esteem John Calvin.

She believes that the Calvinist "worship" John Calvin and that we only think about him, and that we seek to be like him in thought, word and deed. She thinks that it is our life long quest to be "little Calvins" and to have him as our "father"....

She has clearly gone well beyond what ANY Calvinist thinks about John Calvin!! She was wrong and must be held accountable for her words

[carpentersdaughter2]

I've gone back and listened to her, and she says if anyone says I am a calvinist or this or that, then these people are esteeming men greater then the word of God. I would never want to be labeled as someone following another person. I respect Corrie Ten Boom, but you would never hear me say I am a follower of Corrie Ten Boom. I would then be watering down my belief in God's word. I am a Believer, Born Again in Christ, and that is what I want to be known as......continued.......

[carpentersdaughter2]

...continued....What Monica is saying don't say you are a calvinist or this or that, say you are a believer in Jesus Christ, and that's it.

And I agree anyone who says I am a this or a that from a teaching of a man, is putting that man above the teachings of Christ.

Maybe just maybe a nerve was hit and it didn't feel so good, but look inside and tell me you are not defending a man right now.

[prchdaword]

And what "Jesus" is she pointing to?

Look at how she presents her "Jesus"?!?!? Jesus hates all Calvinist apparently and doesn't want to have any of his children at all associate with them!! Now can you honestly tell me that Jesus hates Charles Spurgeon, John Huss, John Wycliffe, Martin Luther, John Calvin, J.I. Packer, R.C.Sproul,John MacArthur, George Whitefield,James White, Matthew Henry, John Piper and many others who held to the doctrines of Grace? Is that the true Jesus or is she lying?

[BondiHarry]

The answer is in the Bible prchdword. There is so much in the Bible that refutes TULIP yet there are many who readily embrace conjecture and will readily deny clear scripture when it conflicts with their preferred doctrine.. That is not the way to go and if can lead to ruin when men prefer to study the wisdom of men over the wisdom of God. Monica is quite right to admonish that we go to the source (the Bible) than go to the writings of a fallible man.

[carpentersdaughter2]

Amen Harry, Amen!!!

[SAYYOURROSARY]

@BondiHarry You really need to study history . The idea that the Catholics were infallible when they approved of the Bible but then somhow lost authority because of Martin Luther is lunacy .

[BondiHarry]

@SAYYOURROSARY It isn't that those involved in selecting the books to be included in the Bible were infallible but that God is infallible. He through them selected those writings that He wanted included. Have you ever studied the criteria that was used in selecting the books of the old and new testaments? If not, please do so. The books of the Bible are the inspired word of God or do you think mere men can frustrate the will of God?

[SAYYOURROSARY]

@BondiHarry Are you even trying to deny that the THE Holy Bible was written by Catholics and Catholics decided what would and what would not be in the Bible and in what order at the Council Of Nicea in 397 Or do you deny this and say they were just early christians ? I'm curious

[BondiHarry]

@SAYYOURROSARY The Bible was not written by Roman Catholics. The entire old testament was written before Christianity even arose. The books of the new testament were written by the apostles or other early followers of Jesus. I am saying that God is the author of the Holy Bible and all 66 books of it were written by men as God's Holy Spirit directed them. I'm curious what point you are trying to make. Do you believe the Bible to be false and not the inspired word of God?

[SAYYOURROSARY]

@BondiHarry Ohh it ( New) wasn't written by Catholics ? Let's debate that ! I want a onscreen debate !

I'm curious then how you KNOW these men were inspired ? HOW do YOU know the Baaabal you have IS the word of God ? I say you don't know for certain .

[BondiHarry]

@SAYYOURROSARY Hmmm, yet Jesus said "ye shall KNOW the truth and the truth will set you free". We are told to study to show ourselves approved and to examine ourselves to see that we are in the faith because it is easy to believe we know the truth and are saved yet be woefully ignorant and as lost as any pagan. One of Satan's most diabolical tricks is convincing lost men they are saved and the only way to prevent this is to be in the Bible comparing what we are told with what it says.

[prchdaword]

@SAYYOURROSARY but Romes first infallible proclamation of the canon wasn't until April 8, 1546 according to the New Catholic Encyclopedia....why so late a pronouncement? The funny thing is that in history, there are early Fathers who didn't hold the canon that Rome now holds such as Athanasius and Jerome to name a few. Even Cardinal Cajetan of the 16th century rejected the deuterocanonicals until they were pronounced as canonical. Verdict?

[carpentersdaughter2]

Now you have just lied, because I have listened to what she said, and she says no one should hate a calvinist, and she sure didn't say Jesus hates Calvinist. She said the Lord doesn't like division, or men esteeeming other men in such a way that they affiliate themselves with that man.

I like listening to John MacArthur too, but I would never call my self a follower of John MacArthur....I am a believer in Jesus Christ alone, and that is what she is trying to say, and this is what I say too.

[oldschoolstinger]

I think you bring up a good point about which Jesus. If you look at her doctrinal statement, there's some problems. I did an animated video highlighting them. The biggest is on the doctrine of God. You're not sure if Ms. Dennigton's ministry is Trinitarian or Modalist. Another huge problem is the gospel & salvation. There's nothing mentioned about grace, faith and the need for repentance. I encourage everybody to check the doctrinal statement and see if it's orthodox and Christian.

[YoungCalvinist08]

I woke up this morning and noticed I am a mere man. A mere man, chosen by God, regenerated by Him and upheld by Him day by day. I love life as a mere man...

Anyhoo, one wonders why she points the fingers at the Reformers when she acknowledges it was against the law. Shouldn't that close the argument?

[KarensFaith]

Great video and response. She doesn't know what she's talking about. I have ancestors who were actual martyrs, two of them were burned at the stake! She made me mad! Standing up there pointing that finger and treating us like brainless, faithless fools and that she has the "final word!?" I don't think so! God has the final word and I am quite confident that when I get to heaven & after I see Jesus, I will meet my martyred ancestors there! Sheesh! Sorry for the rant. She's just frustrating. :(

[KarensFaith]

Oh, I almost forgot! 5*s and a favorite and shared with my friends. God bless you, you do a wonderful job with your videos!

[fruitofspirit]

To jbooks: When someone makes an outlandlish claim--ESP if that claim accuses the brethren & promotes division in the body--no matter how "sweetly" it's delivered, it should be examined in light of Scripture.

[jbooks888]

ARE YOU SERIOUSLY trying to lampoon this woman?

get a life

[fruitofspirit]

ROTFL for the 1st 2 min!

1:38--if we are of God, we love people who are also of Him. Israelites loved Moses. Great points from Scripture to reinforce this.

I see her point about idol worship--but she has a very 1-sided concept of reformers. Does she even know WHAT they teach & HOW it relates to Scripture? She never addresses that.

2:03 & 3:14, that's "little gods" ideology, alright. We'll only be mere mortals? YEA...that's WHAT WE ARE. & CHRIST overcame sin & death - not us.

[prchdaword]

"Search your feelings, Luke, you know it to be true!!!" NOOOOOoooooo!!!!

[fruitofspirit]

LOL!

[YoungCalvinist08]

Haha