Humans are a collective of the smartest dumb people you will ever meet. We will probably die out some day...but for now there is 7 billion of us, and were not going anywhere.
this seems like a problem for future generations in my eyes. We clearly have a couple hundred years left at the current rate we're going. People are stubborn though, a gradual change would have to occur, people aren't gonna just decide to go organic on everything. Im not too educated on the matter though, you should expand on how our current horticulture techniques are really destroying the earth.. Theres also alot of other sustainable food sources out there though. We're not all vegetarians lol
@McADLib You should feel free to check out the resources provided in the description box. People have been pushing this problem onto "future generations" for the past 10,000 years. Folks have been dying horrible deaths through that whole time, and it's only happening more and more. "When they came for me, there was no one left to speak out..."
What we need to do is have smaller families and work on education so that we can find renewable energy sources such as nuclear fusion. Before you go saying it's bad for the environment actually learn what it is please.
Increasing smaller rural settlements will actually lead to people having larger families due to more workers being needed to support family agriculture. This will have a negative impact on the environment.
does anybody else think this guy is being very hypocritical? im sure zzz33333 is doing lots to help save the planet not just uploading things to his computer i mean 200 videos he must never use electronics
We have managed to survive for this long, and we will continue to. We are a cever, dominant race and will find a solution to depleating resources, as we are doing already.
@tangled999 I don't think the Amish are the only ones who care about the welfare of humanity. You make no sense and follow no logical path. Just stop while you're ahead dude.
@NoneLikeJoshua Did you even listen and understand what the retard on the video was saying? He talks about extracting resources, he talks about farming techniques, you guys need to go both live off the land like amish people and stop smoking so much weed. Go make some more Zelda raps man.
@tangled999 Okay, listen, the Amish don't use technology. He is talking about honing technology and science to create a synergistic relationship with the earth and its resources so that humans can live sustainably and healthily. You have no idea what you are or he is talking about. Read a book before you call anyone a retard.
@NoneLikeJoshua "You have no idea what you are or he is talking about. Read a book before you call anyone a retard." @NoneLikeJoshua actually Tangled999 is more correct. Everybody involved in this discussion should check out "Endgame" by Derrick Jensen. google it.
zzz33333 10 hours ago
lol Pseudo-intellectuals like you are sure cool! Your Zelda raps are sweet though.
Civilization's the sickness, yet we're taught to admire this constant expansion. From living in caves to needing mansions, just to behave like expected and look handsome...
Big ups Zack, submedia/ ed:civ shared this video link ^_^ much respect, even after all these years. thank you again (as always) for speaking truth. I have your words to thank for a lot of changes in my life.
@zzz33333 Pretty sure I'm not wrong. There have been primitive societies without classes. Ask an anthropologist. I optimistic that we can build a new civilization that respects all life.
No, we have not reached civilization yet. What we have is an early stage of civilization on the verge of either; 1.) Destruction or 2.) Rapid Evolution and transformation into a stage 1 civilization.
Watch these videos for more; Michio Kaku; /watch?v=QI6vANpHhOA
@cayfehr Think about your extensive socialogical training, as well as your historical knowledge... Explain to me how communism started? 1 book converted millions in a short amount of time.
@cayfehr If you are just gonna directly insult people, make sure you've gone to school, cause you sound like your 12. However, the more people believe in this message the better. Therefore if even one person changes their opinion because of this post zzz33333 succeeded. That one person might convert another, and another. Before you know it, it has become big, and others join together. And for god's sake he does offer a solution - all the time - rewild or die... pretty simple.
Because abolishing all civilization and trying to live for yourself is definitely in the best interest of all living things. Anarchism is just egoism for people who don't realize that the best way to live is in a civilization. Without working with one another we will never progress to fight disease or improve our quality of living. I actually think that 7 billion people living for themselves will be far more detrimental to the environment than humans are today.
I don't understand why so many people are acting like this ramble even makes sense. He just took big words from a bunch of sources (including wikipedia...) and jumbled them together in a big blurb that established nothing and offers no solution? Has anyone who liked this taken a sociology class, or gone to school in general? lol.. at least you defined civilization, err, thanks O.o
@cayfehr did you hear the bit about permaculture? we gotta find our own solutions not wait to be spoon fed cause they will be different depending on where you live and the relationship you develop with your landbase.
in other words, medical technology has to some extent extended human life span (in some places, while industrial civilization destroys the lives and livelihoods of others the world over)... you seem to believe that a person who dies at the age of 34 from living in a toxic environment has overall benefited from this system, which is why I had to step in despite seeing this debate going nowhere at all. You are clearly one of the shielded, privileged few. The world isn't so simple.
"Even in Afghanistan the average person lives substantially longer than the average person in history."
higher infant mortality rates were generally the norm in your average prehistorical culture, so in that sense you are right, in a sort of fucked up intellectually dishonest way. Those who made it past infancy lived to be about the average human extent (70 years or so). No need to draw heavily on biblical records, anthropological ones will suffice.
@mlm07stunna yes, but civilization is not evolution... it's not a natural, subconscious process; if civilization were evolution then every time a man rapes a woman to death we can call it "natural selection."
Man is an organic being, and he needs to know himself through the experience of Air, Water, Animals, the Soil, he needs to know himself through watching the stars, not sitcoms. Man is being turned into a being completely disconnected from ANYTHING natural, that's why people commit suicide. They can't take the homesicknness and the stress of living like slaves to a cold murderous machine, when what they really are are StarBeams in Physical Form.
Then get off your computer and live with the trees. You probably don't want to, because living in a civilization improves your quality of life. If you honestly think that leaving human civilization is the way to go then do it.
@TheP8ntballer Humans need one of two things to survive on Earth: A Civilization, or A Tribe. "Going to live in the woods" doesn't change anything about the system; it doesn't stop the harm or increase the peace or help rewild or anything. Creating new cultural space in a rural area is another story; like building an ecovillage or a neotribalist intentional community. Many dream of this, self included. Still, the monk who chops wood for world peace doesn't stop world war.
And, if the shogun cuts off the head of the monk every time, no matter how peaceful the monk's head is at rolls along the floors, we will have a world full of shoguns, devoid of monks. If you ask me, it's high time the monks start fighting back. The "Occupy" movement is a great visual aid. Presenting, Exhibit A: the global "Occupy" movement.
So what you're saying is that you want to change the system against the opinions of others because you don't like the fact that it makes decisions for you? That's a little hypocritical. Civilization works. It's not perfect at the moment but it's better than nothing. You are forgetting that people aren't nice enough to do fine without laws. People will always look for the easiest way to the most success. The reason that tribes evolved into countries is that it was beneficial.
Hardly. Like ignorance is bliss. Ignorance is bliss until it kills you, like aspartame tastes so good up until the point where you can feel the effect it actually HAS on you - beyond the superficial sensation of the taste buds... In other words, civilization may TASTE good to your superficial senses (ideas). But it is actually killing your true self.
You are just using buzz words to sound smart without actually thinking about the reality of what you're suggesting. Civilization keeps us alive. Open your eyes and think realistically.
Suicide rates is higher because we are now living in a synthetic world of ABSTRACTIONS, of NUMBERS and LAWS and IDEAS, it's a great cosmopolitan market place where everything is uprooted from it's primary function in the universe and turned into toxic waste. Human beings are uprooted as our mind is molded to fit the underlying belief of this detached environment. We don't know the Earth anymore, our Mother. We know iPods and career-choices. The result is the loss of Soul. Man is now a Bio-robot
civilization in and of itself is not a virus, its a host, which is capable of hosting many viruses. if we practice sustainable/integrated agriculture/energy production/transportation/etc. then we'd still be a civilization, simply a succeeding one. semantics, I know...
@delerium2k i like what you are saying aout making things work. i'm totally on that team, too.
one thing you didn't mention, though, was cities. many cities are simply too big to breed emotionally healthy human beings. the proverb "it takes a village to raise a child" is a huge philosophical statement in the civilized world...ane that should be contemplated and discussed by more people. (in my humble opinion)
Just watched Vice Guide to Liberia. Now that's the level humans can reduce to when shit hits the fan! It's only when things get so bad that those who were comfortable can no longer ignore it because it effects them too and then, only then will we see the change we want to see my friend. I'm working on it now and have been for the last decade. Evolve you mutha fuckas!
@def44 "evolve" as if the problem were a result of human nature... there already is a system that works for selfish, greedy humans... it's called "tribalism"
Dont worry next year is 2012 and we will all look up and see a giant puff of smoke in the sky and jesus will float slowly down to earth to come and save us all.
@gavloft If Jesus coming, maybe he'll be amazing and conquer all of the snake-kings and mark us all up for saving; probably he'll be walking in all of us like our conscience, calling us to help our moms - we'll block him with a wall of nonsense. That sounds probable, don't it? If you stop for a moment, omens will pop out quick like monsters in old flicks. You'll be wandering the halls of your job or the marketplace, feeling like you're part of the crop that they're harvesting...
Saddly, if we were to stop the mega production the population of this planet can't be fed. This is the problem. 100 years ago, there was one billion people. If you want to to back to the method of production of that time, you will need to have the population of that time. People want labor intensive agriculture, they just do not want to pay for it. I grow apples, I do not sell them, because people expect to pay for my local organic apples, what they pay for store bought mega produced ones.
@geraldcaron Civilization is inherently unsustainable, and inherently violent. It requires violence to exist, and it will inevitably crash and cause unspeakable violence then. The question is NOT, "how can we save the system from crashing?" The question IS, "How can we mitigate as much as possible against the unavoidable damage that will be caused by the crash of civilization?"
@zzz33333 People often react violently when drastic changes happen suddently and they are faced with a new reality that they can't handle. But when the negative changes happen slowly, depression is a more likely outcome. As for civilization being violent, mobs are violent and will destroy everything. So if you live in an area where mobs are prevalent, I can understand your position. I live in a remote location, so the likelyhood of comfronting a mad mob is very unlikely.
broken record. your living off of a script. you say the same things over and over, and they don't mean anything anymore. Have you ever thought of taking a break and rethinking what you think life is about?
I don't think i have any place to say that would ever do any justice to how awesome life is. Its to big for my brain to handle. any and all blights or eco problems will be shrugged off by the planets immune system, if this is a problem anyway, and not just a form of evolution.
@la07zu i couldn't have said it better myself. life is amazing.
...and its true that (in the long run) the planet will be fine. many of us are simply trying to get "civilized" humans to Stop Trying to commit suicide. humans are not the pinnacle of evolution, nor are they necessary in the universe. i'd like humans to stick around for at least a couple hundred more years...and that will not be possible, if we continue doing what we are doing to the biosphere.
yeah, i see the hairs off my chiny chin chin fall every day when i shave. Except on my body i don't really bother with the hippy protesting cellular life
@la07zu Yes, I have, I do, I did. What I say now is different than what I used to say, and vastly different from what I believed before you ever saw my face. "Rewild Or Die" is going to be a totally new direction/sound for me. Stay tuned!
@unassumption I hate to say this, you are just plain wrong about agricultural knowledge, it was the over reliance on these technologies that got us to were we are today (industrial farming, genotypically identical crops, .etc). You know what they teach agriculture students when it comes soil erosion and nutrient loss? Have your fields lie fallow (which is not going to happen on an industrial farm) and rotate crops (which can't happen if you're a cash crop farmer).
@Velsbasketcase Permaculture is more of a philosophy than a set method of practices so while many books focus on the forest garden and swales and keyhole garden and guilds, among other gardening techniques, overall it is about arranging life in a way that is practical and sustainable so I think you could live in a nomadic way and still very much be following permacultural principles =)
@unassumption Were do I start. First off, the whole population thing and traditional horticulture: Your right, we can't save our billion strong population, so when does it end? 7 billion, 10 billion, 15 billion people? So at some point you gotta realize agriculture is a red herring, taking our minds off the fact that we can't even support our current population. So yes, billions will probably die.
Traditional horticulture couldn't feed more than a couple billion. If you're happy to be one of the majority of humans who would die if we made this shift, fine. As I said we need a change, this isn't the way.
Attack civilization using the Internet, ironic. Especially since you're not starving.
While I agree we need to change farming methods, 'organic' isn't the way. Traditional 'natural' methods eroded the soil too - technology can help decrease soil erosion and nutrient loss, more efficient use of land means less land needs using too. If we stopped farming we wouldn't erode any land but that's like saying if we stopped using antibiotics we wouldn't get drug resistant bacteria,
it's not really ironic that he is using the internet to tell the truth about The Empire. that's kinda like saying "its ironic that the inmate picked up (anything in his cell) and hit the guard with it."
have you read "silent spring" by rachel carson? its a classic. it may help you with your technofetish.
you don't get progress without risks and a few mistakes. so some birds died when we tested some drug, taught us a lesson on bioaccumulation, now we're more safe with those things - and have safer pesticides, herbicides, etc. Permaculture has some good ideas, but unless we also use efficiency increasing technology it'll fail.
You talking about 'empires' sets alarm bells ringing like folk who mention the 'nwo'
@unassumption the air we breathe and the water we drink will be more polluted tomorrow than it was today. NOT PROGRESS.
anywhere between 2 and 200 species became extinct today, as a direct result of "maintaining civilization". NOT PROGRESS.
for every single minute of the day someone is diagnosed with cancer. cops regularly kill innocent people. there is dioxin in every civilized woman's breast milk. pillows are dipped in neurotoxin to make them flame retardant.
Cancer is usually a disease of middle-aged or older people. The reason we die of that rather than say malnutrition or infectious disease is technology. We live to 80, in the past we lived to 30, that's progress in my book maybe you think other-wise.
Do you think halogens in the drinking water are evil too?
@unassumption my cousin died of stomach cancer at 34 years old. she was a jogger, who never smoked or drank. she had quite a healthy diet. technology didn't help her, her husband, or her children one bit...but they might have the medical bills paid by now.
"we live to 80 and lived to 30" are heinously erroneous generalizations. do you know how many children died in 2010?
how is it progress if someone dies at 80, having never Actually Lived a day in their life?
she lived to 34, that's longer than most people in history lived to.
People live more fulfilled lives today too, it's not just that they live longer, because of technology. We know so much more about the world, and have so much more communication, less discrimination, less war and violence, more leisure, etc.
Even in Afghanistan the average person lives substantially longer than the average person in history. You keep using personal anecdotes - do you understand sample size?
@unassumption ... "suicide rates are higher because other causes of death that occur earlier in life happen less now, thanks to technology." in other words, people kill themselves because they are bored with living? people are wishing that a tiger would eat them by 35, and when they are still alive by 40, they kill themselves? is this true? please explain juvenile suicide and wrist-cutting.
@unassumption i do not think that anything was ever "poofed" into existence. you have to divide those crazy old testament ages by 12. before The Empire forced a 365 day solar calendar on the world, those crazy-ass hebrews used a lunar calendar...where a year was full moon to full moon. (29ish days)
i don't "beLIEve in santa clause" is the way i put it.
hehe. friggin technophile. suicide rates are higher because we are told there is Something Wrong With Us.
I grew up in the countryside and have never lived in a place with more than 100 thousand people. Am an atheist though. We need to regulate companies making these chemicals more but it's not the chemicals fault. The air today is not as polluted as it was in the 50s because of new technology. Hundreds of species became extinct due to hunter-gatherer over-hunting, and millions due to bacteria starting to pump out oxygen when they could photosynthesize, extinctions natural
most of the atheists i deal with use at least 480 characters for every comment.
more total, or daily?
yes it is. the first 5 (or so) Were, in fact, Natural. the current one is completely caused by the bad habits of One Single Culture of One Single Species.
no need to apologize. everyone is wrong every once in a while.
You're not worth my time, I don't care if you believe in god but your misundertnang of history, agriculture, economics, etc., is dangerous. All I need to say is sample size of your experience = statistically insignificant. Ignoring any biases those emotions cause. Oh and the factual error -cyanobacteria caused a mass extinction. Humans are animals. Humans are natural. Humans cause extinction like anything else.
@unassumption what error? you may be projecting, my friend. cyanobacteria may have caused a may extinction. i did not say otherwise. that IS natural. good boy.
YES humans are animals. YES humans are natural. again, good boy.
this is where your ignorance is hurting you...Humans Are NOT the Problem.
it is One Single Culture of humans. those who claim to be civilized. those who say everything costs money. those who value profit and production over Life.
you sound like a creationist. do you beLIEve people were poofed into existence as city-builders? humans survived for hundreds of thousands of years (millions?) BEFORE the first city was ever even deamed of. how did our ancestors survive without technology.
Freedom is meaningless and dangerous so no, not even if it were possible.
I want bread, you do too i hope; think people will get that by abandoning technology and living in the woods, i look back at history and see that's a path to mass starvation and death. Before you say 'death isn't that bad' AGAIN like you said before, starvation also hurts the quality of life, I have to point things like that out to Methuselah believers.
you think methusala was alive. Rich people lived a long time 5000 years ago, what a shock, You're the one taking single situations and generalizing them over the whole planet.
@unassumption that's a good point, but do you think that a person living in a prison for 80 years has a higher quality of life than a free person who dies at 40?
Civilization is not Natural, especially the way it is formed today.
To exist, you do not need to build a parking lot. You do not need to Vote for the next President. You do not need to build a Power Plant. You do not need your Abercrombie Jeans. Your Computer, Your Facebook, even your School.
You NEED to breath, eat, drink, and sleep.
Civilization is nothing more then trying to prove Darwin wrong.
Humans are a collective of the smartest dumb people you will ever meet. We will probably die out some day...but for now there is 7 billion of us, and were not going anywhere.
TheOblongOstrich 2 months ago
@TheOblongOstrich Humanity =/= Civilization
zzz33333 2 months ago
this seems like a problem for future generations in my eyes. We clearly have a couple hundred years left at the current rate we're going. People are stubborn though, a gradual change would have to occur, people aren't gonna just decide to go organic on everything. Im not too educated on the matter though, you should expand on how our current horticulture techniques are really destroying the earth.. Theres also alot of other sustainable food sources out there though. We're not all vegetarians lol
McADLib 2 months ago
@McADLib You should feel free to check out the resources provided in the description box. People have been pushing this problem onto "future generations" for the past 10,000 years. Folks have been dying horrible deaths through that whole time, and it's only happening more and more. "When they came for me, there was no one left to speak out..."
zackdelarouda 2 months ago
What we need to do is have smaller families and work on education so that we can find renewable energy sources such as nuclear fusion. Before you go saying it's bad for the environment actually learn what it is please.
Increasing smaller rural settlements will actually lead to people having larger families due to more workers being needed to support family agriculture. This will have a negative impact on the environment.
TheP8ntballer 2 months ago
HIPPIES! They already have that, it's called Amish.
tangled999 2 months ago
@tangled999 Not exactly....
zzz33333 2 months ago
Agreed! Civilization takes to much and gives nothing in return.
SunsetLynxx 2 months ago
People are too selfish for anarchism to ever work I'm afraid.
TheP8ntballer 2 months ago
@TheP8ntballer anarchism is the age-old concept that nobody is more fit to run your life than you
zzz33333 2 months ago
@zzz33333 and because we need to interact with our surroundings to live, this kind of independence is impossible.
TheP8ntballer 2 months ago
does anybody else think this guy is being very hypocritical? im sure zzz33333 is doing lots to help save the planet not just uploading things to his computer i mean 200 videos he must never use electronics
kave507 2 months ago
@PatrickAndDavid MUSHROOM MUSHROOM!
NeKrosOfficial 2 months ago
@NeKrosOfficial MUSTACHES.... MUSTACHEEEES!
EgSkalHaEinVideo 2 months ago
m-mm-m-mmole!
MaarlindDubstep 2 months ago
Look, we live here, we have done for years.
We have managed to survive for this long, and we will continue to. We are a cever, dominant race and will find a solution to depleating resources, as we are doing already.
Quit moaning.
Green0rRed 2 months ago 5
@Green0rRed 'cever', - the irony, wow... 'depleating' also... back to school with you.
Butsaay 2 months ago
@Butsaay Look, i am clever, i cant help the fact that i have a shitty keyboard...
and yeah, i never said i was an a* english student you fucking tit.
i just hate pricks who rave like we're all gonna die in the next 48 hours if we dont stop living how we are at the moment.
Green0rRed 2 months ago
@Green0rRed we probably have more than 48 hours. Check back in 30 years.
zzz33333 2 months ago
@Green0rRed when resources depleat do they end up flat?
zzz33333 2 months ago
@Green0rRed the solution is "rewild or die"
zzz33333 2 months ago
Looking forward to this.
NoneLikeJoshua 2 months ago 9
@NoneLikeJoshua You're a hippie.
tangled999 2 months ago
@tangled999 And I believe, sir, that you are mad.
EgSkalHaEinVideo 2 months ago
@tangled999 If caring about the welfare of others, makes me a hippie, then label me a hippie.
NoneLikeJoshua 2 months ago
@NoneLikeJoshua Then maybe you should stop putting videos on the internet, using electronics, and move into the woods and be Amish.
tangled999 2 months ago
@tangled999 I don't think the Amish are the only ones who care about the welfare of humanity. You make no sense and follow no logical path. Just stop while you're ahead dude.
NoneLikeJoshua 2 months ago
@NoneLikeJoshua Did you even listen and understand what the retard on the video was saying? He talks about extracting resources, he talks about farming techniques, you guys need to go both live off the land like amish people and stop smoking so much weed. Go make some more Zelda raps man.
tangled999 2 months ago
@tangled999 Okay, listen, the Amish don't use technology. He is talking about honing technology and science to create a synergistic relationship with the earth and its resources so that humans can live sustainably and healthily. You have no idea what you are or he is talking about. Read a book before you call anyone a retard.
NoneLikeJoshua 2 months ago
@NoneLikeJoshua actually Tangled999 is more correct. Everybody involved in this discussion should check out "Endgame" by Derrick Jensen. google it.
zzz33333 2 months ago
@zzz33333 ...I have no words.
NoneLikeJoshua 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@NoneLikeJoshua "You have no idea what you are or he is talking about. Read a book before you call anyone a retard." @NoneLikeJoshua actually Tangled999 is more correct. Everybody involved in this discussion should check out "Endgame" by Derrick Jensen. google it.
zzz33333 10 hours ago
lol Pseudo-intellectuals like you are sure cool! Your Zelda raps are sweet though.
tangled999 2 months ago
@NoneLikeJoshua Spring 2012!
zzz33333 2 months ago
Civilization's the sickness, yet we're taught to admire this constant expansion. From living in caves to needing mansions, just to behave like expected and look handsome...
writtenwithwit 2 months ago
Big ups Zack, submedia/ ed:civ shared this video link ^_^ much respect, even after all these years. thank you again (as always) for speaking truth. I have your words to thank for a lot of changes in my life.
PreflightDelight 2 months ago
been breeding warriors up here. Waiting for the fire.
phuq1deology 2 months ago
You're describing class society, not civilization.
hithlum 2 months ago
@hithlum you dont know what your talking about..
SubliminalxGh0st 2 months ago
@hithlum Sorry, you're wrong. I'm describing civilization; all societies have "classes."
zzz33333 2 months ago
@zzz33333 Pretty sure I'm not wrong. There have been primitive societies without classes. Ask an anthropologist. I optimistic that we can build a new civilization that respects all life.
hithlum 2 months ago
No, we have not reached civilization yet. What we have is an early stage of civilization on the verge of either; 1.) Destruction or 2.) Rapid Evolution and transformation into a stage 1 civilization.
Watch these videos for more; Michio Kaku; /watch?v=QI6vANpHhOA
Zeitgeist; Moving Forward /watch?v=4Z9WVZddH9w
Zachdudeio2 2 months ago
@Zachdudeio2 Huh? Civilization is a form of human society based around cities. City-based human society = civilization. Sorry to confuse you.
zzz33333 2 months ago
@cayfehr Think about your extensive socialogical training, as well as your historical knowledge... Explain to me how communism started? 1 book converted millions in a short amount of time.
TheGrooveSnake 2 months ago
@cayfehr If you are just gonna directly insult people, make sure you've gone to school, cause you sound like your 12. However, the more people believe in this message the better. Therefore if even one person changes their opinion because of this post zzz33333 succeeded. That one person might convert another, and another. Before you know it, it has become big, and others join together. And for god's sake he does offer a solution - all the time - rewild or die... pretty simple.
TheGrooveSnake 2 months ago
@TheGrooveSnake
Because abolishing all civilization and trying to live for yourself is definitely in the best interest of all living things. Anarchism is just egoism for people who don't realize that the best way to live is in a civilization. Without working with one another we will never progress to fight disease or improve our quality of living. I actually think that 7 billion people living for themselves will be far more detrimental to the environment than humans are today.
TheP8ntballer 2 months ago
I don't understand why so many people are acting like this ramble even makes sense. He just took big words from a bunch of sources (including wikipedia...) and jumbled them together in a big blurb that established nothing and offers no solution? Has anyone who liked this taken a sociology class, or gone to school in general? lol.. at least you defined civilization, err, thanks O.o
cayfehr 2 months ago
@cayfehr did you hear the bit about permaculture? we gotta find our own solutions not wait to be spoon fed cause they will be different depending on where you live and the relationship you develop with your landbase.
weeearthlings 2 months ago
@cayfehr
Wikipedia is actually a very good source.
TheP8ntballer 2 months ago
You suck, and so do your opinions.
"This is the most important message in the world"
Douchebag
VoltVideo 2 months ago
@unassumption
in other words, medical technology has to some extent extended human life span (in some places, while industrial civilization destroys the lives and livelihoods of others the world over)... you seem to believe that a person who dies at the age of 34 from living in a toxic environment has overall benefited from this system, which is why I had to step in despite seeing this debate going nowhere at all. You are clearly one of the shielded, privileged few. The world isn't so simple.
christos0519 2 months ago
@christos0519
I was talking more about agricultural technology and increased food yields.
Dying at 34 = living 10 years longer than most people got to in history.
unassumption 2 months ago
@unassumption
"Even in Afghanistan the average person lives substantially longer than the average person in history."
higher infant mortality rates were generally the norm in your average prehistorical culture, so in that sense you are right, in a sort of fucked up intellectually dishonest way. Those who made it past infancy lived to be about the average human extent (70 years or so). No need to draw heavily on biblical records, anthropological ones will suffice.
christos0519 2 months ago
@christos0519
no they didn't, this is avarage past 5 i'm talking here
unassumption 2 months ago
do you guys believe in evolution?
mlm07stunna 2 months ago
@mlm07stunna i do. you can actually see it happen if you breed dogs for specific traits.
donHooligan 2 months ago
@mlm07stunna yes, but civilization is not evolution... it's not a natural, subconscious process; if civilization were evolution then every time a man rapes a woman to death we can call it "natural selection."
zzz33333 2 months ago
Man is an organic being, and he needs to know himself through the experience of Air, Water, Animals, the Soil, he needs to know himself through watching the stars, not sitcoms. Man is being turned into a being completely disconnected from ANYTHING natural, that's why people commit suicide. They can't take the homesicknness and the stress of living like slaves to a cold murderous machine, when what they really are are StarBeams in Physical Form.
Beatnuk 2 months ago
@Beatnuk basically!!!!!!!!
zzz33333 2 months ago
@Beatnuk
Then get off your computer and live with the trees. You probably don't want to, because living in a civilization improves your quality of life. If you honestly think that leaving human civilization is the way to go then do it.
TheP8ntballer 2 months ago
@TheP8ntballer Humans need one of two things to survive on Earth: A Civilization, or A Tribe. "Going to live in the woods" doesn't change anything about the system; it doesn't stop the harm or increase the peace or help rewild or anything. Creating new cultural space in a rural area is another story; like building an ecovillage or a neotribalist intentional community. Many dream of this, self included. Still, the monk who chops wood for world peace doesn't stop world war.
zzz33333 2 months ago
And, if the shogun cuts off the head of the monk every time, no matter how peaceful the monk's head is at rolls along the floors, we will have a world full of shoguns, devoid of monks. If you ask me, it's high time the monks start fighting back. The "Occupy" movement is a great visual aid. Presenting, Exhibit A: the global "Occupy" movement.
zzz33333 2 months ago
@zzz33333
So what you're saying is that you want to change the system against the opinions of others because you don't like the fact that it makes decisions for you? That's a little hypocritical. Civilization works. It's not perfect at the moment but it's better than nothing. You are forgetting that people aren't nice enough to do fine without laws. People will always look for the easiest way to the most success. The reason that tribes evolved into countries is that it was beneficial.
TheP8ntballer 2 months ago
@TheP8ntballer
Living in civilization improves quality of life?
Hardly. Like ignorance is bliss. Ignorance is bliss until it kills you, like aspartame tastes so good up until the point where you can feel the effect it actually HAS on you - beyond the superficial sensation of the taste buds... In other words, civilization may TASTE good to your superficial senses (ideas). But it is actually killing your true self.
Beatnuk 2 months ago
@Beatnuk
You are just using buzz words to sound smart without actually thinking about the reality of what you're suggesting. Civilization keeps us alive. Open your eyes and think realistically.
TheP8ntballer 2 months ago
Suicide rates is higher because we are now living in a synthetic world of ABSTRACTIONS, of NUMBERS and LAWS and IDEAS, it's a great cosmopolitan market place where everything is uprooted from it's primary function in the universe and turned into toxic waste. Human beings are uprooted as our mind is molded to fit the underlying belief of this detached environment. We don't know the Earth anymore, our Mother. We know iPods and career-choices. The result is the loss of Soul. Man is now a Bio-robot
Beatnuk 2 months ago
civilization in and of itself is not a virus, its a host, which is capable of hosting many viruses. if we practice sustainable/integrated agriculture/energy production/transportation/etc. then we'd still be a civilization, simply a succeeding one. semantics, I know...
delerium2k 2 months ago
@delerium2k i like what you are saying aout making things work. i'm totally on that team, too.
one thing you didn't mention, though, was cities. many cities are simply too big to breed emotionally healthy human beings. the proverb "it takes a village to raise a child" is a huge philosophical statement in the civilized world...ane that should be contemplated and discussed by more people. (in my humble opinion)
donHooligan 2 months ago
Just watched Vice Guide to Liberia. Now that's the level humans can reduce to when shit hits the fan! It's only when things get so bad that those who were comfortable can no longer ignore it because it effects them too and then, only then will we see the change we want to see my friend. I'm working on it now and have been for the last decade. Evolve you mutha fuckas!
def44 2 months ago
@def44 "evolve" as if the problem were a result of human nature... there already is a system that works for selfish, greedy humans... it's called "tribalism"
zzz33333 2 months ago
Also people take some time to watch this: Toby Hemenway - How Permaculture Can Save Humanity and the Earth, but Not Civilization /watch?v=8nLKHYHmPbo
zezt 2 months ago
I love you Zach!
zezt 2 months ago
@zezt love you too J :D
zzz33333 2 months ago
@zzz33333 you have made my day saying that :)))...more
zezt 2 months ago
This has nothing to do with KIM KARDASHIAN and ray j sex tape video that i was searching for!
gavloft 2 months ago
Dont worry next year is 2012 and we will all look up and see a giant puff of smoke in the sky and jesus will float slowly down to earth to come and save us all.
gavloft 2 months ago
@gavloft common misperception.
WE are the clouds.
donHooligan 2 months ago
@gavloft If Jesus coming, maybe he'll be amazing and conquer all of the snake-kings and mark us all up for saving; probably he'll be walking in all of us like our conscience, calling us to help our moms - we'll block him with a wall of nonsense. That sounds probable, don't it? If you stop for a moment, omens will pop out quick like monsters in old flicks. You'll be wandering the halls of your job or the marketplace, feeling like you're part of the crop that they're harvesting...
zzz33333 2 months ago
@zzz33333 I dont know what that means.. I have bought a new suit for when he returns and I hope to meet him
gavloft 2 months ago
THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT
READ ISHMAEL
REWILD OR DIE
hillexallen 2 months ago
Saddly, if we were to stop the mega production the population of this planet can't be fed. This is the problem. 100 years ago, there was one billion people. If you want to to back to the method of production of that time, you will need to have the population of that time. People want labor intensive agriculture, they just do not want to pay for it. I grow apples, I do not sell them, because people expect to pay for my local organic apples, what they pay for store bought mega produced ones.
geraldcaron 2 months ago
@geraldcaron Civilization is inherently unsustainable, and inherently violent. It requires violence to exist, and it will inevitably crash and cause unspeakable violence then. The question is NOT, "how can we save the system from crashing?" The question IS, "How can we mitigate as much as possible against the unavoidable damage that will be caused by the crash of civilization?"
zzz33333 2 months ago
@zzz33333 People often react violently when drastic changes happen suddently and they are faced with a new reality that they can't handle. But when the negative changes happen slowly, depression is a more likely outcome. As for civilization being violent, mobs are violent and will destroy everything. So if you live in an area where mobs are prevalent, I can understand your position. I live in a remote location, so the likelyhood of comfronting a mad mob is very unlikely.
geraldcaron 2 months ago
broken record. your living off of a script. you say the same things over and over, and they don't mean anything anymore. Have you ever thought of taking a break and rethinking what you think life is about?
la07zu 2 months ago
@la07zu what do you think life is about?
seriously...why don't you try to say something (anything) more important, or more pertinent to Life.
donHooligan 2 months ago
@donHooligan
I don't think i have any place to say that would ever do any justice to how awesome life is. Its to big for my brain to handle. any and all blights or eco problems will be shrugged off by the planets immune system, if this is a problem anyway, and not just a form of evolution.
la07zu 2 months ago
@la07zu i couldn't have said it better myself. life is amazing.
...and its true that (in the long run) the planet will be fine. many of us are simply trying to get "civilized" humans to Stop Trying to commit suicide. humans are not the pinnacle of evolution, nor are they necessary in the universe. i'd like humans to stick around for at least a couple hundred more years...and that will not be possible, if we continue doing what we are doing to the biosphere.
donHooligan 2 months ago
@la07zu Have you ever seen trees? have you ever seen trees leaves fall? Its same every year isn't it? isn't that marvelous?
zezt 2 months ago
@zezt
yeah, i see the hairs off my chiny chin chin fall every day when i shave. Except on my body i don't really bother with the hippy protesting cellular life
la07zu 2 months ago
@la07zu= la0 Tzu
that's pretty cool, man
donHooligan 2 months ago
@la07zu Yes, I have, I do, I did. What I say now is different than what I used to say, and vastly different from what I believed before you ever saw my face. "Rewild Or Die" is going to be a totally new direction/sound for me. Stay tuned!
zzz33333 2 months ago
amen amen amen amen amen amen amen amen amen amen!!!
permacultureli 2 months ago
@unassumption I hate to say this, you are just plain wrong about agricultural knowledge, it was the over reliance on these technologies that got us to were we are today (industrial farming, genotypically identical crops, .etc). You know what they teach agriculture students when it comes soil erosion and nutrient loss? Have your fields lie fallow (which is not going to happen on an industrial farm) and rotate crops (which can't happen if you're a cash crop farmer).
TheGrooveSnake 2 months ago
Permaculture isnt everyones cup of tea, I'd prefer an Aryan(Hun) nomad way of life like some Afghans are living today.
Velsbasketcase 2 months ago
@Velsbasketcase Permaculture is more of a philosophy than a set method of practices so while many books focus on the forest garden and swales and keyhole garden and guilds, among other gardening techniques, overall it is about arranging life in a way that is practical and sustainable so I think you could live in a nomadic way and still very much be following permacultural principles =)
ozjthomas 2 months ago
@Velsbasketcase atilla the vel
donHooligan 2 months ago
@Velsbasketcase me, too!
zzz33333 2 months ago
@unassumption Were do I start. First off, the whole population thing and traditional horticulture: Your right, we can't save our billion strong population, so when does it end? 7 billion, 10 billion, 15 billion people? So at some point you gotta realize agriculture is a red herring, taking our minds off the fact that we can't even support our current population. So yes, billions will probably die.
TheGrooveSnake 2 months ago
Very clearly stated - thanks.
REXMARX003 2 months ago
Traditional horticulture couldn't feed more than a couple billion. If you're happy to be one of the majority of humans who would die if we made this shift, fine. As I said we need a change, this isn't the way.
unassumption 2 months ago
@unassumption What do you have in mind?
zzz33333 2 months ago
Attack civilization using the Internet, ironic. Especially since you're not starving.
While I agree we need to change farming methods, 'organic' isn't the way. Traditional 'natural' methods eroded the soil too - technology can help decrease soil erosion and nutrient loss, more efficient use of land means less land needs using too. If we stopped farming we wouldn't erode any land but that's like saying if we stopped using antibiotics we wouldn't get drug resistant bacteria,
unassumption 2 months ago
@unass
did you miss it when he mentioned permaculture?
it's not really ironic that he is using the internet to tell the truth about The Empire. that's kinda like saying "its ironic that the inmate picked up (anything in his cell) and hit the guard with it."
have you read "silent spring" by rachel carson? its a classic. it may help you with your technofetish.
donHooligan 2 months ago
@donHooligan
you don't get progress without risks and a few mistakes. so some birds died when we tested some drug, taught us a lesson on bioaccumulation, now we're more safe with those things - and have safer pesticides, herbicides, etc. Permaculture has some good ideas, but unless we also use efficiency increasing technology it'll fail.
You talking about 'empires' sets alarm bells ringing like folk who mention the 'nwo'
unassumption 2 months ago
@unassumption the air we breathe and the water we drink will be more polluted tomorrow than it was today. NOT PROGRESS.
anywhere between 2 and 200 species became extinct today, as a direct result of "maintaining civilization". NOT PROGRESS.
for every single minute of the day someone is diagnosed with cancer. cops regularly kill innocent people. there is dioxin in every civilized woman's breast milk. pillows are dipped in neurotoxin to make them flame retardant.
WHAT PROGRESS DO YOU SPEAK OF?
donHooligan 2 months ago
@donHooligan
Cancer is usually a disease of middle-aged or older people. The reason we die of that rather than say malnutrition or infectious disease is technology. We live to 80, in the past we lived to 30, that's progress in my book maybe you think other-wise.
Do you think halogens in the drinking water are evil too?
unassumption 2 months ago
@unassumption my cousin died of stomach cancer at 34 years old. she was a jogger, who never smoked or drank. she had quite a healthy diet. technology didn't help her, her husband, or her children one bit...but they might have the medical bills paid by now.
"we live to 80 and lived to 30" are heinously erroneous generalizations. do you know how many children died in 2010?
how is it progress if someone dies at 80, having never Actually Lived a day in their life?
donHooligan 2 months ago
@donHooligan
she lived to 34, that's longer than most people in history lived to.
People live more fulfilled lives today too, it's not just that they live longer, because of technology. We know so much more about the world, and have so much more communication, less discrimination, less war and violence, more leisure, etc.
unassumption 2 months ago
@donHooligan
Even in Afghanistan the average person lives substantially longer than the average person in history. You keep using personal anecdotes - do you understand sample size?
unassumption 2 months ago
@unassumption methuselah lived to be 80 years old, and that was like 5,000 years ago.
more fulfilled? is that why suicide rates have risen so dramatically? is that why mental illness spreads all across the civilized world?
i shared that story with you, hoping you might be able to hear what i'm trying to say.
donHooligan 2 months ago
@donHooligan
Are you a full on creationist? You believe in Adam living to 900 right?
Nothing more to say to you if you believe a bronze age fairy tale.
Suicide rates are higher because other causes of death that occur earlier in life happen less now thanks to technology <_<
unassumption 2 months ago
@unassumption ... "suicide rates are higher because other causes of death that occur earlier in life happen less now, thanks to technology." in other words, people kill themselves because they are bored with living? people are wishing that a tiger would eat them by 35, and when they are still alive by 40, they kill themselves? is this true? please explain juvenile suicide and wrist-cutting.
zzz33333 2 months ago
@zzz33333
You support the guy who says Methuselah lived to 5000 so traditional farming methods work huh? I don't need to respect you at all if you do.
unassumption 2 months ago
@unassumption
He Said Methuselah lived to be 80.
And that he lived, past tense, about 5,000 years ago.
As in, like saying Dinosaurs lived 365 Million Years ago.
NOT DINOSAURS LIVED TO BE 365 MILLION YEARS OLD!!
Fail Reading!
Plus the Mathmatics in Life Expectancy is actually a rather poor generalization. Since there are factors of age 'milestones' varying in account.
People didn't all live to 30 and drop dead.
Even back then, it was still possible to see 80.
redwolfmoonhowl 2 months ago
@unassumption i do not think that anything was ever "poofed" into existence. you have to divide those crazy old testament ages by 12. before The Empire forced a 365 day solar calendar on the world, those crazy-ass hebrews used a lunar calendar...where a year was full moon to full moon. (29ish days)
i don't "beLIEve in santa clause" is the way i put it.
hehe. friggin technophile. suicide rates are higher because we are told there is Something Wrong With Us.
donHooligan 2 months ago
@unassumption did you read the book, or just wiki it?
more safe? look into seven dust. i think its made by ortho...or union carbide,..or sum'm
we have trace amounts of 2.4D in our drinking water.
dude, you know NOTHING about organic gardening...obviously.
i want to make an assumption:
you are an atheist who has had a (mainly) urban existence.
i know i'm an ass, now...but, am i right?
donHooligan 2 months ago
@donHooligan
I grew up in the countryside and have never lived in a place with more than 100 thousand people. Am an atheist though. We need to regulate companies making these chemicals more but it's not the chemicals fault. The air today is not as polluted as it was in the 50s because of new technology. Hundreds of species became extinct due to hunter-gatherer over-hunting, and millions due to bacteria starting to pump out oxygen when they could photosynthesize, extinctions natural
unassumption 2 months ago
@unassumption cool. i guess i'm half an ass. a cheek.
why couldn't we just Stop Making Poison?
2-200 species PER DAY go extinct, right now...as a direct result of industrial civilization. that is not natural.
the mass-extinction that Earth is currently experiencing is the first of it's kind. it is happening because of the way civilized people live.
donHooligan 2 months ago
@donHooligan
cyanobacteria killed more species. Not the first of it's kind. sorry.
unassumption 2 months ago
@unassumption wow. that's it?
most of the atheists i deal with use at least 480 characters for every comment.
more total, or daily?
yes it is. the first 5 (or so) Were, in fact, Natural. the current one is completely caused by the bad habits of One Single Culture of One Single Species.
no need to apologize. everyone is wrong every once in a while.
donHooligan 2 months ago
@donHooligan
You're not worth my time, I don't care if you believe in god but your misundertnang of history, agriculture, economics, etc., is dangerous. All I need to say is sample size of your experience = statistically insignificant. Ignoring any biases those emotions cause. Oh and the factual error -cyanobacteria caused a mass extinction. Humans are animals. Humans are natural. Humans cause extinction like anything else.
unassumption 2 months ago
@unassumption what error? you may be projecting, my friend. cyanobacteria may have caused a may extinction. i did not say otherwise. that IS natural. good boy.
YES humans are animals. YES humans are natural. again, good boy.
this is where your ignorance is hurting you...Humans Are NOT the Problem.
it is One Single Culture of humans. those who claim to be civilized. those who say everything costs money. those who value profit and production over Life.
donHooligan 2 months ago
@donHooligan
civilization is natural, like respiration.
unassumption 2 months ago
@unassumption
Civilization is as natural as cancer is.. Which is a man-made disease.
Beatnuk 2 months ago
@Beatnuk
Cancer is as man made as mutations.
unassumption 2 months ago
@unassumption
you sound like a creationist. do you beLIEve people were poofed into existence as city-builders? humans survived for hundreds of thousands of years (millions?) BEFORE the first city was ever even deamed of. how did our ancestors survive without technology.
do you believe in the laws of physics?
donHooligan 2 months ago
@donHooligan
they didn't survive, at least not as long as we do now. fail.
unassumption 2 months ago
@unassumption that was a pretty weak, unintelligent comment...but i don't think you failed. don't be so hard on yourself.
do you want to be free?
donHooligan 2 months ago
@donHooligan
Freedom is meaningless and dangerous so no, not even if it were possible.
I want bread, you do too i hope; think people will get that by abandoning technology and living in the woods, i look back at history and see that's a path to mass starvation and death. Before you say 'death isn't that bad' AGAIN like you said before, starvation also hurts the quality of life, I have to point things like that out to Methuselah believers.
unassumption 2 months ago
@donHooligan
People didn't survive as long back then as they do now. FACT.
Your statement to the opposite effect is therefore fail.
Not unintelligent, just concise.
unassumption 2 months ago
@unassumption you are asserting a generalization, based on averages, as a fact.
i consider your entire line of reasoning to be "fail" as you say. who is right?
you don't want to be free?
you are smarter and more powerful than you have been led to beLIEve.
please re-read my comment about methuselah before you embarass yourself any further.
donHooligan 2 months ago
@donHooligan
you think methusala was alive. Rich people lived a long time 5000 years ago, what a shock, You're the one taking single situations and generalizing them over the whole planet.
unassumption 2 months ago
@unassumption that's a good point, but do you think that a person living in a prison for 80 years has a higher quality of life than a free person who dies at 40?
donHooligan 2 months ago
@unassumption
Civilization is not Natural, especially the way it is formed today.
To exist, you do not need to build a parking lot. You do not need to Vote for the next President. You do not need to build a Power Plant. You do not need your Abercrombie Jeans. Your Computer, Your Facebook, even your School.
You NEED to breath, eat, drink, and sleep.
Civilization is nothing more then trying to prove Darwin wrong.
'Survival of the Fittest' is NATURAL.
redwolfmoonhowl 2 months ago
Those who try to control the world or other people or themselves distance themselves from the tao(God,the almighty,spirit,truth,etc)
ozjthomas 2 months ago
@ozjthomas amen
donHooligan 2 months ago
The most important message in the world.
ozjthomas 2 months ago
posted on mah twitter
hbk1576 2 months ago