Added: 2 years ago
From: HCBailly
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  • Little bit of a random note here, but do you think that this is partially related to Final Fantasy Tactic's Worker 8's attacks? How Worker 8's special moves will drain his HP. Like I said, just a random thought, but felt like blurting it out. :P

  • gamefags

  • fühl mich irgendwie allein..:( will einer mit mir schreiben hab auch bilder und so

  • Actually you bought 1 less HP pill than you did attack pills because you were like 100 gold short of the last one for HP since before you bought Attack pills you did a fight that gave you enough money to buy the last pill

  • It's either a glitch or the developers were tired of the game or maybe they were on drugs

  • well if that,s the case i would spend money on attack and hp to do twice the amount of damage if i was to put it on one state.

  • One thing to try would be to boost other stats. The damage may be based on a "level" based on your total stats.

  • How did you come up with Sleipner200?

  • Sleipnir is Odin's horse. Also, it's 2000, not 200.

  • i meant 2000

  • This is the real question - theory?

  • HCBailly uses steroids on his RoBots?

  • I'm not sure how one would accurately reverse engineer a video game without decompiling it, as trying to interpret the machine code would be next to impossible, I would think. Nonetheless, people successfully mod video games all the time, which isn't just observing and interpreting the source code, but actually changing it. I'm still not really sure how they do it, but my best guess is with a decompiler.

  • You can use the emulator in a debugger, so you can run the game, set breakpoints, reload saves, etc. This is really more tedious than hard if the code is not designed to confuse you (it is usually not). In this case you could just make a save before the damage is dealt, look for the damage it'll deal in memory (you know it in advance thanks to saved states). Once you know where the damage is stored, you just have to see how it is computed.

    Writing the emulator is the difficult stuff.

  • First he discovers Mog can corpse jump, and Kefka's picture is Ultima... Then he discovers this.

    It's crazy to think how something like this can be discovered so far after the games release. Makes you wonder about what other future discoveries about games we take for granted will come up.

    What really interests me is the questions you were asking. Do you do that during the test runs of your other LPs as well?

  • omg tried to thumbs up you and oops did thumbs down. So sorry :(

  • I think for robots, it might be less like HP being actual health, and more like it being kind of like a battery or energy source. The less HP, or energy, the robot has, the weaker it'd be. Sorta like in real life with machines.

  • Think the real question is. Why are pills effecting machines?

  • Haha, you're so right.

  • True. lol

  • But if that happens only to robots.. it could explain that the pills upgrade (virtually of course) the structure of the robot... which gives him more vitality...

    That could work.. i guess.

  • HPBailly

  • if it was stamana, then it might make some sense.

  • Sounds like an intentional bug so that programmers could get through the game fast. I think that they made it illogical so people wouldn't end up getting through the game so fast.. Is this game your next side LP? I got stuck/lost part through the game and would enjoy seing how to beat it!!

  • I think logically speaking, your robots HP increases by making him more durable and structurally sound, through pills. So since hes built like a near solid block of metal instead of just a frame, he can do more damage due to upgraded parts? I guess that could work.

  • Grabb'n Peelz

  • Ah, you made me re-subscribe to the FFL3 GameFAQs board...

  • HEY that's My Name!!!! lol

  • God damn this is like pokemon with swords =o

  • One word: Atma Weapon.

  • That's two words.

  • that's two words dude :x

  • have you tried to damage your HP boosted robot? I think if it depends on the current HP then it could be intentional, but if it only depends on the max HP then I think it wasn't intentional.

  • Maybe they switched the bytes or whatever like in FFL2 with the magi.

  • would increasing both double damage?

  • Awesome xD

  • ...WEARD

  • Actually, it'd make sense in the real world. More HP would mean a stronger material for a robot, and that means it canhit harder without breaking.

  • Maybe the HP of the Robot affects the talent damage by showing superior hardiness, so when the robot dashes, it's a stronger material or something? :P

  • I believe both HP and Attack on robots should give the same bonus, divided by half. 2 pills on attack should give the same as 2 pills on hp, or the same as 1 pill on attack and 1 on defence.

    Maybe it was overlooked, so we can consider it raising as much as attack power a bug.

    Boosting damage with max HP and max Attack is quite the kick in the nuts, although...

    Maybe they had to make the robots more useful, somehow. I never played the game, so I don't know.

  • HCBailey, have you ever tried both HP and Attack Pills? That would be an interesting maxed out robot.

  • Have you tried messing with a SRAM viewing tool? I can probably write an essay on this but here it goes.

    I Dont believe its a bug otherwise it would show more erratic (invalid) results by exceding HEX limitations (IE ~255) . If the dmage multiplier wer some how reading both HP and ATP values in error and creating damage based by both im SURE that having 999 HP would cause an invalid calculation (IE 999xmultiplier = higher then hex value can handle and probably result in healing the mob)

  • Take other games for example which values above the max results in bugs. Usualy game breaking (IE packman level 255) most games from this era do not have a check for limitations to prevent these bugs. If you use a sram viewer/editor it should be apparent when you change the hp and atp values in the memory realtime? It realy looks like it has its own calc or the 999 hp would cause the total damage to roll from 0 to the highest calc over and over and not give a predictable result

  • Just wondering, hve you tried with the other stats. Like there could be chance that the damage is a formula dealing with your average points of stats times a base value?

  • OMG, You're on Gamefaqs!? XD Awesome! I only thought you looked at the guides lol

  • Comment removed

  • wow ummmm my guess is that it isa bug..

    that all i can think of cuz ur doing the same amount of damage either way by maxing atk or hp.. but still a cool find nonetheless

  • To be honest, I've never played this game, so I can't really say what's going on...

  • It would make sense to me that a robots hp would increase its attack cause Hp for a robot would be like its energy, or power source, so the more HP a robot has the larger power source it can pull from for its attacks

  • Ys thanks for copying nearly exactly what I said.

  • sorry i didnt see your comment, but hey great minds think alike ;]

  • have u attempted to boost both HP/ATP and see if it does more than 180 +235? (19 atp resulted in ~55 dmg, 99 resulted in 235, 235-55=180). since both did the same damage when boosted, so long as you get the same number of pills for both, you'll be able to conclude that both HP and ATP are adding to the total damage.

  • my guess would be that it being a robot means that it needs power to work. HP=power in this case. The less power he has, the less functionable he is.

  • The more hp robots have means the more battery life they have... batterys are heavy so they hit more with all that extra weight :P

  • That's an interesting find. Although I have one little question that might help with the testing...maybe.

    I'm seeing that the damage is increasing due to HP rising as well as ATK. What I want to know is if the ATK decreases when your HP is low, or would the ATK still be a same because it still has the number of MAX HP

    In formula I'm thinking;

    75/75 (MAX HP) + ATK > or = 25/75 (Or any number under MAX HP) + ATK ???

  • Hey, HC, One final note:

    Could you do one more video, or at least post the results of the above test, but with 9 into HP and 9 into Attack? You've got four cases here, but you've only filled in 3 (Base stats, higher ATK, higher HP). I'd like the last one to see if damage is increased even higher or not-- Specifically, numbers. Post it in the GameFAQs thread or reply to me here.. Annotations in the video could work, too.

  • Also: Could you test with lower robot HP? It might be based on current HP and not max HP, too... @_@

  • Dividing my money between HP and Attack gives the same results, as the damage boost from both stack. Thus, I might as well throw all my money into HP.

    Robot talent damage is based on max HP, not current HP.

  • By the way.....

    What other boards do you go to?

  • also wanted to add which you probably already know, that if its dependent on both it will add and probably divide...like some sort of algorithm... if you figure this out HCBaily let us know!!! I'm curious to know if I'm right ^_^

  • i would think if its a robot see his health as energy? the ability to do work? plus it's physical ability of 19 attack power...as in how the robot is built to do only a certain amount of damage... now if you increase its energy "HP" in theory with electronics and robots it could be more powerful.... until it explodes! so don't blow up the robot HCBaily :D have a nice day!

  • hey if u need help i could decode those dmg algorithms (im a programer in training basically more less teaching myself) lol so if u really want to know send me the code or something an i could help

  • Number of hit points on a robot could also mean its energy so if the robot has more energy his hits can do more dmg, my theory

  • will it do even more damage if you raise both your attack to 99 and hp to 999 would it do like 500 damage or something

    btw this is a kind of glitch i had found myself when i played long time ago, others might know it but you can actually get more than 999 max hp in this game, i had arthur around level 76 and he was taking damage in battle but his hp still would say 999, and wouldn't go lower till he got hit a bunch of times, i estimated his hp to be around 2070ish

  • I want to say that its dependent on both. it would be odd if it was Hp+Atc by 2. ive seen it done but I doubt it. I still want to say it is dependent on both or whichever one is higher

  • I decided to look in the Instruction booklet just to see what it says... says nothing about HP but does say that "attack" affects the degree of damage ... "agility" affects initiative, ability to do damage by swords, and accuracy of attack.

    My guess is that by raising a robots HP you are making it larger so slamming attacks like dash would do more because the robot is bigger? good question :)

  • I want to know something Hcbailly. Do you post walkthroughs at gamefaqs because i recall seeing something with the word slepinir

  • No, I've never made one, though I've considered writing one for this game, since there's only one other on GameFAQs.

  • Certain Nippon Ichi games derive attack damage from all sorts of things- Speed, Hit, HP, Defense and Magic Defense...

    So it's not that shocking, really.

  • my current guesss would be robots are machines right so intellegently if one thing gets raised it might well can have the brain compacity to riase another for of endurance without actualy raising wow thats confusing :P

  • Damage = number of pills taken total?

  • Have you tried to see whether higher HP of the Robot causes less damage received from an enemy, rather than raising the defence stat with capsules.

  • I haven't done any specific testing on that, but from my two test runs, I recall my robot taking substantially more damage than my other party members until I invested in Defense pills. In any case, this is compensated by the Cure spells healing based on a % of max HP, not your Magic stat. As a result, Defense is my lowest priority.

  • Is your Cyborg Kurtis named after the Disgaea character, by any chance?

  • It's his default name, if my memory serves me right. Also, sup, Demonwing13 <_<

  • Heya dood :3

    I never got around to adding you to any messengers

  • No, he's named after Cowboy Curtis.

  • Ah okay

    Hehe...Disgaea has a Cyborn named Kurtis too, might be named after the same thing I guess

  • cowboy from where

  • HC, did you check out the manual for the game out replacementdocs? It gives you some info on the character growths for each class - not sure if it is useful to you, but it might be worth checking out if you haven't done so already.

    My guess is it's by design rather than a bug considering you start out with lower stats for the robot.

  • It won't be of any a special ability your equipment that works with MAX HP.

  • Does this only work on robots or all creatures in this game? Perhaps it is like a special ability, not that it makes any sense but you know.

  • There is a pirate nes game called titanic that links your damage to your HP.

  • The only "RPG" that i know that uses HP as a weapon is Pokemon (specifically bide, but there is a few others), but that is only one specific attack and not really Hp = attack. (more like loss of hp = attack)

    Endeavor does more damage if the user's hp is higher than the opponents,and Flail does more damage the lower your hp is (similar to your locke setup in FF6) but still not exactly the same.

    Interesting to see though.

  • Endeavor actually lowers the opponent's HP to your amount. So if you're at 2 HP, it will lower the opponent to 2 HP. If they're lower than your HP, it will do nothing.

    Don't forget about Water Spout and Eruption-- they do more damage the higher your HP is. Pokemon actually has several attacks that use HP as a weapon in that way.

  • Think the game is bugged. Bet the damage math that is checking HP should of been checking something else but got misplaced in the code.

  • They are robots, when they have more HP(energy) dedicated towards functions such as attacking, the damage increases. Its like conversion of potential energy (HP) into kinetic energy (dmg during attack).

  • But then they would lose their potential energy (HP) when they turn it into kinetic energy. So either your theory is wrong, or the developers didn't care to put that function in.

  • To quote AVGN, ''What were they thinking?!''

  • You may as well rename the robot Ultima Weapon. If your max HP is relevant to the damage output, and your HP is maxed, that was about 250 damage. The same could be said for max damage as well, given the test. Mix both and you got a tank character doing 500+ damage with maxed HP that will continue to do consistant damage regardless of damage taken. Whoa...and only at level 13. That's what I call an early tank character! Good find.

  • Sadly, tanking does not exist in this game. Unlike the previous two games, your party formation has no bearing on the number of attacks you receive.

    Also, Dash is only a moderately strong talent. Just wait until you see stronger ones like Drop and Dance. Those get almost borderline obscene.

  • This sorta makes me wish you were my friend back in the day HC. I never had somebody else to talk RPG research and theories with when I was young. :)

  • There is no random spread of damage in this game. The damage you do is calculated based on your stats and the enemy's defense to return an exact amount. In most RPGs there is some variance, but not in this one. So, having a large sample size isn't critical in this case.

  • How about maxing BOTH HP and attack.

    Would that do insane damage?

  • They stack. It's certainly better than what a human could do, but nothing obscene.

  • I feel like I've seen RPGs that boost damage based on HP before. Either way, it's cool to see how much research you put into your games.

    I only look stuff up if I get stuck, so once I figure out a strategy that works I don't look up any others even if my strategy might not be the best.

  • The damage is it based on your max hp or how much you have?

  • It's based on max HP, not current HP.

  • I guess that it does that because the robot is at a better condition.

  • The song in the background sounds like the New Bark town theeme

  • Wow, you put an immense amount of research into all your games. I checked a few of your other posts on the GF boards and you're all over the place. I thought you just played the games multiple times until you were ready to LP them. You sir, deserve much gratitude. Thanks for all your effort. ^_^

  • It's Final Fantasy. I've given up trying to logically piece together gameplay mechanics after the second one.

  • HP Boosting damage in RPGs isn't unprecedented, but its usually in the context of dragon breaths (like Ryu/Peco in Breath of Fire III)

  • My question to you is how is a robot taking pills? I really need to stop questioning the logic of video games.

  • Whoa. Never noticed that when I was playing Legend 3. Nice find.

    Maybe making the robot's body more durable makes its Dash hit harder? =P

  • Wow, I played FFL3 and beaten the game a couple of times and I didn't know this. So, have you tested to see if having high attack and hp stack on each other? Like if you bought both different pills and maxed out both stats then maybe you would do over 500 damage instead of 250s? If they don't stack, it probably be a good idea to just buy hp pills since they raise 2 things instead of one like the attack pill. I'm so looking forward to this LP.

  • The damage bonus from using both HP and Attack pills stack. Talent damage seems to be a function of BOTH Attack Power and HP.

  • So you will be buying both pills then if you can afford it? Or should I just wait and see?

  • Heh...HC is popping pills...

  • Hey HCBaily.

    I think the reason why increasing HP also increases damage is because the game designers wanted to make it seem like when your increasing your HP, your beefing up your character and making him physically stronger. And, in the process of making him able to take more hits, he will naturally hit harder. Some RPG's that i know, follow this same type of concept.

  • did you test this with other pills?

  • Agility and Defense pills seem to have no impact on Talent-based damage. Agility does influence melee weapon damage, but they tend to be weaker than simply using Talents.

  • I have a theory, As it is a robot, perhaps the HP, is looked upon by the developers as energy, and a high energy robot might be able to fight harder.

  • My theory behind it is this because robot run on electricity (so kinda like their life) the more electricity it has the higher it is able to function therefore making it more powerful?

  • I agree. Though the HP of the robot should decrease with each attack then...

  • So damage is scaled on your HP as well as your Attack? So why bother raising attack when raising HP can help your attack power AND your survivability with the robot?

    5/5 Scientific yet simple test to figure that out!

  • The only reason to raise attack power would be because you've maxed out HP, though you can go over 999, I won't abuse that.

  • I have a feeling an LP of this cool looking game will be coming soon. I want to see more of this. Thats a pretty cool secret there. I wonder what would happen if you increased his HP AND Attack power?

  • Blue line of death sighted.

  • AWESOME!!

  • Nice!

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