How do you solve a problem like Inmendham?

[astrotometry]

How do you solve it. Not like this. You ignore it. You stop drawing attention to it. It's the sort of problem that would not be there otherwise.

[conferencereport]

@astrotometry My interest is in creating social architectures which facilitate interesting and productive relationships. I was just using Inmendham as an illustration.

[astrotometry]

@conferencereport Strawmen are useful, but self-deceptive.

[JonPaulPrime]

LOL avoiding people by not subbing or interacting is fine, but when you say you'll not even watch the video of someone you *are* subbed to IF they happen to be talking to "that person" you want to avoid, is kind of silly. That's like consciously going out of your way to apply an irrational prejudice for personal (generally trivial) reasons. It's a value judgement. What's more valuable: the prejudice or the conversation? Which of the two deserves maintenance?

[DanaGarrett]

CR, does your aversion to to "nonconsensual confrontation" extend to the maker of the video who does the confronting in the first instance? Or does it only extend to the commenter?

[conferencereport]

@DanaGarrett The title of this video is 'How do you solve a problem like Inmendham'.

[BeautifulTruthShow]

I'd say the problem is not inmendham, it's their problem if they can't help themselves from clicking his videos or reading his comments... If I don't like someone's videos I don't click on them and it's really quite effective!

[captcaveman4201]

shit vid mate.

[conferencereport]

@captcaveman4201 Thanks, I love you too

[xMachineGhostsx]

brilliant user name mate it ain't one of those shit names with numbers after it Oh Wait!!!!!!!!!

[Atalantius]

This is a complete nonissue. The internet is way too full of entitled bleeding hearts, who get offended by anything. As if their offence should matter. It's nothing more than whining - I would pay no heed to it, if I were you.

[rriverstone1]

This is the first time I've said this out loud where he might see it: I am afraid of Gary; I don't want anything to do with him, his trolls, etc. I don't need anymore trauma or drama in my life. Frankly, that's why you haven't seen me on YouDoubled, either. His followers have histories of little self control or respect for others. So, think what courage it takes for me to post this comment here. I've had enough cruelty to last twenty life times and don't want one of his wannabes in my life.

[Ioganstone]

@rriverstone1 SO BRAVE /s

[lapisredux]

he,s a car mechanic but he refuses to talk about the subject,i for one would find him far more approachable if he would show us round the workshop once in a while...it,s a worthy career and nothing to be ashamed of.

[raindog951]

These people should grow up. Like little kids in the playground.

[FriendOregon]

So is the problem that people don't want to be on site that inmendham is on? Is the cloud inmendham or the crowd?

[SatiricalStewie]

I dont understand. These people I assume post videos on Youtube of which Gary is a participating member, whats the difference with Youdoubled.

[sWeepingsAnd]

I won't join the site unless Inmendham is on it.

[conferencereport]

@sWeepingsAnd :)

[raindog951]

@conferencereport Funny comment, but valid. Gary makes YouTube an interesting place....And he has a great Cat too....

[PsyberSourcerer]

2. He doesn't realise that smart people following anti-natalism will decrease the average IQ and increase the amount of suffering.

3, The premise that humans are poo - in reality humans are amazing creatures, with individuals capable of mind-blowing feats,

4. The premise that suffering is real, but joy (or a lack of suffering) is illusionary. This is arbitrary and illogical.

5. The premise that we create nothing - we do create, we create intangibles like language and story.

There's more, too

[IndifferentSky]

@PsyberSourcerer Part 3. He is fully aware that lower IQ people have more kids, that is the status quo. Antinatalism means everyone stop giving birth and all sentient life go extinct, so the IQ of some people is irrelevant. Number three is your perspective with not many facts to back it up. You would lose that debate because the way humans fail are in very serious ways and the ways they don't are fluff compared to genocides, etc. 4 Joy doesn't have to be an illusion (cont)

[IndifferentSky]

@PsyberSourcerer part 4. You're not stacking joy up against the negatives. Name a joy and tell me how that takes care of someone in excruciating pain or measures up against even one genocide. It doesn't. That's the argument, and you have not dealt with that. Finally our creation of language, ok. that does not stop the misery that's been going on for tens of thousands of years, torture murder genocides rapes diseases famines, and we move ahead slowly for no reason.

[PsyberSourcerer]

@conferencereport : If you want to defeat @immendham I am afraid the easiest way t do that is to refute his logic. He goes to a lot of trouble to make coherent, water-tight arguments; but, the facts that he bases his arguments on are not widely accepted.

1. The premise that most people resent their parents for creating them. I think this is actually a very, very rare sentiment.

(continued)

[IndifferentSky]

@PsyberSourcerer Your comment is so hilarious I want to do a video on it, but I'm too busy, maybe later. One, you're "afraid" the "easiest" way to defeat Inmendham is to refute his logic. This statement makes no sense, and your assumption that CR wants to defeat him in any way shows you have not watched this vid. lol. Then you go on to say that the facts he bases his arguments on "are not widely accepted" wut? First of all, are they facts, and secondly, fallacy of argument from popularity.(cont)

[IndifferentSky]

@PsyberSourcerer Part 2 it does not matter if "facts" are not widely accepted if they are facts, and it does not matter if they are not facts but opinions. Wide acceptance means nothing. You're just using words without meaning here. So first you state his PREMISE is that most people resent their parents for having them. This is INCORRECT. He does not think this and it's not a premise! Yes, it's a rare sentiment. Your comprehension must be pretty low if you have listened and drawn that conclusion

[2bsirius]

I wish more people would engage Inmenham and if they disagree his 'infallible logic', they would say why. Yes, they'll be put on the list of those he considers to have 'slandered' him. They'll likely be accused of being a troll or of having sock accounts. [It's an untrue accusation that's been thrown at me many times.] BUT if no one is willing to discuss why they disagree with him, then the whole thing devolves into a bunch of sycophants giving unexamined support and that's not healthy imho

[conferencereport]

@2bsirius As long as the options are only 'engage' or 'ignore' the system will always be weak. The comments on this video, including yours, pretty much demonstrate that.

[2bsirius]

@conferencereport

What other option is there? Creating insular groups or hubs away from the maddening crowds and not allowing any dissenting voices into the discussion? Or should that be called "gradated separations" and "filters" for those who are just not like us...You know, not our kind of people? Does that seem like a better choice? If so, why?

[conferencereport]

@2bsirius I'm not interested in insular groups or the quieting of dissenting voices, and I'm certainly not arguing for the discrimination you hint at in you penultimate sentence, as I'm sure you know. I'm suggesting that a more complex (but still intuitive) space would allow more nuanced interactions than simply engage or ignore. Just like real life really.

[2bsirius]

@conferencereport

" I'm certainly not arguing for the discrimination you hint" It was a question not a hint. Btw Inmendham has said he thinks he should be able to say "It's either some person he objects or him." That is, he should be able to issue an ultimatum and have a person he wants to claim is a liar or of low character jettisoned (an unfounded claim he's often made about me, coincidentally). I would never make such demands. Free speech isn't about for convenience & comfort of 1 person

[2bsirius]

(2) It's about letting someone who disagrees and someone who even makes unfounded attacks on your character have his say because not to do so is to control free speech. Sometimes I do feel a bit like the American presidential cabinet member who asked, "Where do I go to get my reputation back?"

[conferencereport]

@2bsirius I'm not comfortable talking about people in the third person so I'm going to generalise this. Consensual confrontation is fine, but non-consensual confrontation isn't. YT provides a space where we are crowded together in ways which are counter-productive to the kinds of interactions you say that you want. Personally I'd prefer a space with a bit of elbow room where I can pick my fights and where different people can get the difference comforts they want.

[2bsirius]

@conferencereport Just for clarification and to eliminate all euphemism...Are you saying that I have somehow accosted Gary? Hmmm....Is that the point?

[2bsirius]

OK, since Gary read all comment I'll address him directly. Gary, you have spent four years saying a lot of horrible things about me. You have said I'm a liar. You've said I have no character and that people should unsub from me. Why? Because you thought I was a Jew for a while and then because I told you and everyone on YT that I was not, you got very angry. Why had you thought I was Jewish to begin with? Because I had a relative who had strong opinions about how the Nazis had dealt with those

[2bsirius]

(2) who were too sick to work or who were too old or too young to be of use. You were sure that they had not used lethal Zyklon B to eliminate these prisoners. I thought and still think differently. And I think that after listening to my relative talk about his experiences at the end of World War II at the liberation of Buchenwald and after doing a lot of research into primary sources which date from WWII archives.

[2bsirius]

(3) You only know I'm not Jewish because I finally told you. You would still think I was Jewish if I had not done so. Now read this out loud and talk about how abused and slandered you feel.

[conferencereport]

@2bsirius Last orders at the bar please.  Haven't you got homes to go to? Take it outside lads.

[2bsirius]

@conferencereport

You have no idea...but OK I get that you're NOT passive aggressive. You are the unbiased arbiter of fair play and justice.

OK...Last orders. I'm out the door.

[DaveAllenDaveAllen]

@2bsirius Did you not say in one of your own vids that you had wanted to give people the impression you were Jewish in order to see if their demeanor on the subject of what was/wasn't accurate about the holocaust changed?

[2bsirius]

@DaveAllenDaveAllen

I said that I let people who had concluded I was Jewish to continue to think that. I guess I should have corrected the mistake immediately. I did before very much time had elapsed, but I did not do so immediately.

[conferencereport]

@2bsirius I really don't know how you could possibly have arrived at that conclusion K. I really don't.

[KillingKeymo]

I WUB GARY! <3

[MJBTelevisioOy]

People don't want to join a site...because they don't like someone's style/perspective and are afraid that they'll say something not-so-nice or actually have to confront a differing point of view...no courage. Just cowardice.

[Refreshernoob]

ignore him or sumthing

[rozeboosje]

I'm not really interested in a number of people, and I don't engage with them. But if the sort of "gap" that you speak up presents itself I'll watch what needs to be watched in order to catch up. (shrug). What I find weird is how people who won't join YD because of Gary's presence are on YT. Isn't he there, too?

[gratex]

Cloud? Hot air.

[inmendham]

@gratex ...actually a cloud is what clean clear cold air condenses out of the puffy blowers of hot air.

[nephthysuk]

Basically if there are no bad feelings and history then everyone needs to grow up, if there are bad feelings and history then you just can't mix those people together.

[petermaquire]

It's silly. I don't care about being on the same website as inmendham, I would only be concerned with being on a website where he had some sort of editorial control over other user's content.

[ForeverWolfFilms]

Man, what a bunch of pussies... 

[zarkoff45]

How do you solve a problem like Inmendham? How do you catch a cloud and pin it down? How do you find a word that means Inmendham? An Efilist! A psychopath! A clown! Many a thing you know you'd like to tell him Many a thing he ought to understand But how do you make him stay And listen to all you say How do you keep a wave upon the sand Oh, how do you solve a problem like Inmendham? How do you hold a brain-fart in your hand?

[TheALGAYDA]

@zarkoff45 When I hear him I'm confused, out of focus and bemused and I never know exactly where I am.Unpredictable as weather

He's just trying to make things better.

An Antinatalist !He's a demon! And you get mad?!

[IndifferentSky]

@zarkoff45 that was great, love that you know sound of music, and the algayda's response funny as well.

[Yamikaiba123]

I find it odd that people would use Youtube when there are loads of users (literally millions) they would rather have nothing to do with, but won't use Youdoubled because there's just this one guy.

My first impression is 'touchy-feely party-poopers'.

[LucidPhilosophy]

use the atmosphere?  that works pretty well for catching clouds, lots of space for them to roam around. They are mutable but are confined within boundaries, so they have the illusion of a sense of freedom but they are trapped.

[72daystar]

I have suspected Gary was a Strategic Poe who doesn't really believe in antinatalism. My guess is he just wants people to stop wasting their lives and do something worthwhile.

[TWITfromURANUS]

Personally, i don't give a monkeys about gaps in my experience... i see far too much already.

& Gary being a 'bully' (or something thereabouts) ? -- That's probably why some people are his 'friend'. (But they probably tell themselves they're being like Jesus or something ¦:¬)

[Maozang]

Filters? Force people to label their uploads using a standardized well defined set of labels to reflect the style. Then the user can uncheck that style in their settings, thusly filtering out all the videos that are headstrong like inmendham's or whatever else might displease.. Alternatively introduce a higher tier block, like a "suppress reality" button that would hide a users content from view or show it as "hidden" in similar fashion to what happens to comments with too many thumbs down.

[conferencereport]

@Maozang Filters is a good metaphor I think. I'm thinking in similar terms of porous layers that both connect and separate us from and to each other. The space of YT is too undifferentiated to allow for more gradiated separations than 'ignore' or 'applaud'

[br0kenmech]

Invite me to your site and inmendham will leave. lol. 

[xxxild]

I like the fact that when I came in, he was there. I cant keep up with him here, so, in the smaller community I may actually be able to hear some of his arguments, I hope.

[alowlyapprentice]

Actually, this same problem happens IRL all the time. Say there is a guy that is at the bar every time your are there. You don't like him. You have the same pool of friends, so you hang out on the other side of the bar. But you notice half of the time your friends are over at the other side of the bar with the guy you don't like.

What do you do, and can you deal with the results of your actions and how they make you feel?

[conferencereport]

@alowlyapprentice We need a longer bar

[GirlyVoice]

The only thing I can think of is for people posting videos to accomodate for the possibility that viewers might not want to watch a user whose ideas or videos are being responded to, by providing sufficient context. Thats probably asking a bit much.

[GirlyVoice]

@GirlyVoice Inmendham is an interesting case though because (at least when I was subbed to him) he seemed to act as a sort of hub, he would do videos on the atheist community in general or start stickam sessions. This surely adds value to those who watch him but its sort of unfortunate to have someone like InMendham as a hub because you're deprived of oportunities to become aware of interesting users and conversations if you don't like watching him.

[GirlyVoice]

@GirlyVoice So in the case of in the case of dislikeable 'hub' people, make new hubs! All in all though I think unsubbing is sufficient for most of us, having gaps in the conversation is an unfortunate bi-product but not tragic in most cases.

[conferencereport]

@GirlyVoice Thinking in plural terms of something like 'hubs' is good. Maybe it would be better if the primary unit of engagement was something like a wheel (including a hub) rather than an individual. Groups rather than Channels.

[Yamikaiba123]

@GirlyVoice Yeah, I thought what Gary would do with Stickam was cool, but I did realize everyone had to go easy, because if someone said something he didn't like, they would get kicked immediately. The odd thing is that I like the guy- and yet I'm on edge whenever I visit his Stickam room.

[IndifferentSky]

What they are doing is passive aggressive, controlling, and bullying. Likely exactly the way they act on this site, just a hunch.

[Gameboygenius]

It's a "don't think of an elephant" type of problem, isn't it. Just the thought of him being on there will deter some people.

Maybe you could have an "Hide Inmendham" mode when you sign up. Then when you ad a video, you need to certify that it's "100% free of mentions of Inmendham" or else it won't show up to people with "Hide Inmendham" mode turned on. That would be something...

[IndifferentSky]

Yeah, my friend and I have Sound Of Music queued up and ready for watching today. So funny. Love that song.

[sausage4mash]

they don't have to watch his video's ?! if they're that sensitive then get off the Internet or play yahoo scrabble or something .you could I guess have a hide video's from user button, but I think that would pandering to the narrow minded and intolerant .laisser faire is the best policy ,if you don't like Garry then do a video explaining why ,sticking your head in the sand is just pathetic ,really.

[wonderpope]

the Inmendham conundrum of social media...a tricky one that is

[gedgetips]

Yeah, this concern seems odd since avoiding Inmendham should be easy enough w/o anything special in options. He is not inclined to wax forth at length in comments & so if ppl don't like his vids then no need to view 'em. I would think it would be more of a reverse concern from one so inclined to block people and monitor their comments on the vids of others when mentioning him. This concern w/ unwanted contact & attention seems more inmendhamish than it would generally apply to his non-fans.

[BTinHD]

that's interesting. I just had been to youdoubled to check it out for the first time. When I saw Inmendham it turn me off straight away, When i thought about why I did not know. Negative feelings came into my mind. If I remember correctly, his account had been suspended? He was hassling 2bsirus? I haven't even watched any of his videos. anyway.

[TheLaughingOut]

I'm no fan of Inmendham's. I disagree with most of what he says and I think that the way he presents himself is... let's just say I think it's bad.

But who the hell cares? I do the same thing on YouDoubled as I do on YouTube. I either don't watch him or I watch him until the video starts pissing me off and then I do this neat little thing with my mouse that I like to call "clicking" and I do the "clicking" over something I call a "link" and then the big scary man disappears.

[SkidRowRadio]

dont click on his vids. there, sorted.

man what a silly thing to complain about.

[eydos]

@SkidRowRadio lol

[WeirdUniverse]

if you've implemented a "hide user" option to make a a specific user's comments/videos/responses etc invisible you've done your job as well as can be expected.  a person can't expect to be totally mollycoddled!

[Loreleila]

Which of us are one anothers keeper?

[KoningStoma]

That's just childish.

[Hritzness]

I guess tell them, politely, "tough shit"?

[IzzySpeaks]

inmendem is a shithole. Why are you excusing him? He is the best reason to not be there plain and simple/

[TheLaughingOut]

@IzzySpeaks Gary's on YouTube too.

[IzzySpeaks]

@TheLaughingOut Gary is like herpes

[arknihil]

@IzzySpeaks

Great argument!  Thumbs up!

[Arbfor]

Why are you friends with Gary?