Part 4 of 4 Why I Am Not a Christian - Bertrand Russell

[mikelheron20]

You wouldn't recognise truth if it bit you on the ass. (You know your ass don't you? - it's the part of your anatomy you talk out of.) And so, according to you, because Russell made a mistake (he didn't, but let that go) and arrived at the wrong conclusions, he's condemned to Hell? Seems fair.

[OktarHunoglu]

A good world needs knowledge, kindliness, and courage; it does not need a regretful hankering after the past or a fettering of the free intelligence by the words uttered long ago by ignorant men. It needs a fearless outlook and a free intelligence. It needs hope for the future, not looking back all the time toward a past that is dead, which we trust will be far surpassed by the future that our intelligence can create.

[OktarHunoglu]

When you hear people in church debasing themselves and saying that they are miserable sinners, and all the rest of it, it seems contemptible and not worthy of self-respecting human beings. We ought to stand up and look the world frankly in the face. We ought to make the best we can of the world and if it is not so good as we wish after all it will still be better than what these others have made of it in all these ages.

[OktarHunoglu]

What We Must Do: We want to stand upon our own feet and look fair and square at the world its good facts, its bad facts, its beauties, and its ugliness; see the world as it is and be not afraid of it. Conquer the world by intelligence and not merely by being slavishly subdued by the terror that comes from it. The whole conception of God is a conception derived from the ancient Oriental despotisms. It is a conception quite unworthy of free men.

[CKelaiditis]

I'm so glad I'm not the only tree-hater ^^

[MegaWaylander]

RIP Berty. One truely great man.



[ianww8]

Thanks for the post Viper - Betrand Russel was a genious - his intellect is bewildering, when you realise he was of the victorian age - how insiteful and brave of him to have expressed his views during that time, something we today might take for granted given the clarity of the modern age! He lived and died near to me - but despite being a fellow Welshman, I was unaware of him until recently -which just goes to show how much my christian teachers were afraid of his kind I suppose!

[Bummercund]

Excellent!

[macroman52]

Russell is perhaps interpreting the Fig Tree parable, which I assume was constructed by Mark, rather more literally than Mark intended.

[brewerbrian420]

I think Bertrand is wrong on the god subject, for only a god could speak with such eloquence. Therefore I think Bertrand is God. Just a thought.

Great post ViperVisor, I actually just finished Bertrand's book "On God & Religion" and it was awesome as well as inspiring. Again thanks for the post.

[Anglican08]

"....every moral progress that there has been in the world has been constistently oppossed by the organsied churches of the world." Sorry but this is simply empirically false, Infanticide was widely practiced in the Pre-Christian Roman Empire, (Carr-Saunders, 1922, p258) but was stopped by the rise of Christianity . It was widely practiced in early Arabia until the rise of Islam. (A.M Carr-Saunders, 1922, p259) & (Smith 1903). Cleary not every form of moral progess has been opposed by religion.

[aepceo1]

@Anglican08 Consistently is not defined as an absolute. It's an average. More than less.

[Anglican08]

@aepceo1 But then, lets say we had a list of moral advances, at what point does oppostion to moral advances become consistent oppostion? 51%? 60%? 75%?

Plus there's still the problem that not every agrees on what a moral advance is. That's one of the reasons we do politics, as Aristotle pointed out. Of course you'd have to be mad or bad today to argue that the abolition of slavery wasn't a moral advance but other areas are much less clear.

[aepceo1]

@Anglican08 Anything over 50% is a tipping percentage. Average is defined more one number than another. So it's more 100% than 0% if at anything about 50%. As far as the rest, I have nothing to argue with you on there.

[henchmen999]

1 christian listened to this lol

[Ramohog]

Boy that was a dumbed down lecture based on wrong assumptions and gross lack of understanding on all the points this, illuminati bloodline deceiver, made. That's where philosophy and vain deceit, pea brain worldy head knowldge and a limited sensory mechanism will take you.

People who will accept this as truthful are dumbed down. Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge.

[SlayersOfTrolls]

@Ramohog I like how you call it "a dumbed down lecture based on wrong assumptions" and then use a book - one with no good reason to be believed - to disprove it. Are you trolling?

[Ramohog]

@SlayersOfTrolls I just can't stand deception. God's Word is a more sure Word of prophecy with documented history and currents world affairs backing it up. Many people are destroyed for lack of knowledge, because they are told what to think and not how to think. They let authority be the truth rather than truth be the authority. Bertrand was deceiver being deceived himself with a pophesied agenda behind it, which you are obviously oblivious to. Gotta wake up and get saved while you still can!

[jamafrican657]

lol, Limited sensory eh? Bertrand has 'objectively' carried out more acts of good , than any silk-suit wearing TV preacher has, the guy spoke out against Hitler for Christ's sake. Yourself as a man of god, is sat on his pc criticizing a matter that need not concern him if he is to carry out the 'lord's' work, but no, here you are spewing out pretentious bullshit ,only as a means to masturbate your ego. If you listen to other lectures he adds extra dimensionality to this ontology ;) .

[jamafrican657]

@Ramohog Besides this video has 9,007 views, why don't you take your rants to a more influential organization/individual of today like a Justin Bieber video, where the real brainwashing is taking place. Something in the clarity of his statements has drawn you here lol.

[Ramohog]

@jamafrican657 I'm just stunned about his wrong assumptions and lack of understanding, which tells me even more about people accepting this dumbed down nonsense. A friend was impressed with his book, so I needed to find out what is was about. That's how I came to this vid, and I'm glad I did, so I'm aware of the philosophy and vain deceit of people like this.

[jamafrican657]

@Ramohog I understand what your are saying brother but I feel a lot of what he says requires one's own observation of the world, not what some book that has been refined over and over again (bible) and if your talking about lack of understanding and assumption then what version of the bible are you reading? Ok this is an extremely biased attack at the church of England ( being from that time and having your entire family involved with this belief along with being an intellect).

[jamafrican657]

@Ramohog But you cannot deny that a lot of his points are extremely accurate especially the part about the church of England holding back the knowledge of millions, for instance the myth about the sun orbiting us - Galileo was almost killed for his discovery. I don't think he is attacking faith (which is important in any aspect of life, whatever religion) He is clearly attacking the way the religion has been exploited by the hierarchy as a means to 'dumb' people down.

[Ramohog]

@jamafrican657 Yes he does make the classic mistake of comparing organized religion with Bible based Christianity which actually exposes the fallacies of organized religion. This is the dumbed down shortsighted view I was talking about, and then he goes on to promote the gnostic deception of luciferianism, as a good illuminati bloodline deceiver ought to.

The 1611 KJV based on the textus receptus backed up by 5556 ancient manuscripts is the true preserved Word of God.

[jamafrican657]

@Ramohog You make a good point, what is your view on the 'Sri Isopinisad' from the Hinduism belief in regards to receiving transcendental knowledge from the 'God-Head' (god of gods)? Also can I ask your age, I am only 22 -understand the deceptive times I have lived through. I still have a lot of searching to do.

[Ramohog]

@j All organized religion and all the isms are from the luciferian spirit of the antichrist, which we are called to test and discern in order to not be deceived. The only way to do that is receive God's Holy Spirit through faith in the revelations and manifestations of God, backed up by prophecy and proven accurate through true history. Otherwise you will always be looking and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. God does nothing without revealing it first, so we are without excuse.

[jamafrican657]

@Ramohog I will think on this most definitely. Kind exchange of knowledge, excuse me for my abruptness earlier on. all the best.

[jamafrican657]

@Ramohog There are far to many 'isms' in this world for my liking and with such rapid access to this knowledge on a daily basis, can you blame our generation for being this paranoid?

[ianww8]

@Ramohog - So... for how long have you been a 'free thinker' then? Who guides you on how to think freely? - dont tell me... Let me guess... Is it a book, written in the Late Iron Age, by men who had an agenda and their beleifs rooted back in the Bronze Age?!

Where is the Athiests' book?! We dont have one - Why? because we think freely!

[Ramohog]

@ianww8 It's a more sure Word of prophecy as the foundation of truth, inspired by God who declares the end from the beginning, and we have true science, true documented history and current world affairs backing it up all the way.

The Holy Spirit leads and guides into all truth so we would not be so easily deceived.

Atheist indeed have nothing since it's all just a random coincidence without any meaning, plan or purpose anyway. Dumbed down closet pantheism, and not even recognizing it!

[ianww8]

@Ramohog So, you have faith in how humans from a long time ago tried to make sence of this complex world - a faith so strong, that youre unable to see the real evidence, and the god hypothesis has never been proven?! Show me the evidence and I'm on your side! However, (continued...)

[ianww8]

@Ramohog So, you have faith in how humans from a long time ago tried to make sence of this complex world - a faith so strong, that youre unable to see the real evidence, which is that the god hypothesis has never been proven?! Show me the credible evidence of a god, and I'm on your side! However, until then please listen to the real evidence - which, by 21st century critical thinking shows there is no support for the god hypothesis! (continued...)

[ianww8]

@Ramohog (contd...) I was brought up a christian, and I'm so glad that the christian god doesnt exist - because behind the superficial 'niceness', he is a mean, ruthless, heartless, selfish and biggoted piece of work - assuming the books written about 'him' are correct of course! Science is open minded enough to accept that, if credible evidence becomes available for a god, it would embrace such an entity. (continued...)

[ianww8]

@Ramohog (contd...) All I know, is that if such an unlikely entity exists, it wont be anything like any of the 'abrihamic gods' - which is just about as bad as a god could ever be! No wonder so many people like you are living in fear of speaking against him, and are consequently fighting against everyone around you who dont think like you! Fear brings out the worst in us - you lot are living proof of that!

[Ramohog]

@ianww8 You are the one who is ignorant of true science, because of wrong assumptions based on falsefied facts, causing people to come to the wrong conclusions. Matter + enerrgy + entropy will never create and sustain life by itself. You need added information to process the energy, and information able to do work or communicate a message is habitually association with intelligence.

By the way micro evolution supports degeneration and genetic entropy and has biological boundaries!



[ianww8]

@Ramohog Now I know your level! Square peg fits round hole syndrome! That's not science! I am open minded enough to have not made any conclusions - there is a part of my athiest mindset that would be prepared to accept a god, if the credible evidence was there - but its not. Add to that, most of the bible bashers I've ever come accros, seem incredibly arrogant and closed mind that I know its impossible to have a proper discussion with such a narrow mind. What sect are you from I wonder?

[Ramohog]

@ianww8 No it's all researched out to the max, and coming to the right conclusions based on the factual evidence and solid reasoning. I'm from the sect that believes nothing and researches eveything, realizing that organized religion is a huge deception, and gets totally exposed by the Word of God, who reveals relationship motivated by love and activated by faith. Bertrand Russel as well as you don't make the distinction between oraganized religion and true Bibllical faith. Huge fallacy!

[ianww8]

@Ramohog - one final point: You say, '...Atheist... have nothing since it's all just a random coincidence without any meaning, plan or purpose...' How arrogant and blinkered of you! All the athiests I know are marvelled by the wonders of the universe, which, as science has unravelled, is certainly not random or coincidental at all! As for purpose or plan - why should there be one?! You would only think that, if you thought we humans were more important than we really are!

[Ramohog]

@ianww8 The evidence is of God is in the cosmic fine-tuning of the anthropic constants on the macrocosm, and the sequential information, genetic algorithmic coding/ decoding, structure and design of the self replicating, error correcting nanotech minicomputers that we call cells on the microcosm. All this clearly testifies of an external causal intelligent agent due to the cause and effect structure, instead of random coincidence.

[ianww8]

@Ramohog You are brainwashed beyond reason! In which case, please dont waste your time and mine any more by talking absolute bollox! I realise that you christians have to wear your 'hair shirt' and engage with us non beleivers to get your gold stars, but please, go preach your ridiculous delusions with someone whom you might be able to 'convert', because I am most certainly of the opposite view to you! This is were our discussion ends, goodbye!

[Ramohog]

@ianww8 Oh so now you resort to general accusations, which is is a typical mind controlled reation to the truth.

Demosthenes, we've known that ridicule is the last refuge of a scoundrel in an argument. Someone who's lost the argument, cause they can't answer the point with evidence or argumentation: calls the other person a name, so people don't listen. And when your reduced to that, you've lost the debate!"

Please be specific on which points you don't agree so I can clarify.

[ianww8]

@Ramohog M8 - I have absolutely no intention to continue this discussion with you - you have demonstrated clearly that you are a narrow minded biggot who s unable to have a proper, intelligent discussion; so, as I've already said, our discussion has ended, so you call me whatever name you like if that makes you feel better, and makes you look better in the eyes of your god, but please, go bash your bible elsewhere - leave me alone! Goodbye!

[Ramohog]

@ianww8 This was never a discussion, because you did not address any of my claims or even try to refute them, with critical taught or sound reasoning. Instead you resort to general accusations. A great way to remain ignorant. This whole Bertrand Russell talk was a wonderful display of wrong assumptions, no wonder you blindly believed his twisted reasoning. Truly pathetic if you would investigate it more thoroughly, but you rather buy the lie, to justify your own deception I guess.

[ianww8]

@Ramohog Yawn! Youre boring us now! zzzzzzz

[Ramohog]

@ianww8 Yes go back to sleep and remain ignorant, deceived and destracted. I do hope you wake up and do proper research by digging through the main stream deception to find the real truth!

[ianww8]

@Ramohog Ha ha! I've already done that, thanks! See you on the other side perhaps?! ;)

[Ramohog]

@ianww8 No you won't. Not if you follow the path you are on. Get filled with the power, love, wisdom and comfort of God in the form of the Holy Spirit, so you will know the truth and not be so easily deceived.

[ianww8]

@Ramohog lol - you dont understand irony, do you. I was taking the pi55 numbty! Right, I'd love to waste my life chatting, but I have a life to live, g'night!

[Ramohog]

@ianww8 I don't understand wilful ignorance. Did you see the other vid..... Pretty amazing don't you think?

[mikelheron20]

@Ramohog What and have to spend eternity with people like you? No thanks, I'd rather go to the other place. I can't think of anything worse than an eternity with moralising, self-righteous, hypocritical, judgmental, mentally-deficient Christians.

[Ramohog]

@mikelheron20 Oh so you have a problem with the truth and rather exchange it for a lie. That's typical. Two reasons why people don't believe in God. They either have bought the lie or don't like to be held accountable, which leads to enslavement of intellectual pride and sensual lust. Funny that you think you know me through and through based on a few comments. Please take the truth as the authority instead of authority as the truth.

[mikelheron20]

@Ramohog I may not have known you before, but I do now. You have confirmed my first impression. Take the time to reread your own comment and (if you can get to end without falling asleep - it's not easy) ask yourself this question: Why would anyone want to spend eternity with a pompous,self-righteous, moralising prick like you?

[Ramohog]

@mikelheron20 It may seem like that, because I'm standing up for the truth, because if you believe Russell with all his wrong assumptions you will end up in hell, because it totally lacks proper understanding. My righteousness is in Christ and I praise God for saving me from this mind controlled deception that we are living in. We are told what to think and not how to think, and therefore walking around deceived by wilful ignorance, which is a sad but prophesied condition of the human race.

[mikelheron20]

@Ramohog Russell devoted his life to learning HOW to think and helping others to do so. Christianity and all religions are in the business of telling people WHAT to think. I doubt if you've ever read anything that Russell wrote.Russell on the other hand was very well read in the scrIptures. Mind you, in my experience, most atheists, and that includes me, are much better acquainted with the Bible and other religious texts than most Christians.I like to know about something before I reject it.

[Ramohog]

@mikelheron20 Russell has luciferian thinking because he is from an illuminati bloodline. He makes wrong assumptions that can easily be refuted. Judge not is based on hypocritical judgment. I know how Russel thinks and where it comes from. If you buy into that line of thought you will be deceived, which has the default setting to destruction. There is a way that seems right to a man but the end thereof are the ways of death. Atheist have bought the lie despite the evidence for God!

[mikelheron20]

@Ramohog I only read the first sentence of your garbage. Go get yourself a good psychiatrist - and put him on protection money.

[Ramohog]

@mikelheron20 Destroyed for lack of knowledge. Wisdom is the principal thing and in all your getting get understanding. Seek and you shall find. So far you have bought the lie and walk around mind controlled and deceived by meditating on the wrong information. I hope you wake up and snap out of it.

[mikelheron20]

@Ramohog Just out of morbid curiosity - how do you manage to type in a straitjacket?

[Ramohog]

@mikelheron2 Why... for loving and researching the truth. How old are you... 12? Russell makes contiuous wrong assumption when it comes to the true faith. He makes the claasic mistake of comparing organized religion with Biblical truth, while God's inspired Word exposes organized religion. That's the biggest fallacy which caused him to come to the wrong conclusions and reject the revelations and the manifestations of God. Professing to be wise he became a fool and his heart was darkened.

[sooper2dooper3]

@Ramohog looks to me like mikelheron2 won this argument with you. His intelligent words when placed next to your unintelligible babble quite amused me.

[Ramohog]

@sooper2dooper3 That's because you are meditating on the wrong information, which has the default setting of coming to the wrong conclusion. I love general accusations, since mocking is always the defence of pride.

[mikelheron20]

@Ramohog It amuses me that in spite of Christ's clear message "Judge not lest ye be judged" and "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone" etc. etc. you still feel it appropriate to announce that I am destined for Hell.

[Ramohog]

@ianww My conclusion is that there is intelligence behind it all, and that this intelligence makes Himself known through His revelations and His manifestations backed up by prophecy, proven accurate through documented history and current world affairs. Science is just playing catch-up with what God has revealed all along. I choose intelligence over randomness. You might have been a deceived name Christian but you never got born again, and have exchanged the truth for a lie. Repent and seek God!

[aeslkjfhghae]

@whistful100

"Numerous people who have been brought back to life, have reported they had a conscious experience while they were dead."

Yeah, because those reports are so very reliable because the people that reported those experiences were completely lucid and in their right mind. Oh wait, they were dead/near dead.

[whistful100]

I'm not concerned that he is atheist,and not agnostic. His view was still a narrow one, which conveys limitation. I never stated he was narrow-minded, which infers bias and bigotry. His discourse was limited to an intellectual analysis, If he had undertaken years of rigorous spiritual practices, he may have reached different conclusions. I'm not interested in whether you agree with that, nor am I trying to win some perceived argument. Who has the authority to say their interpretation is right.

[whistful100]

Russells argument against religious dogma is a valid one. However his claim that there is no God depends overly on his own narrow view of the divine. Science is continually revising its theories, and quantum physics has changed our understanding of reallity. Numerous people who have been brought back to life, have reported they had a conscious experience while they were dead. Obviously there's alot more to existence, than can be explained by the reasoning of an intellectual gymnast

[OhmgrownCron]

@whistful100 And what is a "Conscious experience?" And would you not say to them, they could be wrong in thier view, how the brain can fail and does fail quite a bit. How is it narrow-minded, that Bertrand Russell who takes the arguments by the theists and extinguishes them with humility and reason? I don't think Russell would disagree with todays scientists.

[whistful100]

@OhmgrownCron You mistakenly confuse narrow mindedness with a particular opinion that is derived from an individuals personal beliefs. Those beliefs on a particular subject can be narrow, especially if knowledge, and experience is limited by ignorance. Conscious experience is continued awareness, that may or not be connected to brain activity. Scientists can hardly agree among themselves, so much of it is based on theories. People usually agree with what reinforces their own views.

[OhmgrownCron]

@whistful100 ...Beliefs that he chose AFTER regarding the arguments for God. How is he Narrow-minded? Because he's not agnostic?? There is no evidence to support the mind-body-spirit relationship. Just because scientists can't agree on certain subjects does not validate anyone's argument, truth is based on the evidence and not the authority who studies it. Neuroscience is showing more and more evidence that there is no reason for a spirit, or, "consciousness."

[Khosro192]

What about the debate which Russel had with Father Caplestone about existence of God which was the ending part of his book? I`ve lost that book and I`m desperate to have access of that content again.

[Guitarplay54]

Overall this is a brilliant discussion. I love how he draws upon classical philosophical arguments to make his point, but he adds his own remarkable analysis and insight. The only major criticism I would have is how Russell categorizes religion as being a static non-changing entity that supports an old dogmatic anti-humanistic world view. I incline more so towards an approach like that of Daniel Dennett, who views religion as a naturalistic phenomenon that is constantly changing and evolving.

[SpriterShard]

That was literally one of the most incredible things I've ever heard.

[HerrMaladroitMann]

I must say the eloquence in speech and the verve which resonates in his voice is captivating and has completely blown my mind.I hung on every word.An incredible mind.I am so thankful that such a man ever existed.

[eahazell]

109 like 0 dislike weeeee

[strattgatt]

The fig tree represents Israel being set aside. Morality is not the aim of the bible. Just as Moses the lawgiver was not allowed to enter the promised land. So too, morality can only take you to the place of realizing you need a savior. It was Joshua who led the people into the promised land. The name Joshua means "The LORD is salvation" which is exactly where morality should lead us. Morality should lead to the need for a savior because we are all sinners. Then we can enter in.

[strattgatt]

@strattgatt Non-christians seem to be inept at understanding scripture to any degree. I suppose because they are spiritually dead.

[eahazell]

@strattgatt most christians can't understand scripture so I suppose they are spiritually dead as well. I've met many an illiterate and inept christian who has no idea what all is in their book of faery tales.Or fail to understand it.

[kaga13]

@strattgatt It's god fault 'we are all sinners'. Most Christians don't realize this.

[strattgatt]

@kaga13 Why? Because he gave us freewill? Just because God gives you a penis doesn't mean it's His fault that someone abuses kids with it. Blaming others for your mistakes is not a sign of growth.

[kaga13]

@strattgatt Yes it is, he created us sick and demands us to be well, it's God's fault that humans are 'sinners', I am not growing because I side with your god.

[strattgatt]

@kaga13 No, he didn't create us sick. We became sick during the fall of Adam. At least if you mean "sick" as in "sinner." Nice try though.

[kaga13]

@strattgatt It really hurts your case that was never an adam or an eve or a talking snake; and even if there was that only implies that God let the fall happen in the first place....

[strattgatt]

@kaga13 I am not the one who is mad at God. Perhaps you are the one hurting. My case is air tight and has been around and will continue to be around.

[kaga13]

@strattgatt Neither the age of your claims, nor the # of people who believe them, nor the convictions of the people who believe lend any credence to the truth value of your claims. Your case is nowhere near air tight. I'm not mad at God, I was a Christian for over 20 years and didn't have bad experiences; I was even an alter boy and I wasn't raped or anything like that. I just found there's no reason to believe in Christianity's supernatural claims, among other things.

[strattgatt]

@kaga13 Oh! An alter boy! That makes sense. I am so sorry for you.

[kaga13]

@strattgatt wow, no more intellectual arguments all you can do is throw the no true scottsman fallacy because I was a Catholic and somehow not a 'true' Christian? You think I was raped and got mad at God or something? Give me a fucking break.

[strattgatt]

@kaga13 Well, since you brought it up, I wouldn't refer to Catholics as Christians.

[kaga13]

@strattgatt Yeah, they're only the biggest denomination of Christianity in the world and have the exact same basic beliefs as every other Christian sect in the world; that doesn't mean anything, freaking a.

[strattgatt]

@kaga13 I think if you looked into it you would realize that #1 Catholics believe in salvation by works not by grace. #2 They believe the pope is God's emissary on earth which no other sect believes. #3 There version of "christianity" was simply a way for Rome to spread its influence. (hence the common belief that all religions are used to control people) #4 they are prophesied against in the bible itself. #5 About 500 years all the Christians in the world broke away from catholicism officially

[OdinLowe]

@strattgatt

Uhhhhhhhhh the reformation happened much more than 500 years after the advent of Roman Catholicism

[joelhewitt]

@strattgatt

Ask yourself this and use logic to answer it; Why would God create a place of bliss, peace and serenity A.K.A Garden Of Eden, and plant a forbidden Tree in the middle of it and tell Adam not to eat from it?, yet prior to him eating it, he had no clue what right and wrong Was BEFORE he even ate the fruit........That makes the Christian God a pretty sick bastard to punish the REST of MANKIND because a clueless, primative man, ate a tasty fruit........

[strattgatt]

@joelhewitt The logical answer is that God gave us the best possible circumstance (garden of eden.) He also gave us freewill. Which of course with freewill must come choices. If there were no choices to make, what is the point of freewill? We may as well be robots. Because God did not want robots he gave us freewill and a choice. We may have had no idea of evil, but we knew to trust God who gave us only good things. Anyone in the same position would make the same mistake. Not just adam

[Cadoimond]

@strattgatt You say "Because "G"od did not want robots he gave us free will and a choice" How do you know it didn't want robots? To presume the mind of god is to place yourself above god. To quote the bible. Besides that, as was already pointed out earlier in the comments. If god is omnipotent, it would already know everything that is going to happen when it 'made' us. Would have seen everything as it is now, and will be. Would have seen that satan was going to betray it.... Why do it then?

[strattgatt]

@Cadoimond Well, one the one hand you ask the question, "why do it then" and on the other hand you denounce me for "presuming the mind of God." I suppose the short answer is... the bible doesn't say. And the longer answer is, because he wanted us to choose between right and wrong, sin and obedience, and ultimately, our own desires and God's will.

[Cadoimond]

@strattgatt You don't understand my question. You say "he wanted us to choose" And yet, it's already supposed to know how it's going to end. It knows the choices we're going to make, not only before we're born, but from the time of creation. It knows all of it. This whole mumbo jumbo about wanting us to choose, through free will, is just that. According to your religion, god already knows all of it. Why 'give us the choice' if it already knows how we're going to choose?

[strattgatt]

@Cadoimond So then you are implying that if God is all knowing.... why would he do anything since he knows the outcome. Which of course is a silly thought process to say the least. Similar to the people who say "if there is a God why doesn't he prove himself?" For some God does not take enough action and for others, such as yourself, he has taken too much action already. Which of course will provoke the response "no cause i don't believe in God" which is the inevitable outcome regardless.

[Cadoimond]

@strattgatt I never implied god was all knowing. It's said god is omniscience, so therefor he knows all that is and all that will be. Calling the thought process silly doesn't actually make it so. I never said god needed to prove itself, since I don't believe there is one to prove. But that doesn't make my argument less valid because you call it silly. Never claimed it didn't take enough action or any at all. And yet, when you sit and think about it... If it already knows everything, why do it?

[strattgatt]

@Cadoimond Ok. What i am hearing is "if" there is a God and he is omnipotent, why would he do anything. Which is as valid as it is invalid. If i know that putting food in my mouth will make me not hungry, why do it? I suppose because there is something to be gained from the process. Perhaps God wants to have some people to love him and to love. Why not? Of course some people will not love Him.

[strattgatt]

@Cadoimond So then comes the question "why make people that don't love God" Which then comes the answer, "it must have been to the benefit of the objects of Gods love, the objects being the people that love Him." To which brings the followup question " so God made people that are going to go to hell (who could at any time repent and go to heaven) simply for the the benefit of the people that go to heaven?" Yes. Why? For learning purposes i suppose. I don't know.

[Cadoimond]

@strattgatt It all makes no sense all at. Are you telling me you have blind faith you're going to repent before you die and go to heaven? Or that you simply don't know? I honestly don't believe there is anything in the 'afterlife' but I also don't believe that in and of itself makes me a bad person. When I was a child, I questioned faith and decided, at that young age, faith is better served in the people who do the things they credit to god. And it's been my belief ever since.

[strattgatt]

@Cadoimond Oh well. I am sure people on the titanic were not interested in looking at lifeboats until late in the voyage. Just as americans will not be interested in silver and gold until their currency collapses. So too, a fool says in his heart "there is no God."

[Cadoimond]

@strattgatt I say apples and oranges to that one. If I were on the titanic I would have been looking for a lifeboat. That has nothing to do with life after death, that's life wanting to LIVE. And when, once again, everyone is agnostic, maybe we will be able to actually do something about all the starvation, death and war in the world. So long as people have different beliefs, there will always be these things.

[strattgatt]

@joelhewitt Please, I beg you, if you are going to post some retort to my answer, keep it on subject. I have answered a ton of people who all seem to suffer from ADD and cannot stay on subject to save their lives. Thanks!

[HPGCHEMIST1]

Spectacular !!!! What a legacy !!!!

[PhrygianBlack]

That was amazing!

[Diosibundo]

Damn you banana tree! Why doest thou not give me bananas out of season! Cursed be the to the seventh generation!

Hail Zeus!

[killer3596]

Incredible

[SOSADS]

BR wrongly assumes that Christian faith is the same as organised religion and because of past moral failings he is justified in declaring himself a non-Christian and God not real. It is akin to arguing that Americans should not believe in America because the USA is based on the sins of their forefathers. To believe a 'good world' is achievable only outside of Christianity is a displacement deceit that reveals total misunderstanding of biblical history and the relationship between God and man.

[amsd1231]

@SOSADS I believe you missed the part where he defines Christianity. He says the term Christianity is defined too loosely in this age and time, and he proceeds to define it as the strictest sense like they did in the past. I hope you watch every parts of this video. There are four in total, each with equal significance.

[SOSADS]

@amsd1231 Thanks I noted comments in all 4 postings and commented on each. Unfortunately word limits mean comment must be restricted. While the narrowest definition of Christianity is found at the foot of the cross, Jesus crucifixion was also God's sacrificial atonement with man, that enables evil to be overcome, conveys the truth of resurrection as salvation for repentant believers, and empowers their means for rebirth through the Spirit he sent into the world. BR's mind was spiritually closed.

[amsd1231]

@SOSADS Yes if you are claiming he had no faith and spirituality, I agree with you wholeheartedly. Having said that, I do not think he had a closed mind. He refused take things as given. He delved into the nature of spirituality and concluded that it originates from the fear of the unknown. And as he explains in this video, he does not think that is the ingredient for human happiness.

[SOSADS]

@amsd1231 Understood, but he did not have a closed mind as his starting point is that of a person who had no experience of the reality of a spiritual conversion experience and as a rationalist he was not prepared to concede to its possibility. Hence his reason for not being a Christian is based only on an incomplete assessment of Christian truth quite common to 'nominal' believers not 'reborn' believers. It is like observing a Nicodemus-like faith as opposed to a Pauline faith. Apples not Pears.

[nactan]

@SOSADS Wrong, Russell had one of the most open minds among all philosophers in human history. Just because he rejected Christianity, it doesn't follow that he had a closed mind. There's a reason why, if you want to find out whether or not a spiritual tradition is a harmful cult, you don't ask converts or just any ex-convert. Instead, you ask experts who have actually delved deep into their beliefs and practices, some of whom may be ex-converts.

[kaga13]

@SOSADS The genius of the creator of the universe would not be so stupid and so petty and so cruel that it would require the blood sacrifice of an innocent man to get rid of evil, your God is not omnipotent if he could not forgive us of sin any other way. That sin was God's fault to begin with makes the story even more absurd.

[kaga13]

@SOSADS Christian 'faith' is the same as organized religion. Any moral system created by the genius that created of the universe would be clear enough such that needless blood would be spilled due to inadequacies in the definitions of the creator's wishes. The Christian religion falls far short of this, they have no real respect for the name and implications of God.

[DrKroenen2000]

The reason why people believe in gods ... cause we are descendants of those who were kicked from the trees by the realy intelligent apes. We behaved like ... well ... humans. And thats why we had to tumble naked and dumb through the elephant grass. Sure there were more intelligent especimens among us, but ... Cling together, swing together!

[seekfears]

google Doe's Account.

[davetrombone1]

@seekfears From the Doe's Account website "Physics experiments conducted under a guise in late 2008 by an independent group at the LHC in Geneva have led to a fantastic truth." However "On 10 September 2008, the proton beams were successfully circulated in the main ring of the LHC for the first time,but nine days later, operations were halted...Repairing the resulting damage and installing additional safety features took over a year." Seems unlikely they did earth shattering studies in 9 days.

[TheNaasCRUBitch]

incredible man

[Garmandude]

Brilliant. It seems incredible to me that religion outlived Russell.

[NWOSupporter2012]

Bertrand Russell was a genius.

[planetar4564]

*rolls his eyes* He was so wonderful during this lecture. Yet, now he waxes ridiculous by making indefensible claims. Poor man.

[cmxcmx]

Good argument. Thanks for uploading this series.

[rhov233]

Great mind! Great ending!

[Maghetti]

Amazing essay.

[madhillick]

wow.i felt like clapping at the end of that.

[tuuraatnva]

@madhillick Me too!