Karimloo sings this sing with such emotion, that importantly for stage singers, you can feel his pain in the music. Purity and strength, and above all, truthfulness. Simply Astounding.
I have to say the sequel to Phantom was stunning. "Love Never Dies" was a gorgeous musical from beginning to end. I saw the show twice in London back in March...Ramin's voice is so gorgeous in real life...he is so talented and it gave me goosebumps. All the scores are just flawless. Really catches the raw love and passion that the Phantom feels for Christine and vice versa.
God, I always say this, but I would kill to be Sierra right now. His voice is simply inspiring, gorgeous... Sheesh, I'm such a creeper, but honestly, that's eargasmic. :D
And this song just never gets old! Even after my... Oh, say... Billionth listen?
@LoudFast1234 by god you're right!! but it's just those last 5 seconds though. I don't hear any other obvious similarities. maybe I should listen to it again. i guess andrew lloyal webber has to get inspiration from somewhere XD
I hate how everyone is bashing Love Never Dies based on what they read on Wikipedia. I admit when i first read what it was about I was SO ANGERY, but then I listen to the music and I fell in love just like I did with Phantom of the Opera. I say you don't have the right to review a whole show based on some poorly written Wikipedia summary and other reviews. You need to see the show yourself with an open mind and let the music take you away(: Well, that's my opinion at least...
@Thetwilightbeatles I disagree. The music doesn't compensate for a ridiculous plot and bad characterisations. Many people who don't like the show have heard the cast album and dislike it from that. They're perfectly entitled to their opinion.
@PhantomScorp But actually SEEING the show is a completely different thing than just listening to it...I'll admit I have yet to see the show, but if you take ANY Broadway show you'll know that seeing and hearing compared to just hearing can effect you in different ways...I respect your opinion, but I'm just giving you mine.
I saw this show yesterday and I have to admit that I was worried about a sequel, seeing as I'm such a fan of the original. But it was beautiful. Honestly, go and see it if you can. And Ramin was amazing. That song made me cry my eyes out when he sang it. The only thing was the ending was a bit abrupt. But still loved it and have been humming the songs ever since! xx
I really want to go and see this musical at the moment. I don't know too much of the music but those bits that I have listened to were absolutely wonderful. And this is certainly one of them... Great stuff!
I really want to go and see this musical at the moment. I don't know too much of the music but those bits that I have listened to were absolutely wonderful. And this is certainly one of them... Great stuff!
I almost want to see Love Never Dies just because of THIS song... Something about his voice is just so...Perfect... Plus he isn't exactly an eyesore either! ;P
Love PHANTOM? Don't want to a see a nonsensical sequel in which Raoul becomes a drunkard, Meg becomes a murderer, Christine becomes a slut and the Phantom becomes a composer of trashy vaudeville?
You're not alone.
Visit LoveShouldDie [dot] com to find out the awful truth behind the non-awaited sequel, denounced by the estate of PHANTOM's original author, condemned by PHANTOM fans everywhere and ridiculed by the international press.
@LoveShouldDie Seriously, chill out mate! All musicals are "nonsensical" ! Isn't that the point??? (and, actually, - Who cares what the press think (international or otherwise)!) I'd like to see them (or indeed, you, write a musical!!)
Love PHANTOM? Don't want to a see a nonsensical sequel in which Raoul becomes a drunkard, Meg becomes a murderer, Christine becomes a slut and the Phantom becomes a composer of trashy vaudeville?
You're not alone.
Visit LoveShouldDie [dot] com to find out the awful truth behind the non-awaited sequel, denounced by the estate of PHANTOM's original author, condemned by PHANTOM fans everywhere and ridiculed by the international press.
Don't let the PHANTOM story or its characters be ruined by the desecration to the story within Lloyd Webber's misguided sequel, LOVE NEVER DIES, condemned by theatre critics and PHANTOM fans across the globe.
Visit LoveShouldDie [dot] com to find out the awful truth behind the abominable and unnecessary sequel.
Don't let the PHANTOM story or its characters be ruined by the desecration to the story within Lloyd Webber's misguided sequel, LOVE NEVER DIES, condemned by theatre critics and PHANTOM fans across the globe.
Visit LoveShouldDie [dot] com to find out the awful truth behind the abominable and unnecessary sequel.
The people still worried about the whole phantom/Christine having a kid deal, just go listen to beneath a moonless sky... It explains it all. And guess what? It wasn't rape in the least.
I dont think so. While he has aged some since his last performance as phantom. I think enough time has passed in the storyline that make up could do it justice. I stick by my convictions and say that Crawford would do this role as phantom better than Ramin.
I've just googled MC, he was born in 1942 so he's now 68!!!! Only ten years has passed in the new Love Never Dies. Although MC was great as Phantom, Ramin is superb, he's brought a new dimension to the role. Saw LND preview Saturday - loved it but the ending needs tweaking.
Even with the new music video - I still love to visit this - my first intro 5 months ago - life in complete DISARRAY ever since - will experience Love Never Dies live May 13th - Colorado to London..... YEA!!!
I think that this is AMAZING and cant wait to see it, but from the looks of things most viewings up until august are fully booked :( Will be a great hit like Phantom
Ramin Karimloo is an amazing singer. I cant deny that. I am sure he is an amazing Phantom again or Webber would not have cast him. I just think that Crawford would have given this song more emotion. This guy has great facial expression, but his body looks very stationary. Crawford was amazing at using his whole body in every song he did. All I meant was that I wanted Crawford to be the Phantom in this and I think he should have a right to perform this song. More so than Ramin
Absolutely disgusted with what ALW has done to the characters of Raoul and Meg. Ruining the original characters in order to justify Christine running back to the Phantom? Smooth, real smooth,
Ramin is performing without makeup. phantom side takes to long to create. Ramin does a beautiful job though. i was sceptical about this as well. but im seeing it in a month. in march.
Yeah... don't bite my head off, but I'm really excited for this. Just saying. That doesn't mean I necessarily think that Webber's a genius or anything, but I'm gonna give this a chance before making a final statement.
This sequel is an abomination. Not only does it deny the Phantom his redemption that he gains in the final scene of the original, therefore making him an unscrupulous psychopathic serial killer with no remorse, but it also TURNS THE PHANTOM INTO A RAPIST. Christine sings this to the Phantom at the end of Act 1 of LOVE NEVER DIES:
doesn't necessarily make him a rapist. Phantom isn't done in real time and doesn't cover everything. Music of the Night finishes and then Stranger Than You Dreamt It takes place the next morning. There is no way of knowing everything that happens
@LoveShouldDie exactly so how do they have a kid? and do you think that if they did have sexual relations that he would have let her go? I don't think so.. but that's just my opinion..
@greenelphiexoxo I think the lyrics are really wonderful!!! But it's very possible they will change the lyrics around right before the show.. I think they did it with the first one too... :)
I think this is a hauntingly beautiful song. Many have dissed it, the sequel, but whatever that's their own personal opinion. Til I see it for myself, I'm going to give it a chance, and not pre-judge something that hasn't even been released fully yet.
Being against a sequel is not "pre-judging". The sequel could have marvellous music and fantastic lyrics and brilliant direction, but that doesn't make it right.
i may be an outsider as well, but i did really like this song :)
and for the record, im one of the people who fell in love with phantom after seeing it ONSTAGE. i saw the movie and loved it as well, and thought Gerard Butler did a wonderful job, even tho he's never been professionally trained. :D cant wait for the sequel! i really hope it lives up the the first one! :D (its ALW tho, so its still gonna be amazing)
ALW doesn't automatically equal amazing. He hasn't had a hit on Broadway in over two decades. How you think Butler did a wonderful job is beyond me, but fair enough.
I may be an outsider here but I love this song. The sequel however I'm still undecided. But I think that from what we know about the premise this song fits. The Phantom is suppose to be rich and successful in America but his still missing Christine and this song reflects his anguish and loneliness.
I think this is a great song. It is in fact a very musical theatre song, so don't know what AtLastOnTheGround is on about. I'm with holding judgement on Love Never Dies until it is out. It could end up being the exception to the rule of the sequels being as good as the originals
But there was a lot of "nice" music on the original Phantom. I think there are obvious musical connections in this song to Music Of The Night so I can't see where there is an argument that it doesn't belong in a Phantom sequel. The lyrics may not have quite captured the "darkness" of the Phantom as we know it but it is ten years later so let's just see how it relates within the new story.
hearmyfury his is from the horses mouth so to speak
LOVE NEVER DIES continues the story of The Phantom, who has moved from his lair in the Paris Opera House to haunt the fairgrounds of Coney Island, far across the Atlantic. Set ten years after the mysterious disappearance of The Phantom from Paris,
@hearmyfury what you don't know is the phantom (in his loneliness) created a time machine, went to 1907 and took everyone with him :P
(actually, the book it's based off of shows the true difference between the years... I think they did it this way so people weren't completely confused and possibly hoped they wouldn't notice the inconsistency of time)
So... the song is "nice." Corny, but "nice." Sounds like it belongs on a Josh Groban album. Doesn't belong in musical theater, and most definitely not in a sequel to Phantom.
Then again, Webber should have known better than to write a Phantom sequel.
@AtLastOnTheGround Haha, so true, especially the beginning sounds exactly like Josh Groban :) I'm not too happy with this sequel too, but I love the two leading actors, so I want to see it :) I think this story will kinda ruin the magic of the original, but Ramin has such a beautiful voice...I wanted to see him as the Phantom, but I was too late :)
@AtLastOnTheGround i have to disagree, webber was smart because so many people wanted more (and wanted the phantom and christine together) so he wanted to make everyone happy, but if u dont like them together than dont listen to love never dies..
But he is a bit young for the role, especially a sequel, and towards the end of his time as the Phantom I don't really think he lived the role, it was very samey going-through-the-motions if you get what I mean. It wasn't just a one-off 'off' day as there were many times I saw the show when it was like that. I felt he had more energy in his far earlier days with the show. I wish him all the best for the sequel nonetheless, even if I personally don't care for the idea of Love Never Dies.
I disagree. I've never seen Ramin walk his performances and nearing the end of his run as The Phantom I tried to see it several times. Even his final performance had new things which he's never done. Whether he did the same performance or not, it doesn't mean he walks it. He definitely lives the role and always found him full of energy and passion. It's there job to try and hit the same marks every night. He said, there are always different roads you can take to get to your destination.
@PhantomScorp what do you mean young for the role ? He has done the role of Phantom for a very long time on the west end Phantom of the Opera production. He has also done Raul. He is fantastic.
@iceage500 By young I mean that the Phantom really demands someone much older than Ramin. It is crucial to the plot. For the Phantom to have achieved the accomplishments he has done (built for the Shah of Persia, played a part in constructing the Opera House) and for him to be a believable father figure for Christine (she frequently confuses him for her father), he must be much older than Christine herself. The dignity and majesty the role demands comes only with age.
@PhantomScorp like you say everyone has their own opinion about this play. personally the 1st time i saw it i thought it was good but not brilliant like the original phantom. however on knowing the songs a lot more i thought the play was superb bordering on brilliant when i saw it for the 2nd time.sierra has got a lot more passionate about the role,prob ramin rubbed off on her and the pair of them along with the rest of the cast are excellent. listening to the cd the show gets better and better
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
I can tell that whatever the critics make of this, and you can guarentee it'll be "not as Good as the original", that this production will go down in history as a fabulous piece of theatre. From the previews the quality appears astounding. When you compare it to the trash (Les mis and POTO excepted) that is currently playing... it should wipe the floor. Karimloo is perfect for the role. Only it's hard to think of him as disfigured. But the voice is to die for.
@pianoboyo When you have nothing good to compare it to, then yes, it will look good. However, I don't believe it will be written in the history books that way.
If you look at him in one of the "Music of the Night" videos, he doesn't look that disfigured at all. MC, even with the mask on, looked the way Leroux described. Compare MC to RK on their MOTN videos and you'll see what I mean.
RK's voice could be better. It lacks the same range and depth MC was legendary for as the Phantom.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
We have plenty shows of high quality to compare it to. The complete corpus of ALW's work for a start. I am VERY familiar with MC's portrayal of the Phantom. I agree that he was excellent in the role. I have to respectfully disagree that MC's voice is better. It is different - yes.
I don't agree RK is perfect for the role. I like him a lot, but he's too young even for the Phantom in the original, let alone a sequel that happens however many years later.
@demeuredulac You couldn't have said it any better. If you listen to him sing MOTN, it sounds forced and sharp in many places, or just restrained. While he has a good voice, he just isn't as suited for the songs.
As for the "too young" part, again you're on point. The Phantom (Leroux's original) is supposed to be 50+, meaning that at least 12 years later (according to POM, but LND is 10 years) he would be 60+.
However, POM described Erik as 27+ so if ALW followed that w/LND, RK's youth fits
Yet Crawford in the original was in his mid-forties when he played the role...go figure.
I assume that Love Never Dies takes place in a parallel universe where anything -- especially time-travel -- is possible, since nothing about it makes sense at all.
Would that that parallel universe get sucked up by a black hole...
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
It's called acting! One thing we know of RK is that he is a first rate actor. I'm sure he will be fully convincing in the role. The phantom wouldn't have been 'that' old anyway even if you plus 10 years from the original.
I'm sorry, "first rate"? I respect your opinion but before the announcement of LND (which was more like a rumor that I had to google to see if a sequel was imminent), I've NEVER heard of RK!
Anyway, read the original novel by Leroux, then POM (or at least a synopsis...that book should be burned and will rot your brain), and you'll see what I'm talking about.
Btw, as for comparisons, you yourself said "compared to the trash currently playing". If put up against the greats, LND would fail
Before LND was coming out, I saw Ramin in London and he's so amazing live. Just saying. He's not terrible in the Phantom role (original). In fact, he pretty much hit it on the nail for me. But I agree with you about the age he's supposed to be in the sequel. In fact, when I talked to him after the show, he wasn't sure how old he was supposed to be in the sequel, and had me look it up in the playbill with him to figure it out. Poor guy... I guess no one in the creative team knows the dates!
Er, 10 years plus the age that Michael Crawford was when he played the role is 54. RK does NOT look 54 even in make up! In any case, it's 26 years, not 10...ALW can't do simple arithmetic.
OK, this might not go down well with some, but I do honestly very much like Ramin Karimloo and knew him well before he became high-profile in the West End.
But I'm not sure I'd call him a first-rate actor. He's a great MT performer -- of that I have no doubt -- but I don't think his acting skills are his forte as such. And I don't think that's why ALW cast him either.
Well I wouldn't blame ALW if this was his swansong... It bust be an awful life being constantly nit-picked over in this way. He is a creative artist, not a historian... At the end of the day he writes good tunes. Beethoven they may not be. I know my Beethoven. But who wants Beethoven all the time. ALW is one of the great musical figures of our time. It's a shame some people can't accept that.
@pianoboyo Ummm, are you for real? An awful life making millions? If you're going to be in the limelight, you subject yourself to such criticisms. It's called "show business". If nobody criticized him, even constructively, he might as well record himself after eating chili or beans and call it his best work ever! Right now, that's about the equivalent of what LND is going to be! A load of crap!
You don't have to be a historian to keep the details of your story straight.
If you watch the video on YouTube where ALW speaks, he says he cast Ramin because he's a "sexy Phantom". That really doesn't fill me with confidence if that's his main reason...
It seems to me that ALW is trying to market this show to young females who liked Schumacher's travesty, hence the whole sexy nonsense, even though the Phantom needs to be OLDER in a sequel.
A "sexy Phantom"??? Yup, ALW's sold himself out. He doesn't care about maintaining the integrity of the character, or the story, but is just concerned with making more money since (as someone on another thread posted) he hasn't had a hit since 17 years ago with the show "Sunset".
Unfortunately by trying to bring in the newer crowd, ALW is going to lose the older and original POTO fans by casting RK, or just by doing LND! In my opinion, it ruins the enchantment of POTO to know he's coming back.
@missybear2009 A sexy phantom was one of the reasons He musicalized POTO. He saw the sexy, and romantic character of the Phantom. Actually, his interpretation of the phantom is original. For years, the phantom was a horror icon, a monster. No one saw the hopeless romantic side of a lonely, abused person who wanted nothing but to feel love. There is something sexy about the phantom character, a romantic sexy. Something unknown. ALW hasn't sold out. He has created something new from a classic.
There's a difference between "sexy" though in the way it was originally envisioned by Hal Prince and portrayed by Michael Crawford and "sexy" as per Joel Schumacher and followed up on here. The former is in-keeping with the character to an extent as it is subtle and sensual. The latter is just cheap and designed to appeal to teenage girls.
He's a great actor. He's very truthful and he's unique. He doesn't just fit moulds. He seems to live the character nightly. I think that is why ALW choose him. He is a great actor, with a great voice and lots of passion. There are not many like him and he's still relatively new. Nice to see someone earning a role on merit.
I have to be careful what I say here in case it gets taken the wrong way---Ramin is an incredibly nice guy and obviously has a lot of long-time love for the Phantom, and I'm very grateful to him for inviting me backstage in London previously. I can't blame him for taking a role in this because is ALW offered me a leading role in his latest musical I'd immediately say yes.
Oh, and btw, I believe ALW is completely full of himself. POTO is his best piece, no doubt, and "Cats" is good, but he's had just as many misses as he's had hits. Evita? I watched it recently and cringed!
The only reason he is doing LND is for the money. He says he was unhappy with the first two runs, but people involved will say anything to build up the hype on the actual release!
Stewie (Family Guy) said it perfectly: "You are the worst thing to happen to musical theatre since ALW"!!!
Evita has some of ALW's best work in it, but I don't like the film of it....the film of Evita is no truer a real representation of the show than Schumacher's travesty is of Phantom.
I don't trust anything ALW says. If you look at his last few shows, every single time he says that it's the best thing he's written and how he's extremely proud of it, and then when they flop he completely takes the other side and says how he was never really happy with the piece anyway.
I'm not saying all of Evita was bad. One or two of the songs were great, and Banderas was intriguing, but I'm sure ALW had some say in how the movie was made, just like he did with POTO! If he were truly for the music, and not for money, maybe he would have prevented Butler from being cast.
I'm glad you agree with me on ALW! I don't trust anyone who's arrogant enough to spit in the face of the author whose story inspired a play that has grossed a fortune! It's just unethical...
Oh, and by the way, when I told my husband about the sequel, he was shocked, then disgusted when I told him the story it was "loosely" based off (I'm sorry but if ALW helped Forsythe write POM, I think he'll be referencing it much more than "loosely"). We've both already agreed we're not going to see it, not even out of sheer curiosity.
I played him this song, and although he said it was "pretty", he said Ramin just doesn't have a good low range and gets too nasally.....
....Michael Crawford was, and always will be, THE Phantom. His vocal range and fluidity is perfect, and his stage presence/performance made the Phantom believable. (I wish I could have been lucky enough to see him)
Anyway, my husband brought up the point that it's about the music, not necessarily the lyrics. But again, both the lyrics and melody are too cliche and simple, which don't fit the Phantom, who is a "musical genius", whatsoever.
I agree with everything you and demeuredulac have said (although re the Evita film, ALW had very little to do with it as he didn't own the rights...in Phantom's case he did yet it still turned out to be a mess!).
Indeed, "the day starts, the day ends" are not what I'd expect to hear from someone as erudite and educated as the Phantom. The melody is boring and as forgettable as the Eurovision song ALW wrote last year.
I am an ALW fan, but I've got a horrible feeling he's past his prime now.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
He is an artist - he believes in what he is doing! That is quite normal. After the event one has to take stock and realise what could have been done better - it's called being professional. ALW is a consumate professional.
Then why doesn't he just say "I am confident in the success of this piece, as I spent great time and effort working on it"? Why always say "It's the best piece...."?
Why would a professional insult and attempt to discredit the man whose story gave ALW the idea for what may be his "golden ticket"? POTO has been running for 23 years, and instead of being grateful, he and Forsythe, in an attempt to make MORE money, say that Leroux was wrong about how he wrote POTO!
The POTO was only ever 'based on' the novels of Leroux if you read the programme carefully. Therefore he doesn't "owe" Leroux anything. He has made something out of the novel which people love. ALW is an artist.. he gets excited about his projects, as an artist one always hopes that what one is currently doing will be the best reflection of ones talents. If you set out thinking "it might be ok, but probably not my best" then noone would bother to see it. He is an astute publicist, he knows MT
If he's so "excited" about his projects, then why is he so quick to disown them when they flop?
Look, obviously you're set that ALW is a "musical genius", but I disagree. I will admit he has done some great work, but he isn't Beethoven.
My point is: if you don't agree with how the story was written, write your own...Don't sit there and say the original author was wrong, and you're right. Do an "adaptation" but don't "base" it off of someone else's works if you don't like them.
I completely agree with you about ALW being an astute publicist...that he is indeed. The problem though with his "it's the best thing I've done" statements is that -- quite understandably -- the more gullible among his fans buy that. People are already calling LND a "masterpiece"! The very same people, I'd like to add, who insist that its detractors shouldn't judge it before they've seen it when this is what they're doing themselves.
And of course ALW owes Leroux something. These characters (except for the new ones) are Leroux's, not ALW's.
As for reading the programme carefully, you should note that some programmes include an article by Charles Hart in which Mr Hart describes the musical as "closely adher[ing]" to Leroux's novel. The majority of the scenes in the original musical come directly out of Leroux, albeit in a different sequential order, but not so as to alter its essence and effect.
HA! You're absolutely right!!! If anyone believes that ALW doesn't owe Leroux anything, watch the 1920's silent film version of POTO. I did last night, and its basically a non-musical predecessor to ALW's show! All of the same characters are there, except Madame Giry. The same references to Phantom being the Opera Ghost/Strangler.
Almost every major scene in ALW's show is from Leroux's novel! Unless ALW wrote everything himself, he owes major credit where credit is due.
Is this a joke? It is common knowledge that ALW based POTO on the novel by Gaston Leroux. ALW is a composer. He doesn't claim to write the books to his shows. Get the POTO companion book. The whole first section is about Leroux's novel, then the silent film and other film versions and how it was transformed into ALW's musical.
Monsieur Webber veut violer ma belle histoire. Je me retourne dans ma tombe grâce à cette affreuse et dégeulasse suite. Les spectacteurs à Londres et à New York veulent-t-ils vraiment payer pour voir cette véritable épave ?!
@MGastonLeroux Ne pas dire que personne ne voudrait voir ce spectacle. Juste parce que vous n'aimez pas qu'il ne signifie pas que quelqu'un d'autre ne fera pas. A moins que vous savez quel type de comédies musicales tout le monde dans ce monde aime, ne pas dit quelque chose comme ça.
Okay, I think you've missed my point. What we were saying, in response to pianoboyo's posts, is that ALW owes credit to Leroux for POTO's creation. You're right, he didn't write the book, but pianoboyo contested that ALW doesn't owe Leroux anything. That's obviously untrue.
He did, however, help Forsythe write POM (he confirms that in the interview video), in which they say (in the preface) Leroux was inaccurate in how he wrote POTO. ALW should retire...now.
Oh, taking stock doesn't mean completely retracting his statement and "denying" his piece. Here's what I mean:
"Oh, the critics didn't like the show? Okay. While I do still feel it is my best piece so far, I understand what they are talking about with....insert critique here....and I'll take that into consideration when writing my next show"
NOT "What? I didn't say that...I was never too happy with how this was written to begin with but decided to release it anyway. Sorry about that! My bad!"
....Even a play "loosely" based on POM needs to be boycotted! The plot of the book reminds me of some combination of Jerry Springer/Maury/Montel paternity episode with a badly scripted soap opera, and requires for the reader to check their brain at the front cover in order to believe one bit of crap on the pages. It also requires you to forget everything you know of POTO, both novel and play, because it throws it out the window as well! It also excuses rape and murder....sick stuff....
.....I read a synopsis of the preface to Phantom of Manhatten. Turns out ALW actually HELPED Forsythe write this literary atrocity. Also, Forsythe actually wrote that Leroux was WRONG about how he wrote the story, or in his accuracy about the characters! Ummm, didn't Leroux CREATE POTO??? It amazes me how arrogant ALW and Forsythe were to "correct" the original author on how he wrote his fictional tale. I read the first chapter, narrated by Giry, and I nearly vomited.....
That is nothig new, missybear2009! I remember reading Dracula sequels which, albeit entertaining, have audacity to write such garbage how STOKER was wrong with his story and characters!
Problem with those sequels was, that although they were entertaining Gothic in their own right, they dragged Stoker´s classic characters in and raped them: Lucy was slut, Renfield rapist, Dracula saved Mina... gag me!
At least with those sequels the audience is relatively limited. With Love Never Dies being a huge entertainment venture that is planned to go global, masses of people are going to witness the violation of the original characters and the less intelligent among those masses will, I fear, take what's represented as "canon". :(
@PlusSizeAngel: Seriously??? I've never read any of the Dracula novels, but I find it so amazing how some authors think they "know it all" once they write a book.
ALW needs to retire. Phantomscorp was right that he is probably past his prime. I say that of anyone who constantly says "this is my best work" about any new piece, but then quickly retracts just to save his own credibility when the show sucked.
POTO was perfect as it was. LND is simply the fruit of ALW's greed.
Well "raped" is an accurate description of what happened:
The Phantom escapes to New York, builds his own opera house, invites Christine, who brings her 12yo son, finds out he's the father because Raoul's impotent from Giry's letter, then tells C, then she gets shot and kid stays with Erik while R takes C back to Paris to bury her.
That means that in POTO Erik must have raped Christine which doesn't make sense no woman would kiss their rapist goodbye...POM actually glorifies rape and murder!
Exactly. These brats who gush about this sequel wouldn't find this story so vomit-inducingly beautiful if it happened to them.
Besides, the Phantom clearly DIDN'T rape Christine OR have consensual sex with her in the original since he even says he's been "denied the joys of the flesh" in the final scene!
As to hearmyfury: you're absolutely right! The only reason ALW can explain that is if he says that Erik felt guilty about raping her and doesn't consider it "joy"...Idk, knowing ALW he'll try!
To me the whole "sequel" story sounds like some pathetic fan's attempt to keep the Phantom going. I loved the ending of POTO, because you can't tell if he lives or dies but you just know he redeems himself. To actually continue it in a way that throws sense out the window is ludacris...
......As for this "sequel", I've listened to this song a few times, as well as Coney Island Waltz...I'm not impressed. The lyrics lack creativity, the song itself, although beautifully sung by Ramin, just isn't that great. It's the same melody over and over. I know most of the POTO songs are repetetive, but at least the melody is more engaging and complex in those. I for one pray that they will not make a movie adaptation of this, and be so cruel as to cast Butler again!........
Okay would you stop bickering?! I haven't read the novel, or seen the original play, but I for one feel Butler was one of the worst possible choices, because he is NOT A SINGER! Why would anyone cast someone who can't sing in a MUSICAL? Oh, right, it's Joel Schumacher! I loved the movie, mainly because I was able to see POTO for the first time, but hearing Butler "sing" made me cringe. I felt like he was raspily shouting most of the lines, when the Phantom is supposed to sound angelic.........
While it may be true that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, Gerry Butler, however phenomenal an actor he may be, was not cut out to be the Phantom. FIrst off, he was too good looking, while the Phantom is supposed to be hideous. Secondly, and more importantly in a movie that is supposed to be a musical, his voice was more or less dismal. This is not a knock on Butler, as he can't help the voice he was born with, but rather a knock on those in charge of casting for the movie.
Now this guy has got a VOICE!! But I'm still loyal to Gerry's version of Erik, and I hope that if ALW decides to do a sequel to the movie, he'll use Gerry again. I *WANT* to hear Gerry sing this!
You can actually see the tears in his eyes towards the end...AMAZING! Oh my.... I can't breath! Best Phantom EVER!
LOVxxE 3 months ago
AAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!!!! I wanna see this SOOOOOOOOOOOO BAAAAAAD!!!!! DANG IT! COME TO AMERICA FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!!!!!
aryask1918 3 months ago
MARRY ME!!
BraodwayGurl 3 months ago in playlist Ramin Karimloo
Comment removed
apartment1231 4 months ago
this is incredibly mooving, I started to tear up
t0talr0ck3r 6 months ago
Karimloo sings this sing with such emotion, that importantly for stage singers, you can feel his pain in the music. Purity and strength, and above all, truthfulness. Simply Astounding.
thesilentlistener11 6 months ago
Comment removed
TheOneCalledV 8 months ago
I have to say the sequel to Phantom was stunning. "Love Never Dies" was a gorgeous musical from beginning to end. I saw the show twice in London back in March...Ramin's voice is so gorgeous in real life...he is so talented and it gave me goosebumps. All the scores are just flawless. Really catches the raw love and passion that the Phantom feels for Christine and vice versa.
TheOneCalledV 8 months ago 2
Bravisimo!
iNetSpy 8 months ago
he is lurrrrsh xxx with one hell of a voice
xsmiths 8 months ago
suggestion for youtube: have a nonstop replay option on certain videos so that I don't have to click replay every 3 minutes. like on this video.
wendy321 8 months ago
Sensational breathtaking performance from Ramin. BEST PHANTOM E-V-E-R!!
Milllion times better any day than M. Crawford!!!
JohnnyBoy2802 9 months ago 3
God, I always say this, but I would kill to be Sierra right now. His voice is simply inspiring, gorgeous... Sheesh, I'm such a creeper, but honestly, that's eargasmic. :D
And this song just never gets old! Even after my... Oh, say... Billionth listen?
TheGreenified 9 months ago 2
is Ramin Karimloo gay? i really need to know since that voice and those expressions just made me melt into my chair and fall in love. <3 <3 <3
broadwaylover01 10 months ago
@broadwaylover01 No he is not gay; he's married with two children. His wife is a very lucky lady!
Followgrace 9 months ago
There's nothing more to say - this IS Ramin's song. Breathtaking performance from a truly wonderful guy.
westendgirl61 10 months ago
I'm inlove.
Princesslibbyloo7 11 months ago
not gonna lie the end of this kinda sounds like an aria from tosca. same notes and everything, it still kicks major ass though!!
LoudFast1234 1 year ago
@LoudFast1234 which aria? i wanna youtube XD
wendy321 11 months ago
@wendy321 recondita armonia. its really noticible at the end of each song....
LoudFast1234 11 months ago
@LoudFast1234 by god you're right!! but it's just those last 5 seconds though. I don't hear any other obvious similarities. maybe I should listen to it again. i guess andrew lloyal webber has to get inspiration from somewhere XD
wendy321 11 months ago
Loved the show thought that is was phantastic!!!!!
carnagesw 1 year ago
I love this song soooooo much. why cant people stop bickering over it and just enjoy it.xkx
kpnutz86 1 year ago 4
I love how everyone who posts a comment thinks they are an expert.
drewsmagicsoaps 1 year ago
I hate how everyone is bashing Love Never Dies based on what they read on Wikipedia. I admit when i first read what it was about I was SO ANGERY, but then I listen to the music and I fell in love just like I did with Phantom of the Opera. I say you don't have the right to review a whole show based on some poorly written Wikipedia summary and other reviews. You need to see the show yourself with an open mind and let the music take you away(: Well, that's my opinion at least...
Thetwilightbeatles 1 year ago 2
@Thetwilightbeatles I disagree. The music doesn't compensate for a ridiculous plot and bad characterisations. Many people who don't like the show have heard the cast album and dislike it from that. They're perfectly entitled to their opinion.
PhantomScorp 1 year ago
@PhantomScorp But actually SEEING the show is a completely different thing than just listening to it...I'll admit I have yet to see the show, but if you take ANY Broadway show you'll know that seeing and hearing compared to just hearing can effect you in different ways...I respect your opinion, but I'm just giving you mine.
Thetwilightbeatles 1 year ago
Ramin makes me week at the knees. His voice is so attractive. He captures the emotions of the Phantom.
goldengreaser 1 year ago
That performance gave me goosebumps. What a voice!
philt5555 1 year ago 3
I saw this show yesterday and I have to admit that I was worried about a sequel, seeing as I'm such a fan of the original. But it was beautiful. Honestly, go and see it if you can. And Ramin was amazing. That song made me cry my eyes out when he sang it. The only thing was the ending was a bit abrupt. But still loved it and have been humming the songs ever since! xx
vicstarful 1 year ago 3
man he is so handsome
farzijoon 1 year ago
I really want to go and see this musical at the moment. I don't know too much of the music but those bits that I have listened to were absolutely wonderful. And this is certainly one of them... Great stuff!
FabianWilliam 1 year ago
I really want to go and see this musical at the moment. I don't know too much of the music but those bits that I have listened to were absolutely wonderful. And this is certainly one of them... Great stuff!
FabianWilliam 1 year ago
I almost want to see Love Never Dies just because of THIS song... Something about his voice is just so...Perfect... Plus he isn't exactly an eyesore either! ;P
icedcorn13 1 year ago
Love PHANTOM? Don't want to a see a nonsensical sequel in which Raoul becomes a drunkard, Meg becomes a murderer, Christine becomes a slut and the Phantom becomes a composer of trashy vaudeville?
You're not alone.
Visit LoveShouldDie [dot] com to find out the awful truth behind the non-awaited sequel, denounced by the estate of PHANTOM's original author, condemned by PHANTOM fans everywhere and ridiculed by the international press.
LoveShouldDie 1 year ago
@LoveShouldDie Seriously, chill out mate! All musicals are "nonsensical" ! Isn't that the point??? (and, actually, - Who cares what the press think (international or otherwise)!) I'd like to see them (or indeed, you, write a musical!!)
karenf1001 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Love PHANTOM? Don't want to a see a nonsensical sequel in which Raoul becomes a drunkard, Meg becomes a murderer, Christine becomes a slut and the Phantom becomes a composer of trashy vaudeville?
You're not alone.
Visit LoveShouldDie [dot] com to find out the awful truth behind the non-awaited sequel, denounced by the estate of PHANTOM's original author, condemned by PHANTOM fans everywhere and ridiculed by the international press.
LoveShouldDie 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Don't let the PHANTOM story or its characters be ruined by the desecration to the story within Lloyd Webber's misguided sequel, LOVE NEVER DIES, condemned by theatre critics and PHANTOM fans across the globe.
Visit LoveShouldDie [dot] com to find out the awful truth behind the abominable and unnecessary sequel.
LoveShouldDie 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Don't let the PHANTOM story or its characters be ruined by the desecration to the story within Lloyd Webber's misguided sequel, LOVE NEVER DIES, condemned by theatre critics and PHANTOM fans across the globe.
Visit LoveShouldDie [dot] com to find out the awful truth behind the abominable and unnecessary sequel.
LoveShouldDie 1 year ago
Erik you seem so lonely. You will be okay.
TheLadydonjuan 1 year ago 3
his voice is amazing!
livelovedance0818 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Like The Phantom of the Opera??.. Follow these PHANS on Twitter!! @IzzyMonsterrr @GerardPhan @SaRaH_bOyD @vatafairefoutre @cornix_regina @erikphantomlady @givemeyamarmite @SamnthasPhantom
pauhil 1 year ago
love it
loveneverdiea 1 year ago
I get chills listening to him sing! He is soooo incredible! Love him!
LemurCreature 1 year ago 2
So, so, SO gorgeous. <3 I love his voice.
singingangel93 1 year ago
I...don't know what to say. I'm crying so hard right now. The emotion in his voice is almost too much for my poor heart :( beautiful. beautiful.
twiwonder 1 year ago
what a beautiful song~
titanictc 1 year ago 3
nOT ONLY CAN YOU HEAR THE ENOTION BUT U CAN TOTALLY SEE IT!!! aT THE END TEARS ARE WELLING IN HIS EYES HES A BEAUTIFUL SINGER AND ACTOR!!
mimet111 1 year ago 3
amazing!
Marina2157 1 year ago 2
I swear I can't get enough of this song. When I'm not watching it here... I'm listening to it on the soundtrack that I have. Very breathtaking.
KikimoLie 1 year ago 3
truely AMAZING, he did such a great job with this song, BRILLIANT!!! :)
pod8z8 1 year ago 7
Ramin really squeezes as much emotion into every word as is humanly possible. He sings past his years i think. excited to watch the show now.xx
hannuki 1 year ago 21
@hannuki yes he has grown since he was a regular phantom in phantom of the opera
whitehorsez13 8 months ago
If you pre-Ordered the CD from the love never dies web site does it come in the mail?
The boy is Phantom's?!?!?!
Happyperson290 1 year ago 4
The people still worried about the whole phantom/Christine having a kid deal, just go listen to beneath a moonless sky... It explains it all. And guess what? It wasn't rape in the least.
iloveimpact 1 year ago 4
Crawford is way too old for it. WAY too old.
Ramin is quite incredible. He'll do it justice.
haleyelena 1 year ago
I dont think so. While he has aged some since his last performance as phantom. I think enough time has passed in the storyline that make up could do it justice. I stick by my convictions and say that Crawford would do this role as phantom better than Ramin.
xyami42 1 year ago
I've just googled MC, he was born in 1942 so he's now 68!!!! Only ten years has passed in the new Love Never Dies. Although MC was great as Phantom, Ramin is superb, he's brought a new dimension to the role. Saw LND preview Saturday - loved it but the ending needs tweaking.
cheilbel 1 year ago
Even with the new music video - I still love to visit this - my first intro 5 months ago - life in complete DISARRAY ever since - will experience Love Never Dies live May 13th - Colorado to London..... YEA!!!
MoulinSurvivor 1 year ago
I think that this is AMAZING and cant wait to see it, but from the looks of things most viewings up until august are fully booked :( Will be a great hit like Phantom
chrisbctc 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Crawford would have been better!
xyami42 1 year ago
Ramin Karimloo is an amazing singer. I cant deny that. I am sure he is an amazing Phantom again or Webber would not have cast him. I just think that Crawford would have given this song more emotion. This guy has great facial expression, but his body looks very stationary. Crawford was amazing at using his whole body in every song he did. All I meant was that I wanted Crawford to be the Phantom in this and I think he should have a right to perform this song. More so than Ramin
xyami42 1 year ago
Absolutely disgusted with what ALW has done to the characters of Raoul and Meg. Ruining the original characters in order to justify Christine running back to the Phantom? Smooth, real smooth,
sharkanorca 1 year ago
Saw the show last night, this is the best song of the show, ramin is marvellous,
pity he couldnt sing the other good song Love Never Dies. I would love to hear opera tenor Gari Glaysher singing this too.
Rose
RoseLCL 1 year ago
Beautiful!
BobbyinNashville 1 year ago
Ramins voice gives me goosebumps :O
!!!!
godgivendesire 1 year ago
Ramin is performing without makeup. phantom side takes to long to create. Ramin does a beautiful job though. i was sceptical about this as well. but im seeing it in a month. in march.
TannerAusbun 1 year ago
Yeah... don't bite my head off, but I'm really excited for this. Just saying. That doesn't mean I necessarily think that Webber's a genius or anything, but I'm gonna give this a chance before making a final statement.
LindseyLullabye 1 year ago
This sequel is an abomination. Not only does it deny the Phantom his redemption that he gains in the final scene of the original, therefore making him an unscrupulous psychopathic serial killer with no remorse, but it also TURNS THE PHANTOM INTO A RAPIST. Christine sings this to the Phantom at the end of Act 1 of LOVE NEVER DIES:
"Once upon another time
You went off and left me alone
But that's not all you did
You left me with a son."
Horrendous lyrics and desecrated characters.
Say no.
LoveShouldDie 2 years ago
What a stupid comment.
It's Raoul's son, not Eric's.
HarryKeightley 2 years ago
Not according to newly published evidences. It's Erik's son. (NOT SPELT WITH A "C")
DarthxErik 1 year ago
@LoveShouldDie Just don't see it. No reason to be uncivil and trash it for the rest of us who want to see it. Let us optimists have our fun.
LindseyLullabye 2 years ago
doesn't necessarily make him a rapist. Phantom isn't done in real time and doesn't cover everything. Music of the Night finishes and then Stranger Than You Dreamt It takes place the next morning. There is no way of knowing everything that happens
angelofretribution16 1 year ago
Yes, there is. The final scene makes it clear that they did not have sexual relations:
"That fate which condemns me
To wallow in blood
Has also denied me
The joys of the flesh"
LoveShouldDie 1 year ago
@LoveShouldDie exactly so how do they have a kid? and do you think that if they did have sexual relations that he would have let her go? I don't think so.. but that's just my opinion..
mikawhofan 1 year ago
Im confused why is the phantom not deformed? Is Ramin just randomly performing this without makeup?
icerose100 2 years ago
Apparently so?
MysticGecko 2 years ago
@icerose100 its a promo for the show, it was performed when Andrew Lloyd Webber did the press conference for it
Tabithetank 2 years ago
The lyrics aren't so great, I like the melody..
Generally I like it... Not on the level as Phantom, though
greenelphiexoxo 2 years ago
@greenelphiexoxo I think the lyrics are really wonderful!!! But it's very possible they will change the lyrics around right before the show.. I think they did it with the first one too... :)
taintedlover2007 2 years ago
I think this is a hauntingly beautiful song. Many have dissed it, the sequel, but whatever that's their own personal opinion. Til I see it for myself, I'm going to give it a chance, and not pre-judge something that hasn't even been released fully yet.
mbgal07 2 years ago 5
Being against a sequel is not "pre-judging". The sequel could have marvellous music and fantastic lyrics and brilliant direction, but that doesn't make it right.
demeuredulac 2 years ago
i may be an outsider as well, but i did really like this song :)
and for the record, im one of the people who fell in love with phantom after seeing it ONSTAGE. i saw the movie and loved it as well, and thought Gerard Butler did a wonderful job, even tho he's never been professionally trained. :D cant wait for the sequel! i really hope it lives up the the first one! :D (its ALW tho, so its still gonna be amazing)
neverletgo45 2 years ago
ALW doesn't automatically equal amazing. He hasn't had a hit on Broadway in over two decades. How you think Butler did a wonderful job is beyond me, but fair enough.
demeuredulac 2 years ago
I may be an outsider here but I love this song. The sequel however I'm still undecided. But I think that from what we know about the premise this song fits. The Phantom is suppose to be rich and successful in America but his still missing Christine and this song reflects his anguish and loneliness.
~I'll always feel no more then half way real
till I hear you sing once more.~
mikawhofan 2 years ago
Oh come on, an angsty teenager could write better lyrics than that.
demeuredulac 2 years ago
Such a pretty song and I got testy just listening to it aaaw
dfarras10 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I think this is a great song. It is in fact a very musical theatre song, so don't know what AtLastOnTheGround is on about. I'm with holding judgement on Love Never Dies until it is out. It could end up being the exception to the rule of the sequels being as good as the originals
littlewilz 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
But there was a lot of "nice" music on the original Phantom. I think there are obvious musical connections in this song to Music Of The Night so I can't see where there is an argument that it doesn't belong in a Phantom sequel. The lyrics may not have quite captured the "darkness" of the Phantom as we know it but it is ten years later so let's just see how it relates within the new story.
ziearmo 2 years ago
It's not ten years later. Mathematics fail with that one. The original's set in 1881.
hearmyfury 2 years ago 3
hearmyfury his is from the horses mouth so to speak
LOVE NEVER DIES continues the story of The Phantom, who has moved from his lair in the Paris Opera House to haunt the fairgrounds of Coney Island, far across the Atlantic. Set ten years after the mysterious disappearance of The Phantom from Paris,
ziearmo 2 years ago
I'm well aware of that. But the original was set in 1881. Do you think 1907 minus 1881 = ten years? ALW fails at mathematics.
hearmyfury 2 years ago 4
@hearmyfury what you don't know is the phantom (in his loneliness) created a time machine, went to 1907 and took everyone with him :P
(actually, the book it's based off of shows the true difference between the years... I think they did it this way so people weren't completely confused and possibly hoped they wouldn't notice the inconsistency of time)
taintedlover2007 2 years ago 2
So... the song is "nice." Corny, but "nice." Sounds like it belongs on a Josh Groban album. Doesn't belong in musical theater, and most definitely not in a sequel to Phantom.
Then again, Webber should have known better than to write a Phantom sequel.
AtLastOnTheGround 2 years ago 9
This has been flagged as spam show
Indeed, he should have. Love Should Die.
Facebook [dot] com [slash] loveshoulddie
LoveShouldDie 2 years ago 6
@AtLastOnTheGround Haha, so true, especially the beginning sounds exactly like Josh Groban :) I'm not too happy with this sequel too, but I love the two leading actors, so I want to see it :) I think this story will kinda ruin the magic of the original, but Ramin has such a beautiful voice...I wanted to see him as the Phantom, but I was too late :)
ethalinia 1 year ago
@AtLastOnTheGround he wrote the song for the last eurovision song contest i think his standards are slipping lol
the1trueseed 1 year ago
i think the reviews speak for themselves. get ur head out of ur arse. u very obviously dont know as much about musicals as u think
deega03099 1 year ago
@deega03099
The reviews are almost all negative... the only praise is for the appearance of it all. It's pretty poorly written.
AtLastOnTheGround 1 year ago
@AtLastOnTheGround i have to disagree, webber was smart because so many people wanted more (and wanted the phantom and christine together) so he wanted to make everyone happy, but if u dont like them together than dont listen to love never dies..
whitehorsez13 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
GORGEOUS!! Can see me getting quite tearful when i see the show :' )
FOOTLOOSEMAD 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
i get chills listening to this
CornyRUs 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
chills. CHILLS.
RaWrZzZz 2 years ago
But he is a bit young for the role, especially a sequel, and towards the end of his time as the Phantom I don't really think he lived the role, it was very samey going-through-the-motions if you get what I mean. It wasn't just a one-off 'off' day as there were many times I saw the show when it was like that. I felt he had more energy in his far earlier days with the show. I wish him all the best for the sequel nonetheless, even if I personally don't care for the idea of Love Never Dies.
PhantomScorp 2 years ago 16
This has been flagged as spam show
I disagree. I've never seen Ramin walk his performances and nearing the end of his run as The Phantom I tried to see it several times. Even his final performance had new things which he's never done. Whether he did the same performance or not, it doesn't mean he walks it. He definitely lives the role and always found him full of energy and passion. It's there job to try and hit the same marks every night. He said, there are always different roads you can take to get to your destination.
ccple 2 years ago
@PhantomScorp what do you mean young for the role ? He has done the role of Phantom for a very long time on the west end Phantom of the Opera production. He has also done Raul. He is fantastic.
iceage500 1 year ago
@iceage500 By young I mean that the Phantom really demands someone much older than Ramin. It is crucial to the plot. For the Phantom to have achieved the accomplishments he has done (built for the Shah of Persia, played a part in constructing the Opera House) and for him to be a believable father figure for Christine (she frequently confuses him for her father), he must be much older than Christine herself. The dignity and majesty the role demands comes only with age.
PhantomScorp 1 year ago
@PhantomScorp like you say everyone has their own opinion about this play. personally the 1st time i saw it i thought it was good but not brilliant like the original phantom. however on knowing the songs a lot more i thought the play was superb bordering on brilliant when i saw it for the 2nd time.sierra has got a lot more passionate about the role,prob ramin rubbed off on her and the pair of them along with the rest of the cast are excellent. listening to the cd the show gets better and better
fredorulz1 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I can tell that whatever the critics make of this, and you can guarentee it'll be "not as Good as the original", that this production will go down in history as a fabulous piece of theatre. From the previews the quality appears astounding. When you compare it to the trash (Les mis and POTO excepted) that is currently playing... it should wipe the floor. Karimloo is perfect for the role. Only it's hard to think of him as disfigured. But the voice is to die for.
pianoboyo 2 years ago
@pianoboyo When you have nothing good to compare it to, then yes, it will look good. However, I don't believe it will be written in the history books that way.
If you look at him in one of the "Music of the Night" videos, he doesn't look that disfigured at all. MC, even with the mask on, looked the way Leroux described. Compare MC to RK on their MOTN videos and you'll see what I mean.
RK's voice could be better. It lacks the same range and depth MC was legendary for as the Phantom.
missybear2009 2 years ago 3
This comment has received too many negative votes show
We have plenty shows of high quality to compare it to. The complete corpus of ALW's work for a start. I am VERY familiar with MC's portrayal of the Phantom. I agree that he was excellent in the role. I have to respectfully disagree that MC's voice is better. It is different - yes.
pianoboyo 2 years ago
I don't agree RK is perfect for the role. I like him a lot, but he's too young even for the Phantom in the original, let alone a sequel that happens however many years later.
demeuredulac 2 years ago 4
@demeuredulac You couldn't have said it any better. If you listen to him sing MOTN, it sounds forced and sharp in many places, or just restrained. While he has a good voice, he just isn't as suited for the songs.
As for the "too young" part, again you're on point. The Phantom (Leroux's original) is supposed to be 50+, meaning that at least 12 years later (according to POM, but LND is 10 years) he would be 60+.
However, POM described Erik as 27+ so if ALW followed that w/LND, RK's youth fits
missybear2009 2 years ago 3
Yet Crawford in the original was in his mid-forties when he played the role...go figure.
I assume that Love Never Dies takes place in a parallel universe where anything -- especially time-travel -- is possible, since nothing about it makes sense at all.
Would that that parallel universe get sucked up by a black hole...
demeuredulac 2 years ago 5
This comment has received too many negative votes show
It's called acting! One thing we know of RK is that he is a first rate actor. I'm sure he will be fully convincing in the role. The phantom wouldn't have been 'that' old anyway even if you plus 10 years from the original.
pianoboyo 2 years ago
I'm sorry, "first rate"? I respect your opinion but before the announcement of LND (which was more like a rumor that I had to google to see if a sequel was imminent), I've NEVER heard of RK!
Anyway, read the original novel by Leroux, then POM (or at least a synopsis...that book should be burned and will rot your brain), and you'll see what I'm talking about.
Btw, as for comparisons, you yourself said "compared to the trash currently playing". If put up against the greats, LND would fail
missybear2009 2 years ago 2
Before LND was coming out, I saw Ramin in London and he's so amazing live. Just saying. He's not terrible in the Phantom role (original). In fact, he pretty much hit it on the nail for me. But I agree with you about the age he's supposed to be in the sequel. In fact, when I talked to him after the show, he wasn't sure how old he was supposed to be in the sequel, and had me look it up in the playbill with him to figure it out. Poor guy... I guess no one in the creative team knows the dates!
DarthxErik 1 year ago
Er, 10 years plus the age that Michael Crawford was when he played the role is 54. RK does NOT look 54 even in make up! In any case, it's 26 years, not 10...ALW can't do simple arithmetic.
demeuredulac 2 years ago 5
OK, this might not go down well with some, but I do honestly very much like Ramin Karimloo and knew him well before he became high-profile in the West End.
But I'm not sure I'd call him a first-rate actor. He's a great MT performer -- of that I have no doubt -- but I don't think his acting skills are his forte as such. And I don't think that's why ALW cast him either.
demeuredulac 2 years ago 11
This has been flagged as spam show
Well I wouldn't blame ALW if this was his swansong... It bust be an awful life being constantly nit-picked over in this way. He is a creative artist, not a historian... At the end of the day he writes good tunes. Beethoven they may not be. I know my Beethoven. But who wants Beethoven all the time. ALW is one of the great musical figures of our time. It's a shame some people can't accept that.
pianoboyo 2 years ago
@pianoboyo Ummm, are you for real? An awful life making millions? If you're going to be in the limelight, you subject yourself to such criticisms. It's called "show business". If nobody criticized him, even constructively, he might as well record himself after eating chili or beans and call it his best work ever! Right now, that's about the equivalent of what LND is going to be! A load of crap!
You don't have to be a historian to keep the details of your story straight.
missybear2009 2 years ago 8
He writes good tunes but he's always described himself to be a "musical dramatist". That means story is key. And in this case, the story sucketh.
hearmyfury 2 years ago 10
If you watch the video on YouTube where ALW speaks, he says he cast Ramin because he's a "sexy Phantom". That really doesn't fill me with confidence if that's his main reason...
It seems to me that ALW is trying to market this show to young females who liked Schumacher's travesty, hence the whole sexy nonsense, even though the Phantom needs to be OLDER in a sequel.
hearmyfury 2 years ago 8
A "sexy Phantom"??? Yup, ALW's sold himself out. He doesn't care about maintaining the integrity of the character, or the story, but is just concerned with making more money since (as someone on another thread posted) he hasn't had a hit since 17 years ago with the show "Sunset".
Unfortunately by trying to bring in the newer crowd, ALW is going to lose the older and original POTO fans by casting RK, or just by doing LND! In my opinion, it ruins the enchantment of POTO to know he's coming back.
missybear2009 2 years ago 10
i just mentally separate the shows xD that way i don't start haing an anger induced bitchfit.
RaWrZzZz 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@missybear2009 A sexy phantom was one of the reasons He musicalized POTO. He saw the sexy, and romantic character of the Phantom. Actually, his interpretation of the phantom is original. For years, the phantom was a horror icon, a monster. No one saw the hopeless romantic side of a lonely, abused person who wanted nothing but to feel love. There is something sexy about the phantom character, a romantic sexy. Something unknown. ALW hasn't sold out. He has created something new from a classic.
thegreateststar17 2 years ago
There's a difference between "sexy" though in the way it was originally envisioned by Hal Prince and portrayed by Michael Crawford and "sexy" as per Joel Schumacher and followed up on here. The former is in-keeping with the character to an extent as it is subtle and sensual. The latter is just cheap and designed to appeal to teenage girls.
demeuredulac 2 years ago 5
i'm sorry but that is not "sexy" he's hot but he's too clean cut.
hottieho13 2 years ago
He's a great actor. He's very truthful and he's unique. He doesn't just fit moulds. He seems to live the character nightly. I think that is why ALW choose him. He is a great actor, with a great voice and lots of passion. There are not many like him and he's still relatively new. Nice to see someone earning a role on merit.
ccple 2 years ago
I have to be careful what I say here in case it gets taken the wrong way---Ramin is an incredibly nice guy and obviously has a lot of long-time love for the Phantom, and I'm very grateful to him for inviting me backstage in London previously. I can't blame him for taking a role in this because is ALW offered me a leading role in his latest musical I'd immediately say yes.
PhantomScorp 2 years ago 10
Oh, and btw, I believe ALW is completely full of himself. POTO is his best piece, no doubt, and "Cats" is good, but he's had just as many misses as he's had hits. Evita? I watched it recently and cringed!
The only reason he is doing LND is for the money. He says he was unhappy with the first two runs, but people involved will say anything to build up the hype on the actual release!
Stewie (Family Guy) said it perfectly: "You are the worst thing to happen to musical theatre since ALW"!!!
missybear2009 2 years ago 5
Evita has some of ALW's best work in it, but I don't like the film of it....the film of Evita is no truer a real representation of the show than Schumacher's travesty is of Phantom.
I don't trust anything ALW says. If you look at his last few shows, every single time he says that it's the best thing he's written and how he's extremely proud of it, and then when they flop he completely takes the other side and says how he was never really happy with the piece anyway.
demeuredulac 2 years ago 5
I'm not saying all of Evita was bad. One or two of the songs were great, and Banderas was intriguing, but I'm sure ALW had some say in how the movie was made, just like he did with POTO! If he were truly for the music, and not for money, maybe he would have prevented Butler from being cast.
I'm glad you agree with me on ALW! I don't trust anyone who's arrogant enough to spit in the face of the author whose story inspired a play that has grossed a fortune! It's just unethical...
missybear2009 2 years ago 4
Oh, and by the way, when I told my husband about the sequel, he was shocked, then disgusted when I told him the story it was "loosely" based off (I'm sorry but if ALW helped Forsythe write POM, I think he'll be referencing it much more than "loosely"). We've both already agreed we're not going to see it, not even out of sheer curiosity.
I played him this song, and although he said it was "pretty", he said Ramin just doesn't have a good low range and gets too nasally.....
missybear2009 2 years ago 4
....Michael Crawford was, and always will be, THE Phantom. His vocal range and fluidity is perfect, and his stage presence/performance made the Phantom believable. (I wish I could have been lucky enough to see him)
Anyway, my husband brought up the point that it's about the music, not necessarily the lyrics. But again, both the lyrics and melody are too cliche and simple, which don't fit the Phantom, who is a "musical genius", whatsoever.
Based on this and the waltz...LND = fail
missybear2009 2 years ago 4
I agree with everything you and demeuredulac have said (although re the Evita film, ALW had very little to do with it as he didn't own the rights...in Phantom's case he did yet it still turned out to be a mess!).
Indeed, "the day starts, the day ends" are not what I'd expect to hear from someone as erudite and educated as the Phantom. The melody is boring and as forgettable as the Eurovision song ALW wrote last year.
I am an ALW fan, but I've got a horrible feeling he's past his prime now.
PhantomScorp 2 years ago 6
It takes musical genius to express oneself clearly concisely and simply. I think ALW has hit the nail on the head.
pianoboyo 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
He is an artist - he believes in what he is doing! That is quite normal. After the event one has to take stock and realise what could have been done better - it's called being professional. ALW is a consumate professional.
pianoboyo 2 years ago
Then why doesn't he just say "I am confident in the success of this piece, as I spent great time and effort working on it"? Why always say "It's the best piece...."?
Why would a professional insult and attempt to discredit the man whose story gave ALW the idea for what may be his "golden ticket"? POTO has been running for 23 years, and instead of being grateful, he and Forsythe, in an attempt to make MORE money, say that Leroux was wrong about how he wrote POTO!
Not professional at all!
missybear2009 2 years ago
The POTO was only ever 'based on' the novels of Leroux if you read the programme carefully. Therefore he doesn't "owe" Leroux anything. He has made something out of the novel which people love. ALW is an artist.. he gets excited about his projects, as an artist one always hopes that what one is currently doing will be the best reflection of ones talents. If you set out thinking "it might be ok, but probably not my best" then noone would bother to see it. He is an astute publicist, he knows MT
pianoboyo 2 years ago
If he's so "excited" about his projects, then why is he so quick to disown them when they flop?
Look, obviously you're set that ALW is a "musical genius", but I disagree. I will admit he has done some great work, but he isn't Beethoven.
My point is: if you don't agree with how the story was written, write your own...Don't sit there and say the original author was wrong, and you're right. Do an "adaptation" but don't "base" it off of someone else's works if you don't like them.
missybear2009 2 years ago 3
I completely agree with you about ALW being an astute publicist...that he is indeed. The problem though with his "it's the best thing I've done" statements is that -- quite understandably -- the more gullible among his fans buy that. People are already calling LND a "masterpiece"! The very same people, I'd like to add, who insist that its detractors shouldn't judge it before they've seen it when this is what they're doing themselves.
demeuredulac 2 years ago 4
And of course ALW owes Leroux something. These characters (except for the new ones) are Leroux's, not ALW's.
As for reading the programme carefully, you should note that some programmes include an article by Charles Hart in which Mr Hart describes the musical as "closely adher[ing]" to Leroux's novel. The majority of the scenes in the original musical come directly out of Leroux, albeit in a different sequential order, but not so as to alter its essence and effect.
demeuredulac 2 years ago 4
HA! You're absolutely right!!! If anyone believes that ALW doesn't owe Leroux anything, watch the 1920's silent film version of POTO. I did last night, and its basically a non-musical predecessor to ALW's show! All of the same characters are there, except Madame Giry. The same references to Phantom being the Opera Ghost/Strangler.
Almost every major scene in ALW's show is from Leroux's novel! Unless ALW wrote everything himself, he owes major credit where credit is due.
missybear2009 2 years ago 8
This has been flagged as spam show
Is this a joke? It is common knowledge that ALW based POTO on the novel by Gaston Leroux. ALW is a composer. He doesn't claim to write the books to his shows. Get the POTO companion book. The whole first section is about Leroux's novel, then the silent film and other film versions and how it was transformed into ALW's musical.
adkisol 2 years ago
Monsieur Webber veut violer ma belle histoire. Je me retourne dans ma tombe grâce à cette affreuse et dégeulasse suite. Les spectacteurs à Londres et à New York veulent-t-ils vraiment payer pour voir cette véritable épave ?!
MGastonLeroux 2 years ago 16
@MGastonLeroux Ne pas dire que personne ne voudrait voir ce spectacle. Juste parce que vous n'aimez pas qu'il ne signifie pas que quelqu'un d'autre ne fera pas. A moins que vous savez quel type de comédies musicales tout le monde dans ce monde aime, ne pas dit quelque chose comme ça.
lilsisasu 11 months ago
Okay, I think you've missed my point. What we were saying, in response to pianoboyo's posts, is that ALW owes credit to Leroux for POTO's creation. You're right, he didn't write the book, but pianoboyo contested that ALW doesn't owe Leroux anything. That's obviously untrue.
He did, however, help Forsythe write POM (he confirms that in the interview video), in which they say (in the preface) Leroux was inaccurate in how he wrote POTO. ALW should retire...now.
missybear2009 2 years ago 8
Oh, taking stock doesn't mean completely retracting his statement and "denying" his piece. Here's what I mean:
"Oh, the critics didn't like the show? Okay. While I do still feel it is my best piece so far, I understand what they are talking about with....insert critique here....and I'll take that into consideration when writing my next show"
NOT "What? I didn't say that...I was never too happy with how this was written to begin with but decided to release it anyway. Sorry about that! My bad!"
missybear2009 2 years ago 3
....Even a play "loosely" based on POM needs to be boycotted! The plot of the book reminds me of some combination of Jerry Springer/Maury/Montel paternity episode with a badly scripted soap opera, and requires for the reader to check their brain at the front cover in order to believe one bit of crap on the pages. It also requires you to forget everything you know of POTO, both novel and play, because it throws it out the window as well! It also excuses rape and murder....sick stuff....
missybear2009 2 years ago 5
.....I read a synopsis of the preface to Phantom of Manhatten. Turns out ALW actually HELPED Forsythe write this literary atrocity. Also, Forsythe actually wrote that Leroux was WRONG about how he wrote the story, or in his accuracy about the characters! Ummm, didn't Leroux CREATE POTO??? It amazes me how arrogant ALW and Forsythe were to "correct" the original author on how he wrote his fictional tale. I read the first chapter, narrated by Giry, and I nearly vomited.....
missybear2009 2 years ago 4
That is nothig new, missybear2009! I remember reading Dracula sequels which, albeit entertaining, have audacity to write such garbage how STOKER was wrong with his story and characters!
PlusSizeAngel 2 years ago
Doesn't make such awful sequels right, though...
hearmyfury 2 years ago 3
Comment removed
PlusSizeAngel 2 years ago
Problem with those sequels was, that although they were entertaining Gothic in their own right, they dragged Stoker´s classic characters in and raped them: Lucy was slut, Renfield rapist, Dracula saved Mina... gag me!
PlusSizeAngel 2 years ago
At least with those sequels the audience is relatively limited. With Love Never Dies being a huge entertainment venture that is planned to go global, masses of people are going to witness the violation of the original characters and the less intelligent among those masses will, I fear, take what's represented as "canon". :(
demeuredulac 2 years ago 4
Actually I think that, unfortunately, many people do not see Stoker´s canon with much respect! But now I stop speaking about Dracula in LND video!
PlusSizeAngel 2 years ago
@PlusSizeAngel: Seriously??? I've never read any of the Dracula novels, but I find it so amazing how some authors think they "know it all" once they write a book.
ALW needs to retire. Phantomscorp was right that he is probably past his prime. I say that of anyone who constantly says "this is my best work" about any new piece, but then quickly retracts just to save his own credibility when the show sucked.
POTO was perfect as it was. LND is simply the fruit of ALW's greed.
missybear2009 2 years ago 5
Yes, seriously!
Being fan of STOKER´S literary classic I was facepalming!
PlusSizeAngel 2 years ago
Well "raped" is an accurate description of what happened:
The Phantom escapes to New York, builds his own opera house, invites Christine, who brings her 12yo son, finds out he's the father because Raoul's impotent from Giry's letter, then tells C, then she gets shot and kid stays with Erik while R takes C back to Paris to bury her.
That means that in POTO Erik must have raped Christine which doesn't make sense no woman would kiss their rapist goodbye...POM actually glorifies rape and murder!
missybear2009 2 years ago 5
Exactly. These brats who gush about this sequel wouldn't find this story so vomit-inducingly beautiful if it happened to them.
Besides, the Phantom clearly DIDN'T rape Christine OR have consensual sex with her in the original since he even says he's been "denied the joys of the flesh" in the final scene!
This sequel needs to DIE.
hearmyfury 2 years ago 4
Thank you for explaining!
PlusSizeAngel 2 years ago
Hey, no problem!
As to hearmyfury: you're absolutely right! The only reason ALW can explain that is if he says that Erik felt guilty about raping her and doesn't consider it "joy"...Idk, knowing ALW he'll try!
To me the whole "sequel" story sounds like some pathetic fan's attempt to keep the Phantom going. I loved the ending of POTO, because you can't tell if he lives or dies but you just know he redeems himself. To actually continue it in a way that throws sense out the window is ludacris...
missybear2009 2 years ago 3
Dear missbear2009,
I am most touched by your profound thoughts on this matter and only wish that such wisdom would prevail around these parts.
May I suggest you join my initiative and sign up to either
Twitter [dot] com [slash] LoveShouldDie
or
Facebook [dot] com [slash] LuvShouldDie
or even both!
Love Never Dies may open across the world, but the fans will not be silent. My story needs no ludicrous sequel.
Your obedient servant,
The (Real) Phantom.
LoveShouldDie 2 years ago 4
......As for this "sequel", I've listened to this song a few times, as well as Coney Island Waltz...I'm not impressed. The lyrics lack creativity, the song itself, although beautifully sung by Ramin, just isn't that great. It's the same melody over and over. I know most of the POTO songs are repetetive, but at least the melody is more engaging and complex in those. I for one pray that they will not make a movie adaptation of this, and be so cruel as to cast Butler again!........
missybear2009 2 years ago 2
Okay would you stop bickering?! I haven't read the novel, or seen the original play, but I for one feel Butler was one of the worst possible choices, because he is NOT A SINGER! Why would anyone cast someone who can't sing in a MUSICAL? Oh, right, it's Joel Schumacher! I loved the movie, mainly because I was able to see POTO for the first time, but hearing Butler "sing" made me cringe. I felt like he was raspily shouting most of the lines, when the Phantom is supposed to sound angelic.........
missybear2009 2 years ago 2
While it may be true that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, Gerry Butler, however phenomenal an actor he may be, was not cut out to be the Phantom. FIrst off, he was too good looking, while the Phantom is supposed to be hideous. Secondly, and more importantly in a movie that is supposed to be a musical, his voice was more or less dismal. This is not a knock on Butler, as he can't help the voice he was born with, but rather a knock on those in charge of casting for the movie.
dafightastilremains 2 years ago 10
This has been flagged as spam show
Now this guy has got a VOICE!! But I'm still loyal to Gerry's version of Erik, and I hope that if ALW decides to do a sequel to the movie, he'll use Gerry again. I *WANT* to hear Gerry sing this!
BarrelsPolesandJack 2 years ago