Lex Veldhuis eliminates Allen Cunningham at WSOP Main Event 2009

[Taroxus]

In the end it's all just math, you determine someone's range on position, bet sizing, flop, tilting or not, any other parameter. After you have his range you use some math to determine the best line. I give it 10 years before bots take control of all the largest sites. If they can break chess, why wouldn't a computer be able to win at poker.

[Taroxus]

@Taroxus Nowadays, a computer would excell at SNG! Cashgames are still to hard at higher stakes to develop an algorithm

[godhedsmanden]

@Taroxus Taroxus Chess is a game of perfect information..

[Taroxus]

@godhedsmanden I was a drunk when i wrote these comments i think :). But still if a human can work it's way around imperfect information, couldn't an algorithm do the same? If you're playing vs an unknown, you still put him on a range don't you? You have no idea if you're correct but you base your actions on his estimated range, I believe an algorithm could do the same.

[godhedsmanden]

@Taroxus interesting.. i am not too sober now either, and..

i am not that good of a poker player, yet.

but i am dedicated, and i know alot about the game, and variance. and i doubt a computer can even beat me .. not in a day to day basis.. in NLHE or PLO HU SNG or 9max CG for that matter..

but i will investigate this further.

[hiephoi058]

fuck Cunningham

[KwNJn1]

Eli Elezra is way too cool.

[zinedinefede]

In my opinion Allen is in the top 3 poker players

[joebrochill92]

@zinedinefede Ivey, Dwan, Antonius, Galfond, and Cates would looove to play Cunningham for the highest stakes possible.

[AcesInHole]

Lmao Eli "Queen, 2 Queens, Queen Eight, 2 Eights.......ALLO!" HAHAHAHAHA

[PoKeRFoRNiA]

Lex fucked that donk up BIG TIME

call tournament life with Q8? HAHAHA what a fish. dead money.

[aRsh0]

@PoKeRFoRNiA if u say that about allen cunningham dude u have NO CLUE about poker players at all ...

[Araknophobik]

@PoKeRFoRNiA dumbass. you obviously know nothing of poker. lex is a lag. allen cunningham made a move. might worked if lex didn't have KK. but by then he was pot committed. allen cunningham is one of the all time greats. you fail at life

[Taroxus]

@Araknophobik How can he possibly fail at life by writing a youtube comment. Don't you know we're all drunk here?

[jesusthroughmary]

@PoKeRFoRNiA Yeah, $10,000,000 in live tournament earnings, five bracelets and a circuit ring, a Main Event final table and the 2005 POY. What a fish.

[VicenzoV]

Eli got a disarming smile and he's a great player, but he's also the second whiniest player next to Hellmuth.

[qwert549]

I think he saw 1 king and goes, raise, cause that is lex.

[PoKeRFoRNiA]

Lex is such a nice person. I like Lex. He showed some mercy and told dealer to at least deal out a diamond on the turn to give Allen a chance. "ok ok give him a diamond" =P

I would pray for no diamond and win the pot right away because I have seen many runner bad beats. I feel selfish for that. Lex is not only professional, he shows mercy and likes to give people a chance. I should learn from this and do the same in live games.

[mmnmnmmmnmmn]

@PoKeRFoRNiA Sigh.. buddy, I understand what you're trying to say, and you "THINK" you know it all, and all your doing is reapeating the same Wrong/Irrelevant crap.. You just dont get it..

You think his play is bad, because he lost all his chips, you couldnt be more "results oriented", and you should know the outcome is IRRELEVANT.

You think the 3 bet is weak, when It's the SAME THING as jamming, They both know that. Allen probably just figured it MIGHT tighten Lex's callin range a bit.

[mmnmnmmmnmmn]

@PoKeRFoRNiA I'm ashamed I've even had too explain the same thing, this many times lol, If you still dont get it, then just forget it lol:

What "YOU" see : You see, Allen 3 bet, and then calling off his chips with a q8 suited, vs a players KK, and lose the tournament.

What "YOU" fail too see: You fail too see is, How wide Lex is opening, You fail too see , the 3 bet is the SAME DAMN THING here as a jam, ( it's just being "cute" ) You fail too see, all the times Lex WOULD HAVE folded..

[PoKeRFoRNiA]

@mmnmnmmmnmmn What you fail to see is that Lex is running over the table and he doesn't fold. he is running like god and has most chips in table. did you see Lex calling off Muenz's all-in with K4 and winning a big pot? lex doesn't fold. so there is no fold equity. if there is no fold equity, then you gotta win by a showdown. allen tries to play back and win by a showdown with bad hand q8. therefore, he's a calling station donkey. lex WOULD NOT have folded with the range you are talking about.=)

[mmnmnmmmnmmn]

@PoKeRFoRNiA HAHA, So he doesnt fold any of his opening range? Lol, so you're calling Lex a donk, after your praising him? He is not an idiot, and would not call with all of his range, and if he did, we'll guess what, the q8s is 47ish percent, vs his opening range and with the dead money, it'd still be slightly +cEV lol, and Lex would not go crazy and call of his entire range anyway, because he knows what a + or - play is

So again, WTF are you trying to prove here? Ur saying pointless things

[PoKeRFoRNiA]

@mmnmnmmmnmmn I never called Lex a donk. He's running over the table and he doesn't fold because he has everyone covered by 3x or more to keep playing even if he loses. he's fucking everyone up in the table by not folding. he's running like god. stupid allen still tries to play back with q8 instead of waiting for better hand and better spot. this is early stage of tournament if you don't know. this is not endgame of sng where blind is high. it is stupid dumb play. don't you not get that?

[mmnmnmmmnmmn]

@PoKeRFoRNiA haha, Ight man, I'm just done, You dont get it, and thats completly fine, The fact that I had to basically repeat myself this many times, is sad.. but no more lol..

:) later

[PoKeRFoRNiA]

@mmnmnmmmnmmn good boy. you finally came to senses that allen made a bad play and got eliminated. it's ok to accept the fact that allen played like calling station donkey. in poker, when you're beat, you're beat. you need to learn to let go of inferior hands. lex folded 50k to phil ivey bcause he felt that he's beat although he was wrong. that is professional. donks use "committed" as excuse to not let go of inferior hands. lex is pro. day 2, he layed down two pairs against other's higher 2pr.

[mmnmnmmmnmmn]

@PoKeRFoRNiA You make me laugh, good one sir. :)

(ps. Pm me if you'd like too play, 400-1knl , 2-4 tables)

Leme know, you'd obviously want to play a fishy :P so lets set it up, leme know buddy.

[mmnmnmmmnmmn]

@PoKeRFoRNiA I'm about done with this, because all you're saying is Irrelevent things, and pointless things, I guess you just dont get it, and are trying too somehow convience me Allen played it bad, when his play is clearly +cEV

You think Allen, played it bad, because your results oriented, and you think Lex is amazing, because his bluffs worked out on that day, and then got paid off with a big hand, again.. Results oriented.

You obviously have only begun to scratch the poker surface..

[PoKeRFoRNiA]

@mmnmnmmmnmmn you should learn definition of the world "result oriented". if allen won the hand and i say lex should've folded KK, then that's definition of result oriented. Did allen play stupid on this hand? Was there a better approach to this hand? right play was to fold Q8 garbage hand, still keep 30bb or more and wait for better spot. it was supposed to be fold>all-in>reraise/call. read some short stack strategies online and you'll learn what i'm talking about.

[NegreanuDan33]

@zipha6592

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[fumofunghi]

Allen Cuntingham

[PoKeRFoRNiA]

@fumofunghi very good joke. i like it. he is cunt. he says q8 is best hand. but he had aj and better hands. allen is a liar. he makes excuse to cover his stupid play. stupid play is prone to elimination. he played stupid, so he was eliminated.

[sternumagnum]

Veldhuis is Dutch (this means from Holland).

-huis is pronounced "-Ha-us" in Durch.

Yes, "Cruyff"is actually pronounced "Kr-a-i-f"...

[curuzu]

I don't know why but I don't like Veldhuis's attitude, I feel like if he can stick a knife in your back.. he would

[lg123xyz]

This is the first time I`ve seen Eli talk this much trash at a table, whats he got against Veldhuis, unless trying to put him on tilt, doesn`t look like its working.

[sikfreak6969]

LOL @ Elezra..

Elezra: Queen, 2 Queen, Q 8, 2 8 helloo...

Lex: Thanks friend

Elezra: Your welcome....cmon...this is Allan Cunningham buddy.. (i.e stfu and I will root for a real pro...)

[PoKeRFoRNiA]

Horrible reraise and horrible call. Pot odds to call was 14100:6024. Equity odds was 81:19. Bad play. Allen Cunningham is overrated. He doesn't understand odds. Lex make all in move without second thought. This should have been fold.

[hockeyislife67]

@PoKeRFoRNiA against anything other than aa kk or qq its the right call; based on the way lex was playing for the entire day; that is a snap call for allen.

[hasteros]

@PoKeRFoRNiA you cant be able to have an opinion about a person that has made much more money than you in this specific game,analysing pot odds which is something he knows better than you(thats why he's a pro)and also you cant understand the fact that he had been card-dead for the most part of the tour and then he had a little worse than medium that would possibly be 40-60 or 50-50 with what lex would probably have...

[PoKeRFoRNiA]

@hasteros He wasn't card dead. He played horribly. Why did he reraise with Q8? But that part, ok, i can see it as a bluff to scare lex. But when Lex 4-bet all-in instantly to you without second thought, you have to learn how to tell yourself that you tried and got caught, time to let go. Allen didn't do that. That is why he lost and he is eliminated. =)

[mmnmnmmmnmmn]

@PoKeRFoRNiA Joking right? The only reason he didnt 3 bet jam, was too make his hand look stronger, you cant commit, 70ish percent of your chips preflop, and then fold lol.. It would of been awlful if cunningham would of folded after lex 4 bets.. you wouldnt 3 bet and then fold 20-25ish bb's would you? lol

Either your comment was a joke, or if your playing poker to make money, you might need to start putting in alot more time, on the studying end.

[PoKeRFoRNiA]

@mmnmnmmmnmmn Making 3-bet most your chips is a sign of weakness. It is a sign that you want to be aggressive but you are afraid to commit all of your chips. Learn to play short-stack poker. When you are short stack, you must go all in or fold. Allen is a loose-passive calling station donkey. I don't 3 bet and then fold 20-25bb because I 3 bet all-in or fold from the start. You must study and learn how to play short stack poker. Lex is a professional and he is the future generation of poker.

[mmnmnmmmnmmn]

@PoKeRFoRNiA Lol, re-read my comment please.. obviously you dont 3 bet and fold here, He obviously thought the 3 bet looked stronger then just a jam.

3 betting, and jamming, is the same thing here.

you said a 3bet is a sign of weakness? Thats idiotic, you cant generalize a play like that lol, and besides, his 3-bet is the same as a jam, so it doesnt matter.

HIs play was mathmatically +cEV if Lex is opening just a bit wide, which he is, so i have no clue WTF your trying to prove here?

[PoKeRFoRNiA]

@mmnmnmmmnmmn did you see previous hand? Lex called Muenz's all-in bet with k4. Lex is loose aggressive player who calls light. Now, what makes you think Lex will fold to Allen. Lex showed the table with his K4 call "don't fuck with me". Stupid Allen still tries to play back with Q8? Allen played stupid. That is why he got eliminated. you must learn and understand that so called pros make mistakes. if 3-bet is same as jam, then he was suppose to jam. Read and learn short-stack strategies.

[mmnmnmmmnmmn]

@PoKeRFoRNiA Lol, If he thought a jam would get more respect, then he would of just jammed, but I'm sure he figured a 3bet would get more respect, so he did that, His play is still mathmatically profitable, even if he'd call with k4s.

Your sure making me LOL thow. You're saying Allens play was bad, and I'm telling you, it's +cEV do the damn math, so how the hell can you tell me to read a SS stratagy, when you dont even realize, his play is a positive play?

You sure are results oriented lol

[PoKeRFoRNiA]

@mmnmnmmmnmmn Yes, do the math. Pot odds for Allen to call was 14100:6025. KK vs Q8 is 81:19. This is -cEV. Right play was to fold pre-flop Q8. This is -EV play. He made that play because he got emotional and angry at Lex. Since he was short stacked, he was suppose to go all-in or fold. Not 3-bet most of your stack and keep few chips behind you like a pussy. Why keep few chips behind you? It's a sign of weakness that you want to be aggressive but you're scared to commit all of ur chips.

[mmnmnmmmnmmn]

@PoKeRFoRNiA If you dont get it man.. then w/e It doesnt bother me, and obviously your not familiar with it, and that is the most basic of things, especially if you play turbo MTT's or turbo S+G's . Everyone now adays knows of the unexploitable shove, and how powerful it is.

Just try and look it up man.. because i dont want to read another irrelevent reply, I'm tired of hearing someone that sounds like they read a book or 2, learned about some basic stuff, and know thinks they know it all..

[PoKeRFoRNiA]

@mmnmnmmmnmmn People lose for 1 of 2 reasons. One is stupid play. Another is unlucky(badbeat and unfortunate). Which category does this hand go under? It goes under stupid play. Allen could've folded pre-flop from the start and wait for better spot. Stupid play is subject to elimination. Right play was suppose to be fold. Next to right play is to shove. Not 3-bet most of your chips and then call 4-bet all-in with Q8 to win by showdown.

Fold>Shove>3-bet/call.

[mmnmnmmmnmmn]

@PoKeRFoRNiA Lol at this.. FFS..

You're being soo results oriented and if you had a clue, you'd realize thats one of the worst things you can be in poker.

You could fold.. however jamming is going to be +cEV so its obviously not a bad play, and most likely the optimal play. (3 betting is the same, IN THIS SITUATION as jamming, and you cant say it looks weaker or stronger, because it would be player dependent obviously lol)

All you keep saying is the same shit, wtf are you trying to prove?

[PoKeRFoRNiA]

every poker players know that by shoving, you win the pot in 2 ways. you win the pot uncontested and by showdown. by calling, you can only win the pot in 1 way and that is by showdown. Allen tries to win the showdown with Q8. therefore, it is a bad play and he is a calling station donkey. If allen shoved all in, i would assume he is bluffing. But allen can't let go of his hand and tries to win showdown with Q8. stupid play is subject to elimination. he played stupid, that is why he is eliminated

[mmnmnmmmnmmn]

@PoKeRFoRNiA Lol, you clearly dont understand, how to do the math, because you'd know your not playing aginst the KK, your playing aginst how wide you think his OPENING RANGE is, vs how wide you think his CALLING is. Not the way you explained it

I also already said, a 3 bet is the same as a jam here, Allen, never just decided to flat call, he decide to commit too the hand, IE.. Jam.

Yes he is 20 percent, vs Lex's hand, but you CANT know he had that hand, so you play vs. the ENTIRE RANGE..

[mmnmnmmmnmmn]

@PoKeRFoRNiA After you posted that, I realize you dont understand, you get the basics.. TBH.. You understand what pot odds are, but this is, an "unexploitable shove" ( even thow it was a 3 bet, He's already commited, they both know that, and he'd figure it'd just make Lex's CALLING RANGE smaller. )

You could fold, however vs a reasonable OPENING RANGE of Lex, IE.. (22+ a2+ 56s+910+ ), It would be +cEV, It is completly irrelevent he had KK here, because it's just as likely he opened j10o..

[PoKeRFoRNiA]

@mmnmnmmmnmmn i am trying to prove that allen cunningham got schooled by lex. online > live players anyday. lex fooled allen into thinking that lex is bluffing when lex was holding 2nd nuts. lex played aggressive the whole time just for this moment and he got it.

when lex call all in with k4 against muenz, people say it is bad call. when allen call all-in with q8, people justify allen's play with such and such. allen made bad call and bad play. that is why he got eliminated.

[agincourts]

big surprise... the jew lied.... whats next? holocaust 2? return of the holocospiracy?

[RIgnace]

Too bad for Allen. Lex is good but Cunningham is better.

[PoKeRFoRNiA]

@RIgnace Is that why Cunningham got outplayed and lost to Lex? Lex owned Cunningham. Cunningham is old school. Lex is the new generation of Poker. Lex outplayed Cunningham. Lex is better.

[Randy1337]

americans are too stupid to spell names.It`s not VELD- HOUSE

[itzzmenace]

@Randy1337 Where in the video was it spelled VELDHOUSE? I don't know about you but I see Veldhuis on the screen the whole time. Whatever country you're from need some glasses.

[Randy1337]

@itzzmenace

yes i know but the announcers call him veldhouse.its wrong

[itzzmenace]

@Randy1337 You have to put their accent's into account also. I'm sure you won't be able to pronounce Chinese or Japanese names as well.

[Randy1337]

@itzzmenace

ofc i would.Yokohama and Lee.Whats so hard about it?I`m not Dutch btw but i can pronounce it.

[PoKeRFoRNiA]

@Randy1337 You are racist. They don't know how to pronounce veldhuis but meaning of -huis is house. so they said his name in English version. Tell me how you would pronounce Armenian, East European and Asian last names. You will not come close to pronouncing their names correctly.

[Randy1337]

@PoKeRFoRNiA

ofc i would be able to.How do you know?

[Randy1337]

@PoKeRFoRNiA

:-)

[dayjun]

I mean 0:30

[dayjun]

0:29 many times over

[Vhozard]

Eli Ezra calls Lex Veldhuis a donkey? LOL

[Bel1990Bel]

wtf allen is a brilliant player. You should see him on million dollar cash game. He was fucking incredible. He is player of the year in 2004 and has about 10 million in tournament winnings. It's so funny when losers like you talk shit about someone like him. LMAO

[PoKeRFoRNiA]

allen is calling station donkey. why did he reraise and call with Q8? bad players like this on full tilt win. there is justice afterall. stupid allen. Lex owned him. He fooled Allen when he has Kings. Lex is pro.

[4JayeP]

@PoKeRFoRNiA You're right Allen does suck. You should go to the Bellagio and plays him heads up and show him your the boss. He's not that hard to find. You might also find him at the Wynn. Come back and tell us how you did.

[Nuther10cents]

@PoKeRFoRNiA lol am i the only one who can tell you're trolling?

[mm1k3y]

lmao i love eli

[Violincrazy]

wow reraise a calling station with queen 8 hell of a way to burn $10k tee hee :-x

[kalee6]

wat a cocky son of a dog

[gilyv051]

Ok, how was anyone able to see the second King preflop??

[prongated]

...it's not live commentary.

[nathanrenard]

but the stupid thing is sometimes cards go to showdown, but they keep the other one that wasn't able to see a mystery

[gilyv051]

ok, your right, stupid post. -.-

[florisiznogood]

yes

[uguysarefried]

@gilyv051 hahahahahahahahahahahaha

[lutzzze]

@gilyv051 Its no problem to see it from his angle I imagne...

[Furthermore23]

what did eli elezra said to lex in the final of the video???

[SerialThrillr]

I actually lied, i think he's a much better player than you, and he's got a much better record then you

[TekuelaII]

@SerialThrillr i agree... for now...