On Philosophy, Part 1: Nihilism and Meaning

[jennync1989]

I disagree that suicide is cowardly. I think that if there is not purpose suicide is just as logical and practical as living. Everyone is eventually overcome by life, we all die,so as I see it there is no winning. It doesn't matter if you commit suicide or live until you die naturally because eventually you WILL die so how is one better than the other. If you believe life is meaningless, its not hard to see how suicide is a perfectly good option that makes perfect sense as well.

[SumAwe69]

I agree with you up until you said there's more than just chemical reactions and atoms to everything

[jamesellis33]

I really don't like the treatment of subject matter by this narrator. It was very simplistic and there are better philosophers Camus is cliche. The way he dictacts his philosophy seems like a literature professor posing as a philosopher. Which, i'm aware of his background, but it taints his philosophy. Please discuss this subject matter at least using some form of formal logic (predicate,propositional).

[Neshuah1]

well, ending of your video contradicts the whole video.

[VincitOmniaVerit]

To be a true nihilist one cannot be compelled to do anything. Whether it is getting out of bed, or even killing yourself, all of it requires some degree of effort, and that further requires justification which ultimately there is none. Yet, why continue living? It is because, even in a world devoid of meaning, our genes, our will to survive is much stronger than us. That is why we can never fully be nihilists, because we are still living organisms fighting to live on.

[lordrazi111693]

nihilism and demotivationals. what more can a godless heathen ask for in life?

[OrganicKing]

how do you value nothing but value nilhism as objective truth?

[ganza222]

Great video. Finally somebody who understands.

[floresgt3]

Oh and "the just crowd" they say just because everything ends and then if you are right then there will be no observer to observe and record data and if information gets lost in black holes or get lost when we die then the real question is.... "if the tree were to fall, and no one were around to hear it, did it really fall"?

[floresgt3]

If we are to make our own truths, and god is part of someones truth giving them the will to live and carry on providing for a family or whatever makes them feel validated as a living being, then how are you right? Im not religious but there are holes in this theory like them all. But thanks for the video, i have a better understanding.

[Aldelirium]

LOL @ absurd hero

[benoo1232107]

Fuck you cosmos. Fuck you.

[SineFractal]

Existentialism 

[markdeming1989]

What if intelligence is eternal as is matter. People ask, which came first the chicken or the egg? Well I ask, which came first, energy or matter? Well neither they have always existed. Which came first essence or existence? If they are co-existent then it clears up alot of problems

[stephenbigboy]

fuck nihilism! all the gods you believe in in that ideology can suck my dick, because i'm not cheating my wife. . .especially since i'm not married!!

[WujekNiemaBycCCPRady]

Life if not meaningless life is a meaning of its own. Its genes. Once you are trapped on some form of meaning over the other and you are robbed of your trap and you still trapped then you are nihilist. You dont believe in god but you generate a problem from it. Thats nihilist. When you say - so what that there is no god? Nihilist does not answer to that. When you answer worth living for you say that life has meaning of its own, so you find a meaning.

[WujekNiemaBycCCPRady]

You are not a nihilist. And your video doesn't show a nihilism, but a humanism my friend. You overcome a nihilism and started to be humanist. Nihilism is a state of alienation of a killed god, like a sheeps without a sheephard. Some sheeps stays with the god that we killed, some wonder away, some find out its not a big deal and start to be a wild sheep living on their own without a killed god.

[thuggie1]

your take on suicide is completely wrong and also insulting

[millball]

The FOOL says in his heart 'there is no God'! Psalm 14:1-3.

"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Romans 6:23.

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16.

"Repent, therefore, of this wickedness of yours, and pray to the Lord that, if possible, the intent of your heart may be forgiven you." Acts 8:28

[Wildebeest2008]

I love your mind

[leegeorgeson]

Nihilism is our ace in the hole against the inevitable toxin that is religion, partisanism and contemporary values...

[Gatzlocke]

I know that this feeling of love is just a chemical reaction in my brain affecting certain neural pathways caused by a mix of dopamine and other chemicals reacting to the optical stimulation from the light from a certain female human who is also controlled by the cerebro-chemical affect of an advanced reproductive system due to our bipedal and social evolution. But frankly, I don't care.

[Neuromance27]

@Gatzlocke Haha, I'm gonna quote you.

[Xxd3cayxX]

Wow, this is the exact way (almost) I have deciphered information in my life and what has led me to this video. Odd that we seem to have the same interpretation of this "event" and the same reaction toward, the absurd and uncaring (although beautiful) cosmos - such as that of "FUCK YOU!". Lol. Awesome video though, really vividly described, and good emphasis on key points and use of images.

[Valkbg]

@nothingness36 No. Actually he empraced nihilism as the basis of good. Yes he was against permanent nihilism but not as a means of destroying and then creating new values. He was a nihilist but one who built afterwards

[cuteEvil87]

the face of moral decay 1:16

[Dontmakemecomeover5]

Killing yourself just seems illogical to me.If your gonna die either way why not live anyway?

[Innovater6]

as a nihilist i feel indifferent to this video

[rwtj01]

I liked this video.

not that it matters, lol ;)

[yarafeld]

@TheAbsurdHero: Excellent video, very articulate and comprehensive. Thank you, I have been trying to find such a video on nihilism for some time.

[rileyk86]

Typical biased Americans. In Japan suicide is not considered wrong, immoral or bad in any way. It is seen as a means to an end, if one is dishonored in someway.

[Gatzlocke]

@rileyk86 That's eastern vs western thinking. And of course Americans are biased. We're westerners. To OUR point of view, you fight to regain that honor through hard work and dedication, ending ones life is the easy, cowards way out. Running away from your problems instead of facing them bravely.

[1misanthropist]

Suicide requires more courage than most people have, while at the same time is rational the majority of the time. Such is my opinion.

[XxRaWr24xX]

The problem with Camus and Kierkegaard is that they both dismiss suicide as a valid action with no real philosophical justification. Camus then basis Absurdism on this weak foundation.

[HybridD91]

Don't find meaning, create it...that should be go on a shirt. You can shut a theist up when you say you aren't obligated to follow their god. That throws a wrench (one of many) into their arguments. When you make your decisions without the need of a god, it renders their god useless.

[CoffeePatron]

Unfortunately this world is populated with philosophy and religion. You can't ignore it of course, it's part of our mythos. But Goddamn it suppresses the average soul. Nihilism, what horse shit. What did Nietzsche give us besides a few words like "lifestyle".

[machinations7]

@CoffeePatron LoL. That is why you will never understand the significance of Nietzsche's ideas. You want things and meaning to be given to you. Nietzsche doesn't give you anything, you have to work for it. It's the same with life. Nihilism can be a phoenix transformation. The old tired illusions are shattered and destroyed, and if you can survive that, from the ashes you will be born anew.

[CoffeePatron]

@machinations7 I read Camus and Nietzsche. Rise like a phoenix....you do mean a mental breakdown right? At least that's the sorta rise Fred got. My major is in eastern religion, so I tend to think of western philosophers as neurotic and boring. I did choose bad wording though, of course I don't expect meaning to be handed to me, I don't believe such a thing exists, but that doesn't bother me in the least.

[machinations7]

@CoffeePatron Nietzsche's mental derangement was caused by untreated syphilis. Nihilism is the realization that there is no justification for what you value. It's not easy to reconcile this belief while living amongst people everywhere giving reasons and rationalizations for their value judgments and actions that are in all cases baseless. Nihilism is not a contradiction, it is not some impossible belief in nothingness, it does not mean that a nihilist should have no reason to do anything.

[machinations7]

@CoffeePatron So no, I am not talking about mental breakdowns. When you read Nietzsche, how much of it do you think you understood? I mean, it's not exactly material you can skim and easily comprehend. I've had to re-read a lot of his writing just to approach an idea of what Nietzsche meant.

[CoffeePatron]

@machinations7 To be honest, not very much. I meditate for 2 hours a day and when I read the IChing or the Upanishads or any book dealing with eastern thought it seems much more base and illogical. I don't think much of logic and rationality and wordy Existentialism and Nihilism, because it is trying to make sense of the senseless. They have a place though, and I'm glad they are helpful to some.

[machinations7]

@CoffeePatron Okay, I appreciate your response. I wouldn't associate Nietzsche with logic and rationality (not to say he was illogical) -- Nietzsche would have recognized their limits, too. And as human beings we will always try to make sense of our world, no matter whether we are nihilist, existentialist, absurdist, realist, pragmatist, or whatever. Anyhow, thanks for the discussion.

[machinations7]

haha, a little dramatic touch at the end, but your video is accurate, precise, and well-done.

[ilyLaura1]

@machinations7

what's wrong with a dramatic touch? -.-

[machinations7]

@ilyLaura1 absolutely nothing :-)

[codester1111]

Also I suggest Hume's essay on suicide, "people" who die by suicide die by the cosmos's hand just as one does by a disease or anything else. Determinism or everything that is of the cosmos must have a previous state.

[codester1111]

Cowardice? One cannot rebel against the comos because 1. "You" are the comos obeying the same lays as it and 2. the Word "You" and "I" is a total delusion.The word person is as vaporous as values...Objectively they do not exist in this universe they are but interpretation...A chair cannot exist upon its own in this universe.the world of the small beyond even the sub-atomic world is the only place of finding anything that can exist in and of itself. Like Plato's cave story. The universe just is.

[TheLoreSociety]

A claim about the existence of inherent "meaning" is useless. By what can someone come to that conclusion? And what is "meaning" anyway? It's the mere philosophical abstraction used to describe events in their contexts. What is "caring"? Is it "concern"? If it is then the universe supplies you with this. It's called "self." The very idea of "care" stems from it.

Nihilism isn't an answer to a tyrannt because the universe is not one. Only our delusional frame of reference enslaves us.

[iamthebearsnuggler]

This is very good. Thank you for turning me on to Camus.

[llplatess]

Nihilism in the past has been used to take on the big boys who would normally fuk us over in a indecent fashion and leave us with nothing. so get out there do your job and balance the seesaw, kill if you have to. or will you just dismiss this by correcting my grammer, spelling and sit there in your comfy chair and think about it. hell make another video.

[MrRichardATrice]

Mathematically (the only truth not based upon opinion), we live in an infinite universe. Any number compared to infinity is literally nonexistant, it doesnt even scratch the surface. Thus we can make the connection that, we, as compared to infinity are, and never can possibly be anything. Thus too, our individual ideas and mass religion will never really have any meaning outside of our miniscule animal viewpoints. Humanity and everything it stands for is merely... relative.

[mashnitski]

hahahahaha what the fuck i accedently clicked this video and its a bull shit wat the fuck is wrong with people i dont fucking even know whats is it mazafucka hahahah ah TheAbsurdHero fuckin bitch god crieted us to live our live and die and after there is hell or heaven. so shut the fuck up wit your nonsense religions or wht the fuck is this i dont.so my point is this vidoe is fucke up so hard feckers .well and i can go one bitches fucker morons

[MrRichardATrice]

@mashnitski

[)]

[tubofjoy]

@mashnitski

I hope you misspelled all of that on purpose, if not then there really is no meaning to live.....for you that is

[mashnitski]

hahahahaha what the fuck i accedently clicked this video and its a bull shit wat the fuck is wrong with people i dont fucking even know whats is it mazafucka hahahah ah TheAbsurdHero fuckin bitch

[AEVautomatic]

suicide is caused by the brains reaction to stimuli and not "cowardice." You are ignorant for posting bullshit on you tube.

[Harrymfink]

He isn't negating that there are chemically unstable individuals that kill themselves. He is stating that if you prescribe to nihilism why not just kill yourself because there is no inherited meaning to life. Then he goes on to say that it is philisophical cowardice. Think before you insult.

[derrickwaynelange]

@AEVautomatic I believe he means suicide on the grounds of succoming to the nihilistic point of view. In other words, killing yourself because your scared that your life is void of meaning is a deemable form of cowardice ( a term of our own personal understanding, mind you). My spelling is bad

[AEVautomatic]

@derrickwaynelange However you look at it is still just phsychology and not cowardice.

[derrickwaynelange]

@AEVautomatic TRUE. But then bravery must also just be psychology. And madness. And love. And empathy. And apathy. And sadness. And so on..... But does that mean we shouldn't acknowledge these catagories of a way to describe a state of being? If some one is being cowardly, because its all psychology in the end, are they not actually being what we understand to be cowardly?

[AEVautomatic]

@derrickwaynelange I am a compatibilist too; however it is still not cowardice. Suicide occurs because the amount of pain is more than can be dealt with thus suicide. Not cowardice it is just functionalism. And, if like you say, people arrive at nihilism and decide life is not worth living based on what they see as logic then that is not cowardice either. It would be a reasonable choice in their view. So it’s not cowardice. Granting compatibilism does not force people to always be an agent?

[AEVautomatic]

@derrickwaynelange Sometimes people don't have agency. Moral nihilism is proven false anyway. So these people kil themselves on a miscalculation and not cowardice. If hard nihilism were true people who don't kill themselves would be irrational and slaves to biological and social coditioning. Hard nihilism is bullshit though.

[AEVautomatic]

@derrickwaynelange i would recommend evaluating your compatabilist view again.

[derrickwaynelange]

@AEVautomatic I like what you said about miscalculation, not cowardice. zgood point

[TheChad326]

@AEVautomatic Suicide is not just run on chemicals in our brain.

Unless it's purely accidental, Suicide is a climactic event that is created by building feelings of tension and anxiety. Where one's mind is racing with sadness, agitation, and confusion. And the suicide attempters almost always regret attempting as soon as it's out of their control.

If you want solid evidence of such: All 26 survivors of the Golden Gate suicides claimed to regret it as soon as they jumped. Then they fell.....

[HybridD91]

@TheChad326 Doesn't sucide require chemicals in our brains?

[NihilisticSliceshow]

nice pic of ted haggard lol. he came to a church i used to attend like 1.5 years ago and did this big apology thing. i didn't realize at the time that he is very famous...er infamous.

[VGRemix]

nice tough with the Dr. Who theme at the end, ha.

[girozone1]

Very good.

[Wapitdownthehatchguy]

Gluktok deetat BO SHUDA!

[dumbzebra]

On the other side camus said that man has a duty to be solidary with other people, which he practically pulled out of his butt

[MrRa1ndrop]

I really liked this, something about his voice is quite soothing.

[enotdetcelfer]

In exploring the implications of determinism on phenomenon like perception, choice, meaning, emotion, and value, I came to the conclusion that, because nothing can be created or destroyed, only begin and end to exist as a pattern, meaning must arise from within reality, as part and parcel of it, from elemental components of existential truth.

Nothing is something, therefore the universe.

We are part of the universe, therefore "finding" meaning and "creating" meaning is fundamentally equal.

[AdonisKingAXC]

"I think..Therefore it does not matter"

[MsAlexisTo]

@nanoduckling This shall be a normative statement henceforth:

"Nanoduckling is a delusional simplton" Who has take some freshmen courses in philosphy congratulations, but has not furthered himself any further morally... (opinonated) and sad : ( turn to the light young jedi before the darkside consumes you. Sorry I know I would drop this but this is just too up my alley if you want to go live on stickam publiclly debate about this let me know cyber humiliation awaits thee simpleton.

[AllOtherNamesTaken2]

The reason you don't kill yourself is because nihilism also says, "there is no reason not to do anything." in addition to saying, "there is no reason to do anything." I'm a nihilist and I'm not in rebellion against anything. I just do shit.

And the idea that suicide or religion is "cowardly" is hypocritical and anti nihilist. It wouldn't make any difference at all if I were dead or a crackpot christian.

[hellohobo4]

AWESOME AWESOME AWESOME AWESOME! Finally someone in the world shares my perspective. Wait sorry, let me rephrase that. Finally I have found something I belong to.

[windmoveswater]

wow, Nihilism sounds a lot like Zen! :D 

[Jcolinsol]

You got your materialism in my nihilism. It tastes ironic (cue red dwarf theme music)

[dessertfoxx]

"fuck you cosmos" made my day. but life still sucks as a nihilist, oh well, doesn't matter.

^lol

[Slide2671]

I don't neccesarily believe life is pointless. I just believe most of life has become pointless (consumerism, politics, fashion, pretty much all things in mainstream society). I guess you could call me a nihilist. Fight Club led me to this amazing belief system.

[jemmre]

Thanks for this video. I also came to similar conclusions from my readings of these authors. Nietzsche's "Thus spoke Zarathustra" had an especially profound impact on me. I also think that living in a world that is not fully comprehended and understood leaves more to the imaginative and creative faculties of the human psyche. Science can explain much and has and will go on to describe more about the world we live in. But we alone must decide and create the ultimate meaning of life.

[TheHomelessCripple]

This video's contents is very thing I realized when i was 9, only better worded.

[BanjoEclipse]

What the "just" crowd fails to understand is that thinking our emotions are just chemicals doesn't make us experience them any less vividly.

[BanjoEclipse]

Finally, a nihilist who isn't just some angry, radical anarchist. I agree with your nihilism. There may be no god, we may have no souls, but we have our beautiful experience. There may be nothing, but it is a sweet nothing.

[MsAlexisTo]

It is arguable that the universe is devoid of inherent meaning however we as human beings find meaning in everyday things that we observe with the senses that "God" gave to us and so since this meaning exists in us and in our minds it also exists in the universe. Emotions being just biochemical reactions? our emotions guide our moral compasses people that have a conscience when they hurt people they feel "guilt" the primary emotion to that is sadness which is an undesirable emotion when we cont

[MsAlexisTo]

do things that we deem are not "good" most people will experience a negative emotion related to that action. If a Nihilist wants to argue with me that good and evil do not exist, I would ask him what those words meant, and since we have given them a meaning it does exist in the here and now. I know people who are almost devoid of emotion save the most easily summoned one the occasional rare angry outburst but for some reason they always do the right thing. Good and evil exists in people.

[redmidlight]

@MsAlexisTo Good and evil do not exist.  There is simply what helps us survive (not just as an individual but as a group) and what threatens us. "Good" and "Evil" came about a spiritual way of understanding our most basic instincts before we had the knowledge and science we do now. It's a primitive paradigm, ironically attempting to escape being "primitive." Hurting someone else is damaging to yourself and to the group, since it would reduce the strength of your "tribe," so to speak.

[MsAlexisTo]

Your a total fucking idiot, Albert Camus was not even a nhilist. If good and evil don't exist how come we have given them a definition. How are we able to comprehend and distinguish between a Good action and an evil action. Good read my comment again and educate yourself you brainless buffon.

[adzug]

@MsAlexisTo a better question is why you need to be angry about this instead of talking about it and letting ur opinion do the talking.

[MsAlexisTo]

Nilishm as a philosphy is dangerous, the positive advancement, and progression of the human race has relied heavily on our distinction between good and evil. The future of the human race depends on it's ability to adhere to our morales and values, to ensure our peaceful coexistience. Try running through a couple scenarios where you are faced with a morale dilemma logic alone will not help you arrive at an answer, it is not right to end another's life or to hurt someone else.

[adzug]

@MsAlexisTo ok well at least when you calmly explain your ideas ppl can listen to the content of your message. remember that raising your voice is the nxt best thing to being correct on an issue. truth is truth even when whispered against the loudest of lies. but i disagree bout good/evil and the progression of humanity. i do consider some things evil. but often theres lotsa shades of gray where theres no clear answers. lifes often complicated. this can be a discussion to large for this box tho

[nanoduckling]

@MsAlexisTo Are you suggesting the reason you behave in a manner we would classify as moral is because of some obligation as opposed to some internal desire to do so? I ask because we have a name for people who in most situations do not have a desire to behave in a manner we would term 'good'. Also the video isn't about moral nihilism but existential nihilism (life is without purpose, not moral obligations do not exist).

[MsAlexisTo]

It is arguable that the universe is devoid of inherent meaning however we as human beings find meaning in everyday things that we observe with the senses that "God" gave to us and so since this meaning exists in us and in our minds it also exists in the universe. Emotions being just biochemical reactions? our emotions guide our moral compasses people that have a conscience when they hurt people they feel guilt the primary emotion to that is sadness which is an undesirable emotion when we

[MsAlexisTo]

do things that we deem are not "good" most people will experience a negative emotion related to that action. If a Nihilist wants to argue with me that good and evil do not exist, I would ask him what those words meant, and since we have given them a meaning it does exist in the here and now. I know people who are almost devoid of emotion save the most easily summoned one the occasional rare angry outburst but for some reason they always do the right thing. Good and evil exists in people.

[nanoduckling]

@MsAlexisTo The tooth fairy has a meaning, it does not exist. For the purposes of this discussion I would define a good act as one that one should do and an evil one as one should not do. As I have defined them I assert good and evil do not exist. That we think obligations exist no more makes them real than people thinking god or ghosts exists makes them real.

[MsAlexisTo]

The tooth fairy is something that we have knowingly fabricated, and we can all agree that it exists only in our minds by your definition of what exists is that we must be able to see it?? Than by your definition things like freedom, good, evil, wrong and right don't exist? Give your head a shake buddy and study history and see for yourself the effects of good and evil throughout history performed by men and woman and how it has affected us today.

[nanoduckling]

@MsAlexisTo You are confusing material existence with being encoded in our brains. I don't deny people have conceptions of good, evil, freedom etc. I just don't think those things exist beyond those encodings (which are material arrangements of connections between neurons). Why do you think they need to exist in the same sense as material to be important? We all agree poems don't exist outside of this sense of being encoded in minds, yet you would not act as if this is a big deal.

[MsAlexisTo]

@nanoduckling I never said that concepts like good and evil, have to manifiest themselves materially to be important you said that No point in furthering this debate if you start quoting me as saying things that I did'nt you fool. Encodings in our brain? that is an interesting way to describe good and evil, so some people have the encoding and others do not? I don't know what your point in disscussing this with me is but I know regard you as buffon I will no longer engage you in this halfwit!

[nanoduckling]

@MsAlexisTo That reply was impressively sophomoric, I commend you for neither addressing my points nor attempting to clarify your position and instead resorting to ad hominem.

[MsAlexisTo]

@nanoduckling i did address your points Good and evil exists, the reason why I am so admant about debating about this is because evil people justify their actions by using philosphies exactly like the one here that you believe in. It is allowed to exist because people allow themselves to succumb to it, short of redefining the words I don't know how else it could not. I am impressed by your vocabulary ( I had to look up ad hominem) Happy? Now be gone fool!.

[nanoduckling]

@MsAlexisTo If you are so adamant that evil and good exist please go ahead and provide the outline for an ontology of it. Most evil people justify their acts by trying to assert that they are good not by musing on the existence of normativity. You and I agree there are actions and things in this universe we both find very unpleasant and have a desire to stop them, what difference does it make if I don't believe that my preferences represent a prescription for others?

[MsAlexisTo]

@nanoduckling Ummmm you want me to give an entire onology for it? Why don't you read my last 5 comments that i posted I think I answered the required fundamental questions and expressed my opinon on the matter. You want to start discussing metaphysics, and normativity? I am not going to write your philosphy paper for you do it yourself, and you are overcomplicating an otherwise simple discussion here. Not replying to your comments any more for realz this time Nanodork..

[nanoduckling]

@MsAlexisTo Then I shall leave you wit this in parting. You have over the course of this discussion mistook existential nihilism for moral nihilism. Your points have been poorly thought out and overly emotive. What really amuses me is that in a video which you have mistaken as being about moral nihilism you don't want to debate normativity. I look forward to discussions on music where we don't discuss notes and baseball where talking about bats 'overcomplicates' matters.

[MsAlexisTo]

@nanoduckling I'll leave you wih this. you are taking my criticism of this video rather personally, you would'nt happen to be the absurd hero are you? lol

[dormirenonpotest]

one may also recognize that although one's self is without value, if one recognizes that he/she is the only existing conciousness, one may as well live to please their own conciousness.

[Shutaisei]

I got All Camus Books! He was Extremely good.

[wize11]

enlightaning

[treid100182]

not bad - well said.

[tommorellorules]

haha I like the dr who music at the end

[brown0eyed0cat]

This is actually quite interesting. I resent being called a coward for believing in the supernatural and (perhaps) not being able to face the fact that we are irrelevant and that the universe is a big, unfeeling, sub-zero blob, but then again, not really believing in the standard definition of christianity I find all these different explanations and ideas fascinating.

[ShowtekGER]

i don't think i like camus. if you have to create meaning yourself how can possibly anything exist that is "cowardly" or a "philosophical death". that's completely illogical.

[o0Kensh1n0o]

I find it funny that you call yourself a nihilist yet you accept things as universal truths. Such in your statement below "Even if we hate it, that is true.". In nihilism there is no truth.

[Tyorant]

Your explanation is anything but rational. The two options we have are to develop our own meaning to our lives, or accept futility and end ourselves.

To impose any sort of personality on the cosmos and say "Fuck you." is no more useful than to blame a coffee table for stumping your toe. It's a method of arrogant control that is not founded in logic or reason.

I only agree with you with this: We may have no innate purpose, but we create our own.

[killzstuff]

i did not see a stanic symbol in the religoin signs. as a satanist i beleive it is more powerful and more important than all other.

[JOSFERATU]

That was a reply to Steve2323ZX's post btw :p

[sleeplessmind]

yeah...fuck you cosmos!

[Steve2323ZX]

my problem with camus's absurdism is that anything goes as long as that person has a strong passion for doing it.

sorry camus but absurdism fails in that if everyone were to try to implement it, we would end up living in a world where people could do whatever the hell they wanted and I do mean anything.

What does an absurdist say to a person who has a passion for setting things on fire because he thinks seeing things burn is beautiful?

[JOSFERATU]

If everybody would do whatever they felt like, it probably would lead to the fall of mankind. But that has nothing to do with this, nihilism is just a truth, it is not some kind of social system. That means that it is not something that can fail. People that interpret it in a certain way could potentially fail, but not the philosophy itself, since it is the truth. So I agree with you on it not being a good idea to do whatever you want, but I say that it does not matter if we would do it ;)

[Steve2323ZX]

Yes that was my point to the person who posted the video, TheAbsurdHero.

As an atheist I struggle to find meaning and I lack a framework in how I should live and how others should live.

Absurdism and existentialism try to answer these issues with the notion that each person is responsible to find their own meaning for their existence. Unfortunately this notion is to most people lacking and problematic.

[MultiSagitta]

It got kind of crazy at 3:00. But i'll finish it.

[TJAE420]

but absurd hero he was right camus was against nihilism

[TJAE420]

but pugnaciousboxer2 ur wrong fer one part Peter Wessel Zapffe was not a nihilst he like to call his way of thought biosophy

[TJAE420]

very good argument u two

[rockman22]

I never quite put religion into those words. Religion is philosophical suicide, genius. Thank you, will be using that in conversations henceforth!!!

[beph13]

urgg!

i cant get all these philosophies straight.

I just got down the idea of Nihilism and now im learning there is different types of nihilism, absurdism, solipsism, etc.

im so confused, but im really interested.

[TheAbsurdHero]

Fair enough. It's very late here and I'm tired and going to sleep now.

[derekjanet]

@TheAbsurdHero

The trouble with this view of choosing to commit suicide is that one has to be mature and old enough, to chose to make such a decision. How do you answer the question, I really wish that I'd not been born? There is nothing that I can do about that. Killing oneself is only one way shorting ones choice-less life before natural death or some other form of life kills you. Why bother being a hero if it's only temporary?

[pugnaciousboxer2]

I have attached a video that actually captures Camus' philosophy unadulterated. You should edit this video due to the amount of fallacies. Camus' entire philosophical system was devised as a way to overcome nihilism. Absurdism does have many similarities with nihilism, but categorizing them as the same is ludicrous.

[TheAbsurdHero]

Ok, wow did you miss the point of the vid. As I point out early on, there are many kinds of nihilism, and I admit to a very particular and limited facet pertaining SOLELY to inherent meaning in the cosmos, or rather its absence, as did Camus. Like atheism, it is a STARTING point of non-belief, from which one must begin to construct what one actually DOES believe.

While I start with a minute bit of nihilism, everything afterwards IS Camus' Absurdism. And while I never specifically used

[TheAbsurdHero]

(cont) that term, it is clearly what I was describing towards the end (you know, the part where I completely embrace REVOLT, FREEDOM, and PASSION?)

I was illustrating Camus' RESPONSE to the specific type of nihilism, that response being Absurdism; I certainly never claimed they are one in the same.

I'm not sure where these "fallacies" you mention occur, but just ease up on the labels, dude. They're not that important.

[pugnaciousboxer2]

You can't be a nihilist while embracing those 3 virtues.

[pugnaciousboxer2]

Once you embrace those 3 virtues you cease to be nihilist. Calling yourself a nihilist and absurd hero is a contradiction, don't you understand? Someone who embraces those 3 ideals, thus being an absurd man, cannot be a nihilist...

[pugnaciousboxer2]

Listen, Camus' ENTIRE philosophy was devoted to refuting nihilism; to finding a way to overcoming it. If you read some of his interviews, he expresses a huge contempt towards nihilism. HECK, he even insulted Schopenhauer who is agreed, by reputable scholars, to be a nihilist. I don't understand how you can group an absurd man and existential attitude with nihilism; it goes completely against it.

[TheAbsurdHero]

Alright, I'll break it down even more: I say "I am a nihilist of a particular stripe" and liken the view to Camus'. I then go on to define that particular stripe as "there [being] no INHERENT meaning or value in the universe," which Camus ALSO thought (or, at least, no meaning that we can know of - and, yes, I probably should have included that qualifier but didn't, as it wasn't related to the POINT OF THE VIDEO).

When I use the term 'nihilism' I am NOT REFERRING TO ANY PHILOSOPHICAL MOVEMENT

[TheAbsurdHero]

(cont) OR DOCTRINE. I am merely using it to describe my (AND CAMUS') attitude on intrinsic meaning within the cosmos. We are both NIHILISTIC about its existence (in other words: we don't think it IS), just as we are both NIHILISTIC about the existence of god(s).

After acknowledging there is no intrinsic meaning, LIKE CAMUS DID, I set off to explain how we may OVERCOME THAT FACT by way of Absurdism.

If successful, one finds meaning via revolt, freedom, and passion; but one STILL ACKNOWLEDGES

[TheAbsurdHero]

(cont) THERE IS NO INTRINSIC MEANING WE KNOW OF. This makes one a type of EXISTENTIAL NIHILIST, LIKE CAMUS.

To put it another way, when I say there's insufficient reason to believe in a god, that means I'm an atheist. If I go on to find my own purpose and become, say an Objectivist or Absurdist, I am STILL AN ATHEIST.

If you believe there is no intrinsic meaning in the universe (like me and Camus), you're a nihilist of ONE SORT.

Again: stop getting so hung up on labels.

[pugnaciousboxer2]

You're getting into semantics. Stating you're a nihilist gives the mental images of Schopenhauer and Peter Wessel Zapffe and not Camus who openly insulted nihilism and called Schopenhauer a fool. Still, II can understand how absurdism STARTS from nihilism... but that doesn't mean it is a particular brand.

[pugnaciousboxer2]

Scroll down and read "Relationship with existentialism and nihilism". Go to Wikipedia ----> Absurdism ----> scroll down. Hate Youtube for not allowing. Anyways, I hate using Wikipedia for credible information, but I can vouch for this tid-bit of information. I apologize if I came off as rude, but hey, at least you got more vieeeews!

[pugnaciousboxer2]

Oh... so you're an absurdist. Absurdism recognizes that IF there is an objective meaning in the universe, man cannot truly know it. Instead, absurdism emphasizes on man's own meaning regardless of its meaninglessness on a cosmic scale. It's more similar to existentialism in that sense. Granted, I understand where you're coming from, but you're not "a nihilist of a particular stripe". A nihilist of any particular stripe doesn't finds any meaning in revolt.

[TheAbsurdHero]

Yes I am getting into semantics, because I choose my words carefully and specifically. Perhaps stating that I'm a nihilist might initially give an incorrect impression, which is why I go on to explain exactly what I mean.

And I can vouch for this: go to Wikipedia ------> nihilism --------> existential nihilism. That's what I think, that's what Camus thought, ergo, we are nihilists in THAT REGARD, EVEN if we HATE THAT IT IS TRUE. Schopenhauer, et al. may be Nihilists through and through, but

[TheAbsurdHero]

(cont) it's irrelevant, because there's more than one definition or classification to a word sometimes. Like now.

Camus was a nihilist in that he believed nihilistic existentialism is correct; he then goes on to revolt against it. Absurdity abounds.

[pugnaciousboxer2]

I understand now... We basically said the same thing but through the use of different terminology... You make good sense, now. Well, at least, we got that cleared out of the way for future posters.

[pugnaciousboxer2]

Read some of Camus' essays and you'd recognize he absolutely hates nihilism. - That's my last post. I wish Youtube could allow edits. :(

[pugnaciousboxer2]

A nihilist on the other hand, would consider Camus' propositions to deal with the absurd (i.g., freedom, revolt, and passion) meaningless. Camus states we should try to find meaning in this meaningless universe while acknowledging it is meaningless. It is essentially the existential attitude, that Sartre agree with. Absurdism is more similar to existentialism then. Nihilism is more in the realm of Schopenhaur and Zapffe. They give no "hope".

[pugnaciousboxer2]

A nihilist considers suicide meaningless while Camus states the purpose of life is lived experience. He states we should live with the outmost passion with the self-consciousness of the absurd (the confrontation of man's yearning for unity). A nihilist would just sign at the concept of suicide and move on; an absurdist would consider suicide ridiculous. In the The Plague Camus shows that the absurd is a human conflict and we should deal with it in solidarity.

[pugnaciousboxer2]

You're more of an absurdist rather than a nihilist. If you want a real nihilist, then check out Peter Wessel who states man has an overabundance of sentience, that is unneeded. Camus' entire philosophy is aimed at destroying nihilism.

[renumeratedfrog]

The last part (i.e. Universe is beautiful and all that crap) was worthy of a true nihilist. It's more a comment of someone who's an existentialist, or perhaps even a pantheist.

[Anihilist]

Atheism is a joke so is theism. Everything in general is a joke so sit back relax and enjoy the joke.

[InSanctvs]

I have been a nihilist for quite some time now, and every time I "come out of the closet" people react very strongly at the fact that I don't think that there exist any objective morals or ethics. When somebody then asks "what would you feel if someone just hurt you for no reason" I reply that I would not like it, because I am human and therefore dislike pain or the feeling of being uncomfortable, but this does not make any one action any more immoral or "wrong" - objectively of course.

[capriciousdelicious]

Is there any meaningful difference between "objective morals" and personal preferences regarding matters of morality? If so, what are those differences?

[Anihilist]

Oh really?

[UcanbeGOD]

I have gotten the suicide question before.

I'm just not that emo about it.

What?! You mean someone hasn't handed down and prescribed rules, meaning purpose to my life? Oh noes!!

Meh.

[Nihilist127]

I hate getting that question "why don't you kill yourself?"

[TheAbsurdHero]

I suspect, quite sincerely, the people who ask that are projecting their own anxieties about life. That especially applies to the religious (after all, if you believe you have an eternity in paradise after you die, this life become utterly insignificant). So I would as them the same question, if heaven awaits, why not kills YOURself to get there quicker? (Unless suicide is a sin, in which case, why not deny all medical treatment, or work a very dangerous job?)