The situation is worse than you think! The truth is she never actually wears clothes - her black outfit is actually entirely made of her magical hair, so when she needs to use her hair for something else... it can't cover her body at the same time.
Fuck the haters; this video is great. Unfortunitly, we live in a society were people like to plug their fingers in their ears, shut their eyes and pretend that the problem does not exist or that 'us women folks gets too angry about things not for us'.
I can only guess that these dislikes came from fanboys of the game who thought this was going to be another video praising it or showing off the 'hawtness' of it.
Keep making the videos. We need something with intelligence here.
I'd just like to say - while it may not be representative overall- that I don't know any guys who've played this game, only girls, and both of them really enjoyed it. I wonder if that's because there are so few games with female protagonists to play, that even finding a game like Bayonetta is good enough. OR and I'm saying this very cautiously, maybe some girls want to roleplay at being hyper-sexual, violent and powerful? I don't know the answer, but I thought it was interesting.
- I mean, the game (PDZ) is a fps, you can't even look at her while you play. The only male characters are either a romantic foil who exists only to compliment the main character, ugly old villains, and a father figure who is weak and quickly surpassed. (If you think about it, this is an exact role reversal from standard shooter games.) Even the equipment itself toys with it's gender roles. The hacking device is shaped like a makeup-case. Like Joanna, you can't judge it by it's shape.
If you want a really good example of a video game where a female character fights and isn't constantly posing for the viewer in an exploitive way, look at perfect dark zero. It's a TERRIBLE game as far as story and gameplay are concerned, especially compared to Bayonetta, which I think is why you got so many dislikes, but it really nails the gender issue. The character is female and identifies as female, but she isn't doing anything for the sexual benefit of men (real life ones or in game)
I don't have a problem with sexy women in video games, I'm a gamer girl who likes playing with sexy male characters, thats not sexist. But the male characters never do provakative poses, and that subway thing is SICK.
How about Final Fantasy X-2 where the three main female characters fight in skimpy outfits and get their powers from what clothing they wear?
(FFX-2 is a brilliant game story-wise, but seriously, did Rikku really have to run around in a bikini and do they really need a wardrobe change to make Paine use a gun or to use Yuna's white-mage abilities from FFX?!)
@sailorstar165 lol i hear the game makes guys uncomfortable just as much as girls who play it. basically, neither feel like they are the intended audience of the game. to guys, the game is too "girly." it has the jpop and the dressing up, and the singing. and of course to girls, it seems like it's just fanservice for guys. honestly, the game was just plain BAD to me lol.
What's really interesting is the number of "dislikes". Mostly adolescent guys who like their porn I suppose.
But don't you get just how insulting such games are to women AND men? To women, it's the obvious: your only form of power is sex, accept to be a whore and all will be fine. To men: you are a perverted slob with a penis for brains, admit it. So go and be the rapist you are deep down.
How can anybody not see these subliminal messages?
Something you also doesn't point out: We create separate cars to protect women. We do not educate men that women shouldn't need to be protected, because men shouldn't be behaving in this manner.
What the hell is up with all the dislikes? What, is sexual harassment that easy of an issue to shrug off now? Have we gotten to the point in which we value a fucking video game over the rapey ad campaigns placed in public spaces where such harassment occurs?
I consider myself a feminist, but I also play video games, and I know this game is extremely sexist to the degree that it's almost funny but I love this game so much... haha I know I know, don't judge me.
I'm a woman, and I will always think that Princess Peach is a more sexist character than Bayonetta. If you actually played the game instead of just watched the advertising, you'd note that Bayonetta kicks ass the entire game and every man in that game is completely incompetent in comparison to her and the other female lead, Jeanne in your positives. Bayonetta may be sexy and may be a tease, but she doesn't need a mans help; nor does she want it, in contrast every other girl character who need it
It is a bit disturbing how women are objectified everywhere!! I think some people think she's saying women shouldn't dress like 'sluts', which would be sexist, when she's talking about the media encouraging or condoning or something men to respond to women dressing like 'sluts' or just being women :(:(:(
I definitely see this as a problem. in the rare chance that you get a female protaganist they're almost always hypersexualized and usually fall into this awkwardly flat archetype of "im female, but i'm a badass, too!" personally, i'd really like to see games become more mainstream, but all these sexualized images are probably very alienating toward women.
Well I consider it a step up from what I see in TV or Movies. in romatic movies, women seem to be incapable of functioning without a man's help like the lead in a certain vampire series. If you look at tv shows like desperate housewives and shit like that, their portrait as whores who treat men as nothing but ATM machines and occationally suck their cocks as thanks. Maybe she has a ridiculous outfit, but really is this no better than was it shown in the media for women?
Bayonetta is INSANELY misogynistic honestly she makes Lara Croft look like a positive depiction, she doesn't even have a personality. Attempt to describe her without mentioning her actions, history, or appearance. There's nothing there.
Wow, thank you for that bit at the end. It's really amazing how society creates and supports the sexual harassment culture that we then try to thwart. Why not look at the cause instead of the result? WHY would men think that this is acceptable behavior by any standard of decency? Because that's clearly what they've been told.
@duckiesgoqu4ck The advertising is the real issue. Many men do not think it is acceptable behaviour (I certainly don't), but there's a tendency to encourage it in the media and in the "lad culture", which in turn through peer pressure (men who don't fit in are branded nerds, in many cases a "geek" is a male who does not behave like a jock) makes it seem normal to some men. Women sexually harass men as well but its less commonplace because there's not a peer pressure mechanism to encourage it.
The subway poster which invites participation - in a sort of pantomimed sexual assault - is horrid. However, the technique is brilliant when used for other purposes. For example, there was a public awareness campaign in Turkey which involved a poster with a woman's arm extended in such a way that passersby felt encouraged to interact with it. Eventually, her hand would be destroyed from people striking it, etc. Underneath was a message "stop the violence against women". I can't find the ad now.
I hate the people that think Japan has such a beautiful culture and idolize it. How can they be so ignorant? Japan is one of the most sexist modern countries.
@00GreyEyedGirl00 I have to somewhat agree with this. I think Japanese culture, much like the cultures of other countries around the world, is in fact beautiful. But it is also no less sexist than other countries. Yet much like other Westernized countries, people dismiss or ignore that while regions like the Middle East are lambasted constantly for sexism. Japan should, just like North America and Europe, deserve no less criticism for their sexism.
bayonetta wasn't even a good game. It was just Devil May Cry (which is a game made by the exact same company that made Bayonetta), just with an overly eroticized female protagonist. I liked how she had sass and a personality, but besides that, the game was just one huge repetitive soft-core porno. Not really what I look for in games tbh.
@RainmanStudios More like a shittier version of DMC2, except all of your moves being replaced with God of War type flowchart combos (which probably served as his inspiration considering he hasn't made an action game in 10 years so he's forced to rip off someone else's idea) because he's mad he got fired from Capcom and doesn't own the rights to his old franchise and can't move on without a replacement for it.
@RainmanStudios "bayonetta wasn't even a good game. It was just Devil May Cry"
Except that in itself MAKES it a good game. The first Devil May Cry revitalized the dying action game genre and is rightfully regarded as a classic. Bayonetta takes the Devil May Cry formula and refines it to near-perfection, including the revolutionary ability to continue your combo right where you left after dodging an attack, not to mention the bullet-time triggered by a perfect dodge. This was previously unseen.
@RainmanStudios Capcom published Devil May Cry, Sega (now a pathetic shadow of their former greatness, alas, so hardly surprising their marketing is desperate) published Bayonetta. Platinum Games, the developer, are indeed the same people (Clover) who made DMC. Bayonetta is basically a crude mixture of two Capcom icons; Dante and Morrigan. Bayonetta is funny but lacks the charm of those two iconic characters.
We get Bayo instead of Skies of Arcadia 2 and Shenmue 3. :(
I think you're perhaps view points may be getting in the way of this game. I detest sex being used as a selling point, but once you get past that part, Bayonetta is quite an amazingly stylish game. I did not play the game from a typical male viewpoint, seeing her as a sexy ass kicker, but as an overly intelligent highly self aware seductress. I see exactly where you're coming from though. It's hard to look past the obviously sexist selling point but once you do I think this game can be amazing.
What's hilarious is, the creator got very offended about people on the internet sexualisating his work. He wrote a gigantic blog post about how he was trying to make a statement about female empowerment and sexual liberation.
@polymphus That is totally absurd, if he *really* was trying to go for female empowerment (which I seriously doubt), he should of consulted some folks who engage with, think about and envision female empowerment regularly, because he failed massively.
@feministfrequency Of course it is. To date I've never been able to figure out whether it was massive ass-covering or whether he actually believes that. To date, I've never been able to figure out which would be worse.
it's insulting to men as well because it assumes this is all we want in our entertainment. The developer said in an interview that he was trying to create a female character that has complete control over her sexuality and can dominate men as a distinctly feminine entity (without resorting to masculinity to dominate), but that's not really what comes through when you take a look at the cover art.
this is my favourite video of yours. :) I'm going to be doing an essay at university on Bayonetta, partly because i've been inspired by your take on it. The irony is, i've heard that(as a game) it's pretty good. it's a shame that combining great gameplay with inoffensive representations of gender seems to be such a difficult thing for game developers to get their heads around! not that that's always the case, of course...
I'm a male gamer, but I find these kinds of games very insulting to women and they piss me off. However, I find it also upsetting you listed "Single Mom", as a positive, as if raising a child without the benefit of the father around is actually a good thing. It's not.
I appreciate it's hard to fight sexism without appearing sexist yourself, however.
@RikkWolf When I list single mom as a positive it is not because being a single mom in and of itself is positive but rather that representing the reality of women's situation, in which many are single mothers is fairly rare to see in the media. It is incredibly difficult and these mothers are not given the respect and support they deserve. And to your last point I am not sexist, and to even make that claim means you have a very limited understanding of what sexism actually is.
Single mothers in the media are rare? It's quite saturated. Strong male figures that don't take off on mother and child are rare.
I never accused you of actually BEING sexist, I merely made the point it is easy to appear sexist in combating sexism. Although I will now say your derogatory attitude doesn't help your cause, and as a man that's actually been forced file a sexual harassment claim against a VERY sexist company, I know more than my share about sexism, thanks.
@RikkWolf It sounded as though you were insinuating that I was being sexist, hence the defensiveness. Sexism isn't just about anyone not like/being mean/being bigoted towards someone of the opposite sex, it is about power. And socially men have power in our society whether they individually feel like it or not. Therefore to even allude to me being sexist is inaccurate. And as a side note, I am very concerned about representations of men and masculinity in the media.
@RikkWolf she didn't mention anything even remotely sexist. In fact, you were the one being sexist by saying being a single mom acquaints to basically nothing and doesn't make a woman any better than she already is. Clearly you have no idea how hard it is to be a single mother.
"..it's hard to fight sexism without appearing sexist yourself, however. "
there you directly implied she was being sexist. So I don't understand why you claim you weren't accusing her of that.
Not to mention, what she said about single mothers in the media was true. Besides crime dramas, where do you see believable female characters who are also single moms?
are you also saying you were a victim of sexism? as a man? now that's something you don't hear everyday.
@RainmanStudios Men love to shut feminists up by telling them that "Men suffer too! We have it just as bad as them, maybe worse!". Well, statistics and the status quo say differently, but ok. They are so blinded by their own privilege that it is unreal, with ad hominem attacks and personal anecdotes serving as their "logic". Really, they just don't want feminists to succeed in eliminating male privilege because they KNOW it benefits them. Oi vey.
Why do you present that sexy female characters in video games and/or posters (or any public media for that matter) are encouraging sexual harassment as if it is a fact?
Last week I took BART to and from Berkeley. On the way home, the trains were really packed. You could see that most women sat and stood in the same area of the car and that the women who were near men looked almost afraid.
It was horrible.
And nearly every advert that I saw sexualised women.
This wouldn't bother me if there were female oriented equivalents (But there aren't, of course, because, you know, sex is something only guys want to see).
It's unfortunate that society one big enabler that encourages all men to be ass-grabbing perverts while at the same time sexually repressing actual girls and women.
@SabreXT I don't think it's done to please women, i might argue that it's done as a representation of what the game producers assume the men aspire to look like.
Wow. Thanks for these really informative videos. I had no idea about the groping issues in Japanese subways (and I lived in New York, so I know it happens there - not from personal experience; I'm a guy). It's great that you connected that issue with the video game.
The Bechdel Test doesn't gauge whether it's feminist, but it can gauge whether women are invisible. In games, female characters often play a silent, rescuable or backup role, and that wasn't the case here. Yeah, maybe agency is the wrong word here- I guess I mean that the female characters actually advance the plot- without being there just for the sake of the male characters (for the sake of the adolescent fantasies though... yep. Still misogynistic).
@umeblossoms The Bechdel Test doesn't gauge whether a text is feminist or not. I also find it difficult to talk about agency in terms of video game characters, especially those that were created as a male fantasy (no matter how campy it might be).
Wrong; to assume that everyone in JAPAN thinks and looks positively on these sort of things is wrong and just one huge generalization for the entire nation. They know what they're making but it doesn't make it any more excusable. The fact that people can sweep it under the rub and shrug it off as 'Oh, its JAPAN.' just shows how desensitized people have gotten towards certain aspects in culture, especially gaming culture.
"Overly sexualized adolescent male fantasy" pretty much hit the nail on the head. I'm a gamer and when I saw you were taking umbrage against something which so self consciously wants to court your indignation.. well.. I rolled my eyes at first. However, your review was insightful and even pointed out elements I had missed in my passing familiarity with the title (never owned it). Character limits prevent commentary on the subway element of the review but I found that insightful as well.
Thank you for addressing the Japanese "subway groping" phenomenon in addition to the Bayonetta poster. Interesting and important correlation & really shows how much thought and research you put into your topics. Keep up the great work.
As a male gamer, I can see where you're coming from with the whole Bayonetta situation. I for one, fine the over-sexualization quite tasteless, the game itself was average, entertaining at best. Forgive me if i don't quite understand where you're coming from with the video, Were you just using Bayonetta's advertisement scheme as an example of the boundries people have crossed when portraying women, or was it a implication of gaming having an effect on people? Thank you for your time :)
Again, excellent points. However, did I get that right that you are for voluntary segregation on trains? I hope not because that would mean just accepting the misogyny. What signal would this send to women? "Meh, men are men, you know, put up with it! If you don't wanna be harrassed you can still wear, uh, a large black sack or, um, use your own train cars!" Honestly: Should we really give in to the perverts and force women to segregate themselves?
@feministfrequency I'm sorry, but wouldn't making special women only carts kind of hurt the feminist cause, which is, you know, equality and the two sexes living together in harmony and so on?
@feministfrequency I never claimed to have a solution, because I don't believe there is an imidiate remedy to sexism (not saying that there isn't one, just that it's not something we can rid ourselves with within a few decades). We can't do much more than to educate the masses, because the problem lies within individuals and the media. You can't force a temporary solution like seperating the troublemakers from the victims and expect to get constructive results.
@feministfrequency One also needs to keep in mind the somewhat misogynist culture of Japan, ofcourse the problem is a big(ger) one there. I personally think the western world has done some serious improvements over the generations, and more is to come no doubt.
Randomly got linked from another site. Saw some comments about the name Bayonetta and the bayonette weapon. Just wanted to point out that "Bayonetta" was also apparently the name of the original "younger women" tribe in the 12th season of the show Survivor. Didn't read into that any deeper. Also that giant vacuum boss thing looks awesome. Never played this game but that boss looks awesome. I agree about the excessive sexual stuff being stupid but target demographics are what they are...
Interesting--it's hard to argue against he objectification of the train adds. For the game itself, the only argument that didn't click my misogyny sensors (which, admittedly, are poor) is the Gamer Overthinker, which saw Bayonetta not as sexualized--but as sexually intimidating. The area of debate is how much of it is voyuerism and how much it is an at-command performance (if it can be called that).
GOOD ARGUMENT! :D (but she's not a single mom. :P I'd be spoiling stuff if I go into depth.) I never thought of it like that. I'm a girl, and sure, I was a bit offended but it's just a video game, right? And also to the80'skickasswhateverwhaccamacalit: I know a whole group of girls who play video games! To tell you the truth, we (the group) enjoy storylined games rather then puzzles and stuff. Shooting stuff up for no reason? Naw, not too into that.
@ChikenMuffinz "I'm a girl, and sure, I was a bit offended but it's just a video game, right?". No, not just.
Any media is capable of broadcasting information and messages. The content of those messages are equally liable to scrutiny, be they plays, movies, books, or even "just" games.
They are all produced by human beings and as such, they all carry human intents.
Also the plain fact that she is called Bayonetta, a bayonette is an accessory to the gun itself. If the gun is a representation of the entertainment value and draw of the game, then the title character is ironically of little worth or importance. I'm probably just reiterating what has already been said but it's crazy what passes for entertainment and how we so willingly buy into it.
I dont think the bayonette (or bayoneta as we said in spanish) has no or little importance in a weapon, I think when I used the bayoneta in a sand bag, it was really scary, so I think Its a really serious weapon and it makes the fight more personal and a discusting experience for a soldier to use this weapon.
@evilhippo5 I think the difference between comparing the women only trains to the segregated south is that the current trains are optional. Providing women the option for a safer space is not rooted in a prejudice where segregation in the south was just out right racism.
@feministfrequency I made that comparison prefaced "If you make it half the train". I understand that this is practice in certain Indian cities, where there is compulsory segregation of sexes of trains.
On the other hand, if you make it a minority optional provision of 1-2 cars, you firstly imply women are a minority of those mobile, and, as a later comment that was not approved said, you make the other carriages more male-dominated, likely worsening conditions for the remainder of women.
Very good coverage of something that, frankly, made me feel physically sick when I saw it. However, I shall pick up on one point.
Having developed into a feminist (among other things) geographer with transport planning pretensions over the past three years of my bachelors degree, I have to say that I become more and more opposed to women-only carriages in public transport, and I shall summarise the reasons why.
Agree with you, for the most part, about the game.
That said, did you really suggest that American public transit would be improved by having "separate but equal" subway cars for women? If a male politician suggested that, I believe you would find that idea incredibly insulting.
I don't agree with a lot of your points, but I do believe that your heart is in the right place when you make these videos, so count me in as a subscriber.
@daniel154 I would not find it insulting if a male politician suggested optional separate women only subway cars, but they would never say that because male politicians are rarely looking out for women's safety.
This is a great video. At first I thought it was regrettable but forgivable until you brought up the ad campaign they carried out in the subway. It saddens me to think that as technology advances we create new ways to degrade women. There are even porns that fetishize molestation and rape in subway stations.
My only complaint with this video is the audio quality. Its kind of hard to hear you. What kind of microphone are you using?
That ad is not encouraging anything but people to buy the game. I'm sorry but this is an irrational response to a problem I agree is an issue, violation,but blaming a game the majority of people don't even know about or have played is laughable.
People have tried to sensor games, music, movies, and reading material for years, and it all comes down to the right producers have to make whatever product they want. I can understand some people don't like the game, that's okay, don't play it. However I've heard this rhetoric before from a lot of feminists who would rather remove all imagery their opinions find obscene, rather than allow people the freedom to create them.
@feministfrequency You say it's oppressive, that's your opinion. What is your solution? I can agree with you that she is a laughable one-dimensional character, included only because of her physical appearance. I can agree that video games lack deep real female characters. But it goes both ways. Games lack dimensional male characters too. But that is not because of a patriarchal system or oppression. It's because games are made by and for gamers (mostly men), who have preconceptions of gender.
@Dirge987 so can't games be made by and for gamers including female gamers? Also, the gaming community should be concerned about how alienating the games and the communities are to women who would want to be apart of it.
@feministfrequency I couldn't agree more. For every game with literary subtext or complex characters, there are fistfuls of cut and paste shooters or fighters who's protagonist is the action hero stereotype. The industry has problems, and I agree with your criticisms. The problem is women don't want to play games because they're not woman friendly, and they're not woman friendly because women don't play games. In the end change has to come from consumers because developers won't take the chance.
@feministfrequency Most women don't like video games. there is a stigma against it in the female social circles. When more women play video games, more games will be made for them. The games that women usually play are not story driven games (God of War) but more strategy game (Bejeweled). Women aren't really drawn to violence which is what most gameplay is now days. so the only company making games for women too is Nintendo. Sex and violence sell, and money is the bottom line.
@The80sKickAss Your statement about the types of games women play is totally wrong and there is lots of research done to disqualify the gendered argument you are making.
@Dirge987 I would argue that the existence of games with this kind of inherent patriarchal structure reflects perceptions in our society about women in general. If there were not sexually possessive perceptions of women in society, games like this would not be created. The imagery reflects popular opinion, which is why it is so sickening.
@definenothing Your statement is indicative of a western central mindset. The game is made in a country that has a completely different history and view of sex. We cannot make generalizations on our society based on their culture. We may see it as degrading, while they may see it as empowering. You state popular opinion, but it is only your perception of American popular opinion, and is in no way relevant to Japanese culture in which the game was produced.
@Dirge987 Although I would normally agree with your statement, patriarchy is clearly a HUGE problem in Japan as well, and the implementation of women only cars is just one indicator of that.
leather? not quite..if you read up on the game you'd know it's her hair.
Also Sexual attraction is a natural emotion we all carry it's how we view it that truly leads us to do good or bad behavior...video games are a entertainment format that does not pushing us single handily into a category of good or bad behavior.
Japan is a strange place: they've never had a puritanical political or social inflluence that I'm am aware of, and because of that, they approach sex and sexuality differently than other societies do. Not an excuse for the ad campaign, but it would explain why it's less of a big deal there than here. Women are taught that it's less shameful to ignoreharassmentthan to react to it. Sorry, but if some guy on a train is grabbing my ass, he's getting an elbow to his solar plexus.
Bayonetta is also a very knowingly camp and OTT game. Which doesn't excuse it, per se, but it does make it come across a little differently. It's supposed to be really good and I love game with kickass women so I was considering getting it but after hearing about this advertising campaign... I think I'll pass.
Consider playing the game and understanding the story before passing certain judgments. I'm not quite sure how you can find a heroine as progressive as Bayonetta to be "damaging" to women. Unlike most female characters in video games, Bayonetta is not another one of those sluts who is nothing more than eye candy. As a character, she is a frighteningly strong woman who, despite being sexy, is clearly not in it or anyone for herself. Actually give the game shot, you just might enjoy it...
I'd just like to point out that this game is laughed at by nerds as well for being so hypersexualized. I mean, everything from her glasses to BDSM-style attacks are fetishized. The ad campaigns were ridiculous, and its precisely for the fact that it has nothing but sex appeal that this game quickly faded to obscurity (I think it came out in January?).
It's also sad that those countries even NEED those cars, because from what I gather, those countries haven't done much to discourage the behavior. Japan still makes ads like the Bayonetta one, shames women for being groped and raped, and generally continues with their misogynistic views of women.
(one final note unrelated to the content.. the audio was a bit low and I had to turn the volume way up to hear the commentary.)
It's good to finally see someone actually talking about how Bayonetta is HURTING women. So many people want to praise the game as "empowering" or "simple sillyness" and buy the game (and these people are women themselves a few calling themselves feminists).
I was very excited when Bayonetta was first announced, because it was being developed by a company I had my eye on. However, the more I saw of the game, the less I was interested. I didn't buy the game because it did look like a cheap excuse for porn. The ad campaign was both innovative and incredibly sexist at the same time (you can be both). If she hadn't been naked underneath, then it would have been a cool participatory ad. However, sex sells.
The justification for the nudity is that her outfit is actually made from her hair, so when the hair is being used for attacking it isn't available for the more mundane task of clothing her.
Not that that's a legitimate excuse, but that's the explanation.
Feministfrequency, you look a little like the character in Bayonetta.. strange coincidence! haha.. jokes aside, you're making good points about this game.. its nothing more than a simplistic and sexist game. And the increasing cases of sexual harassment is unsettling.
I really like the way you look at the world and are able to deduce why and how these behaviors negatively affect us. I think that just making people AWARE of what stereotypes are in the mainstream media helps more than condescending lecturing and accusation, which are both methods I've seen badly deployed.
Something I'm on the fence with, however, is the idea of (tasteful) sexy females in video games, movies, etc. Do you think we can still portray females in that fashion without it being wrong?
I completely agree with all the points you make, but just as a note, the in-game logic for why she has to take her clothes off to use her hair as a weapon is that the black suit she wears all the time actually is made of her hair. She unwinds it from its standard skin-tight position around her body to use it for other purposes.
The misogynistic elements of the game are particularly upsetting to me, because mechanically, I find Bayonetta the most innovative and thrilling game yet this year.
The situation is worse than you think! The truth is she never actually wears clothes - her black outfit is actually entirely made of her magical hair, so when she needs to use her hair for something else... it can't cover her body at the same time.
leauxlotus 5 months ago
Why do I have a feeling that a lot of the dislikes came from gamers who were looking up this game and were upset it was criticised?
SkyStained 5 months ago in playlist More videos from feministfrequency
Fuck the haters; this video is great. Unfortunitly, we live in a society were people like to plug their fingers in their ears, shut their eyes and pretend that the problem does not exist or that 'us women folks gets too angry about things not for us'.
I can only guess that these dislikes came from fanboys of the game who thought this was going to be another video praising it or showing off the 'hawtness' of it.
Keep making the videos. We need something with intelligence here.
TheInkySea 6 months ago
Oh and there is also a much much worse game out there called Rapelay. And people will actually defend its existance... yeah
Kaldary 7 months ago
I'd just like to say - while it may not be representative overall- that I don't know any guys who've played this game, only girls, and both of them really enjoyed it. I wonder if that's because there are so few games with female protagonists to play, that even finding a game like Bayonetta is good enough. OR and I'm saying this very cautiously, maybe some girls want to roleplay at being hyper-sexual, violent and powerful? I don't know the answer, but I thought it was interesting.
heltha 7 months ago 200
- I mean, the game (PDZ) is a fps, you can't even look at her while you play. The only male characters are either a romantic foil who exists only to compliment the main character, ugly old villains, and a father figure who is weak and quickly surpassed. (If you think about it, this is an exact role reversal from standard shooter games.) Even the equipment itself toys with it's gender roles. The hacking device is shaped like a makeup-case. Like Joanna, you can't judge it by it's shape.
Soruyao 7 months ago
If you want a really good example of a video game where a female character fights and isn't constantly posing for the viewer in an exploitive way, look at perfect dark zero. It's a TERRIBLE game as far as story and gameplay are concerned, especially compared to Bayonetta, which I think is why you got so many dislikes, but it really nails the gender issue. The character is female and identifies as female, but she isn't doing anything for the sexual benefit of men (real life ones or in game)
Soruyao 7 months ago
O.o why are there so many dislikes? O.O are people that blind?
danx5005 7 months ago
@danx5005
Apparently they are. :P
TheInkySea 6 months ago
Wow, why is this so poorly rated? sigh.
elsaandgary 7 months ago
I don't have a problem with sexy women in video games, I'm a gamer girl who likes playing with sexy male characters, thats not sexist. But the male characters never do provakative poses, and that subway thing is SICK.
crazygreen89 8 months ago
How about Final Fantasy X-2 where the three main female characters fight in skimpy outfits and get their powers from what clothing they wear?
(FFX-2 is a brilliant game story-wise, but seriously, did Rikku really have to run around in a bikini and do they really need a wardrobe change to make Paine use a gun or to use Yuna's white-mage abilities from FFX?!)
sailorstar165 8 months ago
@sailorstar165 lol i hear the game makes guys uncomfortable just as much as girls who play it. basically, neither feel like they are the intended audience of the game. to guys, the game is too "girly." it has the jpop and the dressing up, and the singing. and of course to girls, it seems like it's just fanservice for guys. honestly, the game was just plain BAD to me lol.
selphiexfairy 6 months ago
i still dont understand why ppl dislike this..stupid idiots!
btw another wonderful video!! :)) good job!! you have totally enlightened me..i love all your vids! keep it up! <333
Rosieuchiha 8 months ago
Another bad adverts is the "Lynx" adverts.
Rikku2250 8 months ago
What's really interesting is the number of "dislikes". Mostly adolescent guys who like their porn I suppose.
But don't you get just how insulting such games are to women AND men? To women, it's the obvious: your only form of power is sex, accept to be a whore and all will be fine. To men: you are a perverted slob with a penis for brains, admit it. So go and be the rapist you are deep down.
How can anybody not see these subliminal messages?
alrune8 8 months ago
cant believe the dislikes. must be so many perverts that see women as objects on the world.
ImAsianIchigo 9 months ago
Something you also doesn't point out: We create separate cars to protect women. We do not educate men that women shouldn't need to be protected, because men shouldn't be behaving in this manner.
37thBlitz 9 months ago
What the hell is up with all the dislikes? What, is sexual harassment that easy of an issue to shrug off now? Have we gotten to the point in which we value a fucking video game over the rapey ad campaigns placed in public spaces where such harassment occurs?
Well shit.
midgysamurai15 9 months ago
I consider myself a feminist, but I also play video games, and I know this game is extremely sexist to the degree that it's almost funny but I love this game so much... haha I know I know, don't judge me.
missbraindamage 10 months ago
I'm a woman, and I will always think that Princess Peach is a more sexist character than Bayonetta. If you actually played the game instead of just watched the advertising, you'd note that Bayonetta kicks ass the entire game and every man in that game is completely incompetent in comparison to her and the other female lead, Jeanne in your positives. Bayonetta may be sexy and may be a tease, but she doesn't need a mans help; nor does she want it, in contrast every other girl character who need it
TheORIGINALOxymoron 10 months ago 255
@TheORIGINALOxymoron Did you even watch the video? "Kicking ass" in the game has absolutely nothing to do with it. This is all about exploitation.
44kittie 10 months ago
@TheORIGINALOxymoron Thank you! You're absolutely right!
ShadouzaHejjihoggu 6 months ago 146
I don't know why this video got such a negative response, because you were dead on. This video game is so sexualized, it's practically a parody.
cho474chang 10 months ago
@cho474chang I know! I was thinking exactly the same thing. :/
SlightFaith 10 months ago
It is a bit disturbing how women are objectified everywhere!! I think some people think she's saying women shouldn't dress like 'sluts', which would be sexist, when she's talking about the media encouraging or condoning or something men to respond to women dressing like 'sluts' or just being women :(:(:(
pruniandthegang 10 months ago
I definitely see this as a problem. in the rare chance that you get a female protaganist they're almost always hypersexualized and usually fall into this awkwardly flat archetype of "im female, but i'm a badass, too!" personally, i'd really like to see games become more mainstream, but all these sexualized images are probably very alienating toward women.
astrochiken 10 months ago
@astrochiken
Well I consider it a step up from what I see in TV or Movies. in romatic movies, women seem to be incapable of functioning without a man's help like the lead in a certain vampire series. If you look at tv shows like desperate housewives and shit like that, their portrait as whores who treat men as nothing but ATM machines and occationally suck their cocks as thanks. Maybe she has a ridiculous outfit, but really is this no better than was it shown in the media for women?
scipioninja 10 months ago
Bayonetta is INSANELY misogynistic honestly she makes Lara Croft look like a positive depiction, she doesn't even have a personality. Attempt to describe her without mentioning her actions, history, or appearance. There's nothing there.
MechaSixVII 10 months ago
why are there 890 dislikes to 190 likes? that is also worrying..
scarol17 10 months ago
Wow, thank you for that bit at the end. It's really amazing how society creates and supports the sexual harassment culture that we then try to thwart. Why not look at the cause instead of the result? WHY would men think that this is acceptable behavior by any standard of decency? Because that's clearly what they've been told.
duckiesgoqu4ck 11 months ago
@duckiesgoqu4ck The advertising is the real issue. Many men do not think it is acceptable behaviour (I certainly don't), but there's a tendency to encourage it in the media and in the "lad culture", which in turn through peer pressure (men who don't fit in are branded nerds, in many cases a "geek" is a male who does not behave like a jock) makes it seem normal to some men. Women sexually harass men as well but its less commonplace because there's not a peer pressure mechanism to encourage it.
Relugus 9 months ago
Comment removed
UniversalKiwi 11 months ago
The subway poster which invites participation - in a sort of pantomimed sexual assault - is horrid. However, the technique is brilliant when used for other purposes. For example, there was a public awareness campaign in Turkey which involved a poster with a woman's arm extended in such a way that passersby felt encouraged to interact with it. Eventually, her hand would be destroyed from people striking it, etc. Underneath was a message "stop the violence against women". I can't find the ad now.
TriciaLea24 11 months ago
I hate the people that think Japan has such a beautiful culture and idolize it. How can they be so ignorant? Japan is one of the most sexist modern countries.
00GreyEyedGirl00 1 year ago
@00GreyEyedGirl00 I have to somewhat agree with this. I think Japanese culture, much like the cultures of other countries around the world, is in fact beautiful. But it is also no less sexist than other countries. Yet much like other Westernized countries, people dismiss or ignore that while regions like the Middle East are lambasted constantly for sexism. Japan should, just like North America and Europe, deserve no less criticism for their sexism.
MsGuessit 10 months ago
The 374 people who disliked this video must be butthurt bayonetta fanboys.
RainmanStudios 1 year ago
bayonetta wasn't even a good game. It was just Devil May Cry (which is a game made by the exact same company that made Bayonetta), just with an overly eroticized female protagonist. I liked how she had sass and a personality, but besides that, the game was just one huge repetitive soft-core porno. Not really what I look for in games tbh.
RainmanStudios 1 year ago
@RainmanStudios More like a shittier version of DMC2, except all of your moves being replaced with God of War type flowchart combos (which probably served as his inspiration considering he hasn't made an action game in 10 years so he's forced to rip off someone else's idea) because he's mad he got fired from Capcom and doesn't own the rights to his old franchise and can't move on without a replacement for it.
neon6 11 months ago
@RainmanStudios "bayonetta wasn't even a good game. It was just Devil May Cry"
Except that in itself MAKES it a good game. The first Devil May Cry revitalized the dying action game genre and is rightfully regarded as a classic. Bayonetta takes the Devil May Cry formula and refines it to near-perfection, including the revolutionary ability to continue your combo right where you left after dodging an attack, not to mention the bullet-time triggered by a perfect dodge. This was previously unseen.
zweihand 11 months ago
@RainmanStudios Capcom published Devil May Cry, Sega (now a pathetic shadow of their former greatness, alas, so hardly surprising their marketing is desperate) published Bayonetta. Platinum Games, the developer, are indeed the same people (Clover) who made DMC. Bayonetta is basically a crude mixture of two Capcom icons; Dante and Morrigan. Bayonetta is funny but lacks the charm of those two iconic characters.
We get Bayo instead of Skies of Arcadia 2 and Shenmue 3. :(
Relugus 10 months ago
I think you're perhaps view points may be getting in the way of this game. I detest sex being used as a selling point, but once you get past that part, Bayonetta is quite an amazingly stylish game. I did not play the game from a typical male viewpoint, seeing her as a sexy ass kicker, but as an overly intelligent highly self aware seductress. I see exactly where you're coming from though. It's hard to look past the obviously sexist selling point but once you do I think this game can be amazing.
kiteofdark 1 year ago 22
What's hilarious is, the creator got very offended about people on the internet sexualisating his work. He wrote a gigantic blog post about how he was trying to make a statement about female empowerment and sexual liberation.
...
polymphus 1 year ago 51
@polymphus That is totally absurd, if he *really* was trying to go for female empowerment (which I seriously doubt), he should of consulted some folks who engage with, think about and envision female empowerment regularly, because he failed massively.
feministfrequency 1 year ago
@feministfrequency Of course it is. To date I've never been able to figure out whether it was massive ass-covering or whether he actually believes that. To date, I've never been able to figure out which would be worse.
polymphus 1 year ago
@polymphus err... what? either the creator is a total idiot, or you're totally making up a bunch of bullshit.
RainmanStudios 1 year ago
it's insulting to men as well because it assumes this is all we want in our entertainment. The developer said in an interview that he was trying to create a female character that has complete control over her sexuality and can dominate men as a distinctly feminine entity (without resorting to masculinity to dominate), but that's not really what comes through when you take a look at the cover art.
Bluehawk2008 1 year ago
this is my favourite video of yours. :) I'm going to be doing an essay at university on Bayonetta, partly because i've been inspired by your take on it. The irony is, i've heard that(as a game) it's pretty good. it's a shame that combining great gameplay with inoffensive representations of gender seems to be such a difficult thing for game developers to get their heads around! not that that's always the case, of course...
awesomedinosaur 1 year ago
I'm a male gamer, but I find these kinds of games very insulting to women and they piss me off. However, I find it also upsetting you listed "Single Mom", as a positive, as if raising a child without the benefit of the father around is actually a good thing. It's not.
I appreciate it's hard to fight sexism without appearing sexist yourself, however.
RikkWolf 1 year ago
@RikkWolf When I list single mom as a positive it is not because being a single mom in and of itself is positive but rather that representing the reality of women's situation, in which many are single mothers is fairly rare to see in the media. It is incredibly difficult and these mothers are not given the respect and support they deserve. And to your last point I am not sexist, and to even make that claim means you have a very limited understanding of what sexism actually is.
feministfrequency 1 year ago
@feministfrequency
Single mothers in the media are rare? It's quite saturated. Strong male figures that don't take off on mother and child are rare.
I never accused you of actually BEING sexist, I merely made the point it is easy to appear sexist in combating sexism. Although I will now say your derogatory attitude doesn't help your cause, and as a man that's actually been forced file a sexual harassment claim against a VERY sexist company, I know more than my share about sexism, thanks.
RikkWolf 1 year ago 253
@RikkWolf It sounded as though you were insinuating that I was being sexist, hence the defensiveness. Sexism isn't just about anyone not like/being mean/being bigoted towards someone of the opposite sex, it is about power. And socially men have power in our society whether they individually feel like it or not. Therefore to even allude to me being sexist is inaccurate. And as a side note, I am very concerned about representations of men and masculinity in the media.
feministfrequency 1 year ago
@RikkWolf she didn't mention anything even remotely sexist. In fact, you were the one being sexist by saying being a single mom acquaints to basically nothing and doesn't make a woman any better than she already is. Clearly you have no idea how hard it is to be a single mother.
RainmanStudios 1 year ago
@RikkWolf nor was she giving a derogatory attitude, grow up dude.
RainmanStudios 1 year ago
@RikkWolf also, I should add...
"..it's hard to fight sexism without appearing sexist yourself, however. "
there you directly implied she was being sexist. So I don't understand why you claim you weren't accusing her of that.
Not to mention, what she said about single mothers in the media was true. Besides crime dramas, where do you see believable female characters who are also single moms?
are you also saying you were a victim of sexism? as a man? now that's something you don't hear everyday.
RainmanStudios 1 year ago
@RainmanStudios "are you also saying you were a victim of sexism? as a man? "
I think this speaks for itself.
DemonTools777 11 months ago
@RainmanStudios Men love to shut feminists up by telling them that "Men suffer too! We have it just as bad as them, maybe worse!". Well, statistics and the status quo say differently, but ok. They are so blinded by their own privilege that it is unreal, with ad hominem attacks and personal anecdotes serving as their "logic". Really, they just don't want feminists to succeed in eliminating male privilege because they KNOW it benefits them. Oi vey.
MsGuessit 10 months ago
@feministfrequency
Why do you present that sexy female characters in video games and/or posters (or any public media for that matter) are encouraging sexual harassment as if it is a fact?
ksebail 1 year ago 13
@ksebail Media is one of many very strong factors that encourage and facilitate socialization, others are family, church, peer groups etc.
feministfrequency 1 year ago
Last week I took BART to and from Berkeley. On the way home, the trains were really packed. You could see that most women sat and stood in the same area of the car and that the women who were near men looked almost afraid.
It was horrible.
And nearly every advert that I saw sexualised women.
Loverwife 1 year ago
This wouldn't bother me if there were female oriented equivalents (But there aren't, of course, because, you know, sex is something only guys want to see).
It's unfortunate that society one big enabler that encourages all men to be ass-grabbing perverts while at the same time sexually repressing actual girls and women.
0Angel0A 1 year ago
@0Angel0A I disagree. There are loads hyper macho guys in games all bare chested and pretty. I don't think this is done to please guys.
SabreXT 1 year ago 4
@SabreXT I don't think it's done to please women, i might argue that it's done as a representation of what the game producers assume the men aspire to look like.
feministfrequency 1 year ago
This is one of your best videos. Don't listen to the haters -- really excellent, dead-on analysis.
rightsaiddave 1 year ago
Wow. Thanks for these really informative videos. I had no idea about the groping issues in Japanese subways (and I lived in New York, so I know it happens there - not from personal experience; I'm a guy). It's great that you connected that issue with the video game.
bmccaffe76 1 year ago
The Bechdel Test doesn't gauge whether it's feminist, but it can gauge whether women are invisible. In games, female characters often play a silent, rescuable or backup role, and that wasn't the case here. Yeah, maybe agency is the wrong word here- I guess I mean that the female characters actually advance the plot- without being there just for the sake of the male characters (for the sake of the adolescent fantasies though... yep. Still misogynistic).
umeblossoms 1 year ago
@umeblossoms The Bechdel Test doesn't gauge whether a text is feminist or not. I also find it difficult to talk about agency in terms of video game characters, especially those that were created as a male fantasy (no matter how campy it might be).
feministfrequency 1 year ago
ok
no offensive ...but it JAPAN!!!
these guys have HELLAVA content that make bayonetta
objection of women look like a school yard crush!
they freaking USED schoolgirl panties in venting machines for God only
know what. so yeah....this game is just the tip the iceberg of japan
pervertion
MEGAGUY21 1 year ago
@MEGAGUY21
Wrong; to assume that everyone in JAPAN thinks and looks positively on these sort of things is wrong and just one huge generalization for the entire nation. They know what they're making but it doesn't make it any more excusable. The fact that people can sweep it under the rub and shrug it off as 'Oh, its JAPAN.' just shows how desensitized people have gotten towards certain aspects in culture, especially gaming culture.
TheInkySea 6 months ago 4
"Overly sexualized adolescent male fantasy" pretty much hit the nail on the head. I'm a gamer and when I saw you were taking umbrage against something which so self consciously wants to court your indignation.. well.. I rolled my eyes at first. However, your review was insightful and even pointed out elements I had missed in my passing familiarity with the title (never owned it). Character limits prevent commentary on the subway element of the review but I found that insightful as well.
Anarchosyn 1 year ago
Thank you for addressing the Japanese "subway groping" phenomenon in addition to the Bayonetta poster. Interesting and important correlation & really shows how much thought and research you put into your topics. Keep up the great work.
AyashiNoCeres729 1 year ago
As a male gamer, I can see where you're coming from with the whole Bayonetta situation. I for one, fine the over-sexualization quite tasteless, the game itself was average, entertaining at best. Forgive me if i don't quite understand where you're coming from with the video, Were you just using Bayonetta's advertisement scheme as an example of the boundries people have crossed when portraying women, or was it a implication of gaming having an effect on people? Thank you for your time :)
imakooh 1 year ago
Again, excellent points. However, did I get that right that you are for voluntary segregation on trains? I hope not because that would mean just accepting the misogyny. What signal would this send to women? "Meh, men are men, you know, put up with it! If you don't wanna be harrassed you can still wear, uh, a large black sack or, um, use your own train cars!" Honestly: Should we really give in to the perverts and force women to segregate themselves?
MrFalderal 1 year ago
@MrFalderal I absolutely believe in creating a safe space for women and if that has to be through women only cars then I support it.
feministfrequency 1 year ago
@feministfrequency I'm sorry, but wouldn't making special women only carts kind of hurt the feminist cause, which is, you know, equality and the two sexes living together in harmony and so on?
YianKutHexy 1 year ago
@YianKutHexy Women and men can't live in harmony when women are constantly under the threat of harassment and violence.
feministfrequency 1 year ago
@feministfrequency Maybe so, but seperating them from eachother doesn't seem like a constructive, forward thinking solution to me.
YianKutHexy 1 year ago
@YianKutHexy So what is your constructive forward thinking solution to protect women from harassment?
feministfrequency 1 year ago
@feministfrequency I never claimed to have a solution, because I don't believe there is an imidiate remedy to sexism (not saying that there isn't one, just that it's not something we can rid ourselves with within a few decades). We can't do much more than to educate the masses, because the problem lies within individuals and the media. You can't force a temporary solution like seperating the troublemakers from the victims and expect to get constructive results.
YianKutHexy 1 year ago
@YianKutHexy Right the solution is not simple and quick therefore protecting women in the interim is crucial.
feministfrequency 1 year ago
@feministfrequency One also needs to keep in mind the somewhat misogynist culture of Japan, ofcourse the problem is a big(ger) one there. I personally think the western world has done some serious improvements over the generations, and more is to come no doubt.
YianKutHexy 1 year ago
@YianKutHexy Sorry if that was a bit convoluted and incomprehensive, YouTubes word-limit is stressing the crap out of me.
YianKutHexy 1 year ago
Randomly got linked from another site. Saw some comments about the name Bayonetta and the bayonette weapon. Just wanted to point out that "Bayonetta" was also apparently the name of the original "younger women" tribe in the 12th season of the show Survivor. Didn't read into that any deeper. Also that giant vacuum boss thing looks awesome. Never played this game but that boss looks awesome. I agree about the excessive sexual stuff being stupid but target demographics are what they are...
MachetesAreFun 1 year ago
Interesting--it's hard to argue against he objectification of the train adds. For the game itself, the only argument that didn't click my misogyny sensors (which, admittedly, are poor) is the Gamer Overthinker, which saw Bayonetta not as sexualized--but as sexually intimidating. The area of debate is how much of it is voyuerism and how much it is an at-command performance (if it can be called that).
majingojira 1 year ago
GOOD ARGUMENT! :D (but she's not a single mom. :P I'd be spoiling stuff if I go into depth.) I never thought of it like that. I'm a girl, and sure, I was a bit offended but it's just a video game, right? And also to the80'skickasswhateverwhaccamacalit: I know a whole group of girls who play video games! To tell you the truth, we (the group) enjoy storylined games rather then puzzles and stuff. Shooting stuff up for no reason? Naw, not too into that.
ChikenMuffinz 1 year ago
@ChikenMuffinz "I'm a girl, and sure, I was a bit offended but it's just a video game, right?". No, not just.
Any media is capable of broadcasting information and messages. The content of those messages are equally liable to scrutiny, be they plays, movies, books, or even "just" games.
They are all produced by human beings and as such, they all carry human intents.
cormano64 9 months ago
Also the plain fact that she is called Bayonetta, a bayonette is an accessory to the gun itself. If the gun is a representation of the entertainment value and draw of the game, then the title character is ironically of little worth or importance. I'm probably just reiterating what has already been said but it's crazy what passes for entertainment and how we so willingly buy into it.
Vihrea 1 year ago
@Vihrea
I dont think the bayonette (or bayoneta as we said in spanish) has no or little importance in a weapon, I think when I used the bayoneta in a sand bag, it was really scary, so I think Its a really serious weapon and it makes the fight more personal and a discusting experience for a soldier to use this weapon.
yellowmud75 1 year ago
- The provision tends to be 1-2 cars of a 10+ car train; this very much implies that women should be a minority of those who are mobile.
- If you make it half the train, you have the same segregation as of another oppressed group on trains in Southern States up until the 1950s or so.
evilhippo5 1 year ago
@evilhippo5 I think the difference between comparing the women only trains to the segregated south is that the current trains are optional. Providing women the option for a safer space is not rooted in a prejudice where segregation in the south was just out right racism.
feministfrequency 1 year ago
@feministfrequency I made that comparison prefaced "If you make it half the train". I understand that this is practice in certain Indian cities, where there is compulsory segregation of sexes of trains.
On the other hand, if you make it a minority optional provision of 1-2 cars, you firstly imply women are a minority of those mobile, and, as a later comment that was not approved said, you make the other carriages more male-dominated, likely worsening conditions for the remainder of women.
evilhippo5 1 year ago
@evilhippo5 I've approved all your comments, maybe it didn't post for some reason.
feministfrequency 1 year ago
Very good coverage of something that, frankly, made me feel physically sick when I saw it. However, I shall pick up on one point.
Having developed into a feminist (among other things) geographer with transport planning pretensions over the past three years of my bachelors degree, I have to say that I become more and more opposed to women-only carriages in public transport, and I shall summarise the reasons why.
evilhippo5 1 year ago
Finished subbing this one too, again, it might help to talk a little slower. Keep up the great videos. ^^
WarioDuke 1 year ago
@WarioDuke Thanks so much! Just added the captions to video!
feministfrequency 1 year ago
Any consumer of anime is well acquainted with Japan's unnerving brand of misogyny.
Swiffness 1 year ago
Agree with you, for the most part, about the game.
That said, did you really suggest that American public transit would be improved by having "separate but equal" subway cars for women? If a male politician suggested that, I believe you would find that idea incredibly insulting.
I don't agree with a lot of your points, but I do believe that your heart is in the right place when you make these videos, so count me in as a subscriber.
daniel154 1 year ago
@daniel154 I would not find it insulting if a male politician suggested optional separate women only subway cars, but they would never say that because male politicians are rarely looking out for women's safety.
feministfrequency 1 year ago
This is a great video. At first I thought it was regrettable but forgivable until you brought up the ad campaign they carried out in the subway. It saddens me to think that as technology advances we create new ways to degrade women. There are even porns that fetishize molestation and rape in subway stations.
My only complaint with this video is the audio quality. Its kind of hard to hear you. What kind of microphone are you using?
patrickbownes 1 year ago
That ad is not encouraging anything but people to buy the game. I'm sorry but this is an irrational response to a problem I agree is an issue, violation,but blaming a game the majority of people don't even know about or have played is laughable.
lukewarmstormed 1 year ago 159
@lukewarmstormed I didn't blame the game specifically, it is just encouraging behaviour that is already a problem.
feministfrequency 1 year ago
People have tried to sensor games, music, movies, and reading material for years, and it all comes down to the right producers have to make whatever product they want. I can understand some people don't like the game, that's okay, don't play it. However I've heard this rhetoric before from a lot of feminists who would rather remove all imagery their opinions find obscene, rather than allow people the freedom to create them.
Dirge987 1 year ago 7
@Dirge987 It is not about "freedom" or "censorship" it is about creating characters that are not oppressive.
feministfrequency 1 year ago
@feministfrequency You say it's oppressive, that's your opinion. What is your solution? I can agree with you that she is a laughable one-dimensional character, included only because of her physical appearance. I can agree that video games lack deep real female characters. But it goes both ways. Games lack dimensional male characters too. But that is not because of a patriarchal system or oppression. It's because games are made by and for gamers (mostly men), who have preconceptions of gender.
Dirge987 1 year ago
@Dirge987 so can't games be made by and for gamers including female gamers? Also, the gaming community should be concerned about how alienating the games and the communities are to women who would want to be apart of it.
feministfrequency 1 year ago
@feministfrequency I couldn't agree more. For every game with literary subtext or complex characters, there are fistfuls of cut and paste shooters or fighters who's protagonist is the action hero stereotype. The industry has problems, and I agree with your criticisms. The problem is women don't want to play games because they're not woman friendly, and they're not woman friendly because women don't play games. In the end change has to come from consumers because developers won't take the chance.
Dirge987 1 year ago
@feministfrequency Most women don't like video games. there is a stigma against it in the female social circles. When more women play video games, more games will be made for them. The games that women usually play are not story driven games (God of War) but more strategy game (Bejeweled). Women aren't really drawn to violence which is what most gameplay is now days. so the only company making games for women too is Nintendo. Sex and violence sell, and money is the bottom line.
The80sKickAss 1 year ago
@The80sKickAss Your statement about the types of games women play is totally wrong and there is lots of research done to disqualify the gendered argument you are making.
feministfrequency 1 year ago
@Dirge987 I would argue that the existence of games with this kind of inherent patriarchal structure reflects perceptions in our society about women in general. If there were not sexually possessive perceptions of women in society, games like this would not be created. The imagery reflects popular opinion, which is why it is so sickening.
definenothing 1 year ago
@definenothing Your statement is indicative of a western central mindset. The game is made in a country that has a completely different history and view of sex. We cannot make generalizations on our society based on their culture. We may see it as degrading, while they may see it as empowering. You state popular opinion, but it is only your perception of American popular opinion, and is in no way relevant to Japanese culture in which the game was produced.
Dirge987 1 year ago
@Dirge987 Although I would normally agree with your statement, patriarchy is clearly a HUGE problem in Japan as well, and the implementation of women only cars is just one indicator of that.
feministfrequency 1 year ago
Girl, just got to know your channel. It's awesome!!! Keep it up!
overainbows 1 year ago
leather? not quite..if you read up on the game you'd know it's her hair.
Also Sexual attraction is a natural emotion we all carry it's how we view it that truly leads us to do good or bad behavior...video games are a entertainment format that does not pushing us single handily into a category of good or bad behavior.
I'll just leave you with a simple quote:
"Think before you speak."
Wiiphantom 1 year ago
awesome
theoneananke 1 year ago
Japan is a strange place: they've never had a puritanical political or social inflluence that I'm am aware of, and because of that, they approach sex and sexuality differently than other societies do. Not an excuse for the ad campaign, but it would explain why it's less of a big deal there than here. Women are taught that it's less shameful to ignoreharassmentthan to react to it. Sorry, but if some guy on a train is grabbing my ass, he's getting an elbow to his solar plexus.
turtlewings 1 year ago
Bayonetta is also a very knowingly camp and OTT game. Which doesn't excuse it, per se, but it does make it come across a little differently. It's supposed to be really good and I love game with kickass women so I was considering getting it but after hearing about this advertising campaign... I think I'll pass.
Ayries 1 year ago
Consider playing the game and understanding the story before passing certain judgments. I'm not quite sure how you can find a heroine as progressive as Bayonetta to be "damaging" to women. Unlike most female characters in video games, Bayonetta is not another one of those sluts who is nothing more than eye candy. As a character, she is a frighteningly strong woman who, despite being sexy, is clearly not in it or anyone for herself. Actually give the game shot, you just might enjoy it...
RoboCafaz 1 year ago
I'd just like to point out that this game is laughed at by nerds as well for being so hypersexualized. I mean, everything from her glasses to BDSM-style attacks are fetishized. The ad campaigns were ridiculous, and its precisely for the fact that it has nothing but sex appeal that this game quickly faded to obscurity (I think it came out in January?).
wtfwhat3ver 1 year ago
You are unbelievably awesome! I love your videos, I love the fact that you comment and analyze issues that usually are ignored or undermined...
Thank you. Just thank you.
Please, publish more. :)
Vorodecky 1 year ago
Great video. I noticed as I watched that the logo with her name features the female symbol. Irony seeing as this game is so not feminist.
TallTeenTurtle 1 year ago
I just like the game because the combat, which isn't even all that great. But, it's so effing addictive.
darkace585 1 year ago
preach!
stringsolo 1 year ago
It's also sad that those countries even NEED those cars, because from what I gather, those countries haven't done much to discourage the behavior. Japan still makes ads like the Bayonetta one, shames women for being groped and raped, and generally continues with their misogynistic views of women.
(one final note unrelated to the content.. the audio was a bit low and I had to turn the volume way up to hear the commentary.)
Maverynthia 1 year ago
It's good to finally see someone actually talking about how Bayonetta is HURTING women. So many people want to praise the game as "empowering" or "simple sillyness" and buy the game (and these people are women themselves a few calling themselves feminists).
(Continues in next comment....)
Maverynthia 1 year ago
I was very excited when Bayonetta was first announced, because it was being developed by a company I had my eye on. However, the more I saw of the game, the less I was interested. I didn't buy the game because it did look like a cheap excuse for porn. The ad campaign was both innovative and incredibly sexist at the same time (you can be both). If she hadn't been naked underneath, then it would have been a cool participatory ad. However, sex sells.
iwantcandy2 1 year ago
and another sad but also very entertaining video. thank you!
Mippy88 1 year ago
The justification for the nudity is that her outfit is actually made from her hair, so when the hair is being used for attacking it isn't available for the more mundane task of clothing her.
Not that that's a legitimate excuse, but that's the explanation.
arkne 1 year ago
Feministfrequency, you look a little like the character in Bayonetta.. strange coincidence! haha.. jokes aside, you're making good points about this game.. its nothing more than a simplistic and sexist game. And the increasing cases of sexual harassment is unsettling.
Okhlopkov 1 year ago
I really like the way you look at the world and are able to deduce why and how these behaviors negatively affect us. I think that just making people AWARE of what stereotypes are in the mainstream media helps more than condescending lecturing and accusation, which are both methods I've seen badly deployed.
Something I'm on the fence with, however, is the idea of (tasteful) sexy females in video games, movies, etc. Do you think we can still portray females in that fashion without it being wrong?
selectivexhearing 1 year ago
I completely agree with all the points you make, but just as a note, the in-game logic for why she has to take her clothes off to use her hair as a weapon is that the black suit she wears all the time actually is made of her hair. She unwinds it from its standard skin-tight position around her body to use it for other purposes.
The misogynistic elements of the game are particularly upsetting to me, because mechanically, I find Bayonetta the most innovative and thrilling game yet this year.
caromichelle 1 year ago