Shep Smith and The Judge on the Torture Memos!

[RachTrinity]

Ah so today Shep as long as we sent a drone missile to Libya and allowed the mobs of Muslim Brotherhood to drag out Gaddafi and torture him and shoot him in the head, (which believe me I don't mind) it's okay now?? What's torture..? SHUT UP Shep this is when Shep became a full fledge MORON

[knkevinuk]

Say no to the new world order

[loupgarou5z3w]

I would never be so mean & biased as to say that Fox runs GOP propaganda 24 hours a day. They only do about 19 hours of conservative propaganda each day, the other 5 are more or less neutral.

[jazzfan5000]

Actually, it is 24 hour propaganda however you look at it! It's news that shouldn't be watched! Turn it off and don't look back!

[loupgarou5z3w]

Fox will allow the very occasional anti-torture statement such as this one (on one of Fox's less-watched programs, no?) while O'Reilly & Hannity are on five nights a week advocating torture with great gusto every time the issue comes up. Trace Gallagher's another pro-torture guy, along with the Fox& Friends nutbars. Fox's notion of balance is a 10-ton weight on one side of the scale, & a paperclip on the other.

[stephen2152002]

Do you see politicans, news anchors giving up there jobs to fight this war? One reason why some people have joined is because they don't have a choice! Where are the jobs!??

[stephen2152002]

Liberals who avoid service don't believe in fighting wars, especially when we are fighting a war that is not ours. Don't throw 911 in, because it hasn't been even close to becoming fully investigated. And for those so called people responsible, we are not even fighting them!  We aren't even there for the same reason, but it stil pushed the agenda now didn't it?

[scorzeny45]

most leftwing liberal america bashers are trustfund jews, Most jewish men avoided military service in our wars ,i guess thats for others to do [irish,poor southern whites] they avoided the draft by claiming college deferment status.creeps like chuck schumer,barney frank,bloomberg etc. shameful not fair.

[driverx241]

I look at the crazier, sort of fringe parts of the right wing and try to make fun of it, but I get to stuff like this. How the fuck do I make fun of this? When blaming Jews for every little bit of random bullshit starts becoming commonplace again, what am I supposed to do? What inane joke or strange little satirical remark can I make that won't just pale in comparison? It's beyond parody. You joke about someone believing some conspiracy involving lizardmen or Jews, then somone seriously says it.

[mostecri]

america voted the results are in.

dear republicans, crawl back into your insect "interrogation" coffins and STFU

[lhooq21]

Shep Smith is a conservative we can at least speak with...

[mozluver99]

Lefties only speak with people that agree with them.

[lhooq21]

Are you calling Shep a leftie?

[rkeppler3633]

In my legal opinion, rounding up all the wingnuts, putting them in camps and burning them is legal and not torture.

[Paramedic851]

This is still crap

Cheney wanted them released

What they did was illegal--its simple

Now we have manufactured controversy

[MooseOfReason]

Shep talked more about torture on "Freedom Watch" - which is hosted from the Strategy Room. Freedom Watch is on Wednesdays at 2:00 p.m. on FoxNewsDOTcom/Live, and is hosted by the Judge.

[wntoply6]

finally some sanity from fox. but how much longer will shep be at fox before he is fired and foeced to become a local anchor in boise idaho.

[Addendum69]

Yes, the Southern Democrats were against it the Civil Rights Act. They left to join the Republican party.

[DUKEXIV]

Rip off their toenails, and shave their heads

brake all their fingers, and mess up their beds

Staple back their eyelids,and make them watch Oprah

shave off their beards,and kick um off the sofa

Call their mommy's, and tell them their dead

cause the USA just whacked off their head

[Flatliner0452]

okay, I'm glad we can at least agree that Oprah is torture.

[chasmcrown]

Nancy Pelosi denies knowing U.S. officials used waterboarding — but GOP operatives are pointing to a 2007 Washington Post story which describes an hour-long 2002 briefing in which Pelosi was told about enhanced interrogation techniques in graphic detail.

[wiseass2147]

I Can't believe I'm writing this, but Shepperd Smith, is right, it's not a left/right issue. Torture is illegal, and it can not be tolerated. Napolitano is right too. Wow, good sense coming from people on FOX "News", Crazy!

[Ian7570]

Actually I think this is the most "Fair and Balanced" that i've seen Fox News for awhile. I like Shep Smith, he's right wing but has a brain too.

[dave777blaster]

The whole world knows America is a torturing entity ,Thus your soldiers will be subjected to torture .they will be water boarded and allowed to be humiliated. Otherwise you had better apply justice from the top down here.

Those that advised the President that water boarding was ok, you had better prosecute those pigs.

The world is watching !

[TheMrSeagull]

Propaganda? Huh? Where?

[DUKEXIV]

Twist um,hurt um,and threaten their lives hunt down their children and their wives Please do what ever you think you must we depend on you; and in you we trust Water board um,shock um and brake every bone teach them to learn to leave, our country alone If MY life or that of my family, are in peril Please give it to um,with your gun barrel THAT'S your damn job,duty and your responsibility to do WHATEVER it takes, to the Best of your ability.

[45axelh]

can they torture you to see if you are a traitor or not ?

[listenthere]

Extremist republicans,  dont want this torture talk.... I say...If you haven't done anything wrong....you got nothing to worry about.

Investigating our democratic mistakes will not create terrorists, as our own deeds,and our foreign policy.

Like:

ordering the killing 150,000 iraquis dead and ivading their country... That alone has created a generation of American haters around the world.... who ordered that war?

Enough of these extreemist republicans.

, the CIA does not run our country

[jeffwads]

you fucking moron. thank goodness you are not in control. we wouldn't have a country to piss in.

[nateduece]

Apparently neither do we, the citizens. These people in washington (Both parties) are completely out of control. Somebody needs to be arrested for these crimes. The constitution must be upheld.

[snarej]

discussions over what constitutes torture can be debated into the metaphysical ether until both sides are blue in the face--because on an individual level, what constitutes torture is subjective. When a judicial body or a society says something "is torture", its assumed to be something that the vast majority of non-pathological people would consider intense physical or mental pain and suffering. Pretending, for example, that there is any dispute that water-boarding is torture, is ridiculous.

[gamer082009]

I hate Fox News Channel, but I will say the only bright few left on that channel are Judge. Napolitano and of course my fave, Shepard Smith!! They have sense.

[thedecider1984]

then don't watch it asshole

[obm1412]

Shep is a douche

[psychomillionaire]

America backs Saudi Arabia who have a terrible human rights record.America backs Israel who are persecuting the Palestinians.Since WW2 America has backed the most oppressive regimes,and Sheppard Smith says America are the good guys????

America bullies,America invades,America tortures.Thats the facts as we know them and anyone who says different is burying their head in the sand or is a complete liar.

Its Fox news so it must be true.

[medaa25]

I've been watching this debate over torture for a while and I ve yet to hear about the 2 people who died at Guantanamo...

[thedecider1984]

we should charge hussein where is REAL birth certificate.

[ushadrons]

It is that all you can say, If there were any truth to your birth certificate bullshit don't you think the GOP would be talking about it every day? Get over it . You lost the election by a landslide, the country has rejected your party and their ideas.

[HarryJAnslinger]

Sheppard really wants Fox News to fire him.  Truth doesnt go over well there.

[arubberball]

johnnydollar0 It's more of that 24-hour GOP propaganda from Fox!

What are you implying?

[BiFootballDude]

Shephard Smith is my new hero. He won't be at FOX News much longer, which will actually be a blessing for him.

[arubberball]

He's not going anywhere, unless he can make more money. If so good for him.

[Lomainer]

Shep does seem like a principled and fair man.

[adfiller]

"Shep just read some email that said he's a pompous ass on this issue a few minutes ago"

Good, I was afraid he wouldn't get it.

[Lomainer]

I'm not saying waterboarding is or isn't torture. But if you say it is, you must also say that the United States has tortured everyone of their special ops soldiers. Why has no one asked a group of SEALs or Green Beret's whether or not they feel their government tortured them?

[jeremyemilio]

When you volunteer for it, it's not torture. When you can refuse to participate, it's not torture. When the guidlines have been set ahead of time and you know how to end it if it becomes too much, it's not torture. S & M is not torture. Neither is an NFL football practice. And neither is military training. Waterboarding a guy 6 times a day for a month? That's torture.

[Lomainer]

You state you opinion like it is fact.  "Too much"? A SEAL doesn't get to say after 2 seconds."ok guys I've had enough". You really don't know what your talking about. Some might say, if you are left with absolutely no physical damage, you of course were not tortured. Some might say mental discomfort or terror for 40 seconds is NOT TORTURE. The problem is you lump 40 seconds of horrific fear with ACTUAL TORTURE, ya know the kind that actually maims.

[jeremyemilio]

You miss the point. These are volunteer soldiers. They know exactly what's taking place. They understand that the people doing the waterboarding are friends, not enemies trying to force them to reveal information they may or MAY NOT have. You're being as ridiculous as the people who spend a night 'homeless' every year to raise awareness and see what it's like. If you get to go home in the morning, it's called camping.

Regardless, 40 seconds 183 TIMES in a MONTH is torture for ANYONE.

[Lomainer]

Your argument....The act of waterboarding is not what makes it torture, its the mindset of the "torturee". How absurd. And your analogy of the homeless for a day is equally absurd. Look, I think the circumstances surrounding water boarding is that where intelligent human beings can disagree on whether or not it is to described as torture. Yet your point of view is that some waterboarding is torture and some is not. And, I would guarantee that most spec ops were equally terrified for 40 secs

[jeremyemilio]

Sometimes punching someone repeatedly in the ribs and face is torture; sometimes it's boxing. Sometimes pushing someone's head underwater is torture; sometimes it's water polo. Sometimes whipping someone is torture; sometimes it's kinky sex. Sometimes injecting a person with toxic chemicals is torture; sometimes it's cancer treatment. Sometimes sticking someone repeatedly with needles is torture; sometimes it's a tattoo. Sometimes waterboarding is torture; sometimes it's training.

Get it?

[tripmcneely187]

Your analogies are completely retarded. Torture is about psychological control so comparing a boxer (who knows/wants to be in the fight) and knows it's a sanctioned sporting event and that he has an incredibly slim chance of death, versus an unsuspecting guy who has no idea if you're gonna kill him or not is totally different.

Comparing waterboarding which is simulating a drowning scenario in which your brain tells you that you are dying....to water polo is absolutely moronic.

[45axelh]

not to mention that a boxer can defend himself and fight back... they arent bound to a pole and let some guy pound on them.

[jeremyemilio]

That's the point I was making... you need to read the whole thread I guess.

[45axelh]

I wasn't arguing with you, just adding to your argument some points that you did not mention.

[jeremyemilio]

Hey trip, I'm a friendly; hold your fire! That's actually the point I was making. You need to go back to the thread and read the whole thing. Lomainer argued that if waterboarding was torture, then it was always torture and the US had therefore tortured its own men when it used waterboarding as training. I was simply pointing out, as you are, that when done in a controlled training exercise of which you are voluntary participant, although it's the same act, the context makes it different.

[KryssySushi]

Thats actually a situation of consent on the receivers end. If the person being punched in the ribs and the face is another boxer, then it's not torture.

If the person is held against their will, imprisoned, and you beat the crap out of them, then that's torture and abuse.

[jeremyemilio]

Second or third comment I've received like this, so I'm at fault, but I'm on your side Kryssy. The point you've made is exactly the point I was making in reply to Lomainer's comment that if you say waterboarding is torture "you must also say that the United States has tortured everyone of their special ops soldiers." I was simply stating, as you have here, that consent and context matter. I wasn't implying that boxing and beating someone are the same; I was pointing out the difference.

[KryssySushi]

Ah okay. Should have looked at the complete Convo, but I was on my lunch at work and had to go back at the time I saw your comment.

Sorry.

[FatoDrunkoAndoStupid]

Are you suggesting that CIA agents had kinky sex with prisoners?

[jeremyemilio]

Have you not seen the photos?

[the07tour]

FOX OR NOT SHEPS THE MAN. The judge seems to be fair minded too.

[valgehiir]

yeah, nice description and we get it. The thing is, I wish Fox was this sane all the time. But this is Shep, he is not really Fox crew. When people think of Fox, they think O'Reilly, Hannity and now Beck. You have to agree the last 2 are insane, no?

[xleax]

All 3 are good guys.

[LiberalshateAmerica]

val- Shep is the guy who reads the news,Oreilly, Hannity and Beck COMMENT on the news. Just because you dont agree with them does not make them wrong OR insane.

[valgehiir]

Liberals, allright, it would be fair to say I do not agree with Hannity. O'Reilly is different, there is logic behind his reasoning, agree or not, but I do get his point. Hannity seems to push blind ideology, would we agree on that? your user name suggest we have different views on US political discourse. I watch many pol shows, Olbermann amongst them. But I watch Olber for entertainment only. I wonder if you agree with Hannity and Beck, or is it mostly entertainment for you? Cheers!

[LiberalshateAmerica]

valgehiir- I watch the 3 of them some of the time, dont agree with everything (not many do) I guess the person I enjoy most and agree with most is Ann Coulter but you have to understand I am a disabled American Vet so I am a Homeland Securtiy Certified Right Wing Extremest. haha

[valgehiir]

LiberalshateA, thanks!

your last sentence.. the sarcasm, no need. I do not subscribe to this 'extremist' name calling by far left or 'classifying' groups of people who have opinion different from Kos, I will never get this. people have dif views, no reason to hate,

really.

[commieatheist]

What you are is a stupid lying fuck.

[LiberalshateAmerica]

commie- I didnt lie about anything but I would like to personally thank YOU for paying for my health care later this year. You see I pay $700 a month now and with the money I save I am going to buy a new BMW. I will think of you often as I drive around, wind blowing through my hair. You are the best!

[nateduece]

lol......

[jeremyemilio]

Yep, Hannity and Beck are clearly nuts. Kudos, though, on differentiating O'Reilly from the other two. Conservative? Yep. A hothead? Sure. But all in all O'Reilly's pretty fairminded, and actually worth watching, even if you're a 'liberal loon' like me.

[Justanotherhuman2]

Shepard, you are my hero. You are the only fair and balanced person on FOX. I just watched your other video on FOX 10minutes ago. YOU ROCK!! For the first time judge Napolitano is wearing his legal hat instead of his FOX partisan hat. Time to bring juris prudence back to government.

[thisabclovesmetal]

Nice description johnny, I see what you did there...

= D

Shep just read some email that said he's a pompous ass on this issue a few minutes ago.

[liquidflorian]

I would waterboard Shep Smith.

[LiberalshateAmerica]

liquid- I think Shep is looking for a CBS position that will be open soon.

[GreenEnergy2112]

Conservatives = Torture

Conservatives = Aggression

[thedecider1984]

fuck off

[ushadrons]

Republicans are a bunch of ignorant malcontents, who can be worked into a frenzy about anything. They simply can't live with the reality that they lost the election so badly. Their desperation has lead them to look increasingly insane. Their divorce from reality and retreat into the political netherland of subjective hate and fear, runs counter to the direction of the conciousness of our country. These Palinesque optics will lead them to a major defeat in 2010 and 2012. Life is beautiful.

[thedecider1984]

this from the party of baby killers.

[ushadrons]

This is from the party of limbic brain disorder.

[TylerNull]

Democrat = Treason

Obama just betrayed a classified war program to maximally damage our nation, and the focus of the duplicitous press is whether or not to prosecute those who defended us from their Muslim comrades.

Criminalizing the act of national defense is the core of the Democrat's war effort. Oddly, some dupes STILL believe they are on our side.

Democrats are one long torturous joke against America.

[degraves2003]

Ironic that pro-life republicans support torture and anyone that oppose their opinion is treasonous. Who is really being the fascist here.

[TylerNull]

You treasonous scum recite your "torture" mantra to cover your treasons. Sadly, its working so far.

There's no irony in protecting innocent life -- either babies from a torturous death or all citizens from your new-found Muslim buddies.

There is hypocrisy, treachery, and depravity in squealing torture to shut down our most humane and effective interrogation techniques, while torturing the most innocent of life to death by the truck load each year in abortion centers.

[degraves2003]

You sound more like a terrorist then Osama does. Are you gonna bomb health clinics like the rest of the crazies. If redefining torture helps you sleep at night, go right ahead.

[TylerNull]

Siding with America is terrorism?

You sound like Obama's HLS Secretary, and every other mindless Liberal reciting the mythology that was planted in your servile minds by those who own them.

It helps no one to chant "torture" while betraying our classified war programs and divulging all the details of our most successful and humane interrogation techniques.

Democrats & Treason -- Life Partners

[degraves2003]

There is no debate, Waterboarding is torture. America executed Japanese soldiers who water boarder our soldiers. You wouldn't know an American idea or ideal if it slapped you in the face. You and the small bunch of loons over at the Republican party call an elected government a dictatorship, call secession from the United States patriotism, that liberals are somehow the bogeymen trying to take your rights away when the Republicans are the only party that historically does that.

[TylerNull]

When not betraying America, rewriting history is the Democrats other favorite pastime.

No, American's didn't execute Japanese soldiers for splashing water on the face of US POWs.

Democrat's rich history of treason will continue until Americans step up and put a stop to it.

The last time we executed some of you socialist, America-hating scum (the Rosenberg's) you toned down your treachery for a few years.

Clearly, you're kind is due for another wake up call.

[degraves2003]

United States charged a Japanese officer, Yukio Asano, with war crimes for carrying out form of waterboarding on a U.S. civilian

[TylerNull]

Waterboarding wasn't even a word then, jackass.

The Japanese operated on live conscious soldiers for medical experimentation, plucked eyeballs out, snapped bones, and otherwise tortured soldiers to death.

Watching Democrats rewrite history is usually amusing, but when they do so to cover for their treasons its just plain repugnant.

[degraves2003]

Waterboarding has been around since the Spanish inquisition. If you know anything about words you'll know they change over time.

[degraves2003]

And they invoke fear like the red scare to stop change. They called Martin Luther King a communist for speaking out against JIm Crow, they say it is okay to murder, if the victim has committed the act, they say that separate is equal, they defend the rich and big business, and call you elitist if say otherwise. They lie to your face and you believe it. The truth is they are a fraud, and their base is built on the belief that you are too dumb to figure it out.

[TylerNull]

Martin Luther King Jr was a Republican, jackass.

[TylerNull]

... and Jim Crow laws ???

"

It was the Democrats who fought to keep blacks in slavery and passed the discriminatory Black Codes and Jim Crow laws. The Democrats started the Ku Klux Klan to lynch and terrorize blacks. The Democrats fought to prevent the passage of every civil rights law beginning with the civil rights laws of the 1860's, and continuing with the civil rights laws of the 1950's and 1960's.

"

-- nationalblackrepublicans . com

Democrat = Racist

[TheHappyGrunt]

Because passing the Civil Rights act under LBJ was a totally rascist move. The parties basically switched positions on the spectrum then. Democrats were Southerners before that, Republicans were large parts of the rest of the country. Don't blindly slander a party, do it with facts, it'll work much better.

[TylerNull]

Debunking Democrat Mythology: Civil Rights Act of 1964 (FOR-AGAINST): House Vote: Democratic Party: 61%-39% Republican Party: 80%-20% Senate Vote: Democratic Party: 63%-37% Republican Party: 80%-20% As for LBJ ... "I'll have those n*ggers voting Democratic for the next 200 years." -- Lyndon B. Johnson, Democrat President

[degraves2003]

By the way cudos to working the numbers to fix your agenda. More Democrats voted for the bill in totality then the Republicans. Let me lay it down for ya. 0 Republicans from the south voted for the bill. In fact because the bill pass Lyndon B Johnson lost the white democrats in the South. Guess what party they ran too ... the Republicans. I guess you can't fix stupid there is no rewriting of history the white democrats then became the white republicans of now continue your brainwashing sessions.

[TylerNull]

"working the numbers"

It's The Congressional Record, jackass.

Find a less transparent mythology to cover your party's rich history of slavery, sedition, segregation, and never-ending racism.

Democrats -- America's toxic farce.

[degraves2003]

First of all the party that oppose slavery died with slavery. The current Democrats come from the split the Republican party had after Lincoln. That is why both parties point to Lincoln in political speeches today. Nice try in trying to rewrite history.

[TylerNull]

You just tried the "No I'm Not But You Are" defense. It's amusing, but fallacious.

Today, from La Raza ("THE Race") to the KKK to genocidal law professors like Kamau Kambon, Democrats and their organizations sponsor a rainbow of racists. Then, now and as always, Democrats are racist scum.

As you noted, Democrats have no historically favorable leaders with which to enshroud themselves, so they lean on Republicans. Their servile, ignorant voters are infinitely malleable.

Democrat = Fraud

[degraves2003]

First of all I never said that, 2nd of all your arguments makes no sense. The Northern Democrats took a stand and said sepeate is not equal and the supporters of Jim Crow left the Democrats and went to the Big Tent Republicans effectively giving the southern states to the Republicans to this day. If you think the KKK is a democratic organization recognize that they were around before Lincoln is founded on hate of anyone who is not Anglo-Saxon. Democrats don't meet that Anglo-Saxon test.

[Yimbie]

Before the political realignment of the 1970s.

[degraves2003]

IN so little words you have just shown yourself to be an idiot beyond repair, a bigot of your ideals, and a racist at worse. Luther King never identified with a party and I guess Kennedy pushing the bill through congress had nothing to do with him being label a communist, Southern Democrats and Southern Republicans were against civil rights in the South. Don't try to rewrite history it was those northerners like Kennedy that marched with Luther King.

[cupocity303]

And you sound like another right-wing windbag who listens too much to Rush Limbugh, Hannity and O'reilly.

[TylerNull]

And you post like another mindless dolt with nothing to say and no brainpower with which to say it.

[cupocity303]

I'm not here to impress your right-wing-ish ass. You are a dipshit and thats' all there is to it.

Keep up the good work

[degraves2003]

Hideji Nakamura, Yukio Asano, Seitara Hata and Takeo Kita, and a San Jacinto County sheriff James Parker where all charged and sentence for waterboarding. James Parker specifically use waterboarding to get a confession out of somebody. I guess you are wrong after all.

[TylerNull]

Do you REALLY think your historical rewrites undo the rich history of Democrat treasons?

Democrats have openly advocated for the enemy, slandered and imprisoned US combat soldiers, colluded with Iraq's dictator, and betrayed our most successful war programs.

Squealing "torture" doesn't change those facts.

Democrats & Treason -- Life Partners

[degraves2003]

Yeah and Reagan didn't fund Osama in the fight against the Soviets in Afganistan, Carter didn't broker peace between Isreal and Egypt the original birthplace of Jihad fundamentalist, John Mcharthy wasn't a Republican, Nixon didn't wiretap political opponents, and now add torture to the list with Bush. The difference is LBJ didn't compromise his moral even in the face of political defeat.

[degraves2003]

Look up treason and you'll see lsedition right next to it. I don't think taking up arms and fighting your government is anything but sedition which is treason under the Law. You wanna talk hypocrisy and use violent imagery look in the mirror and see the bigot in the reflection. We have soldier fighting for America and you want to return the favor with torture instead of living up to our ideals. Obama was right to release the memos,bigots wouldn't understand that.

[TylerNull]

No matter how hard Democrats try to convince the reader otherwise, NEVER let them convince you they are dumb enough to believe that upholding the laws against treason is treason.

Their bouts of stupor are a ruse to distract from their endless betrayals of America.

[degraves2003]

Only dictators and bigots deals in absolutes, and use words like never and always. You have not given me one accurate betrayal that any democrat had made. There is no greater betrayel then lying to the American public. Bush said we do not torture, while they waterboarded and beat and kill 32 prisoners in Abeu Grebe has a result of there policy reaching the lower levels. That violates are constitution, that is the great betrayal.

[TylerNull]

Democrats are blind to their endless treasons, while simultaneously criminalizing the act of national defense.

Shamelessly, the dictatorial and bigoted scum keep trying to smear their stink on those who notice.

[degraves2003]

What treason have the democrats commited beside disagreeing with Republicans. Because you got nothing, you got no evidence, no historic evidence, no nothing to make that assertion. I have provided my reasoning for saying that Republicans are the ones actively trying to take away rights. You haven't given me anything but name calling, and bigotous comment such as treason. Keep screaming and you'll run out of insults to describe your fake outrage. You look the other way to your own failures.

[TylerNull]

You ignore the example of Democrat treason that I referenced in my first post -- Democrats betraying classified war programs for the purpose of criminalizing the act of national defense during war time -- and yet ask you shamelessly ask for more.

Your "reasoning" is that upholding laws against treason is treasonous.

My "insult" was to refuse to accept the notion that you believe such aggressively anti logical idiocy. I really wouldn't know HOW to debase you any more than you have.

[degraves2003]

Torture is not a national defense program. Any program secret or not that goes against the law is illegal. If the military from a program to commit genocide of Muslim to make sure that all the terrorist are kill, that would be a classified war program which is illegal under our constitution. And the fact you try to justify it by citing national security makes you morally weak. Treason by definition seeks the destruction of the U.S. and I don't think releasing memos will do that.

[degraves2003]

You are an utter disgrace, not only is that not evidence of treason, it falls into the legal right granted by the Constitution to the office of Presidency of the United States. Your comments speak volumes of how you are willing to defend torture and yet call others the wrong doers for exposing it. It is just like those segregationist blaming black people for wanting equal rights. The fact that you don't even know what you are saying is even more frightening then what you actually said.

[TylerNull]

Democrats call the death penalty torture.

Democrats call police tazers torture.

Converselly, Democrats also claim its their "right" to torture babies to death by the truck load every year.

Betraying our most successful and humane war programs for the express purpose of criminalizing the act of national defense during war is high treason.

It really doesn't matter how much you filthy animals squeal "torture" to cover for your treasons, it doesn't make them any less so.

[degraves2003]

For your information, the death penalty is a hypocritical practice. It is revenge justice which is morally on thin ice.

Second not a single Democrats oppose the use of tazers, would you rather the cop shoot the person in stead. What we oppose is police brutality which happens more then you think.

Torture is not a humane war program, the Nazis did it, the Japaneese did it, and the Viet Cong did it and were all prosecuted in US courts for doing it.

[TylerNull]

For your information, the death penalty saves lives. Imprisoned murderers go on to kill an maim the less violent and non violent inmates and prison guards.

As for the rest of your post, your denials are getting stale. Your depravities are as boundless as your politics are pernicious.

[degraves2003]

Who are you to decide which murderers die and which ones die. That is the equivalent of abortion in your own view and you use that argument in which you use against supporting abortion to support the death penalty. Hypocrisy. By the way the USSR said it was against national security for you to have freedom of speech. I guess are right to press and religion has criminalized that act of national security. You blame the democrats for everything just like the Nazis did the Jews.

[TylerNull]

"the equivalent of abortion"

You extend the death penalty to the most innocent of human life in the womb, while doing your best to ensure the most murderous convicted felons live on to kill as many as can be killed.

In ANY given topic, from birth to war to crime, Democrats will ALWAYS side with whichever side will maximally exterminate innocent human life. The act of observing that isn't hypocrisy, in either case.

Democrats -- divorced from reality.

[degraves2003]

By the way Chavez is an elected official of Venezuela, and has the support of several L. American countries.

[degraves2003]

Really then why do you support Killing someone to prevent killing someone. It sounds like the same methodology that got us into the Iraq war. Let's prevent the killing of civilians by waging a war that will in the future kill over 100,000 civilians (not including insurgents, U.S. military, and secondary deaths) instead of addressing the problem. If you want to go down that route, go and invade N. Korea, Somalia, Nigeria, Africa, Europe, Americas because they all have the potential to attack us.

[degraves2003]

The reason your argument is on a slippery slope is you are saying it is okay to kill someone if you think they kill in the future. Well to put in an extreme case it can be rationalize by your logic that everybody even unborn fetus is eligible for the death penalty. You can support the death penalty and be anti-torture because if we know that birth will kill the mother isn't abortion justified by your own logic. This is your thinking.

[degraves2003]

You know what you are, a coward. Cowards hide behind national security to support inhumane practices. When is waterboarding not cruel and unusual. This is exactly why Latin America is critical of the U.S. now. We put dictatorships in those countries and look pass are democratic values. And guess the justification, to stop the spread of Communism in L. America and to protect U.S. interest. That is right we put dictators and intervene in elected gov.t to protect national security. Grow a brain.

[TylerNull]

When is torturing babies to death not cruel and unusual? Oh that's right, it's "usual", thanks to Democrats.

As for Latin America, you communists should be happy ...

USA & Contras vs. Democrats & Sandinistas

USA & Cubans vs. D'rats, Castro & Che

USA & Venezualans vs. D'rats & Chavez

Pointing to the rich history of Democrat treason doesn't require bravery. Failing to execute the scum is rather cowardly -- and costly, as we now see such scum criminalizing the act of national defense.

[degraves2003]

The only reason Castro became communist because he wasn't at first was because he was America refuse to deal with Castro when came to visit so guess what he ran to the Soviets when he had a problem. Even Reagan met with The Russian dictator and you can finger point all you want nobody is criminalizing national defense in fact you proven my point. Nixon shook hands with Mao the Communist Chinese leader. You are certifiable. I wonder if you know you are arguing for a dictatorship.

[TylerNull]

I point to Democrat's rich history of treasons and you respond by apologizing for Castro; pointing to Reagan's victory over your buddies as if it bolsters your notions; and Nixon's ability to help move China in the direction of capitalism, as if THAT masks your party's treasons.

No reasoning mind needs to wonder about the toxicity of your politics, nor of the rancid mythology upon which they are based.

[degraves2003]

No party has commited treason not even the republicans. But you are to idiotic to realize it. How toxic is the politics of supporting TORTURE. You like to hide behind national security like a coward, you want to blame democrats for every thing, and you question our loyalty to this country. Questioning our patriotism is off the table, democrats love this country too and we love it enough to use are rights to criticize it when we think its wrong.

[degraves2003]

You got this one completely wrong by the way. When have the democrats come out in support of the Sandinistas, the USA has a whole put into power Castro and the US weren't protecting Cubans they were protecting U.S. companies in Cuba just like in the Banana Republic. U.S. companies were abusing the Cuba workforce and exerting political control over in Cuba just like the Banana Republic. So Castro pleaded ot the U.S., the U.S. ignored, Castro became communist and kick the U.S. companies out.

[TylerNull]

"When have the democrats come out in support of the Sandinistas"

You mean aside from the Democrat Congress cutting off funding for deployed US troops that were helping the Contras them?

You mean aside from the Democrats criminalizing Reagan's administration after they found a way to compensate for such Democrat betrayals -- duping your Iranian buddies into funding the Contras directly?

Either you're an ignoramus or something more nefarious.

[degraves2003]

You still haven't given evidence of any treason.

Yes that democrat congress pulled funding from the Contra who had started kidnapping, torturing, executing civilians, raping women, burning and seizing property of civilians, violating human rights. Not to mention funding them with drug money...

And the last time I check the Reagan administration had 14 people arrested for funding Contra through Iran.

But be proud for supporting human rights violation.

[TylerNull]

Communist Sandanistas engage in "kidnapping, torturing, executing civilians, raping women, burning and seizing property of civilians, violating human rights."

As a devout socialist, you side with them.

[degraves2003]

Again no evidence that any democrat or any American sided with Sandinista and in fact you just name called again. I love how your responses are shrinking by the minute. Maybe you are starting to realize that maybe my argument has basis and is not a function of anybody committing treason. And by the way you believe in socialism to.

Socialist programs that republicans submit too includes: social security, driver's licensing, state police, federal police, schools, public funded university, etc...

[TylerNull]

Again you chant "no evidence" as you ignore the historical record to which I refer.

Yes, your rabid devotion to America's treason party HAS exceeded my interest in chronicling it.

[degraves2003]

What historical record. Just saying democrats supported the Sandinista just because they didn't want to fund the drug dealing Contra is idiotic at best. You have provided no historical evidence and further more all the examples you have given me haven't even pointed to treason. You don't know what treason is. An accusation is not evidence, but continue being ignorant, I have told you what happen and have responded to your inane suggestions of treason with the truth. Deal Wit It.

[leftysergeant]

The Contras were a terrorist organization made up of supporters of the worthless piece of crap Somoza whom the Nicaraugans threw out of the country.

So terrorism is okay when it is support of our commercial interests?

Get a life, Tyler.

[TylerNull]

The Sandanistas were a terrorist organization made up of supporters of the worthless piece of crap Ortega.

The Contras were on America's side; the Sandinistas were on the communist's side; guess who the Democrats sided with.

Democrats & Treason -- Life Partners

[leftysergeant]

Since when has America been on the side of an uneletcted terrorist movement? Ortega overthrew a worthless pile of crap of a dictator. That our right wing loved the thug Somoza had nothing to do with the validity of the Sandinistas. America should never be on the side of supporting murdering vermin like Somoza. The Democrats, if they can be said to have taken a side, sided with the Nicaraguan people. And look who they recently elected President there. Sod off.

[TylerNull]

Reciting the hypocrisy of your pro-communist deceptions again doesn't make them any less repugnant.

With the Ayers-Wright wing in control of the Democrat party, America is increasingly aware, once more, of the adoration you Democrats have for murderous communists and all other enemies of mankind.

If you guys didn't own the teachers labor unions, who churn out a fresh batch of historical illiterates every year, then America wouldn't have to go through this again.

[leftysergeant]

Given a choice between letting another nation chose a Communist regime or imposing a Fascist dirtbag on rthem, a virtuous nation lets them go Communist.

Murder is murder no matter why you do it. Murdering peasants because they will not let us tear out their bean fields to palnt bananas is hardly defensible.

[TylerNull]

"Given a choice between ... a virtuous nation lets them go Communist"

Given a choice between siding with America's enemies, and smearing America's friends as fascists, Democrats will do both.

Treason is treason no matter why you do it.

[leftysergeant]

Don't be such a paranoid barbarian. We are supposed to be a virtuous nation. That means we should not be doing disgusting things like imnposing murderous tyrants on other countries to keep the peasants subserviant to us. If you want to live in that kind of country, go away and find one somewhere else. We are trying to make America a more respectable nation. If we cannot survive without committing mur not deserve to survive.

[TylerNull]

The most murderous tyrants are the communists for which you keep advocating. Clearly, you wouldn't know what is, and what is not, respectable.

Go to where you can service Ortega more directly.

[leftysergeant]

Back off, punk. By your reasoning, Pinochet did less heinous crimes than Hugo Chavez has.

I do not recall any mass murders under Ortega when he drove the Somaza maggots out of office.

BTW, what is Ortega doing for a living these days?

[TylerNull]

Lefty,

You wouldn't know a punk if he posted on YouTube defended treasonous Democats and their communists life-partners like Ortega.

Your inability to recall the mass murders committed by Ortega and his Sandanistas is no more impressive than your other fits of stupor.

[leftysergeant]

When did Ortega carry out mass murders? Are you sure you haven't confused him with Somaza?

[TylerNull]

1980's.

Earlier you pretended to know the history, and now you pose as an ignoramus. Pick one.

Obama's buddy, Daniel Ortega, led the communist Sandanistas against Nicaraguans.

Failing to win any support from the peasants, they were depriving them of food, water, electricity, and the ability to earn a living or to feed themselves.

They slaughtered innocent peasants, burned & stole their crops, destroyed utilities and power lines, and blew up dams.

[leftysergeant]

Ermmm...."fighting against the Nicaraguan's?" He was fighting against the dirtbags that the USMC installed in the 1920s after the campasinos tried to chase our banana planters off the bean fields.

And are you aware whom the Nicaraguans themselvews most recently made President of their nation? Grow up, punk.

[TylerNull]

Iran & North Korea have elections too, "punk".

Nicaragua went through a civil war, as did Vietnam. In each respective case it was ....

Contras & USA vs. Sandanistas & Democrats

S. Vietnam & USA vs. N. Vietnam & Democrats

That isn't my opinion; it's historical fact. Failing to execute ANY Democrats for their treason is why scum like you STILL boast of their betrayals while trying to portray those who oppose your filth as the bad guys.

Abort Democrats -- it's the right CHOICE.

[leftysergeant]

You just proved yourself stupid and useless to civilized society, Tyler. The Nicaraguans voted the Sandinistas and Ortega out once, freely and democraticly, then got tired of Viol;etta Chamora's kissing American butts and voted Ortega back in. Where the hell is your problem with Ortega, other than that you think we are supposed to do all the installing of dictators. Idiots like you are why the GOP is going headlong into the toilet where it belongs. Just be sure Gonzo goes all the way down.

[TylerNull]

Now you're talking about the period well after the civil war ended, not the period I discussed; not the period over which you faked a bout of stupor.

Regarding the current horror, yes, the Democrats and their communist comrades defeated the USA and Contras, and installed a communist government. Again, they keep "voting" for their dear leader in North Korea, too.

No matter how hard you try to convince me you're an imbecile, we both know that you know better.

[leftysergeant]

What the hell made it any of our business who ruled Nicaragua? That we did impose a criminal dynasty on them was the reason there was a war in the first place. We have no right to make war against a nation that is not attacking us. Democrats took the right position, Jelly-brained Reagan was wrong.

[TylerNull]

I never suggested you guys aren't proud of betraying American interests; only that you do so.

The fact that American communists think Reagan was wrong in defending American interests isn't news.

As for interfering in other nations and other people's lives, that's the signature trait of communists and all other sects of socialism. You merely get upset when anyone gets in your way, e.g., Reagan.

[leftysergeant]

How is it in our interests to keep murdering slime like the Somozas in power? Why do you think the Communists rose in the first place? If you impose a disgusting dictator on another country, you give the people of that and other countries to fear and hate you and, if they can find a way, attack you. If all Americans thought like you, we would deserve destruction. You are a minority and, as long as we can keep the country from following your sort down the sewer, we deserve to survive.

[TylerNull]

How is it in our interests to keep murdering slime like Ortega in power? Why do you think those suffering under communists flee to America in the first place?

Your idiocies are just getting stale.

[leftysergeant]

Funny, I haven't heard of any large-scale murders in Nicaragua since Ortega was DEMOCRATICLY elected by the Nicaraguan people after the failure of the puppet government we installed to address the needs of the people. It is no longer our business who they elect. put on your big girl panties and deal with it. Many of the people who fled Cuba were American gangsters and planters who had used the Batista regime to exploit the Cubans and they feared justice.

[TylerNull]

There's nothing funny about communists taking over all forms of media and then pointing to the vacuum of information as if its evidence of their goodness.

Whether in Nicaragua or the USA.

"Putting Money Where Mouths Are: Media Donations Favor DEMs 100-1"

-- Investors Business Daily, 23 July 2008

Democrats & Communists -- Life Partners

[leftysergeant]

Tyler, ask your doctor if Thorazine is right for you.

You are a ranting lunatic and I am through with your punk blather.

[TylerNull]

I'm not questioning your "punk" knowledge of psychotropic drugs, but my observations of the Democrat party's betrayals of America warrants trials and executions, not drugs.

Were you lucid, you would realize as much.

[RonPaulGeorgeRingo]

TylerNull = Karl Rove wearing his mother's pajamas.