Glen Miller, Shot Down Over the Channel

[41stairdivband]

I was the News/Program director of radio station KOCY in Oklahoma City in 1970 when I interviewed the president of a musical instrument company. He told me he helped load Glenn Miller's plane with musical instruments for the trip across the channel and that the plane was accidently shot down by British anti-aircraft fire. I recorded the interview with him and wrote the story. I aired the story on our station and called NBC..they took the feed but never used it on the network....

[spike6060]

i think glenn miller was in the wrong place at the wrong time i think c.b wolfe is the most realistic story i heard

[MrKernig72]

You should have done a bit more research on the subject Glenn Miller (GLENN) was fronting his band touring the American and British bases up to the time he left to fly to France on the 15th December 1944. This could have saved you a lot of heartache.

[GeorgeVreelandHill]

No one really knows what happened to Glenn Miller.

I believe that his plane went down in the English Channel.

Miller's plane was flying over a part of the water that was being used to drop bombs.

The reason for dropping bombs in the water was that the planes could not have bombs in them when they landed.

Thus, one hit Glenn's plane.

George Vreeland Hill

[terryjohn]

@GeorgeVreelandHill Dymchurch- 10 miles off. that where he was last seen by 2 people on the cliff tops.

and saw him crash as Im so told.

[UsGal65]

@GeorgeVreelandHill This is what I've always believed ^^

[SkankDJ]

What actually happened to him? I have always LOVED the music, never done any research to him.

[craigpaul69]

now this i can belive

[thamesbargeart]

I'm researching for a series of Glenn Miller paintings and I don't doubt that what he thinks might have happened - he believes it - trouble is everyone else with a theory believes their own story too. Some are convincing. But on this day (15th Dec. 44) cloudbase was so low (1,200ft - 2,000ft)that he would have seen clearly the star and bars on the silver (not green) Noorduyn Norseman that took off from Twinwood, Bedfordshire, UK with Morgan, Baessell and Miller aboard. Feel free to msg me.

[vidmedia]

The way I understand it C.B. was operating a computer control for the guns getting his information from the radar station at Dover. He was in a trailer. The series sounds interesting.

[mitch4895]

The search for the plane has already been done...in the correct place in the jettison zone of the English Channel. No point in looking for it elsewhere as it won't be there. Do the research on the bomber incident and you will change your views, or just view the DVD ...have you seen it? The bomber research is mainly done by Roy Nesbit, a top RAF researcher in UK, and is based on many peoples' evidence, not just one story from an elderly veteran. You mentioned WMDs? What was that about?

[mitch4895]

On a positive note, I am confident that CB has no cause or reason to worry, or feel guilty, about any involvement in Miller's death. No doubt on that. So, he should enjoy his time with a clear conscience and some good memories! Genuine best wishes to a WW2 veteran.

[vidmedia]

Right on brother!

[mitch4895]

Just out of interest, have you seen the 2002 documentary "Glenn Miller's Last Flight"? It tells the story well, and covers not only the background of Miller's loss, but also the search projects for Miller, starting 1989 through to 90's, again in 2001. Regarding the "cover-up", no-one could seriously believe that in the middle of a World War, a huge conspiracy was hatched to murder Miller because a general preferred traditional marching music to Miller's?! John McEnroe's famous quote applies!

[vidmedia]

What WMD's?

[dwtslvr]

WMD'S are weapons of mass destruction.

[mitch4895]

Vidmedia. Am happy to correspond with you by e-mail over this if you would like more info. Wartime records are very comprehensive, and confirm the facts and timings, which show that CB is totally wrong on his story, regardless of timing confusion on his part. The "Bomber Theory" (which most researchers think is 99.999% what happened)resurfaced again in the late 1980's and I met and conversed with the crew at that time. Subsequent searches we did then culminated in the 2002 documentary. (More)

[vidmedia]

Records are only as good as the person or persons recording. E-mail would be great I just have a hard time with the bomber theory. I'll look for the doc.

[mitch4895]

CB's comments about the weather on Dec 15th for instance..yes, bad in places, but the Lancs got off OK, but had to abort due to the fighter cover not being able to get airborne due to bad weather at their bases. Miller's aircraft was a Norduyn Norseman C64A, not a Piper Cub. I have copies of all the relevant weather reports of the day, and in the Channel area the weather had cleared. I have no wish to be uncharitable about the book, but I am just stating the facts, which need stating. (More)

[vidmedia]

He has an idea where he thinks the plane is.

[vidmedia]

I found the map where C.B. thinks the plane should be, Do you know where in the Channel you looked?

[mitch4895]

Some of these comments below are written by genuine, credible people, yet the facts inevitably get distorted when the story is retold. As we all know, "Chinese Whispers" frequently happens.Such as the comment about the "Norseman engine block" being found... genuine comment, but incorrect, as it was a Stirling Bomber engine found...I was there. Easy for things to unintentionally get changed when retold...even after just a few years since the documentary was made. (More on next comment).

[vidmedia]

What an opportunity to search for the plane!

[mitch4895]

I understand that, but that does not make the Miller part true. With all due respect, that part is just not true.... as the evidence show. Just out of curiosity, I bought the book and have read the Glenn Miller portion...loads of innacuracies, which I am happy to list for you. As for his analysis of the supposed "cover-up", ...pure fantasy and unsubstantiated ramblings. We all know how "Chinese Whispers" inadvertently distorts the truth, however unintentionally. Will elaborate in next comment.

[vidmedia]

I found his story really interesting and what research I did on the life of C.B. when he got to the coast of France checked out.

[vidmedia]

All I'm saying is that C. B. could have gotten his dates off. I too found a band member who spoke with Glen Miller in Dec. What's compelling for me for me is that C. B. has many stories that check out with the facts.

[mitch4895]

I have only just been told about this site, hence the delay in these postings. I am happy to share our research with anyone interested, just ask. I feel sure that Clarence wrote his book with good intent, but memory can play strange tricks over time, as can unintended misinformation. I note on a comment below about the bombers "not seeing in the dark", but this was a rare aborted daylight raid, hence the bomber crew actually witnessing the crash. The Nesbit book and video/DVD are worth seeing.

[mitch4895]

My comments are based on having been involved in the Miller search project since it was intitiated by Richard Tosaw, an American lawyer, in the late 1980's. The mass of evidence speaks for itself, and the timings work out exactly in favour of the bomber scenario. I personally spoke to the bomber crewmen who witnessed the crash, and I was involved in the actual search in the Channel.You cannot kill someone off over three months before they actually died! Anybody can check the research to confirm.

[mitch4895]

It is wise policy to do your research thoroughly before writing a book such as this. Research and information available very quickly dismiss this story as pure fiction or perhaps memory problems. Glenn Miller was alive and well until December 1944 when he sadly underflew a squadron of Lancs jettisoning bombs in the English Channel...fact. I have a huge file on the subject, and you can read "Failed to Return" by Roy Nesbit, or view the 2002 "Glenn Miller's Last Flight" video. That is factual.

[vidmedia]

Everything he has in his book, C.B. Wolf that is checks out. This video is a reflection of his book. I too found that time issue but felt maybe in the confusion of the war that exact data could have been skewd. The bomber theory is out there as well, in my opinion, that would have had to be one un lucky shot. Even when targeted with intent there was a wide range of error

[wjskyout]

This account was logged in isolation at the time it occurred and is not a retrospective statement,however it could have been any aircraft,not just Millers.If his plane had strayed into the zoned jettison area,then the bomber crews can't be blamed as they wouldn't have seen him in the dark.When the evidence is balanced this seems an equally likely solution to the mystery.For all we know he may have ditched after plain old engine failure,after all,the weather caused the bombers to abort that night

[wjskyout]

It was more like 100000 incendiaries that were jettisoned over the channel that night after an abortive raid on Seigen by 138 Lancasters, however as the man states, all military aircraft, especially RAF bombers were equipped with IFF. It is also more likely they would have jettisoned over the North Sea rather than the channel,however the witness, navigator Fred Shaw had recorded in his logbook at the time that he saw a small single engined aircraft spiral into the sea below.

[hammy1952]

It was not just a single bomber. it was a fighter bomber gruop that was told to drop their bomb loads. Those planes carried multiple bombs. so if a group dropped them all at once, it would probably have been close to a hundred bombs or more falling to the channel.Thus making any plane below them a likely target.

[hammy1952]

Glenn Millers plane was not shot down. The real story was that the bombers were returning from a bombing raid where they had not dropped the payload. Coming back across the english channel they were told to drop their bombs into the channel.One plane crew reported that as they dropped the bombs one of the them struck a small plane that was crossing the channel below them. This news was only released a few months ago.

[vidmedia]

Do you realize how lucky of a shot that would have to be?

[toddehill]

Besides, Miller was lost in December 1944, not September...

[toddehill]

The man's story doesn't line up with events of the time...He could NOT have known the next day that they had shot down Miller...his own BAND didn't know he had never arrived in Paris until five days later - and the military kept it classified longer than that until his widow could be notified...

[loveolrecords]

this maybe ironic but has anybody ever asked sylvia brown bet she,d know

[terryjohn]

was it dymchurch i also heard a divers going down off dymchurch . on radio in 1975 .

[Fireheart228]

*frowns*

Sites I've been on have only said that he disappeared while flying over the English Channel...

[vidmedia]

Do you have any info on the location?

[BCboy65]

Possible, but doubtful. Most credible story is the downing by returning bombers who jettisoned their bombs over a restricted area in the Channel. Miller's plane was in that restricted airspace and was downed by the bombs.

[vidmedia]

I've read about that one. But C.B. stands by his story. Thanks for the comment.

[asparak]

Luftwaffe also claimed to have shot down a Norseman over the channel, in roughly the right part of the channel on that day. Nobody really knows

[odyseus6666]

there are quite alot of Glen Millers, theres one who lives in Nebraska, used to be a dive bomber in the airforce in WWII in the pacific.

[vidmedia]

If you read his book, everything checks out. This is an interesting and  heroic soldier who did his duty and wrote his accounts of it. I found him and his story very interesting. Check the records of his prefromances. I appreciate your comments.

[austinstud69]

Rediculous. He was in the recording studio with Dinah Shore- who knew him from days at RCA Victor/Bluebird records- only seven days after the reported downing here when she was on a USO tour. Oh, and let's not forget the countless performances in person in front of thousands of troops, visits from people he knew stateside, dozens upon dozens of photographs, radio transcription and broadcast dates, etc., that took place between then and 15 December.

[austinstud69]

I listened and watched this several times. Being a bit of a Miller enthusiast and having collected all of his commercially available recordings, I have also done a lot of reading on Miller. I have problems with this report. At least two times, the reporter states the date was September 9, 1944. That's inaccurate. Glenn Miller was lost on December 15, 1944, USA time.

There may be truth in the friendly fire theory but geeze, get the dates right.

[vidmedia]

According to the book, the way it was reported was delayed by 90 days. That was standard porcedure during the war, which would make it about Dec. 9th. It's like Tilman.

[austinstud69]

In other words, it would have been a lie or cover-up that would have been sustained by hundreds, if not thousands of people, a substantial number of which were NON-military.