Picking Medeco m3

[zachlr1]

I'm still uncertain, what's the wire/paperclip looking thing for?

[jkthecjer]

@zachlr1 :

Due to a flaw in the slider design, you can slip a clip behind the body of the m3 slider to defeat it. The bitting for the slider is all about the position of its shelf vs. a step on the key. Therefore just press the slider BODY a fixed amount instead.

It turns out that the clip/slider vuln. really doesn't matter much. I don't even use that clip anymore. Once you defeat the shearline and sidebar, keep tension, and just press the slider. It acts like an "open lock" button.

[zachlr1]

I'm still uncertain, what's the wire/paperclip looking thing for?

[zacthebold]

It's so much easier when you are holding the lock in your hand, I'd really be impressed if you did this while it was on a door.

[jkthecjer]

@zacthebold :

Some people do find it easier to pick in-hand. Others like the locks mounted and find that easier (see the Europen locksport scene for lots of examples). However, mounting a cylinder does not increase its security. Mounting it upside-down and putting a fire ant mound in front of the door might make picking it more akward; but its still the same puzzle. This is especially true when we're talking about high-security locks and their vulnerabilities.

[zacthebold]

@jkthecjer Well I can't speak for anyone else but I certainly find it harder, and it being upside down like you mentioned adds more of a challenge as well. Now that I think about I probably find it more difficult because I am tall and long limbed. Also I have found it much harder to pick in the field than at my house practicing, the presure gets to me and I stumble. What is a fireant mound?

[jkthecjer]

@zacthebold Maybe I can explain this better with an analogy. If I was able to solve a Rubiks Cube in 5 minutes consistently, I'd say thats pretty good. Doing that with large gloves on would certainly be more akward, but not nearly as impressive as the fundamental act of solving the cube itself. This analogy holds especially true when we're talking about high-sec and vulnerabilities.

[Unbox2Review]

This is fake...You cant pick medeco cuz u would have to turn the pins for one of the 6 angles...also slide over the slider to one of it several positions and then the sidebar...This is a setup cylinder

[bouncer965]

Wrong !!!!!!!! Big time.

[Unbox2Review]

Then tell me how to do it cuz im a locksmith....Explain to me the steps in bumping or picking a m3

[bouncer965]

kizza8484 check out his vid it explains how he done it and what he is doing step-by-step. And he guts the lock on cam too.

[pjzstones]

you must be old school

[toadwright]

did you already know the cuts???..that would typically make it easier.....was you're sidebar modified at all???...any slider or side bar springs missing????....were the pins modified in anyway???......if not....way to be!!.....if it was created by man...it shall defeated by man

[irukandji666]

proving that the 216 different obsolete variations you can do with the angles, depts, and placements, not only is this luck, it is one in a few million. unless you put that lock together you will never know if there is a side bar, or the correct manufacters pins...yet alone medeco used to make standard keying systems that just ran on depth alone! THE ONLY POSSIBILITY OF ACTUALLY DOING THIS IS A FOUNDATION OF MASTER KEYING. WHICH REQUIRES PINS THAT DONT RELY ON ANGLES TO BE MATCHED.

[irukandji666]

this is fake or someshit. I AM A LOCKSMITH! THESE locks are practically impossible to pick, drill and etc. THE REAL PINS that should be in there should be on ANGLES. yes not only are they associated with the depths of the key, but ANGLES (3 different choices), and a possibility of 12 different individual placements for the cut itself..... yet alone a side bar to build the actual physical pressure of turning and retaining the pins in the actual positions

[wheelin02]

Again Total bullshit this lock has standard pins without the sidebar.

[jkthecjer]

Incorrect, look at the video response I made for a breakdown after picking. Also the director of research at Medeco didn't think it was bullshit when he witnessed me doing this and improved the locks in response. Give a google for "jon king medeco" or something similar.

[seadoo42]

the side bar has for sure been removed from this cylinder, theres no way, i like to see you pick the cylinder and completely dissassembled and the teeth on the side bar clearly visable. If the teeth have been tampered in any way the cylinder can be manipulated.

[Brute4rce]

I believe it, very well done! The highest security locks I've opened so far have been the abus diskus 24-70 and the brinks r-70. been picking for about 8 months or so

[clodester]

Does the M3 use the biaxle system? or Are they regular cut pins?

[jkthecjer]

You got it :-)

I typically do it the other way around (picking it normally and then align the pins with a medecoder). You can choose which action must happen first by changing the direction of tension (shear line first = clockwise typically, sidebar/alignment first = counter-clockwise).

To see how this process works on an assembled Medeco, check out my Medecoder Demonstration video. That should clear up any confusion about actually using the thing in practice.

[jkthecjer]

Hey there :-) Your locksmith is wrong; I have found that locksmiths (especially veteran lockies) are stubborn when it comes to this sort of thing. When some young whippersnapper suggests it can be done; they don't believe it. I noticed that you favorited one of my Medecoder videos; that tool is proof-positive that these things can be opened. Maxum uses the same mech. and is just as pickable. Anywho, the company has watched me pick these things and confirmed in writing that I'm legit.

[dropingates]

I hope you got the $10,000 they offer to anybody that can pick one of their locks in front of them.

[WaffleMaster4]

that must be an old version of the m3. the newer ones use arx pins so a medecoder will not work

[jkthecjer]

This is not a Medecoder (close though). Also, this video was made before I built the first Medecoder. This was long before I met with Medeco and they reimplemented ARX.

[pinhead1304]

very well done 5*

[bigkrisp]

Change your camera angle next time. Don't believe it! Need to see cylinder at all time not your hands making the switch.

[jkthecjer]

Check out the video response, I refilmed it when another doubting thomas like yourself claimed "faek!" This is real and not even that big of a deal anymore.

[reallytrueman]

I went to a store to buy a high security padlock and I was told that Medeco m3 is a good lock that noone can open by picking or bumping. However, as your video shows its very easy to open the Medeco m3 padlock. The Medeco m3 padlock has different cylinders. Do you know what Medeco m3 padlock (ie. what type of cylinder) is good against picking and bumping or do you know any other good padlocks?

[jkthecjer]

I wouldn't say that any Medeco is "easy", but recent advances by myself and others (Marc Tobias and Toby Bluzmanis, particularly) have shown that the security of these locks does not match their reputation.

However, the odds of someone picking your m3 padlock to get at your stuff are absurdly close to zero. If I had to recommend a more secure padlock than Medeco, I'd go with Bilock or Abloy Protec.

[reallytrueman]

Thanks. Do you know anything about NABOB high security locks (superior quality telescopic pin system). How secure are they?

[douro20]

These things resist picking like no other pin cylinder out there; you just have to give credit to the people back in the 1940s who started the research into bi-axial pin locks.

[lockmaster702]

if that was real i have never seen or heard in my years of being a locksmith i picked medeco verry nice... lockmaster 702

[compromizer]

Very impressive. Kudos man. I just bought a couple medeco locks online, I actually took a class on them and know the ins and outs as I have already played around with these. Are you using a variant of the medecoder to rotate the pins? I have found the article on it but nothing that tell you how to make one or buy one online. Looks not too difficult to make, any input?

[Jc3intelligent]

oh boy, what a pain in the ass that must be to put all the top pins back into the bible, wish i knew how to do that

[jkthecjer]

Well, with Medeco, you can just unscrew the little grub screws on the top of the pin stacks (very convenient). For other locks that dont have these, you just use a plug follower and insert the stacks one and time while advancing the plug to hold them in place. After you have inserted all of the stacks, use the loaded plug to push the follower out and take its place :-)

[Jc3intelligent]

oh. ok thanks man. i got like 5 locks that i gutted and the plug follower slipped or i moved it too far. so thanks, this is gunna help a lot.

[popupwool]

The old switcheroo at 02:52

[jkthecjer]

Sorry, my firend, there was no switching involved. Check out my video response to it; I refilmed to clear up any confusion as to the authenticity.

[RayAir1]

Nice work. How can you stand lp101?

[kizza8484]

Amazing stuff. Deserves much respect! I'm waiting on my m3 cyclinder to come all the way from the states.

Jkthecjer, now that the medeco has been de-listed as advanced on lp101, any chance you'll be re-posting the info you mentioned in the standard section?

Cheers

kizza8484

[chieflittlehorse]

After doing a bit of research I do believe they can be picked! But you must understand how hard it is to believe unless your actually an eye-witness! So no hard feelings... I do wish you would write a book on picking though! I'd buy it!

[chieflittlehorse]

Blah Blah

[jkthecjer]

Alrighty, I refilmed and made it a video response to this one. Look up and check it out. Hopefully this will clear up any suspicion. If not; oh well i suppose.

[PostingAnonymously]

Psst! Chieflittlehorse, your ignorance is showing. Although in fairness, it's hard to blame you since I find plenty of other locksmiths who have the same attitude as you. I'm also a locksmith and I have two different factory certifications for servicing medeco locks, both of which have been updated within the past year. Medeco locks are excellent, but they are pickable. It's just not easy to pick them as it is to pick many other locks. I've picked them and I know others who have also.

[chieflittlehorse]

I guess if you want to believe you picked this lock then that'll be fine with me! But the security industry knows better and the locksmiths know what's real and what isn't. But film it again if you'd like.

[jkthecjer]

Lol, I have opened Medeco classic, biaxial, and m3 literally 100s of times. Honestly it doesn't bother me in the least if you refuse to believe that its possible. Also, I find that locksmiths are typically less knowledgable about high-sec cylinders than the dedicated hobbyists (esp in regard to bleeding-edge picking techniques and tools). But seriously, open your mind a little. I am far from the first/only person that has picked these locks.

[jkthecjer]

Also be advised that I have been working on almost nothing but Medeco since November '07.

PS: I did go after the Assa Twin for a short time, but only managed to open my v-10 fully pinned one time (luck perhaps).

[chieflittlehorse]

Yeah, film it again, this time have a mirror behind the lock so their will be no cheating. A 3 way mirror if you have one. That's what magicians use to practice thier sleight of hand tricks. Your video leaves doubt in my mind. Or enter a picking contest to prove yourself to us!

[jkthecjer]

When I get some time (maybe today we'll see), I'll refilm. I don't have a little hand mirror or anything and I don't think I could get the angle you're looking for without one. But even if I did, its a little silly to resort to putting a mirror behind the lock to "prove yourself". I think I'm well beyond that point as far as Medeco is concerned. But, I'll refilm anyway (and find my plug follower faster :-)).

PS: I picked during the contest at Defcon last year...did horrible :-)

[chieflittlehorse]

I see your a sleight of hand artist! Nice try bud!

[jkthecjer]

Lol I find it sort of flattering that some people still don't believe it. I'm pretty sure you're referring to the moment in the video when my hand obscures the lock. I assure you, I don't swap out or anything; if you guys really really want it, I can refilm. Also, I saw that you sent me a message, but I'm getting that "Oops can't contact server message", try emailing me.

[chieflittlehorse]

OK, if you'd like, I have a contact from Medeco, if you want to pick the lock in front of him I can arrange it for you.

He taught the Medeco Biaxial class.

[mkultra2300]

Awesome work. I want to see you manipulate an Abloy Protec cylinder as your next feat.

[Phibins]

i love your video game man!!!

but i suck at it :(

[shakee25]

well all in all awsome video

[wrrider128]

that is insane dude!!!! cant wait to see more

[ModeraDour]

Fuckin respect. Nice.

[rbolo29]

Nice job.

The security rating isn't to stop everywhere. It's to allow enough time to for the attacker to either give up, get caught or for someone to dial 911.

Another video says, the security rating on the Medeco M3 is to stop an attacker for 10 to 15 minutes. Obviously, they didn't take into account someone buying a similiar lock and practicing.

[jkthecjer]

The "ratings" are the high-security lock standards UL437 and ANSI 156.30. The test does take into account practicing on a similar lock (unless the ALOA locksmiths chosen for testing just personally chose not to practice Medeco at all which is pretty likely). Among other things, the standards test picking resistance and the lock must not be picked within 10 minutes (UL437) or 15 minutes (ANSI 156.30). None of this has anything to do with the video, but I'm bored :-)

[jkthecjer]

Oh yeah, I forgot to say thanks :-)

[shakee25]

awsome video

[ursusarctosuk]

I know how it works and I thought of it a long time ago it's just that I thought it wouldn't work so I didn't bother to try lol.

[jkthecjer]

Well let me assure you that this technique requires a bit more than just a "try". It takes a lot of practice to do it this way. I suggest that if you do decide to try it, do not give up! Anyway, I have since evolved this into a decoder-pick which makes most Medeco sidebars relatively simple to pick.

[statiztic29]

The only thing is when the lock goes out of site... a swap could have been done.

[jkthecjer]

You're right, I actually planned that losing of my plug follower as a clever diversionary tactic meant to trick you. I wish I had two m3s; I lost the slider spring to this one.

[apexaddicted]

Nice, bro. Sharpy marker, huh? never thought of it :)

-Rob aka Emrys

[Lockylew]

very nice dude, don't know if you now but the white house uses medeco's :)

[ursusarctosuk]

Pick proof My ass, Yeah You picked it and you proved it, Nice work there plus you proved that you didn't cheat.

[jkthecjer]

Thanks! The last tool is indeed homemade and quite easy to make. For the moment I choose not to discuss the technique/tool in public forums, but you can likely guess how that tool works after some thought.

[bruno2260]

Wow! Great picking, and nice use of the sharpie.

What was the last tool called, was it home made or where did you get it, Peterson maybe?