what fn navy you with? the hell we don't put boats in the water to save people if the helo's can't , as for the landing ya he screwed up(what they teaching at peensy/) any way ya he shoulda ejected he the co pilot the radio man and navagator there are 4 ejection seats in the Sky warrior or if you like the B66 wich is what she is a small(small??) bomberwe had them at Rota Spain as kca3's they should a tryed to resque them or recover bodys
There is one man to blame for this. Terry TBone Hanson. He was the skipper at this time and was on board when this happened. This pilot had just been thrown off another ship and Terry brought him back to Rota and bounced him a couple of times then sent him back out to risk the lives of members of his squadron. When this happened the crew wanted to jump instead of trying again. Terry gave them a direct order to try gain with no gas left. They obeyed the order and a good friend of mine is dead
There is one man to blame for this. Terry TBone Hanson. He was the skipper at this time and was on board when this happened. This pilot had just been thrown off another ship and Terry brought him back to Rota and bounced him a couple of times then sent him back out to risk the lives of members of his squadron. When this happened the crew wanted to jump instead of trying again. Terry gave them a direct order to try gain with no gas left. They obeyed the order and a good friend of mine is dead.
There is one man to blame for this. Terry TBone Hanson. He was the skipper at this time and was on board when this happened. This pilot had just been thrown off another ship and Terry brought him back to Rota and bounced him a couple of times then sent him back out to risk the lives of members of his squadron. When this happened the crew wanted to jump instead of trying again. Terry gave them a direct order to try gain with no gas left. They obeyed the order and a good friend of mine is dead.
the plane was simply running out of fuel , and if both alert refueling aircraft were actually ready then this would not ever happened , the first ones drone did not eject and the second refueller was burried on the bow , hence=, flight deck coordinater error .,shame on the whole operation and a big shame on a government coverup.. again
there is always a refueling plane some where in the med , navy or airforce if rota couldn't launch 1 madrid could of or even the spanish airforce they had tankers there old kc97's with 4 trurring and 2 burning, wehave bases in turky we have the med covered refueling should not have been a problem
Part 3: This decision (not to put rescue personnel in the water) was made after seeing what was in the debris left on the flight deck: apparently, there was major damage to the crew compartment. In the end, it was a horrible night for all of us. attaching a bunch of conspiracy theory to this incident does not honor the memory of the crew of Ranger 12. There is a memorial to the crew at Fort Meade. I'd say the speculation surrounding this incident just needs to be put to rest.
@boodaddy3 you must be a reletive of the air boss or flight deck coordinater... i was on that deck, hello, airman kendall of vf 84 line division , you should know that they tried for hours trying to get their fucking computers and top secret equipment out of that aircraft , and flat left the fucking bodies, the intel on that jet to them was worth 100 times the cost of those airmans lives. and it wouldnt have been a cover up for just the lives of sailors , want more nimitz horror stories
@STIKEMJIM they coulda attached a bouy and recovered the bodys with 7 people abord had to be some one that survived the crash, still say they shoulda tryed
Part 2: I've talked to several high-ranking individuals who were closely involved in this situation over the years, and the general consensus is that it was pilot error. The reason no rescue crewmen were put into the water was that there was no movement on the plane, and the decision was made not to endanger rescue crewmen unless there was movement seen on the aircraft. The concern was that the plane would sink and take more people with it.
I worked Nimitz Arresting Gear when this happened. The pilot was given a choice whether to try another landing, or gain altitude & bail out. It was decided to try landing. (The A3's had a horrible rep for bail-out survivability, IIRC.) Also, our barricade was not high enough; we were missing an adapter to needed for final tensioning. Hand-cranking the barricade to final height is a cast iron bitch. Even though it was low, the pilot still came in too high. (To be continued...)
there was one other emergency refueling jet ( the news doesnt know about as far as i see),it was chained down on the bow burried by 25+ chained down aircraft... i was a line division plane captain for VF 84 and assisted the crew on the deck with the deployment of barricade. this was not the only accident that i witnessed, a man blown off deck with appx 90 lbs of tie down chains on back, A7 vanishes in heavy fog , man cut down by prop arc of E2C skyhawk, 20 min later- back to flight ops
Hard copy? Hard Headed Dumbasses. You people know nothing about carrier ops. A barricade landing is not a "gentle stop" PILOT ERROR period. If the crew had gotten out they would have been picked up. You don't put boats into the water to pick people up. Civilian dumbasses.
If it was pilot error, as so many people have commented, why was this video held back by the Pentagon?? Also, yes the helicopter couldn't have really done anything, However all ships have rescue boats that can be deployed in the event of a man overboard, which could have been used. Your American officials prevented the rescue of 7 men and kept their deaths a secret for 8 years...pathetic!! So much for "Land of the Free" when families can't even be told the truth of the fate of their loved ones.
So um... what's the helicopter crew supposed to do? Jump down and rip the plane apart, take out 7 men out in 9 minutes? Sounds perfectly feasible right? For superman.
I don't get former crewmwmber Peter Valinske's comments about never seeing the barricade go up before. As flight deck crew, you practice rigging the barricade on a regular basis. And by his other comments, he sounded like he was someone who worked on deck, not flight crew only. Also the Hard Copy info about the barricade providing a soft landing is misleading. Then again, as others have mentioned, it is (was) Hard Copy. This whole story about a cover up is a total crock.
You know shipmates, I remember taking the oath and the part pertaining to protect from all threats foreign and "domestic" stick out in my mind. Are we that expendable? Not leaving anyone behind, the core values, those in the position of power need to follow the same guide lines we do.
A-3s dont come with ejection seats, and despite the problem with the rigging of the barricade, it appears the aircraft came over the ramp too high to make a succesfull trap. Also, Navy Rescue Swimmers are not trained or qualified to enter a sinking aircraft to rescue someone. I went through Rescue Swimmer School a month after this happened, and we were told that was not an option. A rescuer could actuate the escape hatch release handle in the aft canopy and assist survivors out. Tragic.
I was there - below deck - watching on closed circuit TV.... when the plane hit the deck it was like a million fingernails on a blackboard.... then the plane skidded off the deck & into the water... we went to a back emergency - but you just don't stop a carrier on a dime..... about 7-10 sec later there was a thud as we side swiped the floating plane... we ran up to the hangar deck.....
the plane was floating in the water but was also filling with water.... water in the cockpit was red..... copter was hovering directly overhead about 50 feet or so.... frogman was dangling from a cable.... spotlights lit up the night..... remember being amazed at how long the plane stayed afloat.... but then it just sank... and it was the most surreal moment i have ever had in my life....
there were seven guys on that plane - going down with it.... our guys were right there.... it seemed like we definitely could have done something..... my mom sent me a newspaper clipping from the Associated Press.... a couple of paragraphs that eneded with the words "A search for surviving crewmembers is still ongoing".... I remember being very upset.... search? - there was no search.... there was no need to search... I never knew this made the news 10 yrs later...
The pilot radioed the CO to have his crew to eject because of his low fuel state. Those of you who know nothing about flying the plane has different flight characteristics when empty on fuel and the pilot was following NATOPS . There was no refueling ship in the air. One of the hardest landings on a carrier is at midnight in bad weather. The guy is a hero with bad carrier luck but not a failure. I talked with him every day in flight school and you was the coolest guys I knew back then.
@charlougas EA-3B does not have ejection seats. You either bailout at the proper altitude (preferred) or ditch the aircraft in the water (not preferred) and take your chances either way.
Im am not sure you can call the pilot a Rookie when he had the highest grades in officer candidate school and flight school and was cleared to fly the F14 back then. He was pushed into the A3 for various reasons. The fact is the barracade net was deployed wrong and had a large sag in the middle so it could not capture the A3 wings. This is why it is a so called coverup and Hardcopy is correct .
This was indeed a tragic loss of the aircrew. But the accident was bottom line - pilot error. Look closely at the video and you will see that the pilot elected to leave the aircraft speedbrakes RETRACTED during his final approach. This is not standard procedure, and carrier pilots do not train to shoot approaches like this. This configuration only added to further rattle the pilot and confuse the LSO's as to why his aircraft was not coming down the glideslope like it should have been. Tragic.
I was in the reserves with someone who was on deck when that happened. He mentioned it was a rookie pilot. We called the A-3 "Whales" because of their size and the way they landed. They almost always bounced and looked out of control. Those planes are from the late 50's. Our ACHO described they had the old "steering wheel" type controls instead of a joystick. And the only way out of the aircraft was the same way you went in: a door on the belly of the plane under the cockpit.
That version of the jet was a EA-3 Sky Warrior. The A3s never had ejection seats. The USAF flew a similar aircraft that did, the B66 and also had a electronic intelligence version called the EB-66. The older A-3D was joking called All Three Dead because of the lack of ejectionseats. The EA-3s were replaced in 1990 by special versions of the S-3 Viking.
there is no ejection but bail-out procedures. Something like abandoning plane. Pilot asked for permission to bailout after five failed attempt (and getting low on fuel) but this was not approved. So he tried the sixth time and this happened. So bail-out migh have been saved the crew.
I was on the Nimitz when this happened it was a tragic thing! I was a young man then,and still remember it like it was yesterday!
rhysmichaels 2 months ago
what fn navy you with? the hell we don't put boats in the water to save people if the helo's can't , as for the landing ya he screwed up(what they teaching at peensy/) any way ya he shoulda ejected he the co pilot the radio man and navagator there are 4 ejection seats in the Sky warrior or if you like the B66 wich is what she is a small(small??) bomberwe had them at Rota Spain as kca3's they should a tryed to resque them or recover bodys
Kasatome 3 months ago
what if what if... what if someone threw a brick into your face you rag reporter!
mark44004 5 months ago
Yellow journalism, Bruckner has a history of tabloid trash reporting along with Hard Copy's trash program.
Postie218 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
There is one man to blame for this. Terry TBone Hanson. He was the skipper at this time and was on board when this happened. This pilot had just been thrown off another ship and Terry brought him back to Rota and bounced him a couple of times then sent him back out to risk the lives of members of his squadron. When this happened the crew wanted to jump instead of trying again. Terry gave them a direct order to try gain with no gas left. They obeyed the order and a good friend of mine is dead
Pattaya7291 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
There is one man to blame for this. Terry TBone Hanson. He was the skipper at this time and was on board when this happened. This pilot had just been thrown off another ship and Terry brought him back to Rota and bounced him a couple of times then sent him back out to risk the lives of members of his squadron. When this happened the crew wanted to jump instead of trying again. Terry gave them a direct order to try gain with no gas left. They obeyed the order and a good friend of mine is dead.
Pattaya7291 6 months ago
There is one man to blame for this. Terry TBone Hanson. He was the skipper at this time and was on board when this happened. This pilot had just been thrown off another ship and Terry brought him back to Rota and bounced him a couple of times then sent him back out to risk the lives of members of his squadron. When this happened the crew wanted to jump instead of trying again. Terry gave them a direct order to try gain with no gas left. They obeyed the order and a good friend of mine is dead.
Pattaya7291 6 months ago
the plane was simply running out of fuel , and if both alert refueling aircraft were actually ready then this would not ever happened , the first ones drone did not eject and the second refueller was burried on the bow , hence=, flight deck coordinater error .,shame on the whole operation and a big shame on a government coverup.. again
STIKEMJIM 11 months ago 2
there is always a refueling plane some where in the med , navy or airforce if rota couldn't launch 1 madrid could of or even the spanish airforce they had tankers there old kc97's with 4 trurring and 2 burning, wehave bases in turky we have the med covered refueling should not have been a problem
Kasatome 3 months ago
Part 3: This decision (not to put rescue personnel in the water) was made after seeing what was in the debris left on the flight deck: apparently, there was major damage to the crew compartment. In the end, it was a horrible night for all of us. attaching a bunch of conspiracy theory to this incident does not honor the memory of the crew of Ranger 12. There is a memorial to the crew at Fort Meade. I'd say the speculation surrounding this incident just needs to be put to rest.
boodaddy3 11 months ago 2
@boodaddy3 you must be a reletive of the air boss or flight deck coordinater... i was on that deck, hello, airman kendall of vf 84 line division , you should know that they tried for hours trying to get their fucking computers and top secret equipment out of that aircraft , and flat left the fucking bodies, the intel on that jet to them was worth 100 times the cost of those airmans lives. and it wouldnt have been a cover up for just the lives of sailors , want more nimitz horror stories
STIKEMJIM 11 months ago
@STIKEMJIM I believe ya.
midsizedwhiteboy 7 months ago
@STIKEMJIM they coulda attached a bouy and recovered the bodys with 7 people abord had to be some one that survived the crash, still say they shoulda tryed
Kasatome 3 months ago
Part 2: I've talked to several high-ranking individuals who were closely involved in this situation over the years, and the general consensus is that it was pilot error. The reason no rescue crewmen were put into the water was that there was no movement on the plane, and the decision was made not to endanger rescue crewmen unless there was movement seen on the aircraft. The concern was that the plane would sink and take more people with it.
boodaddy3 11 months ago
I worked Nimitz Arresting Gear when this happened. The pilot was given a choice whether to try another landing, or gain altitude & bail out. It was decided to try landing. (The A3's had a horrible rep for bail-out survivability, IIRC.) Also, our barricade was not high enough; we were missing an adapter to needed for final tensioning. Hand-cranking the barricade to final height is a cast iron bitch. Even though it was low, the pilot still came in too high. (To be continued...)
boodaddy3 11 months ago
there was one other emergency refueling jet ( the news doesnt know about as far as i see),it was chained down on the bow burried by 25+ chained down aircraft... i was a line division plane captain for VF 84 and assisted the crew on the deck with the deployment of barricade. this was not the only accident that i witnessed, a man blown off deck with appx 90 lbs of tie down chains on back, A7 vanishes in heavy fog , man cut down by prop arc of E2C skyhawk, 20 min later- back to flight ops
STIKEMJIM 11 months ago
Hard copy? Hard Headed Dumbasses. You people know nothing about carrier ops. A barricade landing is not a "gentle stop" PILOT ERROR period. If the crew had gotten out they would have been picked up. You don't put boats into the water to pick people up. Civilian dumbasses.
panzerabwerkanone 1 year ago 2
If it was pilot error, as so many people have commented, why was this video held back by the Pentagon?? Also, yes the helicopter couldn't have really done anything, However all ships have rescue boats that can be deployed in the event of a man overboard, which could have been used. Your American officials prevented the rescue of 7 men and kept their deaths a secret for 8 years...pathetic!! So much for "Land of the Free" when families can't even be told the truth of the fate of their loved ones.
SaphirePhoenix08 1 year ago
So um... what's the helicopter crew supposed to do? Jump down and rip the plane apart, take out 7 men out in 9 minutes? Sounds perfectly feasible right? For superman.
vk45de 1 year ago
I don't think they showed the crash enough !!!!!!!!!!!
macbrack04 1 year ago
Well, that satisfied my daily dosage of BS.
joeairplane79 1 year ago
the landing is 100% pilot error.
tuckaho22 1 year ago
let the plane sink cause nobody has a security clearance to approach it.........that sounds like something the Soviets would do.
ChannelingusIV 1 year ago
We practiced putting up the barricade at least 3 times a day. This is a crock.
dcharles63 1 year ago
I don't get former crewmwmber Peter Valinske's comments about never seeing the barricade go up before. As flight deck crew, you practice rigging the barricade on a regular basis. And by his other comments, he sounded like he was someone who worked on deck, not flight crew only. Also the Hard Copy info about the barricade providing a soft landing is misleading. Then again, as others have mentioned, it is (was) Hard Copy. This whole story about a cover up is a total crock.
yzf600fl 1 year ago
You know shipmates, I remember taking the oath and the part pertaining to protect from all threats foreign and "domestic" stick out in my mind. Are we that expendable? Not leaving anyone behind, the core values, those in the position of power need to follow the same guide lines we do.
JpoidMikeru 1 year ago
28!! times they showed that. It was pilot error.Period.
B17MIKE 2 years ago
A-3s dont come with ejection seats, and despite the problem with the rigging of the barricade, it appears the aircraft came over the ramp too high to make a succesfull trap. Also, Navy Rescue Swimmers are not trained or qualified to enter a sinking aircraft to rescue someone. I went through Rescue Swimmer School a month after this happened, and we were told that was not an option. A rescuer could actuate the escape hatch release handle in the aft canopy and assist survivors out. Tragic.
MrRlars 2 years ago
I was there - below deck - watching on closed circuit TV.... when the plane hit the deck it was like a million fingernails on a blackboard.... then the plane skidded off the deck & into the water... we went to a back emergency - but you just don't stop a carrier on a dime..... about 7-10 sec later there was a thud as we side swiped the floating plane... we ran up to the hangar deck.....
phuubar 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
the plane was floating in the water but was also filling with water.... water in the cockpit was red..... copter was hovering directly overhead about 50 feet or so.... frogman was dangling from a cable.... spotlights lit up the night..... remember being amazed at how long the plane stayed afloat.... but then it just sank... and it was the most surreal moment i have ever had in my life....
phuubar 2 years ago
there were seven guys on that plane - going down with it.... our guys were right there.... it seemed like we definitely could have done something..... my mom sent me a newspaper clipping from the Associated Press.... a couple of paragraphs that eneded with the words "A search for surviving crewmembers is still ongoing".... I remember being very upset.... search? - there was no search.... there was no need to search... I never knew this made the news 10 yrs later...
phuubar 2 years ago
Comment removed
phuubar 2 years ago
Comment removed
phuubar 2 years ago
Landing the A3 was like landing a building on a postage stamp. Those who flew the A3 were probably the NAVYS best pilots bar none.
charlougas 2 years ago
The pilot radioed the CO to have his crew to eject because of his low fuel state. Those of you who know nothing about flying the plane has different flight characteristics when empty on fuel and the pilot was following NATOPS . There was no refueling ship in the air. One of the hardest landings on a carrier is at midnight in bad weather. The guy is a hero with bad carrier luck but not a failure. I talked with him every day in flight school and you was the coolest guys I knew back then.
charlougas 2 years ago
@charlougas EA-3B does not have ejection seats. You either bailout at the proper altitude (preferred) or ditch the aircraft in the water (not preferred) and take your chances either way.
krypdicboy 4 months ago
Im am not sure you can call the pilot a Rookie when he had the highest grades in officer candidate school and flight school and was cleared to fly the F14 back then. He was pushed into the A3 for various reasons. The fact is the barracade net was deployed wrong and had a large sag in the middle so it could not capture the A3 wings. This is why it is a so called coverup and Hardcopy is correct .
charlougas 2 years ago
This was indeed a tragic loss of the aircrew. But the accident was bottom line - pilot error. Look closely at the video and you will see that the pilot elected to leave the aircraft speedbrakes RETRACTED during his final approach. This is not standard procedure, and carrier pilots do not train to shoot approaches like this. This configuration only added to further rattle the pilot and confuse the LSO's as to why his aircraft was not coming down the glideslope like it should have been. Tragic.
xHamfistedx 2 years ago
I was in the reserves with someone who was on deck when that happened. He mentioned it was a rookie pilot. We called the A-3 "Whales" because of their size and the way they landed. They almost always bounced and looked out of control. Those planes are from the late 50's. Our ACHO described they had the old "steering wheel" type controls instead of a joystick. And the only way out of the aircraft was the same way you went in: a door on the belly of the plane under the cockpit.
yzf600fl 2 years ago
any idea why they didn't eject??
munkfish101 3 years ago 2
That version of the jet was a EA-3 Sky Warrior. The A3s never had ejection seats. The USAF flew a similar aircraft that did, the B66 and also had a electronic intelligence version called the EB-66. The older A-3D was joking called All Three Dead because of the lack of ejectionseats. The EA-3s were replaced in 1990 by special versions of the S-3 Viking.
hudge28 3 years ago
thanks for the info hudge28.
munkfish101 3 years ago
there is no ejection but bail-out procedures. Something like abandoning plane. Pilot asked for permission to bailout after five failed attempt (and getting low on fuel) but this was not approved. So he tried the sixth time and this happened. So bail-out migh have been saved the crew.
sanalbey 2 years ago
how do u know that sanalbey?
jaidrofire 2 years ago
i do read books,
sanalbey 2 years ago
A-3 didnt have ejection seats
superhornetfan 2 years ago
yes but there is still a bail-out procedures. which means abandoning the plane without using ejection seats.
sanalbey 2 years ago
can everyone eject out of that plane?
ralexlu 2 years ago
GOD BLESS RICK HERZING AND CREW
HEINRICK1 3 years ago