THE PRINZ EUGEN FILM The Battle of the Denmark Strait

[stevo728822]

Inspite of it's superior build I still reckon the Bismarck got plain lucky hitting the Hood at 17km in just the right spot. 

[romeitofelixito]

I was taking a look at The Loss of HMS Hood, a Re-examination, and things seem more complicated than that. The author, Jurens, states that Hood/POW were not going head to head towards the German ships but rather following a pursuing curve which, he says, was badly executed, as made as a series of straigh lines rather than a continuous curve which put them at a disavantage. In any case, most seem to agree Holland was wrong to make the turn at that precise moment and not later, at a closer range.

[romeitofelixito]

Sorry, my mistake. You must referring to the HMS Rodney, which had all her main firepower in the front. In that case I agree.

[elswick1542]

@romeitofelixito As I understand it Holland wanted to attack bow to bow in the mistaken belief Bis was faster than Hood(probably nothing in it)the ships would have closed at high speed,change of range would have been so high that neither side are going to score many hits,he could then turn to bring all guns on target,this protects Hood from long range fire.Didn't work out.Tovey bow on has 19 guns to 4 easy to do with Bis disabled.My last post was a bit confused.

[romeitofelixito]

@elswick1542 I understand that Holland DID NOT want to attack bow to bow, I think I read that in Kennedy's book. When the ships finally detected each other they were in fact bow to bow, they were coming in opposite directions, but then Holland tried to make the turn to be able to unleash full broadsides and it was at that moment that the BIZ got him. Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm almost sure that is whet kennedy or some autorized author says.

[elswick1542]

@romeitofelixito So many accounts and books about Bismarck and Hood problem is when it comes to Hood no one really knows Hollands true intentions.If he held course for only a few more seconds the the shell would probably have missed.Kennedy s is probably the best book from the British side,my person favourite is Survivors story by Burkhart Mullenheim Reichburg he was 5th gunnery officer on Bismarck.

[romeitofelixito]

@elswick1542 I, for one, believe that those were his intentions. It's just common sense, something that boxers for ex. know well. If you have shorter arms than your opponent you have to get close to him, at your own arms reach, without being hit before that. Your best chances are in close fighting, something as true for battleships as it is for boxers. Holland wasn,t wrong I think, he was just having a bad hair day. And I agree those are the 2 best books on the matter.

[Peter43John]

@romeitofelixito Holland approached Bismarck head on eliminating the use of his rear guns because he knew the dangers of plunging shells from far range: naval artillery differs from army artillery because it has a flater trajectory at close range!- He thought he had closed the range sufficiently to protect the Hood from plunging shells from the Germans when he ordered a sharp turn to deliver a full broadside.....HE WAS WRONG!

[romeitofelixito]

@elswick1542 On more careful reading I got your point so there's no contradiction. That's right: coming bow to bow at full speed would have lessened the chances of direct hits for both sides and the Hood could have also greatly avoided the risks of shells diving on her vulnerable deck. Then it would have turned around to get all her 8 main guns in action. It was a sensible plan; problem is, the BIZ got her right there in the turn. Rodney's 9 frontal guns made a lot of difference too, later

[romeitofelixito]

Bow to bow to maximize power? Sorry, I didn't get that as I understand in such a situation only 4 of the 8, or 10, main guns of a battleship--depending on the case--are available to score hits. Interestingly enough, The Bis got the Hood precisely when Holland was turning the Hood to get it in a situation where it could use all its 8 15'' guns. Another one: in the Ballard docu, Ludovic Kennedy refers to the Bis as being black while the brits are grey and the sea green. The Bis black? Intriguing.

[romeitofelixito]

I have 2 questions, if anybody can answer them. 1) Why both battles took place early in the morning? Were the British ships--the Hood and the POW and then the Rodney and the KGV--waiting in ambush for the Bimarck, to launch their attack in daylight? In the first case I could believe so, but no in the second when were doing all possible to catch her. (Or maybe they could afford to bide their time with a crippled BIS). 2) Why the BIS scored so many hits in the 1st battle and none in the second?

[elswick1542]

@romeitofelixito I will give it ago.First battle Holland on Hood attacked as soon as possible in an attempt to prevent Bis breaking into the Atlantic where it would be more difficult to find.Second battle Tovy on KGV could take his time and attack from the most favourable position for gunnery.Bis scored few hits because the crew were fatigued and the ship was turning,pitching,rolling and yawing unpredictably,also early hits took out the forward turrets and fire control.

[romeitofelixito]

@elswick1542 Thanks for the answers, that's what I thought also. But I don't think that that explains it all as, f.e. the sea was also difficult for the British ships and their crews also overexcited & sleepeless. I think that luck played a BIG role in this whole story. First, the fatal hit on the Hood was one in a 1000 and the torpedo hit on the BIS's rudders 1 in a million. BTW, here you can directly estimate the distance between both ships. (11 secs. from flash to shakes).

[elswick1542]

@romeitofelixito Interesting that Tovey attacked Bis bow to bow to maximise his fire-power,the same tactic that Holland attempted to use but could not pull off.Chance/luck played a large part but its amazing how shells torpedoes etc will invariably hit vulnerability as if attracted.Hoods mags,Bis rudder,POW,s shaft bracket,Arizona s black powder mag for the aircraft catapult!

[admiraldma]

@H114192 What a retarded comment. How the hell would a crew member of PE in WW2 now for certain what ship fired the fatal shot. Just because he says so does not make it correct. He may think that, but that is not concrete evidence. All the experts say that it is possible that both PE or BIS fired the fatal shot, and that it is most likely to be a shot that hit Hoods torpedoes which caused the initial explosion, which set off the main magazine, not a direct hit to the main magazine. 

[papajohnloki]

USS Washington hit IJN Kirishima with at least 9,and possibly as high as 20, 16 inch rounds out of 117 fired.She also scored heavily with her secondary weapons..

[Zebonka]

3:15 these guys are really moving!

[Zebonka]

Fuck yes! Battleships are fucking badass.

[jers59]

@Zebonka Thats why they have been obsolete since 1941

[BobsGrowler69]

@PanglossPuckeredButt And you are a boil on the arse of humanity. But please do carry on.

[Seymour0249]

This is a really "awesome" (in the real sense of the word) video, but are you sure that it is Bismarck during the Battle of the Denmark Straight? I have seen a still photo from PE showing Bismarck firing a broadside at POW and it clearly shows that PE and Bismarck are line astern with PE in the lead by about 1.5 miles. That agrees with the written accounts, but the video shows Bismarck on the photographer's starboard side and almost abeam??

[trent8002003]

Judging from the shell splashes, POW seemed to have shot quite erratically. Lucky she landed 2 fateful hits on the Bismarck.

[elswick1542]

@trent8002003 The splashes may be from Hood AS she fired at PE and got close.Its hard to tell when Hood explodes IIR POW scored 3 hits one did no real damage 3 from about 54 shots.Bismarck gets about 6 from 93 but it could have as few as 4 as its not known how many hits were scored on Hood it was 3 on POW surprising that overall the number of hits was so low.

[trent8002003]

@elswick1542 I read quite a few sources on the battle and all of them seem to attribute the splashes we saw in the clip between PU and Bis as well as ahead of Bis were from POW. The sources apparently made that claim on the basis that those splashes occured after Hood had blown up. I agree the overall no of hits were not high. But that's only normal. Battle experiences thru out the war showed that 3% hits out of total shells fired should be considered gd.

[elswick1542]

@trent8002003 IIR Campbell in Jutland an analysis of the fighting claims 10% for Iron Duke and that's about the highest I have ever come across but fairly close range,3 sounds about right.

[trent8002003]

@elswick1542 Iron Duke was a crack shooter at Jutland indeed. 7 hits in 7 mins. I don't remember whether Campbell crowned her the champion shooter (or was it Valiant?) but she must be right up there with the best on the British side.

[jimmywrangles]

@elswick1542 HMS Hood explodes at 3:30 I've seen this footage before and that's the smoke from Hood as she sinks, Initialy POW and Hood thought Prince Eugen was the Bismark so all fire was directed at her but they corrected that mistake shortly before hood was hit.

There is still some doubt as to whether PE or Bismarck fired the fatal shot and unfortunately we'll never know.

RIP to all who died in the Denmark straight that day and during the ensuing chase.

Thanks for the upload.

[elswick1542]

@jimmywrangles Hood looks like its down by 3.30 and all you can see is smoke and steam so the splashes could be from Hood given the time of flight.

Back about 96 A guy called Bill Durens worked out the most probable causes given all the relevant data and performance tables his top 3 are.

Shell from B hits 7" mid belt pens deck slope bursts in mag.

2 Shell from B hits under 12" belt as the lower hull is exposed by turn.

3 Shell from PE causes fire spreads to 4" AA mag

Nothing else works.

[jimmywrangles]

@elswick1542 Ted Briggs on the flying bridge reported a fire in the 4" gundeck shortly beforre the exlosion so that fits.

Thanks for the info, very interesting.

[zarquon53]

@elswick1542 As designed and built Hood's secondary battery were the 5.5" anti-destroyer guns , with ammo stowage for the 120 rds per gun that was ample for that task .

The replacement battery of twin 4" A.A needed hundreds of rounds per gun which could not fit in the old 5.5 Magazine , and so the stuff was stacked all around there , including around the 15" barbettes .

Overweight already , no extra armour

Asking for it really .

The mods are on the big plan in the NMN at Woolwich .

[elswick1542]

@zarquon53 on another video I made about Hood there is a very interesting picture of a twin 4" gun firing with shells and empty cases seemingly rolling around the deck.

[MaxxAue]

whoever put this video here made a great job ! thanx !!

[LYinKansas]

i had no idea actual combat footage existed besides pictures, how did you find this?!

[elswick1542]

@LYinKansas Years ago a link existed to this on the Hood web site but it was removed.Took me a long time find it again turned out I had saved it on an old computer some time about 2001 only set it up to back up some photos.

[LYinKansas]

@elswick1542 I've only seen stills up until now, just knowing its part of the actual film... incredible. Ynow people like you and I should team up, start an association, and save the Prinz Eugen it's the only retreivable link left of one of the greatest engagements in history.

We'd be fkn famous dude!

[elswick1542]

@LYinKansas Difficult job! think one of the PE screws is on display at Labo and IIR the POW,s bell was recovered a few years ago.It may still be slightly radioactive.One of few shallow wrecks thats not a war grave bit expensive for me though.

[LYinKansas]

@elswick1542 Isnt a man here that wouldn't throw a $10 bill at seeing Eugen raised. They did it in Pearl, they did it with the Seeburg, and we can do this. I bet I could secure the funds I have a way I'm magical like that. Have to hire that boat that pulled Kursk off the bottom maybe? Maybe just a crane barge could do the job. Have to make a website and start some youtube vids of it PrinzEA channel.

I don't think -I know- we can make this reality.

[G777GUN]

The both of them did somthing in WW2 that would have been dabated for many years if it never happened. Would Bismarck (BB) and Prinz Eugen (HC) beat Hood (BC) and POW (BB)? The answer is yes. Ofcourse we all know that happened. Both crew fought bravely in battle and I am glad to call the ships in the enagement as TRUE battleships. Bismarck went up against 1 old and 1 new ship < Look how I say NEW. Wheras the US went against older ships with their BBs and outnumbered them.

[jers59]

@G777GUN Wrong the US put destroyers up against battleships Laffey against Hiei at Guadalcanal, Fletcher class destroyers and DE,s against Yamato, Kongo, Haruna, Nagato and heavy cruisers at Samar 1944, Destroyer Melvin sinking Fuso at Surigao, BB West Virginia hitting Yamashiro with its first salvo at night from 22.800+ yards Give me 1 example where destroyers went up against BB,s and heavy cruisers in the atlantic? Bismarck was obsolete on drawing board built to WW1 design

[iroscoe]

@jers59 I can think of three occasions Ardent and Acasta versus Scharnhorst and Gneisenau,Glowworm versus Admiral Hipper, though i would concur with the overall thrust of your point the scale and intensity of the naval conflict in the Pacific was generally greater than the Atlantic and Med .

[jers59]

@iroscoe Also Gneisenau was torpedoed latter on by sub when it was escorting the Scharnhorst after it was torpedoed by destroyer

[jers59]

@G777GUN The IJN was best axis navy by far in WW2 was head and shoulders above the kriegsmarine they had carriers and best carrier pilots in 1941-42 the kriegsmarine that could not put 1 carrier into service they built 1 of only 2 classes of super battleships the Yasmato class the Iowas being the other, kriegsmarine built obsolete bismarck and tirpitz IJN heavy and light cruisers, destroyers the best the axis had in WW2 they were best at night fighting and would fight to death

[jers59]

@LYinKansas Are you for real PE is wreck thsat has been under water for 65 years up side down as soon as you touch it the wreck will come apart There is reason its called wreck

[666crazytrain1]

thanks alot for posting this ! = ) the footage of the bismarck firing is EPIC ! it is sad that he s at the bottom of the ocean ! what an awesome battleship !

[papajohnloki]

3:31 to 3:39???? Great video.

[pospan84]

@papajohnloki i guess hood is down at that moment

[shathriel]

forgot to say, still a good video of WW2 german ships :)

[shathriel]

one thing that bothers me about this footage is that was'nt the prinz eugen leading the bismark since the british ships opened fire upon her first due to the ships having similar silhouettes plus she would have been closed up for action stations since she too was firing at the hood and prince of wales? plus was'nt the weather during the whole affair quite attrocious?

[elswick1542]

@shathriel Bismarck pulled rapidly ahead of the PE during the battle,weather was bad but the Brit ships were running into the sea spray was obscuring the turret range finders probably didn't look as bad from the PE,also IIR the film was over exposed so it looks lighter than it was.

[notsureyou]

@shathriel

only after bismarcks forward radar was put out of action (due to shell shock... literally) when she fired on Norfolk, the afternoon before the battle of the denmark strait.

[GGBundy]

I've been trying to find this footage for several years and haven't been able to find it. Thanks so much for posting this moment in history!! I appreciate it!!

[elswick1542]

At all a String Bag is an odd aircraft but think modern Helicopter 90MPH is 60MPH faster than Bismarck.

[jers59]

@elswick1542 swordfish were lucky going up against bismarcks poorly trained AA crew, torpedo bomber crews had low life expectancy even if they were flying modern torpedo bomber such as Avenger

[elswick1542]

@jers59 Agree the RAF,S completely modern stressed skin all metal twin engined torpedo bomber fitted with powered gun turrets the Bristol Beaufort had a 18% survival rate per tour of duty as bad as Kamikazes.Few understand what this incident is really about its not about Hood,POW,PE,KGV , Rodney or even Bismarck its really about Victorious and Ark Royal.

[jers59]

@elswick1542 Torpedo bombers were quickly deleted post war some served as ASW aircraft and transports for admirals for early tee off gulf game, bismarcks sinking should have been wake up call about sending BB,s to sea with out air cover but it was quickly forgotting as Pacific proved Torpedo bombers swan song sinking super BB,s Musashi and Yamato in gross over kill. Overlook is incomplete POW badly damaging Bismarck fully comissioned POW maybe different story

[elswick1542]

@jers59 Change Hood for the modernized Renown a crack shot and POW for the worked up KGV both capable of concentration fire as they had the new firecontrol system should be more than enough,better 2 Aircraft carriers no BB/BC,s.

[jers59]

@elswick1542 How soon before some morons on you tube and navweaps leave post that BB,s are needed off third world shit hole like Libya but wasting over $100.000.000 dollars in cruise missiles is not to smart either

[elswick1542]

@jers59 Probably not very long,maybe a better way to suppress the AA system would be anti radiation missiles.

[bv141a]

@jers59 A old fashioned cruiser,Belgrano even,could sit off Tripoli and take it's time emptying1,500 rounds into whatever.Alot cheaper than cruise missles,Think US St Paul,DMZ nam,forget about the NJ hills,a large hole in the same location.shipboard artillery still has it's place.Kenetic railgun on the building DDX would of bein a nice fit for Ghadaffi.

[jers59]

@bv141a B52 dropping lot of Jdams will do the job more effective and cheaper, largest naval gun now is 5 inch unless they bring the old USS Salem back into service. All you need to do to avoid naval gun fire is move your equiptment 25 miles from the shore

[jers59]

@bv141a Forget about the NJ Off Vietnam Heavy cruiser crewmen, St Paul, Newport News, Canberra, Boston wore shirts that had message we have 8 inches printed on them, to NJ showed up with crewmen wearing shirts with we have 16 inchs. St Paul did fire more rounds from her guns then any other ship in history last rounds fired in WW2 and Korea is credited to her.

[bv141a]

@elswick1542 how did the Italians get away with dropping torpedo's from up high,always thought torpedo's had to be dropped low and slow.Those SM 79's on the Pedestal attack for real?Or camera tricks

[elswick1542]

@bv141a Have looked this up before years ago as of now I don,t remember how they did it but it was definitely possible its not camera tricks IIR a type of torpedo designed for Avengers could be dropped from 1000ft or more,Rodney and Nelson countered this by adapting 4.7" AA time fuses to the 6" and 16" HE shells and using them with optic range finders as a long range barrage.

[bv141a]

@elswick1542 The Americans reworked a German sound chasing torpedo,made it smaller for airlaunch,called it "FIDO".The German torp wasn't effective,Fido was deadly against U boats,but small,I don't think it was designed for surface attack.

[bv141a]

@elswick1542 Rodney's 16" AA like IJN "Beehive"shells?Did the Japanese ever shoot down airplanes with their large AA?Did Rodney?.Main battery trained as AA might be good for crew moral,but does it work?

[elswick1542]

@bv141a Seem to remember the IJN shell was filled with incendiary tubes USN pilots said it was spectacular but not effective RN idea used standard HE shore bombardment shells with a time fuse it definitely worked mainly agaist SM-79 even if not shot down the formation was disrupted Nelson fired 16" at Japanise aircraft,special type of radar was developed that triggered the barrage automatically these were fitted on 6" cruisers and probably others.

[elswick1542]

@bv141a Don,t remeber were I read the torpedo info best I can find is the Fiume Whitehead could be dropped from 400ft some versions had a different nose profile that added 2k to the speed this was copied by IJN.USN short MK13 by 1944 could be droped from over 2000ft.

[bv141a]

Given the view at 4:02,Hood a puff of smoke,POW belching smoke from her innerds.What was Lutjens thinking?Bismarck is nearly intact,P.E untouched.He could of finished off a RN capitol ship.and given P.E 's speed,maybe run down Norfolk and Suffolk as well.Did he think he was going to get a better break from the RN?You can build the best weapons,but if the best people don't make it to the top to command those weapons?Nazi gets it from a biplane

[elswick1542]

@bv141a Lutjens and Linderman don,t seem a very good match.Linderman want,s to take the initiative and chase POW Lutjens to follow orders and avoid damage,at that point just after POW turns away neither know the full extent of Bismarck's damage.Once the damage reports come in Lutjens decides to go to France but Linderman wants to stop for temp repairs and transfer of the oil.Linderman in full command in my opinion Bismarck will probable escape at the least

[bv141a]

@elswick1542 Seeing is believing,POW's on the ropes,realativly close,8 miles?,awaiting the knockout,and Lutjens throws the fight.Leaves the hounds on his tale[CA's]and has just enough damage that his earlier screwup of leaving for his mission without topping off his tanks,comes back to bite him.

[elswick1542]

@bv141a Very close IIR an inquiry was started as to why PE didn't launch torpedoes.PE,s hydrophone operators by some account detected torpedoes if true these can only have been launched by Hood. Probably less than 8 miles think it turned away at only about 10000yards maybe less will have to check my books so if B chases POW its in range for a relativity long time with all 4 aft guns out,even if the progressive flooding forces Bismarck slow.Sinking H is a victory with a huge screwup either side.

[bv141a]

@elswick1542 If a allied capital ship had found itself disabled,alone,unable to use weapons to defend itself.Would the ships commander be most concerned about how well he died.Lutjens sends over a thousand young sailors to their grave so HE can look good in the perception of nazi propoganda.Did Bismarck score a single hit with a jammed rudder?IIR no,cann;t steer,cann't hit.I would hope a allied commander would scuttle,abandone ship,try to save his crew.Lutjens and AH are down in hell together

[jers59]

@bv141a Obvious you are lacking in warrior spirit glad you were not captain of one of the destroyers off Samar 1944 bismarck failed to score a hit because it was bad design from weak main battery weak deck and turret armor and unprotected data and comm lines weak stern that fell off the surface poor welding obsolete 3 engines/3 screws and push button steeering. RN sank the bismarck it was wrecked beyond repair, sinking, the RN cruiser torpedos hastened the sinking not the imaginary scuttling

[bv141a]

@jers59 Surrender is not a option,and a Captian should share the fate of his ship,but a good crew shouldn't be thrown away.Taffy's DD's and DE's off Samar died hard,fought to their last.Bismarck without steering ,had no purpose other than target,no defense.U boat bait at best,which didn't help the crews rescue

[jers59]

@bv141a The kriegsmarine seemed to lack warrior spirit from captain of Graf Spee blowing his ship up rather then taking it to sea and do battle the timidness of the Tirpitz, Scharnhorst and Gnesisenau running away from 1 over aged RN BC Renown, I can understand Hitler wanting to scrap the kriegsmarine. I cannot see the kriegsmarine going up against kamikazes

[elswick1542]

@jers59 Twin 37mm AA gun was junk single shot hand loaded slower firing than a single POM POM ,single Bofors had double the firepower 20mm was good fit about 80 in quads and singles then maybe.

[bv141a]

@elswick1542 PE ships 40 mm bofors ,late war,in time for her action against the Finns.I've seen them on b and y turrets,maybe replaced some 37mm twins as well.Swedes sold that gun to everyone

[elswick1542]

@bv141a IIR the PE Bofors were original Norwegian.Some Brit Army guns supplied late 30,s were Swedish,Polish and Hungarian,possibly a few Dutch.First RN gun was copied from a Dutch twin fully stabilized version called the Hazmeyer.

[jers59]

@elswick1542 Have to admire Norweigeans sinking Blucher with 50 year old weapons another kriegmarine screwup that is little known today some excellant video of diving the wreck

[elswick1542]

@jers59 A bit of an own goal the guns were made by Krupp! last time I looked up Blucher it was leaking a fair bit of oil.

[jers59]

@elswick1542 Im sure the blucher is leaking oil its capsized and not flat on botton Ships in atlantic seem to decay much faster then wrecks in pacific ex titanic and bismarck compared to Yorktown off Midway which is mile deeper US oiler sunk in Ulithi in 1944 recently had its tanks drained when they started leaking oil is resold to cover some of the cost Arizona, Utah, and Royal Oak are 2 more time bombs

[elswick1542]

@jers59 Royal Oak was drained a few years ago was leaking steadily.USN had a Superior anti fowling paint to the RN and most other Navies of the time recipe was made under licence late WW2 was about 50% more effective, maybe a factor in deep water preservation.

[jers59]

@elswick1542 I believe the pacific does not have organism that eats metal as you see on titanic turns the metal into something resembling iceicles, 70+ years titanic is rust spot on the bottom, Arizona has estimated 400 to 500 years left in its hull before it decomposes thats if no preservation work is carried out

[elswick1542]

@jers59 Some very strange organisms live in the deep Atlantic near hot vents.Another factor with Titanic was pine wood deck covering no trace can be found but Teak used on warships lasts probably longer than metal.Areas on Bismarck such as the stern and places were the paint burned off also show rusticules like Titanic.

[jers59]

@elswick1542 They have new underwater paint composed of plastic that keeps any creatures from attahing themselves to the hull only museum ships use it I believed they used it on the Intrepid in NYC and Missouri in Pearl Harbor Japs also had round designed to travel under water and hit the hull only sucess that I know was 8 inch version that hit the light cruiser Boise in powder magazine Boise survived some how

[elswick1542]

@jers59 Type 91 diving shell they never got much of a chance to use it,probably normal shells could do the same thing as both POW/Bismarck are hit well under the water line.Can think of 2 other similar examples to Boise IIR SMS Markgraff was hit in the 150mm magazine by Iron Duke water through the entry hole put out the fire,USN cruiser in the Med hit by a FritzX gas vented out the turret roof water through the exit hole put out the fire.

[jers59]

@elswick1542 That was the Savannah same class as Boise all crewmen in 3 forward turrets on both ships were killed, the Savannah never saw post war duty with South American navies as most of her sisters did. Roma was sunk by the same type of guided bomb

[elswick1542]

@jers59 The Brooklins my number 1 Cruiser design of the 30,s.No room to vent on Roma gas becomes flash=end.

[jers59]

@elswick1542 The Brooklyn served until about 1992 in the navy of Chile when it was sold to India for scrap but never reached India sank along the way same as St Louis shame there are only about 1 all gun heavy cruiser and 1 all gun light cruiser left in world and 1 hybrid

[elswick1542]

@jers59 Is the hybrid one of 1950 USN missile conversions?with the big Talos missile.

[jers59]

@elswick1542 Yes the Little Rock in Buffalo New York the Talos and Terrier missiles were obsolete by late 1960,s early 70,s though I think they might have downed some NV aircraft off vietnam, I bele those cruisers were mostly used as gunfire support off vietnam I beleve only survivors are CA, Salem which was used to play the partof the Graf Spee in the movie, CL Belfast and CLG Little Rock

[bv141a]

@jers59 Olympia is for sale down in Philly,want to buy a slightly used 1895 cruiser?I saw her in the 80's she was rough then

[jers59]

@bv141a Forgot about Olympia, however not interested in rust bucket old cruiser I believe the liner United States is for sale nearby in philly navy yard also, should tow the U.S. out to the deep atlantic and sink her maybe near the carrier America which is 3 miles down and sitting up right

[elswick1542]

@jers59 Different era to the Cruisers above but the Greeks have an Italian built armoured cruiser called Georgios Averof looks in good condition,very like an RN pre-Dreadnought.

[jers59]

@elswick1542 Forgot about the greek cruiser moored next to Fletcher class destroyer and Olympic 

[Contrajoe]

@jers59 Speaking of America, is there any footage or pictures of it sinking?

[jers59]

@Contrajoe No it was done in secret Im sure there are photos locked away in some safe in Pentagon only photo was taking after it left surface of the water. Its apprently 3 miles down in deep atlantic in 1 piece. I believe they sank it by using controlled demolitions at the end of the test.

[Contrajoe]

@jers59 Well, is there any information about the sinking available?

[jers59]

@Contrajoe Not much just wiki and USS America association

[elswick1542]

@jers59 British are notorious for this sort of thing,SM-79 Italian bomber used 3 Bristol Jupiter(Swordfish) engins,Zero used Vickers MG,s.WW1 German Battlecruisers had Thorneycroft boilers and Parsons turbines all under licence.

[jers59]

@elswick1542 Allen M sumner class destroyer had more and better AA protection then the bismarck

[elswick1542]

@jers59 5/38,s Bofors Oerlikon with MK37 directors and remote power control an unbeatable combination for the time.

[jers59]

@bv141a Japs lost lot of excellant captains and admirals when they choose to go down with ship. US lost excellant up and coming admiral Mullinex on carrier Liscome Bay when it was torpedoed and blew up was last seen at his desk as the ship was burning and sinking . I believe the second when cold sea water hits them they realized they have made better decisions

[elswick1542]

@bv141a Depends on the time frame the German fight to the end thing is a bit like the proto RN in the Elizabethan age in the Revolutionary/Georgian/Napoleo­nic era the flag is lowered to save lives if resistance is futile ,if a ship fights well and is captured as an honour it retains its original name in Anglicized form.Love the literature set in the time (Hornblower/Aubery Maturin etc)and the surviving ships (Victory/Constitution)Bismarck scored no hits but respect.My opinion how it should be.

[bv141a]

@elswick1542 Nazi dogma would frown on mercy,better 1,000 teenagers drown than plead for rescue.Where do you draw the line between bravery and criminal?Gloworm heroics/Lutjens death wish

[elswick1542]

@bv141a Signal from Lutjens to Hitler to fight to the last shell maybe a factor why they didn't scuttle after the last 15" is knocked out a bit of a mystery was only about 9.30 not much point having shells but no guns.Glowworm can ram. Bismarck can only burn.Don,t think I want to draw that one.

[elswick1542]

@bv141a Most interesting thing about this is what you don,t see.Cameraman is looking at Bismarck firing so misses Hood exploding.Then he pans to see Hoods wreck burning just as POW fires a salvo so misses 3 hits on Bismarck at roughly this time.The hit that scraped the boat deck must have been visible and probably the bow hit also not so sure about the one that hit under the belt.

[NAIAD49]

@bv141a Bismarck got lucky,blows Hood out the water just before Hood opens up all gun arcs.POW, guns all fail but one.Bit of a one sided fight in the end.Bismarck was finished as a raider after one 14" shell through the bows.Next fight with two RN Battleships is just as one sided except the Nazis hit jack shit this time.....then some of her crew fly surrender flags when they know they are finished.........scuttled her as well.

Done in by a 90mph biplane,the most over hyped ship of all time.

[bv141a]

@NAIAD49 Bismarck didn't surrender,the engineroom opened the sea cocks,scutteling,but her guns stayed manned.She was such a wreck it didn't matter who sank her,she was going down,with almost all of her crew.Life rafts recoverd?Boats launched?No one tried to save bismarcks crew,especialy the Germans

[NAIAD49]

@bv141a Some of Bismarcks crew did fly surrender flags and also used signal lamps to offer surrender,that is a fact..................it was seen from British ships involved.....they were probably acting independently from the main command of the ship..........I never said Bismarck surrendered.

[jers59]

@NAIAD49 I agree bismarck and tirpitz are most over hyped war ships ever but you can partly blame Churchill and RN for over hyping the bismarck built to WW1 design, weakest broadside of any modern BB, obsolete incremental armor, single purpose secondary guns could not stop 6 biplanes. USS South Dakota off Santa Cruz 1942 shot down 26 modern jap naval aircraft in 1 battle. Tirpitz fired its gunsat weather station thats it , Bismarck, Graf Spee, Blucher all sunk on first mission

[NAIAD49]

@bv141a Bismarck got lucky,blows Hood out the water just before Hood opens up all gun arcs.POW, guns all fail but one.Bit of a one sided fight in the end.Bismarck was finished as a raider after one 14" shell through the bows.Next fight with two RN Battleships is just as one sided except the Nazis hit jack shit this time.....then some of her crew fly surrender flags when they know they are finished.........scuttled her as well.

Done in by a 90mph biplane,the most over hyped ship of all time.

[NAIAD49]

@bv141a Bismarck got lucky,blows Hood out the water just before Hood opens up all gun arcs.POW, guns all fail but one.Bit of a one sided fight in the end.Bismarck was finished as a raider after one 14" shell through the bows.Next fight with two RN Battleships is just as one sided except the Nazis hit jack shit this time.....then some of her crew fly surrender flags when they know they are finished.........scuttled her as well.

Done in by a 90mph biplane,the most over hyped ship of all time.

[bv141a]

What a great film,thanks Elswick,never seen a seabattle "live" before,cameraman has stones.No bullwarks on Prinz E,no railings either?[folded away]They do things different in Germany.Sailors don't have much protection from waves on the main deck

[elswick1542]

@bv141a Crew protection on deck seems none existent even the 105mm guns have no shields(none of the AA has shields!)

[Basti6814]

wow i´m very impressed

What a amazing video

Thanks mate

keep working

[elswick1542]

@Basti6814 More to come had to cut 5 min so it could be uploaded.First part is ADM Lutjens inspecting the ship.

[seangrie8]

WTF!?

Nice find.

[MrHammership]

GREAT WORK, CONGRATULATIONS.

[ToonandBBfan]

Great footage mate - Thanks

[elswick1542]

@ToonandBBfan Have tried for years to find this film finally succeeded.

[fiercebrett]

this is some amazing footage, especially the shot of Bismarck during the battle of the Denmark Strait. I don't think I've ever before seen actual footage from the deck of a ship during a long range gun engagement, those shell splashes are pretty awe inspiring.