Ahmadi Muslims Debate Sharia Law with One Law for All (Maryam Namazie) at UCL

[JustHuman48]

I don't think the "Islam is spreading" argument really holds any weight when this is happening due to poor family planning or just total rejection of it in favour of "God's will". Easy for men to say "God's will". They cannot comprehend the toll that pregnancy and labour has on a woman's body. The average British Muslim household has four children whereas the rest of the population has two. Kind of explains the rapid increase in Muslim population!

[ritchloui]

Oh the irony of a person who believes in something without any evidence, ie has a subjective opinion that can neither be falsified nor verified in any way, claims an 'objective grounding' and appears to think that the secular notion of human rights based on evidence and reason is not 'objective'.

[ritchloui]

Islamic 'reform' is rather like the man who looks for his keys under a street light and, when someone goes to him to help and he too cannot find them and eventually asks 'Are you sure you dropped them here?' and the man replies, 'No, but at least I can see the ground here'

[ritchloui]

It is quite clear, having read the comments the uploader has approved, that s/he has no integrity and is terrified of the truth; Islam cannot survive the truth as the uploaded clearly knows. Further evidence that Islam is a mafiosi scam. I shall reload this video with comments enabled so that sensible comments are allowed as opposed to the comments from men who would have multiple wives, child brides, the right to beat, maim, stone and behead as per their slaving ideology.

[ritchloui]

It is a vain cry indeed if we in the 21st century are supposed to seriously try and implement the laws and practices of a 7th century man of whom we have only secondary sources in any case. Can't these people think for themselves? Do they really have to rummage around in fragmentary highly ambiguous texts by bronze age desert nomads in order to work out the meaning of justice and human rights? No wonder the Islamic world is a madhouse.

[ritchloui]

Bukhari (6:60:79) - Two people guilty of "illegal intercourse" are brought to Muhammad, who commands that they both be stoned.

Bukhari (83:37) - Adultery is one of three justifications for killing a person, according to Muhammad.

Is the denial of this evidence of lying or ignorance?

Muslim (17:4206) - A woman who became pregnant confesses to Muhammad that she is guilty of adultery. Muhammad allows her to have the child, then has her stoned (the description is graphic).

[ritchloui]

How extraordinary that there was a total denial by everyone in the room that stoning was mandated in the Hadiths. Yet not only was stoning for adultery mandated in the hadiths it was repeated MANY times. Here is one ABSOLUTELY CLEAR mandate for stoning: Ibn Ishaq (970) - "The adulterer must be stoned." These words were a part of Muhammad's farewell address to his people on the occasion of his final pilgrimage to Mecca.

[ritchloui]

Butterworth kept trying to argue that there is something called 'true Shariah'. Well, he is blowing in the wind isn't he because it is obvious that the 'false Shariah' is governing the lives of over 1 billion people. The Middle East, once capable of producing civilisations and great thinkers has not produced a great thinker or scientist of note for 1,000 years; in fact, not since the dhimmis who created the 'Golden Age' were exhausted and crushed under the Islamic jackboot.

[Shehzaadi03]

I just watched this on MTA and I'm glad I found it on youtube so I can share it with everyone! Truly inspiring debate, and gives answers to a lot of questions asked by non-Muslims to Muslims on a daily basis. Great work, keep it up!

[mechatak]

Now also shown by MTA

[dancaeser]

Great Debate. Ahmadiyya presents the real Islam.



[Iammram]

These women make such "emotional" arguments instead of what is and isn't. The 2 men clearly are showing how something isn't through the religion, citing verses and so forth and then the women go into countries ( which then becomes a cultural matter NOT a religious matter )

Completely ignoring that these states, for the most part, are creations of the very country they are speaking from, propped up dictators or leaders, funded by the west to oppress the people to get cheap oil.

Good job guys

[Judipops13]

Legal disputes are for the UK Law Courts. I had to study for 8 years at a cost of £50K to be able to give legal advice in this country. Why can these people adjudicate on legal issues in this country without UK law legal training and having to adhere to the strict rules of the Law Society and codes of legal practice? I would be struck off the roll of solicitors for doing what these Sharia tribunals do.

[venomousvoltage]

basically the two women were saying. it doesnt matter wat the Quran says.wats goin on is wat matters. and therefore the Sharia should be condemed. its just like saying drug abuse is going on and therefore the constitution should be removed..which is totally unacceptable..the world would be hell.. so religion is very important to control humans..

[xXxHS09xXx]

Great debate, however Ms Namazie & Ms Waters should really do their research on what real Islam is. It is a peaceful religion the Quranic teachings are about serving justice, that is the reality of it. It is not a fairly tale as she put it as these correct laws were followed once. It isn't the religion at fault it the people who have become corrupt & implemented these barbaric laws to their liking. We are on same page as you, instead of eradicating Sharia Law we should work as one to improve it.

[AhmadiMuslimForLife]

The two Ahmadi Muslim speakers were excellent. Their points really defended the Truth about Islam and the misconceptions that many people have. One thing that I didn't get was that why did Maryam Namazie not understand the fact that just because countries claim to be implementing the Sharia Law, it does not mean that they are practicing it properly. Culture and Religion are two very different things. But as for the two Ahmadi Muslim speakers, keep it up, it was great!

[AhmadiMuslimForLife]

The two Ahmadi Muslim speakers were excellent. Their points really defended the Truth about Islam and the misconceptions that many people have. One thing that I didn't get was that why did Maryam Namazie not understand the fact that just because countries claim to be implementing the Sharia Law, it does not mean that they are practicing it properly. Culture and Religion are two very different things. But as for the two Ahmadi Muslim speakers, keep it up, it was great!



[AhmadiyyaTrueIslam]

Alhumdolillah.

[leah2704]

can we have this up on MTA? if we havnt done so already.

[thelivingislam]

MASHALLAH! May Allah bless, protect and help these brothers and give them a long blessed and prosperous life spreading the true teachings of Islam. The teachings which unite humanity and break barriers.

OUR ISLAM IS A PEACEFUL ISLAM!

For more info please visit alislam.org

[shaqi1000]

AHMDIYYA ZINDABAD 

[chinahusker07]

You cant discuss religion with Atheists. You just can't......

[rahulr0y1]

I think it's the people (politicians) that are exploiting Shariah that should be the condemned (In Iran, Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia) and not the Shariah. These countries do not practice the correct Shariah Law. Please do not condemn the Ahmadiyya interpretation of Shariah based on the "so called" Shariah provided by Middle Eastern nation. The true Shariah should be derived from the Quran, Hadith and Sunnah.

[beerj1992]

@rahulr0y1 I think you'll find that's because the correct Shariah Law as outlined in the Qu'ran is completely impractical and outdated for a nationwide legal system in the 21st century. The attempts in such places as Iran, Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia to impose Shariah Law are somewhat compromised to a degree that still allows a functioning society, yet causes greater social injustices than in, say, a democratic country's system.Absolute shariah law would be a far worse disaster...

[darkjediMIK]

The one thing I was most glad to see as I have noticed before is that Ahmadis remain calm, consistent, and respectful no matter which way the talk or debate went; I pray all Ahmadis can be that cool under pressure, Inshallah. The 2 women on other hand only raised their voices more and more repeating the same objections which had been answered over and over as if raising their voice would make it work better.

[15hy15]

It is exactly the same when looking at the law system in the western countries. The law was violated a lot and needed to be interprated further for better understanding to avoid injustice and people fought against a law and the law was improved to provide justice. Unbelieveable that although these people studying law do not know how to deal with it; although i understand it is for sure that it is connected to islam and ppl have bad thoughts about it but i hope that this will clarify in future

[15hy15]

Well to all those saying well defended: at the end their point of view did not change so stronger arguments should have been used or better explained - still well done

The thing needed to be mentioned ist that Sharia law is a beautiful law when using the Ahmadiyya interpretation as the Human rights ppl were confirming. So the Sharia law is violated and they should fight against the violation of this law instead of saying that Islam is bad or Sharia law is bad

[nZeesh]

Is there any other sect today other than Ahmadiyya Muslim Community which can defend Islam?

This is the very same as prophesied by Hadhrat Mirza Tahir Ahmad in his poem

Jab dahriat (atheism) k dam se masmoom thein fizaein

phootein thi ja baja jab alhad ki wabaein

Tab aaya ik Munadi aur har taraf sada di

aao k in k zad se Islam ko bachaein

Zor e dua dkhaein! Khuddam e Ahmadiyyat!

[southlondon88]

Ahmadiyyat zindabad. The only true Islam in the world practised today.

[FjordHawk]

I have a question for these emotion driven women.

Where do this 21st century code or standard of values exist referred repeatedly. If they mean UN or EU or UK charters then they have failed even to stop waging unprovoked wars in the name of HR and democracy export & stop discriminating rulings in many EU member countries. Why should we refer such failed things? According to their own stupid & irrational argument one must conclude that these charters negate basic HR not alone women rights.

[atiyaszahmad]

An eye-opening debate! It is time for our non-Ahmadi brothers to appreciate that the Ahmadees have been in the forefront to defend Islam in an absoultely civilized way - and not through violent agitations and protests. As regards, who is Muslim, and who is not; let this be left to Allah, as no Mullahs on the earth in competent to abrogate to themselves the right to deliver judgement on the beliefs of others.

[YahyaAhmadkhan]

Great going MKAUK! I hope we can carry this on and spread the message of true beautiful Islam.

[arshadsaabuk]

Wonderful defence of Islam by Ahmadiyya community UK. Islam ZINDA baad Ahmadiyyat ZINDA baad. Love for all hatred fir none

[1ahmadimuslim]

If the wonderful picture which ahmadis share of Islam is not Islam then what is islam ? Find true islam at alislam org

[1ahmadimuslim]

Wonderful presentation of the true Islamic teachings and beliefs is done by ahmadis. Well done. Its so amazing that non ahmadi friends are debating whether ahmadis are Muslims or not instead of appreciating the fact that ahmadis are presenting true Islam which was needed. True love for Islam would be to appreciate when Islam is being defended against allegations who ever does it ,rather than supporting the cause of non Muslims by saying that ahmadi are not Muslims. If the wonderful pictur

[believer175]

Do you even know what you are talking about we do not believe in a pope we beleive in the true Khilafat. Ahmadiyyat Zindabad!

[Dgenerate01]

None of the panel clearly, objectively, defined what is/isn't human rights. Just as they stated that shariah is down to interpretation, human rights also is down to interpretation.

[Dgenerate01]

Firstly, Qadianis are not Muslim, and therefore have no real authority in stating what is shariah or what isn't shariah- who can deny stoning in the Hadith? And then to call it 'disgusting'? Doing this, is, in essence calling the Quran and Hadith disgusting.

UCLU Islamic Society should have been contacted / UCLU ASHS should have invited true Muslim scholars capable of defending/debating shariah properly.

And I fully agree with the last point the gentleman made at the end. None of the panell

[nasirmirzaii]

@Dgenerate01 We, Ahmadis recite Qalima Shahadah with our hearts. That's enough to be muslims. Do you know it is mentioned in hadith that reciting Qalima is good enough to judge whether muslim or not ? Though you r talking about hadith, you forget about what I ask. Do you know who related the hadith about stoning ?

[nasirmirzaii]

@Dgenerate01 ah, one more thing. Can you point out a single fact presented by Ahmadis in this debate differs from the teaching of Islam ?

[dawah2]

@Dgenerate01 : Today Mullahs & their followers belonging to 72 deviant sects declare that Ahmadis are NOT Muslim AS IF the rest of 72 sects are true Muslims. But they forget that the verdict of our Beloved Prophet (saw) is Totally OPPOSITE to it. He (saw) had DECLARED that ALL the 73 sects are "Hell Bound" Except ONLY ONE.

Be happy on the declaration of Mullahs. We are happy with Declaration of Prophet of Allah.

Watch Ahmadiyya VS Mullah's Brand of Islam {youtube.com/watch?v=fsUYpsi40­yI} 

[believer175]

You truly are a degenerate. Who are you to decide about who is Muslim and who is not as the holy prophet Muhammad(pbuh) said that a person who calls himself a Muslim is a Muslim . If someone says the Kalima Shahada they become a Muslim. Only God can decide not you.

[Nomiboy19]

@Dgenerate01 well you may declare us non-Muslims as often as you like, but fact is we are doing a great work for the sake of Islam whereas most orthodox Muslims have done great harm to the image of Islam through their radical and wrong interpretation and application of Islamic teachings. Because of them Islam-critics like Mariam and Annemarie have been able to accrue so many things about the Muslims of today.

[peacebeonyou786]

@Dgenerate01 For your information, the Athiest Society in UCL is the largest and they DID contact the Islamic Society first, but the Islamic Society flatly refused because they knew that they would not be able to properly defend Islam nor have proper arguments. It was only then that the Ahmadiyya Society stepped in and Masha'Allah done an amazing job in defending Islam and the Holy Prophet (saw). If you don't believe me (which I know you won't) then ask the Athiest Society yourself.

[peacebeonyou786]

@Dgenerate01 U call Ahmadis non Muslims, I'd like to point out a clear way of distinguishing who represents TRUE Islam -just see our respective screen-names. Mine is 'peacebeonyou786' which is the Islamic greeting + the numeric representation of 'In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Ever Merciful'. Whilst your name is 'Dgenerate01', I'd ask everyone to look up the meaning of 'denegerate'. You gave yourself this screen-name which ironically is also the state of the version of Islam you represent.

[RehanTanvir]

Truly a delight to watch! Congratulations to the organizers.

[servantof1god]

i think both parties are discussing two different issues

[SLatif01]

Very good debate. It is worth to listen whole debate. Ahmadiyya Muslim Community's members explained the Sharia Law with Quran, Sunnah and Hadith. Well done.

[mahamuzaffar]

It would have been even better if instead of two men, two women would have spoken in favor of true sharia.

[derweise786]

ahmadiyyat zindabad!

[mneasn]

aslam o alaikum

brother is this the debate which was also told by hazur [abb] in previous khutbah jmmah .?.

mashaa Allah .. we ahmadies are always keen to find ways to defend islam..

jai Mirza ki

[ThePeacefulMessage]

Great

[PhilosophyDrummer]

It appears that Ayyaz Mahmood Khan misses the point. His argument is that the Sharia law being discussed has no holy basis. This is vastly irrelevant.

The point is whether or not the 'Sharia' laws that ACTUALLY exist in certain countries are against human rights. We might aswel refer to them as 'laws that exist in these countries that some people believe have a "holy" basis'. I say he stops hiding behind his argument that they have no 'holy basis' and comments on the actual existing laws.

[ForABrighterTomorrow]

An impassioned debate! Strangely enough, much of what Ms. Namazie and Ms.Waters find abhorrent, the Ahmadi Muslims there find abhorrent, too! Ahmadis take their cue directly from the Quran first, then Sunnah, then Hadith. Outside that peaceful and dynamic community, Shariah has become a travesty of the societal code it was designed to be. It is critical that atheists and others understand just what the Quran mandates and which current practices are later interpolations!

[65azia]

Very good debate, it was really good to listen to the whole thing, Congratulations to the Ahmadiyya team, that was very well done.

[mansoorly]

Well defended by Youngster brothers, Inshallah Ahmadiyya Muslim community will defend Islam in every way in the world.

[manzariqbal1994]

Yeah Great Debate by Muslims in defend of Islam

[shaqdaddymirza]

The True Islam. Ahmadiyyat Zindabad!

[ExposingLurchi]

good job by the ahmadiyya movement. in my opinion mariyam namazie has no arguments.

[Nomiboy19]

very good camerateam!

[u2ali]

we all know which 2 people disliked this video lol

but seriously excellent job defending my fellow Khuddam!

[humanity777]

Very Great Debate!!!!

Very nice

[adeelsaw]

This kind of debates should be held on different topics...

[snazare1510]

Ahmedis are as crazy as other muslims.



[shehzadlife]

Islam ahmadiyyat

[TheWegweiser]

Great Debate!!!! Islam was defented with the true... Ahmadiyya Zindabad!

[nasirmirzaii]

Up to 56:14, I have not heard a sentence from atheist’s side quoted a verse from Quran or Hadith. Let me listen till the end.

[the1qfactor]

Very well done. It is quite clear that the atheists had zero legitimate arguments. It would have helped if they actually quoted verses from the Qur'an, rather than cite political regimes, when discussing shariah law.

[IEndeavourAlways]

Religion can only be judged by how it is conducted since it is man made. It is a waste of time quoting your rule book if in practice it is not applied.

[MrFazo7]

it was a great debate but i acknowledge the 'JESUS IN INDIA' one at UCL university ... i would like to find out who was the person presenting that lecture

[mechatak]

Great debate. I was there. Islam was defended with courage, vigour, calm and truth.