Everyone thinks their Holy Book is the Word of God and that they have the right interpretation of it. The Bible and the Koran being the most abused. Yeshua Jesus did't die to send a book about Him, He died to do away with book religion and redeem us from the curse of the law which no one can keep.
Violence happens independent of religion. Violence happens in spite of religion, not because of it. If religion were to vanish from the face of the Earth the level of violence in the world would not diminish. We would easily think of other fantastical reasons to kill each other.
@Keysteeze And to rape, create slaves of other groups, deem ourselves the dominant and superior group, tear down others to make ourselves feel superior, and such.
@LordAntonis Yes my friend. Any evil that you can name happens in spite of religion, not because of it. Including the dehumanizing horrors that you mentioned.
I agree. Religion is terrible. Jesus rebuked the religious hypocrites of His day. I do not want to be in eternity with religious hypocrites! Thank you Jesus for dying on a cross so that I can be made new. I now know Christ. He is my best friend.
Religion causes violence? Sam Harris, the great champion of "free thought" yet is pro torture and pro murder. Harris bluntly says "some propositions are so dangerous that it may even be ethical to kill people for believing them." Well, Sammy, your admiration and promotion of torture and murder may qualify as dangerous so why not line up and get ready for the firing squad.
If you are going to attack him, then you should at least get your context right. Read The End of Faith, pg 52-53, to get the correct context of the statement, and stop spitting out common misquotes like everyone else. Also, even if he said that, HTH did you get tourture out of it?
I don't steal, rape, murder etc. because I'm a Christian. Before I was a Christian those things were just heinous and immoral to me. But, that doesn't mean other individual's who don't believe in God, don't cross that line on a regular basis. And without a God who has absolute authority, how is one human to justify telling the next what is "right" and what is "wrong" when it comes to morality?
we have evolved enough to know how to function for a successful society. it has nothing ti do with god. many animals have evovled a set of morals as well.
Successful as in how? So then if telling a lie, cheating and stealing provides success for those who practice it, does that make it moral? If morality is evolved, then anyone could justify those actions, they could say you just haven't evolved to their level yet. And who then would have the authority to tell them otherwise? In the Bible, God has everything to do with everything. It makes much more sense that God would then have absolute authority, whereas with man alone there is none.
I am not talking about individual success, I am talking about success as a whole. If we get along with each other then we are successful as a society. Like I said, some of the higher intelligent animals also have rules that they follow, look at chimps and wolves.
What then about individual rights? Getting along, but under whose system? That's the point, under the EU? Or Russia and China?
Those higher intelligent animals kill, and steal all the time, does that mean we can do the same? In fact, by power is how wolves control chaos, it is a King and Queen system with no other members allowed to breed. Chimps eat other monkey's and fight for dominance, they raid other troops as well. How can they be used as an example?
they are good examples bc they show how animals have evolved rules and laws. If we went around killing each other at will then we would not be were we are today.
But with animals there isn't justification either. So they steal, and kill. If humans want to lie, cheat, and steal, then whose to say this is immoral? There isn't a justification in your answers to tell someone not to do this. Backstabbing is considered just a part of 'business' in this age, just another means of climbing the corporate latter? Is this ok? If not, where is the justification in not doing so, when the individual and corporations prosper?
Whose to say evolution won't come to accept telling a lie, stealing or cheating? Because if these scientist's say that homosexuality wasn't accepted and now it is. Then isn't it just as likely that down the road violence and murder will be accepted by society as well? These evolutionist's all come from arguments of degrees. And when you argue in degrees and increments of morality, than anyone can justify whatever degree they want to live if there isn't a God.
If you are getting your morals from the god of the bible then you are delusional or maybe you haven't read the bible. God apparently has his own set of morals that he follows. If the bible is true he has killed more people than anyone on earth. He surely does not deserve praise for his constant failures. I won't argue something you can't prove is real anymore.
God has his own set of morals. If the Bible is true God enforced 'do to others as others would do to you'. Jesus spoke of it and secular society calls it the golden rule. But because God would have absolute authority God could then actually enforce this rule. So what God allowed Israel to do to their enemies is what they did to each other, Assyrians put heads on stakes. With man, man can tell you, but there is always a chance of getting away with the action you committed never happening to you.
Actually Jesus preached against the "golden rule". He said love your enemies even though they hate you. Not do onto others. And yes apparently god does have his own set of morals because he most certainly does not practice what he preaches. He says not to murder, yet he killed every baby on earth and every firstborn. He also demands human sacrifice. Even if he is real I don't think he is worthy of praise. He is basically a mob boss.
Jesus didn't preach against this: Matthew ch. 7 v. 12. Loving your enemies even though they hate you isn't against do to others as they would do to you. If you want people to love you, you will love them. How they then choose to treat you is on them not you. You'll notice God had the firstborn killed because that is exactly what the king of Egypt required to be done to the Hebrew's. God enforced do to others as they would do to you, what you call the Golden rule.
No dude, jesus said to love even those who hate you, not just those who love you bc there is no reward in loving your friends. And god still killed every baby on earth during the great flood. So basically god does whatever he wants. Your god is basically a sicko bc he already knows everything that will happen and yet he still creates all these babies just to drown them in the great flood. He allows people to be born even though he knows they will end up in hell. It is sadistic.
Why are you thinking it is only about hate? 'Do to others what you want people to do to you' isn't about only if they hate you or love you, it is what the individual is to practice. There is reward in keeping the Commandment's of Jesus. Also, the Bible says specifically Jesus went and spoke to all those souls who died before him at the time of Noah in 1 Peter ch. 3 v. 19-20.
I guess I will just end with this, bc we obviously will never agree on this subject. We must agree to disagree. But I will say this. Prove god is real first, then I will consider all of your other theories about god. I find it pointless to debate the philosophy of something that you can not see, hear, touch, smell, or taste.
If the God of the Bible is true, it takes faith to please God. But don't you accept it when science speaks of atoms? Yet you cannot see, hear, touch, smell, or taste them. What about UV rays from the sun? The same thing. Have you ever seen, heard, touched, smelled or tasted, the brain of your Science Professor? According to the protocol you just gave, science says he/she doesn't have a brain. So if science says they don't have a brain how then can you trust their lectures about Evolution?
there are instruments that can detect these things called atoms. I don't know if you are denying that they exist, but if you are you need a reality check. Same with UV rays. We can see their effects. As far as god goes, sorry but you can't even compare it to anything scientific
But now you're adding to it. So science protocol isn't simply hear, touch, taste and smell then? Morality is an instrument for detecting God. And the lack of justifying why one person can tell another how to behave within morality detects the need for an absolute authority, of which man has none.
Our absolute authority is each other. We know we can not be sucessful unless we try to work together. That is why most of us do try. It is the same with almost all animals. every species shows favoritism towards its own. That is why most of us do not find it unmoral to step on a roach, or kill a cow and eat it.
Correction, there has never been world peace period. Every animal competes with one another down to the smallest single cell organisms. The only exception is that species show favoritism towards one another.
So then working together to be successful can always be justified in degrees. For example, some groups of people work together to succeed at the expense of others and Evolution shows that species fight even amongst themselves, so then any group can then justify their behavior.
I dont see why people bash religion... I have stuff to thank religion for, 1. About 90 percent of wars that kill other religious nuts, 2. The brainwashed motherfuckers that wake me up every sunday making sure I dont oversleep, 3. AND THE BEST THING, 500 dollars I claim to give to church every year on my tax return that the IRS sends back to me so I can spend it on drugs, internet to download shit for free, beer, munchies and musical instruments to enjoy life... So thanks a lot religion... ha
the fact that he thinks war is a result of religion also shows he knows nothing about history. people have been at war since the dawn of time. ancient africa, america, & asia were riddled with wars having nothing to do with religion. ancient europeans were at war with each other long before christianity came to europe. the vast majority of wars have been over land, not religion. but, i guess the people who believe religion is evil will hear what they want to hear.
religion has been around since the dawn of time and HAS been the result of many wars and fighting, thinking powerful being that doesnt exist is on your side, doesnt help negotiations
he keeps talking about the problems the US has because of their religion. first off, most so-called christians in the US do not follow biblical teaching & most can't even quote one scripture. our society isn't even remotely christian for the most part. we produce most of the world's porn, abortion is legal, & divorce is rampant. you obviously haven't read the bible if you think we live in a christian nation. we actually live in a FORMERLY christian nation.
The fact that both violent and nonviolent religious people exist seems to suggest that the violence comes from individuals, not religion, although the violent individual may choose to express his violence through religion. If the religion was not there, man would find another medium.
I can't believe I've never thought of this before. It seems so simple now that I think about it!
There would be no need for absolute morality because EVERYONE WOULD GET ALONG JUST PERFECTLY AND AGREE ON EVERYTHING THERE IS IN THIS WORLD.
THERE WOULD BE NO REASON FOR ANYONE TO KILL ANOTHER HUMAN BEING. NO WARS, NOTHING, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WOULD EVER GET PEOPLE TO ACT VIOLENTLY AND CHARISMATICALLY AS A GROUP!!!
Seriously, you people have too much faith in the goodness of man.
@andyx1205 Oh man, I just stole your line. I didn't read your comment until I already wrote mine. Kind of ironic, I should have given you credit dammit!
@sybo59 I don't know much about the guy. It's possible that I subconsciously paraphrased something I read long ago, but I wasn't attempting to quote anyone.
Religion is but one of the things humans war over. There's also territory to grab, and resources to snatch for one's own use.
However, if religion were abolished like the sham that it is, it would make room for people who actually think and come up with ideas to get ahead. We'd be more likely to solve more problems if religion wasn't such a hindrance.
When people believe in bible's god, killing kids and fetuses becomes moral: Moses was angry with the oficers of the army who returned from battle. "Have you allowed all the women to live? They were the ones who followed Balaam's advice and turned the Israelites away from the LORD in what happened at Peor, so that a plague struck the LORD's people. Now kill all the boys and kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.[Num 31:14-18]
"...once Jesus gets ahold of him." Yeah, when the peace-loving Jesus gets a hold of Harris, for simply not following him, he'll torture him and make him pay.
Why do you think that your lame threats intimidate intelligent, educated, rational people?
The bible, the qur'an, the torah are all man-made compilations of awe-inspiring bullshit. They deserve the same place in mankind's history as Hitler's "Mein Kampf" (who btw put the slogan "God with Us" on the belt buckles of his SS storm troopers. AFAIK, GAWD never protested it).
The monotheistic religions (the "desert dogmas") have a tendency to stick like dog-sh!t clings to your boot: mankind just seems unable to shake off this utter madness and sheer idiocy. So, no peace in our time!
I don't think anyone will dispute me when I say that mothers are good, and have been a great blessing on society. There may be a few out there who are crazy, and throw their kid into a stove, but mothers are an essential part of our society.
That's the way it is with religion. Without, mankind would have destroyed himself long ago. There will always be crazy people, with or without religion.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
"[...] many more people have been killed (most by their own governments) in the name of evolution-inspired ideologies than in all the wars of recorded history put together, religious or otherwise."
Quoting AnswersInGenesis? LMAO! That says it all right there. AIG is a quack site run by diploma mill graduates. Anyone who takes them seriously would believe anything. Oh wait..
Even Richard Dawkins points out that Dr. Kurt Wise is a man with a Ph.D. in geology. Kurt Wise works very closely with AnswersinGenesis. BTW, can you give some names of scientists who work with AnswersinGenesis who have illegitimate degrees?
Sorry but there's no way in hell anyone has killed more people than those who have done so in the name of religion - Christianity and Islam in particular. Stop listening to the liars at AIG. They're only out to make money off you naive fundies.
wow i see that it is just pointless to debate a religious person unless your intention is to exercise your debate skills. the only ones worth the bother are the ones that never really believed in the first place. otherwise you're just banging your head against a locked door that is content on staying locked.
Yup, youre totally right. The problem is religion cannot be argued against, because it is based in fantasy, that which cannot be proven, expressed or demonstrated. So those who believe in it cannot defend it. Instead they just quote the bible till their blue in the face, and you wish you were dead, lol.
CFD...:Al qaeda do not use religion to excuse their actions. Their religous beliefs dictate their actions. They dont perform atrocities and then use the bible to excuse them, they genuinelly believe that it is their duty to perform such heinous crimes, as commanded by their god. Im sorry, but to deny the link between religion and violence, is to ignore everything that has happened in the world over the last 2 millenia. How can you not see the link?
im not here to excuse al qaeda for what they do. what you do not know is that there a two versions of that qu'ran they tote around. one which tells them to murder and the other a bit more peaceful. and yes...the kkk and the knights templar used slander. again...pls understand there is no link.
And its funny that you are not here to exuse al qaeda because the blind religious dogma that you type in response to me and mespo is a stones throw away from the sort of replys you would expect from a jihad waging extremist.
wow you guys really have it twisted. in the WORD paul warns people of satan revealing himself as an angel of light. what did mohammed claim to see? an angel of light. he was also convinced himself that he was possessed by demons and that he had been tricked by satan. CLEARLY i now am sure that you two are both blinded by satan's lies. look at you!!! calling me a jihadist when all i've talked about is LOVE,GRACE, AND PEACE!
THe sad thing is that only Atheist will read it so the conversation will end there, lets face it Christians hate to read, they do not even read their own bible .
who? i highly doubt you are talking about me. Im not here to do that nor do I like when people do that. clearly someone has done this to you and it has angered you tons! maybe by commenting with me you will look at our posts and realize i've done nothing of the sort but stand up for what i believe while never crapping on what you believe. peace
They just read the happy lovey dovey stuff the church reads to them on sunday. Thats why they dont know how to respond when you point out that their bible commands them to kill three quarters of todays society.
The bible does not promote a message of tolerance and peace, quite the opposite. Wonderful, one of the ten commandments is thou shall not murder...its just unfortunate that throughout the bible it commands you to murder non believers, gays, homosexuals, witches, those who work on a sunday, those who are not virgins on their wedding, those who dont listen to priests, fortune tellers, adulterers and fornicators...such a peaceful message.
pray: I 'd say the bible is a mixed bag since it was written by so many people. It some places it does have a message of peace, in others a call to death and destruction. The problem is that folks like cfdp think its the unerring word of an omniscient creator--contradictions notwithstanding. Therefore everything they do is justified since they have god on their side making opponents the evil ones. That's why dogmatism is so pernicious.
Yup, it is a mixed bag, you're right. Though I can get my morals from elsewhere, I dont need a 2000 year old book to tell me how to live my life. Those that think it is relevant in this day and age are not far from those who read it literally and follow it to the extreme. We can follow the good standards described in it without faith. But it is the trap of blind faith that leads people to the most evil crimes against humanity. The moderate theists act as a shield for the extremists.
pary: That's a good point. I don't think any thinking person really believes it is the best source of human morality. Just one of many espousing similar themes. That's what bothers me about these dogmatists, they just don't listen to any criticism since they are so sure they are correct. Pride goeth before the fall. How's that for some biblical wisdom?
Get what? That you believe in something that has no proof. No shred of evidence. No logical basis. You have nothing, not a single fucking thing to substantiate your ridiculous beliefs. I do get it. You are extremely weak minded, as are those like you. Use your brain. Think outside what you are taught in sunday school. You have no reason to believe what you believe - so why do you?!
simple. its truth. for what is seen is temporary and what is unseen is eternal. language!!! so now you're using your adult voice then huh? i have plenty of reasons...reasons in my life that He has changed for the better. i don't expect you to understand that with your logic. peace
"reasons in my life that He has changed for the better. i don't expect you to understand that with your logic."
The reason you wont tell me is because you know I have a sensible explanation, that doesnt require religious faith, for all of the reasons that you use to persuade yourself of Gods existence. And the funny thing is, you know that. I will just tell you the real reasons for these things he has 'changed for the better'. Not the dumbass religious interpretation.
SURE ya will! look at you just bashin' along. i bet out of the two of us...you would be the violent one! ha. put that in your pipe and smoke it. peace
Thats why you wont tell me your 'personal reasons' for your belief. And how God has 'changed your life'. Because I will tell you the actual reasons for it. Reasons that actually make sense. And you know that my reasons will be more logical than yours. Because your entire belief is a sham. Its amazing that religion has survived to this day, but it will continue on, as long as parents and schools brainwash the children with thoughts of God and Jesus and walking on water, with no actual evidence.
wow. sillyness runs rampant with you huh? you and your logic...thats your only defense. your just too simple minded to realize your not that intelligent.
You call me simple minded, yet you believe wholeheartedly in something you have been told, with no factual basis, evidence, or supporting argument. There is really no better example. You cant answer any of my questions because your religion doesnt equip you for rational conversation. Claiming the bible is the infallible word of god is a joke. Even most believers admit that. I suggest you stay in school until your reasoning mechanisms are fully developed. Peace.
something i have and do read and feel with every ounce of my being...not what i have been told. what believers would they be? false converts? weak on your part...message me if you want to know. peace
cfdp: If you want to end the discussion fine. There is no reason to accuse someone of violent propensities simply because you are losing the argument. The criticisms leveled have been reasoned and legitimate questions have been asked. You have answered none of them. I also have a bet: out of the two of us you would be the one to accept anything someone in authority told you--whether it was moral or not. Put that in your incense burner and smoke it.
losing the argument? HA!! go ahead lets see your proof then. legitmate questions? really? which ones? i highly disagree with you...see i just proved you wrong. you're what...43 yrs old? authority there and look at that....im not accepting your "wisdom." come at me with some real evidence....message me so you can have all the space you want.
cfdp: I should have said an "authority" you now respect. Bottom line is that Pray and I need prove nothing. We aren't making the assertion - you are. Therefore you owe us an explanation which you have so far assiduously avoided. So I give it to you, besides your "feelings" give me some proof that what you say is true. No circular reasoning from your magic book allowed. Just give me some concrete and verifiable facts that what you say is better than worship of Zeus or Poseidon or whomever.
so wrong you are. how is everything i do justified? give me an example. you guys are hilarious with your antics. infact, why don't you guys get some more people that feel the same way as you do against me. then you won't feel bad at all! haha.
you speak of the old testament. then there came a man named Jesus, who by his death, has taken all that away. yeah...peaceful. you got it! well done. peace
The new testament is just as bad as the the old one. In fact matthew writes that Jesus doesn't have the slightest objection to the cruelties in the old testament. All in all, it makes very little difference. The messages to kill and murder are written in your bible for anyone who wants to read it. Thats why there is a link between religion and violence. Because people are so sure that their beliefs are right, over everyone elses. And the funny thing is, you're all wrong. There is no god.
says you of no faith. who are you to say that there is no God? nice touch by the way...trying to get me riled up huh? not gonna work!! silly people. it's just too bad you can't see past your hatred. maybe one day you'll have an open mind. peace
Well the fact that I dont have any faith puts me in a much better position to judge. Seeing as you do, you cant look at the situation rationally. You dont seem to understand. If I had reason to believe in the existence of God, I probably would, it would explain a lot of things. But there is just no good reason to. Not a single one. Not a shred of evidence to suggest his existence. The reason I can say he doesnt exist is because you cannot prove otherwise.
And if when you say maybe one day I will have an open mind you mean believe in something blindly, just because someone has told me to. No. I will not. But good work, you're a wonderful example.
im not telling you anything. where are you getting this from? i mean really...making stuff up is pretty childish. as for your judgement. Matthew 7:1 "do not judge, or you too will be judged. for in the same way you judge others, you will be judged." peace
cfdp: "you speak of the old testament. then there came a man named Jesus, who by his death, has taken all that away." Jesus disagrees: "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished." Matt.5:17-8.
matthew 5:19 "anyone who breaks one of the least of these COMMANDMENTS...." matt 5:38-39 "you have heard that it was said,eye for an eye, and tooth for tooth. but I tell you, do not resist an evil person. if someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also." your argument is not a strong one. peace
cfdp: Thanks for the interpretation. But if its true and unerring, why do I need your interpretation? Do you believe this is the inerrant word of the creator or not? If yes, why does it need your opinion on its meaning to resolve an obvious inconsistency.
there is no inconsistency....thats the issue. you THINK there is so therefore i have to explain it to you like i would a 5year old. oh and pray....that message thing goes for you too.
careful now....thou shalt not lie is also a commandment. throughout the bible? really? doubtful. looks like you're describing the old testament...again...verses please. what about the message of love...that Jesus came, died for us, and rose again so that belief in Him means that we would not suffer. Yes...a very peaceful message. peace
cfdp: Wow! What college do you go to. Don't you know that our country was founded on the principles of liberal democracy, separation of powers,individual rights, freedom, and respect for the individual. Principles which I am sure you agree is totally at odds with hierarchical religion. The founders weren't christian - they were deists having seen the mayhem wrought by religion. Take a policy sci class! love & soul.
cfdp: Yeah they were christians and they founded the Massachusetts Bay Colony. Convicts with Oglethorpe (himself an ex-con) founded Georgia. Was our nation founded on criminal ideas too? Funny you mention the Pilgrims and their successors the Puritans who brought us religious intolerance, rigid social codes and witch trials. Come on now with those unlettered comments I am sure you are at Bob Jones U, or Liberty U?
you only wish i attended those schools. haha. but really...what does it matter what school i go to. NONE. what if i told you i attend school at Pepperdine or Stanford? you fail to see that you expect christians to be perfect. when if fact that point is that we're not and are very aware of it. peace
cfdp: I am ecstatic you don't go there. They are beyond hope if they buy into all that. I think you are listening which is more than most do. I want you to consider what I say since I do have at least a little more life experience. I do wish you well. Peace
ah an insult in the nicest way!I never said I didn't. Your experience means nothing to me...and what i mean is that i don't know your life story so why would i consider your words that bash me? that would be quite foolish of me. thanks for the wishes and while you wish, ill pray for you. peace
There is a clear link when people perform violent acts in a name of a God that doesn't stand for it. That would be slander and many, many people have done it. The knights templar and the kkk are two good examples. brimmjob you have obviously had very little education on the bible. Pick it up, read it, and you'll understand. peace
In Deuteronomy 13:12-16 God tells Christians it is their duty to put fellow citizens who wish to "serve other Gods" "to the sword". Pick it up, read it. You tell me if this is a peaceful message
obviously i know your just picking this out and ill tell you to read a couple of pages before and after those four verses. these types of arguments further solidify your lack of understanding and your close mindedness. peace
There is NO LINK between religion and violence. I dunno but I'm pretty sure this guy can't read cuz if he knew how to he would have read the bible and realized that there is no link between violence and bible. There is a link between extremists that do terrible things in the name of God.
cfdp529 you have obviously had very little education on the the link between religion and violence. You really should read Sam Harris' Books and watch his lectures. No one should take you seriously if when you show a glaring ignorance to the claims of another's argument.
extremists are slanderers. you're missing the point. i can do many things in the name of God but if that's not what God stands for. violence comes when people take things into their own hands. when they become megalomaniacs. just b/c they claim they're a part of it doesn't mean they are a part of it.
Im not missing your point. Your point is just wrong. Just because someone interprets the bible differently to you does not make their interpretation incorrect. If anything it is your interpretatino that is incorrect. Literalism and extremism atleast makes some sense. If you think that the good book is genuinely the word of god then you should be out kiling people, for it is commanded of you. Moderatism doesnt make any sense what so ever. So yes. There is a link between religion and violence.
wow you're wrong. there is only one interpretation. what in the good book would make me go kill people? is it the "LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF?" yeah i guess that would make me go kill people. thanks again for making me smile. again....no link. peace
There isn't only one interpretation you simple minded fool. And the love your neighbour as yourself only applys to those neighbours who believe in the same thing as you do, the rest must be killed, for they are evil incarnate. You can deny it all you want. But you are incorrect. Even most believers are prepared to admit it. You could do with reading some of the bible if you dont know about the commands to kill in it.
i know of the commands well, but i also know the context in which they were given. i highly doubt you do. all you can do is pick verses out and make it seem a certain way. i read plenty. go ahead there tough guy. give me some verses which you'll twist. peace
The context really doesn't matter. If the bible tells you to kill, regardless of its context, people will do it and use the bible as justification. People have done, are currently doing, and will continue to do this. Their belief in god is different to yours, but it still exists. I really dont have to give you verse, you know them already. You just choose to ignore them. Other people dont ignore them. They are just as religious as you are, just in a different way.
ahhhh hahaha. no. not true. if you were a member of the kkk or the knights templar than ya...you would kill b/c you are an idiot. you argument is bogus. im a christian and have not killed nor will ever kill another human being. thats MURDER...one of the ten commandments. but you knew that right? peace
So let me get this straight. You're telling me Al-Qaeda is not a religious terrorist cell...right? Just a terrorist cell? If that is actually what you are saying, then I shall no longer be replying to your comments, as you are very very misguided.
clearly your reading comp. is a little off. im precisely saying that fanatics like al-qaeda and the kkk ARE religious. they are EXTREMISTS. they are using religion to excuse their actions....not what religion is meant for. you're the one who is misguided...and silly. peace
My comprehension is fine. Your argument is just disjointed. You said earlier that those who use religion for evil are not truly religious. Now you say al qaeda are religous. Please make up your mind. You admit that al qaeda are religous extremists, but wont admit there is a link between religion and violence...please...just think for a moment...it really wont take long to make the association.
Al qaeda do not use religion to excuse their actions. Their religous beliefs dictate their actions. They dont perform atrocities and then use the bible to excuse them, they genuinelly believe that it is their duty to perform such heinous crimes, as commanded by their god. Im sorry, but to deny the link between religion and violence, is to ignore everything that has happened in the world over the last 2 millenia. You dont even have an argument. You're just plain wrong.
I mean that people take it out of context....like you and the maker of this video and the kkk and the jihadists. What holds this country and the world together is morals. Science and evolution don't provide that. Without religion, our world would be in more chaos than it already is. Plus...this guy is an idiot.
cfdp: I guess those "people" would be the religious. They either believe what their entire dogma says or they don't. If they do, they are dogmatists since every religion holds that it is the inspired word of the creator. If you simply pick and choose the portions of dogma that you like, you are by defintion outside of the religion. (con't)
con't: That cafeteria approach is taking religion out of context since religion is internally consistent in that its teaches that it is the only way and that it must be accepted in toto without conceding anything to a competing religion.
Very well said. Exactly what I think. Atleast extremism makes some logical sense. Moderatism, or cherry picking the bits you like, isn't real belief anyway. If you genuinely believed the bible to be the word of god you wouldn't disregard any of it.
im not just picking things that i like. thats where you are confused. i like the whole book. every part. now if you want to hear why i follow Christ and why you should to then by all means ask away. if not....im not going to tell you why. You guys are the ones that pick and choose which parts you like and dislike...not me. peace
cfdp: Ok I 'll take you at your word that you don't pick and choose. You must then necessarily believe that your god also allows slavery, including selling your own daughter as a sex slave (Exodus 21:1-11), child abuse (Judges 11:29-40 and Isaiah 13:16), and bashing babies against rocks (Hosea 13:16 & Psalms 137:9). Do you really?
I dont even have to look at my bible to know that all you did was pick these to form your rediculous case. Have you even read exodus? God delivers the Jews from slavery and makes a covenant to them, that they are His people and He will and does fulfill His covenant to them. You just did what I knew you would. Weak argument...tell me that you honestly read all of exodus, judges, isaiah, hosea, and psalms...if you did then I'm 100% positive you would retract your comment.
second attempt at posting. You just did what i said you would. You chose the parts that will make the bible look like a book of hatred. I will bet my life that you did not read anything but those verses. I challenge you to read all those books...the whole way through and tell me that you still want to keep your silly post up. peace
cfdr: Unlike most of the bible thumpers, I have read these passages, and you can't dispute that these inhuman acts are all sanctioned by the creator. Just because you don't like the ideas doesn't mean they are out of context. I don't have to read the entire work to understand the context of "books" that were wriiten independently and later complied into the christian bible. (con't)
(con't) The oldest ploy in the world is taking clear --though horrific-- statements and softening their obviously outlandish meanings with the excuse that they are "taken out of context."
hahaha. wow for a second there i thought i saw that you actually read those passages. The whole books of exodus, psalms, hosea, isaiah, AND judges huh? thats crazy that you read that much in such a short time. clearly you have NOT read the entire passages. nice try though....peace
Maybe you can ubderstand the difference now. I have flascards for you if not. Btw I have read the other fairy tales and they make about as much sense as your comments. Thanks for avoiding the issue--it makes my proof easier.
cdfp: def: book: A printed or written literary work; def: passage: a segment of a literary work. Will we need flashcards to help you? Btw thanks for avoiding the argument, it makes my case stronger, and I have read the entire work fyi just not yesterday. Those fairy tales sound a lot like your comments...Piece!
book....book of judges, book of psalms, book of exodus. passage.....is a set of verses. you're being silly. and im not avoiding your argument. fairy tales...your opinion...thats fine. flashcards...trying to talk down to me huh? nice...real mature. haha. i appreciate your humor. peace
The arrogance is on your side of the argument. We who question do not hold ourselves out as the emissaries of the divine, unerring creator. That's your gig. We simply ask that if you make extraorinary claims like virgin birth, or miralculous resurrection, or live after death, that you provide us with extraordinary evidence. Sorry about the flascards but feigned stupidity deserves such a response.
again...real cute with the cut down. grow up! there's plenty of evidence, there is just a lack of clarity on your part. i see well...you're just blinded by your hatred of truth. i just hope you can look at our discussions and see that YOU'VE been the one attacking me. thanks again for the insults. peace
Oh dear. Where is the evidence you say is so plentiful? Ill tell you. It only exists in your mind. And we dont hate the truth, we seek it. We dont just accept some ridiculous story as fact, as you appear to. Its funny how you see yourself as under attack, when really were just intrigued as to how you can possibly believe what you do. I guess that is what it must feel like when your religion leaves you unequipped to deal with a questioning mind.
This has been flagged as spam show
Everyone thinks their Holy Book is the Word of God and that they have the right interpretation of it. The Bible and the Koran being the most abused. Yeshua Jesus did't die to send a book about Him, He died to do away with book religion and redeem us from the curse of the law which no one can keep.
THE BIBLE IS THE MARK OF THE BEAST.
BIBLEisMARKofBEAST 7 months ago
Violence happens independent of religion. Violence happens in spite of religion, not because of it. If religion were to vanish from the face of the Earth the level of violence in the world would not diminish. We would easily think of other fantastical reasons to kill each other.
Keysteeze 1 year ago
@Keysteeze
1 less reason is better for everyone.
Yankyal1 1 year ago
@Keysteeze And to rape, create slaves of other groups, deem ourselves the dominant and superior group, tear down others to make ourselves feel superior, and such.
LordAntonis 1 year ago
@LordAntonis Yes my friend. Any evil that you can name happens in spite of religion, not because of it. Including the dehumanizing horrors that you mentioned.
Keysteeze 1 year ago
I wonder who were the 13 who thumbed down...
Muusicca 1 year ago
i want to know christian opinion guided by bible about
1.intimate relationship btwn man and women before marry
2.gay and lesbian
3.throw away baby in the womb because we dont want it(dont know the word)
curios
rafizah1 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
"It is impossible to rightly govern a nation without God and the Bible."
George Washington
danmol78 1 year ago
He does make a good point.
slicingwater 2 years ago
I agree. Religion is terrible. Jesus rebuked the religious hypocrites of His day. I do not want to be in eternity with religious hypocrites! Thank you Jesus for dying on a cross so that I can be made new. I now know Christ. He is my best friend.
shilohrenovation 2 years ago
I have one word for you "christians". HORUS
larsjake 2 years ago
pra s mga atheist... gwa nmn keo ng shirt n
" thank god im an atheist!"
bbili aq! ehehe.. pero saka nlng cguru aq bbili pg ndi n aq nkatira s parents q n christians eheehhe hehe
magalingsimark 2 years ago
Religion causes violence? Sam Harris, the great champion of "free thought" yet is pro torture and pro murder. Harris bluntly says "some propositions are so dangerous that it may even be ethical to kill people for believing them." Well, Sammy, your admiration and promotion of torture and murder may qualify as dangerous so why not line up and get ready for the firing squad.
ChristianMission 2 years ago
If you are going to attack him, then you should at least get your context right. Read The End of Faith, pg 52-53, to get the correct context of the statement, and stop spitting out common misquotes like everyone else. Also, even if he said that, HTH did you get tourture out of it?
OccamsRazors 2 years ago
But he did give an argument for torture.
slicingwater 2 years ago
Yeah, thats a common quote that is taken out of context
Codfert970 2 years ago
because you know that's not reasonable.
maddtappin 1 year ago
--check out the God Code...--
watch?v=bX_UjfxPIuU
saturnfusion 2 years ago
I don't steal, rape, murder etc. because I'm a Christian. Before I was a Christian those things were just heinous and immoral to me. But, that doesn't mean other individual's who don't believe in God, don't cross that line on a regular basis. And without a God who has absolute authority, how is one human to justify telling the next what is "right" and what is "wrong" when it comes to morality?
JCDBenjamin 2 years ago
we have evolved enough to know how to function for a successful society. it has nothing ti do with god. many animals have evovled a set of morals as well.
tyrone9009 2 years ago
Successful as in how? So then if telling a lie, cheating and stealing provides success for those who practice it, does that make it moral? If morality is evolved, then anyone could justify those actions, they could say you just haven't evolved to their level yet. And who then would have the authority to tell them otherwise? In the Bible, God has everything to do with everything. It makes much more sense that God would then have absolute authority, whereas with man alone there is none.
JCDBenjamin 2 years ago
I am not talking about individual success, I am talking about success as a whole. If we get along with each other then we are successful as a society. Like I said, some of the higher intelligent animals also have rules that they follow, look at chimps and wolves.
tyrone9009 2 years ago
What then about individual rights? Getting along, but under whose system? That's the point, under the EU? Or Russia and China?
Those higher intelligent animals kill, and steal all the time, does that mean we can do the same? In fact, by power is how wolves control chaos, it is a King and Queen system with no other members allowed to breed. Chimps eat other monkey's and fight for dominance, they raid other troops as well. How can they be used as an example?
JCDBenjamin 2 years ago
they are good examples bc they show how animals have evolved rules and laws. If we went around killing each other at will then we would not be were we are today.
tyrone9009 2 years ago
But with animals there isn't justification either. So they steal, and kill. If humans want to lie, cheat, and steal, then whose to say this is immoral? There isn't a justification in your answers to tell someone not to do this. Backstabbing is considered just a part of 'business' in this age, just another means of climbing the corporate latter? Is this ok? If not, where is the justification in not doing so, when the individual and corporations prosper?
JCDBenjamin 2 years ago
Whose to say evolution won't come to accept telling a lie, stealing or cheating? Because if these scientist's say that homosexuality wasn't accepted and now it is. Then isn't it just as likely that down the road violence and murder will be accepted by society as well? These evolutionist's all come from arguments of degrees. And when you argue in degrees and increments of morality, than anyone can justify whatever degree they want to live if there isn't a God.
JCDBenjamin 2 years ago
If you are getting your morals from the god of the bible then you are delusional or maybe you haven't read the bible. God apparently has his own set of morals that he follows. If the bible is true he has killed more people than anyone on earth. He surely does not deserve praise for his constant failures. I won't argue something you can't prove is real anymore.
tyrone9009 2 years ago
Comment removed
JCDBenjamin 2 years ago
God has his own set of morals. If the Bible is true God enforced 'do to others as others would do to you'. Jesus spoke of it and secular society calls it the golden rule. But because God would have absolute authority God could then actually enforce this rule. So what God allowed Israel to do to their enemies is what they did to each other, Assyrians put heads on stakes. With man, man can tell you, but there is always a chance of getting away with the action you committed never happening to you.
JCDBenjamin 2 years ago
Actually Jesus preached against the "golden rule". He said love your enemies even though they hate you. Not do onto others. And yes apparently god does have his own set of morals because he most certainly does not practice what he preaches. He says not to murder, yet he killed every baby on earth and every firstborn. He also demands human sacrifice. Even if he is real I don't think he is worthy of praise. He is basically a mob boss.
tyrone9009 2 years ago
Jesus didn't preach against this: Matthew ch. 7 v. 12. Loving your enemies even though they hate you isn't against do to others as they would do to you. If you want people to love you, you will love them. How they then choose to treat you is on them not you. You'll notice God had the firstborn killed because that is exactly what the king of Egypt required to be done to the Hebrew's. God enforced do to others as they would do to you, what you call the Golden rule.
JCDBenjamin 2 years ago
No dude, jesus said to love even those who hate you, not just those who love you bc there is no reward in loving your friends. And god still killed every baby on earth during the great flood. So basically god does whatever he wants. Your god is basically a sicko bc he already knows everything that will happen and yet he still creates all these babies just to drown them in the great flood. He allows people to be born even though he knows they will end up in hell. It is sadistic.
tyrone9009 2 years ago
Why are you thinking it is only about hate? 'Do to others what you want people to do to you' isn't about only if they hate you or love you, it is what the individual is to practice. There is reward in keeping the Commandment's of Jesus. Also, the Bible says specifically Jesus went and spoke to all those souls who died before him at the time of Noah in 1 Peter ch. 3 v. 19-20.
JCDBenjamin 2 years ago
If you choose not to believe in the God of the Bible and Jesus as your savior, then you are exercising your free will.
JCDBenjamin 2 years ago
I guess I will just end with this, bc we obviously will never agree on this subject. We must agree to disagree. But I will say this. Prove god is real first, then I will consider all of your other theories about god. I find it pointless to debate the philosophy of something that you can not see, hear, touch, smell, or taste.
tyrone9009 2 years ago
If the God of the Bible is true, it takes faith to please God. But don't you accept it when science speaks of atoms? Yet you cannot see, hear, touch, smell, or taste them. What about UV rays from the sun? The same thing. Have you ever seen, heard, touched, smelled or tasted, the brain of your Science Professor? According to the protocol you just gave, science says he/she doesn't have a brain. So if science says they don't have a brain how then can you trust their lectures about Evolution?
JCDBenjamin 2 years ago
there are instruments that can detect these things called atoms. I don't know if you are denying that they exist, but if you are you need a reality check. Same with UV rays. We can see their effects. As far as god goes, sorry but you can't even compare it to anything scientific
tyrone9009 2 years ago
But now you're adding to it. So science protocol isn't simply hear, touch, taste and smell then? Morality is an instrument for detecting God. And the lack of justifying why one person can tell another how to behave within morality detects the need for an absolute authority, of which man has none.
JCDBenjamin 2 years ago
Our absolute authority is each other. We know we can not be sucessful unless we try to work together. That is why most of us do try. It is the same with almost all animals. every species shows favoritism towards its own. That is why most of us do not find it unmoral to step on a roach, or kill a cow and eat it.
tyrone9009 2 years ago
But there has never been world peace by man alone.
JCDBenjamin 2 years ago
Correction, there has never been world peace period. Every animal competes with one another down to the smallest single cell organisms. The only exception is that species show favoritism towards one another.
tyrone9009 2 years ago
So then working together to be successful can always be justified in degrees. For example, some groups of people work together to succeed at the expense of others and Evolution shows that species fight even amongst themselves, so then any group can then justify their behavior.
JCDBenjamin 2 years ago
I dont see why people bash religion... I have stuff to thank religion for, 1. About 90 percent of wars that kill other religious nuts, 2. The brainwashed motherfuckers that wake me up every sunday making sure I dont oversleep, 3. AND THE BEST THING, 500 dollars I claim to give to church every year on my tax return that the IRS sends back to me so I can spend it on drugs, internet to download shit for free, beer, munchies and musical instruments to enjoy life... So thanks a lot religion... ha
vismundcignus 2 years ago
the fact that he thinks war is a result of religion also shows he knows nothing about history. people have been at war since the dawn of time. ancient africa, america, & asia were riddled with wars having nothing to do with religion. ancient europeans were at war with each other long before christianity came to europe. the vast majority of wars have been over land, not religion. but, i guess the people who believe religion is evil will hear what they want to hear.
skinnyaccountant 2 years ago
religion has been around since the dawn of time and HAS been the result of many wars and fighting, thinking powerful being that doesnt exist is on your side, doesnt help negotiations
FireStorm821 2 years ago 4
excellent comment!
irendelle 2 years ago
Crusades, spanish inquisition and when the spanish commited genocide to the aztecs.
the1andonlyjman 2 years ago
he keeps talking about the problems the US has because of their religion. first off, most so-called christians in the US do not follow biblical teaching & most can't even quote one scripture. our society isn't even remotely christian for the most part. we produce most of the world's porn, abortion is legal, & divorce is rampant. you obviously haven't read the bible if you think we live in a christian nation. we actually live in a FORMERLY christian nation.
skinnyaccountant 2 years ago
The fact that both violent and nonviolent religious people exist seems to suggest that the violence comes from individuals, not religion, although the violent individual may choose to express his violence through religion. If the religion was not there, man would find another medium.
horsesandmountains 2 years ago
I can't believe I've never thought of this before. It seems so simple now that I think about it!
There would be no need for absolute morality because EVERYONE WOULD GET ALONG JUST PERFECTLY AND AGREE ON EVERYTHING THERE IS IN THIS WORLD.
THERE WOULD BE NO REASON FOR ANYONE TO KILL ANOTHER HUMAN BEING. NO WARS, NOTHING, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WOULD EVER GET PEOPLE TO ACT VIOLENTLY AND CHARISMATICALLY AS A GROUP!!!
Seriously, you people have too much faith in the goodness of man.
Senjutsu777 3 years ago
Human beings sometimes do bad things, but if you want good people to commit evil acts, that takes religion.
Jeremyguru 3 years ago 19
@Jeremyguru don't forget to give the citation! - Steven Weinberg
andyx1205 1 year ago
@andyx1205 Oh man, I just stole your line. I didn't read your comment until I already wrote mine. Kind of ironic, I should have given you credit dammit!
sybo59 1 year ago
@Jeremyguru You should really give Steven Weinberg some credit for the quote my man. Those thumbs up belong to Steve dammit!!!
sybo59 1 year ago
@sybo59 I don't know much about the guy. It's possible that I subconsciously paraphrased something I read long ago, but I wasn't attempting to quote anyone.
Atheistjeremy 1 year ago
@Atheistjeremy I was mostly kidding, no worries. That is his quote though, I wasn't joking about that.
sybo59 1 year ago
Religion is but one of the things humans war over. There's also territory to grab, and resources to snatch for one's own use.
However, if religion were abolished like the sham that it is, it would make room for people who actually think and come up with ideas to get ahead. We'd be more likely to solve more problems if religion wasn't such a hindrance.
Kaemon33 2 years ago 5
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I can't wait to see this Sam Harris maggot once Jesus gets ahold of him. God mockers like him have a special place in hell waiting for them.
PastorEzekiel 3 years ago
I always wonder what haters like you are gonna do in heaven.
Eintr3eipied8 3 years ago 4
This has been flagged as spam show
When people believe in bible's god, killing kids and fetuses becomes moral: Moses was angry with the oficers of the army who returned from battle. "Have you allowed all the women to live? They were the ones who followed Balaam's advice and turned the Israelites away from the LORD in what happened at Peor, so that a plague struck the LORD's people. Now kill all the boys and kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.[Num 31:14-18]
exodus21v20 3 years ago 2
thats a very...nice christian thing to say lol...
rocker26metal 3 years ago
yeah, good point,an all loving and forgiving god should punish and torture him for using his god given intelligence...wow
migo53333 3 years ago
"...once Jesus gets ahold of him." Yeah, when the peace-loving Jesus gets a hold of Harris, for simply not following him, he'll torture him and make him pay.
Why do you think that your lame threats intimidate intelligent, educated, rational people?
Jeremyguru 3 years ago
1) Satan punishes the damned.
2) He doesn't hate god just religious fanatics.
3)You also probably think that abortions, gay marriage and spaceships are the work of satan.
the1andonlyjman 2 years ago
Right on. fuck the bible beaters.
groanmaggot3 3 years ago
no just fuck the bible or any . please wake up now
sheepthroat 3 years ago 3
The bible, the qur'an, the torah are all man-made compilations of awe-inspiring bullshit. They deserve the same place in mankind's history as Hitler's "Mein Kampf" (who btw put the slogan "God with Us" on the belt buckles of his SS storm troopers. AFAIK, GAWD never protested it).
The monotheistic religions (the "desert dogmas") have a tendency to stick like dog-sh!t clings to your boot: mankind just seems unable to shake off this utter madness and sheer idiocy. So, no peace in our time!
macmarine 3 years ago 13
this guy rules.
drwickieno1 3 years ago 5
I don't think anyone will dispute me when I say that mothers are good, and have been a great blessing on society. There may be a few out there who are crazy, and throw their kid into a stove, but mothers are an essential part of our society.
That's the way it is with religion. Without, mankind would have destroyed himself long ago. There will always be crazy people, with or without religion.
ggcage 3 years ago
fuck religion!
ckdead1 3 years ago
Sam Harris is brilliant.
IconoclastDCLXVI 4 years ago 4
Boy oh boy, they pour stupid right into the drinking water where you live, eh?
Akumeitakai 4 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
"[...] many more people have been killed (most by their own governments) in the name of evolution-inspired ideologies than in all the wars of recorded history put together, religious or otherwise."
- Dr. Carl Wieland of AnswersinGenesis ministries
GregoryMuhs 4 years ago
Shut your piehole.
Korittke 4 years ago
Tell me 'bout the rabbits.
Mahoivlich 4 years ago
lol, you actually believe what AnswersinGenesis ministries tells you. I pity you
lordbyrne 4 years ago
Quoting AnswersInGenesis? LMAO! That says it all right there. AIG is a quack site run by diploma mill graduates. Anyone who takes them seriously would believe anything. Oh wait..
Syrinx69 3 years ago 2
Even Richard Dawkins points out that Dr. Kurt Wise is a man with a Ph.D. in geology. Kurt Wise works very closely with AnswersinGenesis. BTW, can you give some names of scientists who work with AnswersinGenesis who have illegitimate degrees?
GregoryMuhs 3 years ago
@GregoryMuhs Wait, you're presenting AIG in SUPPORT of your postion? AH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!
Atheistjeremy 1 year ago
Sorry but there's no way in hell anyone has killed more people than those who have done so in the name of religion - Christianity and Islam in particular. Stop listening to the liars at AIG. They're only out to make money off you naive fundies.
Syrinx69 3 years ago 2
wow i see that it is just pointless to debate a religious person unless your intention is to exercise your debate skills. the only ones worth the bother are the ones that never really believed in the first place. otherwise you're just banging your head against a locked door that is content on staying locked.
theSouliLLUSION 4 years ago 3
Yup, youre totally right. The problem is religion cannot be argued against, because it is based in fantasy, that which cannot be proven, expressed or demonstrated. So those who believe in it cannot defend it. Instead they just quote the bible till their blue in the face, and you wish you were dead, lol.
pray4somesense 4 years ago 3
Indeed.
And then they only quote the verses their preacher told them, seeing as many have not read their Bible on their own!
Oh my..
LliasiAsbi 3 years ago
CFD...:Al qaeda do not use religion to excuse their actions. Their religous beliefs dictate their actions. They dont perform atrocities and then use the bible to excuse them, they genuinelly believe that it is their duty to perform such heinous crimes, as commanded by their god. Im sorry, but to deny the link between religion and violence, is to ignore everything that has happened in the world over the last 2 millenia. How can you not see the link?
pray4somesense 4 years ago
im not here to excuse al qaeda for what they do. what you do not know is that there a two versions of that qu'ran they tote around. one which tells them to murder and the other a bit more peaceful. and yes...the kkk and the knights templar used slander. again...pls understand there is no link.
cfdp529 4 years ago
And its funny that you are not here to exuse al qaeda because the blind religious dogma that you type in response to me and mespo is a stones throw away from the sort of replys you would expect from a jihad waging extremist.
pray4somesense 4 years ago
wow you guys really have it twisted. in the WORD paul warns people of satan revealing himself as an angel of light. what did mohammed claim to see? an angel of light. he was also convinced himself that he was possessed by demons and that he had been tricked by satan. CLEARLY i now am sure that you two are both blinded by satan's lies. look at you!!! calling me a jihadist when all i've talked about is LOVE,GRACE, AND PEACE!
cfdp529 4 years ago
bless u cfdp529 u do research
miauwwmiauww 4 years ago
THe sad thing is that only Atheist will read it so the conversation will end there, lets face it Christians hate to read, they do not even read their own bible .
Clemburke1111 4 years ago
not true. reading is the jam. and that's your opinion and not fact. nice though.
cfdp529 4 years ago
cf, no, it is a fact, look up the Barna Study, it shows that Christians have a higher rate of incarceration and Divorce , way over atheist.
Clemburke1111 4 years ago
since when are any people, including christians, supposed to be perfect? weak. peace
cfdp529 4 years ago
cfdp: When they try to foist their religion on others and tell them what to do and how to think and live.
mespo727272 4 years ago
who? i highly doubt you are talking about me. Im not here to do that nor do I like when people do that. clearly someone has done this to you and it has angered you tons! maybe by commenting with me you will look at our posts and realize i've done nothing of the sort but stand up for what i believe while never crapping on what you believe. peace
cfdp529 4 years ago
They just read the happy lovey dovey stuff the church reads to them on sunday. Thats why they dont know how to respond when you point out that their bible commands them to kill three quarters of todays society.
pray4somesense 4 years ago
where...exactly where? IN THE TEN COMMANDMENTS? THOU SHALL NOT MURDER. wait...wasn't our country formed on these principles you crap on? peace
cfdp529 4 years ago
The bible does not promote a message of tolerance and peace, quite the opposite. Wonderful, one of the ten commandments is thou shall not murder...its just unfortunate that throughout the bible it commands you to murder non believers, gays, homosexuals, witches, those who work on a sunday, those who are not virgins on their wedding, those who dont listen to priests, fortune tellers, adulterers and fornicators...such a peaceful message.
pray4somesense 4 years ago
pray: I 'd say the bible is a mixed bag since it was written by so many people. It some places it does have a message of peace, in others a call to death and destruction. The problem is that folks like cfdp think its the unerring word of an omniscient creator--contradictions notwithstanding. Therefore everything they do is justified since they have god on their side making opponents the evil ones. That's why dogmatism is so pernicious.
mespo727272 4 years ago
Yup, it is a mixed bag, you're right. Though I can get my morals from elsewhere, I dont need a 2000 year old book to tell me how to live my life. Those that think it is relevant in this day and age are not far from those who read it literally and follow it to the extreme. We can follow the good standards described in it without faith. But it is the trap of blind faith that leads people to the most evil crimes against humanity. The moderate theists act as a shield for the extremists.
pray4somesense 4 years ago
pary: That's a good point. I don't think any thinking person really believes it is the best source of human morality. Just one of many espousing similar themes. That's what bothers me about these dogmatists, they just don't listen to any criticism since they are so sure they are correct. Pride goeth before the fall. How's that for some biblical wisdom?
mespo727272 4 years ago
yeah thats great! pride goeth before the fall. listen to your own words. its amazing that you still don't get it.
cfdp529 4 years ago
" its amazing that you still don't get it."
Get what? That you believe in something that has no proof. No shred of evidence. No logical basis. You have nothing, not a single fucking thing to substantiate your ridiculous beliefs. I do get it. You are extremely weak minded, as are those like you. Use your brain. Think outside what you are taught in sunday school. You have no reason to believe what you believe - so why do you?!
pray4somesense 4 years ago
simple. its truth. for what is seen is temporary and what is unseen is eternal. language!!! so now you're using your adult voice then huh? i have plenty of reasons...reasons in my life that He has changed for the better. i don't expect you to understand that with your logic. peace
cfdp529 4 years ago
"reasons in my life that He has changed for the better. i don't expect you to understand that with your logic."
The reason you wont tell me is because you know I have a sensible explanation, that doesnt require religious faith, for all of the reasons that you use to persuade yourself of Gods existence. And the funny thing is, you know that. I will just tell you the real reasons for these things he has 'changed for the better'. Not the dumbass religious interpretation.
pray4somesense 4 years ago
SURE ya will! look at you just bashin' along. i bet out of the two of us...you would be the violent one! ha. put that in your pipe and smoke it. peace
cfdp529 4 years ago
Thats why you wont tell me your 'personal reasons' for your belief. And how God has 'changed your life'. Because I will tell you the actual reasons for it. Reasons that actually make sense. And you know that my reasons will be more logical than yours. Because your entire belief is a sham. Its amazing that religion has survived to this day, but it will continue on, as long as parents and schools brainwash the children with thoughts of God and Jesus and walking on water, with no actual evidence.
pray4somesense 4 years ago
wow. sillyness runs rampant with you huh? you and your logic...thats your only defense. your just too simple minded to realize your not that intelligent.
cfdp529 4 years ago
You call me simple minded, yet you believe wholeheartedly in something you have been told, with no factual basis, evidence, or supporting argument. There is really no better example. You cant answer any of my questions because your religion doesnt equip you for rational conversation. Claiming the bible is the infallible word of god is a joke. Even most believers admit that. I suggest you stay in school until your reasoning mechanisms are fully developed. Peace.
pray4somesense 4 years ago
something i have and do read and feel with every ounce of my being...not what i have been told. what believers would they be? false converts? weak on your part...message me if you want to know. peace
cfdp529 4 years ago
cfdp: If you want to end the discussion fine. There is no reason to accuse someone of violent propensities simply because you are losing the argument. The criticisms leveled have been reasoned and legitimate questions have been asked. You have answered none of them. I also have a bet: out of the two of us you would be the one to accept anything someone in authority told you--whether it was moral or not. Put that in your incense burner and smoke it.
mespo727272 4 years ago 2
losing the argument? HA!! go ahead lets see your proof then. legitmate questions? really? which ones? i highly disagree with you...see i just proved you wrong. you're what...43 yrs old? authority there and look at that....im not accepting your "wisdom." come at me with some real evidence....message me so you can have all the space you want.
cfdp529 4 years ago
cfdp: I should have said an "authority" you now respect. Bottom line is that Pray and I need prove nothing. We aren't making the assertion - you are. Therefore you owe us an explanation which you have so far assiduously avoided. So I give it to you, besides your "feelings" give me some proof that what you say is true. No circular reasoning from your magic book allowed. Just give me some concrete and verifiable facts that what you say is better than worship of Zeus or Poseidon or whomever.
mespo727272 4 years ago
the initial assertion is that there is no link between religion and violence....and i still stand in that.
cfdp529 4 years ago
cfpd: "Tongue in cheek"-defined as "style of humor in which things are said only half seriously, or in a subtly mocking way." See last line. Yeesh!
mespo727272 4 years ago
so wrong you are. how is everything i do justified? give me an example. you guys are hilarious with your antics. infact, why don't you guys get some more people that feel the same way as you do against me. then you won't feel bad at all! haha.
cfdp529 4 years ago
you speak of the old testament. then there came a man named Jesus, who by his death, has taken all that away. yeah...peaceful. you got it! well done. peace
cfdp529 4 years ago
The new testament is just as bad as the the old one. In fact matthew writes that Jesus doesn't have the slightest objection to the cruelties in the old testament. All in all, it makes very little difference. The messages to kill and murder are written in your bible for anyone who wants to read it. Thats why there is a link between religion and violence. Because people are so sure that their beliefs are right, over everyone elses. And the funny thing is, you're all wrong. There is no god.
pray4somesense 4 years ago
says you of no faith. who are you to say that there is no God? nice touch by the way...trying to get me riled up huh? not gonna work!! silly people. it's just too bad you can't see past your hatred. maybe one day you'll have an open mind. peace
cfdp529 4 years ago
Well the fact that I dont have any faith puts me in a much better position to judge. Seeing as you do, you cant look at the situation rationally. You dont seem to understand. If I had reason to believe in the existence of God, I probably would, it would explain a lot of things. But there is just no good reason to. Not a single one. Not a shred of evidence to suggest his existence. The reason I can say he doesnt exist is because you cannot prove otherwise.
pray4somesense 4 years ago
And if when you say maybe one day I will have an open mind you mean believe in something blindly, just because someone has told me to. No. I will not. But good work, you're a wonderful example.
pray4somesense 4 years ago
im not telling you anything. where are you getting this from? i mean really...making stuff up is pretty childish. as for your judgement. Matthew 7:1 "do not judge, or you too will be judged. for in the same way you judge others, you will be judged." peace
cfdp529 4 years ago
cfdp: "you speak of the old testament. then there came a man named Jesus, who by his death, has taken all that away." Jesus disagrees: "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished." Matt.5:17-8.
mespo727272 4 years ago
matthew 5:19 "anyone who breaks one of the least of these COMMANDMENTS...." matt 5:38-39 "you have heard that it was said,eye for an eye, and tooth for tooth. but I tell you, do not resist an evil person. if someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also." your argument is not a strong one. peace
cfdp529 4 years ago
cdfp: No you just made it for. How can the unerring word of god be in conflict, unless it isn't.
mespo727272 4 years ago
not in conflict. what He is speaking of is humility and letting go of pride. peace
cfdp529 4 years ago
cfdp: Thanks for the interpretation. But if its true and unerring, why do I need your interpretation? Do you believe this is the inerrant word of the creator or not? If yes, why does it need your opinion on its meaning to resolve an obvious inconsistency.
mespo727272 4 years ago
there is no inconsistency....thats the issue. you THINK there is so therefore i have to explain it to you like i would a 5year old. oh and pray....that message thing goes for you too.
cfdp529 4 years ago
careful now....thou shalt not lie is also a commandment. throughout the bible? really? doubtful. looks like you're describing the old testament...again...verses please. what about the message of love...that Jesus came, died for us, and rose again so that belief in Him means that we would not suffer. Yes...a very peaceful message. peace
cfdp529 4 years ago
cfdp: Wow! What college do you go to. Don't you know that our country was founded on the principles of liberal democracy, separation of powers,individual rights, freedom, and respect for the individual. Principles which I am sure you agree is totally at odds with hierarchical religion. The founders weren't christian - they were deists having seen the mayhem wrought by religion. Take a policy sci class! love & soul.
mespo727272 4 years ago
pilgrims...they weren't christians? you sure about that? where do/did you go to school? take a history class!!! peace
cfdp529 4 years ago
cfdp: Yeah they were christians and they founded the Massachusetts Bay Colony. Convicts with Oglethorpe (himself an ex-con) founded Georgia. Was our nation founded on criminal ideas too? Funny you mention the Pilgrims and their successors the Puritans who brought us religious intolerance, rigid social codes and witch trials. Come on now with those unlettered comments I am sure you are at Bob Jones U, or Liberty U?
mespo727272 4 years ago
you only wish i attended those schools. haha. but really...what does it matter what school i go to. NONE. what if i told you i attend school at Pepperdine or Stanford? you fail to see that you expect christians to be perfect. when if fact that point is that we're not and are very aware of it. peace
cfdp529 4 years ago
cfdp: I am ecstatic you don't go there. They are beyond hope if they buy into all that. I think you are listening which is more than most do. I want you to consider what I say since I do have at least a little more life experience. I do wish you well. Peace
mespo727272 4 years ago
ah an insult in the nicest way!I never said I didn't. Your experience means nothing to me...and what i mean is that i don't know your life story so why would i consider your words that bash me? that would be quite foolish of me. thanks for the wishes and while you wish, ill pray for you. peace
cfdp529 4 years ago
cfdp; Amazed you caught it but glad you like it. Those who forget the past (or who ignore those who lived it) are condemned to repeat it.
mespo727272 4 years ago
if you have some real questions look at venomfangx's videos. he'll answer everything for you.
cfdp529 4 years ago
There is a clear link when people perform violent acts in a name of a God that doesn't stand for it. That would be slander and many, many people have done it. The knights templar and the kkk are two good examples. brimmjob you have obviously had very little education on the bible. Pick it up, read it, and you'll understand. peace
cfdp529 4 years ago
In Deuteronomy 13:12-16 God tells Christians it is their duty to put fellow citizens who wish to "serve other Gods" "to the sword". Pick it up, read it. You tell me if this is a peaceful message
condon1238 4 years ago
obviously i know your just picking this out and ill tell you to read a couple of pages before and after those four verses. these types of arguments further solidify your lack of understanding and your close mindedness. peace
cfdp529 4 years ago
There is NO LINK between religion and violence. I dunno but I'm pretty sure this guy can't read cuz if he knew how to he would have read the bible and realized that there is no link between violence and bible. There is a link between extremists that do terrible things in the name of God.
cfdp529 4 years ago
cfdp529 you have obviously had very little education on the the link between religion and violence. You really should read Sam Harris' Books and watch his lectures. No one should take you seriously if when you show a glaring ignorance to the claims of another's argument.
Brimmjob 4 years ago
Extremists are religious. Wether you like it or not. Therefore there IS a link between religion and violence. Its not a complex argument.
pray4somesense 4 years ago
extremists are slanderers. you're missing the point. i can do many things in the name of God but if that's not what God stands for. violence comes when people take things into their own hands. when they become megalomaniacs. just b/c they claim they're a part of it doesn't mean they are a part of it.
cfdp529 4 years ago
Im not missing your point. Your point is just wrong. Just because someone interprets the bible differently to you does not make their interpretation incorrect. If anything it is your interpretatino that is incorrect. Literalism and extremism atleast makes some sense. If you think that the good book is genuinely the word of god then you should be out kiling people, for it is commanded of you. Moderatism doesnt make any sense what so ever. So yes. There is a link between religion and violence.
pray4somesense 4 years ago
wow you're wrong. there is only one interpretation. what in the good book would make me go kill people? is it the "LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF?" yeah i guess that would make me go kill people. thanks again for making me smile. again....no link. peace
cfdp529 4 years ago
There isn't only one interpretation you simple minded fool. And the love your neighbour as yourself only applys to those neighbours who believe in the same thing as you do, the rest must be killed, for they are evil incarnate. You can deny it all you want. But you are incorrect. Even most believers are prepared to admit it. You could do with reading some of the bible if you dont know about the commands to kill in it.
pray4somesense 4 years ago
i know of the commands well, but i also know the context in which they were given. i highly doubt you do. all you can do is pick verses out and make it seem a certain way. i read plenty. go ahead there tough guy. give me some verses which you'll twist. peace
cfdp529 4 years ago
The context really doesn't matter. If the bible tells you to kill, regardless of its context, people will do it and use the bible as justification. People have done, are currently doing, and will continue to do this. Their belief in god is different to yours, but it still exists. I really dont have to give you verse, you know them already. You just choose to ignore them. Other people dont ignore them. They are just as religious as you are, just in a different way.
pray4somesense 4 years ago
ahhhh hahaha. no. not true. if you were a member of the kkk or the knights templar than ya...you would kill b/c you are an idiot. you argument is bogus. im a christian and have not killed nor will ever kill another human being. thats MURDER...one of the ten commandments. but you knew that right? peace
cfdp529 4 years ago
So let me get this straight. You're telling me Al-Qaeda is not a religious terrorist cell...right? Just a terrorist cell? If that is actually what you are saying, then I shall no longer be replying to your comments, as you are very very misguided.
pray4somesense 4 years ago
clearly your reading comp. is a little off. im precisely saying that fanatics like al-qaeda and the kkk ARE religious. they are EXTREMISTS. they are using religion to excuse their actions....not what religion is meant for. you're the one who is misguided...and silly. peace
cfdp529 4 years ago
My comprehension is fine. Your argument is just disjointed. You said earlier that those who use religion for evil are not truly religious. Now you say al qaeda are religous. Please make up your mind. You admit that al qaeda are religous extremists, but wont admit there is a link between religion and violence...please...just think for a moment...it really wont take long to make the association.
pray4somesense 4 years ago
Al qaeda do not use religion to excuse their actions. Their religous beliefs dictate their actions. They dont perform atrocities and then use the bible to excuse them, they genuinelly believe that it is their duty to perform such heinous crimes, as commanded by their god. Im sorry, but to deny the link between religion and violence, is to ignore everything that has happened in the world over the last 2 millenia. You dont even have an argument. You're just plain wrong.
pray4somesense 4 years ago
I mean that people take it out of context....like you and the maker of this video and the kkk and the jihadists. What holds this country and the world together is morals. Science and evolution don't provide that. Without religion, our world would be in more chaos than it already is. Plus...this guy is an idiot.
cfdp529 4 years ago
It's not religion that's the problem. It's the people who take it out of context and don't understand what's going on.
cfdp529 4 years ago
cfdp: I guess those "people" would be the religious. They either believe what their entire dogma says or they don't. If they do, they are dogmatists since every religion holds that it is the inspired word of the creator. If you simply pick and choose the portions of dogma that you like, you are by defintion outside of the religion. (con't)
mespo727272 4 years ago
con't: That cafeteria approach is taking religion out of context since religion is internally consistent in that its teaches that it is the only way and that it must be accepted in toto without conceding anything to a competing religion.
mespo727272 4 years ago
Very well said. Exactly what I think. Atleast extremism makes some logical sense. Moderatism, or cherry picking the bits you like, isn't real belief anyway. If you genuinely believed the bible to be the word of god you wouldn't disregard any of it.
pray4somesense 4 years ago
im not just picking things that i like. thats where you are confused. i like the whole book. every part. now if you want to hear why i follow Christ and why you should to then by all means ask away. if not....im not going to tell you why. You guys are the ones that pick and choose which parts you like and dislike...not me. peace
cfdp529 4 years ago
cfdp: Ok I 'll take you at your word that you don't pick and choose. You must then necessarily believe that your god also allows slavery, including selling your own daughter as a sex slave (Exodus 21:1-11), child abuse (Judges 11:29-40 and Isaiah 13:16), and bashing babies against rocks (Hosea 13:16 & Psalms 137:9). Do you really?
mespo727272 4 years ago
I dont even have to look at my bible to know that all you did was pick these to form your rediculous case. Have you even read exodus? God delivers the Jews from slavery and makes a covenant to them, that they are His people and He will and does fulfill His covenant to them. You just did what I knew you would. Weak argument...tell me that you honestly read all of exodus, judges, isaiah, hosea, and psalms...if you did then I'm 100% positive you would retract your comment.
cfdp529 4 years ago
second attempt at posting. You just did what i said you would. You chose the parts that will make the bible look like a book of hatred. I will bet my life that you did not read anything but those verses. I challenge you to read all those books...the whole way through and tell me that you still want to keep your silly post up. peace
cfdp529 4 years ago
cfdr: Unlike most of the bible thumpers, I have read these passages, and you can't dispute that these inhuman acts are all sanctioned by the creator. Just because you don't like the ideas doesn't mean they are out of context. I don't have to read the entire work to understand the context of "books" that were wriiten independently and later complied into the christian bible. (con't)
mespo727272 4 years ago
(con't) The oldest ploy in the world is taking clear --though horrific-- statements and softening their obviously outlandish meanings with the excuse that they are "taken out of context."
mespo727272 4 years ago
hahaha. wow for a second there i thought i saw that you actually read those passages. The whole books of exodus, psalms, hosea, isaiah, AND judges huh? thats crazy that you read that much in such a short time. clearly you have NOT read the entire passages. nice try though....peace
cfdp529 4 years ago
cfdp:
passage: A segment of a written work
book: A printed or written literary work.
Maybe you can ubderstand the difference now. I have flascards for you if not. Btw I have read the other fairy tales and they make about as much sense as your comments. Thanks for avoiding the issue--it makes my proof easier.
mespo727272 4 years ago
cdfp: def: book: A printed or written literary work; def: passage: a segment of a literary work. Will we need flashcards to help you? Btw thanks for avoiding the argument, it makes my case stronger, and I have read the entire work fyi just not yesterday. Those fairy tales sound a lot like your comments...Piece!
mespo727272 4 years ago
Sorry for the double up. The first one didn't go through or so I thought. I like my revised one better anyway.
mespo727272 4 years ago
book....book of judges, book of psalms, book of exodus. passage.....is a set of verses. you're being silly. and im not avoiding your argument. fairy tales...your opinion...thats fine. flashcards...trying to talk down to me huh? nice...real mature. haha. i appreciate your humor. peace
cfdp529 4 years ago
The arrogance is on your side of the argument. We who question do not hold ourselves out as the emissaries of the divine, unerring creator. That's your gig. We simply ask that if you make extraorinary claims like virgin birth, or miralculous resurrection, or live after death, that you provide us with extraordinary evidence. Sorry about the flascards but feigned stupidity deserves such a response.
mespo727272 4 years ago
again...real cute with the cut down. grow up! there's plenty of evidence, there is just a lack of clarity on your part. i see well...you're just blinded by your hatred of truth. i just hope you can look at our discussions and see that YOU'VE been the one attacking me. thanks again for the insults. peace
cfdp529 4 years ago
Oh dear. Where is the evidence you say is so plentiful? Ill tell you. It only exists in your mind. And we dont hate the truth, we seek it. We dont just accept some ridiculous story as fact, as you appear to. Its funny how you see yourself as under attack, when really were just intrigued as to how you can possibly believe what you do. I guess that is what it must feel like when your religion leaves you unequipped to deal with a questioning mind.
pray4somesense 4 years ago