1980 Moscow Olympics Womens 200m

[saturnia22]

I agree with dehart5.

There should be a side list for enhanced times. Starting back in the 70's when the GDR first came into power in swimming, they told the world it was due to weightlifting and 19-22 km per day training, then the world started training at those ridiculous lengths to hope to keep up, all it did was burn athletes out until they had to retire now a smart 15km is the norm for even the top swimmers, it was such a lie back then, and such a shame nobody will stand up for whats right

[jubbadupa]

Gosh she is ugly and looks awful from all those drugs

[dehart5]

The times during the 80's and some in the 90's should be kept in a different book called enhanced drug use. The drugs allowed these athletes to recover and that is so critical to running well in the sprints. They had ability to mask the steriods and there is no doubt many of these women used drugs. I can tell you that training methods have improved dramtically and the athlete as well but the times have not and that is due to the steriods, this is not a lie!

[Ptrgamb]

Drug cheat wins

[Sileeee56]

Merlene Ottey is still competing! She is 50!

[MarlonBrandoSoSexy]

I don't feel compelled to glorify every Eastern Bloc athlete but some were magnificent. Youtubers like to ASSume. Some believe themselves to be researchers and political analysts. What ignorance. Eastern Bloc athletes tested positive for prohibited substances back in the 60s and through the 70s, 80s and early 90s. So are we to presume that Kazankina and Suplianek tested positive but Koch and Gohr were given the easy road? Stop being so presumptuous.

[davordanach]

Too much ass-umption here.

[MrMasahan]

東ドイツ史上最強の女子スプリンターの一人、Ｍ・コッホ。

[McKottfars]

What's really sick is that Ottey's last championship was in 2006!! (and that was the European Championship, none the less! She competed for Slovenia then)

[404Orion]

MERLENE OTTEY , GOLD !!

[camberra1985]

PARA jhecht 424-

que me decis vos de todos los atletas y nadadores que son tan grande o peor que las alemanas orientales-estos si parecen hombres(solamente que pintan y peina para disimular.como lo hacia FLO-FLO) y los varones parecen unos monstruos(blancos y negros) Y NADIE OPINA AL RESPECTO-ADEMAS MUCHOS PAISES LE HA COPIADO A LA RDA- LOS METODOS Y TODOS SE CALLAN

[zim83]

Venga, hombre, deja de decir tonterías. La gente normal, es decir, la mayoría, critica TANTO a las atletas de la RDA que eran simples productos de una máquina estatal dedicada a drogar a sus deportistas COMO a tramposos monumentales de otros países como Flo-Jo o Ben Johnson.

[diverlx]

Claro que tens razão!

[camberra1985]

otra fantastica alemana oriental las diosas del atletismo femenino

[jhecht424]

Cuales diosas? Mas como tramposas drogadas que parecian hombres.

[ROUGHBULL]

why do they only talk about the east germans? i`ve never heard something about botschina before the moscow games and after there did not happen a lot too! at the moscow games there were some very strange results of soviet athletes that they never confirmed later!

[gorhman]

Well, soviet athletes didnt have to afront a reunification as germany. I guess neighbours from the west werent too happy as far as sharing old records from the GDR is concerned...

[zim83]

Thanks for the posts, gohrman.

[sequiaonda78]

Sad, for the sport, I think USa and Soviet Union had dopped sprinters also, but not supported for the goverment.

[Marchjoy1963]

Of course they did !The 3 medaliist here r all on drugs.

[421897]

Regarding Koch specifically:

"In an extensive examination of Stasi files for their revelatory 1991 book, Doping-Dokumente, Brigitte Berendonk and Werner Franke uncovered a list of annual dosages of Oral-Turinabol administered to Koch. They also unearthed a letter from Koch to Jenapharm, complaining that Wöckel was given stronger doses of steroids because her uncle was president of the pharmaceutical company."

Not quite the athletic heroine - or even the innocent pawn, eh?

[athlete5399]

Wow, I never knew that! Yes, sheds a new light on Koch that she was knowingly cheating!

[421897]

I think we all knew what the score was anyway. I'm sure Rab agrees with us secretly - I reckon he's just being contrary to provoke a discussion.

Thanks for another good vid by the way!

[athlete5399]

My pleasure! And thanks for all that information, very informative! I completely agree with you. There really should be a more official investigation and records eradicated, and even results adjusted!

[421897]

With typical efficiency, the East Germans kept extensive records, many of which survived the collapse of the state, so their guilt is beyond doubt.

I do wonder if our girls ever feel bitter about being cheated out of so many medals. And I don't just mean Sonia & co - for example, shot-putter Judy Oakes would've been near the top of the rankings but for the freaks from behind the Iron Curtain.

[athlete5399]

Yes, Judy Oakes kind of got swamped out of it because of their 'power' and size!

[Parker528]

@421897 Well, while Flo Jo was very likely juiced in the 1988 season, as in the Olympics, Ashford, obviously NOT juiced, showed the GDR you don't need Oral-Turinabol to win 4 x 100, as the US did in Seoul, with Ashford flying past Goehr in that awesome anchor leg by Ashford.

[greggles1902]

@Parker528 the us athletes were on as much gear as anyone...even now they are the biggest users with more us athletes getting caught now than any other country...before they had the power to cover it all up but not now. im english and our athletes use gear. in my opinion 90% of track and field medalists from 1980 used some sort of enhancements.

[Parker528]

@greggles1902 Is it slang as gear in the UK then? Never heard that before. Interesting. About 90% of the medalists from 80 being juiced, I agree, but note that many medalists were Eastern bloc, and therefore possibly were systematically juiced due b/c of state policy, like in GDR. Until 88 and Seoul, I never saw or heard any us tracks athletes. And so hearing for example, Alice Brown talk in her post 4 x 100 relay interview with such a DEEP voice made me immediately think she had gear!

[Parker528]

@421897 Our female swimmers from Montreal DEFINITELY feel cheated and even recently attempted to sue the IOC to be awarded medals they didn't win when doped GDR girls won betters medals or in many cases, swept ALL 3 medals in races. Wendy Boglioli, who was team captain in 76, is the most vocal and known for being outspoken in trying to get the IOC to acknowledge that the GDR athletes were doped and recognizing those who would have medaled had those girls not been in the races. Google her.

[zim83]

There have been loads of official investigation and swimmers like Sharron Davies or Shirley Babashoff have asked for their golds to be recognized. Then you have East German champions asking for their records to be scrapped. The IOC and other organization have so far refused to do so arguing that it is really difficult to determine which records and medals were valid and which weren't. It's very sad. I think the high point was Seoul where most medals were achieved on drugs.

[RabCGiblet]

So surely if thats the case as i have pointed out we have to accept that, because at the end of the day theres just not enough proof.

athlete5399 made a valid point in there should be a massive endeavour to investigate big names more and make people accountable and then judge accordingly.

But hand me down Golds, hardly satisfying is it?

[zim83]

The thing is those big names HAVE been identified as far as GDR is concerned and they've been sentenced. But somehow all those inquiries have not been translated into a change in the official results.

[RabCGiblet]

Do you think they ever will zim83?

[RabCGiblet]

But your right about Seoul, these games will be remembered for all the wrong reasons.

[Parker528]

@athlete5399 A handful of US female swimmers from Montreal tried in the late 90's, even suing the USOC for not acting on their behalf to get the medals they felt they deserved after all the trials were completed in Germany. Unfortunately, the biggest issue is that, since the GDR doctors were able to know exactly what day before a race a athlete had to stop drugs, there was never any proof of drug use in competition, and back then we didn't have random, out of competition testing.

[Parker528]

@athlete5399 Also, at the 76 GDR after the 76 GDR Olympic trials, it by then had been state policy to test every girl before she left the country, and if she tested positive for anything illegal, she was held back. The then 400 meter freestyle world record holder Barbara Krause was left out for her docs missing the right day to stop giving her the drugs, & so she was left behind, and the GDR told the press she had an attack of angina, so she went on to 3 golds in Moscow. Standard GDR practice.

[Parker528]

@athlete5399 Yes, that's true, and well documented about Koch's complaints to Jenapharm AND I believe she also was vocal about it with the nation's top sports doctor, who I THINK was named Lothar Kipke. She absolutely knew that the coaches were slipping them steroids (oral-turinabol most likely) and had to know the injections they started receiving right before competition was a testosterone derivative that the GDR doctors knew would not be detected in post race urine tests.

[Parker528]

@athlete5399 Also scandalous, is that that East German doctor, Kipke, was on the FINA (INt'l swimming governing body) doping panel for determining what drugs were illegal and he therefore knew exactly what form of testosterone COULD be injected into the girls right before races, without detection, until like 88, when they finally had advanced tests to detect it. This was specifically addressed on a bio on PBS recently on the systematic doping at the highest levels.

[RabCGiblet]

You see the problem is she was never caught, so there fore not proven. Innocent till proven guilty, just because there are some bad ones doesnt mean they were all bad. Koch and Wockel didnt even have the build of a doper and until proof is shown that they were and are stripped of their medals etc like Jones then i will have to give the benefit.

[zim83]

47.60 is not proof enough for you? That innocent until proven guilty thing can be used to maintain their records in the books, but everyone knows they were doped to their eyebrows and so do they. Wockel and Koch's names are in the oral-turinabol list. As compared to other dark periods in their history, I'm amazed at seeing Germany sweep this massive scandal under the carpet.

[RabCGiblet]

47.60 is not as fearsome as what it once was. Look at kochs 1980 quarter victory which has been beaten in other Olympics since then. Maria Jose perec 48.25, Guevera 48.89 and i believe Sanya Richards is capable of anything on her day. As for Germany sweeping under the carpet, it shouldnt be left to them in this case. If there are descrepencies and nasty memories on this it will have to be all brought up and addressed again at some point, otherwise its just a total and complete nonsence.

[zim83]

Ottey made no effort whatsoever to cross the finish line ahead of the second-placed Soviet (not Russian, BBC commentator).

[ozinmanc]

and if you look at Mullers crotch at the 11 second mark as she gets into the blocks, you can see her cock move under her shorts!!

[RabCGiblet]

Thats as servicable a minge peace as i have ever seen, no 3 peice suite there.

[athlete5399]

hehehe, you make me laugh :-)

[ozinmanc]

I believe that Wockel had a baby earlier on in the year without permission from the East German authorities and they weren't very happy about it.

[zim83]

That's interesting. I wonder whatever happened to her since her 1985 retirement. Another suspicious East German champion. Or rather proven cheater since her name was on various files and after all, all East German athletes were part of the sinister state-sponsored doping program. For once, I think the 1980 gold belongs to Ottey.

[RabCGiblet]

I totally disagree with you, all athletes were tested rigoursly at the moscow Olympics and Wockel proved Negative in her dope tests. And if East Germany had this so called state-sponsored doping programme why did the men not rise to the same heights of success as the women?

Lets give due where its entitled, the East German girl sprinters were a one off Golden Generation, and its not unusual, other countries have turned out one off champions as well.

[zim83]

No way. It is a proven fact that the doping practices focused on women. And after Illona Slupianek was caught in a doping test in 1977, the doctors running the program issued orders in order to stop giving drugs several weeks prior to major events so that they went undetected. After that, they carried out their own tests to ensure all traces had been eliminated. These "golden girls" were used as mere tools to promote the regime through sports and administered criminal amounts of drugs.

[RabCGiblet]

Thats some accusations your coming out with there, i assume you heard all this mischeif when the wall came down. First of all these mengle like practices you say are they common knowledge in the sports world? And if so even the years ater the wall came down has there been investigations? Inquires? Arrests? Because if what you say has any credence then a massive can of worms must be opened and people made accountable for this even 28 years later.

If not, then its best left well alone.

[zim83]

Yes, yes and yes. In fact loads of athletes have received compensations, the courts have ruled Germany can be held liable as it has acquired the responsabilities dating back to GDR and authorities like Lothar Lipke, chief doctor and former nazi Manfred Ewald and Manfred Hoppner were given suspended sentences. Jenapharm has been put on trial. Athletes like Schneider or Spigel have asked for their records to be removed. It's all well-documented.

[RabCGiblet]

I still stand by my comment that they would have used the men as well.

The Stasti files, do you kno who has them today? If they still exist.

[zim83]

Loads of them in Berlin, available to former athletes who have since then had access to them. I insist, it's been documented that they focused on women. The reasons, I don't know, maybe the competition among men was stronger and more difficult to overcome even through cheating.

[RabCGiblet]

Ad koch and wockels acheivements?

[zim83]

Along with the disclosed STASI files, you have accounts by the athletes and swimmers themselves: Olympic champions like Andrea Pollack, Rica Reinisch, Petra Schneider, Petra Thümer, Ruth Fusch, Heidi (Andreas) Krieger and others have admitted to unknowingly having been subject to state-sponsored and monitored doping practices. That's one of the most shameful episodes in sports history. So no golden girls, rather poor young women subject to Mengele-like practices.

[RabCGiblet]

But compared to the ladies of 88 i wouldnt have thought she has a lot to worry about as far as suspicion is concerned.

[421897]

Oh the memories! Kathy was 5th in 22.61, just outside Sonia's UK record of 22.58. The USSR's Natalya Bochina, the 18yo silver medallist, seemed to emerge as if by magic just in time for the Games and sank without trace, so her achievements must be viewed with suspicion.

[RabCGiblet]

Not saying i totally disagree with you, but Bochina was running Junior races in 79, and also was at the Euro cup in 81 where Kath Smallwood finished ahead of her, this was her best ever race though.

But how many people out there will remember her name i wonder.