Your sister would be alive if she was toting a .45 that day. As a brother that loves his sisters dearly I am very very sorry for your loss my friend. But when people snap and decide to do bad things there is no law that is going to stop them or even slow them down. By unarming good civilians you're welcoming another massacre. You have to FIGHT FIRE WITH FIRE.
It's very unfortunate so many were lost at V-tech. It also unfortunate he's ignorant of the true facts. Gun laws only take guns away from people that obey them. Someone bent on killing people will break the laws to get them. Stricter gun laws wouldn't have made any difference. He was already breaking the law bringing guns to campus. Those laws didn't slow him down. Neither would more assinine gun laws.
Criminals do not buy guns Legally!! They can check all they want, if someone wants a gun they will get it that is why they are criminals!! PEOPLE use your God given brain to think of what you are going to say before what you say makes you look like an idiot!
Would any of the very stupid liberal posters here like to explain to me why I had to pass a federal backround check for each of the thirteen weapons I have purchased at gun shows over the last 10 years.
And exactly, what loophole was it that I was "getting around"?
I mean, I'm really tired of filling out all these forms. How come I have to and the criminals and robbers somehow don't. Is there somehow a special door, I failed to enter?
Samaha , an 18-year-old senior at Westfield High School in Chantilly, was driving on Fairfax County Parkway with his best friend on Nov. 4, 2001, when he lost control of the car because he was driving recklessly. The car crashed into the oncoming lanes and flipped. Samaha 's friend was killed.
When his classmates graduate next month [..] Samaha says he will be going off to jail, though he's reluctant to talk about it.
What the fuck does a gun show have to do with anything. What's next? The guvment tellin' me I can't sell my lawnmower to someone because they might take it home and run over their kids foot?
What a shame, if ONE student over 21 had been carrying a concealed weapon and confronted this guy, it is highly likely he would have been stopped at that point. I find it both interesting and disturbing how inaccurate and uneducated the vast majority of anti-gun advocates are.
This reminds me of the December 9, 2007 shooting at the New Life mega-church in Colorado Springs, CO. Jeanne Assam (one of the church's volunteer security guards and who suggested that security be beefed up after the Youth With A Mission shooting in Arvada, CO) confronted the shooter and stopped him by shooting him several times. While it's sad that lives were lost at the New Life church, at least a massacre was averted.
Yes a private citizen selling a gun to another private citizen from another state is already illegal. There is not loophole, these fools just want to see gun shows stopped altogether because the perceive them as where all illegal guns come from.
Omar killed his friend who was the passenger in his car when he was racing as a teenager. Don't see him talking out about that?!?!? But now he wants the government regulating guns? If liberals like him were in charge, nobody but Criminals would be able to buy guns!
Seems to me like he is fighting to allow criminals to run free unchecked. I feel for his loss but he clearly does not understand crime rates and patterns related to gun control laws. He is on a mis guided quest with OUR rights at risk.
No, he's just saying that Omar is a flawed in his personality, personal responsibility, and logic as you are. And as is, the rest of your kind of braindead liberal logic . Now, pumpkin, go fvck yourself.
Fact is, one teacher or even a student of criminology (of adult age and appropriately armed) at VT could have stopped the massacre. And yet you don't get it.
I bought a shotgun from a man at a gun show with only cash. I only told him my first name.
THIS DOES HAPPEN. You can deny it all you want- but give me a reason why it is unreasonable to check if someone is a criminal before you sell them a gun. I support the second amendment, and mandatory background checks just make sense.
What does this suppose "Gun Loop Hole" have to do with Virgina Tech, it is completely irrelevant. Cho Seung-Hui(the killer) obtained his through legal means even passing a background check. No law can deter murder. maybe if there were more firearms it would have ended a lot sooner
I wonder what this mongrel would say if his sister was stabbed instead of being shot. It's laughable. Look at the law banning anyone from having guns on school campuses. Proof that the Jew system is rigged against non-Jews. We should ban kitchen knives and rocks! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
'Completely unchecked'... My grandmother went to buy my cousin (who is going to GA Tech) a Glock 19 at a gunshow in Atlanta. She brought all her records with her because in GA, gun show vendors have the ability to give federal checks. She was denied a firearm because of a marriage and a last name change. How is that a gap in a law? Gun shows are perfectly safe, and sanctioned, here in GA. These people need to realize that laws don't prevent CRIMINALS from performing CRIMINAL acts.
If I was in that classroom, and the university did not foolishly make it a "gun free zone", I would have saved your sister for you. But I wish you were fighting for the right cause.
A psycopath can walk into a classroom anytime they want and start murdering people, but if a legal, law abiding citizens chooses to arm himself at college, you call it "war in the class room". Wake up.
Stop being scared of guns. Read the facts. Do some research. Get past your irrational fear of firearms and accept their overwhelming benefit. Despite the fact that we have the liberty to carry them whether you understand or not.
Yes, it works. Criminals are less apt to mug, rob, rape, and kill people. Criminals are more apt to be killed. South FL the local thugs go after tourists who don't carry weapons, not the locals, as they are armed.
I always love reading in Miami about thugs who are shot and killed by a would be victim who was armed.
Yes, we do. If you do not care to participate that is fine, but do NOT trample MY constitutional right to protect myself. Next time I might just be your sorry, worthless sheeps butt that gets saved by my legally and responsibly carried fire arm.
Do you constantly do drills in a classroom scenario where you are prepared to respond to a threat like that? Are you a steady shot when someone else is shooting at you? Or, better yet, do you have precognitive abilities so you could have seen what Cho was going to do so you could save ALL the people who died that day? The first person who died that day didn't have a moment's notice. Unless you are inhumanly fast, you couldn't have saved him. So shut. up. Save a few lives, or save 32. I vote 32.
@Buffalowdown So you constantly do drills in a classroom scenario where you are prepared to respond to a threat like that? Are you a steady shot when someone else is shooting at you? Or, better yet, do you have precognitive abilities so you could have seen what Cho's plans? Could you save ALL the people who died that day? The 1st person who died that day didn't have a moment's notice. Unless you are inhumanly fast, you couldn't have saved him. Shut up. Save a few lives, or save 32. I vote 32.
Nobody knows exactly how they would respond in a situation like that. The point is, carrying a gun as gives you options. If you are unarmed, then you are at the mercy of the murdering bastard. Your logic will never make sense to me. You argue that saving lives may be difficult, so don't attempt to prepare yourself, and dont fight back?
Yes, plenty of people are and can. Just because you are unable to defend yourself does not mean the rest of the world has followed your pansy assed example. In fact, i would bet you are out of touch in a lot of other areas of life, as well.
What you fail to realize is that it doesnt matter. The point is, you can give yourself a fighting chance and try to save lives, or you can be a defenseless piece of meat. If you choose to be a piece of meat curled up in the corner hoping you dont get picked, then have fun with that. I'm gonna keep carrying my gun. And any institution that strips this liberty away from citizens has failed terribly.
The "loophole" is a joke. If you stop private sellers from being able to sell at gun shows, then criminals will just buy them from other sources, and we are only talking about the few criminals that actually go to police-infested gun shows. Most criminals either buy their guns off the streets or steal them, not go to gun shows. Besides, we should be carrying guns, not further restricting gun rights. The shooters at columbine broke 17 gun laws, one more wouldn't have saved lives, a gun would.
Of course they don't make them, and very few of these guns come from Mexico. Criminals either steal them, or buy them off the streets from other criminals. Gun shows are not the most welcome places for criminals, usually there is a lot of police/law enforcement present. And dealers cannot sell guns in this manner, that's the kind of crap that misleads the public (like you have been). Dealers must use background checks before sales, it's private citizens that can make private sales.
"From other criminals"- But where do the guns originate? A lot of them are stolen, surely. ATF figures cite 30 percent of firearms in federal trafficking cases can be tracked back to gun shows and private sellers.
I have not been mislead. I bought a shotgun from a private seller- who did not ask for ID or run a background check.
I could have been an intelligent criminal- I wouldn't need to be welcome.
No guns allowed on school grounds, 30BulletHoles!! For some reason murderers never see those sign postings!!
If I was still in college and they were disarming students "to make them safer", I'd have a pistol concealed on my ankle like always and just keep my mouth shut about it.
Criminals normally don't buy guns at gunshows. They buy them off the streets for half the price. I saw a video earlier and they were saying the majority of illegal handguns were obtained thru gun shows. Then in the same video they said it was 30% thats not a majority. Then I did some research to find that the 30% was counting all private sales as illegal. If you can't find some good facts to support your cause it probably not worth supporting.
But where do street guns come from? Even if background checks keep one single gun from a criminal (who could kill you, or your family) isn't that worth the slight inconvenience?
Each gun matters, and it's important the right people are holding them.
This is the general stance of pro-gun advocates (like myself). Even with a million gun laws, you will not be able to prevent criminals from doing horrible things with guns (the Columbine shooters broke 17 gun laws in committing their acts by the way). You could outright ban guns, and criminals would still get their hands on them and use them. It is impossible to prevent guns from getting in the hands of criminals, so why not just be prepared instead of legislating our rights away?
That nra add that they ran for mcdonnell just goes to show how much of an intolerant bigot this person is, That goes to show the nra will even run adds supporting a bigot to get their agenda across.
How fucking retarded. Do they think that if Choo was to get denied getting a gun because of a back ground check, that he wouldn't kill those people. He just would have bought one off the street. These politicians are so fucking stupid its mind numbing.
It seems the blame is always addressed towards where the weapon came from not the maniac that used it. If someone wants to kill you not getting a gun isn't going to stop them. There are knives blunt objects etc. Don't forget Cain didnt kill Abel with a 9mm. If someone can find the funding to have officers on hand to run a name and date of birth at the door it would stop there. Not the best idea would take some time. I challenge everyone to come up with an idea. It only takes one good one.
• A 2006 FBI study of criminals who attacked law enforcement officers found that within their sample, None of the [attackers] rifles, shotguns, or handguns were obtained from gun shows or related activities.
• A Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) report on Firearms Use by Offenders found that fewer than 1% of U.S. crime guns came from gun shows
• A 2000 BJS study, Federal Firearms Offenders, 1992-98, found only 1.7% of federal prison inmates obtained their gun from a gun show.
Sorry for your loss Omar..no one wants this to happen to a loved one. Does closing this loophole guarantee that your sister's murderer would not have obtained a weapon? Unfortunately...no, sick individuals will use whatever means that are available. The Bloomberg sting is just another way to push the anti-gun movement into the limelight. They are targeting sellers in a shitty economy to look the other way for a lucrative sale. It's borderline entrapment. Criminals/insane folks don't obey the law
You're sadly, making a straw man argument. Implying one argument pertains to the other.
They do not.
As a gun rights supporter, I see the need to make it much harder for criminals to obtain weapons for the street. 30% of illegal guns found on the street are obtained through gun shows and private "collectors" who ignore existing law.
The NRA offers no alternatives to reduction of street weapons. Existing law clearly does not work.
Offer a functional alternative. American's are dying for one.
"Tyrants from Hitler to Mao to Stalin have sought to disarm their own citizens, for the simple reason that unarmed people are easier to control. Our Founders, having just expelled the British army, knew that the right to bear arms serves as the guardian of every other right. This is the principle so often ignored by both sides in the gun control debate. Only armed citizens can resist tyrannical government."
Believe me dan, you and your guns are no match against the monopoly in violence the government is able to marshall at a dime's notice. If our government turned tyrannical (which we all know is next to impossible considering the constitutional checks n balances). Unless ur backyard has F-22 raptors, rocket launchers, tanks etc, ur guns are a threat to your children, neighbors, law enforcement etc. In your wildest dream, you could not come close to matching the gov. Stay away from the Northeast.
Exactly dan, I can bet that no policeman or military man in his right mind will attack their own citizens, and no I don't think any American president (not even VP Darth Cheney) can give such an order. However, I can bet all my money that they will rain hard on the occasional anti-government, self-appointed "militia", defending his idea of the "constitution".
You don't understand, transnational private military contractors(like americanpolicegroup com) are the loophole to the posse commitatus act. That and all the free military gear they give some state and local police. Our military wouldn't have to get involved at all.
oh man, so much misinformation spread by these gun grabbers, it really makes me sad. Guess what, even if this gun show "loophole" had been closed, the VT shooter could have purchased his guns, he had no history that would show up on a BG check!
These damn Liberals (I consider myself a liberal, but I'm pro 2nd Amend.) spread lies about school shootings to further their agenda in disarming the populace. If you read the FACTS, you will not support these further gun bans. Educate yourselves.
"The simple fact is that an armed citizenry is not the basis for our freedoms. Our freedoms rest on a moral consensus, enshrined in law, that in a democratic republic we work out our differences through reasoned, and sometimes raucous, argument. Free elections and open debate are not rooted in violence or the threat of violence. They are precisely the alternative to violence, and guns have no place in them."
This NIMBY attitude is much too prevalent in the gun rights arena. The media has done a great job of selling the 2nd amendment down the river.
They have you believe that if you're not a body-shaven sandal-wearing Commie supporter that you are the enemy of America.
Nothing could be farther from the truth. The taking of Constitutional rights from one American is a theft from all. Do your part to ensure our government lives in fear of you. VOTE.
I'm for the 2nd Amendment - You have the Right to Bear Arms - but we can add the fine print now. But if you think thats not fair - then think about this - The Right to Free Speech - I should be able to say whatever the fuck I want on a plane - like Man I hope nobody has a bomb - Oh is that a boxcutter - Hey, is the door to the cockpit locked? - Hmm that seems to be a problem - wierd I didn't see that fine print for that Right. Gun Owners follow those rules - then no problem & God Bless the 2nd
If the Gun is discovered to be used in a violent crime - the registered owner banned from owning guns + Jail Time + Fine
If these are ok with Gun Owners - then you can own Tanks & Bazookas for all I care. There is nothing wrong with collecting them - if you got the disposable cash to buy those high end weapons.
Only Standard ammo sold - No Specialized Ammo - unless you go through another round of background checks. Only hand held guns to be used for self-defense/property defense - seems fair
Its a fucking video game for the gun rights with no restrictions people. Anyone tries to go on a rampage again, people in the street will just pull out their guns & gun the bitch down, bullets flying all across the street/park/library/where-the-fuck-ever. Hell Yeah! Fuck the Drive-by Gangstas...we can take care of it on our own!
If you can drive a car at 16 - then let them own guns too. Anti-gun folks, you're wasting your breath - they're just too motherfucking stupid to understand. They think they need to have guns to protect themselves from the government. If the Government wants to come get you - they fucking will whether you got a goddamn gun or not. For Columbine - they say if the high school kids could own guns those two shitbags would've been put down sooner - just like all the other psychotic rampages...
In relation to private sales between private individuals, the government has no oversight. The strict laws and regulation regarding the sale of firearms comes from those that are licensed, certified dealers. I would never want the federal government to get involved if I wanted to sell a friend or someone else one of my old guns that I wanted to sell, it's a fine line between being stupidly over "safe" and the government getting more involved in our personal lives.
In the state of Virginia ANY person can buy a gun REGARDLESS of where you buy it. People go to gun shows to sell there guns because MORE PEOPLE ARE THERE. MORE THERE =BETTER CHANCE TO SELL THE WEAPON.
One inconvenience turns into 15 different laws. Rights lost are rights never gained back. I also find it funny that people blame the deaths on the guns and not on the psychopath.
so if u were in the school would u rather be a defenseless victim tryin to call the police or u would do somthing inorder to prevent further killing by havin a gun by ur side
Not selling guns to criminals and the mentally ill..."fvcked up logic"....Yeah?
You must have bought your 13 guns through FFL's. Private sales do not require background checks. I know this because I bought a gun that way. I could have been a criminal, or mentally ill. They are not required to check. I'd like that to be fixed, and require a background check like an FFL sale, that's all.
@danent657 sweety you are truly one braindead individual. Bloomberg and the brady campaign invents "the gunshow loophole" and you follow along like some good communist party member under Stalin. Bloomberg wants all guns out of private hands. This is just "the next step" in the overall plan to have the government on both sides of the sale of weapons which is the preceding step to universal registration. Univ registration is the last step before universal confiscation.
Bloomberg has already been in some serious constitutional legal hot water for sending NY city agents to other states to make fraudulent straw purchases. Trying to put local gun dealers out of business. Somehow this little dictator of NY city thinks he has the power to do the investigative work of the federal agents of the BATF.
This is a dangerous "dictator to be" at work here, and you are enthralled by his bullshit .
@danent657 sugarpie!!! Actually I am very polite to normal people. Long ago on the "internets" I was very polite to all. But it all came to an end, when I discovered stupid, braindead, worthless, chickensh*t, motherfvckers like yourself really existed. All behind me now.
The reason the GUNSHOW is a problem is because it is a place for Conservative Christian law abiding republicans to congregate and buy guns. How are the Democrats going to convert us to communism if we are able to share our patriotic views and weapons with each other. To a liberal Democrat, the gunshow is the unholiest of unholies.....LOL
If they gave a damn about crime and death they'd be cleaning up their democratic murder zones like L.A., NYC and Chicago
The killer that committed murder at Virginia Tech didn't buy his guns at a gun show. Maybe you should have grown some balls and carried a gun to stop the murders instead of taking guns away from Americans that have the fucking RIGHT to own guns.
wow i would hate to live in a society by your rules... you should really think before you speak... ok if the VT killer didnt get it from a gunshow, where from? and you're saying carry a gun and go kill anyone who looks suspicious before they MIGHT just pulla a gun on you. not really but hey, lets be safe! you dumb fuck, that won't solve anything. people will always kill others regardless of their motive. closing the loophole will reduce the amount, not stop it. and that's the whole point.
he bought the guns at a pawn shop... carrying a gun would help cuz after he let off 2 rounds hed be dead. 2 vs how many 20+? taking guns aint gonna do nothing. cuz then all he woulda did was come in with a sword or axe and hacked up the same number of people only diff is you wouldnt hear it meaning thered be no warning. meaning more people could die.
Why no talk about the knife loophole? Don't criminals use knives to kill innocent people? A typical kitchen knife set can equip a dozen criminals with the tools they need to kill. Yet, why no background check for these things at Target or Wal-Mart?
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
RaidingWindmills: Your comment is plain nonsense. If edged weapons were as efficient at killing people as guns were, armies across the world would still be fighting each other with swords.
Moreover, people ALWAYS prefer the easier option...criminals too. It's much, much easier to kill someone with a gun as opposed to a knife.
Go back to my sandbox eh? Nice personal attack. First sign of a weak debater. Anyhow, edged weapons ARE efficient killing tools that are STILL being used by modern fighting forces (and street thugs). Ever hear of the SOG Seal 2000? You think that weapon is issued only for cutting rope?
Ya, criminals prefer easy. It's hard to get a gun, but it's easy to get a knife. That's why in 2008, fatal stabbings were up 50% in New York City, while death by firearms was down 16% (source: New York Times).
Looks to me that what you're ultimately saying is that criminals using knifes (and other sharp weapons) to threaten, injure, and/or kill innocent victims (at least in the U.S.A.) are completely nonexistent. Please correct and enlighten me if I'm wrong because I still come across crime stories in the U.S.A. where knives were used against innocents. Thanks.
Ahh, the magical mystery gunshow loophole, I'd have much more respect for the idiot authors of this video if they'd refer to it as peer to peer transaction. Chicom CHO didnt buy his guns from a gunshow for crissakes, gun grabbers have gone so far to the 'Tard they don't even know who/where to effectively attack
Then in your state there is a loophole because in my state of NJ I need a background check to even buy a gun from a private citizen. It's a loophole because I can drive to your state of Indiana, if I have a criminal history, and buy a gun at a gun show and avoid the background check that my state requires.
It's not a "loophole" and it's certainly not a "gunshow loophole". It's got nothing to do with gunshows that I can sell a gun to my next door neighbor if I want to. Background checks on guns is like doing a DUI check on a guy that wants to buy your car. Drunks kill more innocent people in cars every year than guns do. The Flu kills far more people than gun murders do every year. Guns are not the problem and no law will make murder go away or slow down. Murder is as old as people and will happen.
It is a loophole because the definition of loophole is to circumvent the law. Now if by law I cannot buy a gun without a background check in my state but drive to youre state and I can avoid the background chech, then it is a loophole. And yes, It's not really a " a gunshow loophole" any more that the "assault weapons ban" is a ban on assault weapons. But if sells in the media for the politicians the same way. Scares people into buying into it.
It's not illegal here. If you need a background check there then you probably will be breaking the law for transporting arms across state lines. It's a stupid law anyway. I hate how the media lies just to push their agenda.
You miss the point. If I have a criminal background and wish to do more crime, I don't care about the law and transporting a gun across state lines. What if I'm a gang banger from New York City and I want a bunch of untraceable guns for my 14 and 15 year old posse members? But since here in my state the private citizen knows he would be breaking the law to sell me a gun, I would not even try to buy a gun in my state.
If you're a criminal, you don't need to go across state lines to get a gun. There are plenty of criminals in your state that will gladly sell you one. Gun laws do not stop criminals, so I think it's stupid to impose more gun laws on people like you and I. My friend wanted a gun and I sold him 1 because I needed the money. The gunshow loophole crap would have prevented me from selling my good friend of 15 years that rifle, an AR15 Bushmaster. He got $1200 of stuff for $750.
Well, it would not have prevented me from selling it to him, I guess he would have had to go through a background check instead of just handing me the cash and me handing him the gun case. He is not a criminal.
Even the criminal that is selling the gun to the criminal has to get there guns from somewhere. And since a criminal will want $500 buck in my state, why would I not want to go to a gun show and get 4 or 5 guns for that $500?
I never siad the laws were good, I just don't want people to brush of the gun show loophole issue by saying there is none. Look what happend when the public brushed of the assault wepons topic in 1994.
When I was younger, I knew guys that were stealing guns when they would break into homes. Then they woul dsell those guns. I was aproached to buy guns from them. I went to the local police and offered to buy the guns and get it on video tape so they could be convicted. The police wanted me to buy pot from them first. I didn't smoke it and everyone knew that. So the police ignored the fact there was 17 yo kids selling and carrying loaded guns. For under $100 I could get just about anything.
I wasn't buying pot then. I refused to buy drugs off of these guys for the police because the guys selling the guns knew that I did not do drugs. I have not smoked pot since I wa s17 and I'm 35 now. I am against illegal drugs, even pot, more than most people. Nothing good ever comes from drug use. I dont' even drink. Outside of my cigarette and RedBull habbit, I'm as clean as they come.
True, but in the media that scarys nobody. And most likely you will not go to 50 guys selling guns from newspaper adds, but you can go to a gun show in your state and drive away with 50 guns you bought at 50 tables in one day.
That's true, but I dont' care if a guy buys 50 guns in a day. If I hit the lottery I will be buying that many guns in a day. I would love to own several different types of guns and have a nice collection of guns from around the world. I would just hate to clean them all. As much as I love to target shoot, I hate to clean guns.
I don't care if law abiding citizens buy as many guns they want. But I live about 5 minutes away from Newark NJ, and I know what it's like where many guns are illegal.
I think targeting guns shows is waste of time too, but it keeps politician in office with feel-good laws that do nothing. I'm only explaining the loophole concept.
I myself have over a dozen guns, and I don't mind cleaning most of them. The Luger P08 is the worst to clean.
Omar Samaha is just trying to extend his fifteen minutes of notoriety gained in the wake of his sister's tragic murder by ponying up to be a mouthpiece for the anti-gun Brady campaign and other related groups. Sad.
More lies! Cho did not get his guns at a gun show, and he did undergo a background check. The objective of the gun-grabbing liberals is not to reduce crimes, but rather to gratify themselves sexually by infringing the rights of others.
theyre doing something GOOD. theyre trying to save some LIVES.
did you get the message.. do you need to be inflicted with such unbearable pain to realize theres a problem in the way things are run in the our legal system.
so the solution is ARMM EVERYONE..
when we have a problem we ALL GET LOCKED AND LOADED HUH?
is that really it? and dont give us the 'naive' argument.
Sorry Twobounces, the anti-gunners are NOT trying to save lives. If they were, they'd put criminals in prison. They are trying to infringe on constitutional freedoms. Go after cars and cell phones if you want to save lives. Cars and cell phones kill FAR, FAR more innocent people in this country than firearms. In fact, as a whole, guns actually save lives. You lose. Deal with it.
yeah so that everyone whips out a weapon slowly meanwhile 5 others are confused about who is the killer and which man with a gun is innocent.
then we have a nice melee and more people are dead.
i know there arent enough police to protect us individually, but in any case were talking about campuses... anyways other things can be done to prevent someone reaching that level
All sales at gun shows go thru the same backgound check as a gun store. This is a LIE told to you by the Liberal media. If you do not beleive this go to any gun show and see for yourself. The local government has people there to make sure. If it's not a legal sale there are taxes produced. You think they are letting any taxes slip from their hands. Thats why local govs allow shows they produce a tons of tax dollars. Stop listening to CNN
This video makes it sound like Seung cho got his gun from a gun show. WRONG! He bought it from a licensed dealer. These ads are all sensationalist ads, basing all of the arguments off emotion. In my 5 years of speech and debate, I never debated a gun control policy. Why? It's too easy to logically argue for guns.
Logically, one man's sister (unfortunate, yes), died because of a gun, but without guns, thousands of women would have been raped/killed because they couldn't defend themselves.
and read about the risk mail carrier Catherine Latta of Charlotte, North Carolina had to take to save herself from her ex-boyfriend (Latta was not prosecuted) and how a waiting period resulted in the deaths of Bonnie Elmasri and her two children (Elmasri's husband killed her and her children).
Thanks, good read. Perfectly supports my point. This is an exact comparison of guns vs no guns. And defensive use of guns happen 500,000 times a year. There are only ~8910 firearm homicides (including justified ones) per year in the US. if only half of those 500k people who use defensively are saved, it's still 250 THOUSAND people saved vs. 9000 people dead. Banning guns makes no sense logically; it's never been a topic in an ACTUAL debate. In the dumbed down TV debate, it's all sensationalist
There is no gun show loophole, you idiot, it's a myth. All vendors do background checks. The left media feeds idiots who know nothing about guns, such as yourself, misinformation.
While I do not believe you should get a gun, I feel very strongly that you should get an education.
Cho was allowed to kill so many people because the police were to scared to go in and kill him. The gunshow loophole is a myth. The liberals want to regulate the private transfer of firearms between non ffl holders. Wake up. The "gunshow loophole" had nothing to do with Cho or how he aquired the firearms.
Cho got his guns at a Federally licensed gun shop. He passed a NICS background check. There is no "Gun Show" loophole. I live in VA and have been to many gun shows. I have always had to have a background check. The supposed "Gun Show" loophole is meant to make it harder for private citizens to sell guns to one another. It has nothing to do with gun shows or gun dealers.
Very interesting to look at these comments all at once. SO much emotion here! it is a bit over the top, boys. I look forward to a day when we will have ammunition that is effective and non-deadly. Then we will be able to tell who is really interested in defending themselves and who just likes to feel that they have lethal power.
Effective and deadly are synonymous when it comes to PROPERLY dealing with thugs and tyrants because the only thing they fear is lethal force. Shooting someone committing a home invasion with a beanbag doesn't solve the problem, it simply pushes the problem 30 months down the road. When he's released, he'll be right back to his old tricks and he very well might show up again looking to deliver some payback.
I find it somewhat amusing that almost every single person commenting on this subject, that holds an anti-gun bias makes a comment about two things "rednecks" and NRA. It's almost like they are brainwashed into thinking the exact same things and incapable of free though on the issue. Another amusing point is, that the last time I checked, the people that go to VT are by what the gun-grabbers in this topic would considering, very red-neck.
I never said there was a heavily anti-gun bias, I said that most of the people who make anti-gun claims, very often mention either "red-necks" or the NRA and most of the time don't know what they are talking about when dealing with either.
in what way people will understand that criminals will not follow the law? Next time someone try to rob me, I have to stop him and ask whether his/her gun is legally purchased? Give me a break! The right answer is draw your gun, and fire back!
I feel bad for all the people who get killed by psychos. But elimination of constitutional rights is not going to do anything but make us more like the USSR.
There is NO loophole. There IS the private transfer of firearms to others. To stop that, one would have to register every firearm and have the authorities keep track of them. Transfer from one citizen to another of any sort would have to be criminalized. Cho got his guns by jumping through all the hoops. This argument about non-existent loopholes is a straw argument.
the vtech shooting could easily prevented. the teachers made it easy for the shooter. they made him a hunter in a room full of unarmed sheep, who could only run and hide rather than firing back. the teachers made a ban on firearms of any kind in the school. we see how well this worked to stop the shooter, but instead it only kept a good, law-abiding student from drawing HIS weapon and blowing the shooter's brains onto the wall behind him, ending the massacre before a second shot was fired.
Also, Google these titles by Bradford B. Wiles, a VA Tech alumna:
"Unarmed and vulnerable" (dated August 31, 2006)
"Student pleaded with Tech: Allow guns" (dated April 20, 2007)
All of the above titles/articles come from roanoke(.)com. Just thought you might be interested in them since they pertain to your comment here. Thanks.
this will not stop anyone who really wants a gun too have one. it will only create more issues for gun sellers / traders that are law abiding virginians. anyone who thinks these rules will save one life is living in a dream world!
"Whose sister is next?" not mine, she knows her way around guns. The only reason this happened was because prior to that semester at VT the college voted to not allow conceal carry on campus even though Virginia law leaves it up to the college itself. And if my sister was killed I'd be protesting for the right to carry on campus.
My last comments for the day! Debate is good and is needed to come up with good solutions to problems because Rome was not build in a day and it took any revs. before the constitution was approve and signed by our forefathers.
buckshotlee-like if anything that you are also saying makes sense either!. Of course Cho had the gun, I know the gun didn't went off by itself, what difference it makes. Cho killed her with a gun? LIKE I DIDN'T KNEW THAT!!!!
The tracking system for buying a firearm that is in place to follow a gun sell to the final owner is the responsibility of the seller.
I don't like the "loophole" either but I don't what to loss any of my rights because of a crazy man!
If I had to implement a law to fix the "loophole", then it would be to require that the records of every private gun sale be recorded by the seller and this record be saved for 25 years the way it is currently required by the FFL dealers.
Who has threatened your rights? As long as your guns are legal, I don't see a problem. Don't you think that your lobbying energies, instead of trying to keep the loophole open that you admit you don't like, could be better spent creating a system where that record would be the responsibility of some existing agency?
Now we are on a subject that everyone can agree on! Taxes! Why would I want to let some agency keep my records and raise taxes or charge me every time I sell a firearm? How ever rare that may or may not be!
The concern for this ad is not the failure of the VA government to fully fund and enforce the laws they already have on the books that would have prevented Cho from buying a gun, but rather other loopholes that Cho could have abused if the state had done its job and protected its citizens and residents. The argument of "stuff happens" is not hard to refute by simply asking "why is that stuff allowed to happen?" Ask the question for yourself, imagine that Reema had been your sister.
Your sister would be alive if she was toting a .45 that day. As a brother that loves his sisters dearly I am very very sorry for your loss my friend. But when people snap and decide to do bad things there is no law that is going to stop them or even slow them down. By unarming good civilians you're welcoming another massacre. You have to FIGHT FIRE WITH FIRE.
Breetastic 1 year ago
It's very unfortunate so many were lost at V-tech. It also unfortunate he's ignorant of the true facts. Gun laws only take guns away from people that obey them. Someone bent on killing people will break the laws to get them. Stricter gun laws wouldn't have made any difference. He was already breaking the law bringing guns to campus. Those laws didn't slow him down. Neither would more assinine gun laws.
flabeachcomber 1 year ago
Criminals do not buy guns Legally!! They can check all they want, if someone wants a gun they will get it that is why they are criminals!! PEOPLE use your God given brain to think of what you are going to say before what you say makes you look like an idiot!
pkwindow 1 year ago
@danent657 I am so sorry I failed to look at your stupid little film before responding.
To quote YOU: I've actually never fired a gun before. I've never been in a room with a gun, I'm really pretty terrified of guns.
To quote Frued: “A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity”.
You do have that pansy assed little girl persona going pretty strong there, don't ya? Try more lisp and head tossing, you know "valley girl".
BTW that makes you "unable to purchase" legally.
nash912 1 year ago
Would any of the very stupid liberal posters here like to explain to me why I had to pass a federal backround check for each of the thirteen weapons I have purchased at gun shows over the last 10 years.
And exactly, what loophole was it that I was "getting around"?
I mean, I'm really tired of filling out all these forms. How come I have to and the criminals and robbers somehow don't. Is there somehow a special door, I failed to enter?
nash912 1 year ago
Sad to see Omar Samaha is a liar. Has he even been to a gun show?
chesty1369 1 year ago
BS, he should be making ads for students right to carry, what a disarmed fool.
vademtiraspol 1 year ago
Washington Times, May 21, 2002:
"Cops Target Aggressive Driving"
[...]
Samaha , an 18-year-old senior at Westfield High School in Chantilly, was driving on Fairfax County Parkway with his best friend on Nov. 4, 2001, when he lost control of the car because he was driving recklessly. The car crashed into the oncoming lanes and flipped. Samaha 's friend was killed.
When his classmates graduate next month [..] Samaha says he will be going off to jail, though he's reluctant to talk about it.
nicspic 2 years ago 4
This has been flagged as spam show
What the fuck does a gun show have to do with anything. What's next? The guvment tellin' me I can't sell my lawnmower to someone because they might take it home and run over their kids foot?
Bullseye5477 2 years ago
What a shame, if ONE student over 21 had been carrying a concealed weapon and confronted this guy, it is highly likely he would have been stopped at that point. I find it both interesting and disturbing how inaccurate and uneducated the vast majority of anti-gun advocates are.
WindsorFox 2 years ago 3
@WindsorFox
"...if ONE student over 21 had been carrying..."
This reminds me of the December 9, 2007 shooting at the New Life mega-church in Colorado Springs, CO. Jeanne Assam (one of the church's volunteer security guards and who suggested that security be beefed up after the Youth With A Mission shooting in Arvada, CO) confronted the shooter and stopped him by shooting him several times. While it's sad that lives were lost at the New Life church, at least a massacre was averted.
DJSedSo 2 years ago 4
What??! But, but that can NOT be! Everyone knows that the more people who are allowed to carry guns the more people will be killed!
Yes, one has to wonder how some normally somewhat intelligent people can not grasp the stupidity of their argument.
WindsorFox 2 years ago
Hey Omar,
HB 1234, McClellan, gun show bill, requires private sales be done through a dealer and puts other burdens on the gun show promoter.
Killed by a 4 to 1 vote!!
Keep your propaganda and your hands of my rights.
DontTreadOnMeVa 2 years ago
Yes a private citizen selling a gun to another private citizen from another state is already illegal. There is not loophole, these fools just want to see gun shows stopped altogether because the perceive them as where all illegal guns come from.
WindsorFox 2 years ago 4
Omar killed his friend who was the passenger in his car when he was racing as a teenager. Don't see him talking out about that?!?!? But now he wants the government regulating guns? If liberals like him were in charge, nobody but Criminals would be able to buy guns!
Abeckett1161 2 years ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Fuck you...do you even know him personally?? Are you saying that hes not allowed to be fighting gun control because of a car accident??
He lost his best friend, then sister within 10 years--who are you to judge--ARE YOU God??
Hes fighting to keep assholes like you safe from drug addicts, and psychos off the street.
How dare you.....
MsSki29 2 years ago
Seems to me like he is fighting to allow criminals to run free unchecked. I feel for his loss but he clearly does not understand crime rates and patterns related to gun control laws. He is on a mis guided quest with OUR rights at risk.
shananagans5 2 years ago 2
Lost? Killed while drag racing. How dare YOU.
WindsorFox 2 years ago
@MsSki29 sweety
No, he's just saying that Omar is a flawed in his personality, personal responsibility, and logic as you are. And as is, the rest of your kind of braindead liberal logic . Now, pumpkin, go fvck yourself.
Fact is, one teacher or even a student of criminology (of adult age and appropriately armed) at VT could have stopped the massacre. And yet you don't get it.
How dare you..... be this fvcking stupid.
nash912 1 year ago
I bought a shotgun from a man at a gun show with only cash. I only told him my first name.
THIS DOES HAPPEN. You can deny it all you want- but give me a reason why it is unreasonable to check if someone is a criminal before you sell them a gun. I support the second amendment, and mandatory background checks just make sense.
danent657 2 years ago
What does this suppose "Gun Loop Hole" have to do with Virgina Tech, it is completely irrelevant. Cho Seung-Hui(the killer) obtained his through legal means even passing a background check. No law can deter murder. maybe if there were more firearms it would have ended a lot sooner
acidracing 2 years ago 4
I wonder what this mongrel would say if his sister was stabbed instead of being shot. It's laughable. Look at the law banning anyone from having guns on school campuses. Proof that the Jew system is rigged against non-Jews. We should ban kitchen knives and rocks! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
-14/88
greenmetal8000 2 years ago
Don't tread on me.
GoldenColts 2 years ago 4
'Completely unchecked'... My grandmother went to buy my cousin (who is going to GA Tech) a Glock 19 at a gunshow in Atlanta. She brought all her records with her because in GA, gun show vendors have the ability to give federal checks. She was denied a firearm because of a marriage and a last name change. How is that a gap in a law? Gun shows are perfectly safe, and sanctioned, here in GA. These people need to realize that laws don't prevent CRIMINALS from performing CRIMINAL acts.
F3DT 2 years ago 2
If I was in that classroom, and the university did not foolishly make it a "gun free zone", I would have saved your sister for you. But I wish you were fighting for the right cause.
Buffalowdown 2 years ago 14
This comment has received too many negative votes show
so everyone gets armed? do we have to be at war in our classrooms, in our streets?
twobouncers 2 years ago
See there's your problem, twobouncers.
A psycopath can walk into a classroom anytime they want and start murdering people, but if a legal, law abiding citizens chooses to arm himself at college, you call it "war in the class room". Wake up.
Stop being scared of guns. Read the facts. Do some research. Get past your irrational fear of firearms and accept their overwhelming benefit. Despite the fact that we have the liberty to carry them whether you understand or not.
Buffalowdown 2 years ago 4
Yes, it works. Criminals are less apt to mug, rob, rape, and kill people. Criminals are more apt to be killed. South FL the local thugs go after tourists who don't carry weapons, not the locals, as they are armed.
I always love reading in Miami about thugs who are shot and killed by a would be victim who was armed.
God Bless America
TAXtheAtheist 2 years ago 3
Yes, we do. If you do not care to participate that is fine, but do NOT trample MY constitutional right to protect myself. Next time I might just be your sorry, worthless sheeps butt that gets saved by my legally and responsibly carried fire arm.
WindsorFox 2 years ago 4
Do you constantly do drills in a classroom scenario where you are prepared to respond to a threat like that? Are you a steady shot when someone else is shooting at you? Or, better yet, do you have precognitive abilities so you could have seen what Cho was going to do so you could save ALL the people who died that day? The first person who died that day didn't have a moment's notice. Unless you are inhumanly fast, you couldn't have saved him. So shut. up. Save a few lives, or save 32. I vote 32.
DuxRUs 1 year ago
@Buffalowdown So you constantly do drills in a classroom scenario where you are prepared to respond to a threat like that? Are you a steady shot when someone else is shooting at you? Or, better yet, do you have precognitive abilities so you could have seen what Cho's plans? Could you save ALL the people who died that day? The 1st person who died that day didn't have a moment's notice. Unless you are inhumanly fast, you couldn't have saved him. Shut up. Save a few lives, or save 32. I vote 32.
DuxRUs 1 year ago
@DuxRUs
Nobody knows exactly how they would respond in a situation like that. The point is, carrying a gun as gives you options. If you are unarmed, then you are at the mercy of the murdering bastard. Your logic will never make sense to me. You argue that saving lives may be difficult, so don't attempt to prepare yourself, and dont fight back?
MagneticDog 1 year ago
@DuxRU you stupid small brained little simpleton.
Yes, plenty of people are and can. Just because you are unable to defend yourself does not mean the rest of the world has followed your pansy assed example. In fact, i would bet you are out of touch in a lot of other areas of life, as well.
nash912 1 year ago
@DuxRUs
What you fail to realize is that it doesnt matter. The point is, you can give yourself a fighting chance and try to save lives, or you can be a defenseless piece of meat. If you choose to be a piece of meat curled up in the corner hoping you dont get picked, then have fun with that. I'm gonna keep carrying my gun. And any institution that strips this liberty away from citizens has failed terribly.
Buffalowdown 1 year ago 2
The "loophole" is a joke. If you stop private sellers from being able to sell at gun shows, then criminals will just buy them from other sources, and we are only talking about the few criminals that actually go to police-infested gun shows. Most criminals either buy their guns off the streets or steal them, not go to gun shows. Besides, we should be carrying guns, not further restricting gun rights. The shooters at columbine broke 17 gun laws, one more wouldn't have saved lives, a gun would.
Mr2ndAmendment 2 years ago 5
But where do guns on the street come from? Criminals don't manufacture them. Don't say they come from Mexico either; the opposite is true.
It seems insane to me to sell someone a gun without knowing if they are a felon or mental case. As a dealer, I wouldn't feel safe doing that.
An unregistered firearm fro Virginia wound up in a criminal's hands on my campus last week. Laws like these put our safety in danger.
danent657 2 years ago
Of course they don't make them, and very few of these guns come from Mexico. Criminals either steal them, or buy them off the streets from other criminals. Gun shows are not the most welcome places for criminals, usually there is a lot of police/law enforcement present. And dealers cannot sell guns in this manner, that's the kind of crap that misleads the public (like you have been). Dealers must use background checks before sales, it's private citizens that can make private sales.
Mr2ndAmendment 2 years ago 2
"From other criminals"- But where do the guns originate? A lot of them are stolen, surely. ATF figures cite 30 percent of firearms in federal trafficking cases can be tracked back to gun shows and private sellers.
I have not been mislead. I bought a shotgun from a private seller- who did not ask for ID or run a background check.
I could have been an intelligent criminal- I wouldn't need to be welcome.
danent657 2 years ago
Maybe if his sister owned and carried a gun, she'd still be alive. Gun control means hitting your target!!!
30BulletHoles 2 years ago 4
No guns allowed on school grounds, 30BulletHoles!! For some reason murderers never see those sign postings!!
If I was still in college and they were disarming students "to make them safer", I'd have a pistol concealed on my ankle like always and just keep my mouth shut about it.
Buffalowdown 2 years ago
Criminals normally don't buy guns at gunshows. They buy them off the streets for half the price. I saw a video earlier and they were saying the majority of illegal handguns were obtained thru gun shows. Then in the same video they said it was 30% thats not a majority. Then I did some research to find that the 30% was counting all private sales as illegal. If you can't find some good facts to support your cause it probably not worth supporting.
curlylarrymoe 2 years ago 4
But where do street guns come from? Even if background checks keep one single gun from a criminal (who could kill you, or your family) isn't that worth the slight inconvenience?
Each gun matters, and it's important the right people are holding them.
danent657 2 years ago
This is the general stance of pro-gun advocates (like myself). Even with a million gun laws, you will not be able to prevent criminals from doing horrible things with guns (the Columbine shooters broke 17 gun laws in committing their acts by the way). You could outright ban guns, and criminals would still get their hands on them and use them. It is impossible to prevent guns from getting in the hands of criminals, so why not just be prepared instead of legislating our rights away?
Mr2ndAmendment 2 years ago 3
That nra add that they ran for mcdonnell just goes to show how much of an intolerant bigot this person is, That goes to show the nra will even run adds supporting a bigot to get their agenda across.
SteelRock73 2 years ago
How fucking retarded. Do they think that if Choo was to get denied getting a gun because of a back ground check, that he wouldn't kill those people. He just would have bought one off the street. These politicians are so fucking stupid its mind numbing.
volimcevape 2 years ago 6
It seems the blame is always addressed towards where the weapon came from not the maniac that used it. If someone wants to kill you not getting a gun isn't going to stop them. There are knives blunt objects etc. Don't forget Cain didnt kill Abel with a 9mm. If someone can find the funding to have officers on hand to run a name and date of birth at the door it would stop there. Not the best idea would take some time. I challenge everyone to come up with an idea. It only takes one good one.
Utubeeatssht 2 years ago 2
• A 2006 FBI study of criminals who attacked law enforcement officers found that within their sample, None of the [attackers] rifles, shotguns, or handguns were obtained from gun shows or related activities.
• A Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) report on Firearms Use by Offenders found that fewer than 1% of U.S. crime guns came from gun shows
• A 2000 BJS study, Federal Firearms Offenders, 1992-98, found only 1.7% of federal prison inmates obtained their gun from a gun show.
AndyCinDallas 2 years ago
Sorry for your loss Omar..no one wants this to happen to a loved one. Does closing this loophole guarantee that your sister's murderer would not have obtained a weapon? Unfortunately...no, sick individuals will use whatever means that are available. The Bloomberg sting is just another way to push the anti-gun movement into the limelight. They are targeting sellers in a shitty economy to look the other way for a lucrative sale. It's borderline entrapment. Criminals/insane folks don't obey the law
YakAV8R 2 years ago
You're sadly, making a straw man argument. Implying one argument pertains to the other.
They do not.
As a gun rights supporter, I see the need to make it much harder for criminals to obtain weapons for the street. 30% of illegal guns found on the street are obtained through gun shows and private "collectors" who ignore existing law.
The NRA offers no alternatives to reduction of street weapons. Existing law clearly does not work.
Offer a functional alternative. American's are dying for one.
cardcreekdesign 2 years ago
"Tyrants from Hitler to Mao to Stalin have sought to disarm their own citizens, for the simple reason that unarmed people are easier to control. Our Founders, having just expelled the British army, knew that the right to bear arms serves as the guardian of every other right. This is the principle so often ignored by both sides in the gun control debate. Only armed citizens can resist tyrannical government."
-- Congressman Ron Paul, June 27, 2006
GunOwnerDan 2 years ago
Believe me dan, you and your guns are no match against the monopoly in violence the government is able to marshall at a dime's notice. If our government turned tyrannical (which we all know is next to impossible considering the constitutional checks n balances). Unless ur backyard has F-22 raptors, rocket launchers, tanks etc, ur guns are a threat to your children, neighbors, law enforcement etc. In your wildest dream, you could not come close to matching the gov. Stay away from the Northeast.
Julianbts 2 years ago
So, what percentage of police and military will attack their own citizens if ordered to do so?
I'm willing to bet a large percentage of them do take that oath to support and defend the constitution very seriously.
GunOwnerDan 2 years ago 2
Exactly dan, I can bet that no policeman or military man in his right mind will attack their own citizens, and no I don't think any American president (not even VP Darth Cheney) can give such an order. However, I can bet all my money that they will rain hard on the occasional anti-government, self-appointed "militia", defending his idea of the "constitution".
Julianbts 2 years ago
Thank god for Oathkeepers.
Oathkeepers . org
GunOwnerDan 2 years ago
You don't understand, transnational private military contractors(like americanpolicegroup com) are the loophole to the posse commitatus act. That and all the free military gear they give some state and local police. Our military wouldn't have to get involved at all.
new01 2 years ago
Killers love unarmed victims.
Always have and always will!
A-HUMAN-RIGHT . com
GunOwnerDan 2 years ago
the second amendment should be revoked. at the time, i believe it made sense, but now is a different time.
icyicemanicyicy 2 years ago
Learn about the racist roots of gun control in America, watch "No Guns for Negroes" for free right here in youtube!
GunOwnerDan 2 years ago
oh man, so much misinformation spread by these gun grabbers, it really makes me sad. Guess what, even if this gun show "loophole" had been closed, the VT shooter could have purchased his guns, he had no history that would show up on a BG check!
These damn Liberals (I consider myself a liberal, but I'm pro 2nd Amend.) spread lies about school shootings to further their agenda in disarming the populace. If you read the FACTS, you will not support these further gun bans. Educate yourselves.
s92dx 2 years ago 12
Or he can make a law allowing people to carry in schools so next time something like that happens it wont last very long or take many lives
abuklashinkov 2 years ago 5
"The simple fact is that an armed citizenry is not the basis for our freedoms. Our freedoms rest on a moral consensus, enshrined in law, that in a democratic republic we work out our differences through reasoned, and sometimes raucous, argument. Free elections and open debate are not rooted in violence or the threat of violence. They are precisely the alternative to violence, and guns have no place in them."
E. J. Dionne editorial Aug. 20, 2009
petersoa840 2 years ago
Virginia Tech = GUN FREE ZONE
Killers prefer defenseless victims!
GunOwnerDan 2 years ago 8
There is no loophole. People have to go through an instant background check to see if they're a convicted felon.
Enforce the laws on the books.
kevinbrueck 2 years ago 2
This NIMBY attitude is much too prevalent in the gun rights arena. The media has done a great job of selling the 2nd amendment down the river.
They have you believe that if you're not a body-shaven sandal-wearing Commie supporter that you are the enemy of America.
Nothing could be farther from the truth. The taking of Constitutional rights from one American is a theft from all. Do your part to ensure our government lives in fear of you. VOTE.
YTdawn 2 years ago
I'm for the 2nd Amendment - You have the Right to Bear Arms - but we can add the fine print now. But if you think thats not fair - then think about this - The Right to Free Speech - I should be able to say whatever the fuck I want on a plane - like Man I hope nobody has a bomb - Oh is that a boxcutter - Hey, is the door to the cockpit locked? - Hmm that seems to be a problem - wierd I didn't see that fine print for that Right. Gun Owners follow those rules - then no problem & God Bless the 2nd
ArtakX 2 years ago
If the Gun is discovered to be used in a violent crime - the registered owner banned from owning guns + Jail Time + Fine
If these are ok with Gun Owners - then you can own Tanks & Bazookas for all I care. There is nothing wrong with collecting them - if you got the disposable cash to buy those high end weapons.
Only Standard ammo sold - No Specialized Ammo - unless you go through another round of background checks. Only hand held guns to be used for self-defense/property defense - seems fair
ArtakX 2 years ago
Its a fucking video game for the gun rights with no restrictions people. Anyone tries to go on a rampage again, people in the street will just pull out their guns & gun the bitch down, bullets flying all across the street/park/library/where-the-fuck-ever. Hell Yeah! Fuck the Drive-by Gangstas...we can take care of it on our own!
1 Month Waiting Period
Annual Background Checks
Annual Psych Profiles
Special License
Guns Registered off the Factory Line
Only Registered Buisnesses Sell Guns
ArtakX 2 years ago
If you can drive a car at 16 - then let them own guns too. Anti-gun folks, you're wasting your breath - they're just too motherfucking stupid to understand. They think they need to have guns to protect themselves from the government. If the Government wants to come get you - they fucking will whether you got a goddamn gun or not. For Columbine - they say if the high school kids could own guns those two shitbags would've been put down sooner - just like all the other psychotic rampages...
ArtakX 2 years ago
definally close the gun show loophole!
3dartistguy 2 years ago
there is no loophole.
mahnameiswin 2 years ago 2
I bought a gun with only cash. You are wrong. The man had no idea if I was a nice college kid or a psycho crack dealer.
Denying it's existence makes it seem to me, well, like you guys want to secure the money you make selling criminals guns.
danent657 2 years ago
In relation to private sales between private individuals, the government has no oversight. The strict laws and regulation regarding the sale of firearms comes from those that are licensed, certified dealers. I would never want the federal government to get involved if I wanted to sell a friend or someone else one of my old guns that I wanted to sell, it's a fine line between being stupidly over "safe" and the government getting more involved in our personal lives.
Mr2ndAmendment 2 years ago
There is no loophole.
In the state of Virginia ANY person can buy a gun REGARDLESS of where you buy it. People go to gun shows to sell there guns because MORE PEOPLE ARE THERE. MORE THERE =BETTER CHANCE TO SELL THE WEAPON.
One inconvenience turns into 15 different laws. Rights lost are rights never gained back. I also find it funny that people blame the deaths on the guns and not on the psychopath.
mahnameiswin 2 years ago
The only thing that would have stopped Chow
was a round to the head.
jblcva 2 years ago 3
they should legalize guns in the camppus so this incident would hav been prevented
scottyi88 2 years ago 3
That's a load of shit
ESA21 2 years ago
so if u were in the school would u rather be a defenseless victim tryin to call the police or u would do somthing inorder to prevent further killing by havin a gun by ur side
scottyi88 2 years ago 3
Classy! And pretty typical of the responses from the gun-obsessed.
petersoa840 2 years ago
Free people can own guns, slaves can not.
GunOwnerDan 2 years ago
One thing about college, is people get in fights. If everyone was armed, at frat parties for instance, the level of violence would be unimaginable.
danent657 2 years ago
@danent657 wrong.
The level of politeness would be unimaginable.
There you go, using that fvcked up logic of yours again.
nash912 1 year ago
@nash912
Not selling guns to criminals and the mentally ill..."fvcked up logic"....Yeah?
You must have bought your 13 guns through FFL's. Private sales do not require background checks. I know this because I bought a gun that way. I could have been a criminal, or mentally ill. They are not required to check. I'd like that to be fixed, and require a background check like an FFL sale, that's all.
danent657 1 year ago
@danent657 sweety you are truly one braindead individual. Bloomberg and the brady campaign invents "the gunshow loophole" and you follow along like some good communist party member under Stalin. Bloomberg wants all guns out of private hands. This is just "the next step" in the overall plan to have the government on both sides of the sale of weapons which is the preceding step to universal registration. Univ registration is the last step before universal confiscation.
We have 20,000+ laws now
nash912 1 year ago
@danent657 another thing you stupid little twit.
Bloomberg has already been in some serious constitutional legal hot water for sending NY city agents to other states to make fraudulent straw purchases. Trying to put local gun dealers out of business. Somehow this little dictator of NY city thinks he has the power to do the investigative work of the federal agents of the BATF.
This is a dangerous "dictator to be" at work here, and you are enthralled by his bullshit .
nash912 1 year ago
@nash912 My my. Your level of politeness is bordering on unimaginable.
danent657 1 year ago
@danent657 sugarpie!!! Actually I am very polite to normal people. Long ago on the "internets" I was very polite to all. But it all came to an end, when I discovered stupid, braindead, worthless, chickensh*t, motherfvckers like yourself really existed. All behind me now.
Please, pumpkin go fvck yourself.
nash912 1 year ago
@danent657 you COULD be mentally ill??
patrickhenry87 1 year ago
The reason the GUNSHOW is a problem is because it is a place for Conservative Christian law abiding republicans to congregate and buy guns. How are the Democrats going to convert us to communism if we are able to share our patriotic views and weapons with each other. To a liberal Democrat, the gunshow is the unholiest of unholies.....LOL
If they gave a damn about crime and death they'd be cleaning up their democratic murder zones like L.A., NYC and Chicago
guamsst 2 years ago 3
"Who's sister is next?", Not mine, my sister carries a .38 in her purse holster :]
TheProsecuter 2 years ago 2
The killer that committed murder at Virginia Tech didn't buy his guns at a gun show. Maybe you should have grown some balls and carried a gun to stop the murders instead of taking guns away from Americans that have the fucking RIGHT to own guns.
chyatt4 2 years ago 8
wow i would hate to live in a society by your rules... you should really think before you speak... ok if the VT killer didnt get it from a gunshow, where from? and you're saying carry a gun and go kill anyone who looks suspicious before they MIGHT just pulla a gun on you. not really but hey, lets be safe! you dumb fuck, that won't solve anything. people will always kill others regardless of their motive. closing the loophole will reduce the amount, not stop it. and that's the whole point.
neogenesis38 2 years ago
he bought the guns at a pawn shop... carrying a gun would help cuz after he let off 2 rounds hed be dead. 2 vs how many 20+? taking guns aint gonna do nothing. cuz then all he woulda did was come in with a sword or axe and hacked up the same number of people only diff is you wouldnt hear it meaning thered be no warning. meaning more people could die.
mikethebassguy 2 years ago
Thugs have no need to go to a gun show to trade in arms, something the law can not prevent.
Does nothing.
xagcx 2 years ago 3
Why no talk about the knife loophole? Don't criminals use knives to kill innocent people? A typical kitchen knife set can equip a dozen criminals with the tools they need to kill. Yet, why no background check for these things at Target or Wal-Mart?
RaidingWindmills 2 years ago 5
This comment has received too many negative votes show
RaidingWindmills: Your comment is plain nonsense. If edged weapons were as efficient at killing people as guns were, armies across the world would still be fighting each other with swords.
Moreover, people ALWAYS prefer the easier option...criminals too. It's much, much easier to kill someone with a gun as opposed to a knife.
I suggest you go back to your sandbox.
jmccoy1976 2 years ago
Go back to my sandbox eh? Nice personal attack. First sign of a weak debater. Anyhow, edged weapons ARE efficient killing tools that are STILL being used by modern fighting forces (and street thugs). Ever hear of the SOG Seal 2000? You think that weapon is issued only for cutting rope?
Ya, criminals prefer easy. It's hard to get a gun, but it's easy to get a knife. That's why in 2008, fatal stabbings were up 50% in New York City, while death by firearms was down 16% (source: New York Times).
RaidingWindmills 2 years ago 2
"(source: New York Times)"
Here's the source you're referring to:
nytimes(.)com(/)2009(/)04(/)28(/)nyregion(/)28knives(.)html
DJSedSo 2 years ago
Hmm, no reply yet from jmccoy1976. Must be out enjoying his sandbox. It is a nice day for the kiddies to play afterall...
RaidingWindmills 2 years ago
Looks to me that what you're ultimately saying is that criminals using knifes (and other sharp weapons) to threaten, injure, and/or kill innocent victims (at least in the U.S.A.) are completely nonexistent. Please correct and enlighten me if I'm wrong because I still come across crime stories in the U.S.A. where knives were used against innocents. Thanks.
DJSedSo 2 years ago
Give it time.
ClassicFIHD 2 years ago
Ahh, the magical mystery gunshow loophole, I'd have much more respect for the idiot authors of this video if they'd refer to it as peer to peer transaction. Chicom CHO didnt buy his guns from a gunshow for crissakes, gun grabbers have gone so far to the 'Tard they don't even know who/where to effectively attack
drvck70 2 years ago
,.......CHO BOUGHT THE GUNS LEGALLY from Roanoke Firearms... Not a gunshow.
whodank 2 years ago
What gun show loophole? I just had to pass a back bround check when I bought a gun at the gun show here in Indy today.
jboritzki 2 years ago
Was that from a private seller or a dealer? In 24 states you do not need a background check to buy from a private seller.
ClassicFIHD 2 years ago
It was from a dealer. You dont' need background checks to buy from private sellers here in Indiana.
jboritzki 2 years ago
Then in your state there is a loophole because in my state of NJ I need a background check to even buy a gun from a private citizen. It's a loophole because I can drive to your state of Indiana, if I have a criminal history, and buy a gun at a gun show and avoid the background check that my state requires.
ClassicFIHD 2 years ago
It's not a "loophole" and it's certainly not a "gunshow loophole". It's got nothing to do with gunshows that I can sell a gun to my next door neighbor if I want to. Background checks on guns is like doing a DUI check on a guy that wants to buy your car. Drunks kill more innocent people in cars every year than guns do. The Flu kills far more people than gun murders do every year. Guns are not the problem and no law will make murder go away or slow down. Murder is as old as people and will happen.
jboritzki 2 years ago
It is a loophole because the definition of loophole is to circumvent the law. Now if by law I cannot buy a gun without a background check in my state but drive to youre state and I can avoid the background chech, then it is a loophole. And yes, It's not really a " a gunshow loophole" any more that the "assault weapons ban" is a ban on assault weapons. But if sells in the media for the politicians the same way. Scares people into buying into it.
ClassicFIHD 2 years ago
It's not illegal here. If you need a background check there then you probably will be breaking the law for transporting arms across state lines. It's a stupid law anyway. I hate how the media lies just to push their agenda.
jboritzki 2 years ago
You miss the point. If I have a criminal background and wish to do more crime, I don't care about the law and transporting a gun across state lines. What if I'm a gang banger from New York City and I want a bunch of untraceable guns for my 14 and 15 year old posse members? But since here in my state the private citizen knows he would be breaking the law to sell me a gun, I would not even try to buy a gun in my state.
ClassicFIHD 2 years ago
If you're a criminal, you don't need to go across state lines to get a gun. There are plenty of criminals in your state that will gladly sell you one. Gun laws do not stop criminals, so I think it's stupid to impose more gun laws on people like you and I. My friend wanted a gun and I sold him 1 because I needed the money. The gunshow loophole crap would have prevented me from selling my good friend of 15 years that rifle, an AR15 Bushmaster. He got $1200 of stuff for $750.
jboritzki 2 years ago
Well, it would not have prevented me from selling it to him, I guess he would have had to go through a background check instead of just handing me the cash and me handing him the gun case. He is not a criminal.
jboritzki 2 years ago
Even the criminal that is selling the gun to the criminal has to get there guns from somewhere. And since a criminal will want $500 buck in my state, why would I not want to go to a gun show and get 4 or 5 guns for that $500?
I never siad the laws were good, I just don't want people to brush of the gun show loophole issue by saying there is none. Look what happend when the public brushed of the assault wepons topic in 1994.
ClassicFIHD 2 years ago
When I was younger, I knew guys that were stealing guns when they would break into homes. Then they woul dsell those guns. I was aproached to buy guns from them. I went to the local police and offered to buy the guns and get it on video tape so they could be convicted. The police wanted me to buy pot from them first. I didn't smoke it and everyone knew that. So the police ignored the fact there was 17 yo kids selling and carrying loaded guns. For under $100 I could get just about anything.
jboritzki 2 years ago
Sorry, but that story makes me think you are still buying and smoking pot.
ClassicFIHD 2 years ago
I wasn't buying pot then. I refused to buy drugs off of these guys for the police because the guys selling the guns knew that I did not do drugs. I have not smoked pot since I wa s17 and I'm 35 now. I am against illegal drugs, even pot, more than most people. Nothing good ever comes from drug use. I dont' even drink. Outside of my cigarette and RedBull habbit, I'm as clean as they come.
jboritzki 2 years ago
My last comment was more about your story being a tad unbelievable. Not about if you smoke pot.
ClassicFIHD 2 years ago
he said he dont but pot or smoke it
khfosajfpodsakvpodfk 2 years ago
And you can drive to my state and buy a gun from a guy that listed an add in the local news paper. There does not have to be a gun show in town.
jboritzki 2 years ago
True, but in the media that scarys nobody. And most likely you will not go to 50 guys selling guns from newspaper adds, but you can go to a gun show in your state and drive away with 50 guns you bought at 50 tables in one day.
ClassicFIHD 2 years ago
That's true, but I dont' care if a guy buys 50 guns in a day. If I hit the lottery I will be buying that many guns in a day. I would love to own several different types of guns and have a nice collection of guns from around the world. I would just hate to clean them all. As much as I love to target shoot, I hate to clean guns.
jboritzki 2 years ago
I don't care if law abiding citizens buy as many guns they want. But I live about 5 minutes away from Newark NJ, and I know what it's like where many guns are illegal.
I think targeting guns shows is waste of time too, but it keeps politician in office with feel-good laws that do nothing. I'm only explaining the loophole concept.
I myself have over a dozen guns, and I don't mind cleaning most of them. The Luger P08 is the worst to clean.
ClassicFIHD 2 years ago
Cho underwent a background check. He passed.
Omar Samaha is just trying to extend his fifteen minutes of notoriety gained in the wake of his sister's tragic murder by ponying up to be a mouthpiece for the anti-gun Brady campaign and other related groups. Sad.
nicspic 2 years ago
More lies! Cho did not get his guns at a gun show, and he did undergo a background check. The objective of the gun-grabbing liberals is not to reduce crimes, but rather to gratify themselves sexually by infringing the rights of others.
RadarGuidedVermin 2 years ago
yeah thats exactly what they want.
no. its not. you idiot. listen to yourself.
theyre doing something GOOD. theyre trying to save some LIVES.
did you get the message.. do you need to be inflicted with such unbearable pain to realize theres a problem in the way things are run in the our legal system.
so the solution is ARMM EVERYONE..
when we have a problem we ALL GET LOCKED AND LOADED HUH?
is that really it? and dont give us the 'naive' argument.
find a prevention and solution
twobouncers 2 years ago
Nope, sorry dipshit, I never said arm everyone. I clearly said criminals and idiots, such as yourself, should not be armed.
RadarGuidedVermin 2 years ago
Sorry Twobounces, the anti-gunners are NOT trying to save lives. If they were, they'd put criminals in prison. They are trying to infringe on constitutional freedoms. Go after cars and cell phones if you want to save lives. Cars and cell phones kill FAR, FAR more innocent people in this country than firearms. In fact, as a whole, guns actually save lives. You lose. Deal with it.
RadarGuidedVermin 2 years ago
yeah so that everyone whips out a weapon slowly meanwhile 5 others are confused about who is the killer and which man with a gun is innocent.
then we have a nice melee and more people are dead.
i know there arent enough police to protect us individually, but in any case were talking about campuses... anyways other things can be done to prevent someone reaching that level
twobouncers 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
That's why incompetent and easily confused people, such as yourself, should not get a gun.
RadarGuidedVermin 2 years ago
Its regretable that concealed carry wasn't allowed on the V-tech campus. The unarmed are sitting ducks.
rfromberg 2 years ago 4
THERE IS NO GUN SHOW LOOP HOLE!!!
All sales at gun shows go thru the same backgound check as a gun store. This is a LIE told to you by the Liberal media. If you do not beleive this go to any gun show and see for yourself. The local government has people there to make sure. If it's not a legal sale there are taxes produced. You think they are letting any taxes slip from their hands. Thats why local govs allow shows they produce a tons of tax dollars. Stop listening to CNN
slg1373 2 years ago 2
This video makes it sound like Seung cho got his gun from a gun show. WRONG! He bought it from a licensed dealer. These ads are all sensationalist ads, basing all of the arguments off emotion. In my 5 years of speech and debate, I never debated a gun control policy. Why? It's too easy to logically argue for guns.
Logically, one man's sister (unfortunate, yes), died because of a gun, but without guns, thousands of women would have been raped/killed because they couldn't defend themselves.
RAG3T3K 2 years ago 4
"but without guns,..."
Go to this website:
davekopel(.)org(/)2A(/)Mags(/)Hold_Your_Fire(.)htm
and read about the risk mail carrier Catherine Latta of Charlotte, North Carolina had to take to save herself from her ex-boyfriend (Latta was not prosecuted) and how a waiting period resulted in the deaths of Bonnie Elmasri and her two children (Elmasri's husband killed her and her children).
DJSedSo 2 years ago
Thanks, good read. Perfectly supports my point. This is an exact comparison of guns vs no guns. And defensive use of guns happen 500,000 times a year. There are only ~8910 firearm homicides (including justified ones) per year in the US. if only half of those 500k people who use defensively are saved, it's still 250 THOUSAND people saved vs. 9000 people dead. Banning guns makes no sense logically; it's never been a topic in an ACTUAL debate. In the dumbed down TV debate, it's all sensationalist
RAG3T3K 2 years ago 2
listen to what he said.
cho got his gun because of a gap in virginias background check. then he says
theres also ANOTHER loophole..the gunshow loophole...etc...
please be thorough.
twobouncers 2 years ago
There is no gun show loophole, you idiot, it's a myth. All vendors do background checks. The left media feeds idiots who know nothing about guns, such as yourself, misinformation.
While I do not believe you should get a gun, I feel very strongly that you should get an education.
RadarGuidedVermin 2 years ago
Cho was allowed to kill so many people because the police were to scared to go in and kill him. The gunshow loophole is a myth. The liberals want to regulate the private transfer of firearms between non ffl holders. Wake up. The "gunshow loophole" had nothing to do with Cho or how he aquired the firearms.
30BulletHoles 2 years ago 3
"The confiscation of arms is the trademark of oppresive and tyrannical governments."- John Nicholson
TheProsecuter 2 years ago
Cho got his guns at a Federally licensed gun shop. He passed a NICS background check. There is no "Gun Show" loophole. I live in VA and have been to many gun shows. I have always had to have a background check. The supposed "Gun Show" loophole is meant to make it harder for private citizens to sell guns to one another. It has nothing to do with gun shows or gun dealers.
clutch1245 2 years ago 3
Very interesting to look at these comments all at once. SO much emotion here! it is a bit over the top, boys. I look forward to a day when we will have ammunition that is effective and non-deadly. Then we will be able to tell who is really interested in defending themselves and who just likes to feel that they have lethal power.
latecoffee23 2 years ago
Effective and deadly are synonymous when it comes to PROPERLY dealing with thugs and tyrants because the only thing they fear is lethal force. Shooting someone committing a home invasion with a beanbag doesn't solve the problem, it simply pushes the problem 30 months down the road. When he's released, he'll be right back to his old tricks and he very well might show up again looking to deliver some payback.
I'll stick to my .45ACP, thank you very much.
TsugaC 2 years ago
I find it somewhat amusing that almost every single person commenting on this subject, that holds an anti-gun bias makes a comment about two things "rednecks" and NRA. It's almost like they are brainwashed into thinking the exact same things and incapable of free though on the issue. Another amusing point is, that the last time I checked, the people that go to VT are by what the gun-grabbers in this topic would considering, very red-neck.
jubeigh13 2 years ago
wow, that's interesting -- because I don't see NRA or rednecks in very many posts. So then, there is very little anti-gun bias?
latecoffee23 2 years ago
I never said there was a heavily anti-gun bias, I said that most of the people who make anti-gun claims, very often mention either "red-necks" or the NRA and most of the time don't know what they are talking about when dealing with either.
jubeigh13 2 years ago
in what way people will understand that criminals will not follow the law? Next time someone try to rob me, I have to stop him and ask whether his/her gun is legally purchased? Give me a break! The right answer is draw your gun, and fire back!
chef27615 2 years ago 3
I feel bad for all the people who get killed by psychos. But elimination of constitutional rights is not going to do anything but make us more like the USSR.
WTF1920 2 years ago
in what way is a psycho like a well-regulated militia?
latecoffee23 2 years ago
Cho would have not been stopped by the screening proposed. This ad is a lie.
Waltrules 2 years ago
There is NO loophole. There IS the private transfer of firearms to others. To stop that, one would have to register every firearm and have the authorities keep track of them. Transfer from one citizen to another of any sort would have to be criminalized. Cho got his guns by jumping through all the hoops. This argument about non-existent loopholes is a straw argument.
cargosquid 2 years ago
the vtech shooting could easily prevented. the teachers made it easy for the shooter. they made him a hunter in a room full of unarmed sheep, who could only run and hide rather than firing back. the teachers made a ban on firearms of any kind in the school. we see how well this worked to stop the shooter, but instead it only kept a good, law-abiding student from drawing HIS weapon and blowing the shooter's brains onto the wall behind him, ending the massacre before a second shot was fired.
JFCELICA38 2 years ago
Google this title:
"Virginia Tech's ban on guns may draw legal fire"
This article is dated April 13, 2005.
Also, Google these titles by Bradford B. Wiles, a VA Tech alumna:
"Unarmed and vulnerable" (dated August 31, 2006)
"Student pleaded with Tech: Allow guns" (dated April 20, 2007)
All of the above titles/articles come from roanoke(.)com. Just thought you might be interested in them since they pertain to your comment here. Thanks.
DJSedSo 2 years ago
this will not stop anyone who really wants a gun too have one. it will only create more issues for gun sellers / traders that are law abiding virginians. anyone who thinks these rules will save one life is living in a dream world!
daveknowshow 2 years ago
Gun control just sucks okay one day the UN disarms ex soldiers one week later I was pulling their dead body's off the road
UNsoldierLieutenant 2 years ago
"Whose sister is next?" not mine, she knows her way around guns. The only reason this happened was because prior to that semester at VT the college voted to not allow conceal carry on campus even though Virginia law leaves it up to the college itself. And if my sister was killed I'd be protesting for the right to carry on campus.
gsar426 2 years ago
My last comments for the day! Debate is good and is needed to come up with good solutions to problems because Rome was not build in a day and it took any revs. before the constitution was approve and signed by our forefathers.
buckshotlee 2 years ago
buckshotlee-like if anything that you are also saying makes sense either!. Of course Cho had the gun, I know the gun didn't went off by itself, what difference it makes. Cho killed her with a gun? LIKE I DIDN'T KNEW THAT!!!!
sandrakln 2 years ago
Then type like you know that, because I understood you a lot different just because of the way you typed it!
buckshotlee 2 years ago
What are the virtues of not closing this loophole? What do you gain by keeping it open?
easmd4604 2 years ago
The tracking system for buying a firearm that is in place to follow a gun sell to the final owner is the responsibility of the seller.
I don't like the "loophole" either but I don't what to loss any of my rights because of a crazy man!
If I had to implement a law to fix the "loophole", then it would be to require that the records of every private gun sale be recorded by the seller and this record be saved for 25 years the way it is currently required by the FFL dealers.
buckshotlee 2 years ago
Who has threatened your rights? As long as your guns are legal, I don't see a problem. Don't you think that your lobbying energies, instead of trying to keep the loophole open that you admit you don't like, could be better spent creating a system where that record would be the responsibility of some existing agency?
easmd4604 2 years ago
Now we are on a subject that everyone can agree on! Taxes! Why would I want to let some agency keep my records and raise taxes or charge me every time I sell a firearm? How ever rare that may or may not be!
buckshotlee 2 years ago
The concern for this ad is not the failure of the VA government to fully fund and enforce the laws they already have on the books that would have prevented Cho from buying a gun, but rather other loopholes that Cho could have abused if the state had done its job and protected its citizens and residents. The argument of "stuff happens" is not hard to refute by simply asking "why is that stuff allowed to happen?" Ask the question for yourself, imagine that Reema had been your sister.
easmd4604 2 years ago