@thatcoolmartian "I have a question what are you going to do when Jesus comes and puts a boot up your ass"
Exactly the same thing you will do when Xenu puts a boot up your ass! but on a serious note if I should ever come face to face with jesus I would ask him what was the value of instigating a religion that only idiots could believe? why punish intelligence!
@ArthurMorgan1971 God has just given me a revelation that you (and all members) of the LDS should send me £20 each, minus bureau de change fees.
/sarcasm
You really believe your leader had a revelation? Have you read the "Emperor's New Clothes?" How can you be so naïve? I know religious people who would go "Yeah, right!" at that sort of thing. Also, look up Atheist's Wager.
Topics: DEADLY ARGUMENTS NOW ADDED For The Creationism-Evolutionism Debate (See Subchapter 10.2.2.), The Issue On The Criminal Liability Of Foretelling The END OF THE WORLD, Other Debated Issues, Terrorism, War, Law, Politics, Religion, Philosophy, Science, Others.
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WHY DO WE DISAPPROVE OF NATURALISIM? WELL JUST ASK HITLER HE WILL TELL YOU THAT:"The law of selection justifies this incessant struggle, by allowing the survival of the fittest. Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure."-Adolf Hitler (Naturalist)
Guy one puts an unassembled model car in a box and shakes it up guy 2 creates one with his wisdom... but u dont see the end product until after you make yur guess well o fcourse the logical guess is right turns out guy 2 did create it and the fools who believed the car came to be by accident regret it for the rest of eternity what shame ill keep you in my prayers :)
@909Kunfused909 a bit of a vacuous analogy, first off the car parts aren't organic or animate, and secondly there are no parts, remember blasphemy is the only truly victimless crime
ItsChristonabike, I recommend that you visit the Creation Ministries International website, and watch the documentary 'Expelled' by Ben Stein. Scientists are relying on their own devised methods to determine things, and a lot of imagination and wild guesses to go with it. I believe that is more so for evolutionists than creationists, for creationists have at least something of a framework to work with in The Bible. Fact, a lot of renowned scientists over history have been creationists.
@ArthurMorgan1971 Arthur, I'm assuming you're Christian too, so as one of your co-religionists let me warn you that CMI, along with Ben Stein's film and the so-called "Intelligent Design" folks (which is just a euphemism for "Creationists") are all trying to sell us a load of crap. I assume from the "1971" in your screenname that you've long since graduated from high school, but I encourage you to revisit what we learned in h.s. biology with a great PBS series and book called simply "Evolution".
@GradStud28 Ultimately we're going to believe what we're going to believe on the matter, but as a Christian you need to ask yourself as whether the Christian Faith of unmerited salvation through Christ's death on a cross for a sinful world would have any foundation other than the book of Genesis (Creation, Everything was good, Deception in the Garden of Eden bringing Sin, Curse and Death)?
@ArthurMorgan1971 Actually, Arthur, it's not a matter of "belief" at all, but rather what is demonstrably true based on evidence and reason (which, as a person of faith, one could regard as God-given). You're certainly right to see the significance of Genesis 1-11 for the Christian story of universal history: the Apostle Paul relates the story of the Fall to Christ, and the imagery of Christ as a Second Adam and Mary as a New Eve is powerfully present in many Christian traditions.
... However, the cultural significance of stories, and whatever genuinely real lessons we might learn from them--are (or may be) quite different things from the "reality" of history. I wouldn't want anyone to think, e.g., that because the first 11 chapters of Genesis are myth and not history that these traditions are without value or have nothing to teach us. And I certainly wouldn't suggest that one need renounce Judaism or Christianity or Islam just because our traditions include myths.
Christonabike, I think you mean "called to see the light of common sense", evolution was starting to be tried and found wanting logically months before I was born again.
@ArthurMorgan1971 "evolution was starting to be tried and found wanting logically months before I was born again" really, could you point me to a credible (non religious) university that concurs with your thinking (Oops, did I say thinking?) forget biology, every single scientific discipline proves a multi-billion year old universe, from geology to cosmology, to chemistry, optics and physics, the only evidence you have for a young earth is a bronze age book by unknown authors
@Art1971 When it comes to your beliefs you're quite happy for a non qualified pseudo scientist to bolster them, I doubt you would let a non qualified pseudo surgeon remove a brain tumor, or have root canal surgery performed by a graduate from "Dave's Bible School & Grill" If you want to believe the earth is 6,000yrs old based on a bronze age book, that's your business, but don't try to justify it with science, scientists & science prove your beleifs erronious, and weaken an already weak case
If some proof of God turns up, I'd be more than fascinated. I'd either piss myself, or be overwhelmed if He extended the hand of grace like He did nearly 20 years ago.
You would have much more to lose than I would if the eternal consequences are true.
@ArthurMorgan1971 That's revalation not proof, When te mormon church wouldn't recognize black people as gods people they were about to fall foul of equal rights law, low and behold the leader of the mormon church had a revelation telling him "all humans are gods people" just in time to avoid a law case. Now I know you don't accept that as revelation from god, yet you find it hard to accept why I wouldn't bee impressed by your revelation
@hughjarrse I'm not sure as to what exchange you're responding to? The gospel is for all people, I'm aware that there have been churches in America's Deep South that had forgotten that, and the Dutch Reformed Church in South Africa likewise. God had to give a few prods to the early Church in going also to the non-Jewish people through persecution in Jerusalem, and the vision Peter had in Joppa of the living things that in Jewish culture were deemed unclean to eat but were now right to eat.
@ArthurMorgan1971 "Behemoth and Leviathan could not be anything other than dinosaur related" to say it couldn't be "anything other" is stretching it a bit.
"As for The Mormon Church, it was that they wanted the blacks' money more than the fearing the Civil Rights groups" no it was definitely civil rights, after all they risked alienating their entire "white" congregation
@hughjarrse Read the descriptions of the Behemoth and the Leviathan in Job Chapters 40-41, and it's believed to be God speaking to Job and his "comforters".
I'll admit that this is hearsay, but I did hear the Mormons had to change their policy through their "revelation" because they wanted to branch out into Brazil, and what colour people dominate that country?
@ArthurMorgan1971 "Creation Ministries International has served the ball and has gained the advantage in their explanations"
excellent, well you know why I think the dinosaurs died out, would you be kind enough to furnish me with creationists reason for the mass extinction of 99% of all living creatures? and while you're at it a creationists expatiation for ancient starlight would be figuratively and intellectually illuminating
@hughjarrse Possible explanation - The Flood, and those that survived either couldn't adjust to the climatic changes or were hunted. The book of Job acknowledged the Behemoth and the Leviathan as living creatures at that time.
@ArthurMorgan1971 "The Flood, and those that survived either couldn't adjust to the climatic changes" so why would an omniscient god take such trouble to put them on the Ark?
@hughjarrse That is a good question, I'll have to look into that one as well. Noah's great-grandson Nimrod was a great hunter so they may have lasted a while after. I don't know how long the dinosaurs existed after the flood, the Behemoth and Leviathan could not be anything other than dinosaur related.
@ArthurMorgan1971 The biggest problem I believe throughout all human history is the fallen or corrupt nature of man. From my perspective, it's what brought upon the global flood (The Queensland floods are even making my heart sick now), why Jesus had to die on the cross, and why the world is such a mess today? I believe there is a final judgement coming and thus the call to get right with God in Christ Jesus.
@ArthurMorgan1971 You will need to read the Creation Ministries International articles for yourself regarding Ancient Starlight. Type 'Ancient Starlight' on search and you should find the articles. Calculated and observed time, and the pitfalls in measuring the speed of light are thrown around a lot though.
As much as you just told me regarding quoting the Bible, the Book of Acts and the Epistles/Letters of the Apostle Paul will put that into perspective. I'm sure you are familiar with them?
@ArthurMorgan1971 Morality is ''built-into'' evolution. You have INDIVIDUAL response to ENVIROMENT, and GROUP response to enviroment. Form humans, down to bacteria and virus. If the individual, or, group response is WRONG, the species will COLAPSE. Wether God or nature made evolution, morallity (group and individual response to stressors in local enviroment), MORALITY is ''IN-BUILT'' It just is. No MORALITY , No species. Bacteria or human.
@ArthurMorgan1971 Thats the problem. You can't. Ans I know it . Otherwise somebody would have PUBLISHED that information, long ago, and Religion would ,RULE THE WORLD. Has never happened. WHY ? NO VERIFIABLE EVIDENCE. Ever . NONE. That's how it currently stands. Sorry.
@evidenceonly "Do you need theology to believe in God ? " we can only communicate with words (which is why no one can explain the trinity) , and we have to use words at a level we can all understand otherwise there is no communication.
Theology/philosophy can be interchangeable (like Buddhism) so if you believe there is a god who was involved in the initial creation of the world, a god that caused the "big bang" but them evolution took over, that is a type of theology deiology maybe
@hughjarrse I can explain the Trinity exist in Jesus Baptism - The Son being baptised, the Holy Spirit descending like a dove on Jesus' head, and the Father speaking from Heaven, and Jesus instructing the disciples/apostles to baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit/Ghost in the Great Commission [Matthew 28:19].
Paul acknowledges the trinity in 2 Corinthians 13:13, "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all."
@ArthurMorgan1971 "That we've got D.N.A. in common with the kangaroo than apes" Then you have to deal with the facts, but it's already known that some apes share 98-99% genetic similarity which is higher than kangaroos, The bible has been proved "non literal" every single scientific discipline have proved the old age of the universe but you won't accept that! If it was proved that the earth was 6,000yrs old I would have no choice to accept it because I adhere to science.
@hughjarrse It doesn't necessarily prove evolution or common ancestor, in fairness you will argue that it doesn't prove a common creator. The 98-99% genetic similarity with apes has since been brought down to 95%, but I will go and re-look that up and get back to you tomorrow.
@ArthurMorgan1971 It gets very complex, why would god give a dog a better sense of smell than his "highest" creation human? you may say "we had better smell in the past, but it's diminished since the fall" but that wouldn't explain why the dogs smell hasn't diminished, same with eagle and octopus eyes, both better than human eyes
@hughjarrse The bloody mongrel gets to hear that little bit more on the Beatles 'Sargeant Peppers Lonely Hearts Club Band' album as well.
Considering the octopus would need better eyes for seeing in water, for the others I'd probably burst into 'That's The Way God Planned It, That's The Way God Wants It To Be, To Be".
@ArthurMorgan1971 What you have to understand is I don't care if there's a god or not, it plays no part in how I live my life, I have nothing to lose if some proof of a god turns up I would be fascinated, it wouldn't alter how I lived my life one iota
According the Bible, most living things were herbivores in the beginning. Man was permitted to eat the flesh of animals after the flood.
I believe that nature was in perfect harmony until the fall in the Garden. You may want ot visit Creation Ministries International as to why the animals mentioned may not have lasted long enough for the evolutionary changes to work.
@ArthurMorgan1971 " You may want ot visit Creation Ministries International as to why the animals mentioned may not have lasted long enough for the evolutionary changes to work" on the contrary, evolution explains it beautifully, the problem is squarely in the creationist court
The point that Jesus was making was that no one had the right to stone someone because under the law, all have sinned. Jesus is the only one who had the right to stone the woman but He came to reveal Grace and Forgiveness by fulflilling the law in being the perfect sacrifice for the redemption of all mankind. In the breaking of his body and the shedding of blood on the cross (The bread and the Cup in Christian Communion), a covenant was put into effect which nullified the old law Mosaic Law.
@ArthurMorgan1971 "a covenant was put into effect which nullified the old law Mosaic Law" so when Jesus tells you the law of moses must be "upheld" he doesn't mean it?
@ArthurMorgan1971 "why are the hardline evolutionists so afraid that they suppress any scientific discoveries that may challenge their party line" I can't think of any off hand, also you are really under estimating the power of greed, can you imagine the money to be made from a "genuine human fossil" it would make king tut's mummy look like a candy bar wrapper! there's the money from the discovery institute and the templeton prize
@ArthurMorgan1971 "God didn't spare His only begotten Son" Strange one that, Jesus is god, god knew he would get his son back (himself?) no faith involved omniscient certainty, it becomes less of a sacrifice that someone who offers their son on "faith" alone
"the person who wants to claim that Shiva was testing His faith is acting in ignorance" that's an opinion, a devout follower of Shiva would have his own story why yours is a view from ignorance
@hughjarrse For someone who thinks he's read the Bible more than I have, I think you've really missed something somewhere big time. There can only be One Way to God despite what Oprah Winfrey may say. Jesus is the only one who can back His claim through His death and resurrection. No other religious leader or founder can claim likewise.
@ArthurMorgan1971 "For someone who thinks he's read the Bible more than I have, I think you've really missed something somewhere big time Jesus is the only one who can back His claim through His death and resurrection. No other religious leader or founder can claim likewise"
only if you believe it, do you think you would believe in scientology if you read Dianetics 100 times? something either adds up or it doesn't
In more ancient times hughjarsse, there were different types of slavery. I think at the time, slavery was more concession than endorsement like divorce during the time of Moses. You have to realise that the culture of Biblical times was a lot different to today's Western society. Christian Masters in the New Testament are instructed to treat their slaves fairly because they both have the same Master in Christ Jesus. See response to evidenceonly regarding D.N.A., would make sense Biblically.
@ArthurMorgan1971 " the New Testament are instructed to treat their slaves fairly because they both have the same Master in Christ" it also says you can beat your slave as long as "you don't know out teeth, or blind them" if you beat your slave so badly that he dies 24hrs after the attack that is also fine, no offence but quoting the bible to me won't help that much, I have probsbly read it more times than you
@ArthurMorgan1971 Oh, I'm bit new to this form of communication. Always go to you tube site. Didn't know I could do it other ways, but this will suffice, for me.
@evidenceonly "Can you tell me your standing ? Agnostic? Islamic?"
no probs strictly speaking we're all agnostics because faith means without proof (you can't have faith and certainty) so you have "belief" but you don't "know" so we're a-gnostic (gnostic means "to know") I have no theistic leaning and follow no theology so I am a-theist (no theology)
Let's just say, both sides need to present their arguments more. Curio, what if you heard that D.N.A. suggests that the Kangaroo is more a close relative to Man than the Ape?
@ArthurMorgan1971 Just a beginer in reading D.N.A. Would be suprised at the Kangaroo, ape ,human, but I don't definatively KNOW, have to research on that . D.N.A. seems readable by the spacings between, MISTAKES in the D.N.A. Most animals have SAME coding on LOTS of D.N.A.( nature conserving energy)(and using what works), it's the ALTERED D.N.A. pattern of mistakes that allows us to say AHHHHH, that's where it BRANCHED. Different MISTAKE patterns from that point on.
@evidenceonly An evolutionary question for you. How could say the bombardier beetle, giraffe, woodpecker or wombat have survived the evolutionary process? The "it somehow developed given a certain period of time", and managed to survive in the meantime would have to been miraculous in itself.
@ArthurMorgan1971 would be "why would a god design all mammals from rats to giraffes and everything in between (including us) with 7 neck bones? the question "why do certain species survive" is simple to address in evolutionary terms, as is why 99% of every creature that ever walked the earth is extinct. I see no good reason for a creator to allow 99% of his creations to die, did he get bored? was the design not very good, why did he design creatures that live on the blood of others?
@ArthurMorgan1971 "what if you heard that D.N.A. suggests that the Kangaroo is more a close relative to Man than the Ape?" you would get a reference sample from a kangaroo and an ape and compare with a human reference sample (which has been done many times) and you would say "well my repeated research show that's not the case"
Not an outright lie if the Bible does happen to be true. To be fair though, I need to be more convinced of it scientifically, but I'm not discounting it.
@ArthurMorgan1971 Sorry, that ''lie'' bit was directed to the people who furnished YOU with it. That really gets my Hackles up. This is how dis-information turns into, BIG TROUBLE.
You be surprised that man was not so primitive before the flood. Cain, the one who killed his brother, built the first city. Through his family line, they developed metallurgy, musical instruments and weaponry. If you closely studied the design, size and construction of the ark, it was capable of doing what it was able to do in floating out during a raging flood.
I believe that all the various religions came to be after the flood, and when the nations dispersed after the Tower of babel.
@ArthurMorgan1971 Here's a book for you. The Golden Bough, by Sir James Frazer. A classic study of what came BEFORE Religion. Was there anything BEFORE modern religion ? Bet your arse there was . HEAPS of it, TONS. About 70,000 years of it . And THAT is wher RELIGION comes from. The recording in the WRITTEN ERA of the EXISTING human knowledge of how the universe operates. EXTEMELY interesting read for anybody interested in where, ALL these belief systems, came from.
@evidenceonly Here I go, as you requested. It would suggest that man is a spiritual being, which separates us from the animals. In the beginning, and up to the time of Babel, there was only one religion. After the dispersion and the confusing of the languages, the peoples scattered around the earth and forgot much of the knowledge of who God is, so I believe that many of the religions were formed on some partial knowledge of God's nature. The common one is appeasement through sacrifice.
@ArthurMorgan1971 Appeasement through sacrifice. If only I could type quicker. The Golden bough by Frazer is largely about. First primitive God, the sky, 2nd is female, the Earth. To early man, it was ALL about, cosmic forces and REJUVINATION. Cyclic, REBIRTH. As demonstrated by the SEASONAL rejuvination of the plants ( emmer wheat), the RAINS, and the wellbeing or, return of ANIMALS, OHH, and the SUN coming up, and the stars moving to the correct tempo. To keep these things happening, you need,
@evidenceonly The only sacrifice that God desired was from a bull or lamb that was without defect. The concept that most of the worlds religions understood was a sacrifice was needed to appease a higher being, but unfortunately, they also sacrificed humans which angered God big time. I'm sure you'll bring up Abraham again, but I think he had faith that God would spare Isaac which he did.
There was only one human sacrifice that appeased God, and that was His only begotten Son on the cross.
@ArthurMorgan1971 Blood sacrifice of the Devine King-god of the tribe has gone on, time immemorable. It basically means in the human sub-concious, O.K. I fullfilled my bit of addoration to the cosmos, NOW the cosmos returns, cyclic rebirth and recreation. It's basically human emotional blackmail. Sounds a bit rough, but there you have it .
@ArthurMorgan1971 The golden Bough is a compendium of twelve volumes. Packed with, to this day, fully accepted detail, form a wide variety of instances, of EVERY country in the world. The study of where human religious thought came from. When you sacrifice your devine,King-God he is killed before his natural magic wears off and the natural world overwhelms him. Dying of ''natural causes''. A- his magic must be DECAYING, 2- it would not be a SACRIFICE. He must be, knowingly killed.
@ArthurMorgan1971 When all of these primitive societies sacrifice the D/K/G the ELITE of the society partake in his supernatural magic by, ritualisically joining with them. How is this done?, one might ask. By EATING his body, and drinking his BLOOD. This by now must start to sound a bit eerie to religious people of the Christian faith , because this is exactly what is represented by the''Sacrements''. Canabalism. Oh yes. Makes you think. Doesn't it? Sorry if you just learned of this.
@evidenceonly I can how that can look that way to you. When Jesus said these things about himself to the people after He had fed 5,000+ people with 5 barley loaves of bread and 2 fish, I'm sure they were pretty much freaked out themselves [John 6:25-59]. I believe that the Catholics do believe that they're eating the flesh and drinking the blood of Christ when they partake in communion, but as a protestant I see the bread and the grape juice as a reminder of Christ's body broken and blood shed.
@ArthurMorgan1971 Sacrifice, and for the CRUCIAL events to happen, you sacrificed the best you had, another human being. For early man, these cyclic renewals, rebirths, rejuvinations, or re-CREATIONS, meant E-V-E-RY-THING. Your King-God and I'm talking WAY before EGYPT and SUMERIA, King-God is your pathway or conduit between the natural, and the supernatural, HE holds the destiny of his tribe in his hands. If he fucks-up, the natural cycles of the cosmos, STOP. No rebith, no return of the SUN.
@evidenceonly I'm not hurt at all. I admit that I don't have all the answers yet, but it's great that we can exchange what we believe. Probably won't sway each other to our respective point of views. Bottom line is that I will view evidence from a view point that there was an original purpose and thus the work of an awesome creator. You will view things from what you believe is to be true.
@ArthurMorgan1971 Good answer. You've held firm, but not digressed to verbal warfare. A passionate topic. Track that Golden book though. Might give you a good laughor, a good think. Either way . . .
@ArthurMorgan1971 "As for the one who nearly killed his son because God told him to, this was not that simple. The situation was to test Abraham's faith" so would you extend this to someone who's defence was "I only did it because Shiva was testing my faith"?
@hughjarrse I understand where you're coming from. Fact: 1) God spared Isaac. 2) God didn't spare His only begotten Son in His love and redemption of mankind. 3) Christ death has done away the need for any more blood sacrifices. 4) Christ's salvation is for everyone. Therefore, the person who wants to claim that Shiva was testing His faith is acting in ignorance of the way to God that has been paid for once and for all.
Evidenceonly, the same could be said for your lot in that regard. Question, why are the hardline evolutionists so afraid that they suppress any scientific discoveries that may challenge their party line (For the lack of a better word)? If it's just nonsense, what are they afraid of, unless they suspect that it could be true.
This is why I recommend 'The Slaughter Of The Dissidents'.
@ArthurMorgan1971 hi, ya, youre quite polite. I'm more used to being abused over these topics on the internet. Please if I'm defensive, ironic ,or sarcastic, take it with a grain of salt, and not personally, as these responses now flow out of me. Some times if I'm really frank and don't put up a defensive front, people start to take advantage. But you haven't , so far. Good going. I'll respond to previous posts as the time presents itself. Few things happening at moment. Take care.
[2012] Yes I know that it was the Mayan calendar, but the disaster is the same as was the flood [Genesis Chapter7].
[D.N.A.] It can be traced back to Adam and particularly Noah.
[Fossils in high places] humans may not have lived very high up or in the that region at the time of Noah, so all their fossils were probably found in the lower regions. From what I gather from reading the story line to 2012, the topography of the world may have also changed dramatically from Noah's flood.
@ArthurMorgan1971 Early man believed Gods lived on HIGH mountains, because the HIGHER the mountain, the greater the chances of YOU dying ( or getting MYSTERIOUSLY weak and sick ) from LACK OF OXYGEN, or POISONING from sulphurous and other gasess emited by VOLCANOES. But , OF COURSE , ancient, PRIMITIVE man, had no idea of GASESS, so he made-up a story about, God's living there and FORBIDEN to humans. Fantastic explination, but it's one of many, and it happens to be . . . wrong.
@ArthurMorgan1971 D.N. A. --- linked to Noah and Adam--- W O W. We don't even have their B-O-D-I-E-S. How could we have their D.N.A. ? Where is this D.N.A. ? That is an o-u-t-r-ig-h-t . . . L I E. We do have something called an EVE of modern human D.N. A. . I think, Id'e have to check that though. But it's entirely NOT, what somebodies told you.
@evidenceonly Will keep an eye -out for ''Slaughter of the Dissidents. '' Can you summerise it's points, or give me some of this, REPRESSED, knowledge ? I think we'll find, this REPRESSED knowledge, is actually, DISPROVEN knowledge or, currently unresolved knowledge, but lets have a look at it.
@evidenceonly Generally from what I can gather, it's an interview of scientists, not all of them Christian, that have been maliciously treated or sacked from various science institutions due to their doubts on evolution being scientific fact. The presenter was the science teacher from 'The Wonder Years', and he was also in 'Ferris Bueller's Day Off' as a teacher.
@ArthurMorgan1971 Just realised I've given you the wrong film title (Well my Mum brought it to my attention on Facebook). The film I meant to say was 'Expelled' with Ben Stein.
@ArthurMorgan1971 "[D.N.A.] It can be traced back to Adam and particularly Noah" so where did the reference sample of Adams DNA come form?
"I don't believe that the Bible condones the Child Sex Slave industry running rife in Asia" The fact that the bible condones slavery at all is abhorrent (and it does FACT) are you suggesting it's fine to keep slaves as long as they are not used in the child sex slave industry?
How much safer would our streets be if kids were disciplined and respected parental and legal authority?
You have to understand the historical context of the situation. The law given unto Israel was given to make people aware of sin and it's consequences until it's fulfillment in The Messiah (Jesus).
@ArthurMorgan1971 "The issue of stoning for adultery or whatever acts described in the Old Testament like unruly kids for instance was done away when Jesus wrote in the sand" Two problems with that, one you'll dismiss and one you can't: firstly the The Woman Taken In Adultery story wasn't added until 500yrs after Jesus death. secondly "
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven" Matthew 5
As for the one who nearly killed his son because God told him to, this was not that simple. The situation was to test Abraham's faith which was proved when he believed that God will provide the sacrifice and spare Isaac. Ultimate it took Abraham nearly running the knife into Isaac (Yes, I definitely felt sorry for the poor boy as you would have done no doubt). This was meant as a somewhat prophetic sign that God would sacrifice His only begotten Son. [General Rule] God despises sacrificing kids.
I don't believe that the Bible condones the Child Sex Slave industry running rife in Asia today, and wasn't it Christians - William Wilberforce and John Newton (Amazing Grace) that abolished the British slave trade?
The issue of stoning for adultery or whatever acts described in the Old Testament like unruly kids for instance was done away when Jesus wrote in the sand and said, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" [John 8:1-11], and in the Parable of The Lost/Prodigal Son.
@ArthurMorgan1971 "what moral source can you judge an atrocity committed in the name of evolutionary thought?" actually it's society, society doesn't allow slavery, the bible does,society will lock you up if you "stone your wife to death for not being a virgin" the bible condones it. If you attempted to murder your son because "god told you to" society would lock you up, in a mental hospital or jail
"How do you determine whats right or wrong through the morality of man?"
"Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel"
"Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death."
"if one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness.
" All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense"
@ArthurMorgan1971 "Ever wonder where the movie 2012 may have got that idea from?" the Mayan's
"Creationists also claim D.N.A. supports their argument as well" what do they claim?
"what of the fossils of marine creatures found in the Himalayas?" do you know how mountians come about? no creationists believe the water was deep enough to cover Mt Everest because they can't account for the recession of the water, they tend to say Everest came after, and why no human fossils found..... ever!
@ArthurMorgan1971 Ah, ww2 an interest of mine. If we study the opponent, long enough (war), we may be able to stop it . Hitler , NOW there was a dangerous, nutter. What-ever ideology he used.
Creationists also claim D.N.A. supports their argument as well, and what of the fossils of marine creatures found in the Himalayas? Genesis Chapter 7 speaks of a flood covering above the highest mountains. Ever wonder where the movie 2012 may have got that idea from?
@ArthurMorgan1971 Goodness, marine fossills on mountains. Ever heard of geographic uplift ? Tectonic plates pushing on one another and the only stress relief available , is UP ? This question answered in roughly 1590. I can pull book out of shelf if you give me a moment. For names , locations and dates.
@ArthurMorgan1971 Creationists, claim D.N.A. support too. But same problem, some people present an arguement as if they have VERIFIABLE EVIDENCE and should be treated with EQUAL respect. But when you point -out, they actually have----NONE--, they're completely unashamed, and say, regaurdless, they DEMAND , equal respect, for their arguement. I start stepping -back and looking for the door, this kind of thinking is impenetrateable. Weakness in the argument is not acknowledged. How to communicate?
@ArthurMorgan1971 Marine Fossills on mountaintops. Explianed. Nicolais Steno. Published, '' De solido '' in spring of 1669, with funding from Ferdinand and later Leopoldo, Medici, Tuscanny, Italy. Explains, GLOSSOPETRAE, or,'Tounge Stones '' on mountains near Tuscanny, Italy. Earlier book on same topic,1616 ''Dissertation on Toungestones'' published in Rome,by Fabio Colona. Originally thought to be Magic God Stones, turned out to be Fossillized Shark TEETH.
How do you determine what's right or wrong through the morality of man? Why do most people just a celebrity for doing something that they'd wouldn't think twice about doing like adultery for instance? Where do you draw the line on murder when abortion is permitted?
@ArthurMorgan1971 Morality is a system Evolution has that filters good traits from bad, in a group. Sorry but, no mind cracking cosmic question , contained or needed.
The Bible is the Christian's verification of revealed knowledge. It's how we know when God is speaking unlike some crazed murderous hippy named Charles Manson who thought that God spoke to him through the Beatles 'White Album'.
@ArthurMorgan1971 Charlie, now there was a sweet Cuckoo. Mother left him on the side of a high-way at 10 years old. Told him I found my lift, now you find your's. We are products of interaction of D.N.A. and enviroment. Nature loads the gun, ENVIROMENT, pulls the trigger.
Hughjarsse, if someone came at you with a hammer and you were able to either flee, or make him regret coming at you with a hammer, I've no doubt that you would respond in that manner free will or not. Jesus talks about turning the other cheek, I've been kicked and punched on both sides in the course of my job over the last two years. I'm not a good fighter, I have the free will to either pray that my attackers will repent as God would want, or to get even one way or another.
As I was just saying with hughjarsee evidenceonly, evolution can be abused as much as religion. The Bible can judge the actions committed in the name of Christianity, what moral source can you judge an atrocity committed in the name of evolutionary thought?
@ArthurMorgan1971 Evolution not just backed by fossil record , but D.N.A. tracing as well. Peer reviewed. Have you learned how hard it is to sell an IDEA ? It's gott'a be watertight ESPECIALLY in the Science arena.
@ArthurMorgan1971 Atrocity in NAME of evolution? No, NIetch and co were not pushing evolution as I know it . More Lamark's evolution perhaps. The two are seperate entities, or ideologies. I can't remember the name of that group right now ,sorry.
Will have to look into the other dating methods before I can pass judgement or draw a conclusion, I have read that carbon dating has tested something to be billions of years that was fairly new..
@ArthurMorgan1971 "Agree, and that's where you've got the free will to choose" This will have to be my last post for a while, why is it that freewill seems to favor the malicious? if someone creeps up behind me and using his freewill he can hit me over the head with a hammer, what happens to my freewill, the freewill I would use to not be hit with a hammer? I have no choice, the hammer man does, his freewill trumps mine EVERY time
@ArthurMorgan1971 If God is in the EYE of the beholder (religious interpretation) or ''REVEALED KNOWLEDGE'' , who can verify what is REVEALED KNOWLEDGE and what is PSCHYTZOPHRENIA ?
My apologies, it's the shortage of comment space to blame. I'll be the first to admit that Christianity has had more of it's fair share of dark history, and can only pray by the Grace of God it doesn't repeat itself. Unfortunately, the issues of paedophilia in the Catholic Church doesn't help the cause.
My point, is that we can agree that people can abuse a worldview to serve their own ends.
@ArthurMorgan1971 Some people WILL abuse just about ANY system, that's the problem. When Religious thought corrupts, which VERIFIABLE SOURCE can be turned too, to prevail a , RATIONAL outcome?
@evidenceonly "hi guy's. still up or to bed for you ?" It's only 12:12pm here, but I am just about to go out, I was saying this is quite a civilized litte debate we're having here, no "I laugh at the thought of you burning in Hell" or blasting creationists for being dumb! (Although the video might fall into that trap...lol)
A lot of Christians do not like Mugabe (I think he's a twat as well). I'm sure that you would claim that Hitler abused evolution as much as I would argue that Hitler and Mugabe have abused the Christian tag.
@ArthurMorgan1971 "A lot of Christians do not like Mugabe (I think he's a twat as well)." I only brought him up because you tried to blame all genocide on evolutionists.
I think we have to be honest here, the main reason you dismiss evolution have nothing to do with with gaps in the scientific evidence, it's because it contradicts the bible! there's nothing wrong with that read about Kurt Wise posibly the highest qualified creationist on the planet
I don't have a problem with natural selection, but I do with life evolving into other life. I saw a video today on how mathematics disproves goo to you evolution.
Carbon dating methods are not as reliable as claimed, and two sayings made me cast doubts on the reliability of datings - "We're only human" and "Garbage In Garbage Out". If man claims to fallible, born to mistake mistakes, can we rely on man devised methods to determine the age of the universe?
@ArthurMorgan1971 " I saw a video today on how mathematics disproves goo to you evolution" ,there was a brilliant ID mathematician called Bill Dembski who tried that, but he missed something out, the odds were calculated after the event and that's illegitimate, the odds of me having a discussion with you are trillions to one, we have to be born at the same time, a time when electricity, computers, fiber optics exist, even after that it's 6 billion to one, but here we are
@ArthurMorgan1971 "Carbon dating methods are not as reliable as claimed" but you would have to believe every other dating method is wrong from Potassium–argon to optically stimulated luminescence dating and everything inbetween, not only must they be wrong but they must all be wrong by the same amount
To almost quote my pastor, A Hitler needs to go back and check his theology. There is nothing Christian about what Hitler did to the Jews and the mentally handicapped, but rather much evolutionary thought. Saying that you're a Christian doesn't make you a Christian, it's what you believe and how you live it. As the old saying goes, "You gotta walk the talk".
Hitler may have claimed to be Roman Catholic, but if you watch the 'Downfall' movie (The one that all those mostly hilarious parodies come from), a lot of evolutionary thought dictated his policies and worldview to the point that the German High Command had no compassion on their own people.
As for Rwanda, I believe it's the other big religion that was responsible, and the Tasmanian Aboriginals were wiped out due to evolutionary thought. Christians would have tried to convert them.
@ArthurMorgan1971 Robert Mugabe Roman Catholic also, Attilla the Hun was religious and is one of the biggest mass murderers in history, can you imagine how many he would have killed if he had 20th century technology?
As long as the laws of science can be tested consistently 100 percent, I've no doubt that there non-Christians who have advanced science, medicine and medical technology.
As for non-religious scientists who don't believe in evolution, go check out the documentary 'The Slaughter Of The Dissidents'. The biggest sin for any scientist is now to have doubts regarding the processes of evolution. Religious Inquisition in reverse.
evolution is a weird, new age theory.....dont believe it.
darkfur35 2 weeks ago
@darkfur35 "evolution is a weird, new age theory"
My Tarot reader assures my it's true, and I never saw anything in her Aura to suggest she was lying
hughjarrse 2 weeks ago
I have a question what are you going to do when Jesus comes and puts a boot up your ass
thatcoolmartian 1 month ago
@thatcoolmartian "I have a question what are you going to do when Jesus comes and puts a boot up your ass"
Exactly the same thing you will do when Xenu puts a boot up your ass! but on a serious note if I should ever come face to face with jesus I would ask him what was the value of instigating a religion that only idiots could believe? why punish intelligence!
hughjarrse 1 month ago
@ArthurMorgan1971 God has just given me a revelation that you (and all members) of the LDS should send me £20 each, minus bureau de change fees.
/sarcasm
You really believe your leader had a revelation? Have you read the "Emperor's New Clothes?" How can you be so naïve? I know religious people who would go "Yeah, right!" at that sort of thing. Also, look up Atheist's Wager.
micmac274 5 months ago in playlist Atheist Music
lolz
Chilldudeski 6 months ago
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TheServiceWeb 6 months ago
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WHY DO WE DISAPPROVE OF NATURALISIM? WELL JUST ASK HITLER HE WILL TELL YOU THAT:"The law of selection justifies this incessant struggle, by allowing the survival of the fittest. Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure."-Adolf Hitler (Naturalist)
2black4bet 8 months ago
Guy one puts an unassembled model car in a box and shakes it up guy 2 creates one with his wisdom... but u dont see the end product until after you make yur guess well o fcourse the logical guess is right turns out guy 2 did create it and the fools who believed the car came to be by accident regret it for the rest of eternity what shame ill keep you in my prayers :)
909Kunfused909 11 months ago
@909Kunfused909 a bit of a vacuous analogy, first off the car parts aren't organic or animate, and secondly there are no parts, remember blasphemy is the only truly victimless crime
cooIandcalculated 11 months ago
ItsChristonabike, I recommend that you visit the Creation Ministries International website, and watch the documentary 'Expelled' by Ben Stein. Scientists are relying on their own devised methods to determine things, and a lot of imagination and wild guesses to go with it. I believe that is more so for evolutionists than creationists, for creationists have at least something of a framework to work with in The Bible. Fact, a lot of renowned scientists over history have been creationists.
ArthurMorgan1971 1 year ago
@ArthurMorgan1971 Arthur, I'm assuming you're Christian too, so as one of your co-religionists let me warn you that CMI, along with Ben Stein's film and the so-called "Intelligent Design" folks (which is just a euphemism for "Creationists") are all trying to sell us a load of crap. I assume from the "1971" in your screenname that you've long since graduated from high school, but I encourage you to revisit what we learned in h.s. biology with a great PBS series and book called simply "Evolution".
GradStud28 8 months ago
@GradStud28 Ultimately we're going to believe what we're going to believe on the matter, but as a Christian you need to ask yourself as whether the Christian Faith of unmerited salvation through Christ's death on a cross for a sinful world would have any foundation other than the book of Genesis (Creation, Everything was good, Deception in the Garden of Eden bringing Sin, Curse and Death)?
ArthurMorgan1971 8 months ago
@ArthurMorgan1971 Actually, Arthur, it's not a matter of "belief" at all, but rather what is demonstrably true based on evidence and reason (which, as a person of faith, one could regard as God-given). You're certainly right to see the significance of Genesis 1-11 for the Christian story of universal history: the Apostle Paul relates the story of the Fall to Christ, and the imagery of Christ as a Second Adam and Mary as a New Eve is powerfully present in many Christian traditions.
GradStud28 8 months ago
... However, the cultural significance of stories, and whatever genuinely real lessons we might learn from them--are (or may be) quite different things from the "reality" of history. I wouldn't want anyone to think, e.g., that because the first 11 chapters of Genesis are myth and not history that these traditions are without value or have nothing to teach us. And I certainly wouldn't suggest that one need renounce Judaism or Christianity or Islam just because our traditions include myths.
GradStud28 8 months ago
Christonabike, I think you mean "called to see the light of common sense", evolution was starting to be tried and found wanting logically months before I was born again.
ArthurMorgan1971 1 year ago
@ArthurMorgan1971 "evolution was starting to be tried and found wanting logically months before I was born again" really, could you point me to a credible (non religious) university that concurs with your thinking (Oops, did I say thinking?) forget biology, every single scientific discipline proves a multi-billion year old universe, from geology to cosmology, to chemistry, optics and physics, the only evidence you have for a young earth is a bronze age book by unknown authors
itsChristonabike 1 year ago
@Art1971 When it comes to your beliefs you're quite happy for a non qualified pseudo scientist to bolster them, I doubt you would let a non qualified pseudo surgeon remove a brain tumor, or have root canal surgery performed by a graduate from "Dave's Bible School & Grill" If you want to believe the earth is 6,000yrs old based on a bronze age book, that's your business, but don't try to justify it with science, scientists & science prove your beleifs erronious, and weaken an already weak case
itsChristonabike 1 year ago
CREATION
lakayna 1 year ago
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@lakayna @ArthurMorgan1971 "CREATION" let me guess! born again? there's nothing worse than somone who "chooses" to be an idiot.
itsChristonabike 1 year ago
As for The Mormon Church, it was that they wanted the blacks' money more than the fearing the Civil Rights groups.
ArthurMorgan1971 1 year ago
If some proof of God turns up, I'd be more than fascinated. I'd either piss myself, or be overwhelmed if He extended the hand of grace like He did nearly 20 years ago.
You would have much more to lose than I would if the eternal consequences are true.
ArthurMorgan1971 1 year ago
@ArthurMorgan1971 That's revalation not proof, When te mormon church wouldn't recognize black people as gods people they were about to fall foul of equal rights law, low and behold the leader of the mormon church had a revelation telling him "all humans are gods people" just in time to avoid a law case. Now I know you don't accept that as revelation from god, yet you find it hard to accept why I wouldn't bee impressed by your revelation
hughjarrse 1 year ago
@hughjarrse I'm not sure as to what exchange you're responding to? The gospel is for all people, I'm aware that there have been churches in America's Deep South that had forgotten that, and the Dutch Reformed Church in South Africa likewise. God had to give a few prods to the early Church in going also to the non-Jewish people through persecution in Jerusalem, and the vision Peter had in Joppa of the living things that in Jewish culture were deemed unclean to eat but were now right to eat.
ArthurMorgan1971 1 year ago
@ArthurMorgan1971 "Behemoth and Leviathan could not be anything other than dinosaur related" to say it couldn't be "anything other" is stretching it a bit.
"As for The Mormon Church, it was that they wanted the blacks' money more than the fearing the Civil Rights groups" no it was definitely civil rights, after all they risked alienating their entire "white" congregation
hughjarrse 1 year ago
@hughjarrse Read the descriptions of the Behemoth and the Leviathan in Job Chapters 40-41, and it's believed to be God speaking to Job and his "comforters".
I'll admit that this is hearsay, but I did hear the Mormons had to change their policy through their "revelation" because they wanted to branch out into Brazil, and what colour people dominate that country?
ArthurMorgan1971 1 year ago
Hughjarsse, Creation Ministries International has served the ball and has gained the advantage in their explanations.
ArthurMorgan1971 1 year ago
@ArthurMorgan1971 "Creation Ministries International has served the ball and has gained the advantage in their explanations"
excellent, well you know why I think the dinosaurs died out, would you be kind enough to furnish me with creationists reason for the mass extinction of 99% of all living creatures? and while you're at it a creationists expatiation for ancient starlight would be figuratively and intellectually illuminating
hughjarrse 1 year ago
@hughjarrse Possible explanation - The Flood, and those that survived either couldn't adjust to the climatic changes or were hunted. The book of Job acknowledged the Behemoth and the Leviathan as living creatures at that time.
I'll try and get back to you on the latter.
ArthurMorgan1971 1 year ago
@ArthurMorgan1971 "The Flood, and those that survived either couldn't adjust to the climatic changes" so why would an omniscient god take such trouble to put them on the Ark?
hughjarrse 1 year ago
@hughjarrse That is a good question, I'll have to look into that one as well. Noah's great-grandson Nimrod was a great hunter so they may have lasted a while after. I don't know how long the dinosaurs existed after the flood, the Behemoth and Leviathan could not be anything other than dinosaur related.
ArthurMorgan1971 1 year ago
@ArthurMorgan1971 The biggest problem I believe throughout all human history is the fallen or corrupt nature of man. From my perspective, it's what brought upon the global flood (The Queensland floods are even making my heart sick now), why Jesus had to die on the cross, and why the world is such a mess today? I believe there is a final judgement coming and thus the call to get right with God in Christ Jesus.
ArthurMorgan1971 1 year ago
@ArthurMorgan1971 You will need to read the Creation Ministries International articles for yourself regarding Ancient Starlight. Type 'Ancient Starlight' on search and you should find the articles. Calculated and observed time, and the pitfalls in measuring the speed of light are thrown around a lot though.
ArthurMorgan1971 1 year ago
Night. Have to rest . Peace to all.
evidenceonly 1 year ago
@evidenceonly You too mate.
ArthurMorgan1971 1 year ago
As much as you just told me regarding quoting the Bible, the Book of Acts and the Epistles/Letters of the Apostle Paul will put that into perspective. I'm sure you are familiar with them?
ArthurMorgan1971 1 year ago
@ArthurMorgan1971 Morality is ''built-into'' evolution. You have INDIVIDUAL response to ENVIROMENT, and GROUP response to enviroment. Form humans, down to bacteria and virus. If the individual, or, group response is WRONG, the species will COLAPSE. Wether God or nature made evolution, morallity (group and individual response to stressors in local enviroment), MORALITY is ''IN-BUILT'' It just is. No MORALITY , No species. Bacteria or human.
evidenceonly 1 year ago
@evidenceonly By your reasoning then, mankind is in deep trouble for morality has really gone down hill over the last few decades.
ArthurMorgan1971 1 year ago
What if someone can prove it to you?
ArthurMorgan1971 1 year ago
@ArthurMorgan1971 Thats the problem. You can't. Ans I know it . Otherwise somebody would have PUBLISHED that information, long ago, and Religion would ,RULE THE WORLD. Has never happened. WHY ? NO VERIFIABLE EVIDENCE. Ever . NONE. That's how it currently stands. Sorry.
evidenceonly 1 year ago
@evidenceonly "Do you need theology to believe in God ? " we can only communicate with words (which is why no one can explain the trinity) , and we have to use words at a level we can all understand otherwise there is no communication.
Theology/philosophy can be interchangeable (like Buddhism) so if you believe there is a god who was involved in the initial creation of the world, a god that caused the "big bang" but them evolution took over, that is a type of theology deiology maybe
hughjarrse 1 year ago
@hughjarrse Thank you .
evidenceonly 1 year ago
@evidenceonly "Thank you"
That's just my take on things ... :o)
hughjarrse 1 year ago
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@hughjarrse I can explain the Trinity exist in Jesus Baptism - The Son being baptised, the Holy Spirit descending like a dove on Jesus' head, and the Father speaking from Heaven, and Jesus instructing the disciples/apostles to baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit/Ghost in the Great Commission [Matthew 28:19].
Paul acknowledges the trinity in 2 Corinthians 13:13, "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all."
ArthurMorgan1971 1 year ago
@ArthurMorgan1971 "What if someone can prove it to you?" Is that to me? prove what?
hughjarrse 1 year ago
@hughjarrse That we've got D.N.A. in common with the kangaroo than apes.
ArthurMorgan1971 1 year ago
@ArthurMorgan1971 "That we've got D.N.A. in common with the kangaroo than apes" Then you have to deal with the facts, but it's already known that some apes share 98-99% genetic similarity which is higher than kangaroos, The bible has been proved "non literal" every single scientific discipline have proved the old age of the universe but you won't accept that! If it was proved that the earth was 6,000yrs old I would have no choice to accept it because I adhere to science.
hughjarrse 1 year ago
@hughjarrse It doesn't necessarily prove evolution or common ancestor, in fairness you will argue that it doesn't prove a common creator. The 98-99% genetic similarity with apes has since been brought down to 95%, but I will go and re-look that up and get back to you tomorrow.
ArthurMorgan1971 1 year ago
@ArthurMorgan1971 It gets very complex, why would god give a dog a better sense of smell than his "highest" creation human? you may say "we had better smell in the past, but it's diminished since the fall" but that wouldn't explain why the dogs smell hasn't diminished, same with eagle and octopus eyes, both better than human eyes
Anyway get some sleep matey!
hughjarrse 1 year ago
@hughjarrse The bloody mongrel gets to hear that little bit more on the Beatles 'Sargeant Peppers Lonely Hearts Club Band' album as well.
Considering the octopus would need better eyes for seeing in water, for the others I'd probably burst into 'That's The Way God Planned It, That's The Way God Wants It To Be, To Be".
ArthurMorgan1971 1 year ago
@ArthurMorgan1971 What you have to understand is I don't care if there's a god or not, it plays no part in how I live my life, I have nothing to lose if some proof of a god turns up I would be fascinated, it wouldn't alter how I lived my life one iota
hughjarrse 1 year ago
According the Bible, most living things were herbivores in the beginning. Man was permitted to eat the flesh of animals after the flood.
I believe that nature was in perfect harmony until the fall in the Garden. You may want ot visit Creation Ministries International as to why the animals mentioned may not have lasted long enough for the evolutionary changes to work.
ArthurMorgan1971 1 year ago
@ArthurMorgan1971 " You may want ot visit Creation Ministries International as to why the animals mentioned may not have lasted long enough for the evolutionary changes to work" on the contrary, evolution explains it beautifully, the problem is squarely in the creationist court
hughjarrse 1 year ago
The point that Jesus was making was that no one had the right to stone someone because under the law, all have sinned. Jesus is the only one who had the right to stone the woman but He came to reveal Grace and Forgiveness by fulflilling the law in being the perfect sacrifice for the redemption of all mankind. In the breaking of his body and the shedding of blood on the cross (The bread and the Cup in Christian Communion), a covenant was put into effect which nullified the old law Mosaic Law.
ArthurMorgan1971 1 year ago
@ArthurMorgan1971 "a covenant was put into effect which nullified the old law Mosaic Law" so when Jesus tells you the law of moses must be "upheld" he doesn't mean it?
hughjarrse 1 year ago
@ArthurMorgan1971 "why are the hardline evolutionists so afraid that they suppress any scientific discoveries that may challenge their party line" I can't think of any off hand, also you are really under estimating the power of greed, can you imagine the money to be made from a "genuine human fossil" it would make king tut's mummy look like a candy bar wrapper! there's the money from the discovery institute and the templeton prize
hughjarrse 1 year ago
@ArthurMorgan1971 "God didn't spare His only begotten Son" Strange one that, Jesus is god, god knew he would get his son back (himself?) no faith involved omniscient certainty, it becomes less of a sacrifice that someone who offers their son on "faith" alone
"the person who wants to claim that Shiva was testing His faith is acting in ignorance" that's an opinion, a devout follower of Shiva would have his own story why yours is a view from ignorance
hughjarrse 1 year ago
@hughjarrse For someone who thinks he's read the Bible more than I have, I think you've really missed something somewhere big time. There can only be One Way to God despite what Oprah Winfrey may say. Jesus is the only one who can back His claim through His death and resurrection. No other religious leader or founder can claim likewise.
ArthurMorgan1971 1 year ago
@ArthurMorgan1971 "For someone who thinks he's read the Bible more than I have, I think you've really missed something somewhere big time Jesus is the only one who can back His claim through His death and resurrection. No other religious leader or founder can claim likewise"
only if you believe it, do you think you would believe in scientology if you read Dianetics 100 times? something either adds up or it doesn't
hughjarrse 1 year ago
In more ancient times hughjarsse, there were different types of slavery. I think at the time, slavery was more concession than endorsement like divorce during the time of Moses. You have to realise that the culture of Biblical times was a lot different to today's Western society. Christian Masters in the New Testament are instructed to treat their slaves fairly because they both have the same Master in Christ Jesus. See response to evidenceonly regarding D.N.A., would make sense Biblically.
ArthurMorgan1971 1 year ago
@ArthurMorgan1971 " the New Testament are instructed to treat their slaves fairly because they both have the same Master in Christ" it also says you can beat your slave as long as "you don't know out teeth, or blind them" if you beat your slave so badly that he dies 24hrs after the attack that is also fine, no offence but quoting the bible to me won't help that much, I have probsbly read it more times than you
hughjarrse 1 year ago
Probably should, but it's how I clear my emails in the process. Your idea is more logical though.
ArthurMorgan1971 1 year ago
@ArthurMorgan1971 Oh, I'm bit new to this form of communication. Always go to you tube site. Didn't know I could do it other ways, but this will suffice, for me.
evidenceonly 1 year ago
@evidenceonly Was hoping that you guys were also on Facebook so responses could flow more easier without the restrictions that Youtube has.
ArthurMorgan1971 1 year ago
@ArthurMorgan1971 Running to keep up with your type speed. Can't do other formats yet. Recently started doing this.
evidenceonly 1 year ago
@evidenceonly Hey Evidence, happy new year to you too, and Artie as well, just been watchin' the floods over there looks terrible
hughjarrse 1 year ago
@hughjarrse Bad for the people involved. Not geographically close myself , thank goodness.
evidenceonly 1 year ago
@hughjarrse Can you tell me your standing ? Agnostic? Islamic? I haven't skill to light-speed type and read all posts.
evidenceonly 1 year ago
@evidenceonly "Can you tell me your standing ? Agnostic? Islamic?"
no probs strictly speaking we're all agnostics because faith means without proof (you can't have faith and certainty) so you have "belief" but you don't "know" so we're a-gnostic (gnostic means "to know") I have no theistic leaning and follow no theology so I am a-theist (no theology)
hughjarrse 1 year ago
@hughjarrse Do you need theology to believe in God ? Sorry should have looked-up ,but I'm guessing you can condense it . Sorry. THANKX.
evidenceonly 1 year ago
Let's just say, both sides need to present their arguments more. Curio, what if you heard that D.N.A. suggests that the Kangaroo is more a close relative to Man than the Ape?
ArthurMorgan1971 1 year ago
@ArthurMorgan1971 Just a beginer in reading D.N.A. Would be suprised at the Kangaroo, ape ,human, but I don't definatively KNOW, have to research on that . D.N.A. seems readable by the spacings between, MISTAKES in the D.N.A. Most animals have SAME coding on LOTS of D.N.A.( nature conserving energy)(and using what works), it's the ALTERED D.N.A. pattern of mistakes that allows us to say AHHHHH, that's where it BRANCHED. Different MISTAKE patterns from that point on.
evidenceonly 1 year ago
@evidenceonly An evolutionary question for you. How could say the bombardier beetle, giraffe, woodpecker or wombat have survived the evolutionary process? The "it somehow developed given a certain period of time", and managed to survive in the meantime would have to been miraculous in itself.
ArthurMorgan1971 1 year ago
@ArthurMorgan1971 would be "why would a god design all mammals from rats to giraffes and everything in between (including us) with 7 neck bones? the question "why do certain species survive" is simple to address in evolutionary terms, as is why 99% of every creature that ever walked the earth is extinct. I see no good reason for a creator to allow 99% of his creations to die, did he get bored? was the design not very good, why did he design creatures that live on the blood of others?
hughjarrse 1 year ago
@ArthurMorgan1971 "what if you heard that D.N.A. suggests that the Kangaroo is more a close relative to Man than the Ape?" you would get a reference sample from a kangaroo and an ape and compare with a human reference sample (which has been done many times) and you would say "well my repeated research show that's not the case"
hughjarrse 1 year ago
Not an outright lie if the Bible does happen to be true. To be fair though, I need to be more convinced of it scientifically, but I'm not discounting it.
ArthurMorgan1971 1 year ago
@ArthurMorgan1971 Sorry, that ''lie'' bit was directed to the people who furnished YOU with it. That really gets my Hackles up. This is how dis-information turns into, BIG TROUBLE.
evidenceonly 1 year ago
You be surprised that man was not so primitive before the flood. Cain, the one who killed his brother, built the first city. Through his family line, they developed metallurgy, musical instruments and weaponry. If you closely studied the design, size and construction of the ark, it was capable of doing what it was able to do in floating out during a raging flood.
I believe that all the various religions came to be after the flood, and when the nations dispersed after the Tower of babel.
ArthurMorgan1971 1 year ago
@ArthurMorgan1971 Hi there, Ill read last post and reply. (Bit slow typeing. Two fingers, HA )
evidenceonly 1 year ago
@ArthurMorgan1971 You ca target your response, by clicking to the right on REPLY. In case multiple conversations going on.
evidenceonly 1 year ago
@ArthurMorgan1971 Here's a book for you. The Golden Bough, by Sir James Frazer. A classic study of what came BEFORE Religion. Was there anything BEFORE modern religion ? Bet your arse there was . HEAPS of it, TONS. About 70,000 years of it . And THAT is wher RELIGION comes from. The recording in the WRITTEN ERA of the EXISTING human knowledge of how the universe operates. EXTEMELY interesting read for anybody interested in where, ALL these belief systems, came from.
evidenceonly 1 year ago
@evidenceonly Here I go, as you requested. It would suggest that man is a spiritual being, which separates us from the animals. In the beginning, and up to the time of Babel, there was only one religion. After the dispersion and the confusing of the languages, the peoples scattered around the earth and forgot much of the knowledge of who God is, so I believe that many of the religions were formed on some partial knowledge of God's nature. The common one is appeasement through sacrifice.
ArthurMorgan1971 1 year ago
@ArthurMorgan1971 Appeasement through sacrifice. If only I could type quicker. The Golden bough by Frazer is largely about. First primitive God, the sky, 2nd is female, the Earth. To early man, it was ALL about, cosmic forces and REJUVINATION. Cyclic, REBIRTH. As demonstrated by the SEASONAL rejuvination of the plants ( emmer wheat), the RAINS, and the wellbeing or, return of ANIMALS, OHH, and the SUN coming up, and the stars moving to the correct tempo. To keep these things happening, you need,
evidenceonly 1 year ago
@evidenceonly The only sacrifice that God desired was from a bull or lamb that was without defect. The concept that most of the worlds religions understood was a sacrifice was needed to appease a higher being, but unfortunately, they also sacrificed humans which angered God big time. I'm sure you'll bring up Abraham again, but I think he had faith that God would spare Isaac which he did.
There was only one human sacrifice that appeased God, and that was His only begotten Son on the cross.
ArthurMorgan1971 1 year ago
@ArthurMorgan1971 Blood sacrifice of the Devine King-god of the tribe has gone on, time immemorable. It basically means in the human sub-concious, O.K. I fullfilled my bit of addoration to the cosmos, NOW the cosmos returns, cyclic rebirth and recreation. It's basically human emotional blackmail. Sounds a bit rough, but there you have it .
evidenceonly 1 year ago
@ArthurMorgan1971 The golden Bough is a compendium of twelve volumes. Packed with, to this day, fully accepted detail, form a wide variety of instances, of EVERY country in the world. The study of where human religious thought came from. When you sacrifice your devine,King-God he is killed before his natural magic wears off and the natural world overwhelms him. Dying of ''natural causes''. A- his magic must be DECAYING, 2- it would not be a SACRIFICE. He must be, knowingly killed.
evidenceonly 1 year ago
@ArthurMorgan1971 When all of these primitive societies sacrifice the D/K/G the ELITE of the society partake in his supernatural magic by, ritualisically joining with them. How is this done?, one might ask. By EATING his body, and drinking his BLOOD. This by now must start to sound a bit eerie to religious people of the Christian faith , because this is exactly what is represented by the''Sacrements''. Canabalism. Oh yes. Makes you think. Doesn't it? Sorry if you just learned of this.
evidenceonly 1 year ago
@evidenceonly I can how that can look that way to you. When Jesus said these things about himself to the people after He had fed 5,000+ people with 5 barley loaves of bread and 2 fish, I'm sure they were pretty much freaked out themselves [John 6:25-59]. I believe that the Catholics do believe that they're eating the flesh and drinking the blood of Christ when they partake in communion, but as a protestant I see the bread and the grape juice as a reminder of Christ's body broken and blood shed.
ArthurMorgan1971 1 year ago
@ArthurMorgan1971 Sacrifice, and for the CRUCIAL events to happen, you sacrificed the best you had, another human being. For early man, these cyclic renewals, rebirths, rejuvinations, or re-CREATIONS, meant E-V-E-RY-THING. Your King-God and I'm talking WAY before EGYPT and SUMERIA, King-God is your pathway or conduit between the natural, and the supernatural, HE holds the destiny of his tribe in his hands. If he fucks-up, the natural cycles of the cosmos, STOP. No rebith, no return of the SUN.
evidenceonly 1 year ago
@evidenceonly Doesn't sound like the God of the Bible.
ArthurMorgan1971 1 year ago
@ArthurMorgan1971 P-L-E-A-S-E , don't think I'm trying to hurt you or your's, but lets examin ALL the information. Truly sorry, if I hurt you.
evidenceonly 1 year ago
@evidenceonly I'm not hurt at all. I admit that I don't have all the answers yet, but it's great that we can exchange what we believe. Probably won't sway each other to our respective point of views. Bottom line is that I will view evidence from a view point that there was an original purpose and thus the work of an awesome creator. You will view things from what you believe is to be true.
ArthurMorgan1971 1 year ago
@ArthurMorgan1971 Good answer. You've held firm, but not digressed to verbal warfare. A passionate topic. Track that Golden book though. Might give you a good laughor, a good think. Either way . . .
evidenceonly 1 year ago
@ArthurMorgan1971 Maybe,I didn't care about hurt (short-term), but I DO care about, HARM (long-term).
evidenceonly 1 year ago
@ArthurMorgan1971 "As for the one who nearly killed his son because God told him to, this was not that simple. The situation was to test Abraham's faith" so would you extend this to someone who's defence was "I only did it because Shiva was testing my faith"?
hughjarrse 1 year ago
@hughjarrse I understand where you're coming from. Fact: 1) God spared Isaac. 2) God didn't spare His only begotten Son in His love and redemption of mankind. 3) Christ death has done away the need for any more blood sacrifices. 4) Christ's salvation is for everyone. Therefore, the person who wants to claim that Shiva was testing His faith is acting in ignorance of the way to God that has been paid for once and for all.
ArthurMorgan1971 1 year ago
Evidenceonly, the same could be said for your lot in that regard. Question, why are the hardline evolutionists so afraid that they suppress any scientific discoveries that may challenge their party line (For the lack of a better word)? If it's just nonsense, what are they afraid of, unless they suspect that it could be true.
This is why I recommend 'The Slaughter Of The Dissidents'.
ArthurMorgan1971 1 year ago
@ArthurMorgan1971 Unfortunetly got to go again. Back at 11.00pm .
evidenceonly 1 year ago
@ArthurMorgan1971 hi, ya, youre quite polite. I'm more used to being abused over these topics on the internet. Please if I'm defensive, ironic ,or sarcastic, take it with a grain of salt, and not personally, as these responses now flow out of me. Some times if I'm really frank and don't put up a defensive front, people start to take advantage. But you haven't , so far. Good going. I'll respond to previous posts as the time presents itself. Few things happening at moment. Take care.
evidenceonly 1 year ago
@ArthurMorgan1971 My bad, I meant was 'Expelled'.
ArthurMorgan1971 1 year ago
[2012] Yes I know that it was the Mayan calendar, but the disaster is the same as was the flood [Genesis Chapter7].
[D.N.A.] It can be traced back to Adam and particularly Noah.
[Fossils in high places] humans may not have lived very high up or in the that region at the time of Noah, so all their fossils were probably found in the lower regions. From what I gather from reading the story line to 2012, the topography of the world may have also changed dramatically from Noah's flood.
ArthurMorgan1971 1 year ago
@ArthurMorgan1971 Early man believed Gods lived on HIGH mountains, because the HIGHER the mountain, the greater the chances of YOU dying ( or getting MYSTERIOUSLY weak and sick ) from LACK OF OXYGEN, or POISONING from sulphurous and other gasess emited by VOLCANOES. But , OF COURSE , ancient, PRIMITIVE man, had no idea of GASESS, so he made-up a story about, God's living there and FORBIDEN to humans. Fantastic explination, but it's one of many, and it happens to be . . . wrong.
evidenceonly 1 year ago
@ArthurMorgan1971 D.N. A. --- linked to Noah and Adam--- W O W. We don't even have their B-O-D-I-E-S. How could we have their D.N.A. ? Where is this D.N.A. ? That is an o-u-t-r-ig-h-t . . . L I E. We do have something called an EVE of modern human D.N. A. . I think, Id'e have to check that though. But it's entirely NOT, what somebodies told you.
evidenceonly 1 year ago
@ArthurMorgan1971 2012, The downfall, and Dan Brown, will take a bit longer to get into. Back at 11.00 pm.
evidenceonly 1 year ago
@evidenceonly Will keep an eye -out for ''Slaughter of the Dissidents. '' Can you summerise it's points, or give me some of this, REPRESSED, knowledge ? I think we'll find, this REPRESSED knowledge, is actually, DISPROVEN knowledge or, currently unresolved knowledge, but lets have a look at it.
evidenceonly 1 year ago
@evidenceonly Generally from what I can gather, it's an interview of scientists, not all of them Christian, that have been maliciously treated or sacked from various science institutions due to their doubts on evolution being scientific fact. The presenter was the science teacher from 'The Wonder Years', and he was also in 'Ferris Bueller's Day Off' as a teacher.
ArthurMorgan1971 1 year ago
@ArthurMorgan1971 Just realised I've given you the wrong film title (Well my Mum brought it to my attention on Facebook). The film I meant to say was 'Expelled' with Ben Stein.
ArthurMorgan1971 1 year ago
@ArthurMorgan1971 "CREATION" let me guess! born again? there's nothing worse than somone who "chooses" to be an idiot.
itsChristonabike 1 year ago
@ArthurMorgan1971 Sorry Mr Mogan sir, that last post wasn't meant for you
itsChristonabike 1 year ago
@ArthurMorgan1971 "[D.N.A.] It can be traced back to Adam and particularly Noah" so where did the reference sample of Adams DNA come form?
"I don't believe that the Bible condones the Child Sex Slave industry running rife in Asia" The fact that the bible condones slavery at all is abhorrent (and it does FACT) are you suggesting it's fine to keep slaves as long as they are not used in the child sex slave industry?
hughjarrse 1 year ago
How much safer would our streets be if kids were disciplined and respected parental and legal authority?
You have to understand the historical context of the situation. The law given unto Israel was given to make people aware of sin and it's consequences until it's fulfillment in The Messiah (Jesus).
ArthurMorgan1971 1 year ago
@ArthurMorgan1971 "The issue of stoning for adultery or whatever acts described in the Old Testament like unruly kids for instance was done away when Jesus wrote in the sand" Two problems with that, one you'll dismiss and one you can't: firstly the The Woman Taken In Adultery story wasn't added until 500yrs after Jesus death. secondly "
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven" Matthew 5
"
hughjarrse 1 year ago
As for the one who nearly killed his son because God told him to, this was not that simple. The situation was to test Abraham's faith which was proved when he believed that God will provide the sacrifice and spare Isaac. Ultimate it took Abraham nearly running the knife into Isaac (Yes, I definitely felt sorry for the poor boy as you would have done no doubt). This was meant as a somewhat prophetic sign that God would sacrifice His only begotten Son. [General Rule] God despises sacrificing kids.
ArthurMorgan1971 1 year ago
I don't believe that the Bible condones the Child Sex Slave industry running rife in Asia today, and wasn't it Christians - William Wilberforce and John Newton (Amazing Grace) that abolished the British slave trade?
The issue of stoning for adultery or whatever acts described in the Old Testament like unruly kids for instance was done away when Jesus wrote in the sand and said, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" [John 8:1-11], and in the Parable of The Lost/Prodigal Son.
ArthurMorgan1971 1 year ago
Guess I'll be catching you tomorrow.
ArthurMorgan1971 1 year ago
@ArthurMorgan1971 Take care. Good to-ing and fro-ing.
evidenceonly 1 year ago
@ArthurMorgan1971 "what moral source can you judge an atrocity committed in the name of evolutionary thought?" actually it's society, society doesn't allow slavery, the bible does,society will lock you up if you "stone your wife to death for not being a virgin" the bible condones it. If you attempted to murder your son because "god told you to" society would lock you up, in a mental hospital or jail
hughjarrse 1 year ago
"How do you determine whats right or wrong through the morality of man?"
"Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel"
"Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death."
"if one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness.
" All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense"
hughjarrse 1 year ago
@ArthurMorgan1971 "Ever wonder where the movie 2012 may have got that idea from?" the Mayan's
"Creationists also claim D.N.A. supports their argument as well" what do they claim?
"what of the fossils of marine creatures found in the Himalayas?" do you know how mountians come about? no creationists believe the water was deep enough to cover Mt Everest because they can't account for the recession of the water, they tend to say Everest came after, and why no human fossils found..... ever!
hughjarrse 1 year ago
You may want to watch the Hitler movie 'Downfall' where all those parodies come from. You may be able to enlighten me on that one.
ArthurMorgan1971 1 year ago
@ArthurMorgan1971 Ah, ww2 an interest of mine. If we study the opponent, long enough (war), we may be able to stop it . Hitler , NOW there was a dangerous, nutter. What-ever ideology he used.
evidenceonly 1 year ago
Creationists also claim D.N.A. supports their argument as well, and what of the fossils of marine creatures found in the Himalayas? Genesis Chapter 7 speaks of a flood covering above the highest mountains. Ever wonder where the movie 2012 may have got that idea from?
ArthurMorgan1971 1 year ago
@ArthurMorgan1971 Goodness, marine fossills on mountains. Ever heard of geographic uplift ? Tectonic plates pushing on one another and the only stress relief available , is UP ? This question answered in roughly 1590. I can pull book out of shelf if you give me a moment. For names , locations and dates.
evidenceonly 1 year ago
@ArthurMorgan1971 Creationists, claim D.N.A. support too. But same problem, some people present an arguement as if they have VERIFIABLE EVIDENCE and should be treated with EQUAL respect. But when you point -out, they actually have----NONE--, they're completely unashamed, and say, regaurdless, they DEMAND , equal respect, for their arguement. I start stepping -back and looking for the door, this kind of thinking is impenetrateable. Weakness in the argument is not acknowledged. How to communicate?
evidenceonly 1 year ago
@ArthurMorgan1971 Marine Fossills on mountaintops. Explianed. Nicolais Steno. Published, '' De solido '' in spring of 1669, with funding from Ferdinand and later Leopoldo, Medici, Tuscanny, Italy. Explains, GLOSSOPETRAE, or,'Tounge Stones '' on mountains near Tuscanny, Italy. Earlier book on same topic,1616 ''Dissertation on Toungestones'' published in Rome,by Fabio Colona. Originally thought to be Magic God Stones, turned out to be Fossillized Shark TEETH.
evidenceonly 1 year ago
@ArthurMorgan1971 Information from, modern book. by ALAN CUTLER, The Seashell on the Mountaintop. Published 2003 RandomHouse, William Heinman.
evidenceonly 1 year ago
How do you determine what's right or wrong through the morality of man? Why do most people just a celebrity for doing something that they'd wouldn't think twice about doing like adultery for instance? Where do you draw the line on murder when abortion is permitted?
ArthurMorgan1971 1 year ago
@ArthurMorgan1971 Morality is a system Evolution has that filters good traits from bad, in a group. Sorry but, no mind cracking cosmic question , contained or needed.
evidenceonly 1 year ago
The Bible is the Christian's verification of revealed knowledge. It's how we know when God is speaking unlike some crazed murderous hippy named Charles Manson who thought that God spoke to him through the Beatles 'White Album'.
ArthurMorgan1971 1 year ago
@ArthurMorgan1971 Made me laugh.
evidenceonly 1 year ago
@ArthurMorgan1971 Charlie, now there was a sweet Cuckoo. Mother left him on the side of a high-way at 10 years old. Told him I found my lift, now you find your's. We are products of interaction of D.N.A. and enviroment. Nature loads the gun, ENVIROMENT, pulls the trigger.
evidenceonly 1 year ago
Hughjarsse, if someone came at you with a hammer and you were able to either flee, or make him regret coming at you with a hammer, I've no doubt that you would respond in that manner free will or not. Jesus talks about turning the other cheek, I've been kicked and punched on both sides in the course of my job over the last two years. I'm not a good fighter, I have the free will to either pray that my attackers will repent as God would want, or to get even one way or another.
ArthurMorgan1971 1 year ago
As I was just saying with hughjarsee evidenceonly, evolution can be abused as much as religion. The Bible can judge the actions committed in the name of Christianity, what moral source can you judge an atrocity committed in the name of evolutionary thought?
ArthurMorgan1971 1 year ago
@ArthurMorgan1971 The morality of man.
evidenceonly 1 year ago
@ArthurMorgan1971 Evolution not just backed by fossil record , but D.N.A. tracing as well. Peer reviewed. Have you learned how hard it is to sell an IDEA ? It's gott'a be watertight ESPECIALLY in the Science arena.
evidenceonly 1 year ago
@evidenceonly The amount of inter-related, cross- field, interlinking, evidence is irrifutable.
evidenceonly 1 year ago
@ArthurMorgan1971 Atrocity in NAME of evolution? No, NIetch and co were not pushing evolution as I know it . More Lamark's evolution perhaps. The two are seperate entities, or ideologies. I can't remember the name of that group right now ,sorry.
evidenceonly 1 year ago
Will have to look into the other dating methods before I can pass judgement or draw a conclusion, I have read that carbon dating has tested something to be billions of years that was fairly new..
ArthurMorgan1971 1 year ago
@ArthurMorgan1971"Will have to look into the other dating methods before I can pass judgement" a few more to check
Uranium-thorium
Radiocarbon
Fission track
Chlorine-36
Uranium-lead
amarium-neodymium
Potassium-argon
Rubidium-strontium
hughjarrse 1 year ago
@hughjarrse Happy New Year. Hope it's a good one for you personally. Best regards.
evidenceonly 1 year ago
Agree, and that's where you've got the free will to choose.
ArthurMorgan1971 1 year ago
@ArthurMorgan1971 "Agree, and that's where you've got the free will to choose" This will have to be my last post for a while, why is it that freewill seems to favor the malicious? if someone creeps up behind me and using his freewill he can hit me over the head with a hammer, what happens to my freewill, the freewill I would use to not be hit with a hammer? I have no choice, the hammer man does, his freewill trumps mine EVERY time
hughjarrse 1 year ago
@ArthurMorgan1971 If God is in the EYE of the beholder (religious interpretation) or ''REVEALED KNOWLEDGE'' , who can verify what is REVEALED KNOWLEDGE and what is PSCHYTZOPHRENIA ?
evidenceonly 1 year ago
My apologies, it's the shortage of comment space to blame. I'll be the first to admit that Christianity has had more of it's fair share of dark history, and can only pray by the Grace of God it doesn't repeat itself. Unfortunately, the issues of paedophilia in the Catholic Church doesn't help the cause.
My point, is that we can agree that people can abuse a worldview to serve their own ends.
ArthurMorgan1971 1 year ago
@ArthurMorgan1971 Some people WILL abuse just about ANY system, that's the problem. When Religious thought corrupts, which VERIFIABLE SOURCE can be turned too, to prevail a , RATIONAL outcome?
evidenceonly 1 year ago
hi guy's. still up or to bed for you ?
evidenceonly 1 year ago
@evidenceonly "hi guy's. still up or to bed for you ?" It's only 12:12pm here, but I am just about to go out, I was saying this is quite a civilized litte debate we're having here, no "I laugh at the thought of you burning in Hell" or blasting creationists for being dumb! (Although the video might fall into that trap...lol)
hughjarrse 1 year ago
hughjarsse, there's hope for you yet.
ArthurMorgan1971 1 year ago
@ArthurMorgan1971 sorry to break-in . My basic arguement. Should people, be able to believe what they want, REGUARDLESS , of verifiable evidence ?
evidenceonly 1 year ago
Or could be the will of our omniscient friend or foe in the sky hey?
ArthurMorgan1971 1 year ago
A lot of Christians do not like Mugabe (I think he's a twat as well). I'm sure that you would claim that Hitler abused evolution as much as I would argue that Hitler and Mugabe have abused the Christian tag.
ArthurMorgan1971 1 year ago
@ArthurMorgan1971 "A lot of Christians do not like Mugabe (I think he's a twat as well)." I only brought him up because you tried to blame all genocide on evolutionists.
I think we have to be honest here, the main reason you dismiss evolution have nothing to do with with gaps in the scientific evidence, it's because it contradicts the bible! there's nothing wrong with that read about Kurt Wise posibly the highest qualified creationist on the planet
hughjarrse 1 year ago
And they needed to go back and check their theology as well like the entire New Testament for instance.
ArthurMorgan1971 1 year ago
I don't have a problem with natural selection, but I do with life evolving into other life. I saw a video today on how mathematics disproves goo to you evolution.
Carbon dating methods are not as reliable as claimed, and two sayings made me cast doubts on the reliability of datings - "We're only human" and "Garbage In Garbage Out". If man claims to fallible, born to mistake mistakes, can we rely on man devised methods to determine the age of the universe?
ArthurMorgan1971 1 year ago
@ArthurMorgan1971 " I saw a video today on how mathematics disproves goo to you evolution" ,there was a brilliant ID mathematician called Bill Dembski who tried that, but he missed something out, the odds were calculated after the event and that's illegitimate, the odds of me having a discussion with you are trillions to one, we have to be born at the same time, a time when electricity, computers, fiber optics exist, even after that it's 6 billion to one, but here we are
hughjarrse 1 year ago
@ArthurMorgan1971 "disproves goo to you evolution" if you like catch phrases have this:
1 man + 3 nails = 4 giveness
hughjarrse 1 year ago
@ArthurMorgan1971 "Carbon dating methods are not as reliable as claimed" but you would have to believe every other dating method is wrong from Potassium–argon to optically stimulated luminescence dating and everything inbetween, not only must they be wrong but they must all be wrong by the same amount
hughjarrse 1 year ago
To almost quote my pastor, A Hitler needs to go back and check his theology. There is nothing Christian about what Hitler did to the Jews and the mentally handicapped, but rather much evolutionary thought. Saying that you're a Christian doesn't make you a Christian, it's what you believe and how you live it. As the old saying goes, "You gotta walk the talk".
ArthurMorgan1971 1 year ago
Hitler may have claimed to be Roman Catholic, but if you watch the 'Downfall' movie (The one that all those mostly hilarious parodies come from), a lot of evolutionary thought dictated his policies and worldview to the point that the German High Command had no compassion on their own people.
As for Rwanda, I believe it's the other big religion that was responsible, and the Tasmanian Aboriginals were wiped out due to evolutionary thought. Christians would have tried to convert them.
ArthurMorgan1971 1 year ago
@ArthurMorgan1971 Robert Mugabe Roman Catholic also, Attilla the Hun was religious and is one of the biggest mass murderers in history, can you imagine how many he would have killed if he had 20th century technology?
hughjarrse 1 year ago
Comment removed
ArthurMorgan1971 1 year ago
As long as the laws of science can be tested consistently 100 percent, I've no doubt that there non-Christians who have advanced science, medicine and medical technology.
As for non-religious scientists who don't believe in evolution, go check out the documentary 'The Slaughter Of The Dissidents'. The biggest sin for any scientist is now to have doubts regarding the processes of evolution. Religious Inquisition in reverse.