The moderator talks about the U.S. dropping the bomb on hiroshima, some might say that is a different era and not relevent to this conversatin. I just think he's a fuckwit.
The US, the United Nations, China, the European Union and every other organization on earth should pass a law against this jackass being a moderator ever again. A chimp jumping up and down on the center chair for 2 hours would have been less distracting and would have contributed something more intelligent to the discourse.
We dropped an atomic bomb on the Japanese for 1 reason. To end the war. Killing 70,000 people in moment was far better than having 1 million japanese and americans killed over the next year it would have taken to end the war.
@TheRoncaldwell I'm sure if we look hard enough we can find someone who claims to be a secular humanist who has committed murder. the point is that secular humanism in itself is opposed to murder and no one would commit murder because of secular humanism.
Is the moderator trying to suggest the invasion by early Arab Muslims of India, Northern Africa, Palestine, Portugal, Italy, many Greek islands in the Mediterranean, and the majority of the Middle East is as a result of the placement of Saddam Hussein as leader of Iraq? Or the result of any of the rest of his examples?
‘Disproportionately well–off and disproportionately educated’. Correct. As someone living in Britain, I was one of those shocked at the actions of the suicide bombers on July the 7th. They were well–educated, ‘normal’–seeming homegrown terrorists.
For the Moderator to make the point that no Muslim society has ever used a nuclear weapon, and our society(America) did, is one of the most obnoxious cases of moral equivalency I've ever heard, and completely presents an event in a historical vacuum. It disregards the entire mindset of both America and Japan in 1945, and a so-called "Moderator" making as ignorant a comment as he did shows his complete bias and self-righteous Liberal ignorance
I'm glad the moderator brings up that the religion is a response to policies. Thats my one disagreement I have with Sam Harris. People blow themselves up for political reasons. Happy muslims don't blow themselves up. Politically disenfranchised ones do. Gah Sam cmon!
Since when were the well fed, highly educated highjackers (Atta etc) on 9/11 disenfranchised? People blow themselves up because the fundamentals of their religion tells them it is ok to kill the infadels. That they will get 72 virgens etc etc. If it were the policies.... do you have any notion of what China does in Tibet? How many monks have blown up buildings? How many monks have beheaded innocent people (aid workers journalists etc) in the last decade?
@jasper7750 Maybe they felt they needed to do something for their disenfranchised compatriots? Much like North America did in World War 2? Not too far fetched. I'll concede that Islam is violent and legitimizes suicide bombing. But placing all the blame on Islam detracts responsibility from aggressive American Foreign policy (and similar policies in other nations). Is Noam Chomsky somewhere around here to help explain?
@johnpotter26 If it's really just politics and not religion, then you're going to have to explain why there are no Tibetan suicide bombers killing innocent Chinese non-combatants. Most muslim suicide bombers come from mainstream muslim society. They are usually always born into relatively wealthy families, receive college education, and never experience abuse from western powers. It's islam. and the sooner we realize that, the better.
And I'm telling you guys, especially the two guys with top rated comments, that you are MORONS. Just because someone is not sitting in Sam Harris's chair does not make them wrong, or idiots. Just because they disagree about the finer nuances regarding the exact role that religion is playing in the world's ills does NOT make them "self-engrossed" or ranged 2v1 against Sam.
the search for cultural identity exists because theres a freaking book telling them that is where they come from. immigrants who go to a new place open minded have no problem in finding worthy narratives to live. It is only when you are "stuck" to certain narratives, by indoctrination aka brainwashing, and those narratives can't be put into practice that identity generates crisis... so it's still belief that is the main problem
and THIS is where atheism behaves like a dogma, in the sense that it alienates and is intolerant of anyone who even alludes to a God. Instead of believing in freedom of thought (as you would expect from someone who believes in nothing) they want to convert everyone to atheism. Faith comes from within, and if someone can coexist peacefully while maintaining their faith, why provoke that? Why not teach equality, adaptability, tolerance and understanding instead?
@susmita666 I'm more than willing to accept that a deity or the supernatural exist once someone provides valid evidence for it. Until then, we should assume they do not exist.
@Skindoggiedog i dont get it. u just proved my point. you said its fair to dismiss someone who claims to a knowledge they don't have. so what gives atheists the right to make such extreme claims? Isn't that double standards? we can turn the argument around any way we like, which is why I'm saying it's safe to believe in God, and if you don't, fair enough, there's no need to prove yourself coz you cant. And how can I "lie" when I already admitted that I DON'T KNOW anything for sure?
@susmita666 "so what gives atheists the right to make such extreme claims"
They don't.
The people who say atheists make the claim that no god exists are theists who want an equally ridiculous opposite claim. Some atheists do claim that there is no god. Some atheists wear blue pants. You don't have to do either to be an atheist, though.
Just 'not holding a belief in a god' is enough to earn the title 'atheist'.
@susmita666 - "And how can I "lie" when I already admitted that I DON'T KNOW anything for sure? "
Because you make absolute statements about things you KNOW you have no knowledge of, which I already pointed out. These are constant, deliberate falsehoods. A.K.A Lies.
You say 'god exists'. Why say it if you don't know it? If you're not sure?
The real reason you find it acceptable is because so many people are doing it. That doesn't make it okay. It's still lying.
@susmita666 "they want to convert everyone to atheism"
No, they want you to stop making public claims about things you have absolutely no knowledge of. Hold any private belief you like, just don't come out in public saying things like you know something about a "creative force driving our universe" Talking about "this God entity", as if you have some information others don't.
YOU DON'T HAVE THAT INFORMATION. You have zero on this. Zip. Nada. Nothing.
lol the moderator is the only rational person on this stage. sam harris is just a very charismatic, humorous and obviously well-read persoanality but he's also an atheist. the universe could NOT have been created out of nowhere. and its infutile arguing against God, because there's no proof of His/Her/It's/Their non-existence. God can be anything from a wave of energy to an army of mice, but who is Sam Harris to say there's nothing before the Big Bang? If religion is delusional, so is atheism!!
I'm simply saying that the unknown creative force driving our universe is who/what we call God. I don't know the nature of this God entity and that's not important either. The concept is too immense to even ponder over, and we don't have any evidence against it. until we have that, there's no loss in believing in God. You don't have to follow an organised religion in order to appreciate intelligent design, you could be totally against religion and still believe in God.
@susmita666 //You don't have to follow an organised religion in order to appreciate intelligent design, you could be totally against religion and still believe in God.//
Unfortunately, there are billions of people that don't have your conception of faith. If there were, I'd have no problem with religion at all.
This debate shows, that moderating a debate is apparently an impossible task for a narcicist. Instead of directing the debate and making sure that the debate does not lose its course, he is acting like a third party in this debate with the advantage that he can stop both at any time and talks as much as he wants.
@13stevejohnson I would dispute that, that indeed it was secular because in terms of his leadership Saddam Hussein was the top of the heap. He didn't oppose the practice of religion because likely, it has its uses, similar to how the Russian Orthodox Church had its place in Soviet Russia. Now in Iraq Hussein may have simply replaced Mohammad with himself as the savior of his people. It became a cult of personality which has many similarities to religion. Christianity is the cult of Jesus.
You can tell someone is losing a debate when they have to trot out the accusation of racism. Harris does an excellent job of defending himself against this cheap shot in the next segment.
Christians are subject to the same injustices as Muslims but they don't rip children apart with suicide bombers. If you listen to the suicide bombers they are in a state of religious exaltation. They really believe they are going to paradise to get their virgins and they get that from the Koran not from suffering a hard life. The educated are just as indoctrinated as the uneducated but they are the ones who should know better. the point is - they aren't.
Harris makes a mistake regarding how suicide bombers are more educated and wealthy. the point he misses is, the POLICIES target poor powerless people, and the wealthier educated people with too much time on their hands go crazy about the injustice of those policies. you can get angry at something you see, which is directed at someone else.
@globallove I somewhat agree.. but he did say it filters down to the foot soldiers. I think his point is that it isn't limited to the, as he says "the poorest of the poor, etc" That fear frustration and anger is probably the easiest to fan in the poor uneducated. When we see the face of religious right in this nation, we are shown the ball cap , gun welding redneck with God and Guns sticker on his pick-up. Behind them are the we are shown teh Bush's, Palin's Limbaugh's with power prestige etc.
@globallove But you don't those rich elite in the trenches here, you don't see them in suicide planes.. that image of those pilots may (may mind you) just be an isolated incident we really don't know because something on that magnitude has not happened since 9/11. And we really don't know who is in all those exploding cars etc.
Harris is difficult to listen to because he strains to link everything to the tension between faith and reason. He tries to blame Bush's policies on the faith he claims to have. Then the moderator asks if Bush was just using religion for political gain and Harris shifts the discussion to Muslims in England. If we should fixate on anything to gain a better understanding of the world it is corporations. Capitalism and faith in markets are the operative beliefs of today, not Christianity or Islam
@Starwheel6 Can you please elaborate on how? Do you think Harris was better in this debate or Hedges???
By highlight a little part here, what you actually mean is this is one of the only times in the talk where Hedges actually makes something like a valid point. Harris is making them every minute.
@ThatGuyWhoSucksBoobz i suspect it's because he debates so well that the moderators feel sorry for the people he's debating. shitty moderation in my opinion.
And I'm telling you guys, especially the two guys with top rated comments, that you are MORONS. Just because someone is not sitting in Sam Harris's chair does not make them wrong, or idiots. Just because they disagree about the finer nuances regarding the exact role that religion is playing in the world's ills does NOT make them "self-engrossed" or ranged 2v1 against Sam.
Sam Harris may right on theology, but his politics is analogous to the American triumphalism of the right-wing. His support for the afghanistan war and the belligerent militarism against Iran undercuts his espousal of reason. The man is abominably ahistorical and cites hawkish figures like Alan Dershowitz in The End of Faith. I thought Sam won this contest the first time I saw it, but a closer reading finds him wanting . Final result: Sam wins theologically, but Hedges prevails politically.
@PhilosopherSY theologically there is not much disagreement between them, politically hedges is much more thoughtful and nuanced but Im still not convinced that islam isn't fundamentally malign and dangerous.
As an ex-Muslim I concur that Islam poses a grave menace to the whole superstructure on which civilisation stands. Islam is not a creed merely, but an imperial ideology of expansionism which seeks to colonise the West through fecundity. Agreed, but Harris forcibly strikes me as an espouser of a militarism with an atheist tinge. He seldom questions the corporate driven interests of war unlike Hedges. His sophistication deserts him and out comes the knuckledragging neanderthal.
I’ll give Harris credit: at least he dispels the myth that religious belief goes up when education goes down, and vice-versa—a myth commonly held by most atheists. The fact that the 9/11 hijackers were college-educated (most with PHDs) proves that religious belief—especially militant fundamentalist belief—is not a by-product of ignorance and poverty, and that education is not a panacea for religious or supernatural belief.
Robert Scheer is a terrific writer, but whoever booked him to moderate a debate needs to find another job. He seems to think the job of a moderator is to be some sort of talk-show host.
The moderator comments that "We" dropped the atomic bomb. Not Muslims. Who is We? I didn't drop the bomb and I'm part of the United States. The Us/Them talk needs to stop. Humans on the North American continent tend to believe one thing or another. Humans in the Middle East believe other things still. Patriotism poisons the moral discussion. Saying America in the forties is the same America as exists today, including the morality and common races, is wrong.
@ashleylovesdaddy "Patriotism poisons the moral discussion..." Yes, it does
Patriotism, nationalism, religion, ALL group loyalty is dangerous and suspect. Leaders use patriotism to whip up public support for certain policies (esp. war). The Christian right got "in God we trust" on all the money and added "under God" to the "one nation" in the pledge of allegiance, within the 20th century. Hedges is right about that; sneakily equating patriotism with christianity for their own purposes
So..... I enter a highschool across country; identity crisis at an impressionable age! Gonna join a neo-nazi group and f**k s**t up! Can't blame me, I was out of my element and misguided. Geez....
And I'm telling you guys, especially the two guys with top rated comments, that you are MORONS. Just because someone is not sitting in Sam Harris's chair does not make them wrong, or idiots. Just because they disagree about the finer nuances regarding the exact role that religion is playing in the world's ills does NOT make them "self-engrossed" or ranged 2v1 against Sam.
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@com869 what sort of retort is that?...... Of course i have my mind made up....only a fucking idiot (which you definately qualify) would argue for a point the dont agree with.
My mind is obviously open enough to consider discourse, (or i wouldn't be here typing). You're a nullity.
Your unworthy of the time already spent.
Put your head back up your butt-hole.....spare me your cretinous crap.
@com869 You're right, i do believe that the Wests' idea of freedom is best......only a liberal multi-culti dumb-nut thinks his own preference should be denied, regardless of the consequences. When the religious tell me i should die because i dont believe their ideology, you bet your life i'll fight back. When they come to my locale and demand that i become one of them or face the consequences...too fucking right i hit back. You're why they are so successful....they know you'll capitulate
Only 100,000 Kurds......according to the UN 2 1\2 million died while under Sadam's regime....thats 250 every week of every year the bastard was in power. The million that have died since have been killed by the warring religious sects...shiite\sunni......you piece of shit
You must mean when he refused to cooperate with our orders to do with his country with what we wanted him to?
Saddam was appointed to office for serving the needs of the cia, by taking out the previous dictator. He was a sharp shooter who was injured, and for his duties we gifted the state of Iraq to him.
@360atGOD ...indeed, and again when he got too smart he was dealt to. The US also took advantage of both sides during WWII prior to their involvement....selling arms to both sides. This, in case you dont realize, is the world we live in. And of course, if someone is handed power then he shouldn't bite the hand that fed him...saddam did......thus paid for it. Iraqi's died at the rate of 250 a week, every week of Saddams 25 year tenure. The US's guilt was allowing him to stay so long
So your telling me now that he is out of power all is well? If Iraqies were worse off when Saddam was in office, why do we currently have over 100,000 mercenaries on the ground now? (Not amry) So you are telling me that all the DEPLETED URANIUM that we used in our weapons during desert storm and and currently using, isn't going to affect the populus today? We are using weapons of mass destruction on the middle east as i type, even though the UN has outlawed it.
Saddam had a nuke reactor courtesy of France and the means to launch courtesy of UK firm had they not been discovered in transit. He admitted his big mistake was that he didn't wait until he was fully nuked up before going into Kuwait. Maybe you're right, perhaps the US shoulda left him where he was....dumb-nuts. But dont worry, looks like we'll get to see how it would have turned out via Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. We'll all be happier with Mamoud at the helm.The killing in iraq is via muslim v muslim
@com869 your arrogance is surpassed by your ignorance....tell a Kurd (or a shiite) that they prefer being slaughtered by sadam, to his face!...go on you filthy theist ....Rationalize your evil god in order to justify doing nothing. Like France, like the UN...filthy evil bastard
@com869 i dont make excuses, i dont need to. 7 jewish males in france murdered (butchered) by 'youths'....the spineless media dont mention the coincidence that these 'youths' all happened to be muslims. The pope tells us that AIDS is bad, really bad, but naturally and reasonably not as bad as condoms. But heres a good reason for being in Iraq....over 100,000 Kurds slaughtered, many thousands by chemicals,men women and children. Excuses bastards like you make dont matter...scumbag
PS..I never suggested any way of life so ur claim is fatuous, u are bereft of any clue as to what kind of world u live in, and are easy meat for the intolerant. Its common knowledge that americans in general know fuck all about anything outside their border, however, your cleverest are indeed clever, and despite your personal arrogant ignorance, they understand the deal and will save u from urself. Now my venereal friend...fuck off.Spare me any more of ur excretions. Get ye behind me, be gone!
U epitomise the reason i can relax.The west has niether the spine, will or nous to combat a fifth column thats eating it away. The only thing u said anywhere close was that i hate religion....too fucking right i do and thats my strength.I can grow that long beard and pretend, spineless pricks like you have no where to go but obey or die. Like europe, it wont be long before the Gays are being murdered ( jews already are), feminists being stoned, and ignorant pricks like u will still make excuses
The Islamists have already Sharia in europe, cliterectomy clinics on our street corners, they tell us we're scum while taking refuge from their own despots. They openly declare their global intent with violence a prerequisite. They attack young western girls in paris, manchester, Copenhagen and Madrid for not wearing headscarves (it causes muslim men offence). They come to your country and tell you to ur face you are filth.....and you apologise. Yeh, its all our fault...we deserve whats coming
95% of the killing in Iraq is shiite v sunni ... pure coincidence? Islams current fight against the Infidels is but a mere interlude in its never ending war on itself. If Islam in particular was not claiming universal durisdiction over the planet then the US and any other hegemon with the power wouldn't need to be there.Churchill,100 years ago and jefferson 100 years prior understood the Islamic problem and nothing has changed except our willingness to blame ourselves.
I cant take you seriously now. I suggest you take a look at the UN's list of conflicts since 1990........almost entirely religious esp in africa. Its an indictment that in sudan alone over 2 million christians have been slaughtered yet few even know there's a problem. From europe to the Balkans to the Caucasus to africa to indonesia to thailand...and many in between...all religious. And its this stultifying notion that if we pretend it doesn't exist its not happening. i'm done
No..... its very much harder to rationalize murder outside religiom. Of course it'll occur but as i stated earlier, anyone who proposed the anti-condom stance as the RC church does would be strung up as an insidious monster...... dressed in religion its actually given virtue. Besides, how many 15 year olds would blow up a cafe for Naziism, communism, or capitalism....you might find some somewhere but if you fail to see the difference then ur too far up ur own arse....just as Hedges is.
The claim to emotion about muslim mothers not grieving is not as clear cut as he suggests...and he knows its not. There ARE Muslim mothers who teach their children to become martyrs. Again.....take the religious enticement away and these people are harder to find. Humanity wont suddenly live in a peaceful world but the incompatable claims of religion ensure progress is impossible. PS...Iran's proxy military has invaded other countries,and watch where they go when they have the threat of nukes.
No one is suggesting that we'd live happily ever after if religion disappeared. But ridding the world of the religious virus would rid us the most heinous vehicle of violence. Evil bastards will do evil and they cannot hide it, but frame it in religion and it can be seen as a virtue. The Pope tells 1.2 billion RC's that AIDS is bad but not as bad as condoms...this is evil and only the claims' religious framework gives the idea credence. Had any Govt made the same claim they'd be strung up!
yeah and I guess the USA uses chemical weapons on other ethnic groups or have national police that rape women so that we make can make a loophole in a medeival law about not being able to kill virgins
if you dont like the USA you can kiss my keester you butt-fucking piece of shit!!!
I agree, I just wanna get rid of religion because idiots like Pat Robertson and the entire Christian right, I wish they would vanish overnight, I really fucking do
and these pathetic peaces of shit overseas bowing in front of a fucking rock too, the ones flying planes into our fucking buildings while claiming to be peaceful
OMG, do me a favor chicken Little, read a fucking book, smoke a fucking blunt, and chill the fuck out.
The US is not the country that regularly talks about killing Jews like Iran does, and the USSR has supplied more weapons to the third world than probably all of NATO combined
what's the most common assault rifle in the world? Kalashnikov
I like Hedges to a degree but he is still avoiding the role religion plays in things such as suicide bombings. Yes, of course there are other, powerful factors, but take away the essential ingredient of honoring martyrdom, and you don't have suicide bombers. He (wrongly) states the Tamil Tigers invented suicide bombing. But the Tamil Tigers are based on a cult of personality, devout followers of Velupillai Prabhakaran. Their against religion officially, but cults of personality replace religion
why would mothers grieve if their sons are going to a better place? If they truly believe in their religion, why would they grieve. People are ridiculous, because deep down they don't really believe, which is why they get so offended.
I hate when the moderator gives his opinion. I don't give a shit what he thinks. He's there to do a job. Do it and shut up.
His silly little point about the USA dropping nukes despite being highly reasonable, contributes nothing but white noise to the discussion. The population of the USA is not reasonable. Try getting a secular Scandinavian country to drop nukes. That'll prove a quite a challenge, I'm sure.
everyone who ive ever seen debate harris speaks around what he says. they never defeat any of his premises or arguments but talk about something different in their rebuttals. hedges appears to be debating another topic altogether "god is everything, god is a verb..." what nonsense.
Haha. Yeah, god is a verb, that was one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. Harris is a fantastic speaker and is one of the best at actually being logical in debates. I've never seen an equal opponent to him.
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Mr. Harris, UNTIL PROVEN OTHER WISE -SCIENCE- SAYS THAT 9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB..........AND I CAN'T UNDERSTAND WHO GIVE YOU THE RIGHT TO SET UP THERE AND TALK ABOUT NO GOD WHEN YOU ARE DOING NOTHING MORE THEN SHOWING YOU ZEALOTS ZIONIST UPBRING AND POLITICAL VIEWS.
harris is the ONLY american i have heard in forty eight years that actually talks sense THIS IS THE MAN YOU SHOULD HAVE FOR PRESIDENT ...REALLY he isnt trying to say something he IS saying something
@ArtistEnrique the only person? ever heard of christopher hitchens, lawrence krauss, richard dawkins, dan dennet, jerry coyne and so on. watch "Lawrence Krauss A Universe From Nothing"
When the moderator said no muslim ever used a nuclear weapon, but we did; all I can say is that's because they haven't developed them yet. 10 mins. after they master that technology they're going to use it, i guarantee you that.
Typical Christian apologist argument.. " It's not the religion its their position in life..." Yeah but its religion that gives them the basis for believing such horrible actions are justified. Sam Harris is totally right! How dare that intellectual retard Hedges accuse Harris of racism too!?!? And the moderator clearly doesn't have a fuck sense clue what he's talking about! Iraq was secular under Saddam!?! No they didn't going around blowing each other up then cuz Saddam would beat the to it!
The moderator is a douche. He says "For the people in the audience applauding. No Muslim has ever used a nuclear weapon. Our government has."
Hmmm, maybe that's because they don't possess the technology yet. Otherwise I'm sure they would use the bomb. Yes I'm aware of Pakistan, and I haven't exhaled just yet.
America and Britain are the most savage forces in world history; these are not muslim nations. Look to your own before you make emotional accusations against a people who have been repeatedly trampled on across modern history. The major bomb-holders are largely white, Judeo-Christian throwbacks. This cannot be denied: we are the blood-hungriest.
My thoughts exactly. "They haven't used nuclear weapons yet."
That's simply because they've never had them, thankfully. You're an idiot if you think the people who are willing to fly airplanes into buildings, killing themselves and as many other people as possible, wouldn't use a WMD if they had any.
@baillou2 Actually that was a very good point. It tells you religion isn't to blame, people with power are. In fact, numerous polls have shown that most of the world believe the United States are the biggest threat to world peace.
@brucejuice52 Of course people with power are to blame. Generally speaking the powerless, disenfranchised of the world haven't done much (until they acquire power that is). Thanks Captain Obvious!
All I'm saying is that of the most powerful people/nations/organizations in the world it's the fanatically religious ones that scare me, USA included.
@baillou2 America's foreign policy is not guided by religon. Sam Harris says this, but he has little knowledge of world politics, that's why he avoids debating it. It surely has some ideological foundations, but it isn't Christianity. And US' decision to drop the bomb on Japan was not religiously motivated. It was motivated strictly by power-politics. Nationalism and power-politics is the cause for most suffering in the 20th century, not religion.
@brucejuice52 Sam Harris probably does overstate the role of religion in socio-political issues, but his central argument is simply that we should have the right to criticize religious claims and take a stand against dogmatic nonsense. At this stage it is still considered offensive and taboo.
The religions don't necessarily cause the problems....however, social problems tend to be made worse, even intractable, by the addition of religious dogma.
First, there is no genetic marker for "race", there is simply no such thing. Second, if one assumes, incorrectly, that there is a race, the people of the Middle East are considered Caucasiods, just like "white" Americans. Third, and finally, it is not an issue of race, since race is simply a false human construct, but more importantly, it is the actions of the religious zealots that one should hate, not their skin color. I despise Islam, as I do Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, etc--not people.
The moderator talks about the U.S. dropping the bomb on hiroshima, some might say that is a different era and not relevent to this conversatin. I just think he's a fuckwit.
orbital92hotmail 5 days ago
9:40 they should just give up their religion and become apart of society then,
Typho0n86 1 month ago
that claim of racism was unjustified
jadagod 1 month ago
The first time someone listened to a Bush, about a half-million people wondered about in the desert for about 40 years!
BigFatHeretic 2 months ago
this "mediator" is terrible. harris takes the whole thing on with grace and patience.
a bad ass and a gentleman.
saitamme 4 months ago
The moderator keeps saying he doesn't want to put anyone on the spot but does...is the clever word for this, disingenous?
bovinicide 5 months ago
The moderator did a really good job, though. He challenged both Hedges and Harris.
ixat00 6 months ago 2
Nice objective moderation, asshole.
Geez.......
billygutter01 6 months ago
@billygutter01
if you watched the whole debate he does call out both of them
izzo31 5 months ago 2
The US, the United Nations, China, the European Union and every other organization on earth should pass a law against this jackass being a moderator ever again. A chimp jumping up and down on the center chair for 2 hours would have been less distracting and would have contributed something more intelligent to the discourse.
holzpusher 6 months ago
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We dropped an atomic bomb on the Japanese for 1 reason. To end the war. Killing 70,000 people in moment was far better than having 1 million japanese and americans killed over the next year it would have taken to end the war.
Skymarshal 6 months ago
@TheRoncaldwell I'm sure if we look hard enough we can find someone who claims to be a secular humanist who has committed murder. the point is that secular humanism in itself is opposed to murder and no one would commit murder because of secular humanism.
DanDare2050 6 months ago
When's the last time you heard of a secular humanist committing mass murder, or any murder, when you come to think of it?
TheRoncaldwell 6 months ago
Who is this douchebag moderator? He might as well be sitting next to Hedges.
frokenstein 6 months ago 11
@frokenstein One who doesn't know what "moderator" means.
patrick112590 6 months ago
@frokenstein
watch the whole debate terd bucket...he challenges both of them
izzo31 5 months ago
@izzo31 - He is obviously a biased moderator. Also, you need to watch your mouth, son.
frokenstein 5 months ago
@izzo31
He doesn't, dipshit
sonykroket 4 months ago
Is the moderator trying to suggest the invasion by early Arab Muslims of India, Northern Africa, Palestine, Portugal, Italy, many Greek islands in the Mediterranean, and the majority of the Middle East is as a result of the placement of Saddam Hussein as leader of Iraq? Or the result of any of the rest of his examples?
SlaughterMeister 6 months ago 3
@7:15
wow...are you going to do a joke about airline food as well?
Maybe he'll preface that by asking the audience to give it up for the troops...
kswindl 6 months ago
What a brainless dick the moderator is. We dropped a nuclear bomb but Muslims didn't- how stupid!
contracrostipunctus 6 months ago 11
‘Disproportionately well–off and disproportionately educated’. Correct. As someone living in Britain, I was one of those shocked at the actions of the suicide bombers on July the 7th. They were well–educated, ‘normal’–seeming homegrown terrorists.
Rascaduanok 6 months ago
Someone please kill this moderator.
He just won't shut up.
jubulalau 7 months ago
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Hedges was the one who wiped the floor with all your members of atheist cult
mosti1987 8 months ago
@mosti1987 lol nope
Drgamedood 7 months ago 3
@mosti1987 There is no atheist cult.
Strangerinasland 6 months ago 6
Ben Stiller? Anyone?
fuzzy711 8 months ago
Mod=stfu
keith101guitar 9 months ago 3
For the Moderator to make the point that no Muslim society has ever used a nuclear weapon, and our society(America) did, is one of the most obnoxious cases of moral equivalency I've ever heard, and completely presents an event in a historical vacuum. It disregards the entire mindset of both America and Japan in 1945, and a so-called "Moderator" making as ignorant a comment as he did shows his complete bias and self-righteous Liberal ignorance
bronxeel1 9 months ago 3
Spain translates more books per year into Spanish, than the entire Arab world has translated into Arabic for the past 900 years. Food for thought.
ArgoSG 9 months ago 5
@ArgoSG i ate your food. yummy
R2rGangstaFC 7 months ago
I'm glad the moderator brings up that the religion is a response to policies. Thats my one disagreement I have with Sam Harris. People blow themselves up for political reasons. Happy muslims don't blow themselves up. Politically disenfranchised ones do. Gah Sam cmon!
johnpotter26 11 months ago
@johnpotter26
Since when were the well fed, highly educated highjackers (Atta etc) on 9/11 disenfranchised? People blow themselves up because the fundamentals of their religion tells them it is ok to kill the infadels. That they will get 72 virgens etc etc. If it were the policies.... do you have any notion of what China does in Tibet? How many monks have blown up buildings? How many monks have beheaded innocent people (aid workers journalists etc) in the last decade?
jasper7750 11 months ago
@jasper7750 Maybe they felt they needed to do something for their disenfranchised compatriots? Much like North America did in World War 2? Not too far fetched. I'll concede that Islam is violent and legitimizes suicide bombing. But placing all the blame on Islam detracts responsibility from aggressive American Foreign policy (and similar policies in other nations). Is Noam Chomsky somewhere around here to help explain?
johnpotter26 11 months ago
@johnpotter26 If it's really just politics and not religion, then you're going to have to explain why there are no Tibetan suicide bombers killing innocent Chinese non-combatants. Most muslim suicide bombers come from mainstream muslim society. They are usually always born into relatively wealthy families, receive college education, and never experience abuse from western powers. It's islam. and the sooner we realize that, the better.
Drgamedood 11 months ago
@johnpotter26 who places all the blame in islam? people criticize catholics, zionists, muslims, not just Islam.
SeeProfileForDetails 10 months ago
I'm glad the moderator brings up that the religion is a response to policies. Thats my one disagreement I have with Sam Harris.
johnpotter26 11 months ago
... LOOK, you stupid morons.
I'm a rationalist and secularist *waves card*.
And I'm telling you guys, especially the two guys with top rated comments, that you are MORONS. Just because someone is not sitting in Sam Harris's chair does not make them wrong, or idiots. Just because they disagree about the finer nuances regarding the exact role that religion is playing in the world's ills does NOT make them "self-engrossed" or ranged 2v1 against Sam.
lefredvoncarstein 11 months ago
Really not liking this moderator.
Totenkopf6 11 months ago
both religion and atheism suck, yes ma'am
Pablations 11 months ago
@Pablations Totally agree.
susmita666 11 months ago
@susmita666
yeeyeeyeeyeyee, its all about jesus
Pablations 11 months ago
@Pablations you're an atheist about Zeus
GermyJer 11 months ago
@GermyJer
i dont get it??
I love jesus though :D
Pablations 11 months ago
the search for cultural identity exists because theres a freaking book telling them that is where they come from. immigrants who go to a new place open minded have no problem in finding worthy narratives to live. It is only when you are "stuck" to certain narratives, by indoctrination aka brainwashing, and those narratives can't be put into practice that identity generates crisis... so it's still belief that is the main problem
HolyFictionOrg 11 months ago
WORST MODERATOR EVER
nemirn 11 months ago 3
and THIS is where atheism behaves like a dogma, in the sense that it alienates and is intolerant of anyone who even alludes to a God. Instead of believing in freedom of thought (as you would expect from someone who believes in nothing) they want to convert everyone to atheism. Faith comes from within, and if someone can coexist peacefully while maintaining their faith, why provoke that? Why not teach equality, adaptability, tolerance and understanding instead?
susmita666 1 year ago
@susmita666 //and THIS is where atheism behaves like a dogma, in the sense that it alienates and is intolerant of anyone who even alludes to a God.//
I'm intolerant anyone who seriously believe in a flat earth, geocentric model of the solar system, the "stork bringing babies" theory, etc.
//Instead of believing in freedom of thought (as you would expect from someone who believes in nothing)//
Fail. Atheists don't believe "in nothing". Just not the supernatural.
ThatGuyWhoSucksBoobz 1 year ago
By nothing I meant "no God and/or superstitions". sorry for not making myself clear :p
susmita666 11 months ago
@susmita666 I'm more than willing to accept that a deity or the supernatural exist once someone provides valid evidence for it. Until then, we should assume they do not exist.
ThatGuyWhoSucksBoobz 11 months ago
@susmita666 "it alienates and is intolerant of anyone who even alludes to a God."
It's fair to be dismissive of someone who is makes claims to knowledge he does not have.
Examples:
"the unknown creative force driving our universe" "this God entity"
Both claims to knowledge you don't have.
You want respect? Stop lying.
Skindoggiedog 11 months ago
@Skindoggiedog i dont get it. u just proved my point. you said its fair to dismiss someone who claims to a knowledge they don't have. so what gives atheists the right to make such extreme claims? Isn't that double standards? we can turn the argument around any way we like, which is why I'm saying it's safe to believe in God, and if you don't, fair enough, there's no need to prove yourself coz you cant. And how can I "lie" when I already admitted that I DON'T KNOW anything for sure?
susmita666 11 months ago
@susmita666 "so what gives atheists the right to make such extreme claims"
They don't.
The people who say atheists make the claim that no god exists are theists who want an equally ridiculous opposite claim. Some atheists do claim that there is no god. Some atheists wear blue pants. You don't have to do either to be an atheist, though.
Just 'not holding a belief in a god' is enough to earn the title 'atheist'.
Skindoggiedog 11 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@susmita666 - "And how can I "lie" when I already admitted that I DON'T KNOW anything for sure? "
Because you make absolute statements about things you KNOW you have no knowledge of, which I already pointed out. These are constant, deliberate falsehoods. A.K.A Lies.
You say 'god exists'. Why say it if you don't know it? If you're not sure?
The real reason you find it acceptable is because so many people are doing it. That doesn't make it okay. It's still lying.
Skindoggiedog 11 months ago
@susmita666 - If there is a god, I AM INTERESTED IN INFORMATION REGARDING THIS.
What you present is worthless in this regard. You don't know anything about any deity. At all.
Why say publicly that you do?
Skindoggiedog 11 months ago
@susmita666 "they want to convert everyone to atheism"
No, they want you to stop making public claims about things you have absolutely no knowledge of. Hold any private belief you like, just don't come out in public saying things like you know something about a "creative force driving our universe" Talking about "this God entity", as if you have some information others don't.
YOU DON'T HAVE THAT INFORMATION. You have zero on this. Zip. Nada. Nothing.
Skindoggiedog 11 months ago
lol the moderator is the only rational person on this stage. sam harris is just a very charismatic, humorous and obviously well-read persoanality but he's also an atheist. the universe could NOT have been created out of nowhere. and its infutile arguing against God, because there's no proof of His/Her/It's/Their non-existence. God can be anything from a wave of energy to an army of mice, but who is Sam Harris to say there's nothing before the Big Bang? If religion is delusional, so is atheism!!
susmita666 1 year ago
@susmita666 your comment fails on so many levels
ThatGuyWhoSucksBoobz 1 year ago
@ThatGuyWhoSucksBoobz
Dude, your nickname is a fail. enough said. :P
If you have a point to make, then please, enlighten us :)
susmita666 1 year ago
@susmita666 the universe could NOT have been created out of nowhere, but god could?
HBCjunke 1 year ago
I'm simply saying that the unknown creative force driving our universe is who/what we call God. I don't know the nature of this God entity and that's not important either. The concept is too immense to even ponder over, and we don't have any evidence against it. until we have that, there's no loss in believing in God. You don't have to follow an organised religion in order to appreciate intelligent design, you could be totally against religion and still believe in God.
susmita666 1 year ago
@susmita666 //You don't have to follow an organised religion in order to appreciate intelligent design, you could be totally against religion and still believe in God.//
Unfortunately, there are billions of people that don't have your conception of faith. If there were, I'd have no problem with religion at all.
ThatGuyWhoSucksBoobz 1 year ago
This debate shows, that moderating a debate is apparently an impossible task for a narcicist. Instead of directing the debate and making sure that the debate does not lose its course, he is acting like a third party in this debate with the advantage that he can stop both at any time and talks as much as he wants.
nilsnelson23 1 year ago
when liberals like chris hedges don't have an argument, they always play the race card.
ThatGuyWhoSucksBoobz 1 year ago
iraq was not a secular society...lol
13stevejohnson 1 year ago 4
@13stevejohnson I would dispute that, that indeed it was secular because in terms of his leadership Saddam Hussein was the top of the heap. He didn't oppose the practice of religion because likely, it has its uses, similar to how the Russian Orthodox Church had its place in Soviet Russia. Now in Iraq Hussein may have simply replaced Mohammad with himself as the savior of his people. It became a cult of personality which has many similarities to religion. Christianity is the cult of Jesus.
ccheng21 1 year ago
it would be a great debate ew/o the moderator
eahazell 1 year ago
Is this a debate or a moderator Bogart session?
dnallred 1 year ago
You can tell someone is losing a debate when they have to trot out the accusation of racism. Harris does an excellent job of defending himself against this cheap shot in the next segment.
DXP6 1 year ago 38
Christians are subject to the same injustices as Muslims but they don't rip children apart with suicide bombers. If you listen to the suicide bombers they are in a state of religious exaltation. They really believe they are going to paradise to get their virgins and they get that from the Koran not from suffering a hard life. The educated are just as indoctrinated as the uneducated but they are the ones who should know better. the point is - they aren't.
TheFabdulla 1 year ago
Harris makes a mistake regarding how suicide bombers are more educated and wealthy. the point he misses is, the POLICIES target poor powerless people, and the wealthier educated people with too much time on their hands go crazy about the injustice of those policies. you can get angry at something you see, which is directed at someone else.
globallove 1 year ago
@globallove I somewhat agree.. but he did say it filters down to the foot soldiers. I think his point is that it isn't limited to the, as he says "the poorest of the poor, etc" That fear frustration and anger is probably the easiest to fan in the poor uneducated. When we see the face of religious right in this nation, we are shown the ball cap , gun welding redneck with God and Guns sticker on his pick-up. Behind them are the we are shown teh Bush's, Palin's Limbaugh's with power prestige etc.
eahazell 1 year ago
@globallove But you don't those rich elite in the trenches here, you don't see them in suicide planes.. that image of those pilots may (may mind you) just be an isolated incident we really don't know because something on that magnitude has not happened since 9/11. And we really don't know who is in all those exploding cars etc.
eahazell 1 year ago
If Osama Bin Laden had a hydrogen bomb, is there any doubt that he would use it on the Western world?
ryanruns 1 year ago
Since when does a moderator talk more than the debate participants?
ryanruns 1 year ago
im pretty sure since atheism is growing very rapidly that my grandkids. im only 19, that my grandkids will live in a a non religious world. yay
420simpson 1 year ago
Harris is difficult to listen to because he strains to link everything to the tension between faith and reason. He tries to blame Bush's policies on the faith he claims to have. Then the moderator asks if Bush was just using religion for political gain and Harris shifts the discussion to Muslims in England. If we should fixate on anything to gain a better understanding of the world it is corporations. Capitalism and faith in markets are the operative beliefs of today, not Christianity or Islam
1canondocre 1 year ago
From 7:21 on Hedges not only kicks Harris's ass, he wipes the floor with him
and leaves Harris in a puddle of infantile spittle.
Starwheel6 1 year ago 6
@Starwheel6 Can you please elaborate on how? Do you think Harris was better in this debate or Hedges???
By highlight a little part here, what you actually mean is this is one of the only times in the talk where Hedges actually makes something like a valid point. Harris is making them every minute.
MrDarkbloom 1 year ago
So Pakistan if taken over by the same kind of radicalism that has gripped the middle easy, would not use their nukes? Bullshit.
inademv 1 year ago
The moderator is irritating.
billygutter01 1 year ago
Why is the host interfering in the conversation while he knows time is limited!!? He acts like another debater.
astronivo20XX 1 year ago
"Iraq a secularist country"...Are you fucking kidding me.
crocop0514 1 year ago
This is a 2 vs 1 debate and Sam wipes the floor with both of them.
Whyisthat101 1 year ago 81
@Whyisthat101 same thing happened when sam harris debated reza aslan. the moderator wouldn't keep his fucking mouth shut and kept siding with aslan.
ThatGuyWhoSucksBoobz 1 year ago
@ThatGuyWhoSucksBoobz i suspect it's because he debates so well that the moderators feel sorry for the people he's debating. shitty moderation in my opinion.
saitamme 1 year ago
@Whyisthat101 ... LOOK, you stupid morons.
I'm a rationalist and secularist *waves card*.
And I'm telling you guys, especially the two guys with top rated comments, that you are MORONS. Just because someone is not sitting in Sam Harris's chair does not make them wrong, or idiots. Just because they disagree about the finer nuances regarding the exact role that religion is playing in the world's ills does NOT make them "self-engrossed" or ranged 2v1 against Sam.
lefredvoncarstein 11 months ago
@lefredvoncarstein
hah, perfect, i just thumbed down on both, then you have this comment, good to see im not the only one.
RipTheJackR 11 months ago
Ya, OK, that is why moderators should not be involved... what a stupid comment. What a banal point and a masochistic shout out to the left.
countertreason 1 year ago
Sam Harris may right on theology, but his politics is analogous to the American triumphalism of the right-wing. His support for the afghanistan war and the belligerent militarism against Iran undercuts his espousal of reason. The man is abominably ahistorical and cites hawkish figures like Alan Dershowitz in The End of Faith. I thought Sam won this contest the first time I saw it, but a closer reading finds him wanting . Final result: Sam wins theologically, but Hedges prevails politically.
PhilosopherSY 1 year ago
@PhilosopherSY theologically there is not much disagreement between them, politically hedges is much more thoughtful and nuanced but Im still not convinced that islam isn't fundamentally malign and dangerous.
mittROMNEY666 1 year ago
@mittROMNEY666
As an ex-Muslim I concur that Islam poses a grave menace to the whole superstructure on which civilisation stands. Islam is not a creed merely, but an imperial ideology of expansionism which seeks to colonise the West through fecundity. Agreed, but Harris forcibly strikes me as an espouser of a militarism with an atheist tinge. He seldom questions the corporate driven interests of war unlike Hedges. His sophistication deserts him and out comes the knuckledragging neanderthal.
PhilosopherSY 1 year ago
I’ll give Harris credit: at least he dispels the myth that religious belief goes up when education goes down, and vice-versa—a myth commonly held by most atheists. The fact that the 9/11 hijackers were college-educated (most with PHDs) proves that religious belief—especially militant fundamentalist belief—is not a by-product of ignorance and poverty, and that education is not a panacea for religious or supernatural belief.
r3v3ng3ofthef4113n 1 year ago
Robert Scheer is a terrific writer, but whoever booked him to moderate a debate needs to find another job. He seems to think the job of a moderator is to be some sort of talk-show host.
salro99 1 year ago
Can Harris never get stuck with a debator that isn't biased against him?
MrSalamander7 1 year ago 3
Comment removed
ClintSevilla 1 year ago
Harris > Hitchens
ClintSevilla 1 year ago 4
What would Harris say about the Obama regime's own violent, imperial policies? Obama isn't a religious fanatic like Bush.
AndrewMann552 1 year ago
@AndrewMann552 If Obama isn't a fanatic then he'll pass laws to kill all homosexuals. He is DEFINITELY a fanatic.
Whyisthat101 1 year ago
The moderator comments that "We" dropped the atomic bomb. Not Muslims. Who is We? I didn't drop the bomb and I'm part of the United States. The Us/Them talk needs to stop. Humans on the North American continent tend to believe one thing or another. Humans in the Middle East believe other things still. Patriotism poisons the moral discussion. Saying America in the forties is the same America as exists today, including the morality and common races, is wrong.
ashleylovesdaddy 1 year ago 3
@ashleylovesdaddy "Patriotism poisons the moral discussion..." Yes, it does
Patriotism, nationalism, religion, ALL group loyalty is dangerous and suspect. Leaders use patriotism to whip up public support for certain policies (esp. war). The Christian right got "in God we trust" on all the money and added "under God" to the "one nation" in the pledge of allegiance, within the 20th century. Hedges is right about that; sneakily equating patriotism with christianity for their own purposes
queenastilon 1 year ago
"Racism"??? Hedges is pathetic.
ClumsyRoot 1 year ago 6
So..... I enter a highschool across country; identity crisis at an impressionable age! Gonna join a neo-nazi group and f**k s**t up! Can't blame me, I was out of my element and misguided. Geez....
Forkboy28 1 year ago
This moderator is standing on his own statement and not entailing to be a moderator. While Chris Hedges sits to listen.
ET45349D 1 year ago
Moderator: you defended the invasion of Iraq
Sam: No, actually that's not true...
Moderator: well...good
jackass, get your facts straight first >_>
handofnergal 1 year ago
@handofnergal
He offered to go over the passages.
I didn't hear Sam encourage him to do that after he suggested it.
Jackass, listen to the video first >_>
mutefx 1 year ago
The moderator is so self-engrossed.
tmhypheng 2 years ago 47
@tmhypheng ... LOOK, you stupid morons.
I'm a rationalist and secularist *waves card*.
And I'm telling you guys, especially the two guys with top rated comments, that you are MORONS. Just because someone is not sitting in Sam Harris's chair does not make them wrong, or idiots. Just because they disagree about the finer nuances regarding the exact role that religion is playing in the world's ills does NOT make them "self-engrossed" or ranged 2v1 against Sam.
lefredvoncarstein 11 months ago
@tmhypheng Totally.
joshin17 10 months ago
7:20 first interesting points I've heard from Hedges...
TheAstral1 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
360atGOD 2 years ago
Zenuism____Zenuism____Zenuism____Zenuism____Zenuism____Zenuism____Zenuism____Zenuism____Zenuism____Zenuism____Zenuism____Zenuism____Zenuism____Zenuism____Zenuism____Zenuism____Zenuism____Zenuism____Zenuism____Zenuism____Zenuism____
HAIL LORD XENU!
Boy192 1 year ago 5
@Boy192
HAIL!!!
handofnergal 1 year ago
@com869 what sort of retort is that?...... Of course i have my mind made up....only a fucking idiot (which you definately qualify) would argue for a point the dont agree with.
My mind is obviously open enough to consider discourse, (or i wouldn't be here typing). You're a nullity.
Your unworthy of the time already spent.
Put your head back up your butt-hole.....spare me your cretinous crap.
gallus1 2 years ago
@com869 is that it...the best you could think of?
spineless wonder
gallus1 2 years ago
@com869 You're right, i do believe that the Wests' idea of freedom is best......only a liberal multi-culti dumb-nut thinks his own preference should be denied, regardless of the consequences. When the religious tell me i should die because i dont believe their ideology, you bet your life i'll fight back. When they come to my locale and demand that i become one of them or face the consequences...too fucking right i hit back. You're why they are so successful....they know you'll capitulate
gallus1 2 years ago 2
@com869 I'M DONE WITH YOU, YOU SCUMBAG....GET YOURSELF BACK TO YOUR HELL-HOLE
gallus1 2 years ago
Only 100,000 Kurds......according to the UN 2 1\2 million died while under Sadam's regime....thats 250 every week of every year the bastard was in power. The million that have died since have been killed by the warring religious sects...shiite\sunni......you piece of shit
gallus1 2 years ago 2
@gallus1
Who gave Saddam his seat in Iraq?
360atGOD 2 years ago
@360atGOD And what about it?....is that supposed to be the ultimate in come-backs? He was dealt to when he went too far.
gallus1 2 years ago
@gallus1
You must mean when he refused to cooperate with our orders to do with his country with what we wanted him to?
Saddam was appointed to office for serving the needs of the cia, by taking out the previous dictator. He was a sharp shooter who was injured, and for his duties we gifted the state of Iraq to him.
360atGOD 2 years ago
@360atGOD ...indeed, and again when he got too smart he was dealt to. The US also took advantage of both sides during WWII prior to their involvement....selling arms to both sides. This, in case you dont realize, is the world we live in. And of course, if someone is handed power then he shouldn't bite the hand that fed him...saddam did......thus paid for it. Iraqi's died at the rate of 250 a week, every week of Saddams 25 year tenure. The US's guilt was allowing him to stay so long
gallus1 2 years ago
@gallus1
So your telling me now that he is out of power all is well? If Iraqies were worse off when Saddam was in office, why do we currently have over 100,000 mercenaries on the ground now? (Not amry) So you are telling me that all the DEPLETED URANIUM that we used in our weapons during desert storm and and currently using, isn't going to affect the populus today? We are using weapons of mass destruction on the middle east as i type, even though the UN has outlawed it.
360atGOD 2 years ago
Saddam had a nuke reactor courtesy of France and the means to launch courtesy of UK firm had they not been discovered in transit. He admitted his big mistake was that he didn't wait until he was fully nuked up before going into Kuwait. Maybe you're right, perhaps the US shoulda left him where he was....dumb-nuts. But dont worry, looks like we'll get to see how it would have turned out via Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. We'll all be happier with Mamoud at the helm.The killing in iraq is via muslim v muslim
gallus1 2 years ago
@com869 your arrogance is surpassed by your ignorance....tell a Kurd (or a shiite) that they prefer being slaughtered by sadam, to his face!...go on you filthy theist ....Rationalize your evil god in order to justify doing nothing. Like France, like the UN...filthy evil bastard
gallus1 2 years ago 2
@com869 i dont make excuses, i dont need to. 7 jewish males in france murdered (butchered) by 'youths'....the spineless media dont mention the coincidence that these 'youths' all happened to be muslims. The pope tells us that AIDS is bad, really bad, but naturally and reasonably not as bad as condoms. But heres a good reason for being in Iraq....over 100,000 Kurds slaughtered, many thousands by chemicals,men women and children. Excuses bastards like you make dont matter...scumbag
gallus1 2 years ago
PS..I never suggested any way of life so ur claim is fatuous, u are bereft of any clue as to what kind of world u live in, and are easy meat for the intolerant. Its common knowledge that americans in general know fuck all about anything outside their border, however, your cleverest are indeed clever, and despite your personal arrogant ignorance, they understand the deal and will save u from urself. Now my venereal friend...fuck off.Spare me any more of ur excretions. Get ye behind me, be gone!
gallus1 2 years ago
U epitomise the reason i can relax.The west has niether the spine, will or nous to combat a fifth column thats eating it away. The only thing u said anywhere close was that i hate religion....too fucking right i do and thats my strength.I can grow that long beard and pretend, spineless pricks like you have no where to go but obey or die. Like europe, it wont be long before the Gays are being murdered ( jews already are), feminists being stoned, and ignorant pricks like u will still make excuses
gallus1 2 years ago
The Islamists have already Sharia in europe, cliterectomy clinics on our street corners, they tell us we're scum while taking refuge from their own despots. They openly declare their global intent with violence a prerequisite. They attack young western girls in paris, manchester, Copenhagen and Madrid for not wearing headscarves (it causes muslim men offence). They come to your country and tell you to ur face you are filth.....and you apologise. Yeh, its all our fault...we deserve whats coming
gallus1 2 years ago
95% of the killing in Iraq is shiite v sunni ... pure coincidence? Islams current fight against the Infidels is but a mere interlude in its never ending war on itself. If Islam in particular was not claiming universal durisdiction over the planet then the US and any other hegemon with the power wouldn't need to be there.Churchill,100 years ago and jefferson 100 years prior understood the Islamic problem and nothing has changed except our willingness to blame ourselves.
gallus1 2 years ago
I cant take you seriously now. I suggest you take a look at the UN's list of conflicts since 1990........almost entirely religious esp in africa. Its an indictment that in sudan alone over 2 million christians have been slaughtered yet few even know there's a problem. From europe to the Balkans to the Caucasus to africa to indonesia to thailand...and many in between...all religious. And its this stultifying notion that if we pretend it doesn't exist its not happening. i'm done
gallus1 2 years ago
No..... its very much harder to rationalize murder outside religiom. Of course it'll occur but as i stated earlier, anyone who proposed the anti-condom stance as the RC church does would be strung up as an insidious monster...... dressed in religion its actually given virtue. Besides, how many 15 year olds would blow up a cafe for Naziism, communism, or capitalism....you might find some somewhere but if you fail to see the difference then ur too far up ur own arse....just as Hedges is.
gallus1 2 years ago
The claim to emotion about muslim mothers not grieving is not as clear cut as he suggests...and he knows its not. There ARE Muslim mothers who teach their children to become martyrs. Again.....take the religious enticement away and these people are harder to find. Humanity wont suddenly live in a peaceful world but the incompatable claims of religion ensure progress is impossible. PS...Iran's proxy military has invaded other countries,and watch where they go when they have the threat of nukes.
gallus1 2 years ago
No one is suggesting that we'd live happily ever after if religion disappeared. But ridding the world of the religious virus would rid us the most heinous vehicle of violence. Evil bastards will do evil and they cannot hide it, but frame it in religion and it can be seen as a virtue. The Pope tells 1.2 billion RC's that AIDS is bad but not as bad as condoms...this is evil and only the claims' religious framework gives the idea credence. Had any Govt made the same claim they'd be strung up!
gallus1 2 years ago
yeah and I guess the USA uses chemical weapons on other ethnic groups or have national police that rape women so that we make can make a loophole in a medeival law about not being able to kill virgins
if you dont like the USA you can kiss my keester you butt-fucking piece of shit!!!
handofnergal 2 years ago
I agree, I just wanna get rid of religion because idiots like Pat Robertson and the entire Christian right, I wish they would vanish overnight, I really fucking do
and these pathetic peaces of shit overseas bowing in front of a fucking rock too, the ones flying planes into our fucking buildings while claiming to be peaceful
handofnergal 2 years ago
OMG, do me a favor chicken Little, read a fucking book, smoke a fucking blunt, and chill the fuck out.
The US is not the country that regularly talks about killing Jews like Iran does, and the USSR has supplied more weapons to the third world than probably all of NATO combined
what's the most common assault rifle in the world? Kalashnikov
handofnergal 2 years ago
ummmm, I thought they made their own with their own nuclear program, the same way that India and China and everyone else did
we really dont just give away that kind of information, LOL
what are your sources? Im curious ^^
handofnergal 2 years ago
the moderator is such a dick, shouldnt he be, like, impartial or something?
fucking old tool, says false things about Sam right to his face and then takes a side obviously against his position
FIRE him
handofnergal 2 years ago
I like Hedges to a degree but he is still avoiding the role religion plays in things such as suicide bombings. Yes, of course there are other, powerful factors, but take away the essential ingredient of honoring martyrdom, and you don't have suicide bombers. He (wrongly) states the Tamil Tigers invented suicide bombing. But the Tamil Tigers are based on a cult of personality, devout followers of Velupillai Prabhakaran. Their against religion officially, but cults of personality replace religion
BillKiernan 2 years ago
why would mothers grieve if their sons are going to a better place? If they truly believe in their religion, why would they grieve. People are ridiculous, because deep down they don't really believe, which is why they get so offended.
bridgettedunn 2 years ago
I think Sam Harris is God.
granmastershake 2 years ago 10
@granmastershake Yeah, I think I'm no longer an atheist :D
justatallguy 1 year ago
@granmastershake please lets make him president
eahazell 1 year ago
very biased comment forum
luckyclover012 2 years ago 3
I hate when the moderator gives his opinion. I don't give a shit what he thinks. He's there to do a job. Do it and shut up.
His silly little point about the USA dropping nukes despite being highly reasonable, contributes nothing but white noise to the discussion. The population of the USA is not reasonable. Try getting a secular Scandinavian country to drop nukes. That'll prove a quite a challenge, I'm sure.
magnusjsolberg 2 years ago 3
everyone who ive ever seen debate harris speaks around what he says. they never defeat any of his premises or arguments but talk about something different in their rebuttals. hedges appears to be debating another topic altogether "god is everything, god is a verb..." what nonsense.
andyman8300 2 years ago 7
Haha. Yeah, god is a verb, that was one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. Harris is a fantastic speaker and is one of the best at actually being logical in debates. I've never seen an equal opponent to him.
cjdlguy77 2 years ago 4
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Mr. Harris, UNTIL PROVEN OTHER WISE -SCIENCE- SAYS THAT 9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB..........AND I CAN'T UNDERSTAND WHO GIVE YOU THE RIGHT TO SET UP THERE AND TALK ABOUT NO GOD WHEN YOU ARE DOING NOTHING MORE THEN SHOWING YOU ZEALOTS ZIONIST UPBRING AND POLITICAL VIEWS.
suskky 2 years ago
harris is the ONLY american i have heard in forty eight years that actually talks sense THIS IS THE MAN YOU SHOULD HAVE FOR PRESIDENT ...REALLY he isnt trying to say something he IS saying something
ps get rid of that stupid palin woman :)
ArtistEnrique 2 years ago 31
This has been flagged as spam show
we will try ^^
handofnergal 2 years ago
@ArtistEnrique the only person? ever heard of christopher hitchens, lawrence krauss, richard dawkins, dan dennet, jerry coyne and so on. watch "Lawrence Krauss A Universe From Nothing"
HappyRogueStatus 1 year ago
When the moderator said no muslim ever used a nuclear weapon, but we did; all I can say is that's because they haven't developed them yet. 10 mins. after they master that technology they're going to use it, i guarantee you that.
koripley 2 years ago 4
I think Scheer is one of our great minds and I enjoyed his contribution to this discussion.
hdtwoodsman 2 years ago
Typical Christian apologist argument.. " It's not the religion its their position in life..." Yeah but its religion that gives them the basis for believing such horrible actions are justified. Sam Harris is totally right! How dare that intellectual retard Hedges accuse Harris of racism too!?!? And the moderator clearly doesn't have a fuck sense clue what he's talking about! Iraq was secular under Saddam!?! No they didn't going around blowing each other up then cuz Saddam would beat the to it!
pomeroy82 2 years ago 6
The moderator is a douche. He says "For the people in the audience applauding. No Muslim has ever used a nuclear weapon. Our government has."
Hmmm, maybe that's because they don't possess the technology yet. Otherwise I'm sure they would use the bomb. Yes I'm aware of Pakistan, and I haven't exhaled just yet.
baillou2 2 years ago 21
he should really leave the debating to the debaters
Joelbert00 2 years ago 8
@baillou2
America and Britain are the most savage forces in world history; these are not muslim nations. Look to your own before you make emotional accusations against a people who have been repeatedly trampled on across modern history. The major bomb-holders are largely white, Judeo-Christian throwbacks. This cannot be denied: we are the blood-hungriest.
5147848amp 1 year ago
@baillou2
My thoughts exactly. "They haven't used nuclear weapons yet."
That's simply because they've never had them, thankfully. You're an idiot if you think the people who are willing to fly airplanes into buildings, killing themselves and as many other people as possible, wouldn't use a WMD if they had any.
AndrewDewittBaker 1 year ago
@baillou2 Actually that was a very good point. It tells you religion isn't to blame, people with power are. In fact, numerous polls have shown that most of the world believe the United States are the biggest threat to world peace.
brucejuice52 1 year ago
@brucejuice52 Of course people with power are to blame. Generally speaking the powerless, disenfranchised of the world haven't done much (until they acquire power that is). Thanks Captain Obvious!
All I'm saying is that of the most powerful people/nations/organizations in the world it's the fanatically religious ones that scare me, USA included.
baillou2 1 year ago
@baillou2 America's foreign policy is not guided by religon. Sam Harris says this, but he has little knowledge of world politics, that's why he avoids debating it. It surely has some ideological foundations, but it isn't Christianity. And US' decision to drop the bomb on Japan was not religiously motivated. It was motivated strictly by power-politics. Nationalism and power-politics is the cause for most suffering in the 20th century, not religion.
brucejuice52 1 year ago
@brucejuice52 and the 21st century, mind you.
brucejuice52 1 year ago
@brucejuice52 Sam Harris probably does overstate the role of religion in socio-political issues, but his central argument is simply that we should have the right to criticize religious claims and take a stand against dogmatic nonsense. At this stage it is still considered offensive and taboo.
baillou2 1 year ago
@baillou2 Well that's sensible.
brucejuice52 1 year ago
The religions don't necessarily cause the problems....however, social problems tend to be made worse, even intractable, by the addition of religious dogma.
kshackleton 2 years ago
Even if they don't believe it, religion gives many people a set of tools through which they can do horroble things they wouldn't have otherwise done.
cowboycoco 2 years ago
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This audience is so fucking annoying! They clap at everything! Typical liberal self-congradulatory pompousness.
boopiie 2 years ago
I can't believe Hedges tried to play the race card. Ugh.
ClumsyRoot 2 years ago 4
First, there is no genetic marker for "race", there is simply no such thing. Second, if one assumes, incorrectly, that there is a race, the people of the Middle East are considered Caucasiods, just like "white" Americans. Third, and finally, it is not an issue of race, since race is simply a false human construct, but more importantly, it is the actions of the religious zealots that one should hate, not their skin color. I despise Islam, as I do Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, etc--not people.
heathdwatts 2 years ago 4
You are exactly right. Which makes Hedges attempt all the more insidious.
ClumsyRoot 2 years ago 3